Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain

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Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« on: May 07, 2023, 02:23:09 PM »
So… Something like this toy was posted in another thread concerning den pressure.



But not as frightening in appearance.

And it got me thinking about den pressure.

Why are the pins holding their positions?  Den pressure should be working to move them?  I need help understanding the “theory” of den pressure on this. 

If you take the pin art and tilt the board down, the pins start to slide down towards earth.  At about 45 degrees almost all the pins move to their stop.



I understand with gravity the motivational force is at first perpendicular to the pins, and why the pins move as tilt towards the earth increases.  The force of gravity goes from being perpendicular to inline with how the pins move.


I don’t get the alternate den pressure.

To me, “pressure” can get things to move when an air current from high pressure to low pressure is created and things are “carried along” in the movement of gasses to equalize.

Or for a liquid in a hydraulic jack.  A plunger is pushed on one side, the hydraulic fluid displaces and pushes the other plunger out. 


Back to the pin art board and den pressure.  How are the pins holding their position before tilting?  It’s surrounded by den pressure. 

And if you tilt, how does pressure cause the pins to move with no current flow down with low pressure pressing the pins into higher pressure.   When gas laws show when gasses are in sealed containers when connected with a flow path high pressure will flow and equalize with low pressure.  Supposedly the earth is in a sealed container with a dome? 

Anyway.  A slight tilt, no real change in pressure with no means as defined by fluid power, and the pins start to move. 


With the pin art board vertical and stationary.  In den pressure, why aren’t the pins at least gradually pushed farther and farther out as the rows get closer to earth? 

The board being vertical, the pins are stationary.  But as a tilt is induced with no downward air current flow, the pins supposedly move down by a less dense atmosphere into a more dense atmosphere?  With the bottom rows of pins moving with no real change in height? 



« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 02:27:50 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2023, 10:59:32 PM »
The pin art is an analogy of atmospheric displacement.


If you can't get your head around that then it's pointless for me to try to explain anything to you, to be fair.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2023, 11:57:28 PM »
The pin art is an analogy of atmospheric displacement.


If you can't get your head around that then it's pointless for me to try to explain anything to you, to be fair.
Alright, forget the analogy. Why aren't the things Data describes happening to an actual pin board?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2023, 01:19:37 AM »
The pin art is an analogy of atmospheric displacement.


If you can't get your head around that then it's pointless for me to try to explain anything to you, to be fair.
Alright, forget the analogy. Why aren't the things Data describes happening to an actual pin board?
I don't even know what you're getting at.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2023, 01:45:36 AM »
The pin art is an analogy of atmospheric displacement.


If you can't get your head around that then it's pointless for me to try to explain anything to you, to be fair.
Alright, forget the analogy. Why aren't the things Data describes happening to an actual pin board?
I don't even know what you're getting at.

That your den pressure is not present and how it fails to act on the art pin board when it’s vertical. Why.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2023, 03:13:05 AM »
The pin art is an analogy of atmospheric displacement.


If you can't get your head around that then it's pointless for me to try to explain anything to you, to be fair.
Alright, forget the analogy. Why aren't the things Data describes happening to an actual pin board?
I don't even know what you're getting at.

That your den pressure is not present and how it fails to act on the art pin board when it’s vertical. Why.
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2023, 03:32:11 AM »
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

It’s clear you have no explanation.  And it’s clear that den pressure is a delusion with no set of provable consistent characteristics.

Only your add hoc BS that often contradicts itself. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2023, 09:05:15 AM »
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

It’s clear you have no explanation.  And it’s clear that den pressure is a delusion with no set of provable consistent characteristics.

Only your add hoc BS that often contradicts itself.
Wise may be correct.

Anyway, regardless, you still have no clue about denpressure and yet you're trying to argue against it.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2023, 10:05:01 AM »
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

It’s clear you have no explanation.  And it’s clear that den pressure is a delusion with no set of provable consistent characteristics.

Only your add hoc BS that often contradicts itself.
Wise may be correct.

Anyway, regardless, you still have no clue about denpressure and yet you're trying to argue against it.

Why would anyone have a clue about your delusion when you can’t even devise an experiment to show its real, and can’t explain why den pressure doesn’t push the pins to their stops on a vertical pin art board.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 12:22:24 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2023, 03:18:20 PM »
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

It’s clear you have no explanation.  And it’s clear that den pressure is a delusion with no set of provable consistent characteristics.

