They've lied to the world about the stars

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Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1500 on: December 09, 2024, 03:03:15 PM »
None of these astronauts thought they’d have to lie about what they did and saw.

They later found out they either had to lie or lose their highly paid jobs. That’s why they always look so tense and nervous when they talk about it.

Only one astronaut didn’t like to lie about it anymore, and that was Gus Grissom. He was picked by NASA to be the first man on the moon, but knew it was all faked. He went to the moon set, because they started filming the whole thing on a stage set years before 1969.

I’m sure that he stole footage of them faking it, and it’s buried somewhere under ground. Whatever it is, it’s conclusive proof of them faking the whole thing, and will be discovered in 2255 and create a huge scandal worldwide. NASA will be toast, and Grissom will forever be known as a great brave hero.

I wish I was here to see that day, it’ll be magnificent justice!

As a flat earther, you do not share in the pride and celebration of mankind putting one of their own, on the moon. Instead, you flip it to be one of the World's greatest deceptions, rife with all the people you think you are an expert on - liars.

Similarly, on the day mankind sets foot on planet Mars, you will also be one of the ones not celebrating, and instead, grumbling about the latest world deception swallowed up by the sheep.

Man going to and exploring our closest heavenly neighbors like our moon and one day Mars, ranks as one of the highest achievements in the history of mankind on Earth.

Not being able to share in the greatest accomplishments of your fellow man, is certainly one of the saddest aspects of the flat earth movement.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 03:10:40 PM by Smoke Machine »

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1501 on: December 21, 2024, 10:25:17 PM »
I believed we landed on the moon, I saw it on our tv, and Walter Cronkite, and Nixon talking to them ‘on the moon’!

But it isn’t about if it’s a great event or not, it’s about if it’s true or not, which you don’t understand is much harder to accept if it’s a great event that’s faked.

Nobody prefers to see such grand events, in human achievements, as a fake.

But the truth is all that matters, for better or worse, happy or sad.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1502 on: December 21, 2024, 11:06:04 PM »
Claims they once made about 200 years ago might seem irrelevant, but they’re very relevant and important to their whole fairy tale story.

There’s no telescopes that will show multiple distinct belts on Saturn, because some of our best and sharpest videos would give some sort of indication that there is more than one blotchy area on Saturn by that point.

And even that far superior telescope shows nothing to indicate multiple belts either.

It isn’t because of an iPhone taking the video through it or being put online.

How would an iPhone make it match up to the other videos showing one blotchy area?

What an incredible coincidence that using an iPhone makes it look like all the other videos!!

Dream on

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1503 on: December 22, 2024, 01:42:32 AM »
Here’s a video of Saturn close up through a telescope and shies Saturn for many minutes continually..



It clearly appears to be in constant rapid rotation, like many others show it in..

The problem is that Saturn has very subtle and indistinct features on the orb. It’s very smooth over the surface of the orb.

That makes it harder to see clearly as motion by any of its features, at this distance from it we see here.

I am absolutely sure it’s rapidly in rotation from everything it looks to be doing, but we’ll eventually in future see it very clearly in that rapid rotation to leave absolutely no doubt at all.

They’ve used technology against us by keeping it secret, telling us lies about seeing things that they made up for their fairy tale story.

But now technology has advanced far beyond keeping from us, and it’s going to destroy them and their bs story, that will be sweet justice indeed!

God told us that the truth will always prevail over lies and deceptions, and it will here, one day.

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JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1504 on: December 23, 2024, 02:03:27 PM »
Nobody prefers to see such grand events, in human achievements, as a fake.
Except people like you, who would love for it to be fake to pretend your delusional fantasy is true and pretend everyone is lying about space.

But the truth is all that matters, for better or worse, happy or sad.
Again, except to people like you. To people like you all that matters is your delusional fantasy, regardless of how false it is.

There’s no telescopes that will show multiple distinct belts on Saturn, because some of our best and sharpest videos would give some sort of indication that there is more than one blotchy area on Saturn by that point.
Your "best and sharpest videos" are still quite poor.

And even that far superior telescope shows nothing to indicate multiple belts either.
You mean through a crappy iphone that was too busy trying to autofocus, again making it useless.

You may as well just be closing your eyes and saying you can't see it.

How would an iPhone make it match up to the other videos showing one blotchy area?
By making it out of focus, to make it blurry, just like other videos which don't have the required resolution.

Nothing surprising there.

Here’s a video of Saturn close up through a telescope and shies Saturn for many minutes continually.
Not close up.
Zoomed in.

It clearly appears to be in constant rapid rotation, like many others show it in..
No, it doesn't.
Instead, it looks like the atmosphere in front of it is waving just like in a heat haze, with it moving the view around; with sensor noise making the pixels slightly different colours.

There is no indication of any motion of Saturn there.

If you want to honestly claim rapid rotation you need to have features on the surface of Saturn which can be tracked.
Without that, the best you would get is not being able to tell.

I am absolutely sure it’s rapidly in rotation from everything it looks to be doing
No, you aren't.
You are sure it is rapid rotation so you can claim they lied so you can pretend your fantasy is true.

You have NOTHING to indicate any motion.

They’ve used technology against us by keeping it secret, telling us lies about seeing things that they made up for their fairy tale story.
No, that is still your worthless, baseless claim.

But now technology has advanced far beyond keeping from us, and it’s going to destroy them and their bs story, that will be sweet justice indeed!
You mean your BS story?

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1505 on: December 24, 2024, 10:08:04 PM »
I believed we landed on the moon, I saw it on our tv, and Walter Cronkite, and Nixon talking to them ‘on the moon’!

But it isn’t about if it’s a great event or not, it’s about if it’s true or not, which you don’t understand is much harder to accept if it’s a great event that’s faked.

Nobody prefers to see such grand events, in human achievements, as a fake.

But the truth is all that matters, for better or worse, happy or sad.

I agree that thinking the moon landings is fake may be harder than believing it happened, due to swimming against the official narrative. But does believing it fake because that is harder, mean it is also smarter?

I understand that if you accept the moon landings did in fact happen and weren't faked, means you cannot be a flat earther.

Maybe you want to believe the moon landings were faked, just so you can continue being in the flat earth tribe? Obviously there are some kickbacks to being a flat earther I am unaware of.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1506 on: December 25, 2024, 02:40:21 AM »
Who would defend those who claimed to see multiple distinct rings on Saturn, who never had proof for their claims, that have never had proof since then, over 200 years later on, who know they’ve never seen that themself through a telescope, who know that not one single video shows that either?

