WHY would the government trick us?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 06, 2024, 08:24:51 PM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on September 06, 2024, 06:40:39 AM

And you think we are tiny specks in an uncaring universe that is gradually expanding until all heat dies. God could indeed juggle an entire system of worlds. Or he could make one world that is the universe, and have it be much bigger than RE would have us believe.



Something like that. Could God make Earth bigger than we know about? Yes. But the point of your enormous universe is not to make new frontiers for humans to explore, but to convince us we are tiny.



Even the course of the Earth on RE is basically saying that instead of being content to stay put and be down-to-earth, the Earth drifts aimlessly in a circle. If you saw something going in the same path over and over, your first thought should be "hamster wheel". Things with purpose know what they are, and where they stand. They aren't pulled around by other things, they are leaders and other things follow them. The Earth in RE is shifted from master of its destiny to a servant, just as the RE globalist governments want all of us to be servants. Rather than hunting and fishing in the land God gave us, we are supposed to eat bugs to "fight climate change."
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/02/how-insects-positively-impact-climate-change/
The end goal of globalism is no food at all. We are the carbon they wish to get rid of.
https://blog.alor.org/on-eating-bugs-the-globalist-agenda-to-control-food-by-james-reed
The Earth does indeed have a macroverse and microverse. But the universe is Earth. I will however try any food I wish.

Tiny specks is relative. Our solar system could be called a tiny speck compared to other galaxies. A single cell in your body is a speck compared to the size of your body, yet that same cell is a solar system compared to an atom or an electron that makes up that cell.

I'm going to tell you what your big problem is, because I can. You like to picture God as a male figure who looks a lot like jesus, sitting on a throne on a cloud, overlooking your entire flat disc world. That's what you like. That's what you see when you close your eyes and pray, too. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is just your personal preference. It is subjective.

If you want to be objective, god is omnipresent, and the entire physical universe is god's body. Your body is part of his body. You are in his body and God is in yours. Likewise, your consciousness is shared by God. God is within your thoughts and you are within god's thoughts. How could it not be the case? Do you really think you are separate from God?

Think outside the box once in a while and see where it takes you.

Who are you to tell me how I picture Jesus?



More importantly, God's throne is this world. Emmanuel means "God with us." Compared with your notion that God is somehow distantly ruling over an entire universe, the notion that God is looking after a single world that is far larger than your RE, and indeed is part of this world and its people is far more attractive than a universe filled with empty space.

Quote

I hate to break it you you, but you're a tiny speck on an uncaring earth.  Why should being a tiny speck in an uncaring universe make you feel any worse?

Spoken like a true globe Earth nihilist.


You would be impressed by this.

I'd immediately say, "Yeah about that."


Without God, your autonomous spinning globe doesn't work. But more importantly, who wants an autonomous spinning globe, anyway? Only a person who wants the globe to be autonomous.

autonomous /ô-tŏn′ə-məs/
adjective

1. Not controlled by others or by outside forces; independent.
2. Independent in mind or judgment; self-directed.
3. Independent of the laws of another state or government; self-governing.

"We can do it ourselves, Lord, we don't need you."

Oh? How's that working out?

Cuz it seems like the last hundred years while the world got more secular, we've had two World Wars, a Holocaust, communists starve and kill millions of people, senseless isolation, senseless poverty, senseless wars and destruction, and environmentalists claiming they can supply the world with energy. My dad read last night how much land they'd actually need to do it. Nine times the amount of land, of what was it? Ohio, Idaho, and the entirety of New England? Basically, to "save the environment" means utterly bulldozing all trees in existence to make room.

So how is that working out for you? Can I go ahead and say it? "Not well."

It might appeal to you to be in a spinning "globe" in the middle of cold and empty "space." But I don't need any part of that. I have seen how society functioned from reading history.

The world in which we live in is patterned. The universe is patterned. You can also see that this world operates in a hierarchical structure. So does the entire universe.

If God is the entire universe, then it stands to reason, God is hierarchical. This means there are many gods that make up God. You could argue therefore mother earth itself is a God who governs everything on Earth. You could also argue our sun is a God because it governs everything in our solar system, and our earth answers to it.

Just because space is black and empty and cold, doesn't mean it is uninviting or unattractive. It just is.

Don't worry. When you pray, your prayer goes as high as the next tier in the hierarchical ladder from you. If it goes higher then it has to be passed on from the next tier up.

