Airplane gyroscopic instruments proves FE made useless long ago.

Wherever you are on a ball is the top of it relative to where YOU are.

Yes, I understand this.
And this doesn't help your pathetic BS at all.

Again, I'm not saying you actually must be going up. I am saying your pathetic, dishonest BS doesn't work.
You can equally argue that you must go up or down. And that means both must be pure BS.

Again, you are always at the top, and always going level, not up, nor down.

Again, your pathetic BS has been refuted countless times with you unable to show any fault.
Repeatedly asserting we must start at A and go down to B doesn't make it true.
It says nothing why we need to use the starting point rather than the ending point.

It is just pathetic, dishonest BS you keep on repeating, because you don't give a damn about reality and are happy to blatantly lie to everyone.

And again, this does absolutely nothing to address the self-righting mechanism built into aircraft instruments because Earth is round.

No, it would descend each way, being always atop the ball Earth below it.

You’re babbling incoherently.

Quote from: turbonium2 on March 14, 2025, 08:45:24 PM

We can’t be under a ball, looking up to a higher part of a ball.

There’s only one viewpoint from a ball, another viewpoint is also atop the same ball at another position on it.

Stop using these stupid diagrams, they’re pure garbage.

And yet you ignore it’s all relative for objects on a sphere.

You can only be atop a ball, and all around you is downward from you. The top is where you always are on a ball, from wherever you are on it. You are always lower to others on a ball, others are always lower on a ball to you.

Assuming that the ball has enough mass to generate a gravitational field, down is always towards the center of the ball, regardless of where you are on the surface of the ball.  Anything else on the surface of the ball is at (more or less) the same level as you.

No, it is always a path of travel, not one point on a path,

One point along a line or one point above a surface isn’t level at all. There must be a path or length over two separate points to determine its path or surface.

How can you have a curved or flat surface with one point on it?  What is the surface - flat or curved - with one point on it?

You seriously don’t understand this?

It’s a point perpendicular to down!

That’s your ‘answer’ to it, right?

One point over a surface or line is meaningless you moron.  I’m not here to explain how to make toast or find your school, those would be better than what I’ve found so far!

Level has several definitions depending on the context.  Perhaps you should consult a dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/level

Level has several definitions depending on the context.  Perhaps you should consult a dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/level

Ask anyone what level is you moron! Dont tell me what it refers to or how it’s used or how people understand it, I’m not some effin brainwashed millennium without a clue. Though some have hope and use their brains

If you think ‘level to earths curvature’ is an old phrase, these  scumbags just made it up.

Use your own eyes and brain and tell those who don’t like your view to piss off. I’m with those who have the balls to stand up for the truth. We aren’t on this earth forever.  Let’s stand as one

Quote from: markjo on July 05, 2025, 08:48:20 AM

Level has several definitions depending on the context.  Perhaps you should consult a dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/level

Ask anyone what level is you moron! Dont tell me what it refers to or how it’s used or how people understand it, I’m not some effin brainwashed millennium without a clue. Though some have hope and use their brains

So you don't even trust a dictionary to tell you what words mean?  No wonder we're having such a hard time having any sort of meaningful communication.

No, it is always a path of travel, not one point on a path

And notice the contradiction here.
You want to talk about how the top is where you are.
That is a point, not a path.
So if you want to talk about how it varies over that path, you cannot just have that single point at the top.
So what you really need to focus on is an infinitesimally small region of it.
To determine what the direction is at that point, or that tiny infinitesimally small region.
i.e. you find the tangent to the curve at a point, and see what that is.
That allows a curve to be level.

Ask anyone what level is you moron!

And they will likely give you something like horizontal or perpendicular to down, or uniform.
Only a moron would say flat, because flat doesn't give a directional.
A vertical wall is flat.

Use your own eyes and brain and tell those who don’t like your view to piss off.

piss off

Quote from: turbonium2 on July 05, 2025, 08:54:46 AM

Quote from: markjo on July 05, 2025, 08:48:20 AM

Level has several definitions depending on the context.  Perhaps you should consult a dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/level

Ask anyone what level is you moron! Dont tell me what it refers to or how it’s used or how people understand it, I’m not some effin brainwashed millennium without a clue. Though some have hope and use their brains

So you don't even trust a dictionary to tell you what words mean?  No wonder we're having such a hard time having any sort of meaningful communication.

Not when they alter or manipulate or try to combine two different and distinct terms that were always two distinctly different terms with each one having a distinctly different definition to each of them.

Revising terms we’ve always known and are different from other terms and their unique definitions is called tampering with the truth, for another agenda behind it.

