They've lied to the world about the stars

Skies do turn dark as the Sun moves away, and become brighter as the Sun approaches us. Who knew?

Skies also turn dark as altitude increases and the air gets thinner.  Who knew?  Apparently, not you.

If the Sun was so massive, and 93 million miles away, why can’t it light up the closer side of the moon yet somehow light up the other side that’s blocked out? Maybe gravity takes sunlight from outer space before it hits the moon, bounces it off Earth back to the moon, and nobody can prove it doesn’t happen that way!!

It gets better and funnier all the time

If the Sun was so massive, and 93 million miles away, why can’t it light up the closer side of the moon yet somehow light up the other side that’s blocked out?

The sun illuminates the side of the moon facing the sun.  Have you seen it where that is not the case?  Perhaps you're thinking of the moon tilt illusion, which is explained here:
https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~amyers/MoonPaperOnline.pdf

The reason most people accept the ball Earth story, the endless universe story, moon landing story, floating around in space story, and all the rest of these stories

Is because that is what the evidence shows. That is what makes sense. That is what works to explain what is observed.

Conversely, your delusional BS is not based upon evidence, does not make sense, and cannot explain what is observed.

It certainly isn't because people are just told it. Look at Santa and the Easter bunny and so on.

Why would they bleat it out to the whole world like it would matter as very important information to our daily lives?

They don't.
For the most part, if you go about your life pretty much no one is telling you it is a ball.

It’s very ironic ball Earthers say the flat Earth isn’t based on science or evidence or proof, while hiding real evidence and faking their own ‘evidence’

What evidence is being hidden?
Do you have any evidence that this evidence is being faked, or are you just desperately lying to dismiss it to pretend your fantasy is true?

Lies are very hard to protect, more so in future, and always fail in the end.

Which is why the FE failed.
And that is why you feel the need to continually change topic and deflect at all costs.
Because if you stick to the topic, your lies fail.

It’s the easiest thing to prove

And they have. Beyond any sane doubt.
But that doesn't stop insane people like you rejecting it all.
To you, NOTHING will ever be enough; if it shows you are wrong, you just dismiss it as fake.

Proving it is to simply launch rockets straight upward

Go do it yourself.
You have already had footage from a rocket going up, and you just say it is fake, or blatantly lie about it.

But this is the thread for you to justify your claims that long dead astronomers lied to everyone.
Not the one for you to repeatedly lie about rockets.

Stop deflecting.
It just shows how desperate you are.

You’ve excused everything they’ve not shown us

No. I have explained why your demands are pathetic and baseless.
If you want it, get it yourself.

If the Sun was so massive, and 93 million miles away, why can’t it light up the closer side of the moon yet somehow light up the other side that’s blocked out?

The sun illuminates the side of the moon closest to the sun.
So yet another pathetic deflection, one which has already been addressed countless times.
You may as well just outright tell everyone you are lying and desperate.

Ever walk under a tree when its mid day?

And it gets darker?

What do we call such a thing?

The darkness i mean.

What if you walked only half your body into the "dakr" part?
Are you all dark?
Half dark?

It certainly isn't because people are just told it. Look at Santa and the Easter bunny and so on

Of course we believed Santa and the Easter Bunny were real, because our parents told us they were real, but later on knew they weren’t real at all, it was all a ruse told to children who believe everything their parents tell them.

We were told about how Santa and the Easter bunny being real and we all believed they WERE real. And we were told that the Earth was a ball speeding through an endless universe, which is spinning around over and over at 1000 mph, but somehow, we’re luckily held down to the Earths surface by a powerful force within the ball Earth core, so everything on Earth doesn’t fling off the spinning, speeding ball Earth into endless space!

We’ve certainly been told a lot more things they say are true, than just Santa and the Easter  bunny were true as children.

They made sure to have a ball Earth ‘globe’ on display in nearly every classroom, for 1st and 2nd grade children must see the ball Earth every day in school, beside their teachers!

Why would 7-8 year old kids need to see a ball Earth in front of their faces every day in school?

Can you think of any better way to leave an impression of a ball Earth into our minds than that?

By 5th grade, seeing a ball Earth globe every day for the past 2 or 3 years, my teacher put a slide show on, after telling us how everyone up to the 14th or 15th century believed that the Earth was flat, because we knew nothing back then, only myths and fables, before science came along later, and proved that Earth was a ball.

The slides showed ancient ships on the seas, with giant sea serpents attacking the ships, while showing an ‘edge’ falling off the Earth!!

Why would they ever feed us that bs about the flat Earth?

They were the ones who stole the flat Earth maps and destroyed any others on Earth, and ‘revised’ them to a ball Earth they made up. 

Look at any of those flat Earth maps, you’ll never see any sea monsters or any edges of Earth  on them, they show our continents and waters, no made up continent at all, and some that show a circular boundary around Earth.

Most people had never even heard or ‘was told’ about flat Earth maps existing at all.

For some strange reason, they never told us or showed us these accurate and detailed flat Earth maps, just crude older maps of antiquity

The idea that this better footage will show Saturn as motionless. Yet instead of taking advantage of that to take a picture to get a nice high quality image, you want them to go and take a video.

That would be as stupid as going to a famous work of art, setting up a camera on a tripod, and then just taking a video.

What is the video going to show?
What scientific merit is there to obtaining it?

Because videos will show any motion of Saturn, or the stars. Because they HAVE shown videos of the moon and it’s seen as motionless, so why would they bother to take videos of the motionless moon when images are clearer than any videos of it?

After NASA had never shown any videos at all of Saturn or the stars, while showing us videos of the motionless moon over and over again, the excuse didn’t make sense.

WE were the first ones to show videos of Saturn, which we had ‘been told’ was seen as motionless, like the moon is.