Whats your fuckings hangups about gender. We are all one under god.

Just because space is black and empty and cold, doesn't mean it is uninviting or unattractive. It just is.

On the contrary, outer space is the outer darkness. Where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You want people to believe in a universe where God (if he exists, of course) has his eye focused only very generally on Earth while concentrating on the balance of the cosmos.  Where God (again, if he exists) sits on a distant throne, never to interact with us personally, and there is 
 s  p  a  c e 
 between this world and others.

 And where if I call to complain, the bureaucracy will tell me "Your call is very important to us, please stay on the line." An uncaring Earth as part of an uncaring universe, separated by lifeless empty void.

Nosiree. I do not believe in outer space, and I cannot think of any idea less attractive. I did as a kid. I also believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny. And the Round Earth.

On the contrary, outer space is the outer darkness. Where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

No, that is what you want it to be.

You want people to believe in a universe

I want to believe what the evidence shows is real.
So far there is plentiful evidence for Earth being round, rotating about its axis, orbiting the sun, and space being real.
There is no evidence that shows Earth is flat rather than round, or that it is stationary rather than moving.
Likewise, there is no evidence for your imaginary fiend.

Nosiree. I do not believe in outer space, and I cannot think of any idea less attractive.

i.e. you are terrified of reality and cling to a fantasy to try to escape reality that you can't handle.

One thing that is almost a given. Those who seek to find evil often does. Those who follow the Truth knows these symbols mean nothing.

Funny and unsurprising youve yet to show a GOP/ maga polciy that aligns with WWJD policy...



How many of those churches send money to your dad?

Are we able to name a parallel policy between trump amd Jesus?

Quote

Just because space is black and empty and cold, doesn't mean it is uninviting or unattractive. It just is.

On the contrary, outer space is the outer darkness. Where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You want people to believe in a universe where God (if he exists, of course) has his eye focused only very generally on Earth while concentrating on the balance of the cosmos.  Where God (again, if he exists) sits on a distant throne, never to interact with us personally, and there is 
 s  p  a  c e 
 between this world and others.

 And where if I call to complain, the bureaucracy will tell me "Your call is very important to us, please stay on the line." An uncaring Earth as part of an uncaring universe, separated by lifeless empty void.

Nosiree. I do not believe in outer space, and I cannot think of any idea less attractive. I did as a kid. I also believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny. And the Round Earth.

Where can you go in this universe to escape from yourself? You are as important as the nearest planet and the most seemingly inconsequential blade of grass bending in the wind.

Did you know Albert Einstein was a big believer in God? All he wanted was to understand the universe around us as created by God.

Running and hiding in your flat earth mind prison, will not change the world around you.

Einstein stated that "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

Einstein also wrote, "I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."


A recognition of the beauty of nature, its laws and even its absolute indifference, was always a release to me, to be set free of the judgemental tyranny an Abrahamic god imposed, far more police state than a loving relationship, was to me, freedom.
I do worship, but not through obligation or coercion, just through the joy of living (I’m lucky) and the realisation that I’m here and gone in the cosmic blink of an eye, so enjoy! 

Einstein also wrote, "I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."

We have the ability to continuously monitor people. And drug people.  In allowing freedom of not being continuously monitored and controlled by drugs, is the state ultimately responsible for all crimes?


Allowing freedom or free will to prove yourself is equated to being responsible for crime? 

Surely free will is an illusion if god made you the way you are?
And as the most heinous crime seems to be not having faith in it, while it hides in a book and doesn’t periodically walk across the earth to announce itself, belief in a personal god is bizarre.

God is truly asexual in that He is a He but She expects you to worship and mind read why Shes mad at you.





Also i am a christian.
Haha
People are weird like that.

Surely free will is an illusion if god made you the way you are?
And as the most heinous crime seems to be not having faith in it, while it hides in a book and doesn’t periodically walk across the earth to announce itself, belief in a personal god is bizarre.

That wasn’t the question. 

The reality is we do have freewill.  Or at least some have the will to commit petty crimes.  Others to drunk drive where people are killed through impaired driving. Others the will to join or participates in gang violence and rule. 

That is reality.

What you are trying to change the subject. 


We have the ability to continuously monitor people. And drug people. 

Something explored in the movie Equilibrium

Equilibrium

In an oppressive future where all forms of feeling are illegal, a man in charge of enforcing the law rises to overthrow the system and state.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/

We can place breathalyzers in cars.  People and vehicles can be tracked through cellphones and cellphone technology.

