Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #300 on: August 31, 2024, 03:27:27 AM »
Why pick hills, not buildings of known heights and only one height?



Why wouldn’t you use buildings surround by a lower surface?  Vs the muddle of hills thrown together?


I came across this video.  I think it is compelling and reasonable proof showing no doubt the earth is curved.

Quote

Turning Torso (190m tall) - seen from 25km - 50km







The rate the building is blocked by the horizon is reasonable proof of earth’s curvature.

Part four, the classic.  Ships disappearing bottom up.

During the video of “Turning Torso (190m tall) - seen from 25km - 50km”, the individual pans the camera across a near ship.



Then a ship farther away.




If that isn’t conclusive concerning the ship over the horizon.  There is always my go to ship video.

Quote










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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #301 on: August 31, 2024, 03:48:33 AM »
The horizon that appears to be 40000 feet high
No, it doesn't.

directly across our plane
Directly, or slightly off?

spanning over a thousand miles of Earth as a perfectly straight and horizontal line
You mean a CIRCLE!
A circle is not a straight line.

would be impossible above a ball Earth.
What we observe is entirely possible.
What is impossible is the horizon on a flat Earth.

You can’t have a straight line over a thousand miles across
You can't have a straight line which you can follow along all around you.
That is a circle.

To see the curve easily, you need to be high enough above that circle to be able to look down at it.

Now again, care to answer the questions?
Again, WHY 3 miles?
Why not 2? why not 10?
Why should it be THAT particular distance away?
Why does it change with altitude? How does it change with altitude?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #302 on: August 31, 2024, 11:16:50 AM »
Cidcle is straight line for lower dimensional beings

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #303 on: September 01, 2024, 02:33:17 AM »
Straight lines as we see it, the circle around one point is not actually a circle, we view it around us, why wouldn’t it circle around us?

We can move parallel to the horizon 3 miles away from us and that’s a straight line, no circle at all.


Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #304 on: September 01, 2024, 03:06:12 AM »
Straight lines as we see it, the circle around one point is not actually a circle, we view it around us, why wouldn’t it circle around us?

We can move parallel to the horizon 3 miles away from us and that’s a straight line, no circle at all.

Being on a sphere, any sphere, you are on top of it.



Ok?  Like the dip of the horizon?




Or this?





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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #305 on: September 01, 2024, 07:44:24 AM »
Straight lines as we see it, the circle around one point is not actually a circle, we view it around us, why wouldn’t it circle around us?

We can move parallel to the horizon 3 miles away from us and that’s a straight line, no circle at all.



Mmmm

Lools lile Turbo is a lower dimensional neing

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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #306 on: September 01, 2024, 02:02:26 PM »
Straight lines as we see it, the circle around one point is not actually a circle
Serioulsy?
That is the BS you are going for? That the circle is not a circle?

By definition, a circle is a circle around a point.
It is a collection of points equidistant from that central point.

So that is exactly what a circle is. It is NOT a straight line.

It doesn't matter if you want to accept reality with a RE, or appeal to your magical BS fantasy where a flat surface magically creates a horizon for no reason at all some distance away, that horizon is a circle.

We can move parallel to the horizon 3 miles away
You mean you can move your position, and when you do, the horizon CHANGES!
It is not the same horizon you are looking at.

Yet more proof that Earth is round.

Now again, care to answer the questions?
Again, WHY 3 miles?
Why not 2? why not 10?
Why should it be THAT particular distance away?
Why does it change with altitude? How does it change with altitude?

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #307 on: September 06, 2024, 11:20:20 PM »
When you move around in a circle, from one point on Earth, you are seeing thousands of different horizons, as you move around in a circle.  Not one single horizon. Many different horizons as you move around in a circle.


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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #308 on: September 06, 2024, 11:28:36 PM »
Horizons are not always three miles out, you just said they can be longer, and they can be shorter too.

Jackblack says the surface curves down at the horizon, say three miles away. As a physical curve. When we are higher above the surface at three miles away, there is no curve seen at all three miles away.

If it is a physical curve, it would be seen three miles away, but it isn’t there at all.



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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #309 on: September 07, 2024, 03:35:17 AM »
When you move around in a circle, from one point on Earth, you are seeing thousands of different horizons, as you move around in a circle.  Not one single horizon. Many different horizons as you move around in a circle.
As you MOVE you see a different one.
As you turn, you see the same one.
This can be shown even better with an ultra wide angle lens, where a single photo shows the horizon all around.

Horizons are not always three miles out, you just said they can be longer, and they can be shorter too.
Yes, something expected for the RE, something which is trivial for the RE to explain, yet something you can't explain at all.

Jackblack says the surface curves down at the horizon
Stop lying.
I say the surface curves the entire way.
This curve is quite difficult to see unless you have something to specifically try to see it.
Just like so many other curved surfaces.

It does not magically just start curving down at 3 miles.

there is no curve seen at all three miles away.
Again, try it honestly, YOU can't see it, because you aren't even attempting to look.

If it is a physical curve, it would be seen three miles away
And again, it is, if you know how to look for it.
Just how are you expecting to see it?

Now enough BS, ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!
WHY 3 miles?
Why not 2? why not 10?
Why should it be THAT particular distance away?
Why does it change with altitude? How does it change with altitude?

Do you have any answers at all, or can you just pretend your delusional fantasy should match reality?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #310 on: September 07, 2024, 07:00:11 AM »
Horizons are not always three miles out, you just said they can be longer, and they can be shorter too.

Jackblack says the surface curves down at the horizon, say three miles away. As a physical curve. When we are higher above the surface at three miles away, there is no curve seen at all three miles away.

If it is a physical curve, it would be seen three miles away, but it isn’t there at all.



Whst jacks trying tos ay is, there are 3dimensions.