Someone that wants to ignore what he’s seen, ignore all the videos or make excuses about them not being evidence, while defending those who made claims that haven’t had evidence for over 200 years, and demanding others find a telescope for him, defending claims based on a long ago scrapped telescope.


A sad, pathetic person does all this, out of fear and insecurity,

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1507 on: December 25, 2024, 03:03:12 AM »
Who would defend those who claimed to see multiple distinct rings on Saturn, who never had proof for their claims, that have never had proof since then, over 200 years later on, who know they’ve never seen that themself through a telescope, who know that not one single video shows that either?

Someone that wants to ignore what he’s seen, ignore all the videos or make excuses about them not being evidence, while defending those who made claims that haven’t had evidence for over 200 years, and demanding others find a telescope for him, defending claims based on a long ago scrapped telescope.


A sad, pathetic person does all this, out of fear and insecurity,

Are you replying to anybody in particular, or just airing your ramblings on the matter of Saturn yet again?

Do you have anybody sponsoring you with your Saturn rings argument, or anybody who agrees with you? You are at home on this forum with other flat earthers but I dont see anybody else back you on this. Why do you think that is?

Could it be you are arguing a moot point? Arguing a frivolous point? Arguing a trivial point? Arguing a pointless point?

I think it is, and I dont think I'm the only one.

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JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1508 on: December 25, 2024, 03:16:35 AM »
Who would defend those who claimed to see multiple distinct rings on Saturn
Who would call long dead people liars, with no proof that they lied, and continually appeal to their wilful ignorance to pretend they lied and demand others prove them wrong?
YOU!

How about you stop, and instead try to prove your claims rather than continuing to try to shift the burden of proof?

Someone that wants to ignore what he’s seen, ignore all the videos or make excuses
...
A sad, pathetic person does all this, out of fear and insecurity,
i.e. YOU!

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1509 on: December 25, 2024, 05:17:30 AM »
Their claims have no proof, and all the evidence we have proves them as lies.

Defend their claims by showing evidence for them being true, they are the ones who MADE those claims in the first place.

If I claimed something I saw, and had no proof, you’d call me a liar because I have no proof for my claim, right?

So then I ask you to prove I didn’t see that, and if you can’t prove I didn’t see it, my claim would be true?

No, you wouldn’t have to prove I lied, nor could you prove it. I could say you have to do this and that with a telescope in perfect conditions. Then I’d say you didn’t have perfect conditions that night.


The onus would be on me, or those supporting my claim, to show proof for it being true.

You could call me a liar and if I don’t get proof, it’s justified to say I lied, it doesn’t mean I lied, but you could say so.

So either get proof for their multiple distinct belts if you can, or I’m justified in calling them liars.

Defending their claims isn’t saying I need to prove their claims are lies. You have to support their claims as true, not whine about what I think of their claims.

Their claims are the subject here, you being upset about what I think of their claims isn’t the issue. Whether you’d like it to be or not, they’re not the issue.


You cannot ask me to prove their unproven claims are lies.

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JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1510 on: December 25, 2024, 02:16:42 PM »
Their claims have no proof, and all the evidence we have proves them as lies.
Again, pure BS.
Their claims have plenty of evidence to support them which you dismiss as fake because it comes from a completely body known as NASA which you hate.
They also have evidence in the form of stacked photos from videos of Saturn through telescopes on Earth, which you also dismiss because it isn't a real time video or a "real" photo.

On the other hand you have no proof at all for them being lies.
Instead, you boldly assert they are lies and demand others prove you wrong.

Defend their claims
No. YOU DEFEND YOURS!

If I claimed something I saw, and had no proof, you’d call me a liar because I have no proof for my claim, right?
No. That entirely depends on the claim and how it matches what is observed.

If you claim you saw a cat walk past you when you were sitting at a bus stop, but couldn't provide proof, I'm not going to call you a liar for that.
But if you claim that you saw me doing something, which I know I didn't, I would call you a liar, because I know that I didn't do that.
If you claim you saw a particular plane crash and burn on landing, and I can find evidence that it didn't, I would call you a liar.

If I can clearly demonstrate you have lied, I will call you a liar, along with that demonstration, as I have done previously.

Again, if you want to call someone a liar, you need proof that they lied.
You can't just use your wilful ignorance to claim they are liars.

Also, do you notice a key difference with this situation?
You aren't calling me a liar in response to something I have claimed.
You are calling long dead people a liar to deflect from your inability to defend your claims.

It would be like you claiming to have seen something, and even taking a video or picture of it.
Then someone in the future claiming it is fake and that you are lying, because you don't have a digitally signed for authenticity holographic recording of it.
And not because someone brought up what you claimed, but because this person was spouting all sorts of BS they couldn't defend and decided to bring your claims to shift the burden of proof.

So then I ask you to prove I didn’t see that, and if you can’t prove I didn’t see it, my claim would be true?
No, not how it works.
It is not a simple dichotomy.

If YOU want to claim they lied, the burden is on you to prove they lied.
If you don't then anyone else can dismiss your claim that they lied and object to it and demand proof.

If someone else brings up their claims and claims they were telling the truth, then the burden is on them to prove it.
If they don't, then you or anyone else can dismiss their claims, object to them and demand proof.

Understand the difference?

YOU brought up their claims, to claim they lied, so the burden is on YOU!

So go prove they lied.

If you can't, admit you can't and move on.

So either get proof for their multiple distinct belts if you can, or I’m justified in calling them liars.
No, you aren't.
As explained.
You are appealing to your wilful ignorance to call them liars.
That is not justified at all.

If you have no proof either way then the justified position is that the claims are unsubstantiated, and it would just as unsubstantiated to say they are true as would be to say they are false.
People would be just as justified saying the claims are true as they would be saying the claims are lies.

Defending their claims isn’t saying I need to prove their claims are lies.
Is not what I am doing.
I am objecting to YOUR claims.

Your claims that they lied are the subject here. The thing you are doing whatever you can to avoid.

You cannot ask me to prove their unproven claims are lies.
I most certainly can.
You claim they are lies, I can demand you prove their claims are lies.

You don't get to go around just calling people liars and not expect people to demand you prove it.


So stop with all the BS and prove your claim or admit you can't.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1511 on: December 25, 2024, 11:36:46 PM »
Their claims have no proof, and all the evidence we have proves them as lies.