We can do away with paper money and use digital currency that can log every purchase.

The question. 

In allowing freedom of not being continuously monitored and controlled by drugs, is the state ultimately responsible for all crimes?


Allowing freedom or free will to prove yourself is equated to being responsible for crime?

This was the question you are dodging.

God is truly asexual in that He is a He but She expects you to worship and mind read why Shes mad at you.

God is a spiritual being where sexuality and gender do not apply.

exactly
he made us in his image
male and female capturing both.



but my point was more to the "hides in a book" and "free will"
you can choose whatever you want, and the wife will still be mad if you choose wrong, even though she said "it's fine, do whatever you want."

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on Today at 07:51:33 AM

Surely free will is an illusion if god made you the way you are?
And as the most heinous crime seems to be not having faith in it, while it hides in a book and doesn’t periodically walk across the earth to announce itself, belief in a personal god is bizarre.

We have the ability to continuously monitor people. And drug people.  In allowing freedom of not being continuously monitored and controlled by drugs, is the state ultimately responsible for all crimes?

No. The government did not create us, nor do they have absolute control, nor do they know exactly what people would do.
They are limited beings.

Conversely, your evil fiend allegedly made everyone, with full knowledge of what they would do, has a plan for the world which everything goes according to, and is omnipotent and omniscient.

But how about this as a comparison - If a cop watched someone being brutally raped and murdered yet does nothing about it, does that cop not ultimately share the blame?
Your god allegedly is meant to know it is happening, and could easily intervene to stop it, but chooses not to do so.

Your god is an evil POS, that no decent human being would ever worship except out of brainwashing, cowardice or stupidity.

Allowing freedom or free will to prove yourself is equated to being responsible for crime?

If I decided to give children free will and put them in a room with limited food to see how long they would be peaceful for, with me watching the entire thing, and one decided to kill another, would I be responsible for that?

Again, your god is meant to know everything. So what is there to prove? Surely God is already meant to know the answer.
Even police, if they know of a crime being planned, will often act to stop that crime and still arrest the people for it.
e.g. if they can show people were planning an act of terror and can stop it, they will try to, rather than let so many people die.

But again, as your god allegedly knows what people will do, it choosing to create those people makes it responsible.

As for "free will" there is a philosophical question of if we do have it.
But as a comparison, if a person decides to have a child, and then does not raise that child appropriately, and while still a child it decides to break things, that parent is held responsible. There has now even been a case of parents being held responsible for their child shooting up a school. If a parent was just sitting there watching their kid beat up another kid, they would be held responsible.

If you create a being with free will, and allow it to harm others, you are responsible. Especially if you are an omnipotent being that could act to stop it.

Free will is not the get out of jail free card you want to pretend it is. Your god is still an evil POS.

We can place breathalyzers in cars.  People and vehicles can be tracked through cellphones and cellphone technology.

We can do away with paper money and use digital currency that can log every purchase.

The question. 

In allowing freedom of not being continuously monitored and controlled by drugs, is the state ultimately responsible for all crimes?

No.
Because the government are limited beings, that would be overthrown if they tried to impose such a thing.
Especially given you can't just control people with drugs.

Allowing freedom or free will to prove yourself is equated to being responsible for crime?

No, creating things which go on to cause harm which you could stop but choose not to do so makes you responsible.

As another comparison, it would be like if someone made a bomb, but instead of a timer it used a random number generator to create the illusion of free will.
Would the person who made the bomb be responsible for it when it blows up and kills people, or would it just be the bomb?

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on September 13, 2024, 07:51:33 AM

Surely free will is an illusion if god made you the way you are?
And as the most heinous crime seems to be not having faith in it, while it hides in a book and doesn’t periodically walk across the earth to announce itself, belief in a personal god is bizarre.

That wasn’t the question. 

The reality is we do have freewill.  Or at least some have the will to commit petty crimes.  Others to drunk drive where people are killed through impaired driving. Others the will to join or participates in gang violence and rule. 

That is reality.

What you are trying to change the subject. 


We have the ability to continuously monitor people. And drug people. 

Something explored in the movie Equilibrium

Quote

Equilibrium

In an oppressive future where all forms of feeling are illegal, a man in charge of enforcing the law rises to overthrow the system and state.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/

We can place breathalyzers in cars.  People and vehicles can be tracked through cellphones and cellphone technology.