Countm
3
Leftright
Updown
Foraardbackward.

The 3mi out curve is the forwaddbackward curve.
Youll see the horizon because thats how circles work.
The curve curves away.
Away!

The horizon leftright, yoy need to go waaaaay out because the ball is very large.


Look at these STRAIGHT carts arranged into a circle.
(Remember the question you never answer?   Whats the angle between segments of an 800,000sided polygon?)
Imagine you ran right up to one of those carts and look, from standing, down at the cart.
Would you see the massive circle?
Now turn and put your head beside a cart looking along the circle.
If you look at the sides, youll see the "horizon" of the circle curve away.
Do you see it "dip" away from you?
If you walked away from the cart (akin to gaininy altitude) eould you be able to see a further horizon?







https://youtube.com/shorts/jrJ-Z8pUdwU?si=L5Ep5lU5wRq9RbET
« Last Edit: September 07, 2024, 07:05:23 AM by Themightykabool »

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #311 on: September 07, 2024, 07:12:42 PM »

As you MOVE you see a different one.
As you turn, you see the same one.
This can be shown even better with an ultra wide angle lens, where a single photo shows the horizon all around.


This curve is quite difficult to see unless you have something to specifically try to see it.
Just like so many other curved surfaces.


there is no curve seen at all three miles away.
Again, try it honestly, YOU can't see it, because you aren't even attempting to look.

Now enough BS, ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!
WHY 3 miles?
Why not 2? why not 10?
Why should it be THAT particular distance away?
Why does it change with altitude? How does it change with altitude?


Huffy little man, calm down

Again, three miles distance is the average distance of a horizon seen approximately six feet or so above the surface. Not that it matters, just spelling it out for you, once again. Why three miles, not two or 4 miles, is simply because three miles simplifies it, but if you prefer 2.75 or 3.10 miles, that’s just as good, but what’s the point?  Do you get this now, and we can move along? 

You can look up why horizons are further away at a greater height, I don’t need to help you on that. Next…

You always make up bs excuses for your made up curve. It’s ‘quite difficult to see’ which means it’s never seen. It’s ‘too slight to measure’ which means there’s nothing of a curve TO be measured.

And of course, your made up curve can’t be seen over a thousand miles of the Earth’s surface, from planes, because we are IN those planes, and see and take videos and images of perfectly horizontal horizons, which are seen directly from our windows, rising up to 40000 feet in front of us.

When it’s risen up by 40000 feet, and perfectly horizontal across a thousand miles of the surface, or whatever, it’s kind of ridiculous to keep claiming there’s a curved surface over Earth.

When your side then shows ‘images’ from above Earth, the phantom ‘curve’ pops up,  out of nowhere!  Except your images are bs, and we’ve all seen there’s no curve at all from such altitudes, and those from higher altitudes are bs, they cannot be confirmed by us as valid, so they’re all crap. 

It’s really funny how your side thinks they can show bs ‘images’ with a curved horizon as if they’re valid images.

Any of them from plane altitudes will instantly be proven as fakes, or edited, or  due to the lens used. 

Don’t you think if your bs images were valid, that we’d ALWAYS see curved horizons from planes at such altitudes? Of course we would.

What a bunch of dishonest scumbags you are, at least some of you are.

You have no clue what you’re doing by supporting their bs,,or if you do, it’s fear and insecurity that holds you in, perhaps it is for money, or just because you want to be one of their toadies someday and get rewarded for defending these scumbags.

Anyone who avoids their lies about Saturn like you do is going to get their toady approval ratings, so well done, you reap what you sow, and that’s a lot of crap you’ve sown to this point, and you’ll reap it in spades later on.



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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #312 on: September 07, 2024, 07:37:38 PM »
I forgot to add…

Turning around a point, IS moving. And each horizon you’ll see as you turn, or move around a point, shows a horizon you didn’t see until then, only a part of the previous horizon.

If we simplify it into 4 quarters of a circle, you’d then see 4 completely different horizons, spannng 90 degrees across your view. 

A horizon is not seen as a 360 degree panorama, that’s why it has to be shown AS a panorama of 4 separate images of 90 degrees each, or 4 completely different horizons while turning in a circle from one point.


We move either by turning around in a circle at one point, or moving along a horizon in a straight parallel line to it. Both have different horizons along their movements, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being in a circle, and horizons are not circular, nor in straight lines, nor in zigzags, that is due to seeing them while turning in a circle, parallel to them, or in a zigzag motion.

Again, you’re so he’ll bent on supporting your ball Earth, you make a circle out of nothing, say horizons are circular, which they obviously are not.

They are viewed from across us, along our path, as we turn in a circle, or whatever else. Every one of them is seen as a perfectly flat and horizontal line, because Earth is flat, an immense plane. We do not look down from airplanes and see them as a circle, or a square, or any other shape. They don’t exist at all, they are imaginary, illusory horizontal lines we see across our flat surface of Earth.

Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #313 on: September 08, 2024, 03:13:36 AM »


Again, three miles distance is the average distance of a horizon seen approximately six feet or so above the surface.

While standing on the shore looking out to sea.  Why does a ship or boat disappear bottom up where a good pair of binoculars can change perspective, cut can’t bring the part of the boat or ship physically blocked from view by the earth’s curvature back into view.


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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #314 on: September 08, 2024, 03:15:25 AM »
Huffy little man, calm down
I am calm. I am just calling you out for you repeatedly not answering simple questions which show your claims are crap.

Again, three miles distance is the average distance of a horizon seen approximately six feet or so above the surface.
I know this.
I know the distance to the horizon varies depending on altitude.
I know the RE model explains this just fine, but your delusional fantasy can't explain it at all.

