The Hate Monster

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Space Cowgirl

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The Hate Monster
« on: April 01, 2024, 06:57:22 AM »


Scotland's hate crime act is in effect starting today  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-68703684

People are already flooding the police with reports, which anyone can fill out from anywhere https://www.scotland.police.uk/secureforms/c3/  >:D

JK Rowling throwing down the gauntlet https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/01/jk-rowling-could-investigated-misgendering-snp-law-scotland/

Quote
JK Rowling has challenged Scotland’s police to arrest her under the SNP’s new hate crime laws after stating that a series of high-profile trans women are men.

The Harry Potter author, who lives in Edinburgh, tweeted: “Freedom of speech and belief are at an end in Scotland if the accurate description of biological sex is deemed criminal.

“I’m currently out of the country, but if what I’ve written here qualifies as an offence under the terms of the new act, I look forward to being arrested when I return to the birthplace of the Scottish Enlightenment.”

This should be interesting.


I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2024, 07:17:29 AM »
She's sort of oddly mirroring Jordan Peterson's history.  I wonder if she'll start dressing like a batman villain and equating climate scientists with nazis.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2024, 09:47:32 AM »
That's a completely insane thing to say. I wonder do you think it should be a crime to speak the truth?

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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EarthIsRotund

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2024, 10:16:12 AM »
All I wanna say is that I love Harry Potter books and still do. I just don't care what shit JKR is upto.
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Crouton

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2024, 11:23:55 AM »
That's a completely insane thing to say. I wonder do you think it should be a crime to speak the truth?

This is the road she's going down.

At one point Doctor Peterson was just a normal guy with a respectable career.  Then he got obsessed with wokism.  Fast forward through a benzo addiction and some sort of obscure rehabilitation procedure in Russia and now we get this.



Next thing you know he's sitting around a large circular table brainstorming how to kill Superman.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2024, 01:48:26 PM »
I think you are trying to say she is unhinged without saying she is unhinged (because that would be misogyny, I guess). She engages in activism you disagree with, so comparing her to someone who talks about lobster hierarchies and breaks down in tears all the time is a underhanded way to smear her.

She is defending freedom of speech. She is defending women and girls. She is defending reality. She is defending female prisoners. She is defending rape and abuse survivors. How is that Jordan Peterson's road? If you could specify what she has said that you think put her on the road to lobster town, I would like to see it. Most sane (yeah I think you're mostly sane!) people who jump on the anti-JKR bandwagon can't say what it is they disagree with, and haven't even read the things she's posted, they just repeat what they've heard in a podcast.

She is taking on this hate speech law because she can. She is taking it on because she knows most cannot afford to.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2024, 04:47:06 PM »
I was half joking.  Well 80% joking maybe.  Jordon Peterson is unintentionally hilarious.  But fine, I'll read the article.

Some things stand out to me.

Apparently this isn't actually new.  The UK has some kind of set of laws against inciting violence against any group for some time now.  This I think is some kind of update to those laws.  These sorts of laws obviously wouldn't be okay in the US.  I sometimes wonder if other countries would be better off if they embraced free speech like we do or if there's some quality some countries might lack that makes that a bad idea.

Elon Musks's opinion in this article is sort of curious.  His policy at Twitter is that free speech is whatever the government allows.   When Turkey and India required Twitter to censor criticism of their governments around election time he had no problem complying.  But here he feels like objecting.  Wokeness appears to be a greater concern to him than fascism.

One crucial paragraph in this article:
Quote
Asked whether "misgendering" someone or making a comment about their religion would be a crime the minister replied: "This will be up to Police Scotland. I wouldn't say misgendering if you say something on social media for example it would be up to Police Scotland to determine."

This tells me that misgendering someone online is probably not something that they're going to arrest people over.

I don't have any malice towards JKR.  I just think she has some perplexing personality flaws.  Her issue with this law is that it might make misgendering someone a crime.  And then she goes onto misgendering a bunch of people.  Does she think this makes her look good?

