Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:05:04 AM

Dense mass isn't attracted

Then stop appealing to dense mass like it explains things.
Instead, appeal to the air pushing it.

Dense mass has to displace atmosphere, it's not just a case of atmosphere just pushing with no resistance. It's about any dense mass displacing what it is placed into.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:05:04 AM

Their dense mass make-up of molecules.

Again, unless you are appealing to gravity, this does not explain it.
Why should dense mass cause them to make layers?

Because one layering of molecules with fewer molecular layers within will be squeezed up onto the top of molecular layers with layers.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:05:04 AM

Molecular density of each being different.

Again, this explains nothing.
Why should their density being different make them form layers?
Why don't they just stay mixed?
If they are going to form layers, why do the dense ones go to the bottom, instead of the top or the side or the middle?

The denser molecules are at the bottom because the less dense molecules cannot overcome them by vibrating into them.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:22:04 AM

Because the actual rocket has elevated into a much higher layering of atmosphere and that causes a change in all of the molecules in all of the liquids and gases, expanding them or allowing expansion.

If this was the case it should have happened while it was still ascending, rather than waiting till it enters a 0g state.

No because the speed of the rocket alters the molecular change happening due to created friction and basically keeping a higher force against the tubes.
Once you alter that then the gases and liquids are acted upon internally by expansion due to external change in pressure at those layers it sits in.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:22:04 AM

I already told you about different sizes and you denied it and said all molecules were the same size.

Stop repeating the same strawman.
You faseley claim the molecules of all gases magically change size, expanding and contracting as necessary. If that was the case molecular sieves wouldn't work.

The molecules in this case are already broken down and this wasn't the argument.
You said. I mean data said all molecules were the same size. I disagreed and then he changed it to co2 and whatnot.

They work because each molecule has their own size.

Each molecule, yes, as close as in the right environment where they are broken down and kept to that.

For example, CO2 is much larger than N2 and O2, so O2 and N2 can easily make it through pores of a certain size while CO2 can't.
If your nonsense was true, then CO2 would be able to get squeezed through.

As above.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:22:04 AM

It backs up my thoughts all the way but you can't or won't see that.

It directly contradicts your fantasy, just like so much of reality. You just refuse to accept that, because you want to pretend your fantasy is true.

None of it is a contradiction it's just down to you and your twin brother's data not understanding it from my side or not wanting to, which is fine by me because it changes nothing from my side.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 13, 2023, 07:39:49 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 13, 2023, 03:36:51 AM

In the video of the ground base rocket.

On the way up.  The rocket expelled all its fuel.  The rocket slows, then before it reaches its peak height.  The liquids mix before the rocket’s parachute opens.


On the way up.

Tube on the left.  Water green under oil.  Tube right on the right blue water under air.

Until burnout.

The graph on the left is altitude of the rocket vs time in video.

The liquids are sealed tight as in no liquid is spilling out.



After burnout rocket slows.  Effectively in micro gravity.  The right tube with the rocket nose still pointed up slowing down, why is more dense water above the air? 

The left tube. Water and oil start to mix.  Still forward momentum.  Nose pointed up.





Peak of altitude or apogee.  Nose up towards sky. Before parachute deployment.  The rocket is in simulated micro G.

The water and oil (green and clear liquids) mixed.

The water and air (the blue liquid in the right tube) still has water above air.

How are the densities of the different liquids getting all mixed up after fuel burnout, still with forward momentum to zero momentum, and the rocket nose pointed upwards?


There are two different sealed containers, so how is there “expansion of the atmosphere within the tube”?

Because the actual rocket has elevated into a much higher layering of atmosphere and that causes a change in all of the molecules in all of the liquids and gases, expanding them or allowing expansion.
This expansion enacts a force on a denser liquid against the atmosphere within caused by less atmospheric layering external to it.

The fluids and liquids are in sealed containers.  They are under the same pressure and “atmosphere” no matter their hight. 

You lose.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 13, 2023, 03:36:51 AM

They don't and you can keep using this gunk for as long as you wish but it's still gunk.

The reality is feathers, coins, bowling balls with air resistance removed drop at the same rate.  That is demonstrable reality.

The reality is it appears that some things fall at the same rate but it's simply not the case.

And yet.  Documented proof they do fall at the same rate when air resistance is made negligible.  With you unable to model what the difference in your delusion should be.  With you providing no proof they fall at different rates.