Why three miles, not two or 4 miles, is simply because three miles simplifies it, but if you prefer 2.75 or 3.10 miles, that’s just as good, but what’s the point?
The point is you have no reason for the horizon to form at all.
You have no reason for to be a particular distance away. A distance which is set by observer height and is entirely independent of tools used to observe the horizon. It is the same regardless of if it is using your naked eye or a high power telescope.
So the question for you is why should it be this distance?
What physical process is making it this distance away?
Do you have any answer at all?

No. You can just say it is that because that is what it is in reality because Earth is round.

The RE explains it trivially.
The horizon is the point at which a line from your eyes reaches Earth and is tangent to it.
For a relatively short distance, this is given by d=sqrt(2*r*h).
So for an observer height of 1.8 m (roughly 6 feet), that gives a distance of 4.789 km, which is roughly 2.976 miles.

Again, the RE model works, you delusional fantasy does not.
You have no reason at all for why the horizon should be that distance. It simply is that distance.
Until you have a physical explanation for why the horizon is that specific distance, your delusional fantasy doesn't work.

You can look up why horizons are further away at a greater height, I don’t need to help you on that.
I know why, because Earth is round.
But if you want your delusional fantasy to work, you do need to explain why. It directly ties into the above question, of why is it a certain distance.

Again, for a relatively short distance, this is given by d=sqrt(2*r*h).
Notice the dependence on h in the formula?
So as you get higher, the horizon gets further away.

Again, until you can explain why, and tell us how far away the horizon is for a given altitude, your delusional fantasy doesn't work.

You always make up bs excuses for your made up curve.
Calling out your dishonest BS is not making up excuses.

It’s ‘quite difficult to see’ which means it’s never seen.
No, it is seen all the time.
Every time you see the horizon you are seeing the curve.
Just like you do when you look at the edge of a ball.

You just lie to everyone by claiming that magically happens on a flat Earth.

It is that if you only look at a tiny portion of Earth you will not see it.
e.g. if you look at a 1 m wide length of Earth, you will not see the approximately 80 nm drop from one end to the other (or 20 nm drop from the centre to the end).

It’s ‘too slight to measure’ which means there’s nothing of a curve TO be measured.
No it isn't. That has already been pointed out as a lie repeatedly.
It is too slight to measure with simple equipment over a short distance.
But using theodolites over long distances you can measure it.

And of course, your made up curve can’t be seen over a thousand miles of the Earth’s surface, from planes, because we are IN those planes
Firstly, in a plane you can't see out for thousands of miles.

At the cruising altitude of planes, the horizon is roughly 300 to 400 km away.
That would mean even if you could see all the way around you would only a horizon which is roughly 1600 miles at best.

Yet again you are just making up big numbers to pretend it is significant.

But more important, we do see the curve.
We see it with the horizon. We see it with being able to see further as we get higher.

Just what do you think is missing?
Why don't you try explaining just how we are meant to be seeing this curvature.

perfectly horizontal horizons
Firstly, it is never perfect.
More importantly, we expect horizontal horizons on the RE.
The FE is the one which we shouldn't expect it on.

rising up to 40000 feet in front of us.
No, it doesn't. You are lying yet again.
It doesn't rise at all.
Why not be honest and just describe the angle of elevation or angle of dip?

Why not go one step further and actually admit it does not rise to being level.
The horizon has a measurable angle of dip.
But if you are just using your eyes, with no reference at all, you can't tell, because your eyes simply can't tell if something is slightly above or below level.
If you had a reference you would be able to easily see that when in a plane. You can even do this on a mountain, and has been shown to you repeatedly, with you ignoring it because it doesn't match your delusional fantasy.

Stop lying, start trying to deal with reality.

When it’s risen up by 40000 feet, and perfectly horizontal across a thousand miles of the surface, or whatever, it’s kind of ridiculous to keep claiming there’s a curved surface over Earth.
So in your delusional fantasy?

Good thing we live in reality and not your delusional fantasy.

When your side then shows ‘images’ from above Earth, the phantom ‘curve’ pops up,  out of nowhere!
No, it doesn't.
It is always there, you are just looking at it from a different angle.

Except your images are bs
You mean you dismiss them as BS, because you can't handle reality.
You can't actually show any fault with them and instead need to repeatedly lie about them.

we’ve all seen there’s no curve at all
No, you haven't.
You appeal to your wilful ignorance to pretend there is no curve.

You cannot articulate just what you expect to see which is allegedly missing. You can just boldly proclaim it is magically absent.

they cannot be confirmed by us as valid
They can be confirmed by you. No one is stopping you from launching your own rocket.
You simply don't want to. Yet again, you appeal to your wilful ignorance to dismiss evidence that shows your fantasy is crap.
You CHOOSING to make no attempt at all to validate it just means your argument is crap. It does not make those images crap.

we’d ALWAYS see curved horizons
I am yet to see a horizon which is not curved.

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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #315 on: September 08, 2024, 03:26:40 AM »
What a bunch of dishonest scumbags you are, at least some of you are.
You mean you are.
Where you repeat the same refuted BS, and being entirely incapable of answering trivially questions that show your claims are pure BS.
You can't refute the RE so you just lie about it.

You have no clue what you’re doing by supporting their bs
I'm not supporting their BS, I'm refuting yours. YOU are the dishonest lying scumbag, not them.

\
Saturn
Wrong thread. Stop deflecting. We all knows your lies about Saturn. No need to bring them up here.

Turning around a point, IS moving. And each horizon you’ll see as you turn, or move around a point, shows a horizon you didn’t see until then, only a part of the previous horizon.
And more delusional BS.
When we rotate, we see the same horizon, just a different portion of it.
A human has a FOV of almost 180 degrees horizontally.
That means if you turn 45 degrees, you will still being seeing roughly 145 degrees of your previous view. That entire portion is still the same horizon, and we see it continue.
There is no magical end to the first horizon and a start to a second horizon. It is the one continuous horizon.

