WHY would the government trick us?

No,

No.  You been caught in serval lies.

The latest lie is Polaris is supposedly fixed, static, and sits directly on the northern celestial pole. 

Bulma, you directly lied about imaging and slander people’s work as fake.  Where you had to lie about the imaging you referenced. Where you pirate and hijack other people’s work with no credit to them, without even linking to the source.

Where the offset of Polaris from the northern celestial pole can be measure with a fair amount of accuracy, and where that offset is used to align mounts for telescopes and cameras directly to the northern celestial pole. 

Bulma.  You claim you believe what can be proven.  It’s been proven Polaris circles the northern celestial pole.  It’s been proven for decades by many people.  Where Bulma, you refuse to imagine Polaris through the course of a clear night for yourself.  So  Bulma, you choose to remain brainwashed into a lie.  You are liter the little programmed robot you project into other people.  Bulma, you are not being bullied .  You are facing the consequences of believing and defending a stupid lie where your pride will not let you admit you were wrong about Polaris.


 

There is so very much to learn. You understand so little.

I repeatedly told you that I do not care about Polaris.

What I mean by this is that I have seen Polaris move in videos.
And I have seen it not move.
And I watched the stars one night until I got bored and went in. I hadn't the patience to sit all night and record then compare.

Bulma, you directly lied about imaging and slander people’s work as fake.  Where you had to lie about the imaging you referenced. Where you pirate and hijack other people’s work with no credit to them, without even linking to the source.

You're lying about this right now. That's how big a liar that you are. For example this:




Now go to View Image Info


With a a minimum amount of effort, any photo can be traced back to its source.  You're accusing me of some grave crime, when the only issue if me not tracing every source. Do you? No, I have yet to see even one picture of yours sourced. The amount of hypocrisy you display is astounding. You hijack and pirate every single photo, you can clearly see my photo link addresses, and you go on to falsify images then pretend outrage when someone points it out.

"Bulma, you stole those photos!" Fine. Pay back every single imgur file and flatearth.ws you have used online. Every last one, and you are not permitted to make any posts until you put a copyright claim on every picture that you have used.

As for me, I literally borrow pictures. In case you haven't noticed, Discord pictures disappear after about 2 days. This is because they use a OTC for their address, and the one-time code going obsolete breaks the link to the image. Stole nothing. Imgur pictures never expire, so any pictures you post are pemanently on record. You are not allowed to post at all until you search through your entire post history and credit every single picture.

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-make-the-enemy-live-up-to-its-own-book-of-rules-saul-alinsky-68-67-17.jpg)

Bulma.  You claim you believe what can be proven.  It’s been proven Polaris circles the northern celestial pole. 

I don't care what people claim to have proven. I care what can be seen with my own eyes. Since I don't feel like spending hours looking at a single star that barely moves, I'm agnostic about it.

You don't actually care what can be proven either. You care what your RE buddies say has been proven.

Again. Let's say Polaris moves. Okay, so if you can legit prove it moves, sure, I admit it moves.
If Eric Dubay can prove that it doesn't move, that's fine too.

But since you cannot prove that it matters, it does not matter.



What happens in the sky has no bearing on the shape of the Earth. The stars in the sky could be line dancing. But if the Earth appears as flat as my chest when I am not wearing breast forms, no events in the sky will ever prove otherwise in terms of the flatness of the Earth.

That's why you can always use Polaris to find the direction north. Even though the North Star doesn't appear to move, it does move. The North Star is a symbol for constancy.

If I look at something late at night that doesn't appear to move, my brain shuts off and I head to sleep. The point being that it's steady enough for sailors to look up at it now and then and use it to navigate. Whatever movement that does or doesn't happen does not affect its position as a constant star.

What happens in the sky has no bearing on the shape of the Earth.

What people observe in the sky at the same time but from different locations does have a bearing on the shape of the earth.  People looking at the moon from NYC, Chicago and LA at the same moment will see very different things if the earth is flat vs round.

There is so very much to learn.

Evidently not by you.

You are brainwashed into the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.