We can do away with paper money and use digital currency that can log every purchase.

The question. 

In allowing freedom of not being continuously monitored and controlled by drugs, is the state ultimately responsible for all crimes?


Allowing freedom or free will to prove yourself is equated to being responsible for crime?

This was the question you are dodging.

Is that the reality?

You think you have free will? We live our lives thinking we have free will.

But do we really?

Can you tell me exactly where the next thought that comes into your head, comes from? Can you stop your next thought?

Can you tell me where your talents come from? Where your desires come from? Where  all your interests come from? Can you tell me  why one thing inspires you and another thing does not?

What if I told you, every thought you have, every decision you make, and every event that happens to you in your life was already known before you were born and before you were even conceived?

If an entity on a distant planet in a far distant galaxy had a powerful enough telescope, that entity could select you as a case study on Earth, and view your entire life in the many light years it may take for the light bouncing off our planet, to reach that far distant planet.

That control you think you have over your life, with the power of free will, is but a necessary illusion.

You think you have free will? We live our lives thinking we have free will.

But do we really?

That depends.  How do you define free will?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 13, 2024, 10:47:58 PM

You think you have free will? We live our lives thinking we have free will.

But do we really?

That depends.  How do you define free will?

The usual way. Is there any other way to define free will?

Most people think we all do, until you sit down and really think about it.

The usual way. Is there any other way to define free will?

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.  Is free will binary (either you have it or you don't) or are there varying degrees depending on circumstances?

Most people think we all do, until you sit down and really think about it.

Do they think about it and come to their conclusion on their own or was it all predetermined?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 15, 2024, 10:18:39 AM

The usual way. Is there any other way to define free will?

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.  Is free will binary (either you have it or you don't) or are there varying degrees depending on circumstances?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 15, 2024, 10:18:39 AM

Most people think we all do, until you sit down and really think about it.

Do they think about it and come to their conclusion on their own or was it all predetermined?

For the purpose of our own lives as human beings, I think it is not a binary black or white answer. That it is or isn't. It is grey and there is truth in both.

What I mean is, at the human level, we can recognize our decisions and life circumstances are shaped by both our free will and external circumstances beyond our control.

What I think Data is digging his heels in about, is the suggestion, social responsibility can be reduced or absolved if we recognize the impact of external circumstances beyond our control.

Here's a newsflash: When a criminal is being sentenced in front of either a Magistrate or Judge for any particular crime, they will take into consideration the external forces which likely have shaped that person or contributed to a decision they made, when passing judgment. External circumstances beyond our control are already recognized in our society.

Quote from: markjo on September 15, 2024, 10:33:33 AM

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 15, 2024, 10:18:39 AM

The usual way. Is there any other way to define free will?

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.  Is free will binary (either you have it or you don't) or are there varying degrees depending on circumstances?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 15, 2024, 10:18:39 AM

Most people think we all do, until you sit down and really think about it.

Do they think about it and come to their conclusion on their own or was it all predetermined?

For the purpose of our own lives as human beings, I think it is not a binary black or white answer. That it is or isn't. It is grey and there is truth in both.

What I mean is, at the human level, we can recognize our decisions and life circumstances are shaped by both our free will and external circumstances beyond our control.

What I think Data is digging his heels in about, is the suggestion, social responsibility can be reduced or absolved if we recognize the impact of external circumstances beyond our control.

Here's a newsflash: When a criminal is being sentenced in front of either a Magistrate or Judge for any particular crime, they will take into consideration the external forces which likely have shaped that person or contributed to a decision they made, when passing judgment. External circumstances beyond our control are already recognized in our society.

I would say what Data is doing is quite clear.
He saw a quote saying God bad because humans.
He needs to pretend God good, so comes up with excuses, using the typical free will excuse.
And rather than just leaving it is "God allows free will, so he isn't responsible when murderers that he created and knows will kill people go and kill people which he could easily stop, or when rapists that he created and knows will rape people go and rape people which he could stop; it is the bad human's fault"; he instead decides to try comparing God to a government, where a government stepping in to control people to stop them committing crimes would be seen as tyrannical.


Even though the comment was more on the stupidity of humanity.
I think the story of the Garden of Eden is a much better example or the extreme incompetence/maliciousness of God; where Adam and Eve were created with no knowledge of good and evil, and then God punished them for doing something they could not possible know was wrong.