If we simplify it into 4 quarters of a circle, you’d then see 4 completely different horizons, spanning 90 degrees across your view.
You mean if you dishonestly cut it up into 4 corners of a circle you can 4 different fragments of the same horizon spanning 90 degrees.

Your dishonest BS is like saying if someone gets a large ring (like a hula hoop) and places it around you, and you look at it, it is not the one hula hoop. Instead it is magically loads of different hula hoops.
You truly are desperate to reject reality.

A horizon is not seen as a 360 degree panorama
Depends what you use to view it.
With the right lenses you can get it in a single photo.

a panorama of 4 separate images of 90 degrees each, or 4 completely different horizons while turning in a circle from one point.
Not how that works at all.
The panorama works by stitching together multiple images with regions of overlap.

We move either by turning around in a circle at one point, or moving along a horizon in a straight parallel line to it.
They are fundamentally different.
By turning around, you see the horizon continue, all the way around, as a single circular horizon.
If you instead move in a path along the surface of Earth, we see different things come into view and go out of view, seeing a different horizon.
You can easily test this with a small ball.

horizons are not circular
Horizons are the same distance away in all directions. By definition, that is a circle.
You not liking that doesn't change that fact.

Again, you’re so he’ll bent on supporting your ball Earth, you make a circle out of nothing, say horizons are circular, which they obviously are not.
You mean you are so desperate to reject reality, you will claim a circle around you is magically not a circle and instead is magically multiple separate lines.

Every one of them is seen as a perfectly flat and horizontal line
Again, nothing is perfect.
But they are seen as horizontal, because that is what they should be, because Earth is round.

If Earth was flat, there would be no horizon except the edge.

We do not look down from airplanes and see them as a circle
Because you typically follow it in all directions because the plane is in the way, and you aren't looking down enough.
To use your naked eyes, you need to get quite high to be able to look down and see it as a circle.

They don’t exist at all, they are imaginary, illusory horizontal lines we see across our flat surface of Earth.
The imaginary here is your fantasy Earth, where you have a magical flat surface magically making a horizon.

The actual horizon, observed in reality, is real. Based upon simple geometry.
It is just as real as the edge of any other ball.
This is a real physical phenomenon. Nothing imaginary or illusory about it.
Your wilful ignorance of reality will not change that.

Now again, STOP WITH THE BS AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!

Why is the horizon in your delusional fantasy of insanity located a certain distance away?
What physical phenomenon makes it appear that distance away?
Can you answer this at all?
If not, for once in your life can you be honest enough to admit you have no answer, you have no explanation for why the horizon should appear a certain distance away in your delusional fantasy?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #316 on: September 09, 2024, 06:54:44 AM »
Horizons are not always three miles out, you just said they can be longer, and they can be shorter too.

Jackblack says the surface curves down at the horizon, say three miles away. As a physical curve. When we are higher above the surface at three miles away, there is no curve seen at all three miles away.

If it is a physical curve, it would be seen three miles away, but it isn’t there at all.



Whst jacks trying tos ay is, there are 3dimensions.

Countm
3
Leftright
Updown
Foraardbackward.

The 3mi out curve is the forwaddbackward curve.
Youll see the horizon because thats how circles work.
The curve curves away.
Away!

The horizon leftright, yoy need to go waaaaay out because the ball is very large.


Look at these STRAIGHT carts arranged into a circle.
(Remember the question you never answer?   Whats the angle between segments of an 800,000sided polygon?)
Imagine you ran right up to one of those carts and look, from standing, down at the cart.
Would you see the massive circle?
Now turn and put your head beside a cart looking along the circle.
If you look at the sides, youll see the "horizon" of the circle curve away.
Do you see it "dip" away from you?
If you walked away from the cart (akin to gaininy altitude) eould you be able to see a further horizon?













Come on turbo
A circle made out of straight linedshopping carts
They exiat or not?



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiNtQRAq8Qu-P_B5-5TWqV5C80hXlddNYVhg&s
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiNtQRAq8Qu-P_B5-5TWqV5C80hXlddNYVhg&s

https://recyclenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/applied_geometry1.jpg
https://recyclenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/applied_geometry1.jpg

https://recyclenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bosslet-double_teaser.jpg
https://recyclenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/bosslet-double_teaser.jpg

https://64.media.tumblr.com/00f6660b9d802aa47fda0fb92f7d7b63/6988a8ace8c37d86-2d/s1280x1920/238d7fd71d5cf0f3df95ee0609a032974e95254c.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/00f6660b9d802aa47fda0fb92f7d7b63/6988a8ace8c37d86-2d/s1280x1920/238d7fd71d5cf0f3df95ee0609a032974e95254c.jpg
« Last Edit: September 09, 2024, 12:49:25 PM by Themightykabool »

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #317 on: September 20, 2024, 11:00:39 PM »
The edges of a ball aren’t horizons. They curve out of sight, like a slope from atop a mountain does.

Draw a curved surface, as large as you want.

When you draw the largest surface which is curved, it must always be curved, and never at all be flat.

If you believe Earths surface is curving down by 8 inches per one mile, and curving down more by 16 inches over 2 miles, and by 72 inches over 3 miles, let’s say, it would curve downward more and more with more distance. It’s less and less like a flat surface is, with more distance over it.

Look at a ball, and imagine you’re a tiny speck on it.

Expand a ball so large in size, to be Earth in size.

If you are above the ball, you will see further over it, but it will curve down more and more away from your viewpoint.

When we are higher and higher above Earth, we always see the surface appear to rise up with us, which means that if Earths surface was curved, yet still rise up to us at 40000 feet above it, the Earth would be hundreds of times larger than you claim it is.

