Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #960 on: June 14, 2023, 04:09:13 AM »
Hey Scepti, please stop with the word-fuckery. Here's one of the dictionary definitions of vacuum:
Quote
2
a
: a space absolutely devoid of matter
b
: a space partially exhausted (as to the highest degree possible) by artificial means (such as an air pump)
c
: a degree of rarefaction below atmospheric pressure
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vacuum
The second definition is the one being used by almost everyone here. I know you like redefining words for Denpressure, but redefining the word for an effect you say doesn't exist either way just seems petty.
Let me make this clear and simple.
You and anyone else can go along with whatever you think a vacuum is. I have no issue with what you feel suits you best.
However, if you want to argue against denpressure and even understand denpressure then also understand that I don't subscribe to a vacuum, no matter how many different forms it seems to back up in your handed thought process.


If you and others believe space is empty but have scattered particles then it can't have pressure and that means it has to be a vacuum by the schooling you adhered to.
And this seems to apply to a chamber of evacuated molecules supposedly leaving free space which is also classed as a vacuum to you and others due to being told it.

Denpressure offers nothing of the sort and denpressure cannot be argued with by using a vacuum, so I'm not going to be arguing anything when a vacuum is used.
Use low pressure and put vacuum in brackets and I'll deal with the low pressure.
Offer free space and your argument is finished.

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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #961 on: June 14, 2023, 04:11:53 AM »
However, if you want to argue against denpressure and even understand denpressure then also understand that I don't subscribe to a vacuum, no matter how many different forms it seems to back up in your handed thought process.
This isn't about if you want to believe in it or not.
This is about you blatantly lying about words so you can pretend space can't exist.

Offer free space and your argument is finished.
Because it so easily defeats you and you have no rational, honest response?

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #962 on: June 14, 2023, 04:21:12 AM »
However, if you want to argue against denpressure and even understand denpressure then also understand that I don't subscribe to a vacuum, no matter how many different forms it seems to back up in your handed thought process.
This isn't about if you want to believe in it or not.
This is about you blatantly lying about words so you can pretend space can't exist.

Offer free space and your argument is finished.
Because it so easily defeats you and you have no rational, honest response?


JackBlack schools sceptimatic again…

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #963 on: June 14, 2023, 04:39:35 AM »
No, Then it's low pressure, not a vacuum.


Again.  We are beings that live in one atmosphere, and you are ignoring the stored energy/ potential context.
I'm not ignoring anything of the sort. You simply do not understand it from my side because you're too far behind your shield.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Pressurized, greater than atmospheric pressure.
No, not at all.
Pressurised in pressure in all instances, no matter how low or high.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  His more stored energy than air at atmosphere.

In an area, yes.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
A pressurized tank will spray out if containment is lost.
If it's higher pressure internally than what's in that area externally, yes.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
It will loss potential energy, and molecules to atmosphere.

It will decompress and compress external atm0osphere until it decompresses back to stacked layering.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Vacuum.  Pressure and stored energy below atmospheric pressure.
Nope. No vacuum can exist.
Lower pressure than external atmospheric pressure, yes.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
If a tank at vacuum loss containment, it will draw in atmosphere.
No, it won't.
The atmosphere will push into the container and compress the lower compressed molecules within that container.
The container draws nothing in.
Unless you can explain what drawing means in this instance.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
It will try to equalize with atmosphere by gaining more molecules, by gaining potential energy from atmosphere.

The atmosphere will push in more compressed molecules to decompress and then recompress within the container.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The word vacuum perfectly gives clear communication of pressure and potential energy in regards of atmosphere for the processes I work with. 
I know what and why it's used but I'm telling you it doesn't exist and it's simply lower pressure against higher pressure.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

You could argue that evacuation of matter will never end up leaving free space, meaning a vacuum cannot and never will exist.

Again..

The word vacuum perfectly gives clear communication of pressure and potential energy in regards to atmosphere for the processes I work with. 
No.
Lower pressure does not offer potential energy. It offers nothing. Only higher pressure against lower pressure offers the potential energy.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
No free space?
That is what makes gases highly compressible.
Correct, no free space can make gases more compressible, not free space.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Free space. That is why evacuating a chamber of air molecules below the amount of molecules found at atmosphere will make a feather fall faster.

Evacuating a chamber by natural decompression will obviously make anything fall faster because the resistance to that fall and dense mass are reduced.
I've never denied that so why are you offering it?


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  As more molecules are evacuated, the faster the feather will fall.
As above, the more that molecules can naturally decompress the less resistance to a dense mass there will be so naturally the fall will be faster.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Enough vacuum created by evacuating enough air molecules, before perfect vacuum, air resistance becomes negligible so a feather, coin, and bowling ball will fall at the same rate.

No it doesn't. You see here you go again with this vacuum, as if it's offering no pressure and free space.
It can't happen and is a fallacy.

If we go down to the nitty gritty of objects falling in low pressure they will only appear to fall at the same rate but the reality is, they don't, unless the dense mass of the objects and the make-up of the objects are identical.


The only issue we have here is in allowing the fall to happen over a large elevation but you and I both know the outcome will not be both objects hitting the ground at the same time from a massive height.
And this is why low heights are used to confuse people and have them believing in a fictional force called gravity.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Now.

There has to be free space between molecules.
No, there does not. It cannot happen and never will happen.
Everything is attached. All molecules are attached with absolutely no free space.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
It explains how the air molecules get out of the way for objects to fall.
No.
Take a look at the water. Are you saying water is free space?
Does an object sink in it?
Why?
If there is no free space in it then how does it happen?