We’ve always known what level means, and it won’t change into something else because they tampered with their newest dictionaries, it doesn’t work at all.

These terms have never changed or been altered or revised over centuries or longer, the day they became terms with definitions for the terms or words of common usage and put in dictionaries ever since that time.

Words and terms and their definitions are written in stone, and never change at all.

So when they start to change terms and their definitions, this means it’s being twisted up into something they are told to do, or else its bad for them to refuse to twist them into what they want to see in dictionaries.

The good part here is that it never works out in the end. It cannot work. They mean two different things, not the same thing or half of it into the other term.

What indicates a previously defined term has been twisted into another meaning that never existed before that?

If a term was defined all along that same way, and so was another term with its own definition that never changed, because words don’t change their definitions, ever, they only have another meaning for a word, as slang, or with new technologies using the same words for other meanings.

But two distinct terms are not mixed into one term, when they are completely opposite terms and definitions for each of them.

To determine what the direction is at that point, or that tiny infinitesimally small region.
i.e. you find the tangent to the curve at a point, and see what that is.
That allows a curve to be level.

No it doesn’t allow for curves to be not curves.

Level is not curved, because curves don’t have anything level over them.

Instruments that measure for level are always based on straight and flat and horizontal measurements.

Levels do not, cannot, are not measuring for any sort of curves, they only measure for a straight and flat and horizontal line or surface or path of some distance.

Laser levels use straight beams of fine and focused sharp lights to measure for level, for they use straight beams of light to measure for a straight and horizontal path or surface or line.

It doesn’t matter how many times you claim that level is curved to be level, that level is level to curvature, it’s complete nonsense.

A single point on a surface is just a single point, and it could be on any surface from a single point on it.

Yes, I know what flat means, I know flat and straight and horizontal don’t mean flat as vertical, I said flat and horizontal, if you ever read what I said about it.

And notice the contradiction here.
You want to talk about how the top is where you are.
That is a point, not a path.
So if you want to talk about how it varies over that path, you cannot just have that single point at the top.

That’s exactly what I’ve been telling you all along.

When you are on a ball, it is one point you’re at on a ball, and you’re always, from your position outward, on top of that ball.

You’re not on a path over the ball, you’re at one point on the ball, not on a path over the ball.

No curved path is yet taken from your point or position on the ball,

To have a path over the ball, you move to a second point on the ball, thus creating your path between two points you travelled over the ball, and it is a curved path you have travelled over.

Get the idea now!

Not when they alter or manipulate or try to combine

Now try that again honestly.
They have a definition you don't like. And quite an old definition.
But because it doesn't fit your delusional fantasy, you reject it at all costs.

And why?
Because you can't defend your pathetic BS with rational arguments and evidence, you need to resort to lying about the meaning of words and playing semantic games to pretend your BS is true.

Here is the simple reality:
It doesn't matter what "level" means.
It does NOTHING to refute the fact that Earth is round.
If you want to say level must be magically flat, then fine, planes don't fly level, ever.
It doesn't change what happens in reality.

The good part here is that it never works out in the end. It cannot work.

If you know your pathetic BS can't work out, why do you keep pretending it can?
Is it because you have no integrity? That you don't care about the truth at all? That you are happy to repeatedly lie to everyone?

No it doesn’t allow for curves to be not curves.

No one ever said it does.

Level is not curved

Because level is an adjective indicating a direction, not a shape.

That doesn't mean a curve can't be level.

Instruments that measure for level

Measure for perpendicular to down, and can be used to measure a sufficiently large curve.

Again, stop with all the BS.
It doesn't help you. It shows how pathetic and desperate you are.

That’s exactly what I’ve been telling you all along.

No, that is what has been repeatedly pointed out TO YOU!
To explain why your pathetic BS doesn't work.

What makes a curve level to anything? What path is a level path? What are levels measuring as level with straight beams of light outward from them?

Curves are not level or horizontal or flat or straight at all. We never measure for a curve with levels, we couldn’t use levels if there were any curve to be measured for.

But we always use levels to measure for level, and not a curve is measured with levels.

Yet you claim levels are curved, what levels don’t measure for are curves. Just pretend that’s no problem and say that level is a curve you make up and say is there but not seen or measured for with levels, why not be a complete nut job like that? You are off your rocker, that’s for sure.

