Light examination of idea that the earth is flat, sky spherical, pic included

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faded mike

  • 2731
  • I'm thinkin flat
Hey guys.

Just looking for some feedback, why is this most evidently incorrect, what am i not seeing.

https://postimg.cc/F74bxMvV

This pic shows the missing curvature. It is from Dominican Republic, i believe S.E. part of the island from about Batey el Soco harbour looking west 40 to 50 miles to Santo Domingo at highrises (building cluster in middle of pic) less than 400 feet tall - you can see half or more of the buildiings. There should be 900 to 1700 ft of curvature in between. Even if they did drop me off on some other island as it might seem jack black and stash were insinuating, i know we drove approx 45 mins at approx 80km per hr to get there, starting east of the city.

So the short version of my thinking is that the curvature happens over the head of each individual. This spherical effect to looking at the sky, i believe, maybe demonstrated by the moon terminator illusion, where the illuminated side of the moon, when in the sky with the sun at the same time, is not directly facing the sun, but off a little. I looked into the moon terminator illusion awhile back but found that i could not reason away the official explanation completely and left it at that, now having seen someone bring it up again on here and seeing defer to wikipedia page where it looks like they are just saying it is an illusion and nothing more is really said. Seems they say - 1 "this is because students learn planar geometry first"... ok why cant you lay a plane on the triangle that make the sun / moon / observer, and 2 "this is an axiom..." (?). Something quite similar to this, That was all i could garnish from wikipedia - was i missing something?

So i believe the ancients used to say the sky is spherical - what is the direct evidence that the curvature of the angle to heavenly bodies moving throught the sky is not happening in the sky and instead it is the earth they are going around.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 01:32:29 PM by faded mike »
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

*

faded mike

  • 2731
  • I'm thinkin flat
Re: The earth is flat, the sky is spherical, pic included
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2024, 01:16:11 PM »
Actually I dont think the curvature happens over our head -  i dont think about it at all really because i believe there are so many unkowns involved in the equation that i likley could not understand just as our most talented scientists could not understand it. This is the biggest thing  in our world - the whole world itself and the sun and the moon - why could we just understand it... That is my thinking, believing we have turned away from the truth time and time again, with corrupted motives and bandaid solutions, coming to this point in the world. Hopefully and quite possibly i am wrong.

 But it just seems like a simple solution, so what is the evidence against this. That there is a approx spherical curvature above each individual that matches the approx supposed diameter of earth.
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

*

JackBlack

  • 23446
Re: The earth is flat, the sky is spherical, pic included
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2024, 01:39:58 PM »
Hey guys.

Just looking for some feedback, why is this most evidently incorrect, what am i not seeing.
As has discussed previously,
You don't know where the photo was taken, what the photo was of, nor how far away the city is, nor the altitude of the camera.

Without those key details (which you need to able to justify, especially after your previous claims of not knowing and giving impossible distances), you cannot claim missing curvature.

But what is apparent is the bottom of the buildings are missing.
You have a skyline which shows only the tall buildings, showing curvature.

This pic shows the missing curvature. It is from Dominican Republic, i believe S.E. part of the island from about Batey el Soco harbour looking west 40 to 50 miles to Santo Domingo at highrises (building cluster in middle of pic) less than 400 feet tall - you can see half or more of the buildiings.
Yet previously, you claimed this was just off the coast of Saona Island.

And as discussed previously, this would put land in the way.

Isn't it much more plausible for you to have left El-Soco Harbour, and looked towards San Pedro De Macoris?

So the short version of my thinking is that the curvature happens over the head of each individual.
This cannot explain why things appear to sink.

This spherical effect to looking at the sky, i believe, maybe demonstrated by the moon terminator illusion
This "spherical effect" is merely a statement that our eyes work based upon angles, and yet we as humans naturally use the ground as a reference.
It does nothing to explain why the bottom of objects would appear to sink.

Seems they say - 1 "this is because students learn planar geometry first"... ok why cant you lay a plane on the triangle that make the sun / moon / observer, and 2 "this is an axiom..." (?).
I don't see anything on it being an axiom.
I also don't see them say it is based upon learning planar geometry first.
Care to link to the page?

And you can construct a triangle.
Some people have even done this with balls and string.
You can stand in the right spot and see the moon and sun align with the balls, and see the string going the same way the moon is appearing to point, and then stepping back, and seeing quite clearly it is a straight line.

The illusion results from taking this spherical view, and projecting it onto a flat plane.
This necessarily distorts at least some lines, so what is a straight line, appears as a curve.