I know two trans people.  One I work with.  One who used to work for me.  I would object to a law criminalizing misgendering them.  But I still wouldn't do it.  It would just be cruel. 

Picture this in a slightly different way.  This law also criminalizes inciting violence against racial minorities.  Suppose JKR chose to object to this by calling Rishi Sunak every racial slur there is then daring the police to arrest her.  Same point but I think it would be received a little differently.
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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2024, 09:29:26 PM »
What is JK Rowling doing?

Does she think she is inciting hatred against trans people?  If so, she might want to reflect on why, and maybe stop.

If she is "stating simple facts on biology" as Sunak puts it as he blunders into into this, there shouldn't be a problem.

Defending women's rights, safe spaces, etc can surely be done without whipping up hatred against trans people.


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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2024, 02:15:53 AM »

I must admit to being conflicted about this, both the law itself and the furor involving JK.
I have never had a problem with our hate speech laws, having seen firsthand the National front shouting their frothing vileness in the faces of old Asians, clearly terrified, I don’t count being able to do that, as a right any sane person would encourage, remember Europe was consumed by this in the not-too-distant past, and that didn’t end well.

And this new law stipulates that the offender must “demonstrate malice and ill-will towards the victim” which would if implemented correctly, exonerate anything that I have heard JK say, and I suppose that is where my reservations stem from.

Our police do not seem to be recruited from what you would call the brightest end of the spectrum, the kind of prejudice this kind of legislation is meant to counter is endemic amongst them and the training for this is inadequate.
The police’s promise to follow up every complaint on this, something that would be unique, as they don’t on any other matter, is liable to create a bloody mess where they charge teenagers for hate crimes for posting a friend’s favourite rap song on their bereavement site, as they have done in the past.

My only problem with JK on this is the hyperbole and self-promotion that she has added to this, if she had just stated that, as nothing she has said is from malice or ill-will towards others she felt it didn’t encompass her, that would have been it, to challenge the police to arrest her, especially as they are hardly likely too, is a bit toss.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2024, 07:28:45 AM »
The whole idea behind "misgendering" is nonsense. Most of the men she "misgendered" in that tweet thread had a miraculous gender revelation after being arrested for rape, being caught with child sex abuse videos, etc. Even if they weren't criminals, they're still not women, and no one should be compelled by law to pretend they are. You can do so of your own free will, or not, but the govt should not be involved. The ones in the tweet thread who aren't criminals have said terribly weird and questionable things, which shouldn't be illegal or anything, but if they weren't of the holy caste they would have been cancelled (or at least fired). For example, Bergdorf has said really weird, sometimes racist, sometimes homophobic things, but he still gets celebrated by The Guardian, he still gets to be the UN Women's Champion.

The people "whipping up hatred" against trans people, are generally trans people. They tend to get a free pass when making rape and death threats because they are the "most marginalized people on the planet". The more visible this ideology becomes, the more people are against it. Most of us are still in favor of laws that protect everyone from discrimination in housing, employment, healthcare, etc, but you can't force people to believe in gendered souls. 

I think Michael Foran explains very well why people are confused about this law https://x.com/michaelpforan/status/1775127086384009457?s=20  The misunderstanding comes directly from politicians, the media, and the police. The govt campaign for this law focused on hurt feelings, and leaves it up to the police to decide. The police have said that insulting and name calling can be a hate crime, without mentioning freedom of expression or belief "We look at why the act or offense was committed and the perceptions of those involved". The media should have done their job and demanded clarification.

You should also know that people have been being arrested (or just taken into custody? idk you guys do things differently over there) for posting hurty words on Twitter for a few years now. Sex Matters has a convenient list of some of the ridiculous times the police showed up at someone's home. https://x.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1673047672905773056?s=20 

Miranda Yardley, a transsexual, was prosecuted for a transphobic hate crime.