Because it looks flat over a thousand miles of surface, and has no indication it is curving downward yet. A curved surface must go downward at some point over it.

Going higher above a ball we would see less and less of the surface as it keeps curving down more and more.

When we see a horizon from 30-40000 feet above Earth, about a thousand miles away from us, directly in our view, that is a thousand miles of more and more curving down surface that isn’t curving at all yet, any lower down yet, and cannot be a curved surface that never curves at all when going higher above it.

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #318 on: September 21, 2024, 01:07:05 AM »
What does a massive ball look like from above it, and how does it look from higher and higher above it?

Your Earth has a diameter of about 24000 miles around it, but would still curve downward more and more when above it higher up.

The surface of Earth appears to rise up to us when above the Earth’s surface, at 40000 feet above the surface.

The horizon is a thousand miles away from us, and a ball Earth would curve down more and more at such a height above it, and never keep on rising upward more and more in the opposite direction to more curving downward.


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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #319 on: September 21, 2024, 04:17:22 AM »
The edges of a ball aren’t horizons. They curve out of sight
Just like Earth, i.e. a horizon.

If you are above the ball, you will see further over it, but it will curve down more and more away from your viewpoint.
Yes, just as observed in reality, which you keep fleeing from:

Again, thanks for once again proving Earth is round.

When we are higher and higher above Earth, we always see the surface appear to rise up with us, which means that if Earths surface was curved, yet still rise up to us at 40000 feet above it, the Earth would be hundreds of times larger than you claim it is.
No, we don't, as shown above.

Be honest. When you are high above Earth and have no reference, you don't recognise any drop because you aren't looking for it and your eyes and mind and other senses are not accurate enough to tell if the horizon is at eye level or has an angle of dip.

And this is simple geometry.

Because it looks flat over a thousand miles of surface
That is your baseless claim you are yet to substantiate in any way.

has no indication it is curving downward yet.
Except the horizon, as repeatedly explained, with you entirely incapable of explaining how the horizon forms or just what else you are expecting to see.



Going higher above a ball we would see less and less of the surface as it keeps curving down more and more.
Only if you kept looking straight out through a narrow FOV, and only when it is quite close to dropping out of that FOV.

When we see a horizon from 30-40000 feet above Earth, about a thousand miles away from us
So in your delusional fantasy?
The horizon is not that far away.

any lower down yet
You mean that IS lower down, with you ignoring this fact because it destroys your fantasy.

Again, STOP WITH THE BS AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!

Why is the horizon in your delusional fantasy of insanity located a certain distance away?
What physical phenomenon makes it appear that distance away?
Can you answer this at all?
If not, for once in your life can you be honest enough to admit you have no answer, you have no explanation for why the horizon should appear a certain distance away in your delusional fantasy?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #320 on: September 21, 2024, 05:18:23 AM »
The edges of a ball aren’t horizons. They curve out of sight, like a slope from atop a mountain does.

Draw a curved surface, as large as you want.

When you draw the largest surface which is curved, it must always be curved, and never at all be flat.





How is a tangent to a circle not the "edge" of the circle?

How did the coscto shopping cart circle guy make a circle out of straight edged shopping carts?

Why is there a "horizon" on the shopping cart circle?
Does the "horizon" positoon change the closer you get to the surface of the citcle?


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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #321 on: October 05, 2024, 12:21:32 AM »
I’ve certainly seen many horizons from planes, on a clear day.

I’ve usually seen horizons out of my little window.

About 16 inches long and 8 or 9 inches wide, or less on smaller planes.

A small port of viewing things out to the world below you from.

And the horizon is seen at halfway up the window. It’s directly seen in the middle of the little window.

If above a ball Earth, I’d not even see a horizon out my window, let alone halfway up it!!

Horizons cannot rise up on a ball Earth, nor any ball at all.

We can easily show what it would look like above a ball Earth, or any ball, that’s why they don’t want to simulate it.

It’s easy to grasp this, without any simulation, anyway.

Look at any ball. Imagine it’s Earth size.

The surface constantly curves down from you, least of a curve on the surface, more of a curve downward from you as you rise above it higher and higher up from the ball.

What we’d see of Earth from 30000 feet above a ball Earth, would be mostly below our view from our little plane window.

It would not have a horizon directly seen across from us out of the windows, that’s for sure.

When you said that perspective makes the curved surface appear to rise up from us three miles away, until the horizon, where ‘curvature’ wins over perspective…..right?

When you’re at 30000 feet above the ball Earth, how could there still be perspective making it rise up the same way over a much larger curve downward than at three miles away?

A thousand miles is a massive curve downward over ball Earth, and your curvature ‘wins over perspective’ at three miles out, where the horizon is directly in our view.

So with a far greater curve over a thousand feet away from you in a plane, perspective makes the massive curve into a tiny curve somehow, and curvature finally ‘wins out’ by a thousand miles away on the ball Earth!

The curve is huge, but it’s small to perspective!  Fits all sized curves as if it was the tiny curve!

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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #322 on: October 05, 2024, 01:21:03 AM »
I’ve certainly seen many horizons from planes, on a clear day.
All consistent with a RE.
Especially the fact there was a horizon.

And the horizon is seen at halfway up the window.
Now try moving your head, and see if it stays at the middle of the window.
I have seen it various points in various windows, as my head moves around.

Even if it was, so what? That means nothing.

If this is your pathetic attempt to try saying it is level, it is truly pathetic.

If above a ball Earth, I’d not even see a horizon out my window, let alone halfway up it!!
Stop lying.
If you wish to claim such utter BS, do the math and show just where the horizon should be.

