Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 04, 2023, 04:10:31 AM

Weight means nothing unless it is measured on a scale.

Which is a lie.  From why a building needs a foundation. Why you can’t just keep adding floors/stories to an already built building with no changes in foundation, or no understanding the ground it is built on.  Why a duallly pickup truck matters for pulling heavy loads.  To why it matters if a heavy weight boxer goes against a flyweight boxer.  Weight classes in wrestling.  To why an under weight 5 foot person trying carry out an incapacitated muscular 6 foot person from a fire matters.  To why bridges have weight limits.  To why truck axles and trailers have weight limits. 


Den pressure delusion is just the point of stupid now. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 04, 2023, 04:10:31 AM

And by measuring the dense mass displacement of the atmosphere by any object's entire structure minus its natural volume against a resistant and movable foundation
such as a scale plate or hanging hook scale, then and only then can you get a reading you can call a weight reading of that dense mass structure.

If your model was true.  As the amount of atmosphere is evacuated from a chamber, the density or actual mass of atmosphere a hanging spring scale and weight displaces is less and less.   Then the amount the spring is elongated should reduced.  It doesn’t.  The spring stays the same amount of extended, or extends slightly more. 


As the atmosphere is reduced in your delusion, the force extending the spring and weight should reduce.  The spring should contract as the atmosphere is evacuated. As the “force” of your delusion is reduced.  It doesn’t.  The spring stays the same length extended, or even extends slightly more.

This proves there is a force separate from atmosphere we call gravity. It takes a force to extend the spring.  (It takes an unbalanced force to accelerate an object down.  The only force in your model is high pressure from below pushing objects up into less pressure above.)


It’s the same reason objects like airplanes and rockets have to consider center of gravity and the separate effects of atmosphere called center of pressure in their designs.

There is a separate force than “atmosphere”.  It’s gravity. 

I’m sorry sceptimatic that you are reduced to just stupid arguments and lies to keep your con going.

I'm not answering the same questions again. I'd suggest you actually look at my answers.
You don't need to agree. In fact, you can do what you like but simply typing out the same words to look for a different answer is not going to work for you.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 04, 2023, 01:02:46 AM

You just choose to argue against something you don't know about because peer pressure

Smoke machine asked you to document and record dropping a full liter bottle of coke, and half litter bottle of coke.  Compare the times it takes to drop from the same height.  Very easy to do in the age of video.

There's no need for you to wet wipe Smokey, I'm sure Smokey can argue his case if he wants to.
Also, have you tried this experiment?

 

But you refuse to sceptimatic.  Seems like you are the one that doesn’t want to seek the truth.

You have no clue what I do or don't do. All you can do is play guessing games and come to your own conclusions, which is fine for you but it still offers you nothing.

  You just want to hide in your word salad.  What is this hyperbole you base things of your own experiences is just utter bullish now?

I believe what I experience as proof.
I accept many things that offer a potential for truth.
I dismiss, until offered proof, anything that's told to be a truth with no willingness to show that proof.
The global model is offered with no proof except for silly vague film making.

  When you are not even willing to do the most basic experiments.

You have no clue what I do or don't do, as I've said but feel free to keep typing this gunk.

 You keep saying “we” offer nothing?

You don't offer anything provable yet want to argue about what I offer.
Massive appeals to authority do not offer you any truth, only a belief in the people who claim to be experts who tell you the stories, regardless of whether they are true or not.

  But you keep derailing this thread of “Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?” by offering no experiments.  None. 

You and your internet mates derailed it long ago so don't be whining about me derailing it.
Feel free to deck out and argue something else with others. You're not forced to argue with me.

It’s just stupid at this point.

And yet here you are engaging all of the time. Just take a break from this and concentrate on all the other stuff you partake in. Or can't you do that?

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 04, 2023, 06:55:19 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 04, 2023, 12:26:58 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 03, 2023, 02:12:11 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 03, 2023, 08:45:30 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 03, 2023, 08:42:56 AM

Jack is the wall.
Data is the top air.

According to you data makes jack move.

You're not being specific.
Be more specific.

how much more specific can i be?

DataF is the air above
I am the air below.
Jack is an object with dense-mass-displacing-atmosphere.


jack has displaced an amount of DataF.
DataF is crushing back on Jack with some energy.
I am below and crushing back on Jack with MORE energy than DataF, because i am below.


So
which way does jack move?
up or down?

If you crush Jack more than Data can crush Jack then Jack is crushed up by you and as long as your energy crush is greater than Data's energy crush then Jack will rise until there is little difference is resistance between both of you, leaving Jack floating.


If this isn't a good enough answer then be a bit more specific.

Cool
Of i-the-air-below, crush more than data-the-air-above, then jack goes up.

Always?
No matter what jack does?

If Jack wore a jet pack or flew a helicopter or used something to push through the atmosphere then things would change. But we are talking about just the dense masses as it is, right?

Quote from: Themightykabool

What about Smoke-the-2nd-object?
Sceppy the human is holding Smoke in one hand and Jack in the other hand
Sceppy lets go of both objects.
Data is crushing on both Smoke and Jack from above.
Kabool is crushing MORE from below.

One is observed to fall and the other floats up.
What measurable feature dictates this action (Jack vs Smoke; kabool vs data; jack-data vs smoke-data)?
Is Data crushing differently between javc vs smoke?
What?

The one falling is more dense mass than the one being crushed up, so Data would be displaced much more by the overall dense mass.
You would certainly feel the difference by holding both because one would be causing your arm to be crushed down and the otehr would simply be crushed up leaving your arm under no more stress than the arm itself.

in this discussion jack is an inanimate object.
he could be a bowling ball.
he could be a balloon filled with helium.
he just a thing that's not air.
he's a dense mass.
is the denseness lesser or more?
jack only knows he is an object.
smoke is also an object.
they don't know anything other than they can feel someone crushed on their sides/ tops/ bottoms.

kabool doesn't know what jack or smoke are because kabool is nonsentient air-from-below.
kabool only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

data doesn't know because dataF is nonsentient air-from-above
Data only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.




so by your 2nd comment

Smoke and Jack crush back against DataF.
but they don't crush against Kabool?
why do they only crush against Data?

Let's say Data is blind folded.
Data's two arms are equally strong to crush equally.
Jack and Smoke are below him and are equal in their dense mass.
Data's pushing on their heads, but he's blind folded and has no idea who's who.
Let's say Jack is fed a solid brick of dog shit and he swallows it with gusto.
Jack now has a dense mass of dog shit in his belly.
Data-the-air-above still pushing with all his strength.
Jack and Smoke's heads don't change shape so Data physically feels no difference.

But you're saying Data crushes more on Jack.
Data KNOWS who's head is jack based on the dense mass of dog shit in Jack's belly.




How does the air-above KNOW what's inside the object?

I'm not answering the same questions again.

That’s the thing.  You provide meaningless word salad.  You don’t answer anything.  You can’t even stay on topic of this thread.

 I'd suggest you actually look at my answers.

I suggest you address what is actually posted.


If a weight hanging from a hanging spring scale at 1 atmosphere stretches a spring 1 inch.  Then the same setup is in a chamber where the atmosphere is increasingly evacuated, reduced, made less dense.  How in your delusion does the spring have any choice but to greatly and obviously contract pulling the weight up.  In your delusion, atmosphere drives downward force. When atmosphere is removed from the chamber, the force in your delusion driving the weight and sprung down is reduced.  But in reality the spring stays the same length, or stretches out a bit more.   

There is obviously another force than atmosphere, and it’s called gravity.

You don't need to agree.

But as pointed out.  Your model doesn’t model reality.


You keep referring to crush.  As pointed out by different people, the atmosphere presses in on all sides of objects.  But there is greater pressure from below into less above in the upper atmosphere.  Why don’t things fall up in your delusion.