I already told you about different sizes and you denied it and said all molecules were the same size.
Now you're offering set broken down molecules into different gases as being fairly uniform.

Sad you have to lie.  The actual post…

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 09:00:46 AM

But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

No they aren't.

Sorry.  Molecules are a fixed size.  And processed bank on that…

Quote

What Is Molecular Sieve?


A practical example of the function of molecular sieves is to dry ethanol. Because of the azeotrope formed when it is mixed with water, normal distillation of ethanol can only achieve a purity of 96% ethanol – the remaining 4% being water. For ethanol to be considered fuel grade, it has to be greater than 99% dehydrated. To achieve this level of purity, a 3A molecular sieve, designed specifically with 3 Angstrom-sized pores, is used to adsorb the water molecules, while the larger ethanol molecules are excluded. As there is no competition for adsorption, this process easily dehydrates ethanol to the desired level of purity so that it can be considered fuel grade.

The size of the pores of both Type A and Type X molecular sieves is closely controlled during the manufacturing process. Sodium, calcium, and potassium ions can be exchanged with one another in the molecule to regulate the size of the pore opening. This allows for preferential adsorption of gas and liquid molecules. To get a sense of how this works, try to imagine a parking garage: the height of your vehicle is 7′, but the roof of the garage is only 6’8″. As hard as you may try, you are not going to get your vehicle into the garage. The same principal applies to the adsorption of molecules in the pores of a molecular sieve. This allows scientists and engineers to design systems that can separate chemicals on a molecular level.

Many people do not realize all of the applications of molecular sieves that help to improve our everyday lives. Almost every imaginable product has been touched by molecular sieve in some way. From steel production, insulated glass windows, fuel ethanol, and oxygen for breathing apparatuses, to the air conditioning filter cores in our cars, molecular sieves are a part of our lives every day.

https://www.interraglobal.com/what-is-molecular-sieve/#:~:text=Molecular%20sieves%20are%20synthetic%20zeolite,on%20molecular%20size%20and%20polarity.

If molecules measurably changed sizes, especially in the manner you mean, it would make Molecular Sieves useless.  Yet Molecular Sieves are effective for a number of pressures and temperatures.

I’m more familiar with using Molecular Sieve in an air separation plant.  Know how I know it’s effective for CO2?  For a range of pressures and temperatures?  Because if there was CO2 breakthrough, the CO2 would create CO2 ice that would plunge up the system and destroy the expander compressor ever before the colder target temperatures for the desired products were reached.

Each molecule, yes, as close as in the right environment where they are broken down and kept to that.

Word salad.. meaningless.


When you going to tackle this…

Bonds are fine because they don't involve attractive/pulling forces because they don't exist.
It's all expansion to force compression. It's all push and resistance to push. That's basically it.

Hmmm…

Detailed Description
Cohesion: Hydrogen Bonds Make Water Sticky
Water has an amazing ability to adhere (stick) to itself and to other substances. The property of cohesion describes the ability of water molecules to be attracted to other water molecules, which allows water to be a "sticky" liquid.
Hydrogen bonds are attractions of electrostatic force caused by the difference in charge between slightly positive hydrogen ions and other, slightly negative ions. In the case of water, hydrogen bonds form between neighboring hydrogen and oxygen atoms of adjacent water molecules. The attraction between individual water molecules creates a bond known as a hydrogen bond.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/strong-polar-bond-between-water-molecules-creates-water-cohesion#:~:text=In%20the%20case%20of%20water,known%20as%20a%20hydrogen%20bond.

Water stuck on a window?  Not running down?

Water stuck to the ceiling not dripping?

Water can stick to windows and overhangs and not fall because of “Hydrogen bonds are attractions of electrostatic force”.


Let’s take a water drop on a ceiling.  The hydrogen bond that makes water “sticky” allows it to hold on and not drip. The forces of cohesion and adhesion with the water drop and the ceiling is greater than the force of gravity on the water droplet.

  If the water drop continues to accumulate mass through say condensation, gravity
will finally have enough force to overcome the water droplet’s cohesion and adhesion with the ceiling, and the water drop will fall.

So.  In den pressure.  How can a water droplet stick to the underside of a ceiling.  Then when the water droplet is massive enough, what in den pressure overcomes the forces of cohesion and adhesion with the water droplet and ceiling to make it fall?  There is no atmosphere between the water droplet and ceiling.