I don’t give a s;)( if you believe that Saturn is seen as motionless, because it’s NEVER been seen, by anyone at all, as motionless. Don’t tell me people have seen it motionless, they just say they have, like a bunch of people say they saw Santa Claus flying over their houses in a sled, it’s worthless.

We’ve taken hours and hours of video footage of Saturn, with many different instruments, and a far superior one to theirs, because astronomers using that same telescope have never taken a video of Saturn either, but we can use iPhones to shoot a video through it!!

Don’t give me your bs excuse that it was taken by an iPhone, when those astronomers who’ve seen Saturn for years have never taken a video of it EVER!

I’m sure those great astronomers saw that video online like we have, and we’re not astronomers, or work at the observatory. 

It’s the very first video shown to us of Saturn through their telescope, apparently, so the astronomers there would be interested in seeing the video they took.

Nothing was ever said about the video at all. If it looked the same as always, they’d have nothing to say about it as different. Like if they’d always seen multiple distinct belts on Saturn through the telescope, and saw nothing of them on the video, which would be a very significant difference in the video, and they’d mention it, because it’s not showing it’s most obvious features, and they’d tell us that.

Your arguments are nothing but endless excuses you say are ‘answers’ for it.

Every piece of valid, independent evidence matches up, in various degrees of quality footage, while there is nothing of valid evidence supporting anything else.

Stop your bs excuse about all the videos of Saturn as crap, and not evidence, it certainly is evidence, the better ones in particular are very good evidence.

The stupidest argument you’ve ever made yet is when you keep trying to say I need to find ‘actual’ evidence for calling their claims being lies, after you realize every video shows nothing of multiple distinct belts, while they all do show the one large area within the orbs middle, and show it’s edges always changing in shape, indicating it is in rapid and constant rotation, as other features also indicate as well.

You’re seriously suggesting that they saw Saturn as motionless, since that’s the only way they’d be able to see multiple distinct belts and a fixed in position feature that slowly moved around to other positions.

If you don’t get this yet, I can’t help you out, nobody can.

I’m using this as one specific example of their entire bs story, it has to start with one point, numerous points at the same time are not needed, and turn into a mish mash. That’s what your side wants, to avoid the whole thing.

This is also a very relevant and important point. These are claims of Saturn as a slowly rotating ‘planet’, that are still believed as true to this very day, and supported by NASA’s own claims as true.

You also believe their claims are true, or believe they are most likely true, and think that I’ve not any proof their claims are lies, when proving it with all the videos showing them as lies.

Everyone but you it seems clearly understands that when someone claims to have seen something, it is up to them to show evidence and proof for their claims being valid and true.

Everyone but you also understands that when they have no evidence or proof for their claim, others can conclude, fairly, it was a lie, or an honest mistake, but that is based on everything else about the claim, especially if there’s evidence to the contrary.

I’ve shown you all the evidence we have, so when you dismiss it all as not any evidence at all, you forget that Saturn is shown on every one of these videos, none of them show any multiple distinct belts, any close enough all show a single large feature in the orbs middle, as they all match up by showing the same feature as the others do….

Their claims are the ones which require evidence for them as true, not others to look for, after they have none!

You’ll always deny any evidence they lied, you already did after the last video I showed you. The one taken through a far superior telescope, of course,

You lost your excuse about our inferior instruments to their scrapped antique junk, so you had to make up a new excuse for this video.

Two excuses as one, the first one about being taken with sn iPhone camera, the second that it was put online.

The online excuse would mean every video and image seen online isn’t valid, and you’ve put videos and images as evidence, making you a complete hypocrite.

We were told about how Santa and the Easter bunny being real and we all believed they WERE real. And we were told that the Earth was a ball speeding through an endless universe

And the difference is that there is evidence for the RE, not for the others.

They made sure to have a ball Earth ‘globe’ on display in nearly every classroom, for 1st and 2nd grade children must see the ball Earth every day in school, beside their teachers!

Nope.
You are clinging to a fantasy. My school certainly didn't have a globe in every classroom.

They were the ones who stole the flat Earth maps and destroyed any others on Earth, and ‘revised’ them to a ball Earth they made up.

That's your BS for the other thread.

For some strange reason, they never told us or showed us these accurate and detailed flat Earth maps, just crude older maps of antiquity

Have you considered that that is because you are living in a fantasy and appealing to things that don't exist?

We have an accurate map. It is a globe. It works. No FEer has ever been able to produce an accurate FE map of all of Earth.

Because videos will show any motion of Saturn

i.e. a complete waste?

Because they HAVE shown videos of the moon and it’s seen as motionless

At a much lower resolution.
It is much easier to have the moon appear motionless than a much smaller object.
As shown by the zoomed in videos of the moon showing distortions.

But where have they?

a far superior one to theirs

Which you ruined by filming with a shitty iphone that was too busy autofocusing to produce a decent video.

those astronomers who’ve seen Saturn for years have never taken a video of it EVER!

Again, why should they?
Again, if it is motionless, what would the video show?

so the astronomers there would be interested in seeing the video they took.

Why?
Yet again you just assume things with no basis. They likely wouldn't care.

Every piece of valid, independent evidence matches up, in various degrees of quality footage

Again, try it honestly.
Those independent pieces of evidence clearly demonstration something is distorting the view.

The stupidest argument you’ve ever made yet is when you keep trying to say I need to find ‘actual’ evidence for calling their claims being lies

The stupid here is you pretending you don't.
You say they lie, you need to prove it.

I’m using this as one specific example of their entire bs story, it has to start with one point, numerous points at the same time are not needed, and turn into a mish mash. That’s what your side wants, to avoid the whole thing.

No, that is what you want, as you have clearly demonstrated multiple times.
You don't stick to a single point, instead you continually jump around between a bunch of different points to pretend your BS hasn't been refuted countless times.

Everyone but you it seems clearly understands that when someone claims to have seen something

You mean everyone BUT YOU!
YOU claimed they lied, but have nothing to show for it.