Put your thinking cap on.
More densely layered molecules will push out of the way less densely layered molecules by expansion to compression to decompression.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  In den pressure where molecules ensure there is no free space by expanding to consume all free space, there is no room for a feather to fall.
As above.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
That literally means in den pressure  the mass / matter of air molecules have to expand so their mass takes up all free space.
There is never free space and the expansion is decompression which pushes molecules out of the way if the molecules decompressing are more layered.

I bet you're still massively confused and clearly you have no clue what you're arguing against.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
That literally means the mass of the feather and the mass of air molecules have to occupy the same space at the same instance for the feather to fall through the expanded mass of air molecules in a vacuum in DPD enduring all space is occupied by mater. [/b]
There is never a vacuum in denpressure so you will have to find another way to explain what it is you're trying to explain.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #964 on: June 14, 2023, 04:41:13 AM »
What’s the opposite and equal reaction for high pressure flowing to low pressure in your tank example in the context of den pressure delusion? 
Note.  Added.
Make it more challenging.  Especially when connected air tanks flow from high pressure to low pressure to equalize pressure to a uniform pressure throughout the tanks and system? 

Example.  What is the opposite and equal reaction if I connect a tank of breathing air at 3000 psi and another tank of breathing air at 1500 psi in parallel.  The I open the valves at the tanks so the pressure equalizes between the two tanks to a new uniform pressure between the two tanks. A pressure uniform throughout the system and dimensions of the tank.
You've just offered it.
I have no clue why you're using this.


Just remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction to that action.


Sigh…


You dodged the question.  And the question was for you to answer in the context of den pressure delusion..



They always remain stacked but the stacks are always being agitated against from above and below in terms of natural stacking and also all around the stacks in terms of rippling effects, as explained above..


Nothing is ever equal but everything tries to equalise, yet never really manages it.
For every action there is an equal and opposite, reaction.
It means a reaction must instantaneously follow the action, at all times to ensure you only get out of something what is put into it.
Applied force equals exact reactionary force.

So.  Again..


Example.  What is the opposite and equal reaction if I connect a tank of breathing air at 3000 psi and another tank of breathing air at 1500 psi in parallel.  I open the valves at the tanks so the pressure equalizes between the two tanks to a new uniform pressure between the two tanks. A pressure uniform throughout the system and dimensions of the tank.


Both tanks are at the same pressure potential.

The pressure in each tank is uniform with no stacking.

Pressure of molecules are always stacked. How can they not be?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #965 on: June 14, 2023, 04:42:24 AM »

Everything is transmitted but never undiminished.


In a system where each molecule has a fixed size. 


Not in den pressure delusion.  Changes in pressure and energy go to making molecules expand and contract.
So you admit they expand and contract?

Explain it from your side.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #966 on: June 14, 2023, 04:55:30 AM »
Don't just assert your delusional fantasy, explain why free space itself is impossible, even as a hypothetical.
I have and you can't explain what free space is and how it supposedly works.
I'll make this simple.
If two molecules are side by side with free space around them and between them then how do they move, vibrate, expand, compress, decompress?
Free space offers nothing and anything in nothing cannot move and anything in nothing that cannot move means nothing can actually exist to do any work, which means no Earth and what's in it.

Unless you would like to change your free space to molecules you can't see and it just appears to be free space. Do you want to do that?

Quote from: JackBlack
And again, notice how you just latch onto free space, and rage at it, rather than even attempting to address the issue?
I think you're massively projecting here.
Trying this is extremely weak and shows you to be losing the argument.

Quote from: JackBlack
Again, free space directly explains the vastly different compressibility of gases vs liquids.
No it doesn't.
You offer it as some kind of explanation and it's a nothing explanation unless you can explain what free space is and how it works.

Quote from: JackBlack
Gases are so compressible because of the free space.
Gases are compressible because the molecules are all attached in less dense layering within each molecule so can be compressed much easier by applied energy/force.

Quote from: JackBlack
You can simply reduce the free space, and bring the molecules closer together.
How do you reduce free space?
How do you close something that is nothing?

Quote from: JackBlack
Liquids have very little free space, so takes tremendous force to push them together.
Liquids have no free space. Liquids are merely more layered/dense molecules compressed into each other and take more energy to compress.
No free space unless you can explain what free space actually is.



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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #967 on: June 14, 2023, 04:56:28 AM »
However, if you want to argue against denpressure and even understand denpressure then also understand that I don't subscribe to a vacuum, no matter how many different forms it seems to back up in your handed thought process.
This isn't about if you want to believe in it or not.
This is about you blatantly lying about words so you can pretend space can't exist.

Offer free space and your argument is finished.
Because it so easily defeats you and you have no rational, honest response?
This is about denpressure so get used to it if you want to argue against it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #968 on: June 14, 2023, 04:57:45 AM »
However, if you want to argue against denpressure and even understand denpressure then also understand that I don't subscribe to a vacuum, no matter how many different forms it seems to back up in your handed thought process.
This isn't about if you want to believe in it or not.
This is about you blatantly lying about words so you can pretend space can't exist.

Offer free space and your argument is finished.
Because it so easily defeats you and you have no rational, honest response?


JackBlack schools sceptimatic again…

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The cracks and weakness is showing.
Well done, I'm sure your brother will be so pleased you try to back him up.
You're a good brother but a weak person.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #969 on: June 14, 2023, 05:24:38 AM »

Everything is transmitted but never undiminished.


In a system where each molecule has a fixed size. 


Not in den pressure delusion.  Changes in pressure and energy go to making molecules expand and contract.
So you admit they expand and contract?

Explain it from your side.


I said it was impossible for a feather to fall in a chamber with expanded air molecules filling all space with mass.