Quote from: markjo on July 05, 2025, 09:25:50 AM

Quote from: turbonium2 on July 05, 2025, 08:54:46 AM

Quote from: markjo on July 05, 2025, 08:48:20 AM

Level has several definitions depending on the context.  Perhaps you should consult a dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/level

Ask anyone what level is you moron! Dont tell me what it refers to or how it’s used or how people understand it, I’m not some effin brainwashed millennium without a clue. Though some have hope and use their brains

So you don't even trust a dictionary to tell you what words mean?  No wonder we're having such a hard time having any sort of meaningful communication.

Not when they alter or manipulate or try to combine two different and distinct terms that were always two distinctly different terms with each one having a distinctly different definition to each of them.

So you don't think that one word can have any number of different meanings based on context?  Are you on the level?

What makes a curve level to anything?

Yet again, you fail to understand what the words mean.
We aren't saying it is level to some other magic object.
We are saying it is level. FULL STOP. END OF SENTENCE.
The level is the adjective, which means every point along the circle is horizontal.

If you want to refer to it being level to some other point, then you need to understand what is meant by the word level.
In this case it would be the same altitude.
So each point on the circle is at the same altitude.

What are levels measuring as level with straight beams of light outward from them?

Nothing to do with planes. So stop bringing it up.

Yet you claim levels are curved

No, I state the fact that a level surface is curved.

a curve you make up and say is there but not seen or measured for with levels

Because that is not what levels measure for.
Again, levels measure for level, not straight/curved.
They have nothing on them to measure how flat or curved something is, so they cannot possibly be measuring that.
Instead, they measure direction, specially if the direction in question is perpendicular to down.

And again, none of this addresses the fact that airplane instruments have a self righting mechanism because Earth is round.

Because that is not what levels measure for.
Again, levels measure for level, not straight/curved.
They have nothing on them to measure how flat or curved something is, so they cannot possibly be measuring that.
Instead, they measure direction, specially if the direction in question is perpendicular to down.

What does perpendicular to ‘down’ mean?

Level means horizontal and straight across and flat across, from one point to another point over a distance or span or length of some distance, over the level, or from outward of a laser level, but all are measuring level as a horizontal path or line over a distance.

Curves have nothing at all to do with level, or measuring for level, curves aren’t horizontal or straight paths or lines, no level can be curved!

Any single point on a surface or above a surface can’t measure for the surface, don’t be so stupid to claim that bs!

When you understand one thing here, that a level cannot measure for a curve, that is absolutely true, levels cannot measure for curves at all.

Then what exactly ARE they measuring for? Not for any curves at all, so what else are they measuring for level?

For a horizontal path over a distance between two points along a straight line over the instrument or from out of the instrument.

Level is all points across a path of distance over a span of two points across a level or straight beam of light from a level, all are measuring for a horizontal path or line or surface!

When you describe level as a ‘direction’, perpendicular to ‘down’, it’s complete nonsense!

Level is indeed a PATH of a specific direction between two points over a distance, which is horizontal and straight across both points over a distance.

Over that distance or span between two separate points is being measured for horizontal and straight across and flat across the span or length over that distance.

What else could it be used for?

The fact that it cannot, will not, does not possibly ever measure for any curves, is because we don’t use levels to measure for any curves, we use levels to measure for a horizontal path or surface, and that is what level means and is measured for with levels.

Why would we want levels to measure for a curve that they cannot ever measure for? What’s the point in measuring with levels for if it’s not measuring for a curve? That’s completely absurd!

uote]

What does perpendicular to ‘down’ mean?

As in why gravity gives meaning to down.  Like how stash pointed out a smart phones uses accelgrometers to reference the downward force of gravity to know “down”.

 Anyway. 

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Quote from: InTheLoveLight on January 04, 2024, 08:22:46 AM

No, gyroscopes are independent of gravity; they work on centripetal forces. It is basic physics.

Are you referring to the gyroscope in the artificial horizon?  You get it’s not a plane gyroscope.  You understand it’s a system of mechanisms with a gyroscope?  Mechanisms used to correct errors inherent to gyroscopes?  Pretty smart creating a flight instrument that self corrects errors inherent to gyroscopes?

Quote

Quote from: InTheLoveLight on January 04, 2024, 08:22:46 AM

No, gyroscopes are independent of gravity; they work on centripetal forces. It is basic physics.

Quote

https://flatearth.ws/artificial-horizon

An artificial horizon, or attitude indicator, is a flight instrument that indicates the aircraft’s orientation relative to Earth’s horizon and gives an immediate indication of the smallest change of orientation. An artificial horizon utilizes a gyroscope to detect the change of orientation and pendulous vanes to continuously correct the orientation relative to the level.

