How does gravity works in FE?

I’ve explained why it’s a downward from air to Earth direction, which is having more mass than air has.

Mass is a scalar quantity, it has no direction.

I’ve explained why it’s a downward from air to Earth direction, which is having more mass than air has.

No, you haven't.
You haven't provided any explanation for why having more mass (by which I assume you mean being denser) should lead to that.
That is just your assertion.

It doesn't explain why it should cause movement at all, why in any particular direction, why at a particular rate, why that rate varies over Earth, how that causes a pressure gradient and why that pressure gradient doesn't push us up.

Why would we possibly need a force to hold us down to the Earths surface when it’s designed this way with no need for any sort of external force?

Now try saying that honestly.
Why should we need a force to cause objects to accelerate as all other observations show when you just have magic making things magically happen.

All other examples require a force, why should this be different?

When you create life of all types, what would your Earth be designed as?
It holds life on the surface, with food to eat, air above to breathe, and a livable environment all around the life to exist and create life of their own species, etc.

Well to start with, one in which you do not need to eat, drink and breathe to live.
One which doesn't have cancer and disease and natural disasters.

There is no basis to conclude Earth was created.
And if it was, it clearly wasn't by a good designer that gave a damn about us.

So you thinking it would better if it was made in a particular way doesn't mean it actually is that way.

A good loving designer would make the world such that people would never starve to death, yet that is what we see.

That’s stupid, isn’t it?

If your god designed this world, it is stupid or evil.

That doesn't make reality stupid, nor does it make people accepting reality stupid.
But it does make people like you stupid, appealing to a designer as if it would make things better for us, when that clearly is not the case.

So still no explanation. Just pathetic deflection.

Why do you think it’s not a good design?

What would be a better design to you?

Some think, as I once did, why is there disease and failing health and death?

Why didn’t He make us perfect and never get old or ever die?

Why does evil exist? Pain and famine and so on, why allow for these horrible things?

Because nobody would know what is good, without evil existing.

When your parents pass away, or your child dies so young, we feel how much we loved them, by losing them on Earth.

Perfection has no emotions, no love of others, no sadness of losing loved ones. We would be like robots, without any feelings or emotions.

God created us to make our own decisions, learn from making bad decisions, and gain wisdom.

He created our eternal souls, and our temporary life on Earth, to see how each of us acts in free will and thoughts.

Why would He create an Earth that holds us in everlasting fear and uncertainty?

Create endless planets and endless life all over an endless universe, would make us insignificant and not important or loved as special to our Creator.

If your parents had thousands of other children besides you, they’d barely have time to see you, among so many other siblings.

Not a good thing.

Why do you think it’s not a good design?

Because a loving god wouldn't want people suffering.

Because nobody would know what is good, without evil existing.

This is the classic example of someone trapped in an abusive relationship.

Parents don't torture their children so they know what good is.
Only an abusive parent would do such a thing to make the child think when they are not being tortured it is good.

Now again, stop with all the religious crap, and try defending your magic.

Quote from: turbonium2 on February 17, 2025, 12:47:08 AM

Why do you think it’s not a good design?

Because a loving god wouldn't want people suffering.

Quote from: turbonium2 on February 17, 2025, 12:47:08 AM

Because nobody would know what is good, without evil existing.

This is the classic example of someone trapped in an abusive relationship.

Parents don't torture their children so they know what good is.
Only an abusive parent would do such a thing to make the child think when they are not being tortured it is good.

Now again, stop with all the religious crap, and try defending your magic.

This is where Turbonium.is right, and you are the one in the wrong.

Philosophy isnt your strong suit, but it is Turbonium's strong suit.

You could learn a lot from Turbonium in this department if you choose to.

The truth is, nobody would know about good, without evil existing, just as Turbonium says.

It is the bad days in life that help us appreciate the good days even more.

Have you ever thought of that or is that way of thinking beneath your superiority complex?

People used to hit their children to help them learn not to do a particular action again. In days gone by it was referred to as parental discipline, but I see you are from the school of soft cock libertarians who see that as child abuse.

Why do you think it’s not a good design?

What would be a better design to you?

Some think, as I once did, why is there disease and failing health and death?

Why didn’t He make us perfect and never get old or ever die?

Why does evil exist? Pain and famine and so on, why allow for these horrible things?

Because nobody would know what is good, without evil existing.

When your parents pass away, or your child dies so young, we feel how much we loved them, by losing them on Earth.