When provided that is known that Polaris circles the northern celestial pole and that offset is used.  Where evidence is repeatedly shown.  Where Bulma you lie about the video you provided.

Where Bulma you can’t admit you are wrong.  You can’t admit that Polaris does indeed circle the northern celestial pole.  Where you can’t admit it’s useful knowing the actual offset of Polaris from the northern celestial pole for aligning to the actual northern celestial pole.

Bulma.  You’re like a sick parody of a typical flat earther that can’t “learn” because they are caught up in the lies and being brainwashed into FE.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on August 04, 2025, 10:59:07 AM

There is so very much to learn.

Evidently not by you.

You are brainwashed into the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.

I don’t know if I would go so far as to call it a lie.  I’d say it’s more of an oversimplification, like so many things that aren’t quite as simple as they seem.  You know, like saying that gravity is a force when it really isn’t.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on August 04, 2025, 11:24:31 AM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on August 04, 2025, 10:59:07 AM

There is so very much to learn.

Evidently not by you.

You are brainwashed into the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.

I don’t know if I would go so far as to call it a lie.  I’d say it’s more of an oversimplification, like so many things that aren’t quite as simple as they seem.  You know, like saying that gravity is a force when it really isn’t.

And yet Bulma posted this.

There is so very much to learn. You understand so little.

Polaris quite clearly moves over a few hours.







Polaris is offset from the pole enough that it has to be compensated for when aligning to the actual northern celestial pole.

Not being able to accept that and learn means to believe a lie.  But it’s more that that. Bulma has to lie about their own video they championed.  Bulma has to falsely claim other people’s honest work and effort are fake.

This goes away if Bulma can just admit to being wrong concerning Polaris.  You know, where they claim they want to learn and believe what can be proven.  No.  Bulma is just posting empty cliches where they just want to play the victim.  The exact behavior of a con trying to win the conference their mark.   Then Bulma calls shill and nazi to character assassinate anyone posting proof that kills their delusion. 

No, you expect me to fritter away time on large projects.

No, we don't. We expect that you will continue to reject reality with no basis at all, and put in no effort to try to understand it.
You will continue to reject evidence as fake yet make absolutely no attempt to get comparable evidence to show the original evidence is actually fake.

Tell me that I haven't done enough, that I haven't made a "perfect" model.

No, I tell you that if you want to reject evidence as fake, you should go get the evidence yourself, rather than relying upon lying scum like your cult leader Dubay; nor shuold you just look for things which you think support you and ignore everything that shows you are wrong.

You definitely shouldn't just take a cursory glace, and then lie about what the evidence actually shows.

You can take or leave my arguments.

You have no arguments.
You have desperation, wilful rejection of reality and pathetic lies.

Actions have consequences.

Yes, they do.
And your continued rejection of evidence as "fake" with no basis at all other than it contradicting your fantasy, clearly shows everyone that you have no integrity and no concern for the truth.
Likewise, you repeatedly lying to everyone and getting caught, shows you are lying dishonest scum that doesn't respect anyone here.
And that gets the consequence that no one should ever respect you.
You are nothing more than pathetic, desperate, lying, subhuman scum.

Respect is a 2 way street.
Once you have shown you will just repeatedly lie to everyone and make no attempt to own up to those lies you show you have no interest in respecting anyone, so other people lose respect for you.
That is why I honestly call you a lying POS, because you are.
If you want respect, you need to start acting with respect and that means owning up to your pathetic lies.

You can start by admitting you repeatedly lied to everyone about Polaris, that the footage you provided clearly shows Polaris circling the north celestial pole, and that you repeatedly lied to everyone when you claimed it showed it to be still.

Because I know that no proof is gonna convince you.

Except that is just yet another pathetic lie.
You make no attempt to provide proof.
Your pathetic BS lies are not proof at all.
I would be convinced by proof. Which is why I accept Earth is round, because of all the evidence that it is.
Meanwhile, all you have are pathetic lies.
You lie about what is expected for the RE model.
You lie about what is expected for various FE models.
You lie about what is observed in reality.