Defend their claims by showing evidence for them being true, they are the ones who MADE those claims in the first place.

If I claimed something I saw, and had no proof, you’d call me a liar because I have no proof for my claim, right?

So then I ask you to prove I didn’t see that, and if you can’t prove I didn’t see it, my claim would be true?

No, you wouldn’t have to prove I lied, nor could you prove it. I could say you have to do this and that with a telescope in perfect conditions. Then I’d say you didn’t have perfect conditions that night.


The onus would be on me, or those supporting my claim, to show proof for it being true.

You could call me a liar and if I don’t get proof, it’s justified to say I lied, it doesn’t mean I lied, but you could say so.

So either get proof for their multiple distinct belts if you can, or I’m justified in calling them liars.

Defending their claims isn’t saying I need to prove their claims are lies. You have to support their claims as true, not whine about what I think of their claims.

Their claims are the subject here, you being upset about what I think of their claims isn’t the issue. Whether you’d like it to be or not, they’re not the issue.


You cannot ask me to prove their unproven claims are lies.

If you claimed something you saw and had no proof, I would not call you a liar. Why would I?

If I told you I and another fella had seen a bigfoot one day in broad daylight, but we have no proof, would you call us liars? You possibly wouldn't because you are open minded, whereas somebody else, like Jack Black most likely would, because he thinks bigfoot is bs.

So, this standard you apply to those astronomers who have long since left the land of the living, would you have people apply that standard to you? At least you can defend yourself, those astronomers can't.

You're not in a position to research your argument properly.

You raised this debate, accusing people of lying. Others have stated your accusations are unfounded, as have I, and nobody else is backing you on this.

Where do you propose this debate goes next?

Are you writing a book based on your argument, aimed to be a best seller in the FE community?


Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1512 on: December 27, 2024, 01:00:04 AM »
Quote
Their claims have plenty of evidence to support them which you dismiss as fake because it comes from a completely body known as NASA which you hate.

It’s not about hate, or love, those are human emotions, opinions, they must have a basis for it, or they’re meaningless to say at all.

As I’ve already told you, NASA isn’t a valid source of evidence, being nobody else can ever confirm their claims or ‘evidence’ is true.

If everyone of us cannot go up into ‘space’ to first confirm that SPACE actually exists as they claim, an endless area beyond the Earth, without a made up unproven to exist ‘force’ called ‘gravity’….,

How many things they have claimed to be true, without even one of them having any valid, real proof at all?


Endless space beyond Earth has no proof of existing.

Earth as ball has no valid proof of being true, built upon ‘endless space’ first being claimed by them.

A ball Earth was claimed to be a shadow on the moon, yet cannot be true because not always a circle or arc in shape, so cannot be from a ball Earth being a circle if in shadow. 

They later changed their ckam it was ball Earths shadow, it was also a reflection of sunlight hitting the ball Earth surface bouncing up to the moon 24000 miles away, or some other thing, or so forth.

A force called ‘gravity’ arrived after they claimed Earth as a ball.

Every one of their claims, from day one, and ever since then, to this very day, are built upon nothing but their unproven, unconfirmed by others, unseen at all by others, because all of their claims are about ‘space’ as existing, to start with.

Having no valid evidence that ‘endless space’ really exists at all, has no proof at all of existing, is the first, most crucial problem here.

Everything else is built on ‘endless space’ existing, but there’s never been any proof it exists at all.

It is just the very same skies in daylight, but without the light of the Sun, when it’s dark or blackened, which allows the smaller lights of things to be seen in darkness above Earth.

Which means we have to first prove, without any doubt at all, whether or not our skies are blue, and we can pass through them, beyond them, into the darkness of endless ‘space’, so we first have proof, of ‘space existing at all. 

‘Space’ is claimed to be all black, colorless. Only objects like Earth, stars, etc are seen through the blackness of ‘space’

They first claimed this, before it could ever be seen as a ball, or any shape at all, they made up ‘space’, blackness works as an illusion, because distances of objects within darkness, without first knowing their true sizes, without having reference points of known distances to consider close or far from, because it’s not possible to know in darkness, without knowing actual sizes of the objects above Earth, being nobody had been high enough to see anything at all…

Claims made by ANYONE, ANY GROUP of people, any collective group of people, which may appear independent groups, but are one group in reality, would never be valid sources.

NASA isn’t a valid source, nor those connected to NASA are valid sources, they are not independent sources, they’re connected to NASA, work with NASA, and that’s why they’re not valid, independent sources.

Any sources must be independent parties, or people, and must be confirmed by other sources that are independent and valid sources.

Comparing your sources to my sources…

Your sources are all in the one group, connected as one group, wholly acting as one group. 

NASA and those others may appear to be independent groups, by name, in other nations and governments. But they are the one same group.

They claim Earth is a ball, within endless space, support this is true, and real, based on NASA’s claims of being true, proven as true…


Let’s again consider their claim that it is our skies that are blue, because if the sky isn’t the blue we see above Earth in daylight, then they have lied about the skies being blue, or made up something to explain the blue.

Rayleigh scattering, that sounded like a scientific term, not connected to anything proven to exist.

It’s unbelievable that we’ve never understood that Rayleigh scattering was claimed to cause or create by some means, the air above Earth, which is clear and colorless in its normal state, to become a blue in colour, due to Rayleigh scattering, a phenomenon caused by sunlight scattering all its individual colour wavelengths through the air, which filters all out except for wavelengths  of blue, thus making the sky appear to be blue..

Once again, I’ll ask you how can that be true, when over 85% of the air is not at all blue, it is actually all clear?

They’ve claimed a phenomenon is acting on air, that sunlight hits the air and filters out all the colours wavelength except those of blue wavelength.

Air is the key component here.

Showing some images of a blue tint down from a plane, is never seen from planes as a blue at all, and almost all images show it’s clear. We’ve seen it always as clear.

Any images with a blue colour or blue ‘tint’ shown in the skies below planes, aren’t valid images, anyone can edit in blue tints into images, and you claim they prove the sky is blue, just add in a blue tint to images, say the sky is blue tinted!

You think anyone would believe such bs?

Your so desperate to save this lie, you try to find any image with a blue sky, then try to convince people that have seen clear skies below planes many times before that their sense of sight is wrong?