Dense mass has to displace atmosphere, it's not just a case of atmosphere just pushing with no resistance. It's about any dense mass displacing what it is placed into.

Firstly, for objects, that displacement is not magically directional.
That displacement means the atmosphere is around it, pushing in.
And because that push is greater from below, it means it pushes up.

But more importantly, we were discussing the atmosphere and why it stacks.
So are you saying the atmosphere displaces the atmosphere?
If so, that still doesn't give a reason for any directionality and therefore for any stacking.

Because one layering of molecules with fewer molecular layers within will be squeezed up onto the top of molecular layers with layers.

Why?
Again, you are just stating the observation, you are not explaining it.

The denser molecules are at the bottom because the less dense molecules cannot overcome them by vibrating into them.

Remember, you were provided examples with a bunch of different configurations.
This included a case where the denser molecules are at the top. In that case the less dense cannot overcome them by vibrating into them. That means the more dense molecules remain where they are.
You even admitted that that would be the case:

Quote from: JackBlack

Do you think the ones with the greater number of layers will just sit there because they cannot be overcome by the ones with one layer less?

Yes.

So that doesn't provide a reason for stacking. It provides a "reason" for the molecules to stay where they are, even if that means the dense ones are on top.

No because the speed of the rocket alters the molecular change happening due to created friction and basically keeping a higher force against the tubes.

No, it doesn't.
Because the gases in the rocket were initially moving with it. So it is equivalent to the

The molecules in this case are already broken down and this wasn't the argument.
You said. I mean data said all molecules were the same size. I disagreed and then he changed it to co2 and whatnot.

It had been the argument from the start of it being brought up.
Data NEVER said that ALL molecules were the same size.
They said their size was fixed.
They objected to your delusional claim that molecules magically expand and contract by stating that their size is fixed.

That is not saying that every molecule has the same size. That is saying that a particular molecule has a fixed size, that it will not expand or contract.

Each molecule, yes

So when you put a collection of molecules sealed in an airtight chamber, and then remove some of them, the ones remaining do not expand, their size remains fixed?

None of it is a contradiction

You not liking it doesn't mean it isn't a contradiction.
According to your fantasy, molecules are able to expand and contract as needed to fill whatever space is available.
This means any molecules to be able to squeeze through molecular sieves, making molecular sieves quite pointless.
It means you should not be able to remove water from a solution by using molecular sieves. It means you shouldn't be able to separate CO2 from N2 and O2 by using molecular sieves.

If molecules really do expand and contract as needed, then why can't CO2 go through molecular sieves? What stops it being compressed through the pores?

According to your fantasy, molecules are able to expand and contract as needed to fill whatever space is available.

So… in sceptimatic‘s model? 

Pressure should be static, essential constant, for a closed container as gas molecules are pumped in or pumped out of the sealed container?

And for the molecules to expand or compress.  Wouldn’t in sceptimatic delusion their molecules effectively be like little balloons in the RE model with little “particles” bouncing around creating internal pressure?  Like a gas filled balloon in the RE model?


And what the hell in the den pressure model is this internal molecular pressure’s  “opposite and equal reaction” that allows delusional den pressure molecules to expand and contract?

Den pressure, what a useless delusion…

Why down?
Queue the stacking word salad that explains nothing. 
Why down, not the same thing we keep telling you explains nothing, actually explain it.  I'm starting to think you have reached the limit of your ability to play silly games without invoking a lot more lying.  You do a decent job trying to avoid it, but you seem to have nothing left but the lies now.  Aka matter of factly stating things like very reduced pressure, or as most people refer to it as near vacuum or a vacuum doesn't exist, but never actually explain why.  Those are lies.

Sceptimatic, with the amount of batting you do to your den pressure replies, you could be a star cricket player.

Obviously you're saying your backward flat earth with dome, is air tight? Like an air tight cake display with clear plastic dome?

Why don't you make a working model of your theory, using such a cake display with clear plastic dome, and prove the whole world wrong?

Naturally, you'd have to use the equidistant map projection of the globe earth as your flat earth simulation, pretending it's what earth actually looks like from above.

The fluids and liquids are in sealed containers.  They are under the same pressure and “atmosphere” no matter their hight. 

You lose.

