WHY would the government trick us?

East and west have a meaning. In fact, thanks to Flat Earth, I am never lost, even without tools.

North is toward the center, where Polaris is.
South is away from the center.
Your pathetic arrows fail at the most basic understanding that and west are fundamentally based on the sun. The goes from east to west or counterclockwise. This means west is toward the sunset, and east is toward the sunrise. This also means that you can use the entire sky as on big compass, effectively allowing you to throw away less accurate magnetic compasses.

NORTH
(sun is on your right during sunrise, and left during sunset)
WEST
(facing sun in afternoon/evening, away from sun in morning)
EAST
(facing sun in morning, away from the sun after the noon)
SOUTH
(sun is on your left during sunrise, and right during sunset)

Using the sun as a guide, you can, after a bit of practice and unlearning of stupid directional bearings, figure out directions in the absence of a compass.

As a kid, I thought east was a simple direction like right. That is how I was able to be fooled by RE teachers. Like a kid, you get a FE circle, and you draw north as toward the top, south as toward the bottom, east as right, and west as left.
I also thought that the sun sets straight west, but it's kinda to the northwest.

Now I understand that right and left are personal directions, of use for short term road navigation (e.g. take four rights... and you'll end up on the same street) whereas east is for longer term navigation (e.g. heading west from Virginia to California, or east to GTFO of California).

FE simply fails to be useful on many levels.

Another lie.

South is away from the center.

On a FE, any direction that isn’t towards center is away from center.



Heading perpendicular out of the east coast doesn’t take you south parallel to the coast of Africa.  It takes you east where you should face the rising sun each morning traveling by boat.  FE debunked again.  Damn. 

Can you address what is actually posted.




That above debunks flat earth in that it is an accurate map of the night sky for the southern hemisphere. 

The reason this works at predicting the night sky for people in Australia, South America, and Africa is because the earth is spherical.


I’m sorry Bulma you are too brainwashed or too deep in your pathological lies to acknowledge that.

The star atlases for people in Australia, South Africa, and Africa accurately predicts star rise and set times and what is visible in the night sky hour by hour.  It does that because the earth is spherical and has one southern celestial pole.  That one celestial pole is what people are all seeing when they look south to the one and same celestial pole.

South doesn’t work as the same relative direction on a FE.

Crux is a constellation that points where one has to “look” more south to locate the southern celestial pole. 



And not this..

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on March 22, 2024, 01:18:43 PM

No one uses Sigma Octatntis to navigate to the supposed south pole.

I've ignored nothing, but I am going to start now by ignoring your stupid bullshit.

??

You keep trying to change the subject with basically lying how navigation in the southern hemisphere works with a sextant.  It’s not based off the celestial South Pole for the southern hemisphere where Polaris isn’t visible because of the earth’s curvature? 

How to find the celestial South Pole makes sense on a globe / sphere.






The celestial South Pole is meaningless on a flat earth

And now you've even moved it off center as part of the circle.

Total fucking dishonesty.

Added..

From the person that posed this?

To answer the OP question, when society pushes too hard to have everyone agree, ideas that the mainstream considers fringe appear.

So I framed the picture as I saw fit and the person that is bitching about “society pushes too hard to have everyone agree” has a $hit fit because I don’t meet their preconceived expectations?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

How is framing the series of shots how I choose so part of the tree is in the lower right hand corner as reference to show I didn’t move the camera during the 461 photos each being a 30 second exposure to create the time lapse dishonest?  Where the time lapse shows Polaris moves over time?



Where I used the same photos seen in the time lapse to render the star trails?



Yeap.  Polaris still circles the northern celestial pole.

Bulma.  To continue to believe the lie Polaris is fixed, static, and sits on the northern celestial pole is to be brainwashed. 

So are you lying, or just wrong.