You cannot have a proof built upon lies.

Round Earth wins if everyone moves to an echo chamber

And RE still wins if all you have defending a flat Earth is lying scum like you that repeatedly gets caught out in such obvious lies.
You show how utterly pathetic and desperate the flat Earth movement and flat Earthers are.

Flat Earth wins in any real debate, because its opponent is built on lies that don't add up.

There you go lying yet again.
If that was the case, why do you never try a real debate?
Why do you instead repeatedly resort to lies that don't add up?
When you are describing this "opponent" you are describing yourself.

And again, we have a wonderful example of this here:

You lie to everyone by claiming this footage shows Polaris is stationary, except for the jump at the end.
But all that jump is, is completing the loop by going back to the start.
You also admit that it is impossible for the only movement to be a downwards jump, as that would require it to get lower and lower.

Your pathetic lies do not add up.
Yet you were happy to continually repeat those lies and other lies, until you were called out too much, and ran out of excuses and desperately tried to flee and deflect.

So no, FE LOSES all real debates because the entire FE movement is built upon nothing but obvious, pathetic lies that don't add up.

I repeatedly told you that I do not care about Polaris.

And you also clearly demonstrated that is a pathetic lie.
If you really didn't care you wouldn't have made such a big fuss about it being fixed and stationary, and would have simply admitted that the footage you provided clearly shows it moved.
Yet even you refuse to admit that.

Don't both with general claims about any generic footage.
Deal with the footage YOU provided and claimed that Polaris was stationary in.
Admit that it moves in that footage and that you repeatedly lied about it being stationary.

Again, you being unwilling to accept reality of it appearing to trace a circle around the north celestial pole, after you brought up that very claim of it being stationary to pretend the northern hemisphere is magically different to the southern hemisphere, shows how important it is to you and how much you care.

You lying to everyone by saying you do not care wont negate your actions.

If you want to show you don't care, then admit you repeatedly lied about it and admit Polaris is not at the north celestial pole but is actually slightly off from it so it appears to trace a circle around it.
If you really didn't care, you would happily admit this.

But, if as we both know, it is crucial for you to have it fixed at the north celestial pole you will refuse to admit it.

And I have seen it not move.

Did you? Or did you simply not notice it move?
There is a very big difference.

If I show you 2 images of the night sky 1 microsecond apart, you likely wouldn't notice anything move. That doesn't mean you see it not move, nor does it mean it doesn't move, nor does it in any way contradict footage showing it does move.

You're lying about this right now. That's how big a liar that you are. For example this:

No, you are lying about it, yet again.
In your desperate attempt to reject reality, you need to lie about you having lied and falsely claim other people, who are telling the truth, are lying.
All it does is show how utterly pathetic you and the FE movement are, and how dishonest you are, and how FE can only pretend to be defended with obvious, blatant lies.

With a a minimum amount of effort, any photo can be traced back to its source.

Except you have already had that pathetic BS of yours refuted.
That is not tracing it back to its source.
That is just showing where the image is hosted.
It isn't even showing that image in context.

I have yet to see even one picture of yours sourced

Do you mean the pictures they have taken themselves which would be sourced to themselves?

I'm agnostic about it.

Again, if this was the case, you wouldn't have made such a big deal about it.
It is quite clear that you deeply care about it.

You don't actually care what can be proven either.

And another pathetic lie, which you can't substantiate at all.

Let's say Polaris moves.

No, not just "Let's say".
Actual deal with reality.
Admit to it actually appearing to circle the north pole.
Not under some pathetic hypothetical, but in reality. A reality, where you have repeatedly lied to everyone, showing how desperate you are for it to be magically fixed at the north celestial pole.

it does not matter

Again, YOU made it matter.
With your desperate appeals for it to be magically fixed to be so different to the south; and by how much you repeated the same pathetic lie that it is fixed.
Now, when repeatedly called out on your lies, you do whatever you can to deflect.

If you want it to not matter, then admit you lied.
Admit it does move, and admit the Sigma Octantis not being perfectly on the south celestial pole doesn't negate its use as a south pole star.