 There is no gravity and attractive forces in your delusion.  What overcomes gas molecules desire to dissipate from one another until pressure potential is zero.  There is no “upper” foundation.  There is no force to keep gas molecules from expanding up into the upper atmosphere to equalize pressure  in your delusion.  There is nothing in den pressure delusion to keep gas molecules bunched up at sea level. 

There is no evidence when a car is pushed up hill it sends a wave up the pressure column.  There is ever bit of evidence the atmosphere rolls around the car.











And there is no “push” that works it’s way up the pressure column. And especially back down. 

With the greatest atmospheric “push” from below with greater pressure to less pressure above.  Things should fall up in den pressure delusion. 

There is every indication there is another force separate from atmosphere that is labeled gravity.

Why airplanes and rockets have a center of gravity and a separate center of pressure that are two different forces acting on an object in flight.  And there must be a correct balance between the two for stable flight.  I’m sorry that kills den pressure delusion, and you can’t handle it. 




 

Smoke machine asked you to document and record dropping a full liter bottle of coke, and half litter bottle of coke.  Compare the times it takes to drop from the same height.  Very easy to do in the age of video.

 There's no need for you to wet wipe Smokey, I'm sure Smokey can argue his case if he wants to.
Also, have you tried this experiment?

You mean like what I already did in some form in college.

Where you can find the same type of experiments repeated over and over.





Where you just ignore reality.

And you keep derailing this thread and you can’t provide any evidence of you performing any type of experiment.  Much less one that proves den pressure delusion.

When I take the time to actually do things, and document them?

Like this ball gives every indication of being pulled down by gravity through atmosphere.  No indication it is pushed down by atmosphere. 

I actually do.

Repeating the same lie is not going to help you.

Again, if you actually answered you would have explained what force is making each layer of air push down more than the layer above is pushing it down.
Instead, you just claim that it is pushing down more with no explanation at all.
That means you are NOT answering.
Lying by saying you are wont magically make that non-answer into an answer.

And if you actually had an answer, you would provide it instead of claiming to have already answered.

Your behaviour clearly demonstrates that you have no answer and that you know you have no answer; and that if you tried to honestly answer you would have to admit your delusional BS doesn't work.

you wonder why you get bypassed..

I know why you repeatedly bypass me.
I make simple clear arguments which you are unable to refute.
Asking you simple questions which you are unable to answer without admitting your model is BS.
You can't handle that, so you instead choose to focus on other issues you can BS your way through to pretend to answer.

It is clearly not due to repetition, because you are happy to repeatedly answer questions about low pressure allegedly sucking. You are happy to repeatedly explain that a pump doesn't suck air out of a chamber, instead it allows the air inside the chamber to push out, by moving the air just outside it away.
You have no issue at all repeatedly explaining things when you actually have an answer.
But as soon as you reach something where you have no answer you instead resort to claiming to have already answered/explained and just insulting those who dare question you.

It also clearly isn't just due to it being me. As you happy to respond to other posts where you think you can BS an answer. It is just these simple questions/issues which demonstrate your model is BS which you cannot squirm your way out of that you suddenly switch to boldly proclaiming you have already answered/explained, because you know you cannot explain it. You know they kill your model.

You happily answer anything you think you can, while ignoring that which demonstrates you are wrong.

So cut the crap and either answer the simple questions/explain how your delusional BS works, or be honest for once and admit you can't and that your model doesn't work.

Once more:
What is causing each layer of air to push down with a greater force than the layer of air above pushing down?
What is this layer of air pushing against to be able to have this greater force (it can't be the layer above as that would require it to be the same force)?

And, how does an object displacing air result in a downwards force with the low pressure air above the object pushing and overcoming the higher pressure air below to push the object down? How does this displacement cause that downwards force?
And why does this downwards force only occur for objects denser than air? Where you can have 2 objects which displacement the same amount of air, but one goes down while the other goes up.

When you want to talk about weight you need to know what weight is.

Yes, and when you want to discuss it in English, you need to accept what the definition is.
Weight is the downwards force causing objects to fall.
It doesn't matter what BS you want to wrap that in, that is what weight is.

Ignoring that, and trying to replace it with some other BS will not change that, nor will it address the issues raised.

If weight does not exist, then objects do not fall.
Weight does not need to be measured to exist.

So it doesn't matter if you want to falsely claim it's the dense mass displacement of the atmosphere by any object's entirety of structure minus its natural volume; or if you want to accept reality and accept that it is from very real gravity.
It still exists without being measured.

I think the very same about you and people like yourself.

Which just demonstrates further wilful rejection of reality on your part.

Dense mass matters.
Weight means nothing unless it is measured on a scale.

Weight matters.
Dense mass means nothing unless it is measured.

Notice how you can just switch them around?

Again, your irrational hatred of weight because it destroys your fantasy doesn't make it cease to exist.
It doesn't matter what BS you want to claim causes weight, weight is the downwards force that causes objects to fall.
If this weight didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to measure it.
Measuring it does not magically make it exist.

If Jack wore a jet pack or flew a helicopter or used something to push through the atmosphere then things would change. But we are talking about just the dense masses as it is, right?

Yes, an object in the atmosphere, with no extra forces (like gravity) acting on it, and instead just the atmosphere pushing.
The higher pressure below the object, pushes it up.
ALWAYS.

You need an additional force to make the object go down.

I believe what I experience as proof.
I accept many things that offer a potential for truth.

Your delusional BS does not have any proof to support it, nor any potential to be truth given the massive flaws with it.

I dismiss, until offered proof, anything that's told to be a truth with no willingness to show that proof.
The global model is offered with no proof except for silly vague film making.

The RE model, and gravity are shown with mountains of evidence supporting it.
Evidence you simply dismiss as fake, or claim would also occur in your fantasy even though you are entirely incapable of explaining how your fantasy produces the same result.

Again, why not be honest?
You accept many things which align with your delusional fantasy, regardless of how much proof there is showing it is BS.
You reject anything that goes against your fantasy, regardless of how much proof there is showing it is real.

Read about a Chinese sub lost and supposedly ran out of oxygen in six  hours killing all onboard.  The news might be more rumor than fact.  But the events sparked a memory and a thought.

What happens to den pressure delusion atmosphere every time an oxygen candle is burnt?

😂😂😂😂😂

Oxygen Candles: Providing Emergency Air

https://minearc.com/oxygen-candles-providing-emergency-air/

Oxygen candles are used as a backup source of breathable air in an emergency. In addition, they supply an on-demand source of oxygen, utilised in aeroplanes, space stations, and other applications such as safe havens and refuge chambers.

A safe supply of oxygen is critical to support life. We are dependent on oxygen for survival; our bodies consume it to produce energy. If primary oxygen sources are scarce, these generators are on standby, ready to produce a finite amount of oxygen via a chemical reaction.

How Oxygen Candles Work
Oxygen is produced from a thermal, chemical reaction. Oxygen candles house a mixture of sodium chlorate, barium peroxide and iron powder; the oxygen-producing chemical is sodium chlorate.

This chemical reaction requires a significant amount of energy input, hence the need for iron powder. Iron powder burns at a higher temperature around 600°C (1112°F); as it heats the iron becomes very hot and breaks down the sodium chlorate. This reaction produces oxygen, sodium chloride (common salt) and iron oxide through a process known as thermal decomposition.

If rolling a bowling ball up hill causes the whole pressure column of the den pressure delusion to quake from the foundation to the dome and back again to crush down.  Think of the chaos burning an oxygen candle would cause.  Yet literal 1000’s of oxygen candles have been set off through the ages, and we haven’t been crushed by den pressure atmosphere? 

Quote from: Smoke Machine on October 03, 2023, 03:40:54 PM

Sceptimatic, I am arguing my points based on what I see with my own eyes.

No you aren't. You're arguing your points based on what you're told you see with your own eyes.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I get lost because I can't understand your denpressure, and literally nobody else seems to understand it either.