That is a question for you.
But given how many times it has been explained to you and demonstrated that you are wrong, it cannot simply be that you are wrong.
Instead, it needs to be you are knowingly wrong and lying to everyone; or you are so heavily brain damaged/brain washed that you are incapable of reasoning and incapable of realising that you are wrong.
So which is it?

If you're literally reversing what people see to make your model move, you're already debunked.
...
The stars are moving, not the Earth.
Fucking stupid.

You most certainly are fucking stupid.
Like a complete imbecile sitting in a car on a freeway, claiming the car couldn't possibly be moving because you can put your finger on it and see it doesn't move, and instead the entire world is moving past you.
That is the level of your insane stupidity.

But enough of your absolutely pathetic stupidity.

We can move onto that once you address/admit to your blatant lie:
Again:


From 7 to 21 seconds.
The period of time where YOU claim it shows Polaris as stationary.
Yet we clearly see when the loop completes and it goes back to the start, Polaris moves down (and a bit to the side).

This puts you in the position of claiming something you admit is impossible.
You claim this footage shows Polaris stationary only to jump down when the loop completes.
Yet you admit that is impossible.
There is no way for Polaris to be stationary the entire time and just jump downwards to complete the loop.
This shows Polaris is moving in the footage where you claim it is stationary.

Going to admit to your lie yet?

So I framed the picture as I saw fit and the person that is bitching about “society pushes too hard to have everyone agree” has a $hit fit because I don’t meet their preconceived expectations?

This is me not having a shit fit.

I told you repeatedly that whether Polaris is or is not moving as you say, it is nonetheless at the center of things. It is at the center from Hokkaido, Japan, from Boulder, Colorado, from Jerusalem, Israel, and from Moscow, Russia.
There is only one way that it can appear to be the center in all of these places. If it actually is the center. If you spin a dartboard on a table, the bullseye might indeed wobble in a circle as the whole board moves. But that does not change its status as the center.

Yet here, lose your shit, blubbering, "B-b-but! It moves! Why doesn't that convince you?!?" Meanwhile, I'm trying to move on and actually talk about the topic, but like an Epstein File, you just keep circling back to this stupid argument.

Yeah, maybe it doesn't move. Maybe it does.

Does this have anything to do with that you can navigate using the position of the sun in the sky? No, it's just a red herring. You're using the claim of Polaris moving to push aside questions you can't answer, like why the government has lied for years, how you can see useful model through flat Earth that allows telling a time and seasons, or how round Earth fails to be useful.

You can't answer that so you're trying to bait me with the same old red fish that are now rotten. Not interested, not biting.

This is me not having a shit fit.

Bulma.  Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is fixed, static, and sits on the north celestial pole?  When Polaris is shown to circle the northern celestial polar.  When it’s proven that Polaris circles the northern celestial pole. Where the offset of Polaris from the northern celestial pole is used to align not the actual northern celestial pole. 

Bulma.  Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is fixed, static, and sits on the north celestial pole?  When Polaris is shown to circle the northern celestial polar.  When it’s proven that Polaris circles the northern celestial pole. Where the offset of Polaris from the northern celestial pole is used to align not the actual northern celestial pole.

Probably because the offset is so small that it doesn't matter for the vast majority of observations.  To be fair, that same offset would probably be observed if the earth was flat and the sky was rotating above.  It seems to me that this is a relatively minor point that has gotten way out of control.

See, I've just said that I don't care, that there are bigger and more relevant points, and you decide that you can't let it go.

Polaris is moving. Or it isn't.
But what it is, is in the center of stars, despite your fake ass pictures where you claim that it isn't.

In any case, none of that makes any difference in the fact that NASA draws a years budget of $25.38 billion and their employees, the so-called flight surgeons draw $286,126 while the lowest paid employees make $63,728. 