What happens in the sky has no bearing on the shape of the Earth.

No, but measuring the angle to various objects in the sky, at various points on Earth's surface, with a known distance between those points, allows you to determine the shape of Earth.

On a similar note, people in the north being able to easily observe Polaris in the sky, while those in the south can't, also provide a very clear indication of shape - that Earth is not flat. That Earth is obstructing the view to Polaris, which requires it to be round.

So contrary to your pathetic dismissal, and brainless garbage from your cult leader, observations of the sky can tell us about the shape of Earth.
And the fact you make no attempt to actually refute this and instead just continually assert the same pathetic BS, shows you are not interested in any real debate, and that like always FE loses, and that all FEers are losers, except for potentially the cult leaders that win off the foolish cultists like you.

if the Earth appears as flat

It doesn't. So we can skip the rest of your hypothetical BS.


Again, if you want to show that FE doesn't need to resort to lies, and could potentially win in a real debate, and that Polaris being fixed isn't so crucial to you, then admit to your lies.
Admit the footage you provided clearly shows Polaris moves and that you repeatedly lied about it.
Admit the evidence shows Polaris moves.
And admit that that means the north celestial pole and south celestial pole are equivalent, with neither having a star magically centred directly at the pole.

Or continue to show how utterly pathetic and dishonest you are, and how the FE movement need to resort to blatant lies and deflection.

Polaris quite clearly moves over a few hours.

Which could happen just as easily on a flat earth.  Is this really worth the effort?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on August 04, 2025, 01:50:56 PM

Polaris quite clearly moves over a few hours.

Which could happen just as easily on a flat earth.  Is this really worth the effort?

So, why refuse to learn the actual reality of Polaris as it relates to the northern celestial pole. 

Which has nothing to do with Bulma blatantly lying about actual evidence of what is actually occurring.

  I got some nice Star pics out of it.  Bulma has lies and refuses to do anything but glance at Polaris. I can tell Polaris moves because I use a tree in the yard as reference.  I keep the tree to the right of Polaris for my observations from the same spot.  How high or low Polaris is to the tree as reference changes over the course of the night.  So.  I can easily  find Polaris now.  And I have a way to track it by eye.


Bulma was only half right.  There is lots to learn if you honestly observe over long periods of time with an actual open mind.

Added.  Who is actually learning in this thread?  Learning what?  To what extent. 

When people talk about "having an open mind," what they really mean is that they want to sell you something.

Have an open mind. You'll see that teachings of Joseph Smith were right.
Have an open mind. If you don't see that Islam is correct, I'll open your brain with this scimitar.
Have an open mind. Join all the other round Earthers who decided to have an open mind and leave FE behind.
Have an open mind. I want to sell you my pyramid scheme... erm, I mean book on how you too can be wealthy.

My mind is neither closed nor opened. I accept ideas on my own based on whether it appeals to me, and seems to my mind to have merit or be interesting. There are a number very strange ideas that I've accepted over the years. For example, I quite like the Happy Science films. But I don't buy merch from Eric Dubay nor any Happy Science ppl.

What I have no use for, however, is people who are closed minded cultists telling me "keep an open mind." No thanks. Not buying your nonsense. Btw, how can you be sure the star is moving? I thought according to your own theory, the entire Earth is moving. So regardless of where the North Pole is, the North Star would have to move constantly in order to appear still. The reason that I say that it does not matter if Polaris appears to circle or not is that it would be more than circling but trying to keep up if the Earth were really doing all the movements you claim.

"Keep an open mind though. I'm sure that you'll figure it soon (and think the way I do)."

It is because I have an open mind that I don't need others to think the same way. 

Which could happen just as easily on a flat earth.  Is this really worth the effort?

Yes. Because he has made it so important to him, only to flee from it. Because he has been caught in an obvious and blatant lie which he is unwilling to admit.

When people talk about "having an open mind," what they really mean is that they want to sell you something.

That is when lying scum like you talk about it.
When honest people talk about it, they actually mean to have an open mind and an honest discussion. Two things which appear impossible for you.