Your side has tried to tell us our senses are wrong, that when we never feel ourselves being pulled down or held down to the surface by a made up force, our senses are not to be trusted, say that most people DO feel themselves being held down to Earth, pulled down from a force below them when skydiving through air.

That’s complete bs.

Falling through air from a plane, is called a free fall.

Only winds hitting them from some direction will be felt as a force acting on them during a fall through air. Because wind is a real force that acts on them and we feel it acting on us.

We feel forces acting on us, we feel a pulling or pushing force which acts on us.

Trying to make up a fake force was out of necessity, it was never going to fool people it was real, at first, and they couldn’t claim it was a proven force, without being able to prove a made up force.

So they first said it was a theoretical force. They can’t prove such a force actually exists.

It’s never been proven to exist.


Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1513 on: December 27, 2024, 01:54:03 AM »
NASA isn’t a valid source. No outside and independent sources confirm their claims or ‘evidence’ are valid and true.

Whether or not NASA’s claims and ‘evidence’ were true or not true, doesn’t matter at all, the only thing that DOES matter is that they aren’t confirmed by independent sources, so NASA isn’t a valid source.

Unlike all those who took videos of Saturn independently, confirm the others are true and valid.

It’s obvious they’d vary in quality, some are better than others in quality, etc.

I’m specifically referring to the better quality videos, but they are all evidence to various degrees. It can support other evidence, or be consistent with other evidence, to various degrees.

You think an iPhone blurs out multiple distinct belts, yet doesn’t blur out anything else on Saturn, that it leaves the distinct line separating the two parts of the ring clear to see, yet blurs out multiple distinct rings as a single large blotchy feature? 

Yes, the iPhone camera picked out the one, and only one feature which they claimed to see as multiple distinct belts, and blurred them out into a big blotchy area, while blurring out nothing else but that specific feature!

Even more amazing, the iPhone blurred out the one same specific feature the other videos showed as one blotchy area too, but didn’t use iPhones for their videos!

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JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1514 on: December 27, 2024, 02:01:56 AM »
It’s not about hate
Certainly seems like it.
They show you are wrong, so you make up whatever excuse you want to pretend they aren't not valid, continually lying about it.

As I’ve already told you, NASA isn’t a valid source of evidence, being nobody else can ever confirm their claims or ‘evidence’ is true.
Except astronomers, other space agencies, or even people like you if you have the money and/or resources and knowledge to make your own.

You not wanting to doesn't make it invalid.

Earth as ball has no valid proof of being true, built upon ‘endless space’ first being claimed by them.
No, Earth was known to be round in Ancient Greece.
Long before NASA was thought of.
And there were already enough evidence to convince any sane, honest individual.
Just not people like you.

But notice how you are yet again, spamming crap to flee from your empty claims?

Any sources must be independent parties, or people, and must be confirmed by other sources that are independent and valid sources.
So NASA is an independent party to the claims or Herschel.
Certainly sounds like it should count.
But you reject it, because it doesn't fit your fantasy.

And you just try to group everyone together to pretend they are all the same group so you can dismiss them all.
You are basically saying everyone who says you are wrong are part of the same group so everything they say is invalid.
That is nothing more than dishonest BS.

And it looks like the entire rest of your post is just your pathetic desperation to avoid providing your baseless claims.

Unlike all those who took videos of Saturn independently, confirm the others are true and valid.
Yet are unable to tell if their claims are lies or not.
But what they can do is demonstrate you were lying when you provided the initial low quality crap and claimed it was the motion of Saturn, rather than things like atmospheric turbulence or out of focus cameras.
Great job.

You are yet to provide anything close to being able to show they lied.

You have been told what you can do to demonstrate they lied, and you refuse.

I’m specifically referring to the better quality videos, but they are all evidence to various degrees.
Not for your claim.
If your evidence is too poor a quality to be able to tell if they were lying or not then it is not evidence.

Again, you either need a device as good or better than theirs, in conditions as good or better than theirs, without any devices or processing along the way ruining it; or you need to demonstrate that the device you are using should be capable of seeing such features, such as by taking a 1 m wide picture of Saturn and viewing it through 10 km of sea level atmosphere.
Or, you can detect particular features on Saturn, from multiple different videos from different locations at the same time.

You think an iPhone blurs out
The iPhone is blurring the entire image.

Again, where is your proof they lied?
You are yet to present any.
The closest you get is not being able to tell.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1515 on: December 27, 2024, 05:18:30 AM »
Their claims had no proof to begin with, they had an instrument which was scrapped as junk ages ago, and now that we have proof of their claims being made up, you cry about how I have to prove their made up claims needed no proof at all, others need prove they were bs claims!

I’m sure your iPhone excuse would save your liars, but your claim of an iPhone blurring out these multiple distinct rings they claimed to see without a shred of proof isn’t needed, you can claim all sorts of shit like this and never have to prove a thing!

Anything but prove these multiple distinct belts exist, like they claimed they did, proof isn’t needed for that

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1516 on: December 27, 2024, 01:23:56 PM »
Their claims had no proof to begin with, they had an instrument which was scrapped as junk ages ago, and now that we have proof of their claims being made up, you cry about how I have to prove their made up claims needed no proof at all, others need prove they were bs claims!

I’m sure your iPhone excuse would save your liars, but your claim of an iPhone blurring out these multiple distinct rings they claimed to see without a shred of proof isn’t needed, you can claim all sorts of shit like this and never have to prove a thing!

Anything but prove these multiple distinct belts exist, like they claimed they did, proof isn’t needed for that

You can proclaim until the cows come home, that those astronomers lied and you have proof, but you dont have any proof. Be honest with yourself.

You cannot prove they were untruthful. At best, you might be able to prove they were mistaken, but we are talking about another planet viewed from Earth five hundred years ago.

Unless you look at Saturn through the exact same instrument those astronomers used, with all it's crudeness  (likely to bring out stronger contrasts between dark and light, likely leading to recording what was seen as belts), you will never know.

Besides, if those "belts" on Saturn are just different atmospheric phenomena on a planet seen at that time, ofcourse there is a likelihood there are going to be differences seen 500 years later.

Have you contacted NASA and asked NASA what their opinion is, based off their sophisticated telescopes?

In case I need to state the obvious, NASA has billions of dollars at it's disposal to make investigations and scientific discoveries. The flat earth society has zero dollars ($0.00) at it's disposal to conduct investigations, expeditions, or further the flat earth idea physically.