This is NASA. They don't sell anything, buy anything, or process anything. They make pretty pictures for the masses, and like the bearded lady in Barnum's show, the public knows these things aren't real, but they gobble them up so much that they are willing to allow significant funds to go to this nonsense. Even so, public patience may be running low.
https://nasawatch.com/budget/the-public-apparently-wants-to-defund-nasa/

NASA has touched the sun, visited every planet in our solar system, has spaceships traversing interstellar space, and has telescopes that look back toward the dawn of the universe – yet NASA Public Affairs and other communications and outreach efforts at the agency consistently fail to convey these awesome, exciting accomplishments to the public. Only NASA could make America’s unparalleled accomplishments in space exploration so boring that such a large portion of the public wants to cut space funding.

And if it hasn't? What good is it?   
One of the commenters has the right idea.

I think if you compare these numbers with polls going back all the way to the 1960s you will find similar results. Except for a couple months at the time of Apollo 11, the public has generally not been supportive especially of human spaceflight.

NASA tried to prove with Shuttle and more recently with ISS that results of experiments would prove valuable. But there are a few problems. NASA killed astronauts on Shuttle and the public did not like that. The expense of the programs has been ridiculously high, especially with ISS and more recently Orion. Shuttle was a bargain by comparison.

NASA made the integration process for payloads on ISS ridiculously convoluted and lengthy; and at the beginning of the flight program NASA ran off many of the science investigators. Some NASA management did not believe NASA should be funding science and they cut it off the funding abruptly.

Today we hear a lot about Trump eliminating grants for research; NASA did exactly the same thing 20 years ago-with no warning lots of schools, professors and grad students were left without funding.

And of course now we have Musk and Bezos funding their own space programs, and at discount rates, so NASA has met its competition and its hard to justify the huge government expenditures.

And finally NASA’s public affairs and education have gone off the rails in recent years. Once upon a time NASA provided some great educational materials; today even though distribution expenses are much lower thru use of the internet, NASA provides very little.

Whether outer space is real or not, taking it out of the hands of the government and placing it in corporations is a good way to determine whether the expense is worth it. And because it's not, it deserves to be defunded, just as all these other organizations that lie to the public and keep secrets deserve their funding cut.
https://fee.org/articles/nasa-shouldn-t-be-funded-by-the-government/

In 2020, NASA is planning to spend $2.4 billion on a trek to Mars so that they can collect samples of the environment to hopefully answer questions about its potential for life. If you’re thinking that this $2.4 billion price tag includes the retrieval of said samples, you’re unfortunately mistaken. The current plan is to leave the samples in space until they find the time and money to come up with another plan to retrieve them; this could mean several years — even decades — before they decide to even think about the retrieval process.
 
Not only is this project expensive, it also comes with various risks; samples could contaminate our planet and cause unknown reactions, another country could plan a faster retrieval, or the mission could go on indefinitely. The risk that terrifies me most is that these samples have the potential to alter the ecosystem on Earth in ways that we cannot possibly predict; is there a waiver for my life hidden somewhere in the social “contract?” Who decided that knowledge, exclusively for the sake of learning, takes precedence?

Thankfully, there is no such thing as space, so these considerations don't matter.   

Probably because the offset is so small that it doesn't matter for the vast majority of observations. 

And yet there is an off set that is visible with the evidence provided.  Where an individual can clearly capture the offset with simple equipment on their own.  Where Bulma has lied about admitting when they are wrong.  Lied about believing what can be proven.  And has lied about the evidence that clearly shows Polaris circles the northern celestial pole.  Where they criticise people when they provide their own imaging as evidence. 

See,

Bulma.  Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is fixed, static, and sits on the north celestial pole?  When Polaris is shown to circle the northern celestial polar.  When it’s proven that Polaris circles the northern celestial pole. Where the offset of Polaris from the northern celestial pole is used to align not the actual northern celestial pole.

Polaris is moving. Or it isn't.
But what it is, is in the center of stars, despite your fake ass pictures where you claim that it isn't.

From my own series of pictures.

If you think they are fake.  Then do your own time lapse of Polaris over two or three hours with 70 to 600 photos.  Or just take two photos of Polaris two or three hours apart.  Use a land mark in the photo for reference like a tree to show it’s the same view. 