Everyone but you also understands that when they have no evidence or proof for their claim, others can conclude, fairly, it was a lie, or an honest mistake, but that is based on everything else about the claim, especially if there’s evidence to the contrary.

No, they don't. Crazy people like you do.
Sane people recognise that different levels of evidence can be obtained, and not all claims can be readily supported by all kinds of evidence.
For example, if I say I had coffee at 9 am today, you don't get to honestly conclude that I am a liar just because I can't produce evidence of that.
Instead, if you want to accuse someone of being a liar, you need positive evidence that they are one.

If we lived in your insane fantasy imagine how much easier it would be for the police and prosecution. Someone died and you have a suspect? Just asked them if they did it, and when they so know, demand they prove that claim and if they can't that means they are a liar and should get punished for murder.
Sane people recognise that is insanity.

And sane people understand you can't go and demand evidence from a dead person, who has no way to defend themselves because they are dead.
You especially can't demand they produce evidence which was not possible to make when they lived.

So no, your wilful ignorance and inability to find evidence to support them does NOT make them liars.
If you want to accuse them of being liars YOU NEED TO PROVE IT!

I’ve shown you all the evidence we have

And I have explained why it isn't good enough and provided you some ideas on how you can improve your evidence which you then deflect away from.
I have also pointed out that there is other evidence, which you just dismiss.

Their claims are the ones which require evidence

No. YOU brought up their claims to accuse them of being liars.
So YOUR claims are the ones which require evidence.

You’ll always deny any evidence they lied, you already did after the last video I showed you.

No, I wont. You providing crap which does not support your claim is not evidence that they lied.

Two excuses as one, the first one about being taken with sn iPhone camera, the second that it was put online.

Again, not excuses, honest analysis.
The iPhone is repeatedly trying to autofocus, which means it is continually out of focus.
That is not reliable footage.
And the second is not that it is online, but that it has gone through processes to make it more suitable to be shown online which have destroyed the resolution of it with easily visible artefacts from this process.
But rather than honestly represent it like that you dishonestly strawman it to being just it being put online.

An iPhone excuse is your last desperate excuse for this, is it?

You think we’d see multiple distinct belts if it was filmed by another camera?

And for the first time ever, that camera would show Saturn as motionless too?

And for some reason, your great astronomers don’t take a video of Saturn at all which would show all these things for the very first time to the entire world?

Why don’t you bring a camera to their observatory and film it yourself since you think it would show multiple distinct belts. You’ll be famous for it!

Or look like an idiot when it still shows a bid blotch like they all do!

Another 200 years will go by with thieir bs claims, but I’m sure they’ll see those distict belts within the next ten thousand years or so, and prove they weren’t a pack of liars!

 

No, but it was certainly possible for them to allow others to view Saturn as they did, who were independent and valid sources that would either confirm their claims as true or not true.

But there’s absolutely no excuse for nobody ever taking videos of Saturn to prove their claims as true or as lies.

At this pint there’s nothing at all to suggest they weren’t lies, and never will be anything to prove them true. We would’ve proven it years ago by now if it was true. If any telescope ever did show those phantom multiple belts, we’d need others to have the same telescope take videos of Saturn to see if it’s true or faked.

This is how real science works, by confirming and validating claims, not just believing whatever bs that say because they’re supposedly great honest astronomers who always speak the truth of things in’space’!

All they are and ever will be are highly paid liars of the slime of the world in control of it all. Or else they stay silent if they can. Or else they’re toast

Saturn always appears to be in motion, but it took us to take videos of it before we saw it in constant motion.

They never mentioned that, ever.

They’ve certainly seen the same as we always have seen, and it’s not because they knew it was a made up eternally acting effect causing it either, because they’d certainly have mentioned that too, an eternally acting effect  would be an amazing discovery they’d have made!

An iPhone excuse is your last desperate excuse for this, is it?

It is an honest analysis. Do you understand what honesty is?

You think we’d see multiple distinct belts if it was filmed by another camera?

Why don't you go try?
Get a camera made for telescopes and firmly mount it to the telescope and try then.

And for some reason, your great astronomers don’t take a video

Again, WHAT IS THE POINT?
Stop expecting other people to waste their time on you, when you have no intention of ever accepting it.

No, but it was certainly possible for them to allow others to view Saturn as they did

And they did allow that.
People could make their own telescopes, or buy one.

But that doesn't mean everyone wanted to.

But there’s absolutely no excuse for nobody ever taking videos of Saturn to prove their claims as true or as lies.

You mean there is no reason for them to.

Again, we have far better pictures now. Why bother with a video?
We have sent space probes to Saturn. Why bother with a crappy video from earth?

At this pint there’s nothing at all to suggest they weren’t lies

At this point there is nothing to suggest they are lies.

never will be anything to prove them true

You mean nothing you are willing to accept, as anything that proves it true you will dismiss as fake like you dismiss everything that shows you are wrong.

This is how real science works, by confirming and validating claims, not just believing whatever bs

And other astronomers did.
Science also works by actually considering the evidence rather than just rejecting everything that shows you are wrong like you do.

Saturn always appears to be in motion

Not to sane people. You have had this refuted countless times.
Stop saying the same pathetic BS.

Now care to stop with all the BS and try to justify your claims?
Have you obtained the footage I asked for which would actually support your BS?
Of course not, because you know such footage would show you are wrong.

At this point there is nothing to suggest they are lies.

Except for every single video of Saturn close enough to show  the same, single feature in the orbs middle region, in various degrees of clarity and quality, while none show any sort of multiple distinct belts?

If you believe all our videos are too blurry, to see these multiple distinct belts, then we wouldn’t be able to see the distinct area between the ring around Saturn either, but we obviously do see this in all our videos that show one large area in the orbs middle!

If there WERE such distinct multiple belts on Saturn, we’d see them, maybe clearer than we see the features of the ring, because it’s not blurred out into one blotchy ring on all our same videos!