Caroline Farrow was reported to police after she referred in a tweet to the child of then Mermaids CEO Susie Green, who was taken to Thailand at the age of 16 to be “castrated and rendered sterile while still a child”. (Caroline Farrow has been taken to court repeatedly by a vexatious trans woman, one who has been convicted of sexual assault and for killing someone).

Linda Bellos OBE was prosecuted for talking about self-defence while Venice Allan was prosecuted for broadcasting Bellos’s remarks.

Kate Scottow was prosecuted under s.127 of the Communications Act for tweets including calling a trans-identifed man a “pig in a wig”. The conviction was overturned on appeal almost two years after her arrest.

Kellie-Jay Keen has been questioned several times by the police:

Jennifer Swayne was arrested by Gwent Police on suspicion of criminal damage and displaying threatening or abusive writing likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress over stickers saying “3 women killed by men each week” and “Domestic violence kills”.

Marion Millar was prosecuted for a hate-crime charge in Scotland, after posting stickers saying “Women Won’t Wheesht” and tweeting a picture of a purple, white and green suffragette ribbon tied to a wire fence which someone interpreted as a noose.

Cathy Kirby, a Norfolk teacher, was visited twice at her Norwich home by police officers after transactivists lodged a series of complaints claiming her posts on Twitter were transphobic.

There are more instances of this happening. I just remembered about the "lesbian nana" incident (you can look that up yourself, lol).  Anyway, JKR is purposely taking the heat and daring the police to arrest her, because she knows so many women are too afraid to speak. They are afraid the police will show up and confiscate their phones or laptops. They're afraid they won't be able to work. Women are afraid to voice their opinions on politics. Whatever ever you say doesn't have to be "hateful" for the police to come knocking.


I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2024, 07:57:57 AM »

Which is why I have reservations, because the people who have the say on this are less than capable of doing it properly and are predisposed to aim it at the wrong people out of bloody-minded idiocy.

As for JK I’m willing to give her a pass on this for the reasons you put forward, as on balance I think it’s a shit piece of legislation and liable, even designed to make things worse.
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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2024, 08:53:53 AM »
She's sort of oddly mirroring Jordan Peterson's history.
This isn't really true at all.  She's still the classic liberal / old school feminist she always was and she is very much a one issue culture warrior.  Unlike Jordan's full spectrum lunacy and hard shift to the right.
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Crouton

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2024, 10:58:17 AM »
She's sort of oddly mirroring Jordan Peterson's history.
This isn't really true at all.  She's still the classic liberal / old school feminist she always was and she is very much a one issue culture warrior.  Unlike Jordan's full spectrum lunacy and hard shift to the right.

What I specifically meant by that was that Peterson's origin story was daring Canada to arrest him for not following a law somewhat similar to this, something about making it illegal to misgender someone in Canada.  After that he took off in conservative media.
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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2024, 11:14:32 AM »
What I specifically meant by that was that Peterson's origin story was daring Canada to arrest him for not following a law somewhat similar to this, something about making it illegal to misgender someone in Canada.  After that he took off in conservative media.
Ah, I see.

Well, anyway Scottish police have said she's not breaking the new law.  Let's see if anyone manages to anger the Hate Monster.
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2024, 11:20:02 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-68712471

Quote
Reacting to the news, Ms Rowling posted on X: "I hope every woman in Scotland who wishes to speak up for the reality and importance of biological sex will be reassured by this announcement, and I trust that all women - irrespective of profile or financial means - will be treated equally under the law.

"If they go after any woman for simply calling a man a man, I'll repeat that woman's words and they can charge us both at once."

She is awesome.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2024, 11:45:18 AM »
Honestly I don't get why she is still relevant. She wrote a children's book that was mediocre 20 years ago.
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2024, 12:12:20 PM »

Everybody is relevant john, even you.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2024, 12:35:02 PM »
Can you imagine writing a "mediocre" book series that still turns up on bestseller lists after 20 years?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2024, 04:28:50 PM »
What is wrong with those people in the north anyway? Why  can't they speak the fakin language properly? Were they all drunk when the English tought them how to speak like humans? Too much whisky maybe?

