Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #870 on: June 06, 2023, 11:03:26 AM »
It really comes down to this.

Fluids move from high pressure to low pressure.

Higher pressure tends to equalize with low pressure.

Gas molecules migrate from high pressure to low pressure to equalize pressure.

Gas molecules will spread themselves out to equalize concentration.

Once pressure is equalized, gas molecules bounce around at random.  In random directions.


In den pressure delusional there is no force to overcome the random movement of gasses that try to equalize potential by equalizing pressure, and maximize the space between each molecule.  Without a force giving directionality such as gravity, DPD doesn’t explain the earth’s atmosphere nor weight of objects.  And DPD with the randomness of gas molecules that are really only motivated to move from high pressure to low pressure doesn’t explain why air molecules would force an object from low pressure to high pressure.  Move from low resistance to higher resistance.  And DPD doesn’t explain why there is that resistance, and why it increases as you approach earth’s surface. 

Sorry.



« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 11:09:05 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #871 on: June 06, 2023, 11:53:23 AM »
Thought about den pressure delusion some more.


I think first thing to work on is no space between molecules.

If there is no free space between molecules, how could there be a gas state of matter?  Everting would be a solid. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 03:40:48 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #872 on: June 06, 2023, 02:54:10 PM »
This one is a hard one to get out of for you, isn't it?
No, it is trivial to explain with mainstream science, but impossible for you (well the key problem is impossible for you).

I also now realise you were referring to a air filled balloon, not a helium filled one.

Again, in mainstream science with have a downwards force from gravity acting to pull objects down to Earth. But they also exist in a fluid, and this