So i believe the ancients used to say the sky is spherical - what is the direct evidence that the curvature of the angle to heavenly bodies moving throught the sky is not happening in the sky and instead it is the earth they are going around.
They had a celestial sphere which would rotate around Earth.
This is nothing like what you are suggesting.
They did not claim this sky being spherical magically hid things from view.
Instead, they had things like the sun moved along the celestial sphere and went below Earth, with Earth still blocking the view.

our most talented scientists could not understand it.
Or most talented scientists accept that Earth is round, which is what all the evidence shows, and is entirely compatible with the world without needing to resort to extra nonsense to try to make it work.

That is my thinking, believing we have turned away from the truth time and time again, with corrupted motives and bandaid solutions, coming to this point in the world.
Now, can you recognise that that can describe FEers quite well?
That they step away from the truth (that Earth is round) and try to come up with band aids to ty to save the idea of a flat Earth?
That perhaps it is time for flat Earthers to step back from all those band aids, evaluate the world as it is, and accept that it is round?

But it just seems like a simple solution, so what is the evidence against this. That there is a approx spherical curvature above each individual that matches the approx supposed diameter of earth.
The fundamental issue is how does this work?
How does this produce the results that are observed?
How doe the "curvature of the sky" result in distant objects appearing to sink such that they disappear from the bottom up?

Are you trying to say that light itself bends?

Then for this to work, you would expect the same results on a round Earth and a flat Earth. That means the claims of being able to see a distant shore or missing curvature argue equally against the RE and this idea. Likewise, the idea of being able to see level objects in a straight line would also go against both.

So the question then becomes what evidence is there that Earth is flat or round, because the visual evidence would either match both, or contradict both.

The logical place to turn would be mapping, where the surface of Earth is mapped independent from the sky or light.
But the distances for that show Earth is round. And an example of the practical utility of that are all the different flight paths which only make sense on a round Earth. You can pick a certain version of a flat Earth and make most flights make sense, but some will not. The only way for them all to make sense is with a round Earth.

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faded mike

  • 2731
  • I'm thinkin flat
Just in response to your first couple assertions, I have a much better idea about where i was then you do... right? We were on a catamaran boat (like 2 canoes with a platform connecting them for a deck) and this is not a high deck so like maybe 7 feet elevation from sea level. This was stated in the previous thread ("some pics" in fe general) so for you to simply say it wasn't.... I dont really know how to adress your concerns. So i have a good idea of what it wasnt - which is less than 4o mile to the city center, and also what there isnt - which is  buildings taller than 400 ft if my memory serves correctly, never mind 5 of them in close order  prob more like 250 ft for most santo domingo highrises)... Go ahead and correct me.

 But what i dont know is exactly what happens at the horizon. Youtuber "peabody" (?), or perhaps his youtube name is "mister thrive and survive"; and probably others - they talk about the horizon ramping up to eye level (?and behind that it is all flat?) - i may not be understanding it quite right, but at least it is a lead for others. This would explain possibly why the bottom of things are obscurred.

I will reply further to the rest of your post, if i can, in a bit.
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

Just in response to your first couple assertions, I have a much better idea about where i was then you do... right? We were on a catamaran boat (like 2 canoes with a platform connecting them for a deck) and this is not a high deck so like maybe 7 feet elevation from sea level. This was stated in the previous thread ("some pics" in fe general) so for you to simply say it wasn't.... I dont really know how to adress your concerns. So i have a good idea of what it wasnt - which is less than 4o mile to the city center, and also what there isnt - which is  buildings taller than 400 ft if my memory serves correctly, never mind 5 of them in close order  prob more like 250 ft for most santo domingo highrises)... Go ahead and correct me.

 But what i dont know is exactly what happens at the horizon. Youtuber "peabody" (?), or perhaps his youtube name is "mister thrive and survive"; and probably others - they talk about the horizon ramping up to eye level (?and behind that it is all flat?) - i may not be understanding it quite right, but at least it is a lead for others. This would explain possibly why the bottom of things are obscurred.

I will reply further to the rest of your post, if i can, in a bit.

Faded, I will only engage on discussion with you over this, if you are truly interested in arriving at the truth.

To arrive at the truth, you need to be honest regarding the photo. At first glance, it looks like the photo was taken from a high elevation above the sea. It also looks like it was a quick photo as the horizon is not horizontal, it's on a slant.