They claimed to see FIVE distinct belts on Saturn. Nobody else has ever seen this, no videos show this, yet do show the very SAME feature as the others do, which confirms the feature is true, and valid. None show anything different from the others, all show the very same feature.

If that was due to an effect of atmosphere, or lousy instruments, or both of them combined, what do you think we’d see in those videos?

We’d certainly never see the same feature in all of them, not even close to the one same feature.

Some videos would blur out the rings, and blur out the multiple distinct belts as one big blotchy belt, and others would be less blurry, and others would be clearer, and we’d see more than one blotchy belt there, and so on…

We all know that a video of Saturn taken by one telescope, nobody else has but me, isn’t valid evidence alone, there must be many others with the same telescope that take videos of Saturn as well, to see if they all match up the same way, show the sane things, or close to the same things, in order to confirm it as valid evidence.

What’s your point here? Once I get your phantom tekescope, take videos of Saturn through it, but not with an iPhone of course, you’d excuse it as the only one using that telescope, as I told you many times already.

Stop this bs argument about how I’m supposed to find and purchase some sort of telescope you bleat on about as being the only one which will present to us the valid evidence!

You’d not be so stupid to think everyone would already have that same telescope, by now?

I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say here..,.

You know of these very specific and very special telescopes that exist today, and we can buy it and film Saturn with it, but for some strange reason, nobody has ever taken a video of Saturn through this telescope at all. 

Your stupid authority act is getting really stale and boring to see, it’s like a running joke.

There is a big difference between someone with intelligence used honestly, and when it is used for deceit. 

Science was trusted by the world as a good thing, for the truth, some was, some wasn’t .

What they told the world, that they told us they saw over and over again for years, was just bs.

As you said, back then we had no videos to see Saturn, which is why we had to confirm it by others viewing what they claimed to see. It’s the only way TO prove their claims are true or false.

It’s not about the telescopes being too expensive, too fragile, to allow others to see and confirm their claims are true or false.

Astronomy is entirely based on making claims of seeing something or some things by one person, in the one group

That’s why it was so important to confirm by others from day one.

It’s horrific when they didn’t allow for it.

Now we know why they didn’t allow it.

They’ve seen Saturn through telescopes for over 200 years now, and what they claimed and put in their reports, does not get excused away, or interpreted as something else meant by them.

Over 200 years later on, their claims were never proven or confirmed as true.

Their claims cannot be proven by seeing through their telescope, scrapped long ago, but it’s not needed anyway to prove their claims were lies.

Telescopes of today, any and all of our telescopes today, which mean only real and valid telescopes on Earth’s surface, not fake ones of fake space, don’t show any multiple distinct belts on Saturn, or all their other claims either.

When you claim there are other telescopes that exist and we can own ourselves, which we can take videos of Saturn with and you’d accept as evidence…..why aren’t there any videos using them?

What if they hadn’t claimed to see multiple distinct belts? Where would they claim to see a distinct feature on Saturn, at one specific position on Saturn, that they could identify as at one specific position on Saturn, which they could identify at other specific positions on Saturn later on?

They just miraculously found that Saturn had multiple distinct belts, miraculously found a distinct feature along one of the belts edges, one side having parallel edges, the other having a distinct squiggle on an edge, which was amazing indeed!

That’s why multiple distinct belts were made up to start with.

The best they’d have really seen, was easily seen back then as a large feature on the orb, and the two part ring separated in middle by a dark feature.

That much they did see, yes.

It’s obviously best to work from what is seen on Saturn, for making up the rest of the story. Why wouldn’t you do that? No reason to say there’s no feature on the orb or no rings around Saturn, they are obvious to see…

You believe this makes their claims ‘consistent’ with what we see!!  They saw a large feature on the orb, so did Copernicus years before them did. And the rings too. Just fuzzier than they did later on,

It’s like seeing cities in moon craters is consistent with the moon having craters!!

Making up a story to appear as realistic as possible, is always done by authors of fiction. The more it is true, the better it works as a realistic story. Nobody wants to think it’s all made up, even if they know it is. Stories need to feel real. Not just complete fairly tales.

What you don’t get here, is where it goes from reality into pure fiction.

If we never see multiple distinct belts, we know it’s fictional. And know why they made it up, to say Saturn is a slowly rotating ‘planet’ like the ball Earth is!

They saw Saturn from Earth, not from made up ‘space’! You claim a long scrapped telescope and NASA has ‘space probes’ are actual evidence, a scrapped antique and the same sky without sunlight as an endless universe!


While the only real evidence is shown in all our videos, none of which are together or in one group, or have one same agenda!

You said they had other studies of Saturn after this. The rotation would’ve been studied for sure, but wasn’t?

Where is that feature they saw on the belts edge? Nobody said anything about it? 

The greatest feature ever discovered on Saturn, the feature which allowed them to calculate Saturns slow rotation so accurately!?

When you believe Saturn has multiple distinct rings, after seeing nothing close to it exists at all, you can’t plead ignorance on judgement day.

Except for every single video of Saturn close enough to show  the same, single feature in the orbs middle region, in various degrees of clarity and quality, while none show any sort of multiple distinct belts?

"in various degrees of clarity and quality", none of which are clear enough to show they lied.

If you believe all our videos are too blurry, to see these multiple distinct belts, then we wouldn’t be able to see the distinct area between the ring around Saturn either

Why?
Because you say so?

but we obviously do see this in all our videos

No you don't,

If there WERE such distinct multiple belts on Saturn, we’d see them

Prove it.
I have told you one way you can. Go take a image of Saturn with its belts and print it out so it is 1 m wide, and view it through 10 km of sea level atmosphere.

Nobody else has ever seen this

You mean no one you wont dismiss as a liar.

We’d certainly never see the same feature in all of them

And we see various degrees of distortion in each.

What’s your point here?

