The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2024, 07:52:03 PM »


Would this convince you?

Or are you so arrogant that you refuse to even consider for a moment that you could be mistaken?

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Are Jeranism, Witsit and Acosta shills?

Dubay mentions some of them by name as being shills. Also, this video above shows a midnight sun but the earlier video does not. As I believe in a flat Earth at outward concentric plane, the early video is more plausible.

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This isn't your dear hunting forum.

The animal is spelled "deer."

 "Dear" is your girlfriend.

If you don't take in anything about being wrong about flat Earth, you ought to at least learn that your spelling is incorrect.

Auto correction on spelling is a constant battle, or maybe I was reminding ol mate this isnt his girlfriend hunting forum.

Yes, I am so arrogant on this, to consider I could be mistaken. I make to-scale models.

And no, that stupid video by Eric would not convince me of anything, except he is either a liar or an idiot.

I have already explained how the 24 hour sun in Antarctica can prove the Earth is a globe. It is an experiment and not simply a single observation.

Eric Dubay is wrong and water is wet.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2024, 05:52:15 AM »


If you're looking to equate most flat earthers with a class of people, I'd be looking at highest educational level.

You hear all the time that people with degrees in this and that are flat earthers, but I have my doubts about that. I mean, look at the self proclaimed flat earthers on this site for example. Do you seriously think any of them hold a degree in anything?


Leaving present company aside, youtubers and media personalities that identify as FE are obviously deficient in understanding of science and nature (provide a counterexample, anyone).  They are a broadly similar group to creationists and other pseudoscience followers.

Eric Dubay spends his waking hours at the library. Now I dunno his degree level, but he's basically proved that libraries work.

He is apparently also responsible for reprinting many books that were almost gone.

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Auto correction on spelling is a constant battle, or maybe I was reminding ol mate this isnt his girlfriend hunting forum.

That's a "learn to turn the function off" problem. My Kindle only occasionally auto-corrects, usually just showing results.

And all of us have trouble with homophones.

But the point you need to remember is that very few flat Earthers escaped the public education system. All of them do hold degrees, even if only a bachelor's degree. Why am I so certain of this? Because it's like that famous graph showing religious people as stupid. The 0% percent atheist are at 70 to 90 IQ (there are several things wrong with this graph, especially that IQ doesn't go above 110), while the highest on the scale was about 15% atheism (that is religious yet questioning). In other words, those who know both information for something and against it are far more informed than those who learned what they were taught at a young age, and never deviated.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7239797/
A researcher of this graph later concluded that it was Jensen's effect, and that a more accurate determination would be autism vs schizophrenia, that atheists have poor verbal skill like autistic ppl and religious are essentially high functioning schizotypals. Essentially, they had the same brain patterns of someone speaking to people they knew were real, while people speaking to Santa Claus did not.

Sorry, I got off topic. The point is, dumb sheep tend to be at the lowest levels, where people who question things are at least average in education. So very few flat Earthers do not have a degree,  as college dropouts are usually stuck working full-time at some terrible job to just make ends meet, and do not have time to research anything. This in turn means that most Flat Earthers are former Round Earthers, rejected the idea, and now read extensively either at chatrooms, libraries, or both.

So these to-scale models. You need to make one with the following features:

As you can see from this model, the sun isn't still on a track, it moves ahead around the galaxy, while planets and moons spiral vertically about it. The problem is that this model starts to fall apart because of very simple rules of what you call gravity. You will abruptly find out that despite   your best attempts to build a track where objects spiral about a sun moving ahead on track, one of three things will happen.
1. If it's based on a bunch of metal tracks to get the planets and moons to spiral, this will usually hold back the forward motion of the sun.
2. If it's based on some sort of unbalanced weight, it runs into the same problem as the overbalanced wheel.
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2018/12/03/six_perpetual_motion_machines_and_why_none_of_them_work.html
usually one or all things connected to the sun wil dangle near the ground instead of doing any spiraling.
3. Most importantly, there is too much attached, and something will snap off. Especially given that the speed that the sun is supposed to go around the galaxy is akin to running. You'll also need to make huge model with stars and planets in the way of this track.

The simple model of Earth rotating around the sun with other planets might be great in terms of how it works (isn't that interesting though, a flat solar system seems to work, while one based on vertical spirals in 3D will not). But this model isn't accurate to the sun's motion around the galaxy.

Water is wet. It's also predominantly flat. If we're gonna do "experiments" that are basically just observations, go to the sink. Get a glass of water from the sink. Using a level, make certain you are not currently on slanted ground or in a houseboat. Then using a protractor or the level again, measure the "curve" of the water. There should be no curve. 70% of Earth is water, and 100% of this water lays flat when there are no waves. This means Earth is at least 70% flat. The laws of geometry don't allow the other 30% to curve into a sphere.

The reason you don't believe is because you trust these models. So I'm gonna assign you a model that you will fail to make, based on the 3D motion of the sun around the galaxy. Be sure to attach as many planets, moons, and stars, so that when it fails, it does so disastrously.

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JackBlack

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2024, 12:06:04 PM »
Eric Dubay spends his waking hours at the library. Now I dunno his degree level, but he's basically proved that libraries work.
Really? He seems to spend his waking hours doing whatever he can to hide from the truth.
If he is doing that at a library, he is proof that libraries are not a magical solution which will just magically make people smart and knowledgeable; given how often he is entirely wrong with his claims.


But the point you need to remember is that very few flat Earthers escaped the public education system.
And they are an example of the failure of that system.

All of them do hold degrees, even if only a bachelor's degree.
Pure nonsense.
And if they do, it clearly isn't in science.

Why am I so certain of this? Because it's like that famous graph showing religious people as stupid.
And yet FEers are more likely to be religious.
And FEism has that same religious mentality.

Sorry, I got off topic. The point is, dumb sheep tend to be at the lowest levels
i.e. the FEers.