You took the photo. So, you need to provide the exact information on how high the deck is above sea level. Then, you need to provide how tall you are to help work out how high the lens of the camera is from the surface of the ocean.

Next, you say you are on a catamaran? Are you moored at a dock, or floating in the ocean? Do you know the exact X, Y coordinates of where you were when you took the photo?

Next, you need to be clear of the direction you are looking  and what you are looking at. You also need to be specific with how many storeys and how high those buildings you are looking at, are.

Lastly, you also need to know what the refractive index was like for that area of ocean, at the specific time and date you took the photo. High humidity could be a major reason you could see more of the buildings than perhaps you would see during less humidity and evaporation.

There is a ton of information you need to provide, Faded. I am very confident, that if you are truthful and the information you provide is accurate, your photo can be explained within the parameters of globe earth dimensions and natural phenomena and your mystery solved.

*

Timeisup

  • 4048
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Hey guys.

Just looking for some feedback, why is this most evidently incorrect, what am i not seeing.

https://postimg.cc/F74bxMvV

This pic shows the missing curvature. It is from Dominican Republic, i believe S.E. part of the island from about Batey el Soco harbour looking west 40 to 50 miles to Santo Domingo at highrises (building cluster in middle of pic) less than 400 feet tall - you can see half or more of the buildiings. There should be 900 to 1700 ft of curvature in between. Even if they did drop me off on some other island as it might seem jack black and stash were insinuating, i know we drove approx 45 mins at approx 80km per hr to get there, starting east of the city.

So the short version of my thinking is that the curvature happens over the head of each individual. This spherical effect to looking at the sky, i believe, maybe demonstrated by the moon terminator illusion, where the illuminated side of the moon, when in the sky with the sun at the same time, is not directly facing the sun, but off a little. I looked into the moon terminator illusion awhile back but found that i could not reason away the official explanation completely and left it at that, now having seen someone bring it up again on here and seeing defer to wikipedia page where it looks like they are just saying it is an illusion and nothing more is really said. Seems they say - 1 "this is because students learn planar geometry first"... ok why cant you lay a plane on the triangle that make the sun / moon / observer, and 2 "this is an axiom..." (?). Something quite similar to this, That was all i could garnish from wikipedia - was i missing something?

So i believe the ancients used to say the sky is spherical - what is the direct evidence that the curvature of the angle to heavenly bodies moving throught the sky is not happening in the sky and instead it is the earth they are going around.

Look Mike whatever stuff you dredge up from who knows where it’s all just nonsense.

The Earth is a sphere. There is no argument about its nature which has been known for at least 2000 years. It’s certainly not hot news.

All this nonesense about it being flat is just something for people with more time on their hands than sense to get all in a lather about.

If you want to find out about things forget the internet and pop down to your local library and look at some books on the subject. Thats a much better idea than looking at some dubious videos someone has posted on the internet.

The question is why do you want to believe some unknown individual rather than conventional science? Why do you take the word of some nutjob over that of world science. There is no disagree among all the scientists in the world about the shape of the earth. So why believe some lone nutter? Is that what you call free thinking?

You flat earthers go on about free thinking where as what you indulge in in no-thinking choosing to believe in any old clap trap.

Do yourself a favour and grab some books.
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

faded mike

  • 2731
  • I'm thinkin flat
Just in response to your first couple assertions, I have a much better idea about where i was then you do... right? We were on a catamaran boat (like 2 canoes with a platform connecting them for a deck) and this is not a high deck so like maybe 7 feet elevation from sea level. This was stated in the previous thread ("some pics" in fe general) so for you to simply say it wasn't.... I dont really know how to adress your concerns. So i have a good idea of what it wasnt - which is less than 4o mile to the city center, and also what there isnt - which is  buildings taller than 400 ft if my memory serves correctly, never mind 5 of them in close order  prob more like 250 ft for most santo domingo highrises)... Go ahead and correct me.

 But what i dont know is exactly what happens at the horizon. Youtuber "peabody" (?), or perhaps his youtube name is "mister thrive and survive"; and probably others - they talk about the horizon ramping up to eye level (?and behind that it is all flat?) - i may not be understanding it quite right, but at least it is a lead for others. This would explain possibly why the bottom of things are obscurred.

I will reply further to the rest of your post, if i can, in a bit.

Faded, I will only engage on discussion with you over this, if you are truly interested in arriving at the truth.

To arrive at the truth, you need to be honest regarding the photo. At first glance, it looks like the photo was taken from a high elevation above the sea. It also looks like it was a quick photo as the horizon is not horizontal, it's on a slant.