Perfection has no emotions, no love of others, no sadness of losing loved ones. We would be like robots, without any feelings or emotions.

God created us to make our own decisions, learn from making bad decisions, and gain wisdom.

He created our eternal souls, and our temporary life on Earth, to see how each of us acts in free will and thoughts.

Why would He create an Earth that holds us in everlasting fear and uncertainty?

Create endless planets and endless life all over an endless universe, would make us insignificant and not important or loved as special to our Creator.

If your parents had thousands of other children besides you, they’d barely have time to see you, among so many other siblings.

Not a good thing.

There's no harm in believing in God, despite what the all-knowing Jackblack has to say on the matter.

If the God you believe in, created one person and that person was you, you would get all of God's attention, yes? What about if you were one of two people created by God? Do you think God would be there for you any less or love you any less?

Yes, God is like one of your parents, but the difference is God is the parent of EVERYTHING. It doesn't matter if there are a hundred other people created by God, or another nine billion people created by God. God gives each and every person, complete and undivided attention.

Likewise, it doesn't matter if there are a hundred or a hundred billion other worlds beyond the confines of Earth. Everything is God's one creation at all times and every moment.

You don't need to know how God can be personal or exclusive to you, just that God is, and you are no less important than anybody else or anything else, in the eyes of God.

If you can fully embrace this idea, you will be free from the confines of flat earth, free to leave flat earth behind, and free to continue on your way, learning and growing.

Quote from: Username on December 15, 2024, 10:35:52 PM

Gravity tis inertia. That is all.

Why if I slowly lift a ball up, then after establishing upward momentum the ball accelerates straight down as soon as it’s released?

Why with one hand can I hold a 50 pound weight close to my body. But  as soon as I try to push the weight straight out one handed to arm’s length, my arm gives out and the weight falls to my side?  What “inertia” is my arm fighting taking a stationary weight and trying to push it straight out arm’s length to only have the arm pulled down. 

Because you are taking a non-inertial frame of reference as an inertial one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on December 21, 2024, 07:32:49 PM

Quote from: Username on December 15, 2024, 10:35:52 PM

Gravity tis inertia. That is all.

Why if I slowly lift a ball up, then after establishing upward momentum the ball accelerates straight down as soon as it’s released?

Why with one hand can I hold a 50 pound weight close to my body. But  as soon as I try to push the weight straight out one handed to arm’s length, my arm gives out and the weight falls to my side?  What “inertia” is my arm fighting taking a stationary weight and trying to push it straight out arm’s length to only have the arm pulled down. 

Because you are taking a non-inertial frame of reference as an inertial one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle

The question is what force is my body fighting to lift the 50 lbs to hold it close to my chest and extending my arm causes my arm to act like a lever increasing that force on my arm to the point my arm cannot provide enough strength and strain, so my arm fails and falls with the weight.  What force is acting on my arm and the weight. 

This is where Turbonium.is right, and you are the one in the wrong.

No, it isn't.
This is where religious REers also discard reason, and why some people refer to FEism as a religion, because adherents display the same kind of behaviour.
They reject evidence which shows they are wrong, they spout all sorts of nonsense with no evidence to support it, they make excuses for why things don't work, and so on.
The only real difference is they have typically defined their god in such a way to make it almost impossible to disprove. But FEers like pretending that as well.

The truth is, nobody would know about good, without evil existing, just as Turbonium says.

Without evil existing, good would be the norm.
That isn't a bad thing.
But there would still be a distinction between neutral and good.

e.g. consider a building burning down.
Being evil might involve starting that fire, or intentionally trapping people inside.
Running in to save people inside and helping to put out the fire would be good.
Not risking your life and waiting outside would be neutral.

You don't need evil to appreciate good.

People used to hit their children to help them learn not to do a particular action again. In days gone by it was referred to as parental discipline, but I see you are from the school of soft cock libertarians who see that as child abuse.

Notice how that is fundamentally different to what is being discussed here.
That is discipline.
Hitting a child to indicate they have done something wrong.

What you are suggesting is more akin to just beating them so they can appreciate when you aren't beating them.
Quite different.

No loving being would intentionally make someone suffer just so they can appreciate what it is like when they aren't suffering.
Abusive people do that.

There's no harm in believing in God, despite what the all-knowing Jackblack has to say on the matter.

If it was just believing in a god, with no strings attached, then sure.

But it typically never is.