Alright, I can understand a bit why the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish speak funny, because of their Gaelic (Celtic) history, but what is the excuse of those in Northern England ffs? Even Canadians and Americans speak English better than them.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2024, 12:34:40 PM »
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24229707.police-scotland-will-not-log-hate-incident-jk-rowling/

 
Quote
Police Scotland has confirmed that neither JK Rowling nor Humza Yousaf will have a non-crime hate incident (NCHI) logged against their names, despite multiple complaints against them after Scotland's new hate crime legislation took effect.

A force spokesperson said: “The circumstances have been assessed and will not be recorded as a Non-Crime Hate Incident.”

Tory MSP, Murdo Fraser, who does have an NCHI recorded against his name, despite committing no crime, claimed the decision "reeks of political bias."

He said the service had "breached their own policy on recording non-crime hate incidents" and was "making it up as they go along."

 Taking to X, Ms Rowling welcomed the decision: "Again, I trust everyone will be treated the same way if they express themselves similarly.

"Nobody should have a 'Hate Incident' logged against them for accurately describing, or asserting the importance and reality, of biological sex. We must all be equal under the law."

idk who Murdo Fraser is (Murdo!) but this is what his non crime hate incident was -

Quote
Mr Fraser was reported to police in November last year when he shared a column written by Susan Dalgety for The Scotsman, which claimed the SNP Government’s non-binary equality action plan would lead to children being “damaged by this cult”.

Commenting on the post, Mr Fraser said: “Choosing to identify as ‘non-binary’ is as valid as choosing to identify as a cat. I’m not sure governments should be spending time on action plans for either.”

Maybe he is some horrible rightwinger, but I don't see the hate in his comment. Only common sense.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2024, 04:58:24 PM »
Can you imagine writing a "mediocre" book series that still turns up on bestseller lists after 20 years?
Yes, because the success of a book series is 100% due to its quality and has nothing to do with factors like marketing, culture and fashion. That's why they teach about the Twilight series in literature courses world wide, and the best selling book of all time is the really well written Christian Bible. ::)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2024, 05:02:09 PM by Username »
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2024, 06:08:54 PM »
Well I wouldn't be surprised if they taught the Twilight series. Some universities have Harry Potter courses! The Harry Potter books were for teenagers, so of course they're a bit "mediocre" for adults. You probably didn't sneer at them this way a few years ago.

Anyway, I don't know what her mediocre book series has to do with it, but she's amazing. Women are extremely grateful that she is standing up for sanity. Only a dishonest person thinks she has said anything "phobic".  Whether you agree with her or not doesn't matter, she is exercising her speech rights and daring the police to enforce a wacky law.



I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2024, 10:44:03 AM »
Well I wouldn't be surprised if they taught the Twilight series. Some universities have Harry Potter courses! The Harry Potter books were for teenagers, so of course they're a bit "mediocre" for adults. You probably didn't sneer at them this way a few years ago.

Anyway, I don't know what her mediocre book series has to do with it, but she's amazing. Women are extremely grateful that she is standing up for sanity. Only a dishonest person thinks she has said anything "phobic".  Whether you agree with her or not doesn't matter, she is exercising her speech rights and daring the police to enforce a wacky law.

On being sent a video of trans newsreader and TV presenter:

"You've sent me the wrong video. There isn't a lady in this one, just a man revelling in his misogynistic performance of what he thinks 'woman' means: narcissistic, shallow and exhibitionist."

You don’t think that sounds even a tad transphobic?

Especially as that the person in question is living under police protection having received credible death threats from a neo Nazi group.