You took the photo. So, you need to provide the exact information on how high the deck is above sea level. Then, you need to provide how tall you are to help work out how high the lens of the camera is from the surface of the ocean.

Next, you say you are on a catamaran? Are you moored at a dock, or floating in the ocean? Do you know the exact X, Y coordinates of where you were when you took the photo?

Next, you need to be clear of the direction you are looking  and what you are looking at. You also need to be specific with how many storeys and how high those buildings you are looking at, are.

Lastly, you also need to know what the refractive index was like for that area of ocean, at the specific time and date you took the photo. High humidity could be a major reason you could see more of the buildings than perhaps you would see during less humidity and evaporation.

There is a ton of information you need to provide, Faded. I am very confident, that if you are truthful and the information you provide is accurate, your photo can be explained within the parameters of globe earth dimensions and natural phenomena and your mystery solved.
What indicates to you it was taken from higher elevation than i stated? It was probably taken from lower than i indicated, now that i think of it i think i probably sat down because the little camera was zoomed in max and unstable, boat was not docked.

 Even if it was 2 feet higher, this hardly helps your case, i know the math - maybe finally you will explain this magic refraction you guys always defer to, because, again, what i know of refraction - up to 15 / 20 % ....What info do you have? Go ahead give a rough explan -ation of your math.
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

*

faded mike

  • 2731
  • I'm thinkin flat
But first you need to establish why you think it was higher off the ocean.
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

Just in response to your first couple assertions, I have a much better idea about where i was then you do... right? We were on a catamaran boat (like 2 canoes with a platform connecting them for a deck) and this is not a high deck so like maybe 7 feet elevation from sea level. This was stated in the previous thread ("some pics" in fe general) so for you to simply say it wasn't.... I dont really know how to adress your concerns. So i have a good idea of what it wasnt - which is less than 4o mile to the city center, and also what there isnt - which is  buildings taller than 400 ft if my memory serves correctly, never mind 5 of them in close order  prob more like 250 ft for most santo domingo highrises)... Go ahead and correct me.

 But what i dont know is exactly what happens at the horizon. Youtuber "peabody" (?), or perhaps his youtube name is "mister thrive and survive"; and probably others - they talk about the horizon ramping up to eye level (?and behind that it is all flat?) - i may not be understanding it quite right, but at least it is a lead for others. This would explain possibly why the bottom of things are obscurred.

I will reply further to the rest of your post, if i can, in a bit.

Faded, I will only engage on discussion with you over this, if you are truly interested in arriving at the truth.

To arrive at the truth, you need to be honest regarding the photo. At first glance, it looks like the photo was taken from a high elevation above the sea. It also looks like it was a quick photo as the horizon is not horizontal, it's on a slant.

You took the photo. So, you need to provide the exact information on how high the deck is above sea level. Then, you need to provide how tall you are to help work out how high the lens of the camera is from the surface of the ocean.

Next, you say you are on a catamaran? Are you moored at a dock, or floating in the ocean? Do you know the exact X, Y coordinates of where you were when you took the photo?

Next, you need to be clear of the direction you are looking  and what you are looking at. You also need to be specific with how many storeys and how high those buildings you are looking at, are.

Lastly, you also need to know what the refractive index was like for that area of ocean, at the specific time and date you took the photo. High humidity could be a major reason you could see more of the buildings than perhaps you would see during less humidity and evaporation.

There is a ton of information you need to provide, Faded. I am very confident, that if you are truthful and the information you provide is accurate, your photo can be explained within the parameters of globe earth dimensions and natural phenomena and your mystery solved.
What indicates to you it was taken from higher elevation than i stated? It was probably taken from lower than i indicated, now that i think of it i think i probably sat down because the little camera was zoomed in max and unstable, boat was not docked.

 Even if it was 2 feet higher, this hardly helps your case, i know the math - maybe finally you will explain this magic refraction you guys always defer to, because, again, what i know of refraction - up to 15 / 20 % ....What info do you have? Go ahead give a rough explan -ation of your math.

I haven't implied the photo was taken from a higher elevation above the sea than you stated. I simply stated the obvious that the photo was taken at an elevation above sea level, meaning it wasn't taken at wave level.

You haven't stated exactly how high the camera was above sea level when you took the photo, have you? Or have you? You need to do that.

If this has all been discussed before in another thread, why did you create this thread? Why not reactivate that old thread? 