Look at what he is doing, appealing to this god to reject reality, and all the harm that comes with that.
And that isn't just unique to FEers. It also pops up a lot with evolution being rejected, climate change being rejected and so on.

And look at all the people using god as an excuse to commit acts of terror, or to kill homosexuals, or otherwise deny people rights.

God gives each and every person, complete and undivided attention.

Which is impossible for a single being.
By the very fact it is across multiple beings, it cannot be undivided.

And this is what I mean from above.
Just like FEers, you are now spouting pure nonsense, because you need to to prop up your fantasy.

Quote from: Username on March 08, 2025, 02:31:28 PM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on December 21, 2024, 07:32:49 PM

Quote from: Username on December 15, 2024, 10:35:52 PM

Gravity tis inertia. That is all.

Why if I slowly lift a ball up, then after establishing upward momentum the ball accelerates straight down as soon as it’s released?

Why with one hand can I hold a 50 pound weight close to my body. But  as soon as I try to push the weight straight out one handed to arm’s length, my arm gives out and the weight falls to my side?  What “inertia” is my arm fighting taking a stationary weight and trying to push it straight out arm’s length to only have the arm pulled down. 

Because you are taking a non-inertial frame of reference as an inertial one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle

The question is what force is my body fighting to lift the 50 lbs to hold it close to my chest and extending my arm causes my arm to act like a lever increasing that force on my arm to the point my arm cannot provide enough strength and strain, so my arm fails and falls with the weight.  What force is acting on my arm and the weight. 

It seems to be a force much like when you are on a merry-go-round the pull outward feels like a force.

So in reality, you are on a non-euclidean "merry-go-round" of sorts causing that pull downwards when you lift up the weight.

Consider being in an elevator. You know when it starts accelerating and you feel that pull down? Now imagine the elevator never stopped accelerating at a constant speed of 9.81m/s/s. You would have an impossible time trying to distinguish whether you were in an elevator accelerating upwards or if some invisible force was pulling you downwards at g.

This is (part of) the basis of relativity. There is no way to distinguish between gravity and an inertial force like the elevator so as far as science is concerned they are the same thing (Yes Jack, I am glossing over details here for clarity's sake). How does this make sense if you believe the earth is round and not accelerating upwards like an elevator? Someone who is a fan of Einstein would say it is because space is "curved" and not as it appears and that you are actually accelerating due to this curvature even though you appear still - much like you appear still to yourself in the elevator.

In short you are experiencing your bodies interaction with this non-inertial frame of reference.


My relativistic model makes use of this very directly. Other earlier more out of fashion models use it as well such as the universal accelerator model where the Earth is very literally accelerating upwards at g creating that pull downwards. You can find it in hollow earth theories too where the earth is rotating and people are being pulled outwards causing gravity iirc.

Does that all follow?

It makes perfect sense.

Why can insects and birds fly up into air, while most life cannot?

The only reason a helium filled balloon rises up in air, is that it is less dense than the air is.

A submarine rises up in water when air is put in its ballast tanks, making the sun less dense than water.

Everything is determined by relative density of objects in air or water.   

Buoyancy means less density of objects than the density of air and water.

More density is why objects fall from air and sink in water.

That’s how God created the Earth, above Earth, and within the waters of Earth.

Heavy objects have more potential energy than light objects, so when a light object is dropped, there is less kinetic energy. This is why a piece of paper dropped on your foot would hurt less than a bowling ball. This can also be applied to density and buoyancy. When gravity pulls down on an object, this potential energy is converted to kinetic energy. If the object displaces less fluid (air in this case) than its weight, it will float or rise. If it displaces more fluid than its weight, it will sink. That is to say, if a dense object is placed in fluid, it will sink DUE TO GRAVITY.

There’s no relationship to both mediums of air and water to your made up force called ‘gravity’, you need another made up force called ‘buoyancy’ to account for it.

They had to make up two ‘forces’ for this. Amazing indeed that the dividing point of which force acts out, is the relative density of objects in each medium!

That’s a fairy tale story, and never works at all in the real world.


It’s pointless and endless and always changes, back and forth and all around.

Balloons filled with air or helium rise up in air, because they are less dense than the surrounding medium of air.

Your made up force, you claim will pull all things down from air to the Earths surface, would never let a balloon filled with air or helium rise up from the surface, no matter what their mass or density is!

Nor would your made up force let objects float on water or rise up in water either, mass and density wouldn’t mean anything at all to your force!

