Does anyone really believe the sun circles above us all the time?

Walking the dog tonight, I can see that the moon rises in the east and sets in the west. It is clearly a path that is a circle that goes around so that if it continues in the same way goes under my feet and comes up again. Jupiter was a bit ahead of the moon. The earth could be flat but it would be weird that everyone everywhere sees the sun come up in the morning, be high in the sky a while later and then sets. You can phone people in Thailand when it is night here and they see the sun there. They say they saw it rise in the morning and set at night. It is very clear to anyone open to truth that the sun, moon and jupiter are following a circular path. It is clear. Just look in the sky. Of course naysayers will say they cannot afford to travel but anyone who has been near the equator can see the sun or moon come up in the direct east and set in the direct west. There is no circle above our heads that it follows. Is there anyone who actually believes something different than what everyone can actually see if they look? The ancient Greeks believed Helios strapped his horses in the east and rode over their heads and went to bed at night in the west. They were not foolish enough to think he was doing circles over their heads. It does not look that way. Even if the earth was flat the sun and moon and planets and stars are going around so they are under our feet 12 hours after being above our heads. It is simple to see that. How can anyone argue that it does not. Just look.

I am not so sure it looks elliptical. Are you sure about this? When you go up north in the summer the sun follows the horizon and does a full circle. When you are at the equator during the equinox it follows a circle. Last night looking at the moon, it sure looked like it was following a circular path. The stars close to the north star make circles on time lapse photographs, not ellipses. Now that I think of it, if the sun and moon were following elliptical paths across the sky, they would cover different angles in the same amount of time. Now that I think of it, the sun follows the same number of degrees every hour, 1/24th of a circle. The sun does not get closer and farther away as it would if it was following an ellipse. Thanks, you have helped me confirm that I was right. The sun does not hover over us, it sets and rises in a circular path. I encourage you to go outside and look. Cheers (you can now argue that the moon does not exactly cover 1/24 of a circle every hour because it takes approximately 25 hours to make the journey. That is why I said the sun covers 1/24th. But just go out and look, you will see I am right). The sun and moon are not circling above us, they set and rise.

Thanks for taking the time to look outside.
The cool thing about being on a round earth is that the sun, moon, planets and stars all move in circles, regardless what position on earth you are at. That is why the concept of a celestial sphere was developed. That is why planetariums are domes to look realistic.
I have been to the far north and the 24 hr nights. I saw when the sun was almost above the horizon and took a snowmobile to the top of a hill where you could see sunlight. It was not closer to the sun but farther away. The sun was clearly below where the horizon was, meaning that if the earth was flat the sun was below the plane of the surface. I have been to many countries on 5 continents, including Australia. I would always get lost in Australia because I would forget the sun is in the north "down under."  I never saw the sun moon planets or stars move in ellipses. Always circles. Pretty tough to explain what we can all see without resorting to the simple answer of a round earth. Which is why I really wonder if anyone without severe mental issues would honestly believe the sun and moon are hovering around our heads when all anyone has to go is go and watch them.

So it looks like no one wants to suggest that they actually (being honest) believe that the sun hovers over our heads in contrast to what we can all see simply by looking at the sky. It seems we successfully debunked the crazy idea of a floating sun.  The earth could still be flat but the sun circles around us, it does not hover.
Aera23, you bring up the interesting point that you see 1/2 the time there is sunlight and 1/2 the time there is dark. This could be simply that you are lucky to be in the middle of the flat earth. However, you note that you moved a fair distance at one time and yet you still get 1/2 and 1/2.  I live a very long way away and I also get 1/2 light and 1/2 dark (over a year). It is the same everywhere I have been.
If the earth is flat and everyone gets 1/2 light and 1/2 dark, I can think of no model that would provide that other than a spinning globe. People living near the east edge would get lots of light in the morning, and at mid day the sun would be in the west. People living in west edge would get sun overhead late in the day. Perhaps all flat earthers are fortunate to live in the center. So it is possible to go outside and see the sun rises and sets and conclude you are lucky to be in the middle of the flat earth. But for 2 flat earthers to get this and be from different places, it would be a wacky difficult thing to explain. The stay in their basement and never travel flat earther could still believe the earth is flat. But they would have to stay indoors to keep believing in a hovering sun. (again unless they are suffering from a serious mental illness).
Cheers