So these to-scale models. You need to make one with the following features:
You failing to understand how models work doesn't mean we need to make it with those features.

The problem is that this model starts to fall apart because of very simple rules of what you call gravity.
Yet you can't explain why and instead just spout nonsense.

1. If it's based on a bunch of metal tracks to get the planets and moons to spiral, this will usually hold back the forward motion of the sun.
Why?
What magic holds back the sun?

2. If it's based on some sort of unbalanced weight
If you wanted it to move itself, you would likely have a powered model, one which uses batteries or plugs into mains power, or just a hand cranck to make it move.

3. Most importantly, there is too much attached, and something will snap off.
Which is why cars travelling down a highway, trains travelling down a track and planes flying through the air sponteously fall apart for no reason. Oh wait, they don't.

Especially given that the speed that the sun is supposed to go around the galaxy
Is quite irrelevant.
Have you seen what that scaled down speed is?
More important, do you yet understand that speed is not an issue?

The simple model of Earth rotating around the sun with other planets might be great in terms of how it works ...  But this model isn't accurate to the sun's motion around the galaxy.
And all it takes to complete it is to MOVE that simple model.

a flat solar system seems to work, while one based on vertical spirals in 3D will not
Only if you are a sheep that doesn't think about it.

Water is wet. It's also predominantly flat.
"predominately flat"?
Why not try saying that more honestly.
In the small scale experiments you run you cannot tell the difference.

Why not try a larger scale experiment, like looking at a distant object over a lake, where we observe the bottom hidden by the water, clearly showing it is curved?

If we're gonna do "experiments" that are basically just observations, go to the sink. Get a glass of water from the sink. Using a level, make certain you are not currently on slanted ground or in a houseboat. Then using a protractor or the level again, measure the "curve" of the water.
And how accurate and precise is that protractor?
You are using a glass.
A glass which is known to have issues with surface tension at the edge, which means you already lose a significant portion of the glass.
So lets say you end up with 5 cm that is usable.
For an Earth with a circumference of 40 000 km, that would equate to an angle of 0.00000045 degrees from start to end.
Where can I find such a magically accurate and precise protractor?

There should be no curve. 70% of Earth is water, and 100% of this water lays flat when there are no waves.
Then why does all the evidence that can tell one way or the other show otherwise?

You setting up an experiment where you cannot tell if it is flat or curved is entirely useless.

You may as well go tell us to get a basketball, then put on a blindfold so we can't see it, proclaim that we can't see the curve of the basketball, so that means it is flat.
That is basically what you are doing now.

The reason you don't believe is because you trust these models.
No, the reason I don't believe your BS is because I'm not a sheep. I can actually think about things rather than just accepting what the FE prophets tell me.
That means when I see such a crappy experiment I can think about what results are expected for each model, and then make a judgement on if it is possible to distinguish the results.
Unless you have a magical protractor that can accurately measure down to 0.00000045 degrees, your experiment is useless and cannot tell the difference.
Meanwhile, large scale experiments with the horizon and how the level water obscures objects from view clearly demonstrates water is curved, because at that point you would be able to tell the difference, and we see the results expected for curvature.

So I'm gonna assign you a model that you will fail to make
i.e. you have no interest in the truth and just want those who don't accept your baseless claims to fail.

Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2024, 12:39:30 PM »


If you're looking to equate most flat earthers with a class of people, I'd be looking at highest educational level.

You hear all the time that people with degrees in this and that are flat earthers, but I have my doubts about that. I mean, look at the self proclaimed flat earthers on this site for example. Do you seriously think any of them hold a degree in anything?


Leaving present company aside, youtubers and media personalities that identify as FE are obviously deficient in understanding of science and nature (provide a counterexample, anyone).  They are a broadly similar group to creationists and other pseudoscience followers.

Eric Dubay spends his waking hours at the library. Now I dunno his degree level, but he's basically proved that libraries work.

He is apparently also responsible for reprinting many books that were almost gone.

Quote
Auto correction on spelling is a constant battle, or maybe I was reminding ol mate this isnt his girlfriend hunting forum.

That's a "learn to turn the function off" problem. My Kindle only occasionally auto-corrects, usually just showing results.

And all of us have trouble with homophones.

But the point you need to remember is that very few flat Earthers escaped the public education system. All of them do hold degrees, even if only a bachelor's degree. Why am I so certain of this? Because it's like that famous graph showing religious people as stupid. The 0% percent atheist are at 70 to 90 IQ (there are several things wrong with this graph, especially that IQ doesn't go above 110), while the highest on the scale was about 15% atheism (that is religious yet questioning). In other words, those who know both information for something and against it are far more informed than those who learned what they were taught at a young age, and never deviated.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7239797/
A researcher of this graph later concluded that it was Jensen's effect, and that a more accurate determination would be autism vs schizophrenia, that atheists have poor verbal skill like autistic ppl and religious are essentially high functioning schizotypals. Essentially, they had the same brain patterns of someone speaking to people they knew were real, while people speaking to Santa Claus did not.

Sorry, I got off topic. The point is, dumb sheep tend to be at the lowest levels, where people who question things are at least average in education. So very few flat Earthers do not have a degree,  as college dropouts are usually stuck working full-time at some terrible job to just make ends meet, and do not have time to research anything. This in turn means that most Flat Earthers are former Round Earthers, rejected the idea, and now read extensively either at chatrooms, libraries, or both.

So these to-scale models. You need to make one with the following features:

As you can see from this model, the sun isn't still on a track, it moves ahead around the galaxy, while planets and moons spiral vertically about it. The problem is that this model starts to fall apart because of very simple rules of what you call gravity. You will abruptly find out that despite   your best attempts to build a track where objects spiral about a sun moving ahead on track, one of three things will happen.
1. If it's based on a bunch of metal tracks to get the planets and moons to spiral, this will usually hold back the forward motion of the sun.
2. If it's based on some sort of unbalanced weight, it runs into the same problem as the overbalanced wheel.
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2018/12/03/six_perpetual_motion_machines_and_why_none_of_them_work.html
usually one or all things connected to the sun wil dangle near the ground instead of doing any spiraling.
3. Most importantly, there is too much attached, and something will snap off. Especially given that the speed that the sun is supposed to go around the galaxy is akin to running. You'll also need to make huge model with stars and planets in the way of this track.