If den pressure delusion molecules expanded to fill all space with mater.  What’s the difference than setting a feather on a table? 

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #970 on: June 14, 2023, 05:39:46 AM »
However, if you want to argue against denpressure and even understand denpressure then also understand that I don't subscribe to a vacuum, no matter how many different forms it seems to back up in your handed thought process.
This isn't about if you want to believe in it or not.
This is about you blatantly lying about words so you can pretend space can't exist.

Offer free space and your argument is finished.
Because it so easily defeats you and you have no rational, honest response?


JackBlack schools sceptimatic again…

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The cracks and weakness is showing.
Well done, I'm sure your brother will be so pleased you try to back him up.
You're a good brother but a weak person.


More false authority by you.


What’s you list.


In the den pressure delusion of no free space between molecules a carburetor would not work.  The expanding air molecules in your delusion would prevent a low pressure area developing in the Venturi.  And there isn’t free space to even let the gasoline pick up and mix because your delusional molecules are packing all free space with mass.


A feather falling faster and faster as molecules in a chamber are increasingly removed below that found in atmosphere contradicts den pressure delusion.  As the molecules decrease in number and the pressure in the chamber is uniform (not stacked) there should be less den pressure “force”, thus the feather should fall slower.

See previous post.  Free space between air molecules allows a feather to fall.  In your den pressure delusion, molecules take up and fill all space with mass.  For a feather to fall in your delusion, the mass of the feather and the mass of the air molecules would have to occupy the same space at the same instance.


The fact two tanks connected and equalized with each other in a closed system where pressure potential and pressure is uniform in the tanks with no stacking contradicts den pressure delusion.


The fact a steel ball twenty times as dense as a ping pong ball falls at the same rate.  And you can’t model what the difference should be disproves den pressure delusion.

“Stacking” doesn’t work unless you have gravity to overcome air molecules tendency to equalized space and potential pressure energy between themselves.  Why would the atmosphere have more pressure potential at sea level, and there be directionality of “down” if gravity did not exist.


« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 05:42:36 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #971 on: June 14, 2023, 07:54:37 AM »

Everything is transmitted but never undiminished.


In a system where each molecule has a fixed size. 


Not in den pressure delusion.  Changes in pressure and energy go to making molecules expand and contract.
So you admit they expand and contract?

Explain it from your side.


I said it was impossible for a feather to fall in a chamber with expanded air molecules filling all space with mass.

If den pressure delusion molecules expanded to fill all space with mater. What’s the difference than setting a feather on a table?
Get to know the analogy of the gobstopper and what I explained about layering and you have half a chance if you pay attention to that simple point.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #972 on: June 14, 2023, 08:12:39 AM »

In denpressure of no free space between molecules a carburetor would not work.
Wrong.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  The expanding air molecules in your delusion would prevent a low pressure area developing in the Venturi.
Wrong.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  And there isn’t free space to even let the gasoline pick up and mix because your delusional molecules are packing all free space with mass.
Mass against mass. All about molecular layering.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
A feather falling faster and faster as molecules in a chamber are increasingly removed below that found in atmosphere contradicts denpressure .

In your mind it does because you have absolutely no clue about denpressure after all this time.
It shows one of two things.
1. You're simply taking no notice.
2. You can't understand it because it's not set out for you by authority.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  As the molecules decrease in number and the pressure in the chamber is uniform (not stacked) there should be less denpressure “force”, thus the feather should fall slower.
Again, you have taken no notice and don't even know what you're arguing. You're not alone, your brother knows only a fraction more.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
See previous post.  Free space between air molecules allows a feather to fall.
Free space is for fiction/fantasy/sci-fi.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  In your denpressure, molecules take up and fill all space with mass.
Yep. Never any free space at any time, ever.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  For a feather to fall in your delusion, the mass of the feather and the mass of the air molecules would have to occupy the same space at the same instance.

Nothing occupies the same space at the same instance. It's impossible. A molecule can blend into a space partially or it can displace a molecule in a space but never can one molecule take up the same space as another.
Get your thinking cap on.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The fact two tanks connected and equalized with each other in a closed system where pressure potential and pressure is uniform in the tanks with no stacking contradicts denpressure delusion.
It actually shows denpressure to be correct but you're too closed off to see it.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The fact a steel ball twenty times as dense as a ping pong ball falls at the same rate.
But it doesn't and never will in similar environments.
A t a low drop they can appear to fall at the same rate but you know that's not true.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  And you can’t model what the difference should be disproves denpressure delusion.
No need to model. It's been done enough times but hidden behind a variety of atmospheric conditions when fictional gravity gets shown up for the idiocy that it is.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
“Stacking” doesn’t work unless you have gravity to overcome air molecules tendency to equalized space and potential pressure energy between themselves.
Stacking works by energy push up, not down, so there's your gravity fiction gone.
The trouble is you can't understand why the atmosphere allows a crush down or a crush up depending on the energy applied and the molecular make-up it's applied to.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Why would the atmosphere have more pressure potential at sea level, and there be directionality of “down” if gravity did not exist.
It doesn't have a directionality of just down and also the pressure at sea level is based on the stacking system and layering of more dense to less dense molecules. (Think back to the gobstopper analogy if you can).

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #973 on: June 14, 2023, 08:13:54 AM »

Everything is transmitted but never undiminished.


In a system where each molecule has a fixed size. 


Not in den pressure delusion.  Changes in pressure and energy go to making molecules expand and contract.
So you admit they expand and contract?

Explain it from your side.


I said it was impossible for a feather to fall in a chamber with expanded air molecules filling all space with mass.

If den pressure delusion molecules expanded to fill all space with mater. What’s the difference than setting a feather on a table?
Get to know the analogy of the gobstopper and what I explained about layering and you have half a chance if you pay attention to that simple point.