That you have done nothing to justify your claim and instead doing whatever you can to avoid having to justify it.

Stop this bs argument about how I’m supposed to find and purchase some sort of telescope you bleat on about as being the only one which will present to us the valid evidence!

I have never said it is the only one.
Instead I said what you need to actually be evidence.
You don't get to appeal to your wilful ignorance, and you refusal to obtain a sufficient instrument to declare that crap is good enough.

There is a big difference between someone with intelligence used honestly, and when it is used for deceit.

And someone like you, that doesn't appear have intelligence at all, unless you truly think everyone else is a complete imbecile.

What they told the world, that they told us they saw over and over again for years, was just bs.

Why? Because it doesn't match your fantasy?

Astronomy is entirely based on making claims of seeing something or some things by one person, in the one group

No, not by 1 person. By plenty of people. But you group them all together to dismiss them, because reality doesn't match your delusional fantasy.

It’s horrific when they didn’t allow for it.

This is your BS fantasy. You are present anything to justify it.

Over 200 years later on, their claims were never proven or confirmed as true.

You mean they were, but you reject it and group those verifying it in with them to pretend it is just a single group of liars; because you have no interest in accepting reality.

Their claims cannot be proven by seeing through their telescope, scrapped long ago

And you don't have to, you get a telescope just as good as theirs and try it yourself. But you make excuses that you shouldn't have to.

Telescopes of today, any and all of our telescopes today

The vast majority are not good enough.

don’t show any multiple distinct belts on Saturn, or all their other claims either.

And you have personally every telescope to see?
Or are you yet again using your wilful ignorance to boldly proclaim things with no evidence at all?

why aren’t there any videos using them?

That is a question for you and other people like you.
Why haven't YOU purchased one of these telescopes and filmed Saturn?

What if they hadn’t claimed to see multiple distinct belts?

Why not try that honestly?
In a hypothetical reality where Saturn does not have easily seen distinct belts such that they couldn't see such belts, they wouldn't have reported it and would not have known the rotational period.
It would have no effect on Saturn being a planet with rings, nor would it have any effect on Earth being round and orbiting the sun.

The real question for you is why would they claim to have seen rings if they weren't there? There is no valid justification at all.

They just miraculously found that Saturn had multiple distinct belts

There is nothing miraculous about it.

You believe this makes their claims ‘consistent’ with what we see!!

No, I correctly understand that if your footage is not clear enough to tell if there are multiple belts or not, then that is consistent with the claim of multiple belts.
If you want to show an inconsistency you need to get something that is actually able to tell.

Likewise, if someone took a water sample and tested it with a high precision instrument and found lead to be at 1 ppm, and you then follow up with a shitty instrument which can only read down to 0.1 %, and you say you can't detect lead, that is still consistent with their claims, because you can't tell if it is there at that level or not.

What you don’t get here, is where it goes from reality into pure fiction.

I do understand where, basically from the point you start talking.

If we never see multiple distinct belts, we know it’s fictional.

No, you don't.
Your wilful ignorance does not make something fiction.

And know why they made it up, to say Saturn is a slowly rotating ‘planet’ like the ball Earth is!

No, they didn't.
It was known to be a rotating planet before then. They just didn't know the rotational period.
See, this is where you enter the realm of pure fiction.

You are desperate for it to be fake, so you concoct a crazy delusional story to pretend it is fake and pretend there is a reason.
But if anyone honestly examines that so called reason, it is trivial to see it is delusional BS.

While the only real evidence

Again, try it honestly.
The only evidence lying scum like you will accept.

The rotation would’ve been studied for sure, but wasn’t?

Appealing to your wilful ignorance again are you?
You sure love doing that.

Why don't you stop with all that BS, and try justifying your claims?

Except all the same footage shows the distinct ring separated in the middle by a dark area, which is more clear and sharp to see than they ever saw back then.

Certainly if our videos show the distinct two parts of the ring and the area in between, we’d see multiple distinct rings too, if they existed at all. It wouldn’t blur out all the belts into a big blotch while leaving the ring clearly seen like that. A picky blur that always blurs the belts and not the rings? Don’t think so, it’s totally ridiculous.

All those videos show the same thing, distinct ring features and one blotchy area on the orb with ever changing edges on it seen.

But that’s just what the evidence shows, not what they claimed to see, that’s better than stupid old evidence any day!

Every new generation of liars who follow previous liars is at more and more risk of being caught and made an example out of.

In the year 2255, if I’ve calculated it correctly, the most shocking discovery will be made.

But I’m off topic here, so moving along now

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

What is the weasel going to say? We’ll see folks, I can’t wait

Waiting for you to tell me the angle between an 8,000sided polygon

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

There's only one way to find out for sure.  Let us know when you post the video.

Except all the same footage shows the distinct ring separated in the middle by a dark area

No it doesn't.
Some is so unclear you can't see that separation at all.

Certainly if our videos show the distinct two parts of the ring and the area in between, we’d see multiple distinct rings too

No. Why would it?

You may as well be saying that if your footage shows a house, even if it is completely tiny and blurry with no features seen, you should be able to see the doorknob.
It is delusional nonsense with no justification at all.

Every new generation of liars who follow previous liars is at more and more risk of being caught and made an example out of.

As you have been caught and made an example of repeatedly.
Maybe you should stop following the FE liars?

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

If you get such a telescope, set it up properly with an appropriate camera that is fixed to it, set it to track Saturn, in an appropriate location (out of the city to avoid a turbulent atmosphere), taking videos of Saturn throughout the year, with those videos being high quality, all of which don't show belts, I'll accept it.

But remember, I already gave you a much simpler task. Filming a 1 m wide object through 10 km of sea level atmosphere.

What is the weasel going to say? We’ll see folks, I can’t wait

Yes, what will you say?

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

Wonder no more. You are still being silly.

Not that you care, but I for one, would have a lot more respect for you if you were to take any video of Saturn.