The simple model of Earth rotating around the sun with other planets might be great in terms of how it works (isn't that interesting though, a flat solar system seems to work, while one based on vertical spirals in 3D will not). But this model isn't accurate to the sun's motion around the galaxy.

Water is wet. It's also predominantly flat. If we're gonna do "experiments" that are basically just observations, go to the sink. Get a glass of water from the sink. Using a level, make certain you are not currently on slanted ground or in a houseboat. Then using a protractor or the level again, measure the "curve" of the water. There should be no curve. 70% of Earth is water, and 100% of this water lays flat when there are no waves. This means Earth is at least 70% flat. The laws of geometry don't allow the other 30% to curve into a sphere.

The reason you don't believe is because you trust these models. So I'm gonna assign you a model that you will fail to make, based on the 3D motion of the sun around the galaxy. Be sure to attach as many planets, moons, and stars, so that when it fails, it does so disastrously.

There is a lot to unpackage in your post.

* All my posts are from my mobile phone where my fat finger continuously hits wrong keys, and my phone is forever trying to auto spell correct.

* If Eric Dubay spends most of his waking life in libraries, then I beg to differ on your verdict that libraries work. He must avoid the non-fiction section, specifically science.

* So, what degree do you hold, or what is your highest educational level? I dont hold a degree. My highest educational level is 3/4 of a bachelor degree - Justice Studies.

* Higher tertiary education teaches one thing not taught in primary school - critical thinking.

* So, I would like to see where you get your data or references from, indicating most flat earthers hold bachelor degrees. I am extremely sceptical of this.

* Dumb Sheep - Watch the YouTube video titled, "The ten things all flat earthers say" - because you say them all. You are a sheep to all those flat earth videos you must have watched and now you parrot what they say - almost verbatim.

* Water is wet is obvious - just like Eric Dubay being wrong. Professor Dave took the time to create a youtube video where he debunks each and every one of Eric Dubay's 200 flat earth proofs. Watch that video if you don't believe me.

* I have an Earth / moon to-scale model in my lounge room. It isn't moving, but it is still a to-scale model. I also have a to-scale Sun and Earth model, which is also not moving. It doesn't need to be moving, to be practical.

* I was going to make an Earth / moon to-scale moving model, using a racetrack. The reason is I owned an orrery and didn't like how they do away with to-scale distance between Earth and moon and distance, as well as the elliptical orbit of the moon.

* You can do very cool things with to-scale models. They are very good teaching tools.

* Your suggestion I try and build a physical model of the solar system's orbit around a distant galaxy is possible to a degree, but how practical? Where does it stop? Do you want me to then build a to-scale model of what that galaxy is orbiting around? You don't have to ponder any of this - being a flat earther, do you?

* The reason I don't believe is because I know where the immediate flat earth around me ends, and where the globe earth begins and ends. You don't.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 12:44:23 PM by Smoke Machine »

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2024, 06:12:27 PM »
BULLETS KILL PEOPLE

If your fat finger offends you, cut it off. For it is better to go through life with a bleeding stump hand than to continue misspelling words. Like "skeptical".

Eric Dubay talks about this here.

Yes, he reads nonfiction. In fact, he has read books on the Round Earth. He knows more about Round Earth than you do. So do I, though I mainly read online and watch videos. Libraries do work. They encourage people to discover their own answers. You are a shining example that schools do not work.

I hold a Bachelor Science in History, with minor in Horticulture, which I switched to Religion (turned out, I didn't like Organic Chemistry). I also have taken two extra classes after college: Marketing and Viticulture. I have also taught English as a second language to students in China. Aside from a teacher, few students have attended school as much as I have. I was also assistant librarian for two or three years.

It sounds like you didn't finish college. Should you really be critiquing Flat Earthers on their amount of education? As for how I came up with that, unlike you, I don't have to read other people and get sources from them. I can do my own reasoning:
1. The majority of jobs in America require a college degree. Well, prior to the collapse of the reputations of colleges. Nowadays, hirers no longer care, having seen large amounts of woke globalists exit into the workforce.
2. Flat Earth theory has nothing to do with job prospects, unless you want to talk about it full time, like Eric Dubay.
3. Since most Flat Earthers originally intended to work after education, all of them that could get educated (affording it, etc) did so.
4. Flat Earth is not a matter of being too dumb to understand that the Earth is round. This is something students are taught in the early years of school.
5. Based on this, I can conclude that Flat Earth students were usually Round Earth to start with, and usually Bachelor's degree. Some might have been a two-year degree, but high school dropout is well below the average. A high school dropout would be too busy to spend time thinking about the shape of the Earth. That's an issue of academia.

Tell you what. If you watch the entirety of Tezuka's In The Beginning anime

I will watch your insufferably boring "Ten Things Flat Earthers Say."

Yes yes, Professor Dave. Where he says that "without using science" he can debunk flat Earth.
Science n.
1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
    "new advances in science and technology."
2. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
    "the science of astronomy."
3. A systematic method or body of knowledge in a given area.
    "the science of marketing."

You by definition cannot debunk anything without science.  Science is about knowledge within a discipline. If you don't have knowledge or a discipline, you are functioning at this level.

But while we're on this topic David James "Dave" Farina, graduated the same year as me with the same level of credentials. Bachelor Science in Chemistry. Went on to get a Master's in Organic Chemistry (urgh...) but wimped out and instead got a Science Education degree.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Professor_Dave
He's a woke commie idiot. Atheist, talks about racism and redistribution of wealth, has a degree in teaching not in real science. He couldn't hack it as a real scientist. And what does chemistry have to do with the shape of the Earth? Oh right, nothing. Studying the chemistry of sodium hydroxide has literally nothing to do with the shape of Earth.