Sigh…


Again.

That doesn’t explain how in your delusion if molecules must take up all space with there mater and mass why air doesn’t act like a table.



Regardless of what you say you're udner some kind of illusion that tehre's no pressure inside the chamber.


A lie by you.  Please quote where I ever posted such a thing.

There’s a reason vacuum gauges read a whole range.  Vacuum gauges read when pressure is below atmospheric pressure. 



A simple gauge shows the reality that different degrees of negative pressure / vacuum is expected.

And even posted about how much vacuum can realistically be drawn for a AC system as an example.   Where moisture and air has to evacuated before refrigerate is added to ensure proper AC operation.



Vacuum pumps work against a close system .
 That’s why they can evacuate an AC system of air and moisture so the system can be filled with refrigerant to work and not freeze up with moisture.
You're not offering anything.
What is it you're trying to offer?

No.  I’m offering reality that vacuum pumps are used to evacuate air and moister from AC systems in preparation for adding coolant.


Quote
What Is Refrigerant Evacuation?

Refrigerant evacuation is the removal of moisture, air and non-condensable gases from a refrigeration system.[3] During this process, a vacuum pump is used to draw the sealed HVAC system into a vacuum. This removes air, nitrogen and moisture from the unit.[4]

https://www.rsi.edu/blog/hvacr/what-is-refrigerant-evacuation-and-why-is-it-important/#:~:text=Refrigerant%20evacuation%20is%20the%20removal,and%20moisture%20from%20the%20unit.

Added

Quote
Deep vacuum method will require you to pull vacuum down to 500 microns or less (ideally less than 200 microns to ensure no moisture at all).
Once you have reached your vacuum isolate vacuum by shutting the ball valves on your core removers and perform a rise test for 30 minutes.
It should not rise more than 100 microns. If it does break the vacuum with nitrogen, then perform evacuation again to ensure the removal off all contaminants. You may need to change oil in the vacuum pump, I recommend changing after every use!  This is why it is best to have a variety of vacuum pumps as you don't need a 230 litre per min pump on a domestic fridge.

https://www.cooltools.net.au/blogs/how-to/how-to-correctly-evacuate-a-refrigeration-or-air-conditioning-system-with-a-vacuum-pump


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Now stop trying to avoid the question by lawyering it to death.  And stop trying to change the subject from the meat of the post.

Why does a feather fall faster and faster in a chamber as a pump draws out an increasing amount of gas molecules below the amount found at one atmosphere until the point a feather will fall at the same rate as a coin or bowling ball.
Explain what you mean by a pump drawing our gas.

I didn’t post “drawing out gas.”

A vacuum pump literally provides the prime mover to reduce the amount of air molecules in a closed  space that can seal out atmospheric pressure.  Reduce the number of air molecules for a given volume less than what is found at one atmosphere.

We have been over this countless times.  Use the pump to move gas molecules out of the chamber, and move them to atmosphere.  Enough air molecules can be removed until air resistance becomes negligible to the point a coin, bowling ball, feather will drop at the same rate.

Now.  Stop changing the subject.  Why in the delusion of den pressure, why does a feather fall faster in a chamber where air molecules have been evacuated out of that chamber than less what is found at one atmosphere.  This occurs before “perfect vacuum”.



There are and even in normal atmospheric conditions it still offers a displacement of it by an object placed into it.
Understand this.

And also understand that the object will be squeezed down against a much less resistant atmosphere within that chamber.

So, as I said, pay attention to denpressure before you argue against it.
Because you have no clue about it and it's clear.

What has what to do with, as pressure is reduced less and less than atmospheric a feather falls faster and faster as air resistance becomes negligible.  Which completely contradicts sense pressure delusion.  As pressure is reduced less that atmospheric pressure in den pressure delusion, objects like a feather should fall slower.


So you are down to three things.


One.  You ignore what is an actually posted.


Two. You lie about what is actually posted.


Three.  You ignore demonstrable reality.

Ok, I've looked through where I left off and there doesn't seem to be much except the you tube experiments that starman put out. All the rest are just little digs and not worth a reply, so I'll concentrate on those youtube videos of starman.

Firstly, I've never mentioned anything floating in any evacuated chamber. If you find that I have, I will accept that I'm wrong and you are right. If you cannot find anything then you are simply making stuff up to keep hold on to fake gravity for some strange reason. Ok back to the experiments.

In the first clip with the two balls and feather, they are in a EVACUATION chamber. It still has pressure but very little resistance to the feather due to the molecules being EXPANDED, meaning the mass of the feather can easily push through the friction under it because it is weak.
As I said before but people didn't listen. The feather or a ball or wood, all originates from being pushed UP from the ground and it's natural break down is back to where it came from, because the matter inside is greater than the atmosphere it is under. No gravity, just a cycle of dense materials being pushed up all the time and being pushed against what is above it, for example: the matter in the atmosphere. No gravity involved and no floating.

The moon experiment is laughable and should never ever be put out by science to try to prove anything, because it's just killed off what you were trying to prove in the first place by using that evacuated chamber.
You see, what you lot failed to grasp, is that the chamber on Earth is subject to FULL gravity  as you lot bang on about...yet your moon is subject to ONE SIXTH of Earth's gravity and guess what we see when both experiments are performed?
We see the same drop. It makes no odds though because gravity is 100% made up and cannot be explained as to what it is, yet it's gripped onto like a mouse caught in an Eagles claw.