What I think Data is digging his heels in about,

I just threw something out for discussion.

I you think allowing free will and then punishing people because they choose evil is evil in its self.

 Then.

 In a reality where the state can track people.  Where the state could control people through drugs.  Something explored in the movie equilibrium.

The question was this.  With the state allowing free will instead of controlling it with tracking and drugs, is the state “evil”.  Or at a minimum, complicate in crimes. 

 God punished

I accept you don’t believe in god.  The discussion is the state. We can agree the state exists? 

 Should the state do more to stop free will if free will leads to crime and punishment.

I think the states job is to enact laws that the people want, the problem being that states are usually protective of their own position and will push for more power, and people can be stupid.

Take surveillance, the state watching and recording everything under the guise of, if you are doing nothing wrong you have no worries, may seem okay until that government becomes dictatorial, and eventually that is where “we are watching you” ends.

At the other end, all laws curtail freedoms, and rightly so, inhibiting the right to beat the shit out of someone that insults you or looks at your partner, is a necessity for a civilisation to function, getting the balance right means accepting there will be some crime and some loss of freedom.

I you think allowing free will and then punishing people because they choose evil is evil in its self.

No, creating beings with free will, with the knowledge they will harm others and cause others to suffer, then sitting idly by as they make others suffer when you can easily intervene to stop it, is evil.

In a reality where the state can track people.  Where the state could control people through drugs.  Something explored in the movie equilibrium.

The state is not omnipotent nor omniscient. It cannot control people. It can't just magically intervene and stop a rapist right before they rape someone.

But again, why they know a crime is going to be committed, they try to stop it. Not doing so is negligence, which would make them evil.
And when someone is deemed to be a danger to society, they are imprisoned.

And that is different to entirely eliminating free will.

The question was this.

In response to a quote pointing out God is evil.
Stop trying to pretend free will is an excuse that means your god isn't evil.

As the quote says, the only excuse is non-existence.

Should the state do more to stop free will if free will leads to crime and punishment.

Not unless it can become omniscient and omnipotent.
It isn't about removing free will entirely. It is about stopping it when it causes other people harm.

And in some cases it should do more.
e.g. look at all the crime in America where anyone can get a gun.

The theme of the state stopping murder for instance before it occurs, was explored in the Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report. But that system was flawed. It also raised the issue of people being put away for murders that they technically hadn't committed, even though there was a fair chance they would have, if the state hadn't stepped in.

People run and hide from the bad days in their lives, and never want to experience pain and bad days. But the truth is, it's the pain and the bad days that make us enjoy our good days even more. Make us appreciate our good times even more.

What I'm saying is evil is a necessary evil. Without it, we wouldn't be able to even recognize good. You can't have good without evil no matter how hard you try.

God is neither good nor bad. God is just God. God created duality which includes light and dark and good and evil.

Remember when you are praying for something good in your life, "Thine" will be done, not "my" will be done.

People run and hide from the bad days in their lives, and never want to experience pain and bad days. But the truth is, it's the pain and the bad days that make us enjoy our good days even more. Make us appreciate our good times even more.

What I'm saying is evil is a necessary evil. Without it, we wouldn't be able to even recognize good. You can't have good without evil no matter how hard you try.

God is neither good nor bad. God is just God. God created duality which includes light and dark and good and evil.

And I entirely disagree. You don't need to be raped or beaten or so on to know what good it is to not be raped or beaten.
You don't need to have cancer or natural disasters and so on to know what good is.

That is just a very pessimistic way to look at the world to try to explain why there is "evil".

It also contradicts the idea of many religious beliefs where there is an afterlife which is paradise.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 02:31:41 PM

People run and hide from the bad days in their lives, and never want to experience pain and bad days. But the truth is, it's the pain and the bad days that make us enjoy our good days even more. Make us appreciate our good times even more.

What I'm saying is evil is a necessary evil. Without it, we wouldn't be able to even recognize good. You can't have good without evil no matter how hard you try.

God is neither good nor bad. God is just God. God created duality which includes light and dark and good and evil.

And I entirely disagree. You don't need to be raped or beaten or so on to know what good it is to not be raped or beaten.
You don't need to have cancer or natural disasters and so on to know what good is.

That is just a very pessimistic way to look at the world to try to explain why there is "evil".

It also contradicts the idea of many religious beliefs where there is an afterlife which is paradise.

Pessimistic way to view "evil"? How so? I would say realistic and optimistic. Evil gives the good something to strive against. In fact, life is good and evil. They are intertwined.