I accept ideas on my own based on whether it appeals to me, and seems to my mind to have merit or be interesting.

i.e. you are close minded.

What I have no use for, however, is people who are closed minded cultists telling me "keep an open mind."

So lying conmen FEers like Eric Dubay?

You certainly seem to have use for him, and happily accept his dishonest BS without thinking.

how can you be sure the star is moving? I thought according to your own theory, the entire Earth is moving.

It is moving relative to the observer.

The reason that I say that it does not matter if Polaris appears to circle or not is that it would be more than circling but trying to keep up if the Earth were really doing all the movements you claim.

And you have had that pathetic lie of yours refuted countless times.
But again, this isn't about that.

It is because I have an open mind that I don't need others to think the same way.

No, it is because you have a closed mind, you refuse to accept reality which goes against your preconceived notions.
Or as you put it, you are delusional.

But there you go showing just how dishonest you are, and how you are willing to blatantly lie to everyone.

And just in case you missed it:

My mind is neither closed nor opened.
...
It is because I have an open mind

In a single post, you are claiming to not have an open mind, and claiming to have one.

Great job showing just how much of a worthless, pathetic, lying, subhuman scumbag you are.

Quote from: markjo on August 04, 2025, 04:58:37 PM

Which could happen just as easily on a flat earth.  Is this really worth the effort?

Yes. Because he has made it so important to him, only to flee from it. Because he has been caught in an obvious and blatant lie which he is unwilling to admit.

Seems like it’s more important to you guys than to Bulma. Or just about anyone else.

When people talk about "having an open mind,"

Is used by you to facilitate a con.

You claim you want learn.  That is BS.

I learned how to image Polaris over the course of hours.

I have reproduced other people’s results.

I have verified for myself why aligning to Polaris isn’t really aligning to the northern celestial pole since Polaris is offset by about .7 degrees.

I have learned how people use that known and proven offset that causes Polaris to circle the northern celestial pole to align to the actual northern celestial pole.


Because of your pride or trying to facilitate a con Bulma, you can’t admit to any of that.

You’re blinded by thinking the unaided eye is infallible when it’s very erroneous.  The simple fact we have rulers to produce accurate and consistent results proves that.

Bulma.  My knowledge and practical use of photography has grown with me capturing some beautiful images.

All you have Bulma is being brainwashed, made static by your pride and confirmation bias, and an ugly lie. 

You claim you want (to) learn.

Picture this, a person who wants to learn walks into a classroom. But instead of the teacher, the off-duty janitor is there, and the kid is taught how to pick up teenage women and not get caught. Did the person actually get a proper teacher?

I claim I want to learn. So I read books, research things online, and figure things out myself. I never claimed that I want you to teach me.

I have an attention span of about 15 minutes (pretty bad ADD). The other night, we were in the pool long enough for the stars to come out. I saw Venus come out, and second might have been Polaris? We stayed long enough to see alot of stars come out, but the only thing that noticed move during that time was Venus. Polaris looked the same the whole time, and we were getting soaked, and no I don't feel like sticking around when bats are out.

So yeah, I'm not going to join you in you RE graven image worship. That's apparently what the Hebrew people thought of the RE. Today's Jews, like many Christians, have been infiltrated by Big Science.

All I know is that in the time frame before bats scared me indoors, the star that was Polaris didn't noticeably move, whereas Venus was in a different spot from when I first saw it.

Let me repeat this. I know who my teachers are. You are not one of them. I have no use for your false knowledge or your questionable photography. Stick to petty landscapes and not warty doctored pictures of the moon.

Seems like it’s more important to you guys than to Bulma. Or just about anyone else.

That is correct. It's important to them, not me.

Picture this,

That I actually question and over came the limits of the unaided eye.  Come up with more understanding on photography and more skills as a photographer.

 And have images like this to add to my collection.



Or this..




Where I actually question, even question what is in books, observe, and have grown as a person and my skills as a photographer.

Have gone out in the field to observe for myself. 