I'm well aware that your gravity is hard to disprove. There's a simple reason for that. It's because it's like the invisible man;  you can't see him, you can't feel him... but you're told he's all around you and to accept it because it's true.
No gravity, just a element stack of dense to less dense molecules/matter/particles all pushing against each other from top to bottom and bottom to top. Action and reaction in equal measures.


So.  You expect people to go back to 2014?

This is how stupid den pressure delusion is.  You claim molecules with mass expand to take up all space so no space is massless.  You claim even in an evacuated chamber the molecules expand so there is no free space. Every bit of volume in the chamber is filled with mass / matter.  With no space between the molecules.  No space between matter. Is that a false statement.

A feather has mass / matter.

In your delusion for a feather to fall, the mass/matter of the father must occupy the same space filled with the mass/matter of air molecules. Your delusion literally requires the matter of the feather and the matter of air molecules to simultaneously occupy the same space in the same instance for the feather to fall. 




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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #974 on: June 14, 2023, 08:17:24 AM »

In denpressure of no free space between molecules a carburetor would not work.
Wrong.


It’s not wrong.  For a Venturi to have low pressure in a carburetor from air flow the individual molecules must have their own fixed sizes and free space between.  If the molecules entering the Venturi expand and take up there all space with their mass by expanding there would be no area of low pressure with no room to pickup gasoline.

You BS is a delusion that makes carburetors impossible to work. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #975 on: June 14, 2023, 08:18:08 AM »

Everything is transmitted but never undiminished.


In a system where each molecule has a fixed size. 


Not in den pressure delusion.  Changes in pressure and energy go to making molecules expand and contract.
So you admit they expand and contract?

Explain it from your side.


I said it was impossible for a feather to fall in a chamber with expanded air molecules filling all space with mass.

If den pressure delusion molecules expanded to fill all space with mater. What’s the difference than setting a feather on a table?
Get to know the analogy of the gobstopper and what I explained about layering and you have half a chance if you pay attention to that simple point.


Sigh…


Again.

That doesn’t explain how in your delusion if molecules must take up all space with there mater and mass why air doesn’t act like a table.



Regardless of what you say you're udner some kind of illusion that tehre's no pressure inside the chamber.


A lie by you.  Please quote where I ever posted such a thing.

There’s a reason vacuum gauges read a whole range.  Vacuum gauges read when pressure is below atmospheric pressure. 



A simple gauge shows the reality that different degrees of negative pressure / vacuum is expected.

And even posted about how much vacuum can realistically be drawn for a AC system as an example.   Where moisture and air has to evacuated before refrigerate is added to ensure proper AC operation.



Vacuum pumps work against a close system .
 That’s why they can evacuate an AC system of air and moisture so the system can be filled with refrigerant to work and not freeze up with moisture.
You're not offering anything.
What is it you're trying to offer?

No.  I’m offering reality that vacuum pumps are used to evacuate air and moister from AC systems in preparation for adding coolant.


Quote
What Is Refrigerant Evacuation?

Refrigerant evacuation is the removal of moisture, air and non-condensable gases from a refrigeration system.[3] During this process, a vacuum pump is used to draw the sealed HVAC system into a vacuum. This removes air, nitrogen and moisture from the unit.[4]

https://www.rsi.edu/blog/hvacr/what-is-refrigerant-evacuation-and-why-is-it-important/#:~:text=Refrigerant%20evacuation%20is%20the%20removal,and%20moisture%20from%20the%20unit.

Added

Quote
Deep vacuum method will require you to pull vacuum down to 500 microns or less (ideally less than 200 microns to ensure no moisture at all).
Once you have reached your vacuum isolate vacuum by shutting the ball valves on your core removers and perform a rise test for 30 minutes.
It should not rise more than 100 microns. If it does break the vacuum with nitrogen, then perform evacuation again to ensure the removal off all contaminants. You may need to change oil in the vacuum pump, I recommend changing after every use!  This is why it is best to have a variety of vacuum pumps as you don't need a 230 litre per min pump on a domestic fridge.

https://www.cooltools.net.au/blogs/how-to/how-to-correctly-evacuate-a-refrigeration-or-air-conditioning-system-with-a-vacuum-pump


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Now stop trying to avoid the question by lawyering it to death.  And stop trying to change the subject from the meat of the post.

Why does a feather fall faster and faster in a chamber as a pump draws out an increasing amount of gas molecules below the amount found at one atmosphere until the point a feather will fall at the same rate as a coin or bowling ball.
Explain what you mean by a pump drawing our gas.

I didn’t post “drawing out gas.”

A vacuum pump literally provides the prime mover to reduce the amount of air molecules in a closed  space that can seal out atmospheric pressure.  Reduce the number of air molecules for a given volume less than what is found at one atmosphere.

We have been over this countless times.  Use the pump to move gas molecules out of the chamber, and move them to atmosphere.  Enough air molecules can be removed until air resistance becomes negligible to the point a coin, bowling ball, feather will drop at the same rate.

Now.  Stop changing the subject.  Why in the delusion of den pressure, why does a feather fall faster in a chamber where air molecules have been evacuated out of that chamber than less what is found at one atmosphere.  This occurs before “perfect vacuum”.



There are and even in normal atmospheric conditions it still offers a displacement of it by an object placed into it.
Understand this.

And also understand that the object will be squeezed down against a much less resistant atmosphere within that chamber.

So, as I said, pay attention to denpressure before you argue against it.
Because you have no clue about it and it's clear.

What has what to do with, as pressure is reduced less and less than atmospheric a feather falls faster and faster as air resistance becomes negligible.  Which completely contradicts sense pressure delusion.  As pressure is reduced less that atmospheric pressure in den pressure delusion, objects like a feather should fall slower.


So you are down to three things.


One.  You ignore what is an actually posted.