And yet you argue against it and tell me you know it and know it can't be realistic without having a clue about it. That's what's mildly amusing. You fell into the trap of wanting to argue for the sake of it because you see a posse taking on a lone wolf and think it's much easier to be part of that to give yourself some kind of credence.
This is how I see it and by all means, deny it but this is how you come across.
You're smart enough but not brave enough to take steps outside of that box. You're not alone.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Ofcourse circumnavigation alone doesn't prove the globe.

Of course it doesn't.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

But mapped circumnavigation of the continents combined with mapped distances to travel between continents, most certainly does prove the globe.

It certainly does not. You believe that because you simply adhere to whatever stories offer you that channel.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Use your brain and think on that a bit.

I have. I may end up wrong on many things but one thing I'm 1005 sure of is, that we do not live atop a spinning globe in a space vacuum.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Name one other person on this board or anywhere else in your life, who backs your denpressure model?
Because I haven't seen anybody.

I absolutely do not care who believes anything I say.
All I say to anyone is, try to understand it from my side even if you think I'm a lunatic idiot Billy no mates. It isn't about me, it's about people taking a step outside the box and having a go.
The issue with that is, that very few dare to do it because most people fear ridicule and would prefer the easy life of following mass opinion as fact regardless of what the minority alternates may be
An I don;t blame people for that.
Most peiople choose not to take their time to delve into anything and prefer to go about their life without those thoughts.
Those who choose to think alternately to toeing the party line will immediately be thrown into the conspiracy nutter pile by mass peer attacks which generally make many melt back into the bushes, Homer Simpson style. 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

  You seem to be on an island like Robinson Crusoe. Alone. Maybe you are like Tom Hanks character in Castaway and have named your coconut who you talk to, "denpressure"?

If that's how you think about me then who am I to crush that dream of yours.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I'm not actually a scientist, Sceptimatic, and clearly, neither are you.

We are all scientists.
Anything you do in life in terms of observing or finding out things in nature is all about being a scientist because Earth itself is the science.
The issue we have is, that some people tell stories to others that offer potential fiction to a science and it's all about finding the true nature of what the story pushes to gain any insight into any reality of it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You and I are both floundering around tossing scientific terms, and that's bullshit you haven't gleaned your scientific terms from books.

We re entitled to offer anything.
the key to it all is in the thought process and how those thought processes can marry anything up to be a potential reality.
You don't have to have a badge on a white coat to be a natural scientist.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You clearly haven't gleaned it from any practical experiments, so it has to be from books. I see right through your hypocrisy.

What I've gleaned or not is something you can only guess, which is fine.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

I don't know exactly what gravity is, but I sure as shit know what it is not.

You don't know what it is so you don't know what it's not.
You just choose to argue against something you don't know about because peer pressure ensures you follow that mindset and you naturally argue against anything alternate to it regardless of not knowing what it is you are championing.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It isn't anything close to your swiss cheese denpressure model.

In your mind.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

As for space - empty space, is space empty of gross physical matter. I've seen it through a microscope with my own eyes.

But you know what you see through a microscope is seeing past molecules to see what it is in that microscope. It's matter.
You can see a house through a windy street but you know the wind can knock you over yet you see the house reagrdless.
Isthe wind nothing?
Or is it a mass of molecules/matter?

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Space itself is fine matter - most likely the pre-cursor to all gross physical matter. Maybe its first matter and all gross physical matter as we know it, is secondary matter? Yeah, I read that somewhere, it isn't an original thought of mine.

Explain space as fine matter.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You take all your commands from your dopey subconscious, and never dare try to steer the ship yourself.

It doesn't matter where it's from. What matters is finding the reality or potential reality of the stories told.

Sceptimatic, you are corresponding here to be challenged and for denpressure to be challenged, and to challenge myself and others with our beliefs and understandings. There is no bullying or ganging up. Nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head to be here.

The potential reality you have proposed with your denpressure model has been examined. In order to go with it, one has to take massive leaps of faith and bury one's head in the sand like an ostrich to avoid seeing all the thousands of gaping holes.

In order to be a flat earther or alternate globe Earther such as yourself, you have to not be a scientist. You have to bury your head from all science. Every science you can think of, Sceptimatic. The slightest poofteenth of science you accept, you have to accept the entire globe earth model.

In order for me to live the life of a Flattish earther like you, for just one week, I'm telling ya, I won't be thinking about denpressure. Denpressure will snap me out of my dreamlike hypnotic state.  In fact, I will have to shelter myself from all science. That will not be an easy task.

Space as fine matter, is something science has detected to exist. A human such as you or I can detect space as fine matter with our senses as well, and no, despite the arguments from your flat earth priests, space is not a vacuum. Space surrounding our planet which you dont believe in, and space surrounding atoms which you don't believe in, does not vacuum like a hoover. We can detect space and move things through it, but we cannot manipulate space.

Are you picking up what Im putting down?

in this discussion jack is an inanimate object.
he could be a bowling ball.
he could be a balloon filled with helium.
he just a thing that's not air.
he's a dense mass.
is the denseness lesser or more?
jack only knows he is an object.
smoke is also an object.
they don't know anything other than they can feel someone crushed on their sides/ tops/ bottoms.

Everyone knows they are under a crush. The crush and severity of it depend on their dense mass that is being crushed against and by what they displace to be crushed against.

kabool doesn't know what jack or smoke are because kabool is nonsentient air-from-below.
kabool only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

data doesn't know because dataF is nonsentient air-from-above
Data only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

As above, everyone knows because it's all pressure no matter which way it's looked at or felt.

so by your 2nd comment

Smoke and Jack crush back against DataF.
but they don't crush against Kabool?
why do they only crush against Data?

Everyone crushes.
All atmosphere is crushed by any dense mass placed within it, which is always and is only dependent on where in the atmosphere as to the severity of the crush and the crush back.
But it's all crush on crush.

Let's say Data is blind folded.
Data's two arms are equally strong to crush equally.
Jack and Smoke are below him and are equal in their dense mass.
Data's pushing on their heads, but he's blind folded and has no idea who's who.

As above.

Let's say Jack is fed a solid brick of dog shit and he swallows it with gusto.

Thanks for the laugh.

Jack now has a dense mass of dog shit in his belly.

Even better. I'm chuckling like hell.

Data-the-air-above still pushing with all his strength.

Crushing.

Jack and Smoke's heads don't change shape so Data physically feels no difference.

Everyone feels a difference with any dense mass they are up against, whether that's simply atmosphere within itself in stacked layers or a dense mass placed within it to displace it more, minus the natural volume, which is key.

But you're saying Data crushes more on Jack.

Data KNOWS who's head is jack based on the dense mass of dog shit in Jack's belly.

How does the air-above KNOW what's inside the object?

It doesn't, it just acts on that object by what the object acts on it by displacing it.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 04, 2023, 04:17:02 AM

I actually do.

Repeating the same lie is not going to help you.

And typing this all the time is not going to help you.

Read about a Chinese sub lost and supposedly ran out of oxygen in six  hours killing all onboard.  The news might be more rumor than fact.  But the events sparked a memory and a thought.

What happens to den pressure atmosphere every time an oxygen candle is burnt?

😂😂😂😂😂

Can you remember when I mentioned molecular breakdown and can you also remember the gobstopper analogy and how it breaks down and peels or is added to depending on the pressure applied?

It helps you if you pay better attention to try and understand denpressure.
You clearly don't which is why you're trying to think of all kinds of stuff to argue without even knowing what you're arguing against, except to mention denpressure delusion which I find comical.
Put better effort in because you're wasting your own time here.

Oxygen Candles: Providing Emergency Air

https://minearc.com/oxygen-candles-providing-emergency-air/

Oxygen candles are used as a backup source of breathable air in an emergency. In addition, they supply an on-demand source of oxygen, utilised in aeroplanes, space stations, and other applications such as safe havens and refuge chambers.