Where you Bulma are brainwashed into the lie that Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.  Which is useless for aligning to the actual northern celestial pole.  Where Bulma you just pirate, hijack other people’s work with no credit to them with no context of the images. 

 

Markjo, it's funny how he doesn't understand the word "not interested."

Are you by any chance autistic, Data? Can you not pick up on social cues? So let me spell it out for you. Nothing about this interests me,  nor convinces me.

 "not interested."

You cared enough to bring it up then lie about the “evidence” you provided.

Where you claim you want to “learn”.

Where you Bulma are brainwashed into the lie that Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.  Which is useless for aligning to the actual northern celestial pole.  Where Bulma you just pirate, hijack other people’s work with no credit to them with no context of the images.

All I know is that in the time frame before bats scared me indoors, the star that was Polaris didn't noticeably move, whereas Venus was in a different spot from when I first saw it.

Polaris moving in a 1/2 degree circle is not something that one should expect to see with the naked eye and short attention span.  It really does require a time lapse zoomed in on Polaris to be noticeable.  If someone provides such a time lapse, then you really don’t have much reason to not believe it unless you have similar evidence to contradict it.  Just saying “I didn’t see with my naked eye and short attention span, so it didn’t happen” doesn’t cut it.

Polaris moving in a 1/2 degree circle is not something that one should expect to see with the naked eye and short attention span. 

https://flatearth.ws/polaris-declination



The angular size of the moon is actually kinda big.  And the spread of Polaris from the northern celestial pole is larger. 

Like I posted.  I’ve been observing Polaris from the same spot with a tree to the right.  Can can tell Polaris moves over time using the tree as a reference.

Again.  Bulma that claims they can “learn” thought it was important enough to lie about Polaris and then made false allegations concerning evidence that shows Polaris circles the northern celestial pole as fake. Where Bulma repeatedly doubled down on lies and accusations.  Where it is actually useful to know the offset of Polaris for actually aligning to the actual northern celestial pole.

This goes away if Bulma who claims there is lots to learn admits they were wrong on Polaris is static, fixed, and supposedly sits on the northern celestial pole. I’m not even asking for an apology on Bulma’s repeated false claims my imaging is “fake”.  Bulma’s lies speak for themselves on Bulma’s character. 

Polaris moving in a 1/2 degree circle is not something that one should expect to see with the naked eye and short attention span. 

Shrugs..

Latitude by Polaris

https://www.siranah.de/html/sail008l.htm#:~:text=Today%2C%20we%20know%20that%20the,obtain%20a%20better%20Latitude%20estimation.


Today, we know that the position of Polaris is not exactly on the North Celestial Pole. The current Declination (2018) is about 89° 20.1'. Translating the Polaris Altitude directly into Latitude may result in an error of up to 0.7° or a position error of up to 40 nautical miles in the North-South direction. As ephemerides became more accurate over the centuries, the measured Polaris Altitude, could be adjusted to obtain a better Latitude estimation.

This section describes how to determine Latitude from the Polaris Altitude and the procedure to apply and to calculate the required adjustments. The corresponding tables are printed on the last pages of the manual "Nautical Almanac for selected Stars" available from the Compiled Manuals - Download Section.

Shrugs.  Polaris is off enough there are corrective tables to make more accurate positioning from using Polaris for celestial navigation. 

Shrugs.  Polaris is off enough there are corrective tables to make more accurate positioning from using Polaris for celestial navigation. 

I'm willing to bet that they aren't using naked eye observations to reference those corrective tables.  I'm also willing to bet that Bulma will never observe Polaris with anything other than naked eye.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on August 05, 2025, 01:48:08 PM

Shrugs.  Polaris is off enough there are corrective tables to make more accurate positioning from using Polaris for celestial navigation. 

I'm willing to bet that they aren't using naked eye observations to reference those corrective tables.

How do you measure the angle of Polaris by the unaided eye?  Where Polaris can be a width greater than a moon from the northern celestial pole?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on August 05, 2025, 01:48:08 PM

Shrugs.  Polaris is off enough there are corrective tables to make more accurate positioning from using Polaris for celestial navigation. 