Only your add hoc BS that often contradicts itself.
Wise may be correct.

Anyway, regardless, you still have no clue about denpressure and yet you're trying to argue against it.

I love compare and contrast.

This is what I think is going on…

I understand with gravity the motivational force is at first perpendicular to the pins, and why the pins move as tilt towards the earth increases.  The force of gravity goes from being perpendicular to inline with how the pins move.


 Now.  How can den pressure create a more accurate model as the pin art board is tilted. 

Why are the pins stationary until tilt is initiated.  With den pressure, why would there be movement with tilt before the board is perpendicular to the ground.  And why would the pins move to their stops way before the board is perpendicular at 45 degrees.  But be stationary surrounded at the same pressure while vertical.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 04:17:45 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2023, 10:00:09 AM »
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

It’s clear you have no explanation.  And it’s clear that den pressure is a delusion with no set of provable consistent characteristics.

Only your add hoc BS that often contradicts itself.
Wise may be correct.

Anyway, regardless, you still have no clue about denpressure and yet you're trying to argue against it.

Why would anyone have a clue about your delusion when you can’t even devise an experiment to show its real, and can’t explain why den pressure doesn’t push the pins to their stops on a vertical pin art board.
If you want to carry on getting angry then don't put up a topic trying to understand something you clearly do not want to understand.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2023, 10:04:03 AM »
You have no clue what you're arguing against. It's clear to see that.

It’s clear you have no explanation.  And it’s clear that den pressure is a delusion with no set of provable consistent characteristics.

Only your add hoc BS that often contradicts itself.
Wise may be correct.

Anyway, regardless, you still have no clue about denpressure and yet you're trying to argue against it.

I love compare and contrast.

This is what I think is going on…

I understand with gravity the motivational force is at first perpendicular to the pins, and why the pins move as tilt towards the earth increases.  The force of gravity goes from being perpendicular to inline with how the pins move.


 Now.  How can den pressure create a more accurate model as the pin art board is tilted. 

Why are the pins stationary until tilt is initiated.  With den pressure, why would there be movement with tilt before the board is perpendicular to the ground.  And why would the pins move to their stops way before the board is perpendicular at 45 degrees.  But be stationary surrounded at the same pressure while vertical.
Before you do anything I think you need to know why I used the analogy of the pin art.


It's about actions and equal and opposite reactions. It's about a force that is mimicked.

You just want to try and argue the pins on their own but you offer nothing to effect anything. You actually forget about needing a force and displacement.
I explained it and it is no different to the pin art pins displacing so I can't understand how you can't get it.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2023, 10:08:16 AM »

 You actually forget about needing a force and displacement.


So.  With den pressure what changes between the board being vertical to being tilted to push the pins into more dens atmosphere with less dense atmosphere. 

Again..

“To me, “pressure” can get things to move when an air current from high pressure to low pressure is created and things are “carried along” in the movement of gasses to equalize.

Or for a liquid in a hydraulic jack.  A plunger is pushed on one side, the hydraulic fluid displaces and pushes the other plunger out. 


Back to the pin art board and den pressure.  How are the pins holding their position before tilting?  It’s surrounded by den pressure. “

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2023, 10:07:31 PM »

 You actually forget about needing a force and displacement.


So.  With den pressure what changes between the board being vertical to being tilted to push the pins into more dens atmosphere with less dense atmosphere. 
Stacking. Layering.

Quote from: DataOverFlow
Again..

“To me, “pressure” can get things to move when an air current from high pressure to low pressure is created and things are “carried along” in the movement of gasses to equalize.
Just remember pressure is the action of a push by energy and resistance is always required no matter what.
Heat/vibration/friction and frequency must always be transferred to enable this to happen.
Quote from: DataOverFlow
Or for a liquid in a hydraulic jack.  A plunger is pushed on one side, the hydraulic fluid displaces and pushes the other plunger out. 
It requires energy to push and there has to be resistance to that push. Think on it.