Quote from: Helios on November 20, 2024, 04:51:08 PM

Thanks for taking the time to look outside.
The cool thing about being on a round earth is that the sun, moon, planets and stars all move in circles, regardless what position on earth you are at. That is why the concept of a celestial sphere was developed. That is why planetariums are domes to look realistic.
I have been to the far north and the 24 hr nights. I saw when the sun was almost above the horizon and took a snowmobile to the top of a hill where you could see sunlight. It was not closer to the sun but farther away. The sun was clearly below where the horizon was, meaning that if the earth was flat the sun was below the plane of the surface. I have been to many countries on 5 continents, including Australia. I would always get lost in Australia because I would forget the sun is in the north "down under."  I never saw the sun moon planets or stars move in ellipses. Always circles. Pretty tough to explain what we can all see without resorting to the simple answer of a round earth. Which is why I really wonder if anyone without severe mental issues would honestly believe the sun and moon are hovering around our heads when all anyone has to go is go and watch them.

No worries (I used my memory of the last time I went outside to answer the question... sometime earlier today, yesterday, etc)
Cool that you were able to go north enough to see 24h nights, must've been chilly (tho there are probably fireplaces, radiators, furnaces there)... I'm in Australia, and seen the moon in the sky with the sun, something less common in the country I was born in (Sri Lanka). As for the people who believe in hovering sun and moon, they must've somehow managed to delude themselves, maybe playing wayyy too much Minecraft (I play minecraft in moderation)

Quote from: Aera23 on November 20, 2024, 04:58:48 PM

Quote from: Helios on November 20, 2024, 04:51:08 PM

Thanks for taking the time to look outside.
The cool thing about being on a round earth is that the sun, moon, planets and stars all move in circles, regardless what position on earth you are at. That is why the concept of a celestial sphere was developed. That is why planetariums are domes to look realistic.
I have been to the far north and the 24 hr nights. I saw when the sun was almost above the horizon and took a snowmobile to the top of a hill where you could see sunlight. It was not closer to the sun but farther away. The sun was clearly below where the horizon was, meaning that if the earth was flat the sun was below the plane of the surface. I have been to many countries on 5 continents, including Australia. I would always get lost in Australia because I would forget the sun is in the north "down under."  I never saw the sun moon planets or stars move in ellipses. Always circles. Pretty tough to explain what we can all see without resorting to the simple answer of a round earth. Which is why I really wonder if anyone without severe mental issues would honestly believe the sun and moon are hovering around our heads when all anyone has to go is go and watch them.

No worries (I used my memory of the last time I went outside to answer the question... sometime earlier today, yesterday, etc)
Cool that you were able to go north enough to see 24h nights, must've been chilly (tho there are probably fireplaces, radiators, furnaces there)... I'm in Australia, and seen the moon in the sky with the sun, something less common in the country I was born in (Sri Lanka). As for the people who believe in hovering sun and moon, they must've somehow managed to delude themselves, maybe playing wayyy too much Minecraft (I play minecraft in moderation)

In Minecraft, the sun circles going overhead and below.
In skyblock worlds or if you break through the bedrock, you can literally see the sun and moon go below.
And importantly, you have the entire world experience the same time, the sun rises for everyone at the same time and sets for everyone at the same time.

It is a far more coherent model, than the FE nonsense spouted by people today.

I do. What are your arguments to support denying my view?

I will ask you if there is any good reason besides your education that provide you with strong evidence to believe your theory. I find the idea that globe-earth applies all the formulae to express this world as it is taught and have those forces at work without any manifestation we can observe. Also, spiraling through the universe as a Solar system would change our night sky over time. Selection of some physics and denial of other physics is unacceptable. Both or none must be accepted and used. If disagreeing on that point, please expand on your reasoning.