They are not under the same pressure at all.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:22:04 AM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 13, 2023, 03:36:51 AM

They don't and you can keep using this gunk for as long as you wish but it's still gunk.

The reality is feathers, coins, bowling balls with air resistance removed drop at the same rate.  That is demonstrable reality.

The reality is it appears that some things fall at the same rate but it's simply not the case.

And yet.  Documented proof they do fall at the same rate when air resistance is made negligible.  With you unable to model what the difference in your delusion should be.  With you providing no proof they fall at different rates.

Clearly you didn't get what I said about this.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:22:04 AM

I already told you about different sizes and you denied it and said all molecules were the same size.
Now you're offering set broken down molecules into different gases as being fairly uniform.

Sad you have to lie.  The actual post…

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 11, 2023, 04:23:43 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 09:00:46 AM

But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

No they aren't.

Sorry.  Molecules are a fixed size.  And processed bank on that…

Quote

What Is Molecular Sieve?


A practical example of the function of molecular sieves is to dry ethanol. Because of the azeotrope formed when it is mixed with water, normal distillation of ethanol can only achieve a purity of 96% ethanol – the remaining 4% being water. For ethanol to be considered fuel grade, it has to be greater than 99% dehydrated. To achieve this level of purity, a 3A molecular sieve, designed specifically with 3 Angstrom-sized pores, is used to adsorb the water molecules, while the larger ethanol molecules are excluded. As there is no competition for adsorption, this process easily dehydrates ethanol to the desired level of purity so that it can be considered fuel grade.

The size of the pores of both Type A and Type X molecular sieves is closely controlled during the manufacturing process. Sodium, calcium, and potassium ions can be exchanged with one another in the molecule to regulate the size of the pore opening. This allows for preferential adsorption of gas and liquid molecules. To get a sense of how this works, try to imagine a parking garage: the height of your vehicle is 7′, but the roof of the garage is only 6’8″. As hard as you may try, you are not going to get your vehicle into the garage. The same principal applies to the adsorption of molecules in the pores of a molecular sieve. This allows scientists and engineers to design systems that can separate chemicals on a molecular level.

Many people do not realize all of the applications of molecular sieves that help to improve our everyday lives. Almost every imaginable product has been touched by molecular sieve in some way. From steel production, insulated glass windows, fuel ethanol, and oxygen for breathing apparatuses, to the air conditioning filter cores in our cars, molecular sieves are a part of our lives every day.

https://www.interraglobal.com/what-is-molecular-sieve/#:~:text=Molecular%20sieves%20are%20synthetic%20zeolite,on%20molecular%20size%20and%20polarity.

If molecules measurably changed sizes, especially in the manner you mean, it would make Molecular Sieves useless.  Yet Molecular Sieves are effective for a number of pressures and temperatures.

I’m more familiar with using Molecular Sieve in an air separation plant.  Know how I know it’s effective for CO2?  For a range of pressures and temperatures?  Because if there was CO2 breakthrough, the CO2 would create CO2 ice that would plunge up the system and destroy the expander compressor ever before the colder target temperatures for the desired products were reached.

It's not me that's lying.
You clearly said it and you even quote it again and again.

Don't waste too much of your time trying this ducking and diving. Just accept you messed up.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:56:28 AM

Each molecule, yes, as close as in the right environment where they are broken down and kept to that.

Word salad.. meaningless.


When you going to tackle this…

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 13, 2023, 03:53:52 AM

Bonds are fine because they don't involve attractive/pulling forces because they don't exist.
It's all expansion to force compression. It's all push and resistance to push. That's basically it.

Hmmm…

Quote

Detailed Description
Cohesion: Hydrogen Bonds Make Water Sticky
Water has an amazing ability to adhere (stick) to itself and to other substances. The property of cohesion describes the ability of water molecules to be attracted to other water molecules, which allows water to be a "sticky" liquid.
Hydrogen bonds are attractions of electrostatic force caused by the difference in charge between slightly positive hydrogen ions and other, slightly negative ions. In the case of water, hydrogen bonds form between neighboring hydrogen and oxygen atoms of adjacent water molecules. The attraction between individual water molecules creates a bond known as a hydrogen bond.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/strong-polar-bond-between-water-molecules-creates-water-cohesion#:~:text=In%20the%20case%20of%20water,known%20as%20a%20hydrogen%20bond.