Quote from: DataOverFlow
Back to the pin art board and den pressure.  How are the pins holding their position before tilting?  It’s surrounded by den pressure. “
Layering. They sit within fairly even layering.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2023, 02:43:03 AM »
Just remember pressure is the action of a push by energy and resistance is always required no matter what.
Good job! You described a word in a way that conforms to it's dictionary definition. However, resistance is not always required. Now, you claim that a vacuum is impossible. However, unless the universe is infinite, there must be a vacuum surrounding it. If you were to accelerate the entire universe, every molecule, at the same time, it would encounter no resistance, because everything that it could hit is moving at the same relative speed.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2023, 03:38:29 AM »

 You actually forget about needing a force and displacement.


So.  With den pressure what changes between the board being vertical to being tilted to push the pins into more dens atmosphere with less dense atmosphere. 
Stacking. Layering.

Quote from: DataOverFlow
Again..

“To me, “pressure” can get things to move when an air current from high pressure to low pressure is created and things are “carried along” in the movement of gasses to equalize.
Just remember pressure is the action of a push by energy and resistance is always required no matter what.
Heat/vibration/friction and frequency must always be transferred to enable this to happen.
Quote from: DataOverFlow
Or for a liquid in a hydraulic jack.  A plunger is pushed on one side, the hydraulic fluid displaces and pushes the other plunger out. 
It requires energy to push and there has to be resistance to that push. Think on it.


Quote from: DataOverFlow
Back to the pin art board and den pressure.  How are the pins holding their position before tilting?  It’s surrounded by den pressure. “
Layering. They sit within fairly even layering.

Word salad. 

Why isn’t the pressure pushing the pins when the board is vertical.  Pins are free to move with the same den pressure.

And how is “pressure” making pins move with no downward current flow once the pin art is tilted by less dense air into more dense air.

Again.  Pressure doesn’t make things move unless there is actual air flow from greater pressure to lower pressure. 

How is den pressure making the pins move with no mass migration of diatomic oxygen and nitrogen atoms down.  Just they’re normal bouncing all around the pins together in random patterns. 

 

Gravity explains why the greater pressure at sea level doesn’t vent to the less pressure of the upper atmosphere. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 03:43:05 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2023, 06:27:34 AM »
Fluid power…

Quote
Definition of Flow Rate

For work to be accomplished, there must be motion (a physics pro would say work requires both a force and a distance moved). We can measure the fluid traveling through the tubes as it expands or contracts the cylinders or other loads.

https://control.com/technical-articles/info-byte-definition-of-pressure-and-flow-in-fluid-systems/



The ball moves because there is flow from high pressure to low pressure as the atmosphere impinges on the ball as the pressure equalizes.





With the pin board vertical in static pressure.  There is no air flow.  The amount the atmosphere hits the pin balances out.  No net force to move the pin.





Now.  In the same static atmosphere.  With no gravity in your delusion. When the pin art board is tilted.  There is no reason for the higher up atmosphere with less pressure, less molecules, providing less collisions to drive the pin into greater pressure with more molecules providing more collisions.




Gravity is the force that pulls the pin into higher pressure with more collisions.

We can see that a static atmosphere doesn’t actually push things down in this slow motion video of a dropped ball

It’s clear the ball is pulled down by the way the drag of the ball creates a wake and swirls as it falls.



We can see by the wake and the way the air swirls left by the dropped ball it’s pulled by gravity through the atmosphere.  The ball doesn’t fall because it’s pushed by atmosphere.

Same with the tilted pin art board.  There is no reason to believe a static atmosphere caused the pins to move from less dense atmosphere into more dense atmosphere providing more collisions as defined by fluid power. Every indication it was pulled by a force called gravity. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 06:35:00 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2023, 07:32:10 AM »
Just remember pressure is the action of a push by energy and resistance is always required no matter what.
Good job! You described a word in a way that conforms to it's dictionary definition. However, resistance is not always required.
Resistance is always required. Nothing can work without energy/force and resistance to it.
Quote from: Magicalus

 Now, you claim that a vacuum is impossible.
Absolutely impossible.
Quote from: Magicalus

 However, unless the universe is infinite, there must be a vacuum surrounding it.
Nope. There always has to be something, not nothing.