I'm willing to bet that they aren't using naked eye observations to reference those corrective tables.  I'm also willing to bet that Bulma will never observe Polaris with anything other than naked eye.

Shrugs..



I’m guessing it was known for at least a few hundred years Polaris isn’t at the northern celestial pole and needed a correction. 

Seems like it’s more important to you guys than to Bulma. Or just about anyone else.

No, the fact he has been caught in such an obvious lie is the main thing of importance to me in this regard.
I don't really care if Polaris is fixed at the centre of the north celestial pole or not.
But the fact they still refuse to admit they lied and admit Polaris is not exactly at the north celestial pole, after they brought it up and repeatedly claimed that, shows how important it is to them.
It is so important to them, they now need to deflect away from it at all costs, so they can continue to pretend Polaris is fixed, so they can continue to pretend the north is special.

Picture this, a person who wants to learn walks into a classroom.

And when they see the teacher, they instead decide to call them a close minded, paid shill, and reject all the evidence they show as fake.
When they teacher tries to explain, this insolent student just ignores the explanations and spouts a load of pathetic BS.
When the teacher explains what is wrong with that pathetic BS, the insolent student just ignores it and spouts the same or similar pathetic BS again, as if the teacher never said anything.
When the teacher suggests doing an experiment, this insolent student says they don't want to and asks why they should be doing all the work.
And after a back and forth a few times, the insolent student then starts desperately bringing up other pathetic BS on a completely different topic to pretend the teacher hasn't explained why they are wrong.

That pretty much describes what you are doing here.

we were in the pool long enough for the stars to come out. I saw

And did you use any instruments at all or any way to track position?
No.
Again, this is simply a case of your eyes not being good enough to see if it moves.
Eyes are not precision instruments capable of recognising a small movement.

So yeah, I'm not going to join you in you RE graven image worship.

You mean you wont join is in RE reality, instead you will stick to your pathetic cult, with your cult leaders like Dubay doing your thinking for you.

I have no use for your false knowledge or your questionable photography.

You mean you have no use for actual knowledge, and will stick to false knowledge from lying scum like your cult leader Dubay; and you have no interest in simple photos that show you are wrong.

That is correct. It's important to them, not me.

Again, if it wasn't important to you, you would have just admitted the video clearly showed Polaris moves.
But because of how important it is to you for Polaris to be fixed, as if it is a central part of your belief system, you can't even bring yourself to do that.

Not even saying it moves in reality, just in the video you provided and lied to everyone about.

That is how crucial it is to your world view.

Again, if you want to show it isn't important to you, then admit it.
Admit the video YOU provided clearly shows Polaris moving, and that you have repeatedly lied to everyone.
Until you do, you demonstrate how important it is to you.

Quote from: markjo on August 05, 2025, 04:36:21 AM

Seems like it’s more important to you guys than to Bulma. Or just about anyone else.

No, the fact he has been caught in such an obvious lie is the main thing of importance to me in this regard.

If you're expecting intellectual integrity from an FE'er, then you're fighting the wrong fight.

Quote from: JackBlack on August 05, 2025, 02:20:59 PM

Quote from: markjo on August 05, 2025, 04:36:21 AM

Seems like it’s more important to you guys than to Bulma. Or just about anyone else.

No, the fact he has been caught in such an obvious lie is the main thing of importance to me in this regard.

If you're expecting intellectual integrity from an FE'er, then you're fighting the wrong fight.

If Polaris doesn’t matter.  Why not admit Polaris circles the northern celestial pole which has been known for at least a few hundred years with various means to correct for the known offset. 

But Bulma has doubled down on playing the victim while throwing out insults and false accusations.

You are right in one regard. Typical FE behavior.  Take something known, proven many ways over many years, who’s information is useful, then blatantly lie and make false accusations of fake. 

If you're expecting intellectual integrity from an FE'er, then you're fighting the wrong fight.

I'm not expecting that, which is why I am calling him out on such an obvious lie.