Water stuck on a window?  Not running down?

Atmospheric pressure upon water caught within solids and held or pits and held.

Water stuck to the ceiling not dripping?

Atmospheric pressure resisting the small amount of water and using the ceiling as a foundation and not allowing atmospheric pressure above to create a push back.

Water can stick to windows and overhangs and not fall because of “Hydrogen bonds are attractions of electrostatic force”.

Water does not stick to windows without atmospheric pressure holding it there aided by solids or window pits or to put it plainly, muck on windows or minor window indentations.

Let’s take a water drop on a ceiling.  The hydrogen bond that makes water “sticky” allows it to hold on and not drip. The forces of cohesion and adhesion with the water drop and the ceiling is greater than the force of gravity on the water droplet.

No.
The pressure of the atmosphere is enough to overcome the potential water droplet because the ceiling offers the water a foundation and does not allow for the atmosphere to get behind it to allow the potential water droplet to displace it to enact a squeeze back down.
No gravity is needed.

  If the water drop continues to accumulate mass through say condensation, gravity
will finally have enough force to overcome the water droplet’s cohesion and adhesion with the ceiling, and the water drop will fall.

If the potential water droplet accumulates enough dense mass it will be squeezed at the sides as normal but with more pressure which will create a displacement much bigger than the resistance below it and eventually the droplet will be squeezed at the midway to the highest point to cause the water to become the droplet, hence why you see a pip looking water droplet.

All denpressure.

So.  In den pressure.  How can a water droplet stick to the underside of a ceiling.  Then when the water droplet is massive enough, what in den pressure overcomes the forces of cohesion and adhesion with the water droplet and ceiling to make it fall?  There is no atmosphere between the water droplet and ceiling.

Hopefully I've explained enough. I doubt it but maybe some genuinely interested posters may actually see what I'm getting at.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 05:56:28 AM

Dense mass has to displace atmosphere, it's not just a case of atmosphere just pushing with no resistance. It's about any dense mass displacing what it is placed into.

Firstly, for objects, that displacement is not magically directional.
That displacement means the atmosphere is around it, pushing in.
And because that push is greater from below, it means it pushes up.

Only if the dense mass displacement is of molecules that are broken down enough to be pushed/squeezed up. This is why helium and helium balloons get squeezed up.

But more importantly, we were discussing the atmosphere and why it stacks.
So are you saying the atmosphere displaces the atmosphere?

Yes I am and I can't understand why it's taken you so long to grasp this.
I've told you so many times but you simply do not want to see it because it offers realism against fictional gravity.

If so, that still doesn't give a reason for any directionality and therefore for any stacking.

It does when you actually pay full attention to what's been said.

Quote from: JackBlack on May 14, 2023, 02:11:21 PM

According to your fantasy, molecules are able to expand and contract as needed to fill whatever space is available.

So… in sceptimatic‘s model? 

Pressure should be static, essential constant, for a closed container as gas molecules are pumped in or pumped out of the sealed container?

Pressure can never be static.
Energy equals vibration/friction and frequencies.

And for the molecules to expand or compress.  Wouldn’t in sceptimatic delusion their molecules effectively be like little balloons in the RE model with little “particles” bouncing around creating internal pressure?  Like a gas filled balloon in the RE model?

They're bouncing into each other not bouncing around. They're simply trying to decompress naturally but can't because they're containerised or stacked.

And what the hell in the den pressure model is this internal molecular pressure’s  “opposite and equal reaction” that allows delusional den pressure molecules to expand and contract?

Vibration/friction and frequencies by energy applied.

Why down?
Queue the stacking word salad that explains nothing. 
Why down, not the same thing we keep telling you explains nothing, actually explain it.  I'm starting to think you have reached the limit of your ability to play silly games without invoking a lot more lying.  You do a decent job trying to avoid it, but you seem to have nothing left but the lies now.  Aka matter of factly stating things like very reduced pressure, or as most people refer to it as near vacuum or a vacuum doesn't exist, but never actually explain why.  Those are lies.

Spend some time paying full attention and you won't need to ask this a million times like Jack and data do.

Sceptimatic, with the amount of batting you do to your den pressure replies, you could be a star cricket player.

Howzat? 

Obviously you're saying your backward flat earth with dome, is air tight?

Not in the way you think.

Like an air tight cake display with clear plastic dome?

Nope.