Quote from: Magicalus

 If you were to accelerate the entire universe, every molecule, at the same time, it would encounter no resistance, because everything that it could hit is moving at the same relative speed.
Then you couldn't accelerate it in the first place.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2023, 07:38:24 AM »
Why isn’t the pressure pushing the pins when the board is vertical.
you mean when the board is vertical but the pins are horizontal?
If so, pressure is always upon everything because everything displaces its own dense mass of atmosphere, as I've said so many times.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Pins are free to move with the same den pressure.
No they aren't free to move unless energy forces that move.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
And how is “pressure” making pins move with no downward current flow once the pin art is tilted by less dense air into more dense air.
The displacement of it.

Pay attention.
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Again.  Pressure doesn’t make things move unless there is actual air flow from greater pressure to lower pressure.

There is always atmospheric changes from high to low pressure.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Gravity explains why the greater pressure at sea level doesn’t vent to the less pressure of the upper atmosphere.
Gravity explains nothing because it does not exist.
Denpressure explains it very well.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2023, 08:07:40 AM »
Fluid power…
Definition of Flow Rate

For work to be accomplished, there must be motion (a physics pro would say work requires both a force and a distance moved). We can measure the fluid traveling through the tubes as it expands or contracts the cylinders or other loads.

https://control.com/technical-articles/info-byte-definition-of-pressure-and-flow-in-fluid-systems/
Any work is movement. Any work is compression by expansion. Basically, any work is applied energy by vibration/friction and frequency in any dense mass movement on any dense mass resistance.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

The ball moves because there is flow from high pressure to low pressure as the atmosphere impinges on the ball as the pressure equalizes.

The balloon requires energy to stretch it and to transfer the external atmosphere to the balloon's internal.
The balloon is now displacing the atmosphere much more than it was when it was uninflated.

The energy needed to stretch the balloon is now potential energy because the balloon is displacing the atmosphere by atmospheric compression from within, aided by the applied energy of the blowing up.

Now the atmosphere is crushing back onto that balloon as that balloon is crushing into the atmosphere. Breach it and the atmosphere retakes its place but anything in its way will feel the reactionary force from the breach. In this case the ball.
It's a basic way to how rockets work in real life in terms of action and equal and opposite reaction with the atmosphere.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

With the pin board vertical in static pressure.  There is no air flow.  The amount the atmosphere hits the pin balances out.  No net force to move the pin.
I already told you this.
The pin is in the layers horizontally so no movement on either side because the displacement is fairly equal in those few horizontal layers.
But there is the displacement from above and below that is unequal which is why the pin will rest on the bottom of the board's hole.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Now.  In the same static atmosphere.  With no gravity in your delusion. When the pin art board is tilted.  There is no reason for the higher up atmosphere with less pressure, less molecules, providing less collisions to drive the pin into greater pressure with more molecules providing more collisions.
In this state you've caused unequal displacement in the layers to a degree where the above layers are displaced by the pins' dense mass which now runs through many layers on an angle.
To offer you a better idea just bring up the liquid stack I did earlier and insert your pin at an angle and see what I'm saying.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Gravity is the force that pulls the pin into higher pressure with more collisions.
No such thing as pull. Pull makes no sense in reality but the saying is fine for what we perceive in terms of pulling open a door or pulling a cart. The reality is, everything is compression by expansion or push and resistance to push. No pull is required for anything.
So no gravity in any reality except a fairy story told and sold as reality.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
We can see that a static atmosphere doesn’t actually push things down in this slow motion video of a dropped ball
The atmosphere is never static.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
It’s clear the ball is pulled down by the way the drag of the ball creates a wake and swirls as it falls.


We can see by the wake and the way the air swirls left by the dropped ball it’s pulled by gravity through the atmosphere.  The ball doesn’t fall because it’s pushed by atmosphere.

I don't see that image but nevertheless, the dense mass is what displaces the atmosphere and is squeezed back down because it took energy to put it there in the first place. So potential energy is realised once the energy to place it there is let go to release it and then it's merely crushed down against below resistance which is not enough to stop the ball

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Same with the tilted pin art board.  There is no reason to believe a static atmosphere caused the pins to move from less dense atmosphere into more dense atmosphere providing more collisions as defined by fluid power. Every indication it was pulled by a force called gravity.
It's never static but it's always a pressure upon any dense mass that displaces it, as I've mentioned so many times.

And there's never any indication that it's pulled by gravity. You only say this because you basically go with what you're officially told.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2023, 08:23:02 AM »


If so, pressure is always upon everything because everything displaces its own dense mass of atmosphere, as I've said so many times.