They have an article of Eric Dubay rapping in rational wiki.


Water is wet is obvious. So your big proof is "Well, it's obvious, isn't it?" Okay, I'm starting to see why you managed 3/4 of a bachelor degree. Tell me. Are you a lawyer? Did you make the bar exam? What about a paralegal? Or are you just a shiftless person who has a degree, but like me has nothing real to show for it?

So if you tried to move either of these two models, would it break apart? Make a video of you trying to move it.

I don't actually care about your models. Again, it kinda does matter that they actually move, and more importantly since the Earth, moon, sun, Mercury, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto (and their moons) are suspended in space, you need to show me a model where in midair they follow the video.

If you are unable to do this, it is time to donate those to-scale models to thrift.  Models are not good teaching tools. If they do not move and you do not understand why they wouldn't move the way you want them to, they are worthless wastes of space.

I don't have to deal with any of this because I give zero fucks about the supposed galaxy we live in. The Earth in a Flat Earth is the universe, and extends outward beyond the "South Pole". But in answer to your question, the burden of proof is on the one making a claim. You must therefore give a full three-dimensional Milky Way suspended in midair while the sun moves about and carries with it all the planets. Because I don't assert anything about the existence of any of the planets, their moons, the sun or the Milky Way, I don't have to do any of that. But I'll give you this 2D model anyway.

And here's a 3D model sans sun and moon.

This made me laugh. But yeah, models are fantasy.

There's that word that scientists use when they really don't know. You "know," huh. A science textbook talked about how Pasteur debunked Beauchamp and "we now know" that he was wrong. But in The Dream And The Lie of Louis Pasteur, they discussed how Pasteur actually managed to get life to form under certain circumstances. But he buried these results because "only a creator God can make life." And also, because he wanted to close discussion so he would be free to work on his pet projects. Not only can scientists be completely wrong about what they "know" but they can actively lie or suppress such things.

I do not know where the flat Earth around me ends. I am not even certain that it does. I can only see where my horizon ends, and I am not fool enough to pretend that I can measure the distance. For you see, the horizon moves as I move, and there is no tape measure that will address that problem.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 06:29:26 PM by bulmabriefs144 »

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markjo

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2024, 06:55:21 PM »
Eric Dubay talks about this here.
What would it take for me to believe FE?  Simple.  A FE model that explains the change of seasons, sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, solar and lunar eclipses better than the RE model.  I've been here a lot longer than you have and I haven't seen one yet.

He knows more about Round Earth than you do. So do I...
You could have fooled me.

I hold a Bachelor Science in History, with minor in Horticulture, which I switched to Religion (turned out, I didn't like Organic Chemistry). I also have taken two extra classes after college: Marketing and Viticulture.
So you haven't taken any college level physics courses?  That explains a lot.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2024, 09:31:35 PM »
Quote
What would it take for me to believe FE?  Simple.  A FE model that explains the change of seasons, sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, solar and lunar eclipses better than the RE model.  I've been here a lot longer than you have and I haven't seen one yet.

And I'm sure you'd have the same desire to pursue such evidence that an atheist wants to find proof of God.

1. Seasons: the sun moves in a circle overhead from the Tropic of Cancer to Capricon and back.  When the sun is above the equator (northern summer/southern winter), it moves slowly being long hot days in the northern hemisphere. When the sun is below the equator, it speeds up (southern summer/northern winter). The wider the circle, the faster it goes. This tracks. You can repeat this with an ordinary pendulum. Or a swing ride.

2. Set/Rise: Perspective behaves like a dome of angles. Like so.

3. Eclipses: The sun and moon are lights in the sky. A greater and a lesser light (as described in Genesis). It is literally a matter of two lights interfering with each other. The one light acts as a mask for another, as they cross paths.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/constructive-and-destructive-interference.html
A solar eclipse is constructive interference (it's more dangerous to look at a solar eclipse than just sun), while a lunar eclipse is destructive interference (it is safe to look at a lunar eclipse).
So why can't a sphere work?

Look at this picture. On a sphere, when colored lights are focused on said sphere, we should be seeing color inversion whenever light shines on one side of the Earth. This means that if the sun glows red like so, on the opposite side of a Round Earth...

...the sky should be a strong green tone, and the yellow light should show blue in an upward cone. Likewise when the sun is like this...

Color inversion is this (in a different angle tho)

On the other side of Earth, we should see these colors, given a large sun hitting a small sphere like we know Earth is. Doesn't happen.

Oh, and btw. Eric Dubay mentioning that historians have recorded instances where the moon was out during a solar eclipse. So whatever was blocking light, it wasn't the moon.

In the end, I cannot tell you what causes an eclipse, but I can tell you loads about what doesn't cause it!

Lemme guess. "No, I haven't seen an ideal FE model."
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 09:36:39 PM by bulmabriefs144 »

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JackBlack

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2024, 12:20:53 AM »
Yes, he reads nonfiction. In fact, he has read books on the Round Earth.
Yet he acts like someone who has absolutely no idea but pretends to have an idea.
So either he knows so little it isn't funny, or he is intentionally lying to everyone.

So either libraries don't always work, or they have produced a conman.

I can do my own reasoning:
Yet you really seem to suck at it.
Just look at the stupidity you suggested not to long ago.
An experiment that requires you to measure an angle of 0.00000045 degrees.

So you either completely suck at reasoning, being incapable of doing it; you choose not to do it; or your did it and decided to misrepresent it to everyone. Which is it?

2. Flat Earth theory has nothing to do with job prospects, unless you want to talk about it full time, like Eric Dubay.
But it does link to your ability to think critically.
If a job wants someone who is just a sheep that will do what they are told, I'm sure a FEer would be fine.
If a job wants someone who will adhere to regulations rather than getting them sued, then a FEer would likely not be suitable.
If a job wants someone who is capable of thinking critically, then a FEer likely would not be suitable.