Why don't you make a working model of your theory, using such a cake display with clear plastic dome, and prove the whole world wrong?

I could but it wouldn't offer an explanation by using such a thing.

Naturally, you'd have to use the equidistant map projection of the globe earth as your flat earth simulation, pretending it's what earth actually looks like from above.

Nobody knows what the Earth looks like from above.
Many people know what portions of landmass and water lines look like from above.

The rest is all best guessing based on observations from what we perceive, unless the fairy storybooks convince people otherwise, which they generally do.

It's not me that's lying.
You clearly said it and you even quote it again and again.

It is you being dishonest, just like so often.
Again, do you understand the difference between fixed and same?

Molecules being a fixed size means the size doesn't change. Not that every single molecules is the same size, but that a given molecule will not change size.
You entirely misrepresented the statement, because you can't explain how molecular sieves work in your fantasy.

Only if the dense mass displacement is of molecules that are broken down enough to be pushed/squeezed up. This is why helium and helium balloons get squeezed up.

No, for everything.
The pressure is greater below, so it pushes up.

Yes I am and I can't understand why it's taken you so long to grasp this.

Probably because you are effectively saying it displaces itself.
But you still don't prove an explanation.

It does when you actually pay full attention to what's been said.

No, it doesn't. Not in the slightest.
The atmosphere displacing the atmosphere does NOT explain why it should be denser at the bottom.
You have no justification at all for the directionality.

Spend some time paying full attention and you won't need to ask this a million times like Jack and data do.

Try providing a coherent explanation rather than repeatedly dodging the issue and falsely asserting that you have explained it. Then we wouldn't need to repeatedly ask you.
Until you provide such an explanation I will continue to ask.

Pressure can never be static.
Energy equals vibration/friction and frequencies.

That doesn’t answer the question.

 If you let out molecules of gas of a gas bottle in your delusion, and the  remaining gas molecules grow because in your delusion there can’t be free space, why would there be any pressure change as long as there are gas molecules in the gas bottle. 

Quote from: Mikey T. on May 14, 2023, 06:53:34 PM

Why down?
Queue the stacking word salad that explains nothing. 
Why down, not the same thing we keep telling you explains nothing, actually explain it.  I'm starting to think you have reached the limit of your ability to play silly games without invoking a lot more lying.  You do a decent job trying to avoid it, but you seem to have nothing left but the lies now.  Aka matter of factly stating things like very reduced pressure, or as most people refer to it as near vacuum or a vacuum doesn't exist, but never actually explain why.  Those are lies.

Spend some time paying full attention and you won't need to ask this a million times like Jack and data do.

So you can't answer the questions then. I've paid attention, I've been here for quite awhile, I know your games well. 
Here ya go, clean slate all around.  Ignore the past, explain. Why down, why that direction, not that it does happen, what mechanism makes the more massive items move in that direction.
I bet you won't, you'll scream yet again you've already explained it.  If you had, everyone wouldn't still be asking.  Stop blaming others for your inability to support your statements.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:04:33 PM

It's not me that's lying.
You clearly said it and you even quote it again and again.

It is you being dishonest, just like so often.
Again, do you understand the difference between fixed and same?

Molecules being a fixed size means the size doesn't change. Not that every single molecules is the same size, but that a given molecule will not change size.
You entirely misrepresented the statement, because you can't explain how molecular sieves work in your fantasy.

That wasn't what was said. It was  molecules are a fixed size.


Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 05:38:20 PM
But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 11, 2023, 11:23:43 PM
No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

Quote from: JackBlack on May 15, 2023, 03:42:05 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:04:33 PM

It's not me that's lying.
You clearly said it and you even quote it again and again.

It is you being dishonest, just like so often.
Again, do you understand the difference between fixed and same?

Molecules being a fixed size means the size doesn't change. Not that every single molecules is the same size, but that a given molecule will not change size.
You entirely misrepresented the statement, because you can't explain how molecular sieves work in your fantasy.

That wasn't what was said. It was  molecules are a fixed size.


Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 05:38:20 PM
But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 11, 2023, 11:23:43 PM
No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

What is your problem.

The context of the whole post.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 09:00:46 AM

But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

No they aren't.

Sorry.  Molecules are a fixed size.  And processed bank on that…

What Is Molecular Sieve?