No.  Pressure is the force of gas molecules hitting something.

You can have an empty gas bottle with nothing inside to displace but the gas in the bottle. 

You can fill the bottle with pure oxygen gas.

Increase the number of gas molecules inside the bottle, the more pressure inside the bottle. 

In the vacuum of space, there is effectively no pressure on an object because there is negligible gas providing essentially zero collisions with the object.

The same with a feather dropped in a tube with the atmosphere drawn out.

Take the same tube with the atmosphere drawn out, take it to absolute zero, there would be no pressure.  You can throw ten or twenty feathers in and do the same.  There are no gasses to displace, then there is no increase in pressure.



no they aren't free to move unless energy forces that move.

And the only way “pressure” can do that if it causes a movement of fluid from high pressure to low pressure.


The displacement of it.


That is the point.  In den pressure there is nothing in fluid power to make the pins move during the tilt.

There is no current flow. There is no net movement of gas molecules pushing in a down direction. 

The less dense atmosphere with less molecules proving less collisions and thus less pressure isn’t going to drive the pin down into more dense atmosphere providing more collisions with the pin.






There is always atmospheric changes from high to low pressure.

You love contradicting yourself.
Then why are the pins perfectly stationary holding their position when the pin board is vertical and the pins horizontal to the ground.  Same den pressure.  It’s because there isn’t enough movement of gas molecules from a difference in high pressure to low pressure.   




Gravity explains nothing because it does not exist.
Denpressure explains it very well.

No.  Den pressure is a delusion that ignores fluid power demonstrates very well for a fluid to move an object there has to be a mass migration of molecules from a high pressure to a lower pressure  causing an unequal balance of net forces.


Den pressure doesn’t explain how a less dense atmosphere with fewer molecules providing less collisions is driving the pin down into a more dense atmosphere with more molecules providing more collisions thus pressure.

Again…


Gravity is the force that pulls the pin into higher pressure with more collisions.

We can see that a static atmosphere doesn’t actually push things down in this slow motion video of a dropped ball

It’s clear the ball is pulled down by the way the drag of the ball creates a wake and swirls as it falls.



We can see by the wake and the way the air swirls left by the dropped ball it’s pulled by gravity through the atmosphere.  The ball doesn’t fall because it’s pushed by atmosphere.

Same with the tilted pin art board.  There is no reason to believe a static atmosphere caused the pins to move from less dense atmosphere into more dense atmosphere providing more collisions as defined by fluid power. Every indication it was pulled by a force called gravity. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 08:25:56 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2023, 08:28:36 AM »
The balloon requires energy to stretch

It’s a gas bottle opened up to atmosphere (as in opening a valve) that has negligible change of shape for pressures up to 3000 lbs.


Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2023, 08:35:07 AM »

I don't see that

Right here. 



Right there to the right.  The “void” made in the wake of the ball as it drops down with no indication of a pushing down den pressure. 



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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2023, 08:40:06 AM »


If so, pressure is always upon everything because everything displaces its own dense mass of atmosphere, as I've said so many times.

No.  Pressure is the force of gas molecules hitting something.

You can have an empty gas bottle with nothing inside to displace but the gas in the bottle. 

You can fill the bottle with pure oxygen gas.

Increase the number of gas molecules inside the bottle, the more pressure inside the bottle. 

In the vacuum of space, there is effectively no pressure on an object because there is negligible gas providing essentially zero collisions with the object.

The same with a feather dropped in a tube with the atmosphere drawn out.

Take the same tube with the atmosphere drawn out, take it to absolute zero, there would be no pressure.  You can throw ten or twenty feathers in and do the same.  There are no gasses to displace, then there is no increase in pressure.



no they aren't free to move unless energy forces that move.

And the only way “pressure” can do that if it causes a movement of fluid from high pressure to low pressure.


The displacement of it.


That is the point.  In den pressure there is nothing in fluid power to make the pins move during the tilt.

There is no current flow. There is no net movement of gas molecules pushing in a down direction. 

The less dense atmosphere with less molecules proving less collisions and thus less pressure isn’t going to drive the pin down into more dense atmosphere providing more collisions with the pin.






There is always atmospheric changes from high to low pressure.