I would have to look up the series.  I think this is from the series of pictures taken with the 85 mm lens. But one of the first photos of the series flash comparator to one of the last photos.



Polaris moves with time over a night.  To say otherwise is a lie and to be brainwashed into a lie.

Whether outer space is real or not, taking it out of the hands of the government and placing it in corporations is a good way to determine whether the expense is worth it. And because it's not, it deserves to be defunded, just as all these other organizations that lie to the public and keep secrets deserve their funding cut.

Oh, then you think that the military should be defunded because they've been lying to the public and keeping secrets pretty much forever.  Tell me, do you think that weather satellites that provide information on hurricane development and progress is worth the expense?  Do you think that GPS is worth the expense?  Since you want to defund the military, they won't need spy satellites. 

BTW, the commercial space industry is already a pretty significant market and growing.
https://sia.org/historic-number-of-launches-powers-commercial-satellite-industry-growth-satellite-industry-association-releases-the-28th-annual-state-of-the-satellite-industry-report/

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on August 02, 2025, 11:11:20 AM

Whether outer space is real or not, taking it out of the hands of the government and placing it in corporations is a good way to determine whether the expense is worth it. And because it's not, it deserves to be defunded, just as all these other organizations that lie to the public and keep secrets deserve their funding cut.

Oh, then you think that the military should be defunded because they've been lying to the public and keeping secrets pretty much forever.  Tell me, do you think that weather satellites that provide information on hurricane development and progress is worth the expense?  Do you think that GPS is worth the expense?  Since you want to defund the military, they won't need spy satellites.

You know Bulma.  They will claim balloons and cell towers. 

This is me not having a shit fit.

Sure it is.
So utterly pathetic you have to repeatedly lie to everyone, and then flee from those lies because you can't defend them, spouting whatever pathetic shit you can to pretend you are right.
That certainly sounds like it.

I told you repeatedly that whether Polaris is or is not moving as you say, it is nonetheless at the center of things.

i.e. you blatantly lied to everyone, and still refuse to admit it.

I'm trying to move on and actually talk about the topic

No, you aren't.
If that was the case, you would simply admitted that you lied to everyone and that the footage you provided clearly shows Polaris is moving.

But you don't want to do that, so you make up whatever pathetic excuse you can to avoid it.

See, I've just said that I don't care, that there are bigger and more relevant points

And yet you still can't bring yourself to admit you lied to everyone and then doubled down on that pathetic lie.
That is all that is needed to move on.
For you to actually show some integrity for once in your pathetic existence and admit you lied to everyone and that the footage YOU provided shows Polaris moving.

And again, this IS relevant to the topic.
It shows how it isn't the government lying about the shape of Earth, instead it is pathetic scum like you.
Scum that decides to spout such obvious lies that are trivial to refute, and when called out on it just double down and repeat the same pathetic lies until you can't pretend any more and then all of a sudden want to flee to another topic.

It shows how truly pathetic and dishonest you are.


Again, if you truly don't care, if you truly think it is irrelevant, then admit it.
Admit the video you provided clearly shows Polaris moving.
Admit you repeatedly lied to everyone when you falsely claimed that the footage you provided shows Polaris stationary.

This is not hard for any decent person to do, all it takes is some integrity, something you clearly lack.

Quote from: markjo on August 02, 2025, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on August 02, 2025, 11:11:20 AM

Whether outer space is real or not, taking it out of the hands of the government and placing it in corporations is a good way to determine whether the expense is worth it. And because it's not, it deserves to be defunded, just as all these other organizations that lie to the public and keep secrets deserve their funding cut.

Oh, then you think that the military should be defunded because they've been lying to the public and keeping secrets pretty much forever.  Tell me, do you think that weather satellites that provide information on hurricane development and progress is worth the expense?  Do you think that GPS is worth the expense?  Since you want to defund the military, they won't need spy satellites.