A magnet shows how a real force acts. Every actual force shows how they really act and behave.

There’s no relationship to both

Shrugs..

WATCH: Wedding party falls into lake when dock collapses

Then why did about 22 people walk out on this dock in the context of this documented collapse.  Stand and pose.  Only to have the dock finally give out from their weight.  What caused the dock and the people to go from no downward movement, to being accelerated downward, overcoming the resistance of atmosphere.  To overcome the structure and the load bearing properties of that dock. 


You understand how a weight sled works for the competition.  I guess not if you don’t get weight is a real down force.

 is a very clever mechanical device that has the ability to transfer weight from the wheels at the back to the pan at the front. During a pull, the sledge sits on the starting line as a rolling weight, but gradually transforms into a dead-weight, the further down the track it goes.

https://tractorpulling.co.uk/pulling-sledge

During the pull.  The weight box is moved forward to the pan off the wheels.  If weight isn’t a real downforce, why does drag against the ground increase as the weight is transferred off the wheels to the pan to increase friction with the ground.  During the pull, the weight simply moves forward until enough friction is created by increasing the downforce on the pan in contact with the ground.  This alone is usually enough to stop the pulling tractor.  No change in density during the pull.  No change in height for this model of sled during the pull.  No change in surface area of the rig during the pull.  Just the downward force over the pan is increased by moving the weight box ever closer to the pan.


From the poster Stash.  Gravity is a force that can be measured and is used in accelerometers to determine down.

Gravity is the reason comets pivot about the sun when the make there turns around the sun. 

They had to make up two ‘forces’ for this.

No.  Gravity is what gives weight to objects of mass.



Gravity is what my arm and strength strains against to lift the 50 lbs weight above my head. 

Gravity is a real force acting on my arm as a lever multiplying the strain at my shoulder where I can’t raise the same 50 lbs straight out arms length.

Gravity is the reason I can’t push a car in neutral up hill where I can push the same car in neutral all day  long over a garage floor.

Gravity is the reason cars have to exert my force by downshifting and burning more fuel as attested to by RPMs and fuel mileage to get up steep hills.

Gravity is the reason you have to strain and exert more force to peddle a bicycle up hill.

Gravity is the reason falling water can drive a water wheel overcoming the friction of grindstones to turn a mill. 

There’s no relationship to both mediums of air and water to your made up force called ‘gravity’, you need another made up force called ‘buoyancy’ to account for it.

They had to make up two ‘forces’ for this. Amazing indeed that the dividing point of which force acts out, is the relative density of objects in each medium!

That’s a fairy tale story, and never works at all in the real world.


It’s pointless and endless and always changes, back and forth and all around.

Balloons filled with air or helium rise up in air, because they are less dense than the surrounding medium of air.

Your made up force, you claim will pull all things down from air to the Earths surface, would never let a balloon filled with air or helium rise up from the surface, no matter what their mass or density is!

Nor would your made up force let objects float on water or rise up in water either, mass and density wouldn’t mean anything at all to your force!

A magnet shows how a real force acts. Every actual force shows how they really act and behave.

Well you see, this is an experiment that can be easily tested outside of gravitational fields. Take a sealed box of air and place a helium balloon inside of it. You will see that it won't travel in this arbitrary direction we call "up", it will stay in the center due to the higher surrounding air pressure around it. On Earth, with gravity, this balloon would travel away from the center of the earth and up. It's because for the reasons I explained in my previous post, air is more dense than helium, so the air is pulled down by gravity more than the helium, making the balloon effectively move up.

Your made up force, you claim will pull all things down from air to the Earths surface, would never let a balloon filled with air or helium rise up from the surface, no matter what their mass or density is!

And yet.  A bottle of breathing air and helium used in diving doesn’t separate out by density.


So?  What causes the air molecules in open atmosphere to bunch up at the earth’s surface where air molecules want to spread out equal distance from each other and should equalize with the less pressure and density above in your delusion with no gravity. 

Quote from: turbonium2 on March 14, 2025, 06:58:48 PM

Your made up force, you claim will pull all things down from air to the Earths surface, would never let a balloon filled with air or helium rise up from the surface, no matter what their mass or density is!

And yet.  A bottle of breathing air and helium used in diving doesn’t separate out by density.


So?  What causes the air molecules in open atmosphere to bunch up at the earth’s surface where air molecules want to spread out equal distance from each other and should equalize with the less pressure and density above in your delusion with no gravity.