A safe supply of oxygen is critical to support life. We are dependent on oxygen for survival; our bodies consume it to produce energy. If primary oxygen sources are scarce, these generators are on standby, ready to produce a finite amount of oxygen via a chemical reaction.

How Oxygen Candles Work
Oxygen is produced from a thermal, chemical reaction. Oxygen candles house a mixture of sodium chlorate, barium peroxide and iron powder; the oxygen-producing chemical is sodium chlorate.

This chemical reaction requires a significant amount of energy input, hence the need for iron powder. Iron powder burns at a higher temperature around 600°C (1112°F); as it heats the iron becomes very hot and breaks down the sodium chlorate. This reaction produces oxygen, sodium chloride (common salt) and iron oxide through a process known as thermal decomposition.

As above.

If rolling a bowling ball up hill causes the whole pressure column of the den pressure delusion to quake from the foundation to the dome and back again to crush down.  Think of the chaos burning an oxygen candle would cause.

There's always chaos but chaos is required for anything to work.
The only thing we do is have measured chaos.
Anything that displaces something will always create chaos.
Me pushing you is chaos and you pushing back is chaos.
Unless you want to use chaos as just something on a large scale for accidents and stuff.

  Yet literal 1000’s of oxygen candles have been set off through the ages, and we haven’t been crushed by den pressure atmosphere?

Yep and thousands of them will have dissipated into the atmosphere via all kinds of ways and means from breakdown and change.
For something to replenish it has to break down more than the replenishing breakdown of a denser mass can replenish it.
This happens with the oxygen candle.

Put your mind into it for once and try an understand it instead of trying a gotcha without knowing what it is.

Sceptimatic, you are corresponding here to be challenged and for denpressure to be challenged, and to challenge myself and others with our beliefs and understandings.

I'm getting challenged against my denpressure very badly by people who claim to know what it is they're challenging and they simply don't.
After all this time only a tiny minority have actually got it a little bit. None of you and the usual suspects have a clue what you're arguing about because your minds are so focused on the global model in its entirety to even dare to take a little trip down the rabbit hole or step outside the box you're in.
There's no challenge until one of you actually shows what it is you're challenging.
Saying you know denpressure means nothing.
You claim to know it and then say you can't grasp it, so what does that tell you?
You're not alone and I don't expect many to even try to understand it because most people get intimidated by the masses or feel silly attempting to try and decipher it.

There is no bullying or ganging up. Nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head to be here.

I'm not interested in any of you bullying or ganging up. It happens but none of you are strong enough to have any effect on me. You may do it to others but it's water off a duck's back to me.

 

The potential reality you have proposed with your denpressure model has been examined.

It hasn't even had a 10-second look going by the number of people attempting to decipher it, usually through attempted ridicule of something they know nothing about but claims they do. You included.

In order to go with it, one has to take massive leaps of faith and bury one's head in the sand like an ostrich to avoid seeing all the thousands of gaping holes.

The holes you see are the ones you bury your head to make by not understanding anything of it, and that's clear.

 

In order to be a flat earther or alternate globe Earther such as yourself, you have to not be a scientist.

No, you actually have to be a scientist because the entirety of Earth is the science to be examined and that comes from being a scientist.
The major issue with science comes from people telling stories of fiction and basically battering it into the minds of the gullible to be indoctrinated as factual but cleverly hidden behind the word, theory.

You have to bury your head from all science.
Every science you can think of, Sceptimatic.

The only people burying their heads from science are those who believe we live on a spinning globe with a big universe full of fiery suns and planets...etc.

The slightest poofteenth of science you accept, you have to accept the entire globe earth model.

Any science I accept will have absolutely no connection with the fictional global model we've been massively indoctrinated into.

 

In order for me to live the life of a Flattish earther like you, for just one week, I'm telling ya, I won't be thinking about denpressure.

You mind is firmly made up with the global model you accept without hesitation so I don't expect you to think of anything outside of that box, other than to pretend every now and again, just to make things interesting for yourself because it must be tedious just parroting the global model from the all go no stop mainstream storytellers you appeal to as your absolute authority.

Denpressure will snap me out of my dreamlike hypnotic state.  In fact, I will have to shelter myself from all science. That will not be an easy task.

You're already sheltering from a lot of science by your unconditional belief in the global model and all the trimmings that go with that gunk.
The hardest thing for you to do is to step outside of the box and feel naked in front of your peers who will ridicule you back into it.
That's the struggle you have.

 

Space as fine matter, is something science has detected to exist.

Science has detected nothing of the sort.
Storytellers have made up a load of gunk and basically bamboozled you and many others into believing it all because they know you have zero chance of arguing against it due to having no proof and never ever are going to.
You may as well be told there's a little man sitting on your shoulder who is the size of half an atom but has the powers to make you do the so-called right things because so-called scientists told you so.
The funny thing about so-called scientists who come out with this fine matter baloney is, that they likely believe it themselves just as people who believe in ghosts and gods and whatnot.

A human such as you or I can detect space as fine matter with our senses as well, and no, despite the arguments from your flat earth priests, space is not a vacuum.

Yes we can detect matter in the atmosphere. With every movement, we can feel resistance to matter. In Earth that is.
As for space not being a vacuum. I always said vacuums do not exist but they get used a lot in the stories.

Space surrounding our planet which you dont believe in, and space surrounding atoms which you don't believe in, does not vacuum like a hoover.

A hoover does not vacuum. It creates a reaction by pushing away high pressure and allowing lower pressure to be compressed and a reactionary decompression. That's all a hoover is.

We can detect space and move things through it, but we cannot manipulate space.

You can manipulate the atmosphere. You can't manipulate the space you believe in because it doesn't exist.

Are you picking up what Im putting down?

Yep and cleaning up by throwing it into the bin where it belongs.

And typing this all the time is not going to help you.

I'm not the one that needs help.
I'm not the one repeatedly lying, contradicting themselves and dodging trivial questions and issues with your delusional fantasy.
That would be you.
You are the one who needs help.
Help to make a model which has any chance of working.

Yet again, you have no explanation for how each layer of air is pushing down more than the layer above; and doing so would be impossible in your model.
Yet again, you have no explanation for why whatever is making the air push down more (which clearly is NOT the air around it) cannot also be directly acting on mass to make it go down, meaning the atmosphere is not needed.
Yet again, you have no explanation for how the object displacing the atmosphere magically causes the low pressure air above the object to push down and overcome the higher pressure air below to push the object down; and why this magically only happens for objects more dense than the air.

Because you can't explain this simple issues, you deflect at all costs.

Everyone knows they are under a crush.

An inwards crush, not a downwards one.
One that is balanced by the pressure from inside pushing out.
They also know the atmosphere isn't crushing them down.

As above

As above is just deflection from your inability to explain and yet another contradiction from you.
The high pressure force wins, and pushes up.
The air is not sentient. Stop pretending it is.

It helps you if you pay better attention to try and understand denpressure.

It helps if you pay better attention to try to understand the issues with denpressure, rather than just ignoring it all to pretend your fantasy works.
You clearly don't which is why you're trying to think of all kinds of stuff to argue without even knowing what you're arguing against, except to mention denpressure delusion which I find pathetic.
Put better effort in because you're wasting your own time here.

Put your mind into it for once and try an understand it instead of trying a gotcha without knowing what it is.

Follow your own advice.

I'm getting challenged against my denpressure very badly by people who claim to know what it is they're challenging and they simply don't.

Yet apparently, one challenges you so much, you need to flee from their questions at all costs.

None of you and the usual suspects have a clue what you're arguing about

I know you need to keep telling yourself that to pretend your fantasy is in tact, but it is just wilful rejection of reality.
If I didn't have a clue, you would have easily answered my questions and addressed the issues raised.
The fact you desperately flee, while repeatedly answering the same questions from others demonstrates I likely do understand, and you know it.