You know Bulma.  They will claim balloons and cell towers.

Right, because our enemies have no problem letting spy balloons fly over their sensitive military installations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-altitude_object_events_in_2023

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on August 02, 2025, 01:56:05 PM

Quote from: markjo on August 02, 2025, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on August 02, 2025, 11:11:20 AM

Whether outer space is real or not, taking it out of the hands of the government and placing it in corporations is a good way to determine whether the expense is worth it. And because it's not, it deserves to be defunded, just as all these other organizations that lie to the public and keep secrets deserve their funding cut.

Oh, then you think that the military should be defunded because they've been lying to the public and keeping secrets pretty much forever.  Tell me, do you think that weather satellites that provide information on hurricane development and progress is worth the expense?  Do you think that GPS is worth the expense?  Since you want to defund the military, they won't need spy satellites.

You know Bulma.  They will claim balloons and cell towers.

Right, because our enemies have no problem letting spy balloons fly over their sensitive military installations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-altitude_object_events_in_2023

I wanted to shoot it down, but they wouldn’t let me.

Shrugs.  😁

But the military took out a hobby balloon?

Anyway.

After dubious shootdowns, NORAD now checks with balloon hobbyist groups

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/norad-balloons-identify/

The Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade is a hobbyist group that builds, launches and tracks “pico balloons,” lightweight balloons that can carry a small payload like a radio tracker or camera and generally cost between $12 and $200. Since 2021, the group’s balloons have circumnavigated the Earth in peace.

Hmm




The damn Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade are government shills!  Yes sarcasm.  😁

Hahahahahaha, are you trying to hypnotize me into accepting round Earth?



The Earth has a polar center. But even if it didn't, once again, "Measuring the ceiling to tell us about the shape of the ground."



No matter whether Polaris moves or not, until you can successfully prove that it actually matters, you continue to lose here. Red herring is still red herring.

The point is still government waste and manipulation.

H
No matter whether Polaris moves or not, until you can successfully prove that it actually matters,

It does mater for people in astronomy and astrophotography that need to align to the actual celestial North Pole for their mounts that control the motion of there equipment and using computer controlled tripods for locating objects accurately for an entire night.

Where there is clear evidence that Polaris circles the northern celestial pole and people make use of that.

The issue Bulma is you claim you will admit when you are wrong and you believe in the scientific method. 

Yet you lied about provided information, that for astronomy and astrophotography it’s useful to know that Polaris is offset from the northern celestial poles. And refused to try to photograph Polaris over the course of a clear night.

Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits at the northern celestial pole.  Because you would have to admit flat earthers lie to you and your whole delusion starts to unravel.  Where you refuse to make a simple observation for yourself because it takes time and effort. 

No.

It matters for people who stake their reputation on a worldview. Or who get a cut from the climate lobby. Which Trump is defunding, because he and I are tired of this shit.
It matters to RE shills and to government disinformation agents, and online trolls, all of which profit in some way by the general public being convinced that Polaris wobble matters. And it matters to paranoia agents who want to push notions of polar shift so they can hold The End Is Near signs up.

It really doesn't matter either way for real astronomers, except for model accuracy. The fact that there are multiple star trails by time lapse artists, and that they don't match up means that it's of no more relevance than a pretty picture.





All of these are supposed to be northern hemisphere, I think. Wait, I have the perfect song for this.

(Which btw is a knockoff of the Real Slim Shady)
Won't the real northern hemisphere please stand up?

Once again, the point of waste and manipulation is swept aside so you can tell me again how this is super important.

once again, "Measuring the ceiling to tell us about the shape of the ground."

Again, it is not simply measuring the ceiling. It is measuring the ground by using the ceiling as a reference.
You are just further demonstrating how you are happy to lie to everyone.

until you can successfully prove that it actually matters, you continue to lose here.

Again, YOU made it matter.
When YOU decided to bring it into this thread, to deflect from your inability to defend your pathetic BS, and then proceed to blatantly lie about what the video you provided shows.