If you want, it looks something like this:
Assume Earth is a perfect sphere.
Construct a right angle triangle where one side goes from your eye to the point tangent to Earth.
Then at right angles to that line, construct a line from that point that is tangent, to the centre of Earth. Complete the triangle drawing a line from the centre of Earth, up to your eyes.
Importantly, the angle subtended at the centre of Earth is a.
The distance from the centre to the point tangent is R, and the distance from the centre to your eye is R+h.
As these are adjacent sides of a right angle triangle, that gives the relationship:
cos(a)=R/(R+h).

We also note the angle (we can call it b) at your eye from straight down to looking up at the point tangent to Earth (the horizon) is 90 degrees minus a, as the angle sum of a triangle must be 180 degrees (and the remaining angle is the right angle, i.e. 90 degrees).
i.e. b = 90 degrees - a.

And we also note that the angle from looking straight out level to looking straight down is 90 degrees.
So the angle (we can call it c) from looking straight level to towards the horizon will be 90 degrees minus b.
i.e. c = 90 degrees - b = 90 degrees - (90 degrees - a) = a.

i.e. the angle of dip to the horizon is given by acos(R/(R+h)).

So putting in R=6371 km, and h=10 km, we get an angle of dip of 3.2 degrees.
Are you saying your FOV out the window was less than 3.2 degrees from the middle to the bottom?

Horizons cannot rise up on a ball Earth, nor any ball at all.
You have already admitted that is a blatant lie, and that the horizon would rise up on a round Earth, just not as much as in your delusional fantasy.

Why repeat the lie other than to show just how dishonest you are and how little you care for the truth.

We can easily show what it would look like above a ball Earth, or any ball
And yet you may no attempt to do so.
You don't even bother with trivial calculations.
And why is this?
Because you know they will show you are lying to everyone.
So you just appeal to vague BS instead and continually lie to everyone with no substance at all.

It’s easy to grasp this, without any simulation, anyway.
Look at any ball. Imagine it’s Earth size.
The surface constantly curves down from you, least of a curve on the surface, more of a curve downward from you as you rise above it higher and higher up from the ball.
What we’d see of Earth from 30000 feet above a ball Earth, would be mostly below our view from our little plane window.
It would not have a horizon directly seen across from us out of the windows, that’s for sure.
It is easy to grasp without simulation, with basic math as above.

But your delusional BS is just you imagining what you want to be true.

Why not try it more honestly.
Pick a ball, and imagine shrinking Earth down to that size.
You could also use other objects, like a large tank, that would probably be easier.
Consider just how close you would need to be to that ball/tank/whatever to be the same altitude as a plane for a RE.

Lets just say we have a giant ball, one that is 6.371 m in radius (over 12 m wide).
You would need to be 1 cm away from it.
If you got that close, it would basically fill your entire FOV when looking towards it.
Unless you had an incredibly tiny head, you wouldn't be able to have your head sideways that close to it.

When you said that perspective makes the curved surface appear to rise up from us three miles away, until the horizon, where ‘curvature’ wins over perspective…..right?
No. What I said was that as an approximation, you can use the formula a=atan(h/d+d/2r) to get the angle of dip to the horizon.
and more importantly, you can differentiate the inner part of it with respsect to d.
This gives you -h/d^2+1/2r.
If d is small enough, the -h/d^2 term wins and the angle decreases meaning the ground appears to rise.
If d is large enough, the 1/2r term wins, so the angle increase and the ground appears to get lower.
The question then becomes what is "small enough" or "large enough"?
Well the easy to understand is the point it changes, i.e. when that equals 0.
i.e.:
1/2r-h/d^2=0
d^2/2r=h
d^2=2 r h
d=sqrt(2 r h)

Notice the dependence on h in this?

For a height of 2 m, curvature starts beating perspective at roughly 5 km.
But as you get higher, it takes a greater distance.
At a height of 10 km, using that simple formula you get a distance of roughly 360 km.

how could there still be perspective making it rise up the same way over a much larger curve downward than at three miles away?
Basic geometry. You should try to understand it some time.

A thousand miles is a massive curve downward
And you are yet to provide a single instance where you can see that far.

your curvature ‘wins over perspective’ at three miles out
FOR AN OBSERVER AT A HEIGHT OF 2 m, not all the time.
Stop repeating this BS that has been explained to be BS repeatedly.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #323 on: October 05, 2024, 01:34:17 PM »

When you said that perspective makes the curved surface appear to rise up from us three miles away, until the horizon, where ‘curvature’ wins over perspective…..right?




EVERYTHING converges with persoective.
Not just the horizon.
The foreground isnt moving indepedently of the background.


Just like whats not easily notcied is the left and right also converging.

Does the left and right not also converge?

Do far away objects not get smaller all over for you?
They only get smaller in hieght? But maintain their angular width?

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #324 on: October 06, 2024, 12:48:50 AM »
Calculating for perspective is done over a FLAT surface, and uses only STRAIGHT lines throughout it. 

Here’s a source on it…

https://www.sfu.ca/~rpyke/perspective.pdf

There’s others to see if you want, they say much the same thing.

Math and perspective can only work together on a flat surface, with straight lines that converge together in the distance, with objects appearing smaller in the distance, of course. The surface is entirely flat, and appears to rise up over distance. And the flat surface which is ALWAYS flat as it appears to be rising, is seen throughout AS flat, and then will form a horizon, which is also a straight and horizontal line going across the flat surface.

You can’t use a curved surface for perspective, unless you accounted for the curvature on the surface, and only curved lines, not straight lines.

And as they note in this source, there is a vanishing point to perspective. It is not the curving down point, nor is it a curved surface.

If the surface WAS curved, we would draw it as curved, with curved lines everywhere. But it would not work well, since the curve is greater with more distance.

The reason we know the distance to all horizons at all heights above the surface, is because it is entirely flat over all distances, so it remains consistent at all heights above it to each distance of horizons.