Saying you know denpressure means nothing.

Saying we don't means nothing.
What you need to do is show the misunderstanding; show what aspect we don't grasp and how this addresses the issue raised.
But of course, you can't. So you resort to lies claiming we don't know and that you have already explained.

The holes you see are the ones you bury your head to make by not understanding anything of it, and that's clear.

No, the holes we see are the ones which destroy your fantasy.
And that is clear from how much you need to flee from them rather than address them.

No, you actually have to be a scientist because the entirety of Earth is the science to be examined and that comes from being a scientist.

When your belief is based upon wilful rejection of reality, like your beliefs, then you CANNOT be a scientist.
Again, if you actually were a scientist, you would understand how air pressure works and understand that your model cannot explain what is observed. You would understand your model is wrong.

The major issue with science comes from people telling stories of fiction and basically battering it into the minds of the gullible

You mean like how you keep pedalling your story?

The only people burying their heads from science are those who believe we live on a spinning globe with a big universe full of fiery suns and planets...etc.

No, the people burying their heads are those which mock that.
All the evidence (which shows one way or another) shows we are living on a spinning globe in a incredibly large universe, etc.
Your wilful rejection of that evidence shows you are not a scientist.

Any science I accept will have absolutely no connection with the fictional global model we've been massively indoctrinated into.

Which again shows you are not scientific at all.
You have already made your conclusions, that Earth is not a globe, etc. And so you will reject any evidence that shows that to be the case.
That is not being scientific.
That is closer to being religious.

You're already sheltering from a lot of science by your unconditional belief in the global model and all the trimmings that go with that gunk.

And what science would that be?
You are yet to provide ANYTHING which challenges the RE model.

As for space not being a vacuum. I always said vacuums do not exist but they get used a lot in the stories.

Which again is just your dishonest BS.
You want to pretend a vacuum must be a perfect vacuum so you can pretend space must be a perfect vacuum so you can pretend space doesn't exist.
In reality, a vacuum does not need to be perfect, and the vacuum of space is not perfect.
If you were honest you would either accept the common meaning of the word; or say that you don't like that meaning and only want a vacuum to refer to a perfect vacuum, and say that space is not a vacuum instead it is just an extreme low pressure system.

molecular breakdown

Where you provided no proof or experiment that shows oxygen ever breakdown to helium.  Where I worked with molecular sieves and oxygen over a range of pressure.  From greater to to less than atmospheric pressure.  Processes that need to run at certain purifies/percentages of oxygen.

There is no evidence oxygen stays anything other than oxygen at all pressures.  No evidence of your delusional molecular breakdown.

And your word salad has nothing to with I move a relatively small bowling ball compared to the whole atmosphere of earth the slightest movement uphill it sends your whole delusion to instantly quake up the entire pressure column to the dome and back down to crush down.  Why wouldn’t the new cloud of oxygen from the burning oxygen candle do the same. If less and less atmospheric pressure with altitude in your delusion with no gravity and forces of attraction can keep the greater pressure of atmosphere bunched up at sea level, how would the new cloud of oxygen ever rise up to breakdown. 

With every oxygen candle set off in your delusion pressure at sea level should get greater and greater. 

Everyone knows they are under a crush.

There is no evidence atmosphere crushes down to push things down.

Sorry…

Like this ball gives every indication of being pulled down by gravity through atmosphere.  No indication it is pushed down by atmosphere. 

I'm getting challenged

No.  It’s being pointed out how den pressure delusion fails.

No gravity forces of attraction in your delusion.  Only the lower pressure of the upper atmosphere keeping the higher pressure of the lower atmosphere pushed down.

Back to the oxygen candle.  They’re usually about 12 inches tall.  Three or four inches in diameter.  I can place one easily in the bottom of an empty 55 gallon drum.  I can even put a baffle plate above the candle in the bottom so the discharge goes sideways instead of straight up.  Now.  When the candle burns in your delusion where low pressure above traps higher pressure below it.  What choice does the new oxygen cloud have but to bunch up inside the bottom of the drum, raising its pressure.  The newly freed oxygen molecules would just stay bunched up in the drum with no hope of escaping out the top in your delusion. 

Quote from: Themightykabool on October 04, 2023, 10:00:07 AM

in this discussion jack is an inanimate object.
he could be a bowling ball.
he could be a balloon filled with helium.
he just a thing that's not air.
he's a dense mass.
is the denseness lesser or more?
jack only knows he is an object.
smoke is also an object.
they don't know anything other than they can feel someone crushed on their sides/ tops/ bottoms.

Everyone knows they are under a crush. The crush and severity of it depend on their dense mass that is being crushed against and by what they displace to be crushed against.

Quote from: Themightykabool

kabool doesn't know what jack or smoke are because kabool is nonsentient air-from-below.
kabool only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

data doesn't know because dataF is nonsentient air-from-above
Data only knows to crush with as much ability as he has.

As above, everyone knows because it's all pressure no matter which way it's looked at or felt.

Quote from: Themightykabool

so by your 2nd comment

Smoke and Jack crush back against DataF.
but they don't crush against Kabool?
why do they only crush against Data?

Everyone crushes.
All atmosphere is crushed by any dense mass placed within it, which is always and is only dependent on where in the atmosphere as to the severity of the crush and the crush back.
But it's all crush on crush.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Let's say Data is blind folded.
Data's two arms are equally strong to crush equally.
Jack and Smoke are below him and are equal in their dense mass.
Data's pushing on their heads, but he's blind folded and has no idea who's who.

As above.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Let's say Jack is fed a solid brick of dog shit and he swallows it with gusto.

Thanks for the laugh.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Jack now has a dense mass of dog shit in his belly.

Even better. I'm chuckling like hell.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Data-the-air-above still pushing with all his strength.

Crushing.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Jack and Smoke's heads don't change shape so Data physically feels no difference.

Everyone feels a difference with any dense mass they are up against, whether that's simply atmosphere within itself in stacked layers or a dense mass placed within it to displace it more, minus the natural volume, which is key.

Quote from: Themightykabool

But you're saying Data crushes more on Jack.

Quote from: Themightykabool

Data KNOWS who's head is jack based on the dense mass of dog shit in Jack's belly.

Quote from: Themightykabool

How does the air-above KNOW what's inside the object?

It doesn't, it just acts on that object by what the object acts on it by displacing it.

Notice you didnt actually say anything here.

The shitbrick inside jack didnt alter his outward appearance.
DataFtheairabove is still oushing the same as he was before on jacks head and pushing equally on smokes head.

Nothing cause any change in DataF.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on October 06, 2023, 02:59:02 PM

Sceptimatic, you are corresponding here to be challenged and for denpressure to be challenged, and to challenge myself and others with our beliefs and understandings.

I'm getting challenged against my denpressure very badly by people who claim to know what it is they're challenging and they simply don't.
After all this time only a tiny minority have actually got it a little bit. None of you and the usual suspects have a clue what you're arguing about because your minds are so focused on the global model in its entirety to even dare to take a little trip down the rabbit hole or step outside the box you're in.
There's no challenge until one of you actually shows what it is you're challenging.
Saying you know denpressure means nothing.
You claim to know it and then say you can't grasp it, so what does that tell you?
You're not alone and I don't expect many to even try to understand it because most people get intimidated by the masses or feel silly attempting to try and decipher it.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

There is no bullying or ganging up. Nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head to be here.

I'm not interested in any of you bullying or ganging up. It happens but none of you are strong enough to have any effect on me. You may do it to others but it's water off a duck's back to me.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

The potential reality you have proposed with your denpressure model has been examined.

It hasn't even had a 10-second look going by the number of people attempting to decipher it, usually through attempted ridicule of something they know nothing about but claims they do. You included.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

In order to go with it, one has to take massive leaps of faith and bury one's head in the sand like an ostrich to avoid seeing all the thousands of gaping holes.