Again, this is relevant to the thread, because it demonstrates it is not the government lying about the shape of Earth, instead it is pathetic scum like you lying about it.

That will remain true until you own up to your pathetic lie.

No.

It does mater for people in astronomy and astrophotography that need to align to the actual celestial North Pole for their mounts that control the motion of there equipment and using computer controlled tripods for locating objects accurately for an entire night.

Where there is clear evidence that Polaris circles the northern celestial pole and people make use of that.

The issue Bulma is you claim you will admit when you are wrong and you believe in the scientific method.

Yet you lied about provided information, that for astronomy and astrophotography it’s useful to know that Polaris is offset from the northern celestial poles. And refused to try to photograph Polaris over the course of a clear night.

Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits at the northern celestial pole.  Because you would have to admit flat earthers lie to you and your whole delusion starts to unravel.


Where you refuse to make a simple observation for yourself because it takes time and effort.

That’s the problem isn’t Bulma.  You claim to think for yourself.  But all you have is parroting other people’s lies of flat earth.  Where you can’t even be honest about looking at the moon through a telescope for yourself.  Or you can’t even take a few simple pictures of Polaris a few hours apart.  But you are more than willing to be a little bitch and steal other people’s work off the internet with no credit to their work or efforts. 

You're wrong.

I refuse to do it because I'm the only one here making any sacrifices.

"You draw this map.
You go and give up your evening to stare at a single star.
You make a model.
You debate these five or eight points that I asked you."

Excuse me, but I wouldn't put up with that shit from my sister, brother, or parents. Nor from my best friend. You're a complete stranger. For what reason do I have to track a star, where I've explicitly told you at least five times that the movement or nonmovement of Polaris does not affect the FE theory at all.

I refuse

Bulma.  Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.  When Polaris circles the northern celestial pole.  Where you pathologically lie about provided evidence and uses that Polaris is offset from the northern celestial pole.

Last night.  Picture taken on Aug 2, at 9:39 pm



Image info..




The final picture was taken Aug 3, at 12:54 AM



Image info…



Created a gif that is a flash comparator between the two photos.  Just simple not faked photos of the night sky hours apart.



Bulma.  Polaris quite clearly moved a significant amount as the night passed. 


Between those two photos, I took a series of over 300 photos.  I excluded photos with clouds and light trails from aircraft.  I stacked those photos and created this image.



Bulma.  Polaris clearly circles the northern celestial pole.

It’s proven.

It’s known.

The offset of Polaris is used to correctly align mounts for astronomy and astrophotography. 

Bulma.  You claim you aren’t brainwashed.  You claim in believing in the scientific method and what can be proven.  It’s been proven Polaris circles the northern celestial pole by many over decades.  Yet Bulma, you are so brainwashed / down the rabbit hole you can’t admit you are wrong! 

I refuse to do it because I'm the only one here making any sacrifices.

Sacrifices?  Since when is putting your claims to the test a sacrifice?

You're wrong.

No, I'm not.
Again, if it was a such a non-issue, you would have admitted it.

The simple fact is you have been caught in a lie and refuse to admit and are now deflecting at all costs because you have run out of excuses.

I'm the only one here making any sacrifices.

No, you aren't.
YOU have CHOSEN to reject the work of others, so YOU need to do it yourself.
e.g. going back to Polaris as an example, you reject countless observations showing the very thing you claim doesn't happen, including the video you provided once you ran out of excuses to dismiss it.
That means anyone else doing it for you would be worthless as you would just reject it.
So if you want the evidence then you need to get it yourself.

And again, no one is forcing to stay here and spout such utter crap.
You are choosing to do that.

If you don't want to defend your pathetic BS, then stop spouting such BS.

For what reason do I have to track a star, where I've explicitly told you at least five times that the movement or nonmovement of Polaris does not affect the FE theory at all.