And we have a formula for that, which uses height above the surface to calculate the distance to the horizon.

If the surface was curved, we could not use this formula. Because it would curve more and more downward over the surface with more distance, we’d have to plug in ‘curvature’ over each distance to the horizons at each height above the ball Earth.

Why didn’t you put in the curvature for your ball maths? It would exist, and must be accounted for your ball!

We don’t calculate perspective for a ball Earth. It would be funny to see it, that’s about all it’s good for.

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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #325 on: October 06, 2024, 02:41:17 AM »
So I see that after having your lies entirely refuted, you yet again ignore it as if that past interaction never happened and now jump back to already refuted lies?

Calculating for perspective is done over a FLAT surface, and uses only STRAIGHT lines throughout it.
Wrong again.
Calculating for perspective is done using basic geometry.
It can use a flat reference plane, but that doesn't need to be the surface.
If you are looking straight up, that plane is vertical.

Or are you going to claim that perspective doesn't work if you are on a hilly or mountainous environment?

There’s others to see if you want, they say much the same thing.
That it is basic geometry, which can't magically make things appear to sink into the ground and disappear from the bottom up?

Math and perspective can only work together on a flat surface
Again, they work on any surface.

And the flat surface which is ALWAYS flat as it appears to be rising, is seen throughout AS flat, and then will form a horizon, which is also a straight and horizontal line going across the flat surface.
No, it won't. It will continue to rise forever.

You can’t use a curved surface for perspective, unless you accounted for the curvature on the surface
Which I did, which you then ignored:
a=atan(h/d+d/2r)


And as they note in this source, there is a vanishing point to perspective.
Which is the point where parallel lines meet, which can be in any direction. Your own article even showed plenty going up.

If the surface WAS curved, we would draw it as curved
No. Most of the time we wouldn't, because we are lazy and that is harder.
So we make approximations.
Especially given for most circumstances, the difference is negligible.

The reason we know the distance to all horizons at all heights above the surface
Is because of basic geometry based upon a round Earth.

And we have a formula for that, which uses height above the surface to calculate the distance to the horizon.
Yes, a formula BASED UPON THE FACT THAT EARTH IS ROUND!

Do you know what the formula is?
If so, why don't you provide it?

If the surface was curved, we could not use this formula. Because it would curve more and more downward over the surface with more distance, we’d have to plug in ‘curvature’ over each distance to the horizons at each height above the ball Earth.
What formula?
The one I know DOES use curvature.

Why didn’t you put in the curvature for your ball maths?
I did.

For example, when I demonstrated that you are a lying POS when you said that you wouldn't see the horizon out your window, I provided this formula:
a = acos(R/(R+h))
Notice the "R"?
That is the radius of Earth.
So that formula does contain the curvature.

And as another example, when I demonstrated that you are a lying POS when you claimed the RE should always have the curve at 3 miles, I provided this formula:
a=atan(h/d+d/2r)
Which could then simplify down to:
d=sqrt(2 r h)
Notice the "r"?
That is the radius of Earth.
So that formula does contain the curvature.

Why bother with such obvious and pathetic lies?
Is your intention really to show just how dishonest you are? Just how little you care about the truth?

And do you know what is even more important than that?
You STILL haven't provided a formula.
You have continually fled from simple questions directly related to this topic.

Again, why should the horizon be 3 miles away?
Why is there an observable, measurable angle of dip?
Can you explain it at all?
NO!

Yet here you are claiming you have a formula.
Why don't you provide it?

We don’t calculate perspective for a ball Earth. It would be funny to see it, that’s about all it’s good for.
We do. Such as determining the distance to the horizon.

Now care to stop lying to everyone and repeatedly changing the topic?

Care to admit you should see the horizon on a RE outside a plane window?
Care to provide this magical formula you claim you have which tells us the distance to the horizon?
Care to explain the basis of this formula in your magical fantasyland?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #326 on: October 07, 2024, 07:42:16 AM »
But the point is the perspective-rise vs the curving-away-dip are not counter acting each other.

The curving aaay is away.
You no longer can see it.
The striaght lines you appeal to porve you wrong.
No long visible.
Due yo straight lines.


Draw a triabgle
Draw a circle.
Draw them overlapping.
Are you capable of that?

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #327 on: October 11, 2024, 09:16:11 PM »
A phantom curve they told us was true, but doesn’t exist at all, that’s why it’s never seen at all.

If it DID exist, we’d all see a curved horizon from 40000 feet above the Earth’s surface.

Horizons cannot rise up on curved surfaces, the highest point they are, to see them, would be from the surface itself. That is the highest point on a ball, no matter how large a ball is, you are at its highest point, and all around you is lower, no matter how slightly lower, it is always lower than you are, at any point on it.

Even assuming it is a ball, assuming the horizon seen on ground, or six feet up from ground, is a horizon seen directly across our view, about 3 miles away, in all directions outward, from one point….

What would we see of a horizon at six miles away, when we are higher up?

For us to see the horizon higher and higher as we rise higher and higher above a curved surface below us, cannot happen, it must go downward at all times, all distances on it.

When we see horizons directly in our view, from 40000 feet above Earth, it proves that Earths surface is entirely flat.

But if it’s assumed so massive a ball, that over a thousand miles of it is still nearly seen flat, like from the ground….

How large would the Earth ball have to be, in order to see a horizon a thousand miles away, without any curvature yet?

That is, if we cannot see a horizon lower at all, over a thousand miles of surface, how much higher up would we have to be, how much more distance over the surface would be seen before the horizon is lower and lower in view?

What do you think a ball looks like going higher above it?

Your excuse is about the size of an Earth ball, being different from any other ball, to be so big a ball, it seems to look flat all the time, with such a slight curvature over the massive ball Earth!!