The holes you see are the ones you bury your head to make by not understanding anything of it, and that's clear.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

In order to be a flat earther or alternate globe Earther such as yourself, you have to not be a scientist.

No, you actually have to be a scientist because the entirety of Earth is the science to be examined and that comes from being a scientist.
The major issue with science comes from people telling stories of fiction and basically battering it into the minds of the gullible to be indoctrinated as factual but cleverly hidden behind the word, theory.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You have to bury your head from all science.
Every science you can think of, Sceptimatic.

The only people burying their heads from science are those who believe we live on a spinning globe with a big universe full of fiery suns and planets...etc.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

The slightest poofteenth of science you accept, you have to accept the entire globe earth model.

Any science I accept will have absolutely no connection with the fictional global model we've been massively indoctrinated into.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

In order for me to live the life of a Flattish earther like you, for just one week, I'm telling ya, I won't be thinking about denpressure.

You mind is firmly made up with the global model you accept without hesitation so I don't expect you to think of anything outside of that box, other than to pretend every now and again, just to make things interesting for yourself because it must be tedious just parroting the global model from the all go no stop mainstream storytellers you appeal to as your absolute authority.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Denpressure will snap me out of my dreamlike hypnotic state.  In fact, I will have to shelter myself from all science. That will not be an easy task.

You're already sheltering from a lot of science by your unconditional belief in the global model and all the trimmings that go with that gunk.
The hardest thing for you to do is to step outside of the box and feel naked in front of your peers who will ridicule you back into it.
That's the struggle you have.

 

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Space as fine matter, is something science has detected to exist.

Science has detected nothing of the sort.
Storytellers have made up a load of gunk and basically bamboozled you and many others into believing it all because they know you have zero chance of arguing against it due to having no proof and never ever are going to.
You may as well be told there's a little man sitting on your shoulder who is the size of half an atom but has the powers to make you do the so-called right things because so-called scientists told you so.
The funny thing about so-called scientists who come out with this fine matter baloney is, that they likely believe it themselves just as people who believe in ghosts and gods and whatnot.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

A human such as you or I can detect space as fine matter with our senses as well, and no, despite the arguments from your flat earth priests, space is not a vacuum.

Yes we can detect matter in the atmosphere. With every movement, we can feel resistance to matter. In Earth that is.
As for space not being a vacuum. I always said vacuums do not exist but they get used a lot in the stories.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Space surrounding our planet which you dont believe in, and space surrounding atoms which you don't believe in, does not vacuum like a hoover.

A hoover does not vacuum. It creates a reaction by pushing away high pressure and allowing lower pressure to be compressed and a reactionary decompression. That's all a hoover is.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

We can detect space and move things through it, but we cannot manipulate space.

You can manipulate the atmosphere. You can't manipulate the space you believe in because it doesn't exist.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Are you picking up what Im putting down?

Yep and cleaning up by throwing it into the bin where it belongs.

We are going around in circles, just as I predicted 50 or so pages ago. It's like a culture clash happening here, or a massive language barrier even though we all seem to be speaking English.

Superficially, yes, I did seem to grasp what your denpressure was meant to be. But with the slightest bit of science application, denpressure doesn't work. If you took the time to drop a full mountain dew bottle and half filled mountain dew bottle from the same great height, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails. If you took the time to see how easily you can contain air pressure in the same bottle of mountain dew, but cannot shield this force you call denpressure and we call gravity, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails.

Taking on Einstein and Newton would be an onerous task for anybody, Sceptimatic. There is no need to take any of this personally. You offered up your model for examination and it has been repeatedly explained why it falters. Offer it up in another forum and see if it garners any different results. Being the scientist you regard yourself as, that would be the scientific method, would it not?

Regarding storytellers, there are two types which you need to try and get your head around. Type one is true storytellers such as the stories produced from the annals of science. Type two is bullshit storytellers such as the stories produced from the anals of ignorance and fear.

The latter is what you appeal to, Sceptimatic.

Who am I to question what appeals to you? You've lived your best flat earth life for many years, so obviously it's working for you and I'm just another naysayer or idiot on your path.

Sceptimatic, how could you provide any constructive input into how to build an anti-gravity device if we can't even agree what gravity is? Yes, I used the word gravity, but was I supposed to say? How you can help build an anti-denpressure device? Your bottle of mountain dew is already an anti denpressure device.

With every oxygen candle set off in your delusion pressure at sea level should get greater and greater.

Only in your mind because you have no clue about denpressure and what I've explained, so this is where you are.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 07, 2023, 06:51:57 AM

Everyone knows they are under a crush.

There is no evidence atmosphere crushes down to push things down.

Sorry…

Like this ball gives every indication of being pulled down by gravity through atmosphere.  No indication it is pushed down by atmosphere. 

And yet this glass of water can be held up by a piece of card.



Where's your gravity now?
This is atmospheric resistance at work, stopping the water because there's very little effort to crush the water down to overcome the resistance below.
This is denpressure at work, not gravity fiction.

We are going around in circles, just as I predicted 50 or so pages ago.

And you'll continue to do so the longer you fail to understand anything about denpressure but carry on trying to argue against it. It's fairly amusing watching you do this.
It's called getting a firm grip on the coat tails of the usual suspects to add one extra in the mass argument as if it offers you some leverage.
It doesn't.

 It's like a culture clash happening here, or a massive language barrier even though we all seem to be speaking English.

The only barrier is the one you keep hiding behind. I call it a shield.

Superficially, yes, I did seem to grasp what your denpressure was meant to be.

You grasped none of it and it's as plain as anything.

 But with the slightest bit of science application, denpressure doesn't work.

You have no clue about denpressure. You just pretend you do for a while then admit you don't. It honestly is amusing.

 If you took the time to drop a full mountain dew bottle and half filled mountain dew bottle from the same great height, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails.

It would show denpressure to be working as I said.
The only argument from your side is in the dense mass make-up of the bottles that can overcome below resistance with the aid of above displacement.
This is why short heights offer you what appears to be an equal drop, which even that isn't true but it's hard to mark the minute difference.

If you took the time to see how easily you can contain air pressure in the same bottle of mountain dew, but cannot shield this force you call denpressure and we call gravity, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails.

Let's make this quite clear, so put your mind to this and really think about it.
You want to argue about half a bottle of Mountain Dew against a full bottle.
So tell me what would happen if the bottle was only a thimble full of Mountain Dew against a full bottle of Mountain Dew.
Would they fall at the same rate or would atmospheric resistance overcome one against the other more.?

You know the answer to it but let's see how you get out of it.

Now then, if you want to argue this and say "Oh yeah but that's because the bottle is lighter", then think about the whole of the other against a full bottle.
Two thimbles full?
Three. Four. Five.?
When does it become equal in your eyes and why?

Taking on Einstein and Newton would be an onerous task for anybody, Sceptimatic.

Those people are in the past and the stories about them are based on a lot of unprovable hypotheticals cast off as truths but also hidden behind the words "scientific theories."
It means nothing much to me because I don't take much of anything from them.

There is no need to take any of this personally.

We're on a forum, I'm not taking anything personally. Maybe you're just projecting here.
Most likely to be fair.

 You offered up your model for examination and it has been repeatedly explained why it falters.

It's never been shown to falter.
Many words have been typed but nothing has stopped denpressure.

 Offer it up in another forum and see if it garners any different results. Being the scientist you regard yourself as, that would be the scientific method, would it not?

People are generally stuck in their ways in terms of mass adherence to whatever subjects so it doesn't matter what I offer. People have to understand it before they can dismiss it legitimately.
Of course, anyone can dismiss it out of mind but doing that without having a clue is basically worthless as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding storytellers, there are two types which you need to try and get your head around. Type one is true storytellers such as the stories produced from the annals of science.

And those stories should be able to be backed to show anyone those truths, otherwise, they are theories or hypotheticals or simply fiction.