If you can't provide all the information I requested, you'll have to go back to the spot and take a new photo, and get the information requested.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 09:44:22 PM by Smoke Machine »

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JackBlack

  • 23446
Just in response to your first couple assertions, I have a much better idea about where i was then you do... right?
I haven't claimed to know where you were.
Instead, I have pointed out that based upon your own comments, you don't know where you were.
You are claiming missing curvature, when you don't even know the distance.

We were on a catamaran boat (like 2 canoes with a platform connecting them for a deck) and this is not a high deck so like maybe 7 feet elevation from sea level.
Are you saying the deck was that high, or the camera?

By sea level do you mean mean sea level, or above the water? Was there a significant swell and if so were you at the top or bottom of it, or somewhere else?

So i have a good idea of what it wasnt - which is less than 4o mile to the city center
This is based upon your assumption of where you were, and what you were looking at.
Something you are yet to substantiate.

Youtuber "peabody" (?), or perhaps his youtube name is "mister thrive and survive"
Is someone who repeatedly lies to try to prop up the flat Earth.

they talk about the horizon ramping up to eye level (?and behind that it is all flat?)
In effect, trying to use perspective to have the horizon appear higher, then ignoring it to pretend distant things wouldn't so they could be hidden by the horizon.
If you do it honestly for a flat Earth, then anything below eye level will appear higher and higher as distance increases, without end, approaching 0 degrees (eye level).
And things above the eye level will appear to get lower, but always remaining above eye level.

This cannot explain why the bottom is hidden.

There are only 2 ways I know of to explain why the bottom is hidden.
The simplest is that Earth is round, so with enough distance the object has "sunk" enough such that Earth, due to the curve, blocks the view.
The other is that light bends upwards, so light from the object to you initially goes down before reaching a bottom most point and going back up to your eye. Eventually with enough distance this curved light path needs to intersect Earth.
These both produce comparable results.

But necessarily, anything which results in the bottom of distant objects being hidden will defy the claims of FEers being able to see very distant objects.

Even if it was 2 feet higher, this hardly helps your case, i know the math - maybe finally you will explain this magic refraction you guys always defer to, because, again, what i know of refraction - up to 15 / 20 % ....What info do you have? Go ahead give a rough explan -ation of your math.
Refraction is not magical.
It is quite well documented.
Light, when passing between different mediums (including air of different densities), will bend towards or away from the normal depending on if it is going into a greater or lesser refractive index.
If you go from low to high, it bends towards.
If you go from high to low, it bends away.

Air, in general, has a greater density and refractive index the lower you are.
So light going downwards goes from a lower to higher refractive index, so it bends towards the normal, which is downwards.
And light going upwards goes from a higher to lower refractive index, so it bends away from the normal, which is downwards.

This means in general, light travelling through the air bends downwards.
This allows you to see more than you would otherwise.
A simple approximation based upon "standard conditions" is to treat the radius of Earth as 7/6th of what it actually is.
This changes the 8 inches per mile squared, which is really just an approximation for h=d^2/2R

Using 60 km as an example, with an observer height of 3 m:
The distance to the horizon without correcting for refraction would be 6.18 km. Correcting for refraction it is 6.68 km.
This changes the remaining distance from 53.82 km to 53.32 km.
This changes the expected amount hidden from 227 m to 191 m.

If instead the observer height was 10 m the end result is 186 vs 154 m hidden

Well?

What have you got to say for yourself, Faded?

I'm guessing you concede that your photo does not prove the Earth is flat, and you are happy and content it satisfactorily demonstrates Earth's sphericity. Welcome back!

*

Timeisup

  • 4048
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Hey guys.

Just looking for some feedback, why is this most evidently incorrect, what am i not seeing.

https://postimg.cc/F74bxMvV

This pic shows the missing curvature. It is from Dominican Republic, i believe S.E. part of the island from about Batey el Soco harbour looking west 40 to 50 miles to Santo Domingo at highrises (building cluster in middle of pic) less than 400 feet tall - you can see half or more of the buildiings. There should be 900 to 1700 ft of curvature in between. Even if they did drop me off on some other island as it might seem jack black and stash were insinuating, i know we drove approx 45 mins at approx 80km per hr to get there, starting east of the city.