Why can’t you say the altitude where it shows any indication of a curve? 

They’ve supposedly flown up thousands of rockets from Earth, into ‘space’, but never have filmed the surface of Earth outward from the rocket as it rises up from Earth to ‘space’!!

The problem they have, is we’ve seen where horizons are from planes at 40000 feet, directly in our view, so if they show us a curving horizon at 40000 feet, we’d know it’s faked.

So when they tried to make curved horizons first seen higher than 40000 feet, going from a flat and straight horizon into a curved one, looks goofy and fake. 

How would we see things from a plane if Earth were really a ball?

If Earths surface curved down and away from us, when we go higher and higher above the surface, the horizons don’t rise up at all. Not when it curves downward more and more over more and more distance of surface on a ball.

You can’t have horizons seen the same height over three miles away as over a thousand miles away, curving far more, far lower horizons than over one three miles away!

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JackBlack

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #328 on: October 11, 2024, 10:49:53 PM »
Yet again you have entirely ignored what was said and just repeated the same refuted crap.

You claimed to have a formula. WHERE IS IT?
Why can't you provide it?
Is it because you know the formula will show you are a lying POS and that it is based upon the RE?

You claimed the RE doesn't use curvature, yet I provided formulae where it clearly is used. Why don't you admit you were wrong? Or is it because you knew you were lying to everyone?

A phantom curve they told us was true, but doesn’t exist at all, that’s why it’s never seen at all.
No, a real curve, which does exist, and can be seen all the time.

If it DID exist, we’d all see a curved horizon from 40000 feet above the Earth’s surface.
And you do, a curved CIRCLE going around you.
This is not hard to understand.

And again, on a RE, the horizon is a circle centred on you, as a plane parallel to a hypothetical plane level directly below you.
The main distinction between the real RE horizon and the pretend magical horizon that FEers want to claim is the altitude. For the RE, it is roughly twice the distance below you as the FE fantasy.

e.g. when you are standing 2 m above the RE, the horizon is 4 m below you, while in the FE fantasy it is 2 m.

Horizons cannot rise up on curved surfaces
The ground will "appear" to rise. It won't magically go down straight away so all you see is a point.

all around you is lower, no matter how slightly lower, it is always lower than you are, at any point on it.
Just like if you are on a plane at 40 000 ft altitude, with no large mountains around, the ground is below you.

What would we see of a horizon at six miles away, when we are higher up?
Pretty much the same thing, just slightly lower.

When we see horizons directly in our view
If you mean directly level, you are yet to show that at all.
Conversely, you have been shown evidence the horizon appears to drop with increasing altitude.

Yet you keep ignoring this. I wonder why?
Is it because you know it shows you are a lying POS and that your FE fantasy is wrong?
Why don't you try addressing this?
Why does the horizon appear lower with increasing altitude?

But if it’s assumed so massive a ball, that over a thousand miles of it
Where are you seeing this thousand miles?

And no, it doesn't look flat. Do you know a big difference? THE HORIZON! something a flat surface doesn't have.

How large would the Earth ball have to be, in order to see a horizon a thousand miles away, without any curvature yet?
The horizon IS curvature.
And again, the horizon is a circle.
That is curved.
Just what are you trying to see?

That is, if we cannot see a horizon lower at all
We can, as shown to you repeatedly.
Stop ignoring it.
Every time you do you just show you are lying to everyone.

What do you think a ball looks like going higher above it?
That you see more of it with the horizon appearing lower. i.e. Exactly like what we see on the RE.

What does a flat surface look like going higher above it?
The exact same, seeing the entire surface, all the way to the edge.

So what we see in reality matches a round surface, not a flat one.

Why can’t you say the altitude where it shows any indication of a curve?
Because it entirely depends upon just how you want this indication of a curve.
For sane people, that is at ground level, with the horizon the same distance all around, with the distance to it increasing as you get higher.

If you want to easily see the "curve" you need to fit the entire horizon easily into your FOV while looking down.

They’ve supposedly flown up thousands of rockets from Earth, into ‘space’, but never have filmed the surface of Earth outward from the rocket as it rises up from Earth to ‘space’!!
They have. You just dismiss it as fake.

The problem they have, is we’ve seen where horizons are from planes at 40000 feet, directly in our view
Not "directly", just somewhere vaguely in it.
You haven't bothered measuring it. And you look at a small portion of it through a window.

How would we see things from a plane if Earth were really a ball?
Exactly as we do now.

If Earths surface curved down and away from us, when we go higher and higher above the surface, the horizons don’t rise up at all. Not when it curves downward more and more over more and more distance of surface on a ball.
Again, perspective doesn't magically stop.
The ground still rises up, it just rises to a lower peak.
I have already done the math for you and shown you are a lying POS just asserting pure BS to pretend your delusional fantasy is reality.

You can’t have horizons seen the same height over three miles away as over a thousand miles away, curving far more, far lower horizons than over one three miles away!
And you don't, as shown above.
Care to address it yet?


Care to explain why the angle of dip of the horizon increases as you gain altitude?
If not, care to provide the formula you claim exists and claim does not have the curvature of Earth in it?

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turbonium2

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Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo
« Reply #329 on: October 12, 2024, 12:36:49 AM »
When we can see a horizon on Earths surface, a thousand miles away from us, directly in our view, same as we always see them, only a consistent surface allows for it. A flat surface does.

What would the curve be over a thousand miles of Earth ball?

If you claim the curve wins out over perspective three miles over the surface, it curves more and more after three miles, where perspective lost out to the little curve of three miles distance.

Except you now claim perspective wins over a thousand miles of curvature?!

You said the curve won out over perspective at three miles of surface.

Get your lies in order, look what a mess you created with two different stories here!!