Because you were so desperate to pretend the north pole was magical and special and south was completely incomparable.
That Sigma Octantis couldn't possibly be the south pole star because it isn't perfectly at the centre, so the south pole is clearly fake; and you were desperate to pretend Polaris was perfectly fixed.
So desperate that you got a video and then proceeded to blatantly lie about it.

Again, you can easily move on by just admitting you repeatedly lied to everyone and that Polaris is not fixed at the north celestial pole and instead appears to trace a small circle around it.

And again, if it really didn't matter, you would happy to admit it and move on.
But deep down you know it really matters to you and you are desperate for Polaris to be magically fixed, so later you can bring up the same pathetic lie to dismiss the south celestial pole yet again.

Sacrifices?  Since when is putting your claims to the test a sacrifice?

Incidentally, do you happen to know what I am working on? A complete revamp of the Bible.

My forte is writing, not drawing maps. Make a Bible of around 1200 pages into just over 300, and edit to make it conform to my personal beliefs? Yeah, I do that. I also occasionally update older books. Or work on coding an RPG. Or do the occasional artwork.

Your bullshit pulls time and energy away from things that I actually want to work on.

The typical world atlas created by RE shills involves an entire team, like most Bibles created by Catholic Deep State, wherein they conceal that Jesus is not in fact the ruler of Earth as of somewhere between 30 and 33 AD, by asking us to wait until a so-called second coming. It has taken over a year of on-and-off work by myself to just do this.
All of these people are paid to make maps, so they do so by the license of the powers that be. You wouldn't even receive training as one if it was suspected that your were a flat Earther, because mapmakers deal in "reality" not "fiction." Then you as I say work with a team to make a 150 page or so Atlas, detailing mountains, lakes, rivers, and valleys. I'm sorry, but I do not know shit about the mountains near Angel Falls or Lake Titicaca. Nor do I give a shit. I do not want to spend hours and days and months of my time trying to redraw something that the establishment media has employed a team of professionals to make a map, then distort it with curves.

I'm not a cartographer. Would you ask a lawyer to make an addition on your house? No. Would you ask your gardener to do open heart surgery? No. Then why expect me to be instantly talented in map making?
Does it mean FE doesn't work? No, it means that I am (1) not a specialist in map making, and (2) have better things to do with the next 40 years of my life, if poor health doesn't claim me before that.

Because you are a Round Earther, I expect an accurate hand drawn globular arc section of Bolivia. What's that? You can't make an accurate map of Bolivia by hand? Neither can I. Kindly fuck off, if all you are going to do is try to draw my attention from projects that I want or am called to do.
Yes, it's a sacrifice. I woke up at 3am this morning. I was done posting stuff by around 8am. That's kinda five hours of acid-reflux or whatever induced insomnia time that I can't get back. If you don't wanna waste your time on this shit, Data picks up the slack. Or JackBlack. You expect me to "prove claims" on your terms by wasting significant amount of time distracted drawing pictures that I wouldn't know were true, because I haven't traveled to those portions of the Earth.  This is not counting chores, watching after crops, or whatever else might take time from projects. "Well, if you haven't traveled to every region of Earth, how can you prove it?" The same way you say you can prove it. I do it by extrapolating general info from what I have seen of the Earth.  And I vaguely remember something strange about traveling in South Africa, like it was easier to travel directly south than east or west.


But we don't need any of that. If we understand that the Earth widens outward (or as Neil deGrasse Tyson himself admits "Earth is 'pear-shaped'")

(also known as "all round Earthers are fucking idiots")
then even maps from NASA like the one above no longer look like a sphere. Now stop distracting me. I need to either get back to my Bible or to playing Breath of the Wild. Whichever is easier on my brain at 10:50pm.  Btw, those really close lines are because I messed up.

Your bullshit pulls time and energy away from things that I actually want to work on.

In that case, save yourself a lot of aggravation and stop arguing with people who will probably never respect your FE belief and work on your bible in peace.  Maybe you should give Eric Dubay's forum a shot (if he even still has one) and see if that bunch is a better fit for you.