So the short version of my thinking is that the curvature happens over the head of each individual. This spherical effect to looking at the sky, i believe, maybe demonstrated by the moon terminator illusion, where the illuminated side of the moon, when in the sky with the sun at the same time, is not directly facing the sun, but off a little. I looked into the moon terminator illusion awhile back but found that i could not reason away the official explanation completely and left it at that, now having seen someone bring it up again on here and seeing defer to wikipedia page where it looks like they are just saying it is an illusion and nothing more is really said. Seems they say - 1 "this is because students learn planar geometry first"... ok why cant you lay a plane on the triangle that make the sun / moon / observer, and 2 "this is an axiom..." (?). Something quite similar to this, That was all i could garnish from wikipedia - was i missing something?

So i believe the ancients used to say the sky is spherical - what is the direct evidence that the curvature of the angle to heavenly bodies moving throught the sky is not happening in the sky and instead it is the earth they are going around.

How about these Mike:-

https://www.rmets.org/metmatters/stunning-images-newest-european-weather-satellite#:~:text=The%20satellite%20was%20launched%20on,on%20Thursday%204%20May%202023.&text=This%20level%20of%20detail%20wasn,from%20a%20geostationary%20orbit%20before!

The thing is you have a choice.

a) You can choose to dismiss the images due not to their validity but due to some belief that you have that overrides their reality.

b) You can look at these and other images and see how they conflict with your beliefs and ask yourself the question; what makes you not accept them as proof of our reality.

Considering that answer may leave you closer to the truth than you currently are.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 08:23:13 AM by Timeisup »
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

This spherical effect to looking at the sky, i believe, maybe demonstrated by the moon terminator illusion, where the illuminated side of the moon, when in the sky with the sun at the same time, is not directly facing the sun, but off a little. I looked into the moon terminator illusion awhile back but found that i could not reason away the official explanation completely

just look at this image I made

https://imgur.com/a/dP3nlzZ

only if you imagine the Sun on the lower orange line, at the same distance as the Moon, you'll think it's lower than the Moon, and that the terminator should look in some other way
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 04:46:52 AM by marco mineri »

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faded mike

  • 2731
  • I'm thinkin flat
So, is what we see at ground level usually more close to flat or the theorized curvature?
"Using our vast surveillance system, we've uncovered revolutionary new information..."
           -them

theoretical formula for Earths curvature = 8 inches multiplied by (miles squared) = inches drop from straight forward

kids: say no to drugs

So, is what we see at ground level usually more close to flat or the theorized curvature?

Shrugs…


https://flatearth.ws/toronto



*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18016
So, is what we see at ground level usually more close to flat or the theorized curvature?

Shrugs…


https://flatearth.ws/toronto

This image actually disproves your claim. If the scene was being sunken by the curvature of the earth and there was only standard straight line light geometry going on here, then the overlaid image shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon.

However, the buildings to the left of the tower are not below the horizon, showing your claim of what is occurring to be wrong.

Please refrain from blindly posting this random Anti-FE stuff you find from the internet. Come up with your own material. The stuff you are looking at is often wrong and has glaring holes, as demonstrated above.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 01:57:08 PM by Tom Bishop »


This image actually disproves your claim.

There should be no physical blocking of the buildings if the earth is flat.



If the scene was being sunken by the curvature of the earth and there was only standard straight line light geometry going on here, then the overlaid image shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon.

However, the buildings to the left of the tower are not below the horizon, showing your claim of what is occurring to be wrong.


How are large potions of the buildings not physically blocked from view?  Which would be impossible on a flat earth.  And confirms the dip of the horizon which would not occur for a flat earth.


https://flatearth.ws/toronto




Please refrain from blindly posting this random Anti-FE stuff you find from the internet. Come up with your own material. The stuff you are looking at is often wrong and has glaring holes, as demonstrated above.

What?  Easy proofs the earth is spherical where for a flat earth it raises more questions than it answers.  Like dip of the horizon and for a flat earth the why bases of the buildings shouldn’t be blocked from view at all.







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JackBlack

  • 23446
So, is what we see at ground level usually more close to flat or the theorized curvature?
In general, the theorised curve.
Not how plenty of FEers dishonestly present it, but how it should actually be, including refraction.

This image actually disproves your claim. If the scene was being sunken by the curvature of the earth and there was only standard straight line light geometry going on here, then the overlaid image shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon.
No it doesn't.
Yet again you insert assumption into the claim because you can't refute the actual claim.

There is a very simple explanation of why the lower down buildings have their tops visible, and so clearly distorted, refraction. You know about this quite well.
In general, it makes light curve downwards on Earth, making things appear higher, especially near the surface of water, allowing you to see things which should be over the horizon.

There are only quite rare cases where it does the opposite and makes things appear lower, and when it does the view is typically quite significantly distorted.