Well sir, I'm not sure if this is what your last question was, but air pressure builds up at the surface due to gravity. Gravity pulls down the air molecules, compressing pressure at sea level.

And sir, to answer your first question about why helium doesn't separate in a breathing tank, I have two responses:
1. Helium is not a significant portion of air. It is also not present in most breathing tanks. Usually breathing tanks have nitrogen and oxygen in them.
2. Air is a compound, meaning that there are chemical bonds between atoms of nitrogen, oxygen, etc. This means that one molecule of air can't really be separated into individual elements.

Also, I am not meaning to sound like I think I am better than you. I believe we should all stay respectful of each other and post here in a respectful tone. We should all value each others' opinions as we value our own.

There’s no relationship to both mediums of air and water to your made up force called ‘gravity’, you need another made up force called ‘buoyancy’ to account for it.

Again, that is for YOUR made up force, your strawman of gravity.

Back in reality, buoyancy is a direct result of gravity, a result you need to continually flee from because it destroys your delusional BS.

In reality, that gravity you hate so much creates a pressure gradient in all fluids.
This pressure gradient means the pressure at the bottom of an object pushing up is greater than the pressure at the top pushing down.
That means that fluid pushes UP!

And that pressure gradient is observable and measurable.
All you can do is continually flee and repeat the same pathetic lies.

You cannot address that pressure gradient because it kills your BS.

You have no explanation at all for what magic causes it in your delusional fantasy, nor do you have any explanation for why it doesn't push everything up.

It’s pointless and endless and always changes, back and forth and all around.

Thanks for summing your BS.
You do continually change it, because it doesn't work.

Meanwhile, gravity remains consistent with you unable to show fault.

Balloons filled with air or helium rise up in air, because they are less dense than the surrounding medium of air.

That provides no reason for them to rise.
You may as well just be saying that they rise because they rise.

Your made up force, you claim will pull all things down from air to the Earths surface, would never let a balloon filled with air or helium rise up from the surface, no matter what their mass or density is!

Again, just as stupid as saying it would never allow a skinny kid on a see-saw to go up, while entirely ignoring the fat kid on the other side.

The very real force of gravity most certainly would push that balloon up, to allow the air around it to go down.

A magnet shows how a real force acts. Every actual force shows how they really act and behave.

Yes, in a manner consistent with how gravity behaves and nothing like your delusional BS.


In your delusional fantasy, WHAT CAUSES THE PRESSURE GRADIENT?
And why doesn't this pressure gradient push things up?

Why would your made up force ever push things up when you claim it pulls all things down to Earths surface? You make up whatever happens in the real world and change your argument for anything at all.

The ever conflicting ever changing force of all things and problems which destroy it as made up for whatever you need it for!

Why would God ever make a stupid spinning and speeding through endless space ball Earth? That’s as dumb as it can get, and He didn’t do such a stupid thing as you believe of a ball Earth.

The Earth is flat and doesn’t ever move or spin or zip aimlessly like a cannonball through endless ‘space’, in peril of complete destruction by pure random chance! Oops, why’d I do that, I should’ve made it safe to live on and protect it from all dangers!

Maybe next time I will!

You like that one, it’s all yours bud

Why would your made up force ever push things up when you claim it pulls all things down to Earths surface?

Do you understand that air molecules want to equalize and equidistant themselves.

What force causes air molecules to bunch up at earth’s surface?  Where in your no gravity delusion the greater pressure and density of the lower atmosphere should equalize with the lower pressure and density of the upper atmosphere.

Gravity is the force that bunches up air molecules at the earth’s surface resulting in “buoyancy”.  You know.  Where a hot air ballon can rise then maintain a certain altitude by matching the density of the air around it.

Again…

No.  Gravity is what gives weight to objects of mass.



Gravity is what my arm and strength strains against to lift the 50 lbs weight above my head. 

Gravity is a real force acting on my arm as a lever multiplying the strain at my shoulder where I can’t raise the same 50 lbs straight out arms length.

Gravity is the reason I can’t push a car in neutral up hill where I can push the same car in neutral all day  long over a garage floor.

Gravity is the reason cars have to exert more force by downshifting and burning more fuel as attested to by RPMs and fuel mileage to get up steep hills.

Gravity is the reason you have to strain and exert more force to peddle a bicycle up hill.

Gravity is the reason falling water can drive a water wheel overcoming the friction of grindstones to turn a mill.