You may also want to run some of your bible revisions past some actual Bible scholars to see how many of them you're likely to piss off.

(

Incidentally,

Bulma.  Why are you brainwashed into believing the lie Polaris is static, fixed, and sits on the northern celestial pole.  When Polaris circles the northern celestial pole.  Where you pathologically lie about provided evidence and uses that Polaris is offset from the northern celestial pole.

Last night.  Picture taken on Aug 2, at 9:39 pm



Image info..




The final picture was taken Aug 3, at 12:54 AM



Image info…



Created a gif that is a flash comparator between the two photos.  Just simple not faked photos of the night sky hours apart.



Bulma.  Polaris quite clearly moved a significant amount as the night passed. 


Between those two photos, I took a series of over 300 photos.  I excluded photos with clouds and light trails from aircraft.  I stacked those photos and created this image.



Bulma.  Polaris clearly circles the northern celestial pole.

It’s proven.

It’s known.

The offset of Polaris is used to correctly align mounts for astronomy and astrophotography. 

Bulma.  You claim you aren’t brainwashed.  You claim in believing in the scientific method and what can be proven.  It’s been proven Polaris circles the northern celestial pole by many over decades.  Yet Bulma, you are so brainwashed / down the rabbit hole you can’t admit you are wrong! 

Incidentally, do you happen to know what I am working on? A complete revamp of the Bible.

i.e. more dishonest, delusional BS.

Your bullshit pulls time and energy away from things that I actually want to work on.

You mean YOUR BS.
No one is forcing you to come here and spout your pathetic BS.

The typical world atlas created by RE shills involves an entire team

You mean created by honest people, that care about reality.
But FEers have been around longer, and could have easily made one if Earth was flat. But they haven't.
Instead, we have lying scum like you pretending 2 contradictory maps are both valid representations of the flat Earth, when if Earth was flat, it should just be a scaled down copy of Earth.

You expect me to "prove claims" on your terms

We expect you to justify your pathetic BS, on logical terms. Terms you can't show fault with.
And YOU are in part responsible for these terms, because of your wilful rejection of so much evidence that shows you are wrong.
For example, the evidence YOU PROVIDED which clearly shows Polaris circling the north celestial pole.
Where because it shows you are wrong, you reject it as fake and lie about it.

If you wanted to act like a sane individual, you would accept the mountains of evidence, admit you are wrong and move on, and you wouldn't have this massive burden.
But you have chosen to reject all the evidence that shows you are wrong, so the burden is on you to go collect it.

Now stop with the pathetic BS and either defend your lies or admit to everyone that you repeatedly lied about Polaris.

Again, if is as irrelevant as you claim, this should be trivial for you to do.

But we both know deep down you are desperate for Polaris to be magically fixed.

No, you expect me to fritter away time on large projects.

Tell me that I haven't done enough, that I haven't made a "perfect" model. I'm afraid that I know better than anyone where perfect leads. You can take or leave my arguments. They're what I have time for.

Since you don't like or respect anything that I have to say, I am under no obligation to give you anything. That is how it works. Actions have consequences. I am an insanely driven person who if I have a good reason to do something, will attack it with my full energy. I have written books that are close to 500,000 words before,  and no they weren't all really short words.

But to people who consistently call me a delusional POS, and would be happier if I were dead than alive? You get my dog food-tier effort. And you are expected to eat that dog food. And like it. Because I know that no proof is gonna convince you.

In that case, save yourself a lot of aggravation and stop arguing with people who will probably never respect your FE belief and work on your bible in peace.  Maybe you should give Eric Dubay's forum a shot (if he even still has one) and see if that bunch is a better fit for you.

That's not how this works. Round Earth wins if everyone moves to an echo chamber, and they shut that chamber down. Flat Earth wins in any real debate, because its opponent is built on lies that don't add up.