The Flat Earth Society has $0.00 at it's disposal.

But as a fantasy, flat earth is thriving in a few people's imaginations, including yours, Turbonium.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2024, 07:53:05 PM by Smoke Machine »

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JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1517 on: December 27, 2024, 01:34:56 PM »
Their claims had no proof
Again, the issue here is YOUR CLAIMS!

Stop trying to deflect.

Again, you don't get to accuse long dead people of lying and then demand others prove you wrong.

If you want to make it about their claims, admit you have lied every time you have claimed to have proven they lied. Admit you have no proof that they lied. Retract your claim that they had lied.

Then we can focus on their claims.

Until then, the burden is on YOU to prove they lied.

So either provide your proof, or stop claiming they lied.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1518 on: December 28, 2024, 11:22:56 PM »
Their claims had no proof
Again, the issue here is YOUR CLAIMS!

Stop trying to deflect.

Again, you don't get to accuse long dead people of lying and then demand others prove you wrong.

If you want to make it about their claims, admit you have lied every time you have claimed to have proven they lied. Admit you have no proof that they lied. Retract your claim that they had lied.

Then we can focus on their claims.

Until then, the burden is on YOU to prove they lied.

So either provide your proof, or stop claiming they lied.

You still have no clue about this.

Debating any issue, on a forum thread, in court cases, and so forth, have two sides, opposing one another.

It’s one side and another side, wholly and completely.  We can’t pick something out of a side, then ignore the rest of it.

Clearly, you are defending their claims, not being lies, not proven to be lies.

That’s defending their claims,  you can’t partly defend them as being possibly true, without any proof for them at all!

We can think whatever we want to, say what we think of one’s claims, when there’s not a shred of evidence for those claims!

We are entitled to our own opinion or viewpoint on claims made by people, who claim things are true, without any proof at all.

More so, when they are claims of scientists, because of their significance and importance.

But when those claims of scientists, have such great significance and importance to the entire world, it must be absolutely proven as fact, confirmed as fact, before it’s regarded AS a fact!

But you’re scared of truth, refuse to believe they’ve lied to us about everything.

When their claims about seeing multiple distinct belts on Saturn are proven as falsehoods, with all our video evidence, you cannot accept this, and say none are clear enough to be considered evidence.

As if you’re our authority on what is considered evidence or what is not considered evidence!!

None of us are authorities of what is or isn’t valid evidence, so we have to understand how to determine evidence from what exists, if it is all from one source, connected as one source, or is from independent sources.

See if all of the evidence matches up with the other evidence or differs significantly in many of them, or a few.

You cannot excuse their claims, as falsehoods, proven to be falsehoods.

What do you see their claims to be? You believe they actually saw multiple distinct belts, saw them over and over again for years, to claim that they timed Saturns rotation so accurately?

You’re defending all of their claims, not proven as NOT true, not proven as being lies! 

Their claims are worthless without any proof for them, it doesn’t matter what I call them, what you call them, what anyone of us think of them, because their claims are worthless, and not valid at all, without any proof for them at all.

Others, like myself, don’t need to find no proof exists for their claims being true!

Who can find proof that my claims of seeing flying pink elephants weren’t true? What do you show as proof that I lied about it?

You can’t ‘claim’ I lied about it unless you have proof that I lied!!!  You’re the one who made that claim!!!  You have to prove your claim that I lied!!








*

JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1519 on: December 29, 2024, 01:06:10 AM »
You still have no clue about this.
I do.
It truly is quite simple.
YOU MADE THE CLAIM THEY LIED!
That is the subject of the debate.

That means the burden is on YOU to prove they lied.

All I need to do is demonstrate your claim is not substantiated.
I don't need to prove their claims are true.

This is just like in a court of law, where YOU would be the prosecution, accusing someone of a crime (in this case lying).
The burden is entirely on you to demonstrate their guilt.
The defence does not need to prove they are innocent, all they need to do is show that you haven't proven guilt.

Instead of this reasonable system, you are trying to go for an insane system where the prosecutor is allowed to accuse anyone of any crime and then demand they prove they are innocent and if they can't they get convicted.

That is not how it works.

Stop trying to shift your burden.

Either prove they lied or admit you can't and have been lying yourself every time you claimed to have proven they lied.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1520 on: December 29, 2024, 01:56:09 AM »
Their claims had no proof
Again, the issue here is YOUR CLAIMS!

Stop trying to deflect.

Again, you don't get to accuse long dead people of lying and then demand others prove you wrong.

If you want to make it about their claims, admit you have lied every time you have claimed to have proven they lied. Admit you have no proof that they lied. Retract your claim that they had lied.

Then we can focus on their claims.

Until then, the burden is on YOU to prove they lied.

So either provide your proof, or stop claiming they lied.

You still have no clue about this.

Debating any issue, on a forum thread, in court cases, and so forth, have two sides, opposing one another.

It’s one side and another side, wholly and completely.  We can’t pick something out of a side, then ignore the rest of it.

Clearly, you are defending their claims, not being lies, not proven to be lies.

That’s defending their claims,  you can’t partly defend them as being possibly true, without any proof for them at all!

We can think whatever we want to, say what we think of one’s claims, when there’s not a shred of evidence for those claims!

We are entitled to our own opinion or viewpoint on claims made by people, who claim things are true, without any proof at all.

More so, when they are claims of scientists, because of their significance and importance.

But when those claims of scientists, have such great significance and importance to the entire world, it must be absolutely proven as fact, confirmed as fact, before it’s regarded AS a fact!

But you’re scared of truth, refuse to believe they’ve lied to us about everything.

When their claims about seeing multiple distinct belts on Saturn are proven as falsehoods, with all our video evidence, you cannot accept this, and say none are clear enough to be considered evidence.

As if you’re our authority on what is considered evidence or what is not considered evidence!!

None of us are authorities of what is or isn’t valid evidence, so we have to understand how to determine evidence from what exists, if it is all from one source, connected as one source, or is from independent sources.

See if all of the evidence matches up with the other evidence or differs significantly in many of them, or a few.

You cannot excuse their claims, as falsehoods, proven to be falsehoods.

What do you see their claims to be? You believe they actually saw multiple distinct belts, saw them over and over again for years, to claim that they timed Saturns rotation so accurately?

You’re defending all of their claims, not proven as NOT true, not proven as being lies! 