 Type two is bullshit storytellers such as the stories produced from the anals of ignorance and fear.

And this is where the sorting of the wheat from the chaff comes to the forefront where the arguments are ongoing as to which stories have been put on the fact shelf without proof and which stories have been put on the fiction shelf that may actually offer a better reality to the other stories.

The latter is what you appeal to, Sceptimatic.

I'd say this covers your mindset to be fair.

Who am I to question what appeals to you?

A handle on a forum.

 You've lived your best flat earth life for many years, so obviously it's working for you and I'm just another naysayer or idiot on your path.

That's your thoughts.

Sceptimatic, how could you provide any constructive input into how to build an anti-gravity device if we can't even agree what gravity is?

I can't because gravity does not exist. It's fiction, so it's basically an impossible task, just as it would be for anyone.
It can be fine for a fictional movie or something, but real life..... Nahhhhh.

 Yes, I used the word gravity, but was I supposed to say? How you can help build an anti-denpressure device?

Denpressue is. There's no anti-anything with denpressure.

Your bottle of mountain dew is already an anti denpressure device.

It's denpressure at work as it is with everything about Earth.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on October 08, 2023, 03:32:59 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 07, 2023, 06:51:57 AM

Everyone knows they are under a crush.

There is no evidence atmosphere crushes down to push things down.

Sorry…

Like this ball gives every indication of being pulled down by gravity through atmosphere.  No indication it is pushed down by atmosphere. 

And yet this glass of water can be held up by a piece of card.



Where's your gravity now?
This is atmospheric resistance at work, stopping the water because there's very little effort to crush the water down to overcome the resistance below.
This is denpressure at work, not gravity fiction.

Wow.  Make a slight vacuum and it sticks.  Where is your crush down with expanding molecules to take up all space?  Or is it like what most have posted.  Its crush inward.  Not downward.

You didn’t help yourself.  So things by pressure should fall up? 

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on October 08, 2023, 03:28:28 AM

With every oxygen candle set off in your delusion pressure at sea level should get greater and greater.

Only in your mind because you have no clue about denpressure and what I've explained, so this is where you are.

That in no way addresses…

Back to the oxygen candle.  They’re usually about 12 inches tall.  Three or four inches in diameter.  I can place one easily in the bottom of an empty 55 gallon drum.  I can even put a baffle plate above the candle in the bottom so the discharge goes sideways instead of straight up.  Now.  When the candle burns in your delusion where low pressure above traps higher pressure below it.  What choice does the new oxygen cloud have but to bunch up inside the bottom of the drum, raising its pressure.  The newly freed oxygen molecules would just stay bunched up in the drum with no hope of escaping out the top in your delusion.


How does den pressure delusion know what high pressure low pressure is going to keep down.  And what low pressure is going to let what high pressure equalize to low pressure.
[/quote]

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 If you took the time to drop a full mountain dew bottle and half filled mountain dew bottle from the same great height, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails.

It would show denpressure to be working as I said.
The only argument from your side is in the dense mass make-up of the bottles that can overcome below resistance with the aid of above displacement.
This is why short heights offer you what appears to be an equal drop, which even that isn't true but it's hard to mark the minute difference.

Then why not do it and document it.


The argument is why the more full bottle doesn’t from the start accelerate at a faster rate.

Like, why isn’t this metal ball twenty times more dense than the ping pong ball accelerating 20 times faster from the start.



Why are they falling at the same rate.


Why is this bowling ball and feather falling at the same rate?

Bowling ball and feathers falling in vacuum



Basket ball and a 5kg ball falling at the same rate.

Misconceptions About Falling Objects

And you'll continue to do so the longer you fail to understand anything about denpressure but carry on trying to argue against it.

Again, if you truly think people don't understand, how do you expect them to ever understand when you refuse to explain?
If people don't understand, then why do you need to flee from simple questions which demonstrates your model is BS?

The only barrier is the one you keep hiding behind.

Do you mean language, where you just lie about what words mean; or do you mean trying to have a model which matches reality and is able to explain and predict what will occur, which your delusional BS clearly can't?

It would show denpressure to be working as I said.

As you are yet to explain how the low pressure air above an object overcomes the higher pressure air below the object to push it down, it does not demonstrate your fantasy working.

The only argument from your side is in the dense mass make-up of the bottles that can overcome below resistance with the aid of above displacement.

Notice how again you appeal to the dense mass of the bottle, as if there is a force directly acting on the mass of the bottle, rather than the air.
So you again appeal to gravity, because your delusional BS can't work.

This is why short heights offer you what appears to be an equal drop, which even that isn't true but it's hard to mark the minute difference.

No, we use that to show that in cases where the effects of the air are negligible, objects accelerate at the same rate.
You need to ignore this at all costs because it shows your model is garbage.

So tell me what would happen if the bottle was only a thimble full of Mountain Dew against a full bottle of Mountain Dew.
Would they fall at the same rate or would atmospheric resistance overcome one against the other more.?

Both would start falling at the same rate, but the mostly empty one would be significantly affected by air resistance much sooner.
You know this. And you want to ignore the start, because it destroys your BS.

Why should they initially accelerate the same?

Those people are in the past and the stories about them are based on a lot of unprovable hypotheticals cast off as truths but also hidden behind the words "scientific theories."

No. They are based upon mountains of evidence, experiments demonstrating it, and devices designed based upon those principles.
It is proven beyond any sane doubt; and all you can do is dismiss it all and claim your delusional BS does the same even though you can't explain how it does at all.

It's never been shown to falter.

Yes it has, repeatedly. With you needing to flee from it each time, and just come up with this crap.
Again, you cannot explain what magical force is causing each layer of air to push down more than the layer above. You cannot explain what this layer of air is pushing off to do this.
You cannot explain why this pressure is proportional to mass.
You cannot explain why whatever that is is not also causing objects to fall.
You cannot explain how the low pressure air above an object magically overcomes the greater pressure below to push an object down, and why it magically only does this for an object more dense than air while an object less dense than air gets pushed up. Even though in your model, density is meaningless as it is just a measure of pore size, so a piece of steel which loads of holes in the structure would be deemed less dense than a piece of steel without said holes (which also raises the issue of how you could ever have anything less dense than air, as air should be filling those voids).

And for bonus ones which are well beyond your model as you can't even get the basics, why does this downwards force vary over Earth?
Why does reducing air pressure reduce the effects of the atmosphere in the form of resistance to motion through it, but not the downwards force, and instead the downwards force on a scale is observed to increase?
And why taking an air tight container, and removing some air from it so it is displacing more air, causes it to weigh less?

Your denpressure is DOA.
It has no chance of working until you address those flaws.

You have typed out many words to pretend there are no flaws, but you refuse to address these flaws.
You just ignore them, claim to have already answered, and insult those who dare bring them up.

Conversely, if we discard your delusional BS, and instead have a downwards force proportional to mass (i.e. gravity), then it all works.
That force making each layer of air push down more than the layer above is this downwards force.
As it is proportional to mass, this makes the pressure gradient proportional to density.
This pressure gradient will then exert an upwards force on all objects immersed in it, equal to the weight of fluid displaced. This also means displacing fluid causes an upwards force, so an air tight container with more air removed from inside will displace more air than one full of air. And it also means that if you remove the air from a chamber to make it a lower pressure, it will appear to weigh more as that pressure gradient has been reduced due to the lower density of air and lower weight of air displaced by the object.

But these objects still have a force proportional to mass pushing down. If that force is greater than the upwards force (which require them to be more dense) it falls. If it is less (which requires it to be less dense) then it rises.
And it varies over Earth due to the shape and motion of Earth.

You cannot show any fault with this explanation.
You just reject it because it doesn't fit your fantasy.

People are generally stuck in their ways in terms of mass adherence to whatever subjects so it doesn't matter what I offer

No, we are stuck in our ways of wanting a model which works to explain reality and makes sense.
Your BS does not, so we reject it until you can address the flaws.