4. Flat Earth is not a matter of being too dumb to understand that the Earth is round. This is something students are taught in the early years of school.
No, it is much more than that. It is being too dumb, while thinking you are smarter or otherwise better than so many people.
That you have managed to figure out what has "confounded" so many people; or that you have managed to break free of that "brainwashing".

So if you tried to move either of these two models, would it break apart?
If you try to move a car or a train or plane, do they break apart?

I don't actually care about your models.
Of course you don't. You just care about pretending that the RE is wrong or your fantasy is right.

Models are not good teaching tools.
They are the for the vast majority of people.
But that requires that they understand the purpose of the model, which you clearly don't.

You must therefore give a full three-dimensional Milky Way suspended in midair while the sun moves about and carries with it all the planets.
No, we don't.

But I'll give you this 2D model anyway.
So you demand we give you a fully functioning 3D model, while you give a crappy drawing which explains nothing?

But in The Dream And The Lie of Louis Pasteur
Which you happily accept because it matches your preconceived ideas.

I do not know where the flat Earth around me ends. I am not even certain that it does. I can only see where my horizon ends, and I am not fool enough to pretend that I can measure the distance. For you see, the horizon moves as I move, and there is no tape measure that will address that problem.
And that should be a big sign that it isn't flat, as not flat surface acts like that.

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JackBlack

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Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2024, 12:26:02 AM »
1. Seasons: the sun moves in a circle overhead from the Tropic of Cancer to Capricon and back.  When the sun is above the equator (northern summer/southern winter), it moves slowly being long hot days in the northern hemisphere. When the sun is below the equator, it speeds up (southern summer/northern winter). The wider the circle, the faster it goes. This tracks. You can repeat this with an ordinary pendulum. Or a swing ride.
This only addressed a tiny part of seasons.
It doesn't address things like daylight hours, or even temperature with how hot the southern summer can get.

2. Set/Rise: Perspective behaves like a dome of angles. Like so.
Which requires an infinite distance and makes objects appear to shrink to nothing.
It does NOT magically make them set without even shrinking.

Perspective can't make something sink without making it shrink.

3. Eclipses: The sun and moon are lights in the sky. A greater and a lesser light (as described in Genesis). It is literally a matter of two lights interfering with each other. The one light acts as a mask for another, as they cross paths.
A solar eclipse is constructive interference (it's more dangerous to look at a solar eclipse than just sun), while a lunar eclipse is destructive interference (it is safe to look at a lunar eclipse).
Not an explanation at all.

So why can't a sphere work?
Not what was asked.
Notice how yet again instead of attempting an explanation for your FE fantasy you deflect to lying about the RE to pretend it can't work.

when colored lights are focused
So nothing like reality, with one massive light, rather than 3 separate coloured lights.

If you were able to reason, you would understand the difference.
Do you understand why you get that colour inversion?

If you had the 3 lights together, without any obstruction, you get "white" light, or at least light that appears white to the human eye.
If you then block out the red light, you get the combination of blue and green, which appears cyan.
If you instead block out the blue light, you get the combination of red and green, which appears yellow.
And if you instead block out the green light, you get the combination of blue and red, which appears magenta.

This isn't some magical inversion.
It is simply a combination of 2 colours, because the third is blocked.
You can get the same result by removing the sphere and turning off one of the lights.

If you only had the red light, then you have scene which appears red, and the shadow is dark. It doesn't magically produce a cyan shadow.
Likewise, if you only had the blue light, you have a blue scene with a normal dark shadow.
And a green light alone produces a green scene with a normal dark shadow.

So in this pathetic delusional strawman of yours, what colour is the sun meant to be, and where are the other lights?

Because otherwise this does NOTHING to support your claim that it can't happen on a RE.

This means that if the sun glows red like so
That is not the sun glowing red.
That is the light being scattered by the atmosphere, with blue being scattered more, making the sky appear blue, and the sun and sky around the sun at sunrise and sunset appear red.

Oh, and btw. Eric Dubay mentioning
Eric Dubay is a known conman. He says lots of BS.
Telling us that he has said something is entirely worthless.

In the end, I cannot tell you what causes an eclipse, but I can tell you loads about what doesn't cause it!
Yet you are so confident that it can happen on a flat Earth but not a round Earth.

Lemme guess. "No, I haven't seen an ideal FE model."
It isn't a matter of an ideal FE model.
It is a matter of a FE model which can explain things observed in reality better than the RE model; and that simply hasn't been produced yet.
Instead we have FEers giving vague handwavy "explanations" which really explain nothing and just superficially appear to explain for those who don't bother thinking; who usually then flee from any challenge to it, as you have done repeatedly.

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bulmabriefs144

  • 3362
  • God winds the universe
Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2024, 09:55:18 AM »
Btw, by those Ten Things Flat Earthers Say, do you mean these points?



I noticed he didn't do one on Professor Dave sucking at life. He rightly understands that attacking people because their life is supposedly a failure is a sure sign that you are looking around for someone whose life sucks worse than yours. He does however mention him in this video. "He's not really a professor. Cool story, though, bro." I also like when he says Dave is "uniquely well qualified in the subject" of sucking.

Quote
It doesn't address things like daylight hours, or even temperature with how hot the southern summer can get.

See this is why having honest discussion with round Earthers never gets anywhere. This is what's called "moving the goalposts." I explain the relative nature of the seasons, you want me to explain the length of daylight hours (I'm sorry, but I don't actually waste my days measuring when the sun rose and set, I get up after it rose in many cases and read manga or are on this forum, and am eating dinner with family some nights when it sets) and what actually falls into climate not seasons. Why does this season of summer wind up so much hotter than that summer? That's not even seasons, guy. That's random factors of climate patterns.