Two. You lie about what is actually posted.


Three.  You ignore demonstrable reality.

Ok, I've looked through where I left off and there doesn't seem to be much except the you tube experiments that starman put out. All the rest are just little digs and not worth a reply, so I'll concentrate on those youtube videos of starman.

Firstly, I've never mentioned anything floating in any evacuated chamber. If you find that I have, I will accept that I'm wrong and you are right. If you cannot find anything then you are simply making stuff up to keep hold on to fake gravity for some strange reason. Ok back to the experiments.

In the first clip with the two balls and feather, they are in a EVACUATION chamber. It still has pressure but very little resistance to the feather due to the molecules being EXPANDED, meaning the mass of the feather can easily push through the friction under it because it is weak.
As I said before but people didn't listen. The feather or a ball or wood, all originates from being pushed UP from the ground and it's natural break down is back to where it came from, because the matter inside is greater than the atmosphere it is under. No gravity, just a cycle of dense materials being pushed up all the time and being pushed against what is above it, for example: the matter in the atmosphere. No gravity involved and no floating.

The moon experiment is laughable and should never ever be put out by science to try to prove anything, because it's just killed off what you were trying to prove in the first place by using that evacuated chamber.
You see, what you lot failed to grasp, is that the chamber on Earth is subject to FULL gravity  as you lot bang on about...yet your moon is subject to ONE SIXTH of Earth's gravity and guess what we see when both experiments are performed?
We see the same drop. It makes no odds though because gravity is 100% made up and cannot be explained as to what it is, yet it's gripped onto like a mouse caught in an Eagles claw.

I'm well aware that your gravity is hard to disprove. There's a simple reason for that. It's because it's like the invisible man;  you can't see him, you can't feel him... but you're told he's all around you and to accept it because it's true.
No gravity, just a element stack of dense to less dense molecules/matter/particles all pushing against each other from top to bottom and bottom to top. Action and reaction in equal measures.


So.  You expect people to go back to 2014?

This is how stupid den pressure delusion is.  You claim molecules with mass expand to take up all space so no space is massless.  You claim even in an evacuated chamber the molecules expand so there is no free space. Every bit of volume in the chamber is filled with mass / matter.  With no space between the molecules.  No space between matter. Is that a false statement.

A feather has mass / matter.

In your delusion for a feather to fall, the mass/matter of the father must occupy the same space filled with the mass/matter of air molecules. Your delusion literally requires the matter of the feather and the matter of air molecules to simultaneously occupy the same space in the same instance for the feather to fall.
Get back to me when you decide to pay attention because all you're doing is copying and pasting and no way can you read through that quickly and answer.
Let me know when you have the ability to pay attention without having your handy ready-made answers from authority.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #976 on: June 14, 2023, 08:19:45 AM »

In denpressure of no free space between molecules a carburetor would not work.
Wrong.


It’s not wrong.  For a Venturi to have low pressure in a carburetor from air flow the individual molecules must have their own fixed sizes and free space between.  If the molecules entering the Venturi expand and take up there all space with their mass by expanding there would be no area of low pressure with no room to pickup gasoline.

You BS is a delusion that makes carburetors impossible to work.
Try and remember what fuels the carburettor.

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #977 on: June 14, 2023, 08:20:41 AM »
Get back to me when you decide to pay attention because all you're doing is copying and pasting and no way can you read through that quickly and answer.
Let me know when you have the ability to pay attention without having your handy ready-made answers from authority.

Care to address the issues with you 2014 post?

Two. You lie about what is actually posted.


Three.  You ignore demonstrable reality.

Ok, I've looked through where I left off and there doesn't seem to be much except the you tube experiments that starman put out. All the rest are just little digs and not worth a reply, so I'll concentrate on those youtube videos of starman.

Firstly, I've never mentioned anything floating in any evacuated chamber. If you find that I have, I will accept that I'm wrong and you are right. If you cannot find anything then you are simply making stuff up to keep hold on to fake gravity for some strange reason. Ok back to the experiments.

In the first clip with the two balls and feather, they are in a EVACUATION chamber. It still has pressure but very little resistance to the feather due to the molecules being EXPANDED, meaning the mass of the feather can easily push through the friction under it because it is weak.
As I said before but people didn't listen. The feather or a ball or wood, all originates from being pushed UP from the ground and it's natural break down is back to where it came from, because the matter inside is greater than the atmosphere it is under. No gravity, just a cycle of dense materials being pushed up all the time and being pushed against what is above it, for example: the matter in the atmosphere. No gravity involved and no floating.

The moon experiment is laughable and should never ever be put out by science to try to prove anything, because it's just killed off what you were trying to prove in the first place by using that evacuated chamber.
You see, what you lot failed to grasp, is that the chamber on Earth is subject to FULL gravity  as you lot bang on about...yet your moon is subject to ONE SIXTH of Earth's gravity and guess what we see when both experiments are performed?
We see the same drop. It makes no odds though because gravity is 100% made up and cannot be explained as to what it is, yet it's gripped onto like a mouse caught in an Eagles claw.

I'm well aware that your gravity is hard to disprove. There's a simple reason for that. It's because it's like the invisible man;  you can't see him, you can't feel him... but you're told he's all around you and to accept it because it's true.
No gravity, just a element stack of dense to less dense molecules/matter/particles all pushing against each other from top to bottom and bottom to top. Action and reaction in equal measures.


So.  You expect people to go back to 2014?

This is how stupid den pressure delusion is.  You claim molecules with mass expand to take up all space so no space is massless.  You claim even in an evacuated chamber the molecules expand so there is no free space. Every bit of volume in the chamber is filled with mass / matter.  With no space between the molecules.  No space between matter. Is that a false statement.