You love contradicting yourself.
Then why are the pins perfectly stationary holding their position when the pin board is vertical and the pins horizontal to the ground.  Same den pressure.  It’s because there isn’t enough movement of gas molecules from a difference in high pressure to low pressure.   




Gravity explains nothing because it does not exist.
Denpressure explains it very well.

No.  Den pressure is a delusion that ignores fluid power demonstrates very well for a fluid to move an object there has to be a mass migration of molecules from a high pressure to a lower pressure  causing an unequal balance of net forces.


Den pressure doesn’t explain how a less dense atmosphere with fewer molecules providing less collisions is driving the pin down into a more dense atmosphere with more molecules providing more collisions thus pressure.

Again…


Gravity is the force that pulls the pin into higher pressure with more collisions.

We can see that a static atmosphere doesn’t actually push things down in this slow motion video of a dropped ball

It’s clear the ball is pulled down by the way the drag of the ball creates a wake and swirls as it falls.



We can see by the wake and the way the air swirls left by the dropped ball it’s pulled by gravity through the atmosphere.  The ball doesn’t fall because it’s pushed by atmosphere.

Same with the tilted pin art board.  There is no reason to believe a static atmosphere caused the pins to move from less dense atmosphere into more dense atmosphere providing more collisions as defined by fluid power. Every indication it was pulled by a force called gravity.
I've already answered all of that I'm certainly not going to do it again.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2023, 08:46:14 AM »

I've already answered all of that I'm certainly not going to do it again.

And I pointed out that den pressure is a none working BS model that totally ignores and violates fluid power, gas laws, ignores there is no sign it pushed down the ball in my experiment.  And ever indication the ball is pulled down by gravity. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2023, 09:00:46 AM »
The balloon requires energy to stretch

It’s a gas bottle opened up to atmosphere (as in opening a valve) that has negligible change of shape for pressures up to 3000 lbs.
Ahhh ok, so let's deal with a gas bottle.

To fill the gas bottle you must compress the gas and by compressing the gas you restrict the movement of it inside the bottle, especially if it's stored in an environment that offers restricted molecular movement.

But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.


Anyway, your bottle itself still displaces the atmosphere, meaning it does expand to contract.
Now then your gases are under higher pressure than the atmosphere they will be expanded into which will compress that atmosphere as they expand out of that gas bottle but will also be squeezed upon which will cause temporary super compression which leads to ice and a fall or crushes down until dispersed which can then cause the crush back up as the atmosphere tries to even it out.



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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2023, 09:02:19 AM »

I've already answered all of that I'm certainly not going to do it again.

And I pointed out that den pressure is a none working BS model that totally ignores and violates fluid power, gas laws, ignores there is no sign it pushed down the ball in my experiment.  And ever indication the ball is pulled down by gravity.
Then if you think there's no sign then there's no need to go any further....right?

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2023, 10:17:08 AM »


To fill the gas bottle you must compress the gas and by compressing the gas you restrict the movement of it inside the bottle, especially if it's stored in an environment that offers restricted molecular movement.

You use a positive displacement pump like a piston pump that draws in atmospheric gasses that literally pushes the gas with enough force to push it in to the pressure tank or pressure bottle.

It literally builds pressure in the tank by putting more and more gas molecules in a fixed space.

Gas laws…


But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

But pressure in the tank will decrees a noticeable amount as the gases cool from being heated up from compression.  Unless the discharge of the compressor is cooled through a heat exchanger.

You can compress a gas because of the free space between the molecules.


You try to compress water with a positive displacement air compressor, you will break it because liquid water is not compressible.

Gases, free space to compress.  Liquid, not compressible in normal uses.

Why air hydros are dangerous and water hydros are safer.

You burst a pipe with an air test, it has more energy.  Takes forever to bleed off pressure.  A pipe bursts during a water test, it burps and the pressure is immediately at a safe pressure. 

Anyway, your bottle itself still displaces the atmosphere,

The bottle is steel.  It doesn’t change shape in any way that affects the process. It’s designed that way.  It’s an air tight barrier.


If temperature remains the same.  The bottle will have the same internal pressure if the outside atmosphere is 1 atmosphere or 5 atmospheres as long as the bottle holds its designed shape.


Gas laws…

meaning it does expand to contract.

The bottle is designed to not change shape.  And any changes in shape are negligible. Unless you take the bottle past it’s safe operating pressures and it physical deforms or ruptures.