Quote
Perspective can't make something sink without making it shrink.

Uhhh, yeah? It can?

When observing a plane as it comes toward you or away you, from a frontal perspective, yes it will appear to sink or grow. But viewing the same plane fly across the sky as you face straight ahead, rather than staring at it, it will appear to rise and fall instead of growing and shrinking. Once you start to face it, probably when it is about to fly away, then you will see it going straight. But at a stoic sidelong position, you will always see it rise and fall.

Quote
Not what was asked.

You've been asking it over and over again. "Why can't this work?" It's beginning to feel less like an honest question, and more like a cry of frustration.     

Quote
If you had the 3 lights together, without any obstruction, you get "white" light, or at least light that appears white to the human eye.
If you then block out the red light, you get the combination of blue and green, which appears cyan.
If you instead block out the blue light, you get the combination of red and green, which appears yellow.
And if you instead block out the green light, you get the combination of blue and red, which appears magenta.

This isn't some magical inversion.

On the obverse side of where the three lights hit, each time, there is a light of the opposite color. Your eclipse should have all kinds of light distortions on the hemisphere opposite the eclipse (there are two lights, not one; the sun and the other one eclipsing it),

but there are not. In other words...



And if the sky is red at sunset, in the opposite hemisphere, it should be green. The sky, not the sun. The sunlight in turn inverts to blue or purple, depending on whether it is more orange or yellow.



Quote
Eric Dubay is a known conman. He says lots of BS.
Telling us that he has said something is entirely worthless.

You are a known conman.

Everything you say has an agenda. We can't be using oil, you say. So that we funnel money into green tech.
Space is real, you say. So we funnel money into NASA.
Earth is round, you say. So that we funnel money into studies about climate change.

Conmen that aren't able to make a profit are not real con artists. Since I haven't bought any diet supplements or Wang Chung martial arts videos, I'd say he's a pretty damned poor con artist. But quite a bit of people have bought support for space, whether they support NASA or Elon Musk.

Quote
Yet you are so confident that it can happen on a flat Earth but not a round Earth.

Yes. Because I have never seen the sort of color inversion described by the three lights, I can safely conclude that I instead seeing light hit a flat plane.

Quote
Instead we have FEers giving vague handwavy "explanations" which really explain nothing and just superficially appear to explain for those who don't bother thinking

But of course, your reasons that Earth is a sphere are perfectly thought out, and leave no doubt in the minds of others.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 10:03:16 AM by bulmabriefs144 »

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JackBlack

  • 23446
Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2024, 12:46:53 PM »
He rightly understands that attacking people because their life is supposedly a failure is a sure sign that you are looking around for someone whose life sucks worse than yours. He does however mention him in this video. "He's not really a professor. Cool story, though, bro." I also like when he says Dave is "uniquely well qualified in the subject" of sucking.
And then proceeds to attack people. Great example.

See this is why having honest discussion with round Earthers never gets anywhere. This is what's called "moving the goalposts."
So honest discussions with round Earthers never get anywhere because FEers move the goalposts.

Quite understandable given they cannot address the issue being raised, so the deflect to something they find simpler.

Just what do you think you explained?

There a few quite key attributes to seasons.
The most common key parts is how summer is hot and has more than 12 hours of daylight while winter is cold and has less than 12 hours; and the further away you go from the equator, the more that difference from 12. i.e. the further away from the equator the more extreme the seasons.

So those attributes you flee from are key to explaining seasons.
If you don't address them you are not explaining seasons.
Instead you providing vague handwavy BS which explains NOTHING.

You not caring about it doesn't mean you have explained seasons.

So can you explain seasons? NO!

Quote
Perspective can't make something sink without making it shrink.
Uhhh, yeah? It can?
No, it can't, because the 2 are intrinsically tied together.
The simplest way to understand perspective is that everything gets scaled down.
This causes the object to appear to shrink, but it also causes the distance between the object and level to appear to shrink making it appear to sink.

This can even be shown geometrically, with either the equations or a simple diagram, which has already been provided to you.

If you want to say no, you need more than just your assertion.

But viewing the same plane fly across the sky as you face straight ahead, rather than staring at it, it will appear to rise and fall instead of growing and shrinking.
So you mean as it flies roughly perpendicular to the line from it to you? Where it is changing angle, NOT based upon perspective but based upon changing position?

Even then, because it isn't flying perfectly perpendicular, it still grows and shrinks, just less.

Do you have any pictures or videos to support your claim?

More importantly, how does this help you at all, given the sun sets when in your model you are basically looking at it as it moves away rather than it going overhead.

You've been asking it over and over again. "Why can't this work?" It's beginning to feel less like an honest question, and more like a cry of frustration.
In the other thread, for a different issue.
Here instead you were asked to explain how it works for a FE model, and instead you deflect to lying about the RE model to pretend the RE model can't.


On the obverse side of where the three lights hit, each time, there is a light of the opposite color.
Which is from the 2 other lights.
Again, you get the exact same result without that obstruction just by turning off the light.
This is NOT a magical colour inversion.
Try it with just a single red light, it doesn't work.

As I explained before, you don't see the cyan because the shadow magically inverts the red light. You see the cyan because the blue and green lights are still shining into the shadow of the red light.

Again, you are setting up a complete strawman, lying to everyone, to pretend the RE can't work, with such trivial BS it isn't funny.

So I'll ask you again, in the RE model, what are these 3 lights meant to be?
Clearly describe each of them.
See if you can honestly answer that direct question.
Or see if you can actually be honest for once in your life and admit your argument was pure BS based upon a wilful misrepresentation of the RE model.

Your eclipse should have all kinds of light distortions on the hemisphere opposite the eclipse (there are two lights, not one; the sun and the other one eclipsing it)
No, that would be YOUR model.
YOU are the one claiming the moon is magically its own light.
In reality, the moon is NOT a light.
Instead, it merely reflects the light of the sun (unless you want to try looking at it in the IR region).