We see the top of the tower quite clearly, with it being unaffected by the layer quite close to the water, allowing us to see the effects of curvature making the building appear lower.

So this view is entirely consistent with a RE, but not at all consistent with a FE.

If you want to try claiming otherwise, try explaining how it would work on a FE.

Please refrain from blindly posting this random Anti-FE stuff you find from the internet. Come up with your own material. The stuff you are looking at is often wrong and has glaring holes, as demonstrated above.
Except it was not demonstrated.
You had to lie and invent additional components to the claim to pretend it had a hole.
We don't need to come up with our own material when there is so much already out there clearly showing FE is wrong, which you cannot refute.



This image actually disproves your claim. If the scene was being sunken by the curvature of the earth and there was only standard straight line light geometry going on here, then the overlaid image shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon.




Depends on where the picture was taken from..

Then, by all means,

This picture?



Taken from this park?



Where trails ascend more than 500 feet?  With the addition of viewing stand?



How much of Toronto should be blocked?


More here…

Views of Toronto From Hamilton Illustrating The Earth's Curvature



Lower picture taken from lake level in Hamilton that West correctly gives altitude in sea level of the lake in the video.  The upper picture was from a park above Hamilton 400 feet above the lake.

Location and altitude are very important factors.







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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18016

This image actually disproves your claim.

There should be no physical blocking of the buildings if the earth is flat.



If the scene was being sunken by the curvature of the earth and there was only standard straight line light geometry going on here, then the overlaid image shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon.

However, the buildings to the left of the tower are not below the horizon, showing your claim of what is occurring to be wrong.


How are large potions of the buildings not physically blocked from view?  Which would be impossible on a flat earth.  And confirms the dip of the horizon which would not occur for a flat earth.


https://flatearth.ws/toronto

Look at the images. The overlay shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon. They are not. It proves that the scene is not sunken, it's squished. You are mistaking vertical compression with a sinking effect.



However, the buildings to the left of the tower are not below the horizon,

Why are the lower portions of the buildings blocked physically from view at all.  Something that shouldn’t happen on a flat earth.

If you doubt refraction, is this real?




Refraction and the Chicago Skyline is covered in the below..

Four cases together show beyond a reasonable doubt the earth is curved
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=91626.msg2399565#msg2399565


Lower picture taken from lake level in Hamilton that West correctly gives altitude in sea level of the lake in the video.  The upper picture was from a park above Hamilton 400 feet above the lake.

Location and altitude are very important factors.


How are large potions of the buildings not physically blocked from view?  Which would be impossible on a flat earth.  And confirms the dip of the horizon which would not occur for a flat earth.




it's squished.

Really?  What is “squished”.  And what does it have to do with the earth’s curvature physically blocking portions of buildings from view where zoom cannot bring them back into view.  Which should not occur at all.

Like these additional pictures.



https://flatearth.ws/toronto


And you have no explanation why Chicago is blocked from view.

If the earth is flat.  Way is any portion of Chicago hidden in the example.




And you have no explanation why the amount of the Turning Torso blocked didn’t change while “zooming”


[/quote]




You have to use the below false argument.  The lie you been called out on.



« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 04:19:36 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »


  it's squished.

If portions of buildings that are physically blocked from view because of earth’s curvature is what you want to call “squished”, how do you un-squish.  Because it’s not by zoom.

And you have no explanation why the amount of the Turning Torso blocked didn’t change while “zooming”


[/quote]




 it's squished.

How is view from lake level from Hamilton “squished”?




https://flatearth.ws/toronto



Quote
Flat-Earthers like to focus themselves on the visibility of the brightly colored Rogers Center on the left side of the CN Tower and ignore the rest of the buildings. From its upside-down shape, it is clearly a superior mirage. Atmospheric refraction causes the rays of light coming from the Rogers Center to reach the observer. However, these rays of light become irregular as they reach the observer and no longer resemble the actual shape of the Rogers Center.

https://flatearth.ws/toronto


Why is Rogers Center upside down? 



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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18016

  it's squished.

If portions of buildings that are physically blocked from view because of earth’s curvature is what you want to call “squished”, how do you un-squish.  Because it’s not by zoom.

And you have no explanation why the amount of the Turning Torso blocked didn’t change while “zooming”



Actually it has been demonstrated that the Turning Torso video is also experiencing a compression effect.

In the following video pause at the 4:28 mark:

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">



See the "## px" overlaid red text on the image. At further distances from the tower, the more compression occurs. This is not a scene with straight line light geometry. There are multiple optical effects occurring here.