I do. What are your arguments to support denying my view?

I will ask you if there is any good reason besides your education that provide you with strong evidence to believe your theory. I find the idea that globe-earth applies all the formulae to express this world as it is taught and have those forces at work without any manifestation we can observe. Also, spiraling through the universe as a Solar system would change our night sky over time. Selection of some physics and denial of other physics is unacceptable. Both or none must be accepted and used. If disagreeing on that point, please expand on your reasoning.

I do. What are your arguments to support denying my view?

I will ask you if there is any good reason besides your education that provide you with strong evidence to believe your theory.

would change our night sky over time

Selection of some physics and denial of other physics is unacceptable.

Quote from: Atam-Or on December 01, 2024, 07:52:52 AM

I do. What are your arguments to support denying my view?

I will ask you if there is any good reason besides your education that provide you with strong evidence to believe your theory. I find the idea that globe-earth applies all the formulae to express this world as it is taught and have those forces at work without any manifestation we can observe. Also, spiraling through the universe as a Solar system would change our night sky over time. Selection of some physics and denial of other physics is unacceptable. Both or none must be accepted and used. If disagreeing on that point, please expand on your reasoning.

I did not mention anything about education. It looks like you are a lost cause since you obviously did not even read my original post. All you have to do is look at the sky. There are other things you can do such as travel. I know a typical response is that the liar will claim their back is broken and they cannot make it to the window to look outside. Please read the original post and respond how you can believe a sun hovers above us. Well I guess you would have to read the original post and then also look outsdie. No education required to just look and see.

Apologies for miscommunicating there...education was intending to convey learning, or knowledge.

Your knowledge has determined your beliefs and understanding of the world. That should hold up.

Now, to follow up, you have volunteered rhetorical elements to bolster your belief, with a powerful use of language that has zero to offer us in terms of measurable and reproducable experimentation or observations. Please be aware your argument is weakened by such contributions. As for your proffered means of attaining enlightenment, it falls short of the mark we strive for in this life.

It's okay to disagree, but do so without projecting that belief; devoid of evidence whatsoever.

Cheerio

Also, I beleive the observable world around me and the use of new ideas that reveal solutions to unexplained dogma. Dogma means it doesnt require explaination. The sun as centre of our space map with other planets all orbiting round and round has no business being confirmed by satalite data with anomolies being abundant yet ignored by the community. This is psuedoscience, or fake-science.

Please show me your satalite data of the sun that flawlessly demonstrates all the acceptable norms with the sun. I should be very keen to see that report!


Thanks for you contributions.

Quote from: Helios on December 01, 2024, 08:57:13 AM

Quote from: Atam-Or on December 01, 2024, 07:52:52 AM

I do. What are your arguments to support denying my view?

I will ask you if there is any good reason besides your education that provide you with strong evidence to believe your theory. I find the idea that globe-earth applies all the formulae to express this world as it is taught and have those forces at work without any manifestation we can observe. Also, spiraling through the universe as a Solar system would change our night sky over time. Selection of some physics and denial of other physics is unacceptable. Both or none must be accepted and used. If disagreeing on that point, please expand on your reasoning.

I did not mention anything about education. It looks like you are a lost cause since you obviously did not even read my original post. All you have to do is look at the sky. There are other things you can do such as travel. I know a typical response is that the liar will claim their back is broken and they cannot make it to the window to look outside. Please read the original post and respond how you can believe a sun hovers above us. Well I guess you would have to read the original post and then also look outsdie. No education required to just look and see.

Apologies for miscommunicating there...education was intending to convey learning, or knowledge.

Your knowledge has determined your beliefs and understanding of the world. That should hold up.

Now, to follow up, you have volunteered rhetorical elements to bolster your belief, with a powerful use of language that has zero to offer us in terms of measurable and reproducable experimentation or observations. Please be aware your argument is weakened by such contributions. As for your proffered means of attaining enlightenment, it falls short of the mark we strive for in this life.