So that would be what we would expect in YOUR BS.

But even then, it still doesn't match. Instead of having 3 lights off at angles, you have 2 lights, in line with each other.

but there are not. In other words...
you are spouting pure BS, setting up pathetic strawmen to pretend the RE model doesn't work, because you cannot explain how it works in the FE model, and can't show any actual fault with the RE model.

And if the sky is red at sunset, in the opposite hemisphere, it should be green.
Repeating the same BS wont help you.
Again, WHERE ARE THE BLUE AND GREEN LIGHTS?

NO WHERE!

Instead, what you have is the sun appear red because the blue light gets scattered away.

You also don't even bother looking at what your actual picture shows, and instead appeal to a crappy colour which doesn't match.
Do you understand the difference between additive and subtractive colour mixing?

You are a known conman.
Really?
Because there have already been plenty of times where I have demonstrated your prophet is lying, yet you can't show a single instance from me.
Regardless, the point remains. Your lying conman saying something is worthless.

Yes. Because I have never seen the sort of color inversion described by the three lights, I can safely conclude that I instead seeing light hit a flat plane.
And if you were capable of reasoning, you would instead recognise that this means we are not illuminated by three different coloured lights.

But thanks for once again showing you either are incapable of reasoning, or just choose not to reason.

This BS does NOTHING to show it can't happen on a RE.
And I find it quite hard to believe that you could actually be stupid enough to believe the BS you are saying could actually represent a RE.

Again, WHAT ARE THE THREE LIGHTS?
Can you honestly answer that? If not, can honestly admit your argument is pure BS that does nothing to show any fault with the RE?
If not, you are just lying to everyone, and you demonstrate you are knowingly and wilfully lying.

But of course, your reasons that Earth is a sphere are perfectly thought out, and leave no doubt in the minds of others.
No. There will always be people like you that will reject reality and have doubts.
But the RE model is vastly more fleshed out than your nonsense, and is actually capable of explaining things, including the exact location of the shadows during the eclipse and the path it takes; and things like seasons with the different length in daylight hours; as well as things like the expected location of the sun in the sky from the model and simple geometry.

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 43052
Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2024, 02:57:53 PM »
1. Seasons: the sun moves in a circle overhead from the Tropic of Cancer to Capricon and back.
How does the sun move back and forth like that?

When the sun is above the equator (northern summer/southern winter), it moves slowly being long hot days in the northern hemisphere. When the sun is below the equator, it speeds up (southern summer/northern winter). The wider the circle, the faster it goes.
So the southern hemiplane gets just as hot with the sun moving fast as the northern hemiplane gets when the sun moves slow?  How does that work?

This tracks. You can repeat this with an ordinary pendulum. Or a swing ride.
Where is the string holding the sun?  What is it attached to at the other end?

2. Set/Rise: Perspective behaves like a dome of angles. Like so.
Perspective alone will never make an object above eye level sink below eye level.

3. Eclipses: The sun and moon are lights in the sky. A greater and a lesser light (as described in Genesis). It is literally a matter of two lights interfering with each other. The one light acts as a mask for another, as they cross paths.

A solar eclipse is constructive interference (it's more dangerous to look at a solar eclipse than just sun), while a lunar eclipse is destructive interference (it is safe to look at a lunar eclipse).
That may be plausible for a solar eclipse, but that clearly isn't how lunar eclipses work.

So why can't a sphere work?

Look at this picture. On a sphere, when colored lights are focused on said sphere, we should be seeing color inversion whenever light shines on one side of the Earth. This means that if the sun glows red like so, on the opposite side of a Round Earth...

...the sky should be a strong green tone, and the yellow light should show blue in an upward cone.
The red sky is from the sun's rays interacting with more atmosphere.  The sun itself is not casting red light at sunset.

Likewise when the sun is like this...

Color inversion is this (in a different angle tho)

On the other side of Earth, we should see these colors, given a large sun hitting a small sphere like we know Earth is. Doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen because the other side of the earth is in shadow (A.K.A., night).

Oh, and btw. Eric Dubay mentioning that historians have recorded instances where the moon was out during a solar eclipse. So whatever was blocking light, it wasn't the moon.
Wow, you can't even cite Eric properly.  He was talking about a lunar eclipse, not solar.  Even so, the video never shows the sun and moon above the horizon above the horizon at the same time.  However, the sun and moon can both be just barely above the horizon at the same time, and is easily explained.


In the end, I cannot tell you what causes an eclipse, but I can tell you loads about what doesn't cause it!
Again, how is that better than RE which can explain what causes eclipses?

Lemme guess. "No, I haven't seen an ideal FE model."
That's because no one has ever come up with a coherent FE model.  There are only ever ideas for bits and pieces of a model.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 03:08:55 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2024, 09:08:56 PM »
Bulma, Eric Dubay is a self proclaimed anti-semite who believed that Hitler and the Nazis did nothing wrong.

 I don't think he's the kind of person you should be defending him from supercilious insults.

Also, believing in scientific institutions is inherently anti-woke. The term "woke" was coined by those people who think there is some universal vibration and we are all in tune with and a few years back there was a divergence of some sort where the people with the correct universal vibrations would ascend to Nirvana or something like that (it's been awhile) and they would say they are "woke" and we are "asleep" because they are enlightened and we are not, so to speak. These people constantly rail against science and also believe in stupid shit like astrology or energy crystals and will call you close minded if you try to reason with them

You Trumpets picked up on it and use it as a general insult for literally any person who isn't religious, straight, or believes in social welfare. Let me be clear, that insult means nothing to anyone and is tantamount to calling us dumb dumb poopy heads. That's what we hear when you go on about "woke liberal queer retards". Its literally every argument about anything and you can count on at least on person calling me "woke" or " liberal" when neither of them apply to not only my personal beliefs, but also the argument at hand.