Don't worry, in ten years time when Elon Musk puts the first man on Mars, I'm sure you'll be one of the first to say Elon Musk lied as well.

Quote from: turbonium2 on December 07, 2024, 03:19:18 AM

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

Wonder no more. You are still being silly.

Not that you care, but I for one, would have a lot more respect for you if you were to take any video of Saturn.

Don't worry, in ten years time when Elon Musk puts the first man on Mars, I'm sure you'll be one of the first to say Elon Musk lied as well.

Wasn't that meant to have happened by 2011?
He has already lied so much.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on December 07, 2024, 03:03:29 PM

Quote from: turbonium2 on December 07, 2024, 03:19:18 AM

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

Wonder no more. You are still being silly.

Not that you care, but I for one, would have a lot more respect for you if you were to take any video of Saturn.

Don't worry, in ten years time when Elon Musk puts the first man on Mars, I'm sure you'll be one of the first to say Elon Musk lied as well.

Wasn't that meant to have happened by 2011?
He has already lied so much.

I don't know if I'd call it lying as much as being overly optimistic.

Some is so unclear you can't see that separation at all.

I said some videos show the separation yet show one big area on the orb, like all the others show as well. Why would these videos all show the two parts of the ring and the separation feature between them, and all show a single large feature on the orbs middle region?

It’s obvious that they’re claim of seeing multiple distinct belts -,claiming they saw it for years, before supposedly calculating Saturn’s rotation as 10.6 hours, to the seconds, as indicated in their reports.

You can’t say this may be an honest mistake they made, because it’s a very precise description, they spent years on, that’s why it looks very convincing and true. Who would think they’d make all that up?

So everyone accepted it as entirely true, without any proof at all for it, like all their claims were, and still are believed as true without a shred of valid evidence for any of them.

But as I told you before, the more convincing it is, the easier to fool people it’s true….as long as nobody finds out the truth, later on, and then it completely backfires on them, and those who support their claims as true.

You still don’t get it. Their claims are extremely detailed descriptions of specific features on Saturn, which they claim took years of study.

It obviously would be seen by us, even to some degree, if they saw it all the time, or once in awhile, they had to see these multiple distinct belts many many times, over years, to say they calculated its rotation by a distinct fixed feature on the edge of a ‘distinct belt’! 

At this point, you’ve seen that every video doesn’t even show a belt, more like a big blotchy feature on the orb.

That’s not going to magically transform into multiple distinct belts with defined edges, and a distinct feature fixed in position on a side of a distinct belts edges.

Their claims of seeing all this bs through a primitive instrument were simply a pack of lies, though cleverly designed and packaged lies, that would fool anybody they were legit and factual claims and reports.

They never saw that distinct feature fixed in position along a distinct belts edge, that’s just ridiculous.

Based on our better quality videos showing the defined sections of the ring, which would be blurry and unclear if there WERE any effect in play here, the entire scene would be a blur or smudgy, the ring most of all would be blurry.

You can’t say one feature is blurred out on Saturn from an effect or whatever, it would blur out everything there, and you certainly know that after showing me heat hazes on videos, the entire area is blurred out.

You certainly know the ring would also be blurred out if there’s multiple belts on Saturn that are blurred out in all the videos showing one large area on the orb, you think is blurred out multiple distinct belts!

It’s not my burden to look everywhere because their claims have no proof at all, they failed to prove their OWN claims, they never should have been accepted as true in the first place, let alone still accepted as true today without any proof at all.

What makes you so angry at me calling them liars? They never had to prove anything they claimed, it was automatically accepted as true, and if you think I’m the one lying here, you are in denial of reality.

Anyone who has no evidence for their claims, or a supporter of someone else’s claims, which is the same thing anyway….

You’re defending their claims as true, as not lies, while having nothing of evidence at all for their claims.

Which makes you take on their claims like they were YOUR OWN claims, fully and entirely so.

You either have to defend their claims as your own, or you have nothing to say about them, nothing to accuse others who have opinions on them, just because you don’t like what they say about it! 

Your obviously defending their claims, saying they aren’t lies, saying there’s no evidence they’re lies, acting as if you’re the authority and unbiased judge of deciding what is and isn’t evidence….

Evidence is decided on its own merit, whether or not it is confirmed by other evidence from independent sources or is from only one source, or those connected to one sane source. 

We are not deciding what evidence is or is not, that is decided by whethet or not it meets those requirements for being considered valid evidence. Not by what you say or what I say, unless it meets the requirements or doesn’t meet them.

I don’t give a s:($  that you call me a liar, you look like a fool who can’t accept the truth.

Again, when you keep on saying I need to show proof of their claims being lies, that makes YOU the defender of their claims, it doesn’t matter HOW you’re defending their claims, as not being lies, or not having evidence they’re lies, there are no partial positions on their claims, it is one or the other, defending their claims entirely as true, or not defending anything at all of their claims.

You want to play the defender of their claims without needing proof for their claims, you cannot do that, nobody can, nobody gets away with such garbage.

You realize their claims have no proof, but you can’t win this argument by twisting the facts and rules we abide by in all arguments and debates.

You cannot prove their claims ARE true, with actual evidence, and there certainly IS evidence here, lots of evidence in fact, the only problem you have is that all this evidence proves their claims ARE lies. No other thing but prove them as lies.

You took this position as being the defender of their claims, and it has two sides or two positions to take on it.

You can’t be a troll that picks out something from the other side and demands they show proof for it, while avoiding your own burden of your position on it.

If you can’t even make a legitimate defence for just these claims, which are only the first claims I picked out of the countless others, then what do you think that says about the whole fairy tale story?

It had to start with one claim, one group of claims, and then see if they hold up as valid, or don’t hold up as valid.

These claims are certainly not valid at all. They’ve been proven as lies with all the evidence we have here.