A feather has mass / matter.

In your delusion for a feather to fall, the mass/matter of the father must occupy the same space filled with the mass/matter of air molecules. Your delusion literally requires the matter of the feather and the matter of air molecules to simultaneously occupy the same space in the same instance for the feather to fall. 

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #978 on: June 14, 2023, 08:26:21 AM »

In denpressure of no free space between molecules a carburetor would not work.
Wrong.


It’s not wrong.  For a Venturi to have low pressure in a carburetor from air flow the individual molecules must have their own fixed sizes and free space between.  If the molecules entering the Venturi expand and take up there all space with their mass by expanding there would be no area of low pressure with no room to pickup gasoline.

You BS is a delusion that makes carburetors impossible to work.
Try and remember what fuels the carburettor.


WTF??

The the incoming air must have space between individual molecules with their own fixed size.  The gasoline must mix with the air molecules in a proper uniform ratio.  Too little O2 to gasoline, no combustion.  Too much gasoline with O2, no combustion.

In your delusion where expanding air molecules would take up all space with their mass / matter there is literally no room for the gasoline to be picked up and mixed at the molecular level to a ratio that supports Combustion.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #979 on: June 14, 2023, 08:26:45 AM »
Get back to me when you decide to pay attention because all you're doing is copying and pasting and no way can you read through that quickly and answer.
Let me know when you have the ability to pay attention without having your handy ready-made answers from authority.

Care to address the issues with you 2014 post?

It still has pressure but very little resistance to the feather due to the molecules being EXPANDED, meaning the mass of the feather can easily push through the friction under it because it is weak.

Pay attention to what's been said.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #980 on: June 14, 2023, 08:27:48 AM »

In denpressure of no free space between molecules a carburetor would not work.
Wrong.


It’s not wrong.  For a Venturi to have low pressure in a carburetor from air flow the individual molecules must have their own fixed sizes and free space between.  If the molecules entering the Venturi expand and take up there all space with their mass by expanding there would be no area of low pressure with no room to pickup gasoline.

You BS is a delusion that makes carburetors impossible to work.
Try and remember what fuels the carburettor.


WTF??

The the incoming air must have space between individual molecules with their own fixed size.  The gasoline must mix with the air molecules in a proper uniform ratio.  Too little O2 to gasoline, no combustion.  Too much gasoline with O2, no combustion.

In your delusion where expanding air molecules would take up all space with their mass / matter there is literally no room for the gasoline to be picked up and mixed at the molecular level to a ratio that supports Combustion.
Have a think about how the petrol gets to the carb.

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #981 on: June 14, 2023, 08:31:08 AM »
A molecule can blend into a space partially or it can displace a molecule in a space but never can one molecule take up the same space as another.
Get your thinking cap on.


How would a carburetor with fully expanded air molecules taking up all space in the Venturi with their mass ever allow for space to pickup and mix gasoline to the correct ratio to support combustion. 

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #982 on: June 14, 2023, 08:36:39 AM »
A molecule can blend into a space partially or it can displace a molecule in a space but never can one molecule take up the same space as another.
Get your thinking cap on.


How would a carburetor with fully expanded air molecules taking up all space in the Venturi with their mass ever allow for space to pickup and mix gasoline to the correct ratio to support combustion.
It's called restriction.
You have no clue what you're arguing against with denpressure, you really don;t.
All you're doing is offering up stuff you see on the internet and think you have something. You have nothing.

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #983 on: June 14, 2023, 08:50:13 AM »
A molecule can blend into a space partially or it can displace a molecule in a space but never can one molecule take up the same space as another.
Get your thinking cap on.


How would a carburetor with fully expanded air molecules taking up all space in the Venturi with their mass ever allow for space to pickup and mix gasoline to the correct ratio to support combustion.
It's called restriction.
You have no clue what you're arguing against with denpressure, you really don;t.
All you're doing is offering up stuff you see on the internet and think you have something. You have nothing.


For the gasoline to ignite in the combustion chamber in an engine, there has to be a certain amount of gasoline molecules surrounded by air molecules in a ratio band. 

If the ratio is off, the gasoline will not burn.


In den pressure delusion where there is no space between your air molecules.  No space between the incoming mix of molecules that is around 78 percent diatomic nitrogen, 21 percent diatomic oxygen, with varying amounts of water and CO2, and some argon.  Where the incoming N2, O2, water vapor, CO2, and argon are expanding and taking up all space in the Venturi with their masses.  How is there room to pick up gasoline.  But not only pick up the gasoline but get the gasoline mixed in the right ratio with O2 to support combustion.


There is no space in den pressure delusion to pickup gasoline in a Venturi and mix it to the correct ratio. 

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #984 on: June 14, 2023, 09:51:53 AM »
A carburetor works because there is space between individual molecules with individual fixed sizes.

Quote

How Carburettor Works ( 3D Animation) in Suzuki GS150R Motorcycle






In den pressure delusion, carburetors would not create a combustible mixture with atmosphere and gasoline because the incoming expanding mass would take up all space in the Venturi,  The Venturi all ready filled completely with mass, and consequently no free space would have no room to pick up and mix the gasoline to the proper ratio for combustion.


?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #985 on: June 14, 2023, 09:59:21 AM »
Get back to me when you decide to pay attention because all you're doing is copying and pasting and no way can you read through that quickly and answer.
Let me know when you have the ability to pay attention without having your handy ready-made answers from authority.

Care to address the issues with you 2014 post?

It still has pressure but very little resistance to the feather due to the molecules being EXPANDED, meaning the mass of the feather can easily push through the friction under it because it is weak.

Pay attention to what's been said.