The compression at the bottom of the tower exhibits some similarity to the Skunkbay scene with the sunken peninsula. The sunken version of the peninsula is vertically compressed just above the line:



Source: 9/7/12 Skunkbay Timelapse Video - " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

It also matches up with what this Youtube investigator saw. A man observes a "sinking ship" on a ship with clearly distinguishable white text and designs on the side. When the ship is sunken it is vertically compressed.

Runtime: 10 Minutes



In the above video see the far and near views of the ship at the 5:00 minute mark:

« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 07:59:56 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 18016


https://flatearth.ws/toronto



Quote
Flat-Earthers like to focus themselves on the visibility of the brightly colored Rogers Center on the left side of the CN Tower and ignore the rest of the buildings. From its upside-down shape, it is clearly a superior mirage. Atmospheric refraction causes the rays of light coming from the Rogers Center to reach the observer. However, these rays of light become irregular as they reach the observer and no longer resemble the actual shape of the Rogers Center.

https://flatearth.ws/toronto


Why is Rogers Center upside down? 

You should be more concerned about why it is floating in the air at the exact height it would need to be at to be on the horizon to the observer, in accord with his specific distance away from it, for a Round Earth. When you think about this Round Earth situation for this to occur, it is obvious nonsense.

*

JackBlack

  • 23446
Look at the images. The overlay shows that the buildings to the left of the tower should be below the horizon. They are not. It proves that the scene is not sunken, it's squished. You are mistaking vertical compression with a sinking effect.
No, it doesn't.
Look at the building just to the left.
It should have a roughly semi-circle appearance.
Instead we see it as a box.
It shows that close to the water, there is significant distortion.

You are coming up with lame excuses to try to save your flat fantasy.

We see distortion at the bottom. How does this magically lower the top?

Actually it has been demonstrated that the Turning Torso video is also experiencing a compression effect.
You mean you try using the same excuses.
Why is the top getting lower?
If the BOTTOM is being compressed, how does this lower the top?

We understand how refraction works, especially when close to the water, and how it distorts the view.

You should be more concerned about why it is floating in the air at the exact height it would need to be at to be on the horizon to the observer, in accord with his specific distance away from it, for a Round Earth. When you think about this Round Earth situation for this to occur, it is obvious nonsense.
No, we shouldn't, as mirages and other phenomenon like that from refraction is well understood.
YOU should be concerned at why using the top of the building, which is not significantly affected, places the bottom underwater.

What this shows is the flat Earth is obvious nonsense.



Actually it has been demonstrated that the Turning Torso video is also experiencing a compression effect.

In the following video pause at the 4:28 mark:


let’s start with the above lie.

What “compression” effect.

Why do you think I use the gif of zooming in on the tower?




Because zooming in, the same amount of the tower is still blocked by the earth’s curvature





You should be more concerned about why it is floating in the air at the exact height it would need to be at to be on the horizon to the observer, in accord with his specific distance away from it, for a Round Earth. When you think about this Round Earth situation for this to occur, it is obvious nonsense.


So you do think this is really a ship floating?


If you doubt refraction, is this real?




For the below picture…



What building in Toronto looks like what the arrow is pointing too.  Why is a good portion of the tower bottom blocked by the earth’s curvature.

For the picture below from Hamilton at lake level, why is a good portion of Toronto physically blocked from view.


 it's squished.

How is view from lake level from Hamilton “squished”?








 compression effect.



What drives “compression”.  And how can I introduce it into the below example.  The only way I could make the bottom of the target at the end of the metal sheet to become physically blocked from view is by introducing a curvature.

Wanted to make this easy to find…
Why would you ever believe a flat surface cannot have horizons,

Ok.  Let’s see if a flat surface can have a “horizon” to block an object physically from view.

Let’s take this object and place a paper ruler on it. We will call it a stud.



Lets use a piece of sheet metal laid flat and see if it can block our object from view.



Looking out over the “horizon” of the sheet metal laying flat.



Looks like the whole length of the stud is visible?




Hmm.  Now let’s put curvature in the piece of sheet metal.  Like this.  Did have to weigh down the ends.



Looking out over the “horizon” of the curved metal sheet.



Well.  The bottom is physically blocked from view.

Curved metal sheet to produce horizon.



vs the flat sheet that couldn’t produce a “horizon” to physically block the stud from view.




Lots of what your trying to use has been debunked in the listed thread below…

Horizon did not block duck from view
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90722.0