Flat-Earthers claim that an artificial horizon should drift over time if the airplane is flying over the spherical Earth because the gyroscope will eventually drift and no longer points toward Earth’s center. In reality, an artificial horizon has a self-correcting mechanism, keeping the gyroscope upright if it is displaced for any reason, including by the aircraft’s motion following Earth’s curvature.

Where the artificial horizon in aircraft are designed to prevent drift from flying around a globe.  All a flat earther would have to do is charter a flight with a separate artificial horizon with the drift correcting mechanism disabled.  And just proof the drift mechanism is needed because the earth is spherical and just prove the evolution of why flight instruments evolved into the designs they have today. 

What does perpendicular to ‘down’ mean?

90 degrees separated from the direction to down.
i.e. 90 degrees separated from the direction a free-falling object would accelerate towards due to gravity.

This would mean horizontal, a direction the object can move without changing its potential (or level).

It does NOT mean straight, nor flat.

When you understand one thing here, that a level cannot measure for a curve

Nor do they measure for straight lines.
See the little bubble inside them?
What do you think they are measuring for?
The direction of down.

But again, this has NOTHING to do with planes.

Quote from: turbonium2 on July 11, 2025, 10:39:14 PM

What does perpendicular to ‘down’ mean?

90 degrees separated from the direction to down.
i.e. 90 degrees separated from the direction a free-falling object would accelerate towards due to gravity.

This would mean horizontal, a direction the object can move without changing its potential (or level).

It does NOT mean straight, nor flat.

Quote from: turbonium2 on July 11, 2025, 10:39:14 PM

When you understand one thing here, that a level cannot measure for a curve

Nor do they measure for straight lines.
See the little bubble inside them?
What do you think they are measuring for?
The direction of down.

What is your ‘down’ supposed to mean?  Everywhere below you in air is ‘down’ in direction, all sorts of directions in fact are ‘down’, so why are you trying to ignore what you really mean by ‘down’?

You really mean ‘straight and directly down at exact vertical downward’, right?

Of course, there’s nothing else it COULD mean but that.

Why are you so afraid of calling it what it really is?

Because it means it’s a straight and perfectly vertical line downward (and upward) to (and up from) the Earth’s surface, which is a problem for your ball Earth, but what isn’t a problem for it!!

And here we have a straight and vertical line of direction, down to the Earths surface, right? 

Tell me if you think it’s something other than that, because I’d love to hear your answer to it.

Do you even realize what ‘perpendicular’ means? It refers to a straight line going 90 degrees of another straight line, making them ‘square’ to one another.

Now you have two straight lines of direction, one which goes straight upward and vertical, to the other line, which goes straight across and horizontal to the vertical line, at 90 degrees square to it.

And here’s the biggest problem you have…

The vertical line which goes down to the surface, at ‘one point’, is perpendicular to the other, horizontal line going straight across the surface, in all directions out from that vertical point square to it.

The horizontal line remains perfectly straight and horizontal ACROSS the entire surface of Earth, it has to.

The first line goes straight downward to the surface at exactly vertical, exactly square at 90 degrees perpendicular to the line going straight and horizontal across the surface.

Each line extends out to infinity, one going up and down vertically, the other going left and right (and everywhere else) horizontally at 90 degrees to the vertical line, and stretches out to infinity as a horizontal line across the entire surface of Earth and beyond it to infinity, they must continue as they always are, two straight lines square to one another, stretching out to infinity.

I’m sure you know this, but trying to hide it behind weasel words like ‘down’ won’t save your bs story anymore than the rest of your bs does.

So the actual direction is STRAIGHT and VERTICAL, going straight upward into air  and straight downward to the Earths surface. Get rid of your weasel terms for it, no more hiding behind your mamas skirt, little man.

When you’ve got two straight lines that are vertical and horizontal, you’re pretty well f$);ed, and it’s a good thing, to all of us, in fact.

A horizontal line perpendicular to a point going in ‘the direction of down’, of a vertical line going downward to the surface.

Both lines of direction must be perfectly straight paths or lines, if the first line downward is at an angle off of vertical or is not a straight line, to then be perpendicular to the other line going across the surface, would not be a horizontal line across Earth anymore, it would slant up or down from horizontal. And any slant of that line would not work for either a ball or flat Earth, nor does it make any sense at all.

The horizontal line must remain horizontal across the entire surface, it cannot curve or slant up or down or stop extending out to infinity.

The only way for it to not extend outward as a horizontal line in all directions out to infinity, would be if it was not exactly square and perpendicular at 90 degrees to the downward line. 