Their claims are worthless without any proof for them, it doesn’t matter what I call them, what you call them, what anyone of us think of them, because their claims are worthless, and not valid at all, without any proof for them at all.

Others, like myself, don’t need to find no proof exists for their claims being true!

Who can find proof that my claims of seeing flying pink elephants weren’t true? What do you show as proof that I lied about it?

You can’t ‘claim’ I lied about it unless you have proof that I lied!!!  You’re the one who made that claim!!!  You have to prove your claim that I lied!!

Five hundred years ago, those astronomers saw belts on Saturn and they recorded what they observed, the best they could.

End of story.

You have to prove those Astronomers didn't see those belts, and made it all up, and we all know you fucking can't. Can you time travel back five hundred years and stand beside those astronomers and look through their telescopes at Saturn, and see what they were seeing? No, you cannot.

End of story. You lost the debate. So, stop being a sore loser.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1521 on: January 05, 2025, 12:51:40 AM »
You still have no clue about this.
I do.
It truly is quite simple.
YOU MADE THE CLAIM THEY LIED!
That is the subject of the debate.

That means the burden is on YOU to prove they lied.

All I need to do is demonstrate your claim is not substantiated.
I don't need to prove their claims are true.

This is just like in a court of law, where YOU would be the prosecution, accusing someone of a crime (in this case lying).
The burden is entirely on you to demonstrate their guilt.
The defence does not need to prove they are innocent, all they need to do is show that you haven't proven guilt.

Instead of this reasonable system, you are trying to go for an insane system where the prosecutor is allowed to accuse anyone of any crime and then demand they prove they are innocent and if they can't they get convicted.

That is not how it works.

Stop trying to shift your burden.

Either prove they lied or admit you can't and have been lying yourself every time you claimed to have proven they lied.

No, in a court of law, those who make claims that have no proof of their claims at all are given one more chance to prove them, if even that much.

It’s not up to others to look for evidence they are lying or telling the truth, it’s those who make claims in the first place who have the burden of proof for their claims.

What we say about their baseless claims is not the issue, we can say anything about their claims, whether we think them lies, or just being honest mistakes, etc.

If you think their claims are not lies, you think they’re true. If you think there’s no proof of their claims being lies, you think their claims are true, as not being lies, not being proven as lies doesn’t matter at all, even if there IS proof of being lies, which there is in this case, it’s not relevant nor often can be proven as lies, it’s all the rest of the evidence, if it’s possibly valid.

Why would you even think it’s my burden to show proof of their claims which have never had any proof to START with?

Do you really believe that when someone makes a claim, but has no proof of their claims as true, nobody else can have any view on it? That if anyone has a view on someone’s claims, because they have no proof, nobody else can have their own opinion on it?

There’s been countless claims made by people, in politics alone, who’ve made claims without any proof at all.

There’s been countless claims without any proof for them being true, we’ve regarded as being lies, half truths, when all of the factors are considered and studied for their claims.

When we’ve said or determined by all the factors involved with those claims, that they were wrong, or falsehoods, or intentionally known by them as falsehoods, that’s how we conclude they are lies.

In your wacko world, almost nobody in all human history ever has lied, because you think anyone who has lied, has written or said on an actual recording he had lied about this specific claim or claims!

Nothing else will prove someone lied!!

That’s why everything about a claim - that has no proof or valid evidence for it - has to be looked into, when those claims are so important and significant to the entire world and that’s the case here.

Their specific claims on Saturn, don’t end there, it’s only one example of it, for the entire story goes from that one example…

You cannot avoid their bs claims, I’m the only one who showed their claims up here, that’s the issue here.

Don’t act like a complete moron, you know I’m referring to their claims as this IS the only issue here.

That’s what BOTH of us have been talking about.

How can you claim to not defend their claims, yet bleat over and over again that you know there’s no proof they lied about anything at all?

Because you don’t like their claims, cannot defend their claims at all, you think you can ignore their bs claims because you’ll get ripped apart in seconds?

Their claims are complete bs.
These very specific, very detailed descriptions they put in their reports, they knew would look more genuine and authentic to others.

Indeed, it established such greater appearance of an authentic report(s).

But we’ve now seen, a description this much in detail, is completely impossible to be true.

Their claim of seeing five distinct belts - alone - is proven as false.

And we also know why they claimed to see multiple ‘distinct’ belts on Saturn.

After claiming to see multiple ‘distinct’ belts, then they could claim to see the belts ‘edges’.

And claim to see one of the belts having parallel edges over it, but only on one side of that belt.

Because then they claimed to see the other side of that belt which had no parallel edges, have a very unique and distinct ‘feature’ on one of the edges, and saw its exact position on Saturn, and saw it move to other positions, hours later on, and eventually timed its movements on Saturn, and found them as the same time over and over again.


Except now, we don’t see anything close to what they claimed to see, what they’ve never proved, what nobody else since then hasn’t proven either.

How can you still believe they saw all of this, when we’ve never even come close to seeing anything like that?

Nobody, but you, is defending their worthless and puffed up fairy tale story, the whole thing is built on lies, it’s all bs.

Right, the multiple distinct belts are blurred into one big blotchy area, with an iPhone camera taking the video.

Being seen by eye, through that telescope, we would see these multiple distinct belts that they claimed to see!

And we’d also see the edges of those distinct belts, and we’d see that same unique and distinct feature on the edge of a belt, like they claimed to see!

But that’s all what YOU believe we’d see, that is what you must prove is true, what you must prove they’re not lies.

A lie is based on someones claim that has no proof or evidence for their claims, based on all the factors. And so is a mistaken claim that has no proof, also based on all the factors.

If I claimed to see flying pink elephants going around Saturn, but have no proof at all, don’t call me a liar, because you have no proof of me lying about it!

I’ll ask you to look around the Earth and see if nobody else on Earth has seen those same pink elephants as I have seen.

I’ll tell you that I saw them in  nearly perfect conditions at one specific point on Earth, so you have to go to that same point on Earth I did, and it must be in identical conditions as I was in!

You’re trying the same bs, nothing different than pink elephants I could claim aren’t proven a lie.

Nobody who makes a claim, and has no proof for their claim, has to be proven as a liar by others. 



*

JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1522 on: January 05, 2025, 01:13:26 AM »
No, in a court of law, those who make claims that have no proof of their claims at all are given one more chance to prove them, if even that much.
It’s not up to others to look for evidence they are lying or telling the truth, it’s those who make claims in the first place who have the burden of proof for their claims.
That's right, and here you have made a claim, and have not been able to substantiate them.
You have effectively taken on the role of the prosecution, where you need to prove the guilt of those you are accusing.
The burden of proof is on YOU, the one who came here and claimed these people are liars.