Do I really need to point out evil and good are both subjective - two sides of the same coin?Does heaven sound like a good place to you? It sounds like a hell of a boring dull place to me. I emphasize "hell".

Can you offer a better explanation for evil and a better way to view it?

I think you just dont like seeing the word, "God" because you are an atheist.

Can you offer an explanation for duality in this world?

You dont like that life is still full of mysteries, do you? You like to think you have life all figured out.

I know it is your inherent nature to try and dominate all debates including those in which you are in over your head. But in this instance, this topic is off-topic, and I will only address it with you in the philosophy section of the forum, if that is what you really want.

I know it is your inherent nature to try and dominate all debates including those in which you are in over your head. But in this instance, this topic is off-topic, and I will only address it with you in the philosophy section of the forum, if that is what you really want.

You mean you are upset that I don't agree with your religion so want to pretend I am in over my head?

You also seemed to be quite fine running off on an off topic tangent, yet now suddenly want to stop.
Why?

Pessimistic way to view "evil"? How so? I would say realistic and optimistic.

No, a pessimistic way to view the world.
And one which leads to people wanting evil to remain for various reasons.

A much healthier way to view it is to accept it as part of the world, without any intelligence behind it and without magic to stop it.
A natural disaster isn't some evil god deciding to make people die so other people know how good the world is. It is simply a result of mindless nature.
It isn't evil, it just is.

And those people who do evil, are just people. People who can be stopped, and we can strive to shift the view of people to get fewer evil people.

I would say that is far healthier than saying someone getting raped or murdered, or dying of disease and so on is a good thing as it lets us know how good the world is.

Evil gives the good something to strive against.

Why do you need that?
Why is that a good thing?

Do I really need to point out evil and good are both subjective - two sides of the same coin?Does heaven sound like a good place to you? It sounds like a hell of a boring dull place to me. I emphasize "hell".

There is a difference between good and evil being subjective, vs different people having different opinions.
You finding something boring doesn't make it evil.
Someone forcing you to sit through it might be, depending on what it is and why.

I think you just dont like seeing the word, "God" because you are an atheist.

No, I just like calling out BS when I see it, which includes your imaginary fiend.

Can you offer an explanation for duality in this world?

Because lots of things have opposites, but not all.
Just what do you think there is to explain?

You like to think you have life all figured out.

No, I don't, and nothing I have said suggests that.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

I know it is your inherent nature to try and dominate all debates including those in which you are in over your head. But in this instance, this topic is off-topic, and I will only address it with you in the philosophy section of the forum, if that is what you really want.

You mean you are upset that I don't agree with your religion so want to pretend I am in over my head?

You also seemed to be quite fine running off on an off topic tangent, yet now suddenly want to stop.
Why?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

Pessimistic way to view "evil"? How so? I would say realistic and optimistic.

No, a pessimistic way to view the world.
And one which leads to people wanting evil to remain for various reasons.

A much healthier way to view it is to accept it as part of the world, without any intelligence behind it and without magic to stop it.
A natural disaster isn't some evil god deciding to make people die so other people know how good the world is. It is simply a result of mindless nature.
It isn't evil, it just is.

And those people who do evil, are just people. People who can be stopped, and we can strive to shift the view of people to get fewer evil people.

I would say that is far healthier than saying someone getting raped or murdered, or dying of disease and so on is a good thing as it lets us know how good the world is.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

Evil gives the good something to strive against.

Why do you need that?
Why is that a good thing?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

Do I really need to point out evil and good are both subjective - two sides of the same coin?Does heaven sound like a good place to you? It sounds like a hell of a boring dull place to me. I emphasize "hell".

There is a difference between good and evil being subjective, vs different people having different opinions.
You finding something boring doesn't make it evil.
Someone forcing you to sit through it might be, depending on what it is and why.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

I think you just dont like seeing the word, "God" because you are an atheist.

No, I just like calling out BS when I see it, which includes your imaginary fiend.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

Can you offer an explanation for duality in this world?

Because lots of things have opposites, but not all.
Just what do you think there is to explain?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on September 16, 2024, 11:17:16 PM

You like to think you have life all figured out.

No, I don't, and nothing I have said suggests that.

Are you sure you addressed every single word I typed? Are you certain you've contradicted every single word? I'd hate to think you missed pissing all over something I typed. That would just be slack of you.