A practical example of the function of molecular sieves is to dry ethanol. Because of the azeotrope formed when it is mixed with water, normal distillation of ethanol can only achieve a purity of 96% ethanol – the remaining 4% being water. For ethanol to be considered fuel grade, it has to be greater than 99% dehydrated. To achieve this level of purity, a 3A molecular sieve, designed specifically with 3 Angstrom-sized pores, is used to adsorb the water molecules, while the larger ethanol molecules are excluded. As there is no competition for adsorption, this process easily dehydrates ethanol to the desired level of purity so that it can be considered fuel grade.

The size of the pores of both Type A and Type X molecular sieves is closely controlled during the manufacturing process. Sodium, calcium, and potassium ions can be exchanged with one another in the molecule to regulate the size of the pore opening. This allows for preferential adsorption of gas and liquid molecules. To get a sense of how this works, try to imagine a parking garage: the height of your vehicle is 7′, but the roof of the garage is only 6’8″. As hard as you may try, you are not going to get your vehicle into the garage. The same principal applies to the adsorption of molecules in the pores of a molecular sieve. This allows scientists and engineers to design systems that can separate chemicals on a molecular level.

Many people do not realize all of the applications of molecular sieves that help to improve our everyday lives. Almost every imaginable product has been touched by molecular sieve in some way. From steel production, insulated glass windows, fuel ethanol, and oxygen for breathing apparatuses, to the air conditioning filter cores in our cars, molecular sieves are a part of our lives every day.

https://www.interraglobal.com/what-is-molecular-sieve/#:~:text=Molecular%20sieves%20are%20synthetic%20zeolite,on%20molecular%20size%20and%20polarity.

If molecules measurably changed sizes, especially in the manner you mean, it would make Molecular Sieves useless.  Yet Molecular Sieves are effective for a number of pressures and temperatures.

I’m more familiar with using Molecular Sieve in an air separation plant.  Know how I know it’s effective for CO2?  For a range of pressures and temperatures?  Because if there was CO2 breakthrough, the CO2 would create CO2 ice that would plunge up the system and destroy the expander compressor ever before the colder target temperatures for the desired products were reached. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:26:43 PM

Only if the dense mass displacement is of molecules that are broken down enough to be pushed/squeezed up. This is why helium and helium balloons get squeezed up.

No, for everything.
The pressure is greater below, so it pushes up.

I've explained it very well to you and you refuse to even look at it and that's quite clear, which is fine by me.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:26:43 PM

It does when you actually pay full attention to what's been said.

No, it doesn't. Not in the slightest.
The atmosphere displacing the atmosphere does NOT explain why it should be denser at the bottom.
You have no justification at all for the directionality.

When you refuse to pay attention this is what you end up doing, which again, is fine by me.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:28:29 PM

Pressure can never be static.
Energy equals vibration/friction and frequencies.

That doesn’t answer the question.

 If you let out molecules of gas of a gas bottle in your delusion, and the  remaining gas molecules grow because in your delusion there can’t be free space, why would there be any pressure change as long as there are gas molecules in the gas bottle.

Because the pressure is being released externally to the gas bottle when the valve is opened and the first gases out are those at the valve opening which expand into the atmosphere followed by the next layering to expand into that valve and the next and the next and the next, all expanding into the atmosphere and losing gas bottle pressure as they do so which is seen on the pressure gauge.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 11, 2023, 11:23:43 PM
No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

Instead of being an ass.  Care to actually address the context of the post instead of dodging the question?

If molecules measurably changed sizes, especially in the manner you mean, it would make Molecular Sieves useless.  Yet Molecular Sieves are effective for a number of pressures and temperatures.

I’m more familiar with using Molecular Sieve in an air separation plant.  Know how I know it’s effective for CO2?  For a range of pressures and temperatures?  Because if there was CO2 breakthrough, the CO2 would create CO2 ice that would plunge up the system and destroy the expander compressor ever before the colder target temperatures for the desired products were reached. 


in the delusion of den pressure, where supposedly CO2 molecules can expand and contract with pressure.  How can molecular sieve with pores a fixed size collect CO2 based of molecule size over a wide range of pressures.  And only CO2.  And reliable pass and not be saturated with O2 and N2 over the same pressures. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:33:37 PM

Quote from: Mikey T. on May 14, 2023, 06:53:34 PM

Why down?
Queue the stacking word salad that explains nothing. 
Why down, not the same thing we keep telling you explains nothing, actually explain it.  I'm starting to think you have reached the limit of your ability to play silly games without invoking a lot more lying.  You do a decent job trying to avoid it, but you seem to have nothing left but the lies now.  Aka matter of factly stating things like very reduced pressure, or as most people refer to it as near vacuum or a vacuum doesn't exist, but never actually explain why.  Those are lies.