How do the expanded molecules filling all space with mass allow the mass of the feather to fall without the air and feather molecules occupying the same space at the same instant.  There is no space between your molecules to allow the feather with mass to slip by because all space is already filled with the mass of your expanded molecules. Your delusional molecules with mass are literally completely filling the space with mass.  There is no room for the feather to fall. 

If your molecules are taking up all free space with their mass, why don’t they act like a table? 

Think about your claim.


And you still haven’t addressed why the chamber having less pressure and a uniform pressure makes the feather fall faster.

In you den pressure delusion, the atmosphere is your prime mover.  The atmosphere is the medium of causing motion in DPD.  So less pressure, or reduced differential pressure should cause the feather to move slower.  Your model is contradictory.


“Resistance” offered by air only makes sense if it’s opposing the motion induced by gravity. 


And gravity explains why weight is always down towards center of earth.


And did you explain this?

When objects drop through the atmosphere, they are pulled by gravity. Not pushed down by atmosphere as seen by the low pressure area and wake left behind falling objects. And the swirling chaos left behind.

Again.  Up drafts, thermals, jet steam, winds, low pressure cells should have a great impact on weight if weight was driven by the chaotic atmosphere to ground.  Can you explain how DPD is transmitting weight to foundation in an area where there are large updrafts and thermals? 

Quote





https://aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml

It looks like thermals are doing the opposite, pushing air away from DPD “fountain”.


Weight driven by gravity explains why scales, especially large scales used in commerce and loading safety, can be calibrated and literally certified to be accurate to the pound despite the chaotic atmosphere. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 10:20:06 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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Mikey T.

  • 3546
  • +0/-1
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #986 on: June 14, 2023, 10:01:57 AM »
Still waiting on "why down" also, but you guys continue.  The vacuum semantics are fun.  The so called expanded molecule that's never been observed, theorized, mathematically tested, etc. 

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #987 on: June 14, 2023, 10:40:02 AM »
A molecule can blend into a space partially or it can displace a molecule in a space but never can one molecule take up the same space as another.
Get your thinking cap on.


How would a carburetor with fully expanded air molecules taking up all space in the Venturi with their mass ever allow for space to pickup and mix gasoline to the correct ratio to support combustion.
It's called restriction.
You have no clue what you're arguing against with denpressure, you really don;t.
All you're doing is offering up stuff you see on the internet and think you have something. You have nothing.


For the gasoline to ignite in the combustion chamber in an engine, there has to be a certain amount of gasoline molecules surrounded by air molecules in a ratio band. 

If the ratio is off, the gasoline will not burn.


In den pressure delusion where there is no space between your air molecules.  No space between the incoming mix of molecules that is around 78 percent diatomic nitrogen, 21 percent diatomic oxygen, with varying amounts of water and CO2, and some argon.  Where the incoming N2, O2, water vapor, CO2, and argon are expanding and taking up all space in the Venturi with their masses.  How is there room to pick up gasoline.  But not only pick up the gasoline but get the gasoline mixed in the right ratio with O2 to support combustion.


There is no space in den pressure delusion to pickup gasoline in a Venturi and mix it to the correct ratio.
Understand molecules in denpressure theory and you might get somewhere.
As it stands you're peeing against the wind.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #988 on: June 14, 2023, 10:46:04 AM »
Get back to me when you decide to pay attention because all you're doing is copying and pasting and no way can you read through that quickly and answer.
Let me know when you have the ability to pay attention without having your handy ready-made answers from authority.

Care to address the issues with you 2014 post?

It still has pressure but very little resistance to the feather due to the molecules being EXPANDED, meaning the mass of the feather can easily push through the friction under it because it is weak.

Pay attention to what's been said.

How do the expanded molecules filling all space with mass allow the mass of the feather to fall without the air and feather molecules occupying the same space at the same instant.  There is no space between your molecules to allow the feather with mass to slip by because all space is already filled with the mass of your expanded molecules. Your delusional molecules with mass are literally completely filling the space with mass.  There is no room for the feather to fall. 

If your molecules are taking up all free space with their mass, why don’t they act like a table? 

Think about your claim.


And you still haven’t addressed why the chamber having less pressure and a uniform pressure makes the feather fall faster.

In you den pressure delusion, the atmosphere is your prime mover.  The atmosphere is the medium of causing motion in DPD.  So less pressure, or reduced differential pressure should cause the feather to move slower.  Your model is contradictory.


“Resistance” offered by air only makes sense if it’s opposing the motion induced by gravity. 


And gravity explains why weight is always down towards center of earth.


And did you explain this?

When objects drop through the atmosphere, they are pulled by gravity. Not pushed down by atmosphere as seen by the low pressure area and wake left behind falling objects. And the swirling chaos left behind.

Again.  Up drafts, thermals, jet steam, winds, low pressure cells should have a great impact on weight if weight was driven by the chaotic atmosphere to ground.  Can you explain how DPD is transmitting weight to foundation in an area where there are large updrafts and thermals? 

Quote





https://aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0253.shtml

It looks like thermals are doing the opposite, pushing air away from DPD “fountain”.


Weight driven by gravity explains why scales, especially large scales used in commerce and loading safety, can be calibrated and literally certified to be accurate to the pound despite the chaotic atmosphere.
You're all over the place.
You're offering so much variation and have no clue why you're doing it against denpressure.
You really need to learn denpressure first.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30076
  • +3/-4
Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #989 on: June 14, 2023, 10:46:41 AM »
Still waiting on "why down" also, but you guys continue.  The vacuum semantics are fun.  The so called expanded molecule that's never been observed, theorized, mathematically tested, etc.
Has the free space been observed?