Now then your gases are under higher pressure

The gas molecules compressed into the tank are at a higher pressure because there are more molecules per given space than outside the bottle.


Gas laws.




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sceptimatic

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Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2023, 10:38:20 AM »


To fill the gas bottle you must compress the gas and by compressing the gas you restrict the movement of it inside the bottle, especially if it's stored in an environment that offers restricted molecular movement.

You use a positive displacement pump like a piston pump that draws in atmospheric gasses that literally pushes the gas with enough force to push it in to the pressure tank or pressure bottle.

It literally builds pressure in the tank by putting more and more gas molecules in a fixed space.

Gas laws…
And?
I've already said this.




Quote from: DataOverFlow2022


But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.
No they aren't.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

But pressure in the tank will decrees a noticeable amount as the gases cool from being heated up from compression.
Yes, what's the issue?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

  Unless the discharge of the compressor is cooled through a heat exchanger.

You can compress a gas because of the free space between the molecules.
You can compress a gas because the layerings are broken down, as I mentioned before.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

You try to compress water with a positive displacement air compressor, you will break it because liquid water is not compressible.
It is compressible but it takes a lot more effort to do it.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Gases, free space to compress.  Liquid, not compressible in normal uses.
But it is compressible.
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Why air hydros are dangerous and water hydros are safer.

You burst a pipe with an air test, it has more energy.  Takes forever to bleed off pressure.  A pipe bursts during a water test, it burps and the pressure is immediately at a safe pressure. 
Yes because of denser molecular makeup. Less reactive decompressive force.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Anyway, your bottle itself still displaces the atmosphere,
The bottle is steel.  It doesn’t change shape in any way that affects the process. It’s designed that way.  It’s an air tight barrier.

A simple answer.
Does the bottle expand and contract?
If yes then that's now up to you to understand what's happening.
If no, explain why.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

If temperature remains the same.  The bottle will have the same internal pressure if the outside atmosphere is 1 atmosphere or 5 atmospheres as long as the bottle holds its designed shape.

Gas laws…

You know the external atmosphere is never uniform.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

The bottle is designed to not change shape.  And any changes in shape are negligible. Unless you take the bottle past it’s safe operating pressures and it physical deforms or ruptures.

Of course they may appear negligible but they can be far from it depending on atmospheric external molecular change.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Now then your gases are under higher pressure

The gas molecules compressed into the tank are at a higher pressure because there are more molecules per given space than outside the bottle.


Gas laws.
Yes, more molecules compressed against a barrier (bottle), which I've also said.

Re: Den Pressure vs Pin Art Board Please Explain
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2023, 12:07:59 PM »

I've already said this.


Really.  Cite and link to where you actually discussed the process of gas compression.



No they aren't.

Sorry.  Gas molecules stay a fixed size.  Name a property of atoms that allows them to change size versus a change in pressure from atmospheric pressure to 100 psig


Yes, what's the issue?

The pressure tank and molecules don’t change size. Reducing heat lessens the amount of kinetic energy the gas molecules have.  Reduces the speeds and frequency they hit the sides of the tank and each other as they zoom around the space in the tank. Reducing pressure. 



You can compress a gas because the layerings are broken down, as I mentioned before.

Nothing is broken down.  You just move gas molecules from the atmosphere and shove them in a tank.  As you put more gas molecules in a fixed space, pressure goes up.

Gas laws. 

It is compressible but it takes a lot more effort to do it.

It’s not from a lack of effort.  A positive displacement pump pumps until it breaks.  The issue is the liquid water cannot be compressed so the metal of the compress gives.  It literally breaks open the cylinder of the piston because the compressor cannot compress a liquid. 


Yes because of denser molecular makeup. Less reactive decompressive force.


You would literally get people killed at a power plant.

Air hydro bad.  Lots of energy from all the free space filled up and compressed.

Liquid hydro good.  Liquid not compressible.  Pressure bleeds off almost instantly.

A simple answer.
Does the bottle expand and contract?

No

You know the external atmosphere is never uniform.

Which has nothing to do with the internal pressure of the bottle not being effected by a range of outside pressures.

Of course they may appear negligible but they can be far from it depending on atmospheric external molecular change.

Which has nothing to do the inside pressure is not dependent and is independent of outside pressure.