Also if Trump is such a for-the-people guy and is only concern with the truth, why hasn't he come out about 9/11, flat earth, the Holocaust, etc? He had a full term in office not even a Decade ago with access to this information. But y'all say "it's dangerous, they'll kill him"

I would argue that one 78 year old diabetic's life is a reasonable price to pay for the liberation of 8 billion humans from the stranglehold scientific institutions have in us apparently (but you think religious institutions that have been around for far longer can't?), especially considering how high of a pedestal that you guys put him in. Won't God and Jesus themselves come down from heaven to protect him again like they supposedly did at the Pennsylvania rally?


« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 09:10:48 PM by Adamn »

Re: The Final Experiment - Antarctic 24 hour sun
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2024, 04:57:42 PM »
BULLETS KILL PEOPLE

If your fat finger offends you, cut it off. For it is better to go through life with a bleeding stump hand than to continue misspelling words. Like "skeptical".

Eric Dubay talks about this here.

Yes, he reads nonfiction. In fact, he has read books on the Round Earth. He knows more about Round Earth than you do. So do I, though I mainly read online and watch videos. Libraries do work. They encourage people to discover their own answers. You are a shining example that schools do not work.

I hold a Bachelor Science in History, with minor in Horticulture, which I switched to Religion (turned out, I didn't like Organic Chemistry). I also have taken two extra classes after college: Marketing and Viticulture. I have also taught English as a second language to students in China. Aside from a teacher, few students have attended school as much as I have. I was also assistant librarian for two or three years.

It sounds like you didn't finish college. Should you really be critiquing Flat Earthers on their amount of education? As for how I came up with that, unlike you, I don't have to read other people and get sources from them. I can do my own reasoning:
1. The majority of jobs in America require a college degree. Well, prior to the collapse of the reputations of colleges. Nowadays, hirers no longer care, having seen large amounts of woke globalists exit into the workforce.
2. Flat Earth theory has nothing to do with job prospects, unless you want to talk about it full time, like Eric Dubay.
3. Since most Flat Earthers originally intended to work after education, all of them that could get educated (affording it, etc) did so.
4. Flat Earth is not a matter of being too dumb to understand that the Earth is round. This is something students are taught in the early years of school.
5. Based on this, I can conclude that Flat Earth students were usually Round Earth to start with, and usually Bachelor's degree. Some might have been a two-year degree, but high school dropout is well below the average. A high school dropout would be too busy to spend time thinking about the shape of the Earth. That's an issue of academia.

Tell you what. If you watch the entirety of Tezuka's In The Beginning anime

I will watch your insufferably boring "Ten Things Flat Earthers Say."

Yes yes, Professor Dave. Where he says that "without using science" he can debunk flat Earth.
Science n.
1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
    "new advances in science and technology."
2. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
    "the science of astronomy."
3. A systematic method or body of knowledge in a given area.
    "the science of marketing."

You by definition cannot debunk anything without science.  Science is about knowledge within a discipline. If you don't have knowledge or a discipline, you are functioning at this level.

But while we're on this topic David James "Dave" Farina, graduated the same year as me with the same level of credentials. Bachelor Science in Chemistry. Went on to get a Master's in Organic Chemistry (urgh...) but wimped out and instead got a Science Education degree.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Professor_Dave
He's a woke commie idiot. Atheist, talks about racism and redistribution of wealth, has a degree in teaching not in real science. He couldn't hack it as a real scientist. And what does chemistry have to do with the shape of the Earth? Oh right, nothing. Studying the chemistry of sodium hydroxide has literally nothing to do with the shape of Earth.

They have an article of Eric Dubay rapping in rational wiki.


Water is wet is obvious. So your big proof is "Well, it's obvious, isn't it?" Okay, I'm starting to see why you managed 3/4 of a bachelor degree. Tell me. Are you a lawyer? Did you make the bar exam? What about a paralegal? Or are you just a shiftless person who has a degree, but like me has nothing real to show for it?

So if you tried to move either of these two models, would it break apart? Make a video of you trying to move it.

I don't actually care about your models. Again, it kinda does matter that they actually move, and more importantly since the Earth, moon, sun, Mercury, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto (and their moons) are suspended in space, you need to show me a model where in midair they follow the video.

If you are unable to do this, it is time to donate those to-scale models to thrift.  Models are not good teaching tools. If they do not move and you do not understand why they wouldn't move the way you want them to, they are worthless wastes of space.

I don't have to deal with any of this because I give zero fucks about the supposed galaxy we live in. The Earth in a Flat Earth is the universe, and extends outward beyond the "South Pole". But in answer to your question, the burden of proof is on the one making a claim. You must therefore give a full three-dimensional Milky Way suspended in midair while the sun moves about and carries with it all the planets. Because I don't assert anything about the existence of any of the planets, their moons, the sun or the Milky Way, I don't have to do any of that. But I'll give you this 2D model anyway.

And here's a 3D model sans sun and moon.

This made me laugh. But yeah, models are fantasy.

There's that word that scientists use when they really don't know. You "know," huh. A science textbook talked about how Pasteur debunked Beauchamp and "we now know" that he was wrong. But in The Dream And The Lie of Louis Pasteur, they discussed how Pasteur actually managed to get life to form under certain circumstances. But he buried these results because "only a creator God can make life." And also, because he wanted to close discussion so he would be free to work on his pet projects. Not only can scientists be completely wrong about what they "know" but they can actively lie or suppress such things.

I do not know where the flat Earth around me ends. I am not even certain that it does. I can only see where my horizon ends, and I am not fool enough to pretend that I can measure the distance. For you see, the horizon moves as I move, and there is no tape measure that will address that problem.

The way we down here in Australia spell "skeptical" is "sceptical".

Now if you trace a half metre radius circle around yourself wherever you are, that is your flat earth. But if you want to make your flat earth bigger, work it from the horizon you can see. Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2024, 02:43:21 PM by Smoke Machine »