So it does matter what you offer.
If you just offer the same BS of lying by claiming that you have addressed issues or that there are no issues, if you just offer the same insults and claims that your nonsense works; then all the problems remain and your delusional BS is rejected.
If instead, you do the impossible and explain how your model works to produce the results that are observed, we (or at least I) will accept it as a plausible model.
But as above, you are yet to even attempt that for the most basic thing.
The closest you get is implicitly appealing to gravity, highlighting the massive flaw in your model.

And this is where the sorting of the wheat from the chaff comes to the forefront where the arguments are ongoing as to which stories have been put on the fact shelf without proof and which stories have been put on the fiction shelf that may actually offer a better reality to the other stories.

You mean like how you have placed your delusional BS on the fact shelf with no proof at all, and placed gravity on the fiction shelf even though it explains reality vastly better than your nonsense?

Compared to science, that has placed gravity on the quite likely to be true shelf, based upon the mountains of evidence supporting it, proven it beyond any reasonable doubt, and placed your delusional BS on the fiction shelf, because it has no chance of explaining reality and has no advantages over the alternatives.

And yet this glass of water can be held up by a piece of card.

Yes, the pressure differential from the air pressure below being much greater than the tiny pressure of the partial vacuum inside at the top of the glass pushes up; with a force great enough to overcome the force of gravity pushing it down.

No one is claiming gravity is all powerful magic. Other forces can (and often do) overcome gravity.

If it was just the air, why is the card needed in the first place?
If it was just the air, why does piercing a tiny hole in the top allow the water to fall out of the glass?

In your fantasy, the air pressure being greater below should push everything up.

Again, this just further demonstrates the problem with your claim.

Air pressure pushes from high pressure to low pressure.
For the atmosphere, this is upwards.

Remember posting about things under a shelf?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Why can’t I sit something on the underside of a shelf like sitting on top of it?

You can.
It comes down to the dense mass of any object against the resistance under it.
Go and get a helium balloon and stick that under a shelf and let me know if it sits under it.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

  There is more resistance below, so why can’t I use den pressure to make something to fall rise up to “sit” on the underside of the shelf.

You can.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

 Why would an object placed against the underside of the shelf fall away from it.

More dense mass displacement of atmosphere creating a crush back against less resistance to it.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

 I sat it on something other than nothing.  If there are no forces of attraction, why fall away from the underside of the shelf?  Why move at all?

There can never be forces of attraction, only forces of compression and decompression.

sceptimatic, if there is no vacuum, no space between molecules, molecules can expand infinitely to take up all space in your delusion, why is the cardboard and water more dense than air falling up in your delusion with high pressure below into less resistance and pressure above? With only compression or decompression?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on October 08, 2023, 02:50:14 PM

We are going around in circles, just as I predicted 50 or so pages ago.

And you'll continue to do so the longer you fail to understand anything about denpressure but carry on trying to argue against it. It's fairly amusing watching you do this.
It's called getting a firm grip on the coat tails of the usual suspects to add one extra in the mass argument as if it offers you some leverage.
It doesn't.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 It's like a culture clash happening here, or a massive language barrier even though we all seem to be speaking English.

The only barrier is the one you keep hiding behind. I call it a shield.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Superficially, yes, I did seem to grasp what your denpressure was meant to be.

You grasped none of it and it's as plain as anything.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 But with the slightest bit of science application, denpressure doesn't work.

You have no clue about denpressure. You just pretend you do for a while then admit you don't. It honestly is amusing.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 If you took the time to drop a full mountain dew bottle and half filled mountain dew bottle from the same great height, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails.

It would show denpressure to be working as I said.
The only argument from your side is in the dense mass make-up of the bottles that can overcome below resistance with the aid of above displacement.
This is why short heights offer you what appears to be an equal drop, which even that isn't true but it's hard to mark the minute difference.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

If you took the time to see how easily you can contain air pressure in the same bottle of mountain dew, but cannot shield this force you call denpressure and we call gravity, you would easily prove to yourself denpressure fails.

Let's make this quite clear, so put your mind to this and really think about it.
You want to argue about half a bottle of Mountain Dew against a full bottle.
So tell me what would happen if the bottle was only a thimble full of Mountain Dew against a full bottle of Mountain Dew.
Would they fall at the same rate or would atmospheric resistance overcome one against the other more.?

You know the answer to it but let's see how you get out of it.

Now then, if you want to argue this and say "Oh yeah but that's because the bottle is lighter", then think about the whole of the other against a full bottle.
Two thimbles full?
Three. Four. Five.?
When does it become equal in your eyes and why?

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Taking on Einstein and Newton would be an onerous task for anybody, Sceptimatic.

Those people are in the past and the stories about them are based on a lot of unprovable hypotheticals cast off as truths but also hidden behind the words "scientific theories."
It means nothing much to me because I don't take much of anything from them.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

There is no need to take any of this personally.

We're on a forum, I'm not taking anything personally. Maybe you're just projecting here.
Most likely to be fair.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 You offered up your model for examination and it has been repeatedly explained why it falters.

It's never been shown to falter.
Many words have been typed but nothing has stopped denpressure.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 Offer it up in another forum and see if it garners any different results. Being the scientist you regard yourself as, that would be the scientific method, would it not?

People are generally stuck in their ways in terms of mass adherence to whatever subjects so it doesn't matter what I offer. People have to understand it before they can dismiss it legitimately.
Of course, anyone can dismiss it out of mind but doing that without having a clue is basically worthless as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Regarding storytellers, there are two types which you need to try and get your head around. Type one is true storytellers such as the stories produced from the annals of science.

And those stories should be able to be backed to show anyone those truths, otherwise, they are theories or hypotheticals or simply fiction.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 Type two is bullshit storytellers such as the stories produced from the anals of ignorance and fear.

And this is where the sorting of the wheat from the chaff comes to the forefront where the arguments are ongoing as to which stories have been put on the fact shelf without proof and which stories have been put on the fiction shelf that may actually offer a better reality to the other stories.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

The latter is what you appeal to, Sceptimatic.

I'd say this covers your mindset to be fair.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Who am I to question what appeals to you?

A handle on a forum.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 You've lived your best flat earth life for many years, so obviously it's working for you and I'm just another naysayer or idiot on your path.

That's your thoughts.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Sceptimatic, how could you provide any constructive input into how to build an anti-gravity device if we can't even agree what gravity is?

I can't because gravity does not exist. It's fiction, so it's basically an impossible task, just as it would be for anyone.
It can be fine for a fictional movie or something, but real life..... Nahhhhh.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

 Yes, I used the word gravity, but was I supposed to say? How you can help build an anti-denpressure device?

Denpressue is. There's no anti-anything with denpressure.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Your bottle of mountain dew is already an anti denpressure device.

It's denpressure at work as it is with everything about Earth.

Sceptimatic, I have seen loaves of bread unearthed in archaeological digs that are less stale than this thread. It's run it's course.
A bottle of mountain dew has demolished your theory. You sitting at your desk dressed in yout gimp suit and on your keyboard reading this post, and not floating aimlessly near your ceiling, demolishes denpressure. Denpressure is cooked.

What direction do you want to see this thread go in now, Sceptimatic?

What direction do you want to see this thread go in now, Sceptimatic?

How about just sticking to the intent of the thread…..

What experiment would prove your statement in bold?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 link=topic=91690.msg2401600#m

Meaningless word salad for you can’t explain why the “high press” at sea level isn’t venting/equalizing with the lower pressure of higher atmosphere. 

It doesn't vent because it's at its limit of molecular breakdown and at that point, it freezes. It goes dormant.
It stacks.
It does not pressurise like in a gas bottle encased in metal.

So if it’s at its limit of molecular breakdown, then when is helium made to make helium skin of your dome.  Seems like another contradiction….