Do you expect me to look at all the evidence showing no multiple belts, and think ‘maybe those multiple belts they claimed to see aren’t shown in one single video because all the videos aren’t really evidence at all!’ ??

Do you expect me to ignore their claims having no evidence in the first place, because I’m supposed to look around everywhere to see if I can find evidence for their claims?

There’s only one possible conclusion to make about their claims. It’s not waiting for your phantom evidence to appear out of nowhere, and instantly refute all the other evidence which proves them as lies.

It’s a fairy tale you want here, it’s not going to come true, like it or not, so deal with it or deny it, that’s your choice.





The fakes made by NASA didn’t even include that ‘distinct feature’ on a belts edge, and you think nothing is wrong with your pack of liars who didn’t show this feature?

Quote from: JackBlack on December 07, 2024, 02:13:14 PM

Some is so unclear you can't see that separation at all.

I said some videos show the separation yet show one big area on the orb, like all the others show as well. Why would these videos all show the two parts of the ring and the separation feature between them, and all show a single large feature on the orbs middle region?

It’s obvious that they’re claim of seeing multiple distinct belts -,claiming they saw it for years, before supposedly calculating Saturn’s rotation as 10.6 hours, to the seconds, as indicated in their reports.

You can’t say this may be an honest mistake they made, because it’s a very precise description, they spent years on, that’s why it looks very convincing and true. Who would think they’d make all that up?

So everyone accepted it as entirely true, without any proof at all for it, like all their claims were, and still are believed as true without a shred of valid evidence for any of them.

But as I told you before, the more convincing it is, the easier to fool people it’s true….as long as nobody finds out the truth, later on, and then it completely backfires on them, and those who support their claims as true.

You still don’t get it. Their claims are extremely detailed descriptions of specific features on Saturn, which they claim took years of study.

It obviously would be seen by us, even to some degree, if they saw it all the time, or once in awhile, they had to see these multiple distinct belts many many times, over years, to say they calculated its rotation by a distinct fixed feature on the edge of a ‘distinct belt’! 

At this point, you’ve seen that every video doesn’t even show a belt, more like a big blotchy feature on the orb.

That’s not going to magically transform into multiple distinct belts with defined edges, and a distinct feature fixed in position on a side of a distinct belts edges.

Their claims of seeing all this bs through a primitive instrument were simply a pack of lies, though cleverly designed and packaged lies, that would fool anybody they were legit and factual claims and reports.

They never saw that distinct feature fixed in position along a distinct belts edge, that’s just ridiculous.

Based on our better quality videos showing the defined sections of the ring, which would be blurry and unclear if there WERE any effect in play here, the entire scene would be a blur or smudgy, the ring most of all would be blurry.

You can’t say one feature is blurred out on Saturn from an effect or whatever, it would blur out everything there, and you certainly know that after showing me heat hazes on videos, the entire area is blurred out.

You certainly know the ring would also be blurred out if there’s multiple belts on Saturn that are blurred out in all the videos showing one large area on the orb, you think is blurred out multiple distinct belts!

It’s not my burden to look everywhere because their claims have no proof at all, they failed to prove their OWN claims, they never should have been accepted as true in the first place, let alone still accepted as true today without any proof at all.

What makes you so angry at me calling them liars? They never had to prove anything they claimed, it was automatically accepted as true, and if you think I’m the one lying here, you are in denial of reality.

Anyone who has no evidence for their claims, or a supporter of someone else’s claims, which is the same thing anyway….

You’re defending their claims as true, as not lies, while having nothing of evidence at all for their claims.

Which makes you take on their claims like they were YOUR OWN claims, fully and entirely so.

You either have to defend their claims as your own, or you have nothing to say about them, nothing to accuse others who have opinions on them, just because you don’t like what they say about it! 

Your obviously defending their claims, saying they aren’t lies, saying there’s no evidence they’re lies, acting as if you’re the authority and unbiased judge of deciding what is and isn’t evidence….

Evidence is decided on its own merit, whether or not it is confirmed by other evidence from independent sources or is from only one source, or those connected to one sane source. 

We are not deciding what evidence is or is not, that is decided by whethet or not it meets those requirements for being considered valid evidence. Not by what you say or what I say, unless it meets the requirements or doesn’t meet them.

I don’t give a s:($  that you call me a liar, you look like a fool who can’t accept the truth.

Again, when you keep on saying I need to show proof of their claims being lies, that makes YOU the defender of their claims, it doesn’t matter HOW you’re defending their claims, as not being lies, or not having evidence they’re lies, there are no partial positions on their claims, it is one or the other, defending their claims entirely as true, or not defending anything at all of their claims.

You want to play the defender of their claims without needing proof for their claims, you cannot do that, nobody can, nobody gets away with such garbage.

You realize their claims have no proof, but you can’t win this argument by twisting the facts and rules we abide by in all arguments and debates.

You cannot prove their claims ARE true, with actual evidence, and there certainly IS evidence here, lots of evidence in fact, the only problem you have is that all this evidence proves their claims ARE lies. No other thing but prove them as lies.

You took this position as being the defender of their claims, and it has two sides or two positions to take on it.

You can’t be a troll that picks out something from the other side and demands they show proof for it, while avoiding your own burden of your position on it.

If you can’t even make a legitimate defence for just these claims, which are only the first claims I picked out of the countless others, then what do you think that says about the whole fairy tale story?

It had to start with one claim, one group of claims, and then see if they hold up as valid, or don’t hold up as valid.

These claims are certainly not valid at all. They’ve been proven as lies with all the evidence we have here.

Do you expect me to look at all the evidence showing no multiple belts, and think ‘maybe those multiple belts they claimed to see aren’t shown in one single video because all the videos aren’t really evidence at all!’ ??

Do you expect me to ignore their claims having no evidence in the first place, because I’m supposed to look around everywhere to see if I can find evidence for their claims?