Spend some time paying full attention and you won't need to ask this a million times like Jack and data do.

So you can't answer the questions then. I've paid attention, I've been here for quite awhile, I know your games well. 
Here ya go, clean slate all around.  Ignore the past, explain. Why down, why that direction, not that it does happen, what mechanism makes the more massive items move in that direction.
I bet you won't, you'll scream yet again you've already explained it.  If you had, everyone wouldn't still be asking.  Stop blaming others for your inability to support your statements.

I have no need to scream but I'd say to you, calm down and stop getting all irate just because you don't want to understand.
If you'd paid attention you would not need to ask this question again and again and again like some others.

If you really want to understand then seriously pay close attention and stop pretending to just so you can get me to explain again only for you to say I haven't.
The issue is yours, not mine.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 15, 2023, 04:15:48 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on May 15, 2023, 03:42:05 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2023, 10:04:33 PM

It's not me that's lying.
You clearly said it and you even quote it again and again.

It is you being dishonest, just like so often.
Again, do you understand the difference between fixed and same?

Molecules being a fixed size means the size doesn't change. Not that every single molecules is the same size, but that a given molecule will not change size.
You entirely misrepresented the statement, because you can't explain how molecular sieves work in your fantasy.

That wasn't what was said. It was  molecules are a fixed size.


Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 05:38:20 PM
But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 11, 2023, 11:23:43 PM
No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

What is your problem.

The context of the whole post.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 11, 2023, 09:00:46 AM

But remember, the molecules are still expanding and contracting based on atmospheric changes.

No. Molecules are a fixed size.  Sorry.

No they aren't.

Sorry.  Molecules are a fixed size.  And processed bank on that…

Quote

What Is Molecular Sieve?


A practical example of the function of molecular sieves is to dry ethanol. Because of the azeotrope formed when it is mixed with water, normal distillation of ethanol can only achieve a purity of 96% ethanol – the remaining 4% being water. For ethanol to be considered fuel grade, it has to be greater than 99% dehydrated. To achieve this level of purity, a 3A molecular sieve, designed specifically with 3 Angstrom-sized pores, is used to adsorb the water molecules, while the larger ethanol molecules are excluded. As there is no competition for adsorption, this process easily dehydrates ethanol to the desired level of purity so that it can be considered fuel grade.

The size of the pores of both Type A and Type X molecular sieves is closely controlled during the manufacturing process. Sodium, calcium, and potassium ions can be exchanged with one another in the molecule to regulate the size of the pore opening. This allows for preferential adsorption of gas and liquid molecules. To get a sense of how this works, try to imagine a parking garage: the height of your vehicle is 7′, but the roof of the garage is only 6’8″. As hard as you may try, you are not going to get your vehicle into the garage. The same principal applies to the adsorption of molecules in the pores of a molecular sieve. This allows scientists and engineers to design systems that can separate chemicals on a molecular level.

Many people do not realize all of the applications of molecular sieves that help to improve our everyday lives. Almost every imaginable product has been touched by molecular sieve in some way. From steel production, insulated glass windows, fuel ethanol, and oxygen for breathing apparatuses, to the air conditioning filter cores in our cars, molecular sieves are a part of our lives every day.

https://www.interraglobal.com/what-is-molecular-sieve/#:~:text=Molecular%20sieves%20are%20synthetic%20zeolite,on%20molecular%20size%20and%20polarity.

If molecules measurably changed sizes, especially in the manner you mean, it would make Molecular Sieves useless.  Yet Molecular Sieves are effective for a number of pressures and temperatures.

I’m more familiar with using Molecular Sieve in an air separation plant.  Know how I know it’s effective for CO2?  For a range of pressures and temperatures?  Because if there was CO2 breakthrough, the CO2 would create CO2 ice that would plunge up the system and destroy the expander compressor ever before the colder target temperatures for the desired products were reached.

Just understand that all molecules are not a fixed size and stop trying to worm out of what you said.