Few people would have a problem with Rowling for defending women’s rights to separate changing rooms, prisons and all that if she didn’t get stuck into the shit fight that the debate has turned into.  Her arguments would probably carry more weight if she showed just a little compassion and understanding towards trans people.

She could have said that gender critical views do not equal inciting hatred, and that doing so would obviously be wrong.  Instead of daring the police to arrest her for it.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Hate Monster
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2024, 01:32:21 PM »
No, I don't think that sounds transphobic. I know who India Willoughby is, lol.  The neo Nazi group made the threats over a year ago, I doubt he is still living under police protection. Come on.  India is extremely involved in online activism, and continuously posts @ and about JKR.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1776616861888655835
Quote
You’ve asked me several questions on this thread and accused me of avoiding answering, so here goes.

I believe a woman is a human being who belongs to the sex class that produces large gametes. It’s irrelevant whether or not her gametes have ever been fertilised, whether or not she’s carried a baby to term, irrelevant if she was born with a rare difference of sexual development that makes neither of the above possible, or if she’s aged beyond being able to produce viable eggs. She is a woman and just as much a woman as the others.

I don’t believe a woman is more or less of a woman for having sex with men, women, both or not wanting sex at all. I don’t think a woman is more or less of a woman for having a buzz cut and liking suits and ties, or wearing stilettos and mini dresses, for being black, white or brown, for being six feet tall or a little person, for being kind or cruel, angry or sad, loud or retiring. She isn't more of a woman for featuring in Playboy or being a surrendered wife, nor less of a woman for designing space rockets or taking up boxing. What makes her a woman is the fact of being born in a body that, assuming nothing has gone wrong in her physical development (which, as stated above, still doesn't stop her being a woman), is geared towards producing eggs as opposed to sperm, towards bearing as opposed to begetting children, and irrespective of whether she's done either of those things, or ever wants to.

Womanhood isn't a mystical state of being, nor is it measured by how well one apes sex stereotypes. We are not the creatures either porn or the Bible tell you we are. Femaleness is not, as trans woman Andrea Chu Long wrote, ‘an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes,’ nor are we God’s afterthought, sprung from Adam’s rib.

Women are provably subject to certain experiences because of our female bodies, including different forms of oppression, depending on the cultures in which we live. When trans activists say 'I thought you didn't want to be defined by your biology,' it’s a feeble and transparent attempt at linguistic sleight of hand. Women don't want to be limited, exploited, punished, or subject to other unjust treatment because of their biology, but our being female is indeed defined by our biology. It's one material fact about us, like having freckles or disliking beetroot, neither of which are representative of our entire beings, either. Women have billions of different personalities and life stories, which have nothing to do with our bodies, although we are likely to have had experiences men don't and can't, because we belong to our sex class.

Some people feel strongly that they should have been, or wish to be seen as, the sex class into which they weren't born. Gender dysphoria is a real and very painful condition and I feel nothing but sympathy for anyone who suffers from it. I want them to be free to dress and present themselves however they like and I want them to have exactly the same rights as every other citizen regarding housing, employment and personal safety. I do not, however, believe that surgeries and cross-sex hormones literally turn a person into the opposite sex, nor do I believe in the idea that each of us has a nebulous ‘gender identity’ that may or might not match our sexed bodies. I believe the ideology that preaches those tenets has caused, and continues to cause, very real harm to vulnerable people.

I am strongly against women's and girls' rights and protections being dismantled to accommodate trans-identified men, for the very simple reason that no study has ever demonstrated that trans-identified men don't have exactly the same pattern of criminality as other men, and because, however they identify, men retain their advantages of speed and strength. In other words, I think the safety and rights of girls and women are more important than those men's desire for validation.

I sincerely hope that answers your questions. You may still disagree, but as I hope this shows, I’m more than happy to have this debate.
10:24 AM · Apr 6, 2024

This is similar to the blog post she made a few years ago. It won't make any difference. You will still think she shows no compassion.



I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.