The point above Earth which is level, which goes in the  direction of STRAIGHT and VERTICAL downward to the surface, must be truly vertical in direction downward to the surface, that is what you’re claiming here, and that’s where Im taking it from, your one point that is level to the direction of ‘down’, but filling in what you aren’t saying about it…

Any point that is level, is measured over a path or span of two separate points at each end of the span being measured by a level. All points over the span of a level are straight and horizontal in fact, assuming the instrument is accurate enough to measure for level to such a degree, of course.

Tell me what you think the many other points measured by a level, which measures them all as level, do not make them just as level as one point you say is the only point which is level!!!

A spirit level of say 3 feet long, is set down on a floor, it’s flat and straight edge touching along the floor over its 3 foot length.

This is a 3 foot long path of distance, which the level is set to over the floor, and that is what the level is measuring on the floor, a three foot long distance of the floor.

Every point along that three feet length of the level is being measured by it, end to end and all in between its three foot length.

Not that it matters to this issue, I’m just telling you the facts again. Your one point being level and down in direction fails too, so it’s over with either way.  Maybe even better that I’m using your own argument to destroy it

Quote from: JackBlack on July 12, 2025, 03:26:17 PM

90 degrees separated from the direction to down.
i.e. 90 degrees separated from the direction a free-falling object would accelerate towards due to gravity.

This would mean horizontal, a direction the object can move without changing its potential (or level).

What is your ‘down’ supposed to mean?

I already explained that.
Perhaps you should try reading what I said rather than just ignoring it like you always do?

Why are you so afraid of calling it what it really is?

I'm not.
Why are you?
It is down.
And like all things in life, it is not perfectly anything. Not even perfectly straight.

Do you even realize what ‘perpendicular’ means? It refers to a straight line going 90 degrees of another straight line

Wrong again.
It refers to 90 degrees, not straight.
You really love sticking straight in everywhere don't you?
Almost as if you know you are lying to everyone and that is the only way you can pretend you aren't.

The horizontal line remains perfectly straight

No, the horizontal line curves.
If it remained perfectly straight it would not be level.

Each line extends out to infinity

This would make it a tangent, and not level all the way along.
It would only be level at that one point.

Every point along that three feet length of the level is being measured by it, end to end and all in between its three foot length.

No, it isn't.
To understand why, say the floor had a dip in it, which the 3 foot level is spanning across.
Are all the points on the floor being measured?

Not that it matters to this issue

That's right. You are just spouting pathetic BS because you can't deal with the topic at hand.



Now care to stop playing semantics and spamming other BS and deal with the actual topic?

Why do airplane gryoscopic instruments have self righting mechanisms?

Any point

Care to address the actual topic of this thread. “Airplane gyroscopic instruments proves FE made useless long ago.”

What does perpendicular to ‘down’ mean?

As in why gravity gives meaning to down.  Like how stash pointed out a smart phones uses accelgrometers to reference the downward force of gravity to know “down”.

 Anyway. 

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Quote from: InTheLoveLight on January 04, 2024, 08:22:46 AM

No, gyroscopes are independent of gravity; they work on centripetal forces. It is basic physics.

Are you referring to the gyroscope in the artificial horizon?  You get it’s not a plane gyroscope.  You understand it’s a system of mechanisms with a gyroscope?  Mechanisms used to correct errors inherent to gyroscopes?  Pretty smart creating a flight instrument that self corrects errors inherent to gyroscopes?

Quote

Quote from: InTheLoveLight on January 04, 2024, 08:22:46 AM

No, gyroscopes are independent of gravity; they work on centripetal forces. It is basic physics.

Quote

https://flatearth.ws/artificial-horizon

An artificial horizon, or attitude indicator, is a flight instrument that indicates the aircraft’s orientation relative to Earth’s horizon and gives an immediate indication of the smallest change of orientation. An artificial horizon utilizes a gyroscope to detect the change of orientation and pendulous vanes to continuously correct the orientation relative to the level.

Flat-Earthers claim that an artificial horizon should drift over time if the airplane is flying over the spherical Earth because the gyroscope will eventually drift and no longer points toward Earth’s center. In reality, an artificial horizon has a self-correcting mechanism, keeping the gyroscope upright if it is displaced for any reason, including by the aircraft’s motion following Earth’s curvature.

Where the artificial horizon in aircraft are designed to prevent drift from flying around a globe.  All a flat earther would have to do is charter a flight with a separate artificial horizon with the drift correcting mechanism disabled.  And just proof the drift mechanism is needed because the earth is spherical and just prove the evolution of why flight instruments evolved into the designs they have today.