There’s only one possible conclusion to make about their claims. It’s not waiting for your phantom evidence to appear out of nowhere, and instantly refute all the other evidence which proves them as lies.

It’s a fairy tale you want here, it’s not going to come true, like it or not, so deal with it or deny it, that’s your choice.





The fakes made by NASA didn’t even include that ‘distinct feature’ on a belts edge, and you think nothing is wrong with your pack of liars who didn’t show this feature?

Quote from: JackBlack on December 07, 2024, 02:13:14 PM

You may as well be saying that if your footage shows a house, even if it is completely tiny and blurry with no features seen, you should be able to see the doorknob. [/

If you get such a telescope, set it up properly with an appropriate camera that is fixed to it, set it to track Saturn, in an appropriate location (out of the city to avoid a turbulent atmosphere), taking videos of Saturn throughout the year, with those videos being high quality, all of which don't show belts, I'll accept it.

Quote from: JackBlack on December 07, 2024, 02:13:14 PM

But remember, I already gave you a much simpler task. Filming a 1 m wide object through 10 km of sea level atmosphere.

You've obviously completed the same course on lying as I have.

So, what type of lie do you think the astronomers and NASA have told?

Well, they aren't bold faced lies, are they?

You say that you’d accept my own videos, with no other videos taken by others with the same telescope I used?

And after you’ve called me a liar about everything I’ve said so far, you’d suddenly believe my videos are valid and true?

Why aren’t there others who have that same telescope taking videos of Saturn and the stars? I’d be the very first to do it? Really?

Why wouldn’t you need to see others take videos of Saturn with the same telescope to confirm if mine are the same as theirs? I could easily fake it, you know that, right? But you’d trust that I didn’t fake it, or lie about it, when you’ve said the opposite about me all this time?

Are you insane?

None of these astronauts thought they’d have to lie about what they did and saw.

They later found out they either had to lie or lose their highly paid jobs. That’s why they always look so tense and nervous when they talk about it.

Only one astronaut didn’t like to lie about it anymore, and that was Gus Grissom. He was picked by NASA to be the first man on the moon, but knew it was all faked. He went to the moon set, because they started filming the whole thing on a stage set years before 1969.

I’m sure that he stole footage of them faking it, and it’s buried somewhere under ground. Whatever it is, it’s conclusive proof of them faking the whole thing, and will be discovered in 2255 and create a huge scandal worldwide. NASA will be toast, and Grissom will forever be known as a great brave hero.

I wish I was here to see that day, it’ll be magnificent justice!

still are believed as true without a shred of valid evidence for any of them.

Again, try it honestly.
Without any evidence lying POS like you will accept.
You rejecting it because it shows you are wrong doesn't mean it isn't valid.

It obviously would be seen by us

Not when you choose to continue to look at Saturn with crap and make up whatever excuse you can to avoid getting a decent instrument.

Their claims of seeing all this bs through a primitive instrument were simply a pack of lies

That is your pathetic baseless claim you are yet to substantiate in any way.

Stop reaping the same BS, and start defending your BS.

You can’t say one feature is blurred out on Saturn from an effect or whatever, it would blur out everything there

As we see in all the footage you have provided.

It’s not my burden

It is your burden to prove they lied.
To either show that the instruments you have are capable of seeing what they claimed to see, and then showing they don't see what they claim to see, or getting a better instrument than what they had.

So far you have just resorted to using crap.

Which makes you take on their claims like they were YOUR OWN claims, fully and entirely so.

No, it doesn't.
I am objecting to your claims that they are liars.
A claim you are yet to justify.
A claim you are doing everything you can to pretend you don't have to justify.

I don't need to defend their claim to object to your claims that they are liars.

you look like a fool who can’t accept the truth.

Projecting again I see.

Again, when you keep on saying I need to show proof of their claims being lies

It is being honest.
When you keep deflecting from that and trying to demand others prove you wrong, it shows you are a dishonest POS.

You want to play the defender of their claims without needing proof for their claims, you cannot do that, nobody can, nobody gets away with such garbage.

Go tell that to every defence attorney in existence.
They don't need to positively prove the defendant is innocent. Instead, they need to show the prosecutor has failed to prove they are guilty.

You can’t be a troll that picks out something from the other side and demands they show proof for it, while avoiding your own burden of your position on it.

You mean exactly what you tried to do in this thread?

They’ve been proven as lies

No, they haven't.
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the same BS, it wont magically make it true.

Do you expect me to look at all the evidence showing no multiple belts

Again, try it honestly.
That is NOT what it shows.
You are yet to demonstrate it would be capable of seeing multiple belts, so it not showing multiple belts is not showing no multiple belts.
There is a fundamental difference.
What you are doing is like taking a picture of a cat, and claiming because that photo doesn't show multiple belts on Saturn, that must be proof that Saturn doesn't have multiple belts.

There’s only one possible conclusion to make about their claims.

That you are desperate and trying to reject them at all costs.

It’s a fairy tale you want here, it’s not going to come true, like it or not, so deal with it or deny it, that’s your choice.

And more projection.

You say that you’d accept my own videos, with no other videos taken by others with the same telescope I used?
And after you’ve called me a liar about everything I’ve said so far, you’d suddenly believe my videos are valid and true?
Why wouldn’t you need to see others take videos of Saturn with the same telescope to confirm if mine are the same as theirs? I could easily fake it, you know that, right? But you’d trust that I didn’t fake it, or lie about it, when you’ve said the opposite about me all this time?

So you are already admitting you're a lying POS that would fake it?

Again, if you want to show they lied, get actual evidence that they did. That is one way to do it.
Stop making excuses.

Why aren’t there others who have that same telescope taking videos of Saturn and the stars?

Because they see no reason to.

it’s conclusive proof of them faking the whole thing, and will be discovered in 2255 and create a huge scandal worldwide.

You sure do love clinging to your delusional fantasies don't you?