It's okay to disagree, but do so without projecting that belief; devoid of evidence whatsoever.

Cheerio

Also, I beleive the observable world around me and the use of new ideas that reveal solutions to unexplained dogma. Dogma means it doesnt require explaination. The sun as centre of our space map with other planets all orbiting round and round has no business being confirmed by satalite data with anomolies being abundant yet ignored by the community. This is psuedoscience, or fake-science.

Please show me your satalite data of the sun that flawlessly demonstrates all the acceptable norms with the sun. I should be very keen to see that report!


Thanks for you contributions.

you spelled satellite wrong. Anyway, if you read my original post, it is pretty clear that you do not need satellite data to confirm what everyone can see. I do not need satellite data to see that my dog greets me at the door. The ancients did not have satellites to tell them that the sun rises and sets. They simply looked and saw it was true.
Again go outside and look. The sun rises and it sets. It follows a circle with you in the center of that circle. The sun does not change its angular velocity over the day, the way it would look if it was hovering above you. It does not change size either. All these things I mention are measurable and reproducible. If you would go and look you can see for yourself that the sun, moon, Jupiter, and the stars are traveling in a daily circle. Not sure what data a satellite could provide that would add anything to the clear observations. 
Please go and look at how the things above us move. If you come back and say that it looks like the sun is hovering over your head, we must conclude that you are not being sincere.

Cheers 

Quote from: Helios on December 01, 2024, 08:57:13 AM

Quote from: Atam-Or on December 01, 2024, 07:52:52 AM

I do. What are your arguments to support denying my view?

I will ask you if there is any good reason besides your education that provide you with strong evidence to believe your theory. I find the idea that globe-earth applies all the formulae to express this world as it is taught and have those forces at work without any manifestation we can observe. Also, spiraling through the universe as a Solar system would change our night sky over time. Selection of some physics and denial of other physics is unacceptable. Both or none must be accepted and used. If disagreeing on that point, please expand on your reasoning.

I did not mention anything about education. It looks like you are a lost cause since you obviously did not even read my original post. All you have to do is look at the sky. There are other things you can do such as travel. I know a typical response is that the liar will claim their back is broken and they cannot make it to the window to look outside. Please read the original post and respond how you can believe a sun hovers above us. Well I guess you would have to read the original post and then also look outsdie. No education required to just look and see.

Apologies for miscommunicating there...education was intending to convey learning, or knowledge.

Your knowledge has determined your beliefs and understanding of the world. That should hold up.

Now, to follow up, you have volunteered rhetorical elements to bolster your belief, with a powerful use of language that has zero to offer us in terms of measurable and reproducable experimentation or observations. Please be aware your argument is weakened by such contributions. As for your proffered means of attaining enlightenment, it falls short of the mark we strive for in this life.

It's okay to disagree, but do so without projecting that belief; devoid of evidence whatsoever.

Cheerio

Also, I beleive the observable world around me and the use of new ideas that reveal solutions to unexplained dogma. Dogma means it doesnt require explaination. The sun as centre of our space map with other planets all orbiting round and round has no business being confirmed by satalite data with anomolies being abundant yet ignored by the community. This is psuedoscience, or fake-science.

Please show me your satalite data of the sun that flawlessly demonstrates all the acceptable norms with the sun. I should be very keen to see that report!


Thanks for you contributions.

To look at the sun and moon and Jupiter rise and set is no more a belief than to say my dog is at the door to greet me when I got home is a belief. It is just what happens. It is hardly a belief that I am typing on a keyboard, it just is. I do not need satellite data to prove this keyboard is here or my dog greets me at the door. Those two things are not really reproducible for you and you do not have to believe it. But you can go out and see the world. No believing is necessary. Just looking.

Your knowledge has determined your beliefs and understanding of the world. That should hold up.

Now, to follow up, you have volunteered rhetorical elements to bolster your belief, with a powerful use of language that has zero to offer us in terms of measurable and reproducable experimentation or observations.

It's okay to disagree, but do so without projecting that belief; devoid of evidence whatsoever.