The prosecution does get to demand the defendant prove they are innocent and if they can't deem them to be guilty.

What we say about their baseless claims is not the issue
No, that is the very issue being discussed.
YOU claimed they lied, that is what is at issue here.
That is even what you made the title of the thread.

If you think their claims are not lies
I have objected to your claim that they are lies, as you are yet to show that.
So the burden remains on you.

Why would you even think it’s my burden
Because you claimed they lied.

Do you really believe that when someone makes a claim, but has no proof of their claims as true, nobody else can have any view on it?
And there is a difference between having a view, and boldly proclaiming that view as fact.
Once you have a view on it, people can challenge you on that.

There’s been countless claims without any proof for them being true
Yes, such as pretty much every claim you have ever made.

When we’ve said or determined by all the factors involved with those claims, that they were wrong, or falsehoods, or intentionally known by them as falsehoods, that’s how we conclude they are lies.
And you are yet to do so.
Instead, it doesn't match your fantasy, you lump together everything that supports it as being in on the lie, and then dismiss it as a lie.

You have NOTHING to demonstrate they lied.

In your wacko world, almost nobody in all human history ever has lied
No, that is yet another strawman from you, because

Don’t act like a complete moron
I'm not. Which is why I'm saying you need to prove your claims, rather than just accepting your baseless BS.

Their claims are complete bs.
PROVE IT!

Their claim of seeing five distinct belts - alone - is proven as false.
No, that is just your baseless claim.
You are yet to prove that false.

\
Nobody, but you, is defending
Again, I'm not defending them. I'm objecting to YOUR baseless claim.

But that’s all what YOU believe we’d see, that is what you must prove is true, what you must prove they’re not lies.
Again, not how it works.
YOU claimed they lied, so the burden is on YOU to show they lied.
It is not on everyone else to prove they didn't.

A lie is based on someones claim that has no proof or evidence for their claims
No it isn't.
In part because it is entirely possible to make a claim that is true with no evidence for it.

don’t call me a liar, because you have no proof of me lying about it!
I have plenty of examples of you lying.

But again, you are making a dishonest comparison yet again.
Why don't you go back in time and demand proof from them?

Nobody who makes a claim, and has no proof for their claim, has to be proven as a liar by others.
Except by those who wish to call them liars, who pick up that burden by calling them liars.

So provide your evidence or stop claiming they are liars.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1523 on: January 10, 2025, 07:18:42 PM »
No, in a court of law, those who make claims that have no proof of their claims at all are given one more chance to prove them, if even that much.
It’s not up to others to look for evidence they are lying or telling the truth, it’s those who make claims in the first place who have the burden of proof for their claims.
That's right, and here you have made a claim, and have not been able to substantiate them.
You have effectively taken on the role of the prosecution, where you need to prove the guilt of those you are accusing.
The burden of proof is on YOU, the one who came here and claimed these people are liars.

The prosecution does get to demand the defendant prove they are innocent and if they can't deem them to be guilty.

What we say about their baseless claims is not the issue
No, that is the very issue being discussed.
YOU claimed they lied, that is what is at issue here.
That is even what you made the title of the thread.

If you think their claims are not lies
I have objected to your claim that they are lies, as you are yet to show that.
So the burden remains on you.

Why would you even think it’s my burden
Because you claimed they lied.

Do you really believe that when someone makes a claim, but has no proof of their claims as true, nobody else can have any view on it?
And there is a difference between having a view, and boldly proclaiming that view as fact.
Once you have a view on it, people can challenge you on that.

There’s been countless claims without any proof for them being true
Yes, such as pretty much every claim you have ever made.

When we’ve said or determined by all the factors involved with those claims, that they were wrong, or falsehoods, or intentionally known by them as falsehoods, that’s how we conclude they are lies.
And you are yet to do so.
Instead, it doesn't match your fantasy, you lump together everything that supports it as being in on the lie, and then dismiss it as a lie.

You have NOTHING to demonstrate they lied.

In your wacko world, almost nobody in all human history ever has lied
No, that is yet another strawman from you, because

Don’t act like a complete moron
I'm not. Which is why I'm saying you need to prove your claims, rather than just accepting your baseless BS.

Their claims are complete bs.
PROVE IT!

Their claim of seeing five distinct belts - alone - is proven as false.
No, that is just your baseless claim.
You are yet to prove that false.

\
Nobody, but you, is defending
Again, I'm not defending them. I'm objecting to YOUR baseless claim.

But that’s all what YOU believe we’d see, that is what you must prove is true, what you must prove they’re not lies.
Again, not how it works.
YOU claimed they lied, so the burden is on YOU to show they lied.
It is not on everyone else to prove they didn't.

A lie is based on someones claim that has no proof or evidence for their claims
No it isn't.
In part because it is entirely possible to make a claim that is true with no evidence for it.

don’t call me a liar, because you have no proof of me lying about it!
I have plenty of examples of you lying.

But again, you are making a dishonest comparison yet again.
Why don't you go back in time and demand proof from them?

Nobody who makes a claim, and has no proof for their claim, has to be proven as a liar by others.
Except by those who wish to call them liars, who pick up that burden by calling them liars.

So provide your evidence or stop claiming they are liars.

When you haven’t any evidence first of all to support their claims as true, you’ve lost the argument already.

You cannot avoid/ignore your burden of proving their claims are true and valid, that’s the very issue here.

It isn’t relevant if their claims have or haven’t been proven to be lies, or might be lies, or maybe partly a lie, partly true…..

Their claims have no evidence at all, while there IS evidence, overwhelming evidence that proves their claims ARE or WERE lies!

You refuse to believe all our evidence, because it doesn’t support their claims are true or valid at all. 

These videos vary in quality, sharpness, magnification, etc. I’m not saying they’re all great quality videos, some are not good enough to be considered valid evidence, that’s true for any object on videos.

The best quality videos, that we’ve seen, already, show there’s not even a chance in hell that there’s multiple ‘distinct’ belts on Saturn, because our best quality videos show the same features, and show just one large area on Saturn there, and all show its in rapid motion along its edges, of that feature on Saturn, even at that distance seen in these videos…

Evidence isn’t your decision, or my decision, or anyone’s decision.

What decides something as evidence or not evidence is above anyone’s opinions.

We have seen all the evidence that exists, and proves they lied, prove their claims are true, and one large feature on Saturn with ever changing edges becomes seen as multiple distinct belts with sharp fixed edges on them all, before we see a unique and distinct feature on one belts edge, in a fixed position, which is later seen at other fixed positions on Saturn!!!



Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1524 on: January 10, 2025, 10:35:20 PM »
What makes their claim of seeing a distinct fixed feature they claim to see on an edge of one of five distinct belts they claimed to see…..may be what you wish to believe is true, what you may believe will finally save their ridiculous claims which went way too far in details to ever hold up as true…..

No, it’s not up to me to look all over the world to find something you say is going to be proof of your liars not lying!

Their claims of multiple distinct belts being seen on Saturn, are only proven to not be lies by proof of these multiple distinct belts being seen on videos of Saturn, and many such videos showing them, because that would prove their claims are true, or at least possibly true.

They’d have to explain why all the other videos show just one large area, with changing edges all the time happening.

Look closely at what you see on these videos. Do you really believe their telescope was so much better than ours show Saturn, with one large feature with changing edges on it?

What do you think we’d see from this point, showing the one large feature with changing edges on it?

You believe the one large feature will split apart into separate distinct belts? How would that happen?

This miracle transformation doesn’t need your explanation, there is no explanation for it, because there’s nothing that proves any of their claims are true in the very least.

Which of their claims do you want proof of being a lie? There’s many lies they told us here, not just one or two!

Please cite some other examples of proving someone lied, and how they proved it…

What famous cases about proving someone’s claims were lies?

We’ve had many cases where people were caught lying, right?

Unless they’re caught on video or audio recordings, of course, which can be argued against as being faked or tampered with, too.

Did Clinton lie about his actions? Anyone else caught lying?

They made claims, first of all. They stated something that they had done, or had seen, or not done or seen.

Courts of law are to find out which side is the liar, by the other side proving their account is the truth.

One showing the truth is what proves the other has lied.


When their claims are held up to scrutiny, they failed miserably.

How can these great scientists who formed a new science called ‘Astronomy’, the pioneers of seeing ‘space’ beyond all mortal views…lie about anything?

Their claims are deliberate lies, not a mistake or a bunch of mistakes.

Their descriptions are no mistakes of some sort.

They’re giving out a clear description of things claimed to be seen.

You fear what I called them is the truth, ignore all evidence showing that’s the truth, that you haven’t any proof until I get your proof for you, because it’s there for me to get for you!

Nobody, ever, has to search for some Jack ass who has no proof, because he thinks he can ask others to find proof because he doesn’t HAVE any proof for his argument!

In a court of law, their claims would be put on trial, held to show evidence for those claims being valid and true. 

You’re defending their claims as valid and true, and you’d be on trial to support their claims with evidence.

You’d have no evidence for their claims being valid or true.

You’d hold up NASA ‘images’ as evidence, and it would be dismissed because it’s not confirmed by others as valid evidence. They even cite their claims as accurate, close to their findings, out goes NASA
‘evidence’ there.

You’d be asked why there’s no proof of these multiple distinct belts and a unique fixed feature on an edge of a belt.

You’d say there’s no video good enough to show the belts yet.

The judge would say that’s not our problem, you don’t have evidence, don’t claim there IS evidence when you don’t have any evidence.

Then you’d cry about being called a liar, and say they need to prove you’re a liar!

The judge would say you haven’t any proof for THEIR claims at all, you’re on trial FOR those claims!



*

JackBlack

  • 23785
Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1525 on: January 11, 2025, 01:09:06 AM »
When you haven’t any evidence first of all to support
Again, acting like a prosecutor demanding the defendant proves they are innocent.

Again, it truly is incredibly simple.
YOU claimed they lied, so the burden is on you to prove it.
Until you do, you have lost the argument.
I am under no obligation to prove they told the truth to object to your baseless claim that they lied.
Especially when the only way you can try to pretend your position is valid by dismissing other things as lies by grouping them together.
So you have a claim of lies built upon further claims of lies.

So prove they lied, or give up.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1526 on: January 11, 2025, 03:47:08 AM »
The defendants made their claims, without any proof for their claims being true.

They are now required to show their proof, or those who defend their claims as true, to show any proof for these claims.

That is what everyone should demand of you as a defender of their claims as valid and true.

You don’t defend their claims at all, except claim there’s no proof their claims are lies!

You need to show proof for their claims to prove they aren’t lies, which you don’t have, so you’re argument is toast.

You’d be laughed out of court trying that crap

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1527 on: January 11, 2025, 03:50:57 AM »
‘Your honor, I’m not defending their unproven claims, I am demanding they prove them as lies, and want everyone to leave their claims alone!’

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1528 on: January 11, 2025, 03:51:43 AM »
The defendants made their claims, without any proof for their claims being true.

They are now required to show their proof, or those who defend their claims as true, to show any proof for these claims.

That is what everyone should demand of you as a defender of their claims as valid and true.

You don’t defend their claims at all, except claim there’s no proof their claims are lies!

You need to show proof for their claims to prove they aren’t lies, which you don’t have, so you’re argument is toast.

You’d be laughed out of court trying that crap

If what they said is false, there are two alternatives.

1) They were mistaken.
2) They lied.

You can't prove they weren't mistaken, so you can't prove they lied.

Let's be honest, you can't even prove what they said was false.

So stop being a fucking jerk. You have lost this argument.

Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« Reply #1529 on: January 11, 2025, 04:20:07 AM »
I’ve already explained why it’s not a mistake.

They’ve described it in great detail, the multiple distinct belts and there edges, one which is half parallel edges, the other half not parallel with a distinct, unique feature on that edge, which they claimed to see in a fixed position on Saturn, and mapped its position on Saturn, and saw it move to other fixed positions which they also mapped out.

That’s not a mistake, they either saw and described all this, or they made the whole thing up.

At this point, there’s enough good videos showing they made it all up without any doubt.

We can hardly see a large feature on the orb right now. Do you really think they could see multiple distinct belts and their edges, one being partly parallel edges, the other side having a distinct fixed feature, they saw move to other positions on Saturn, and eventually timed the rotation by that fixed feature?

They clearly made it all up, to appear genuine. It worked perfectly.

But those details show it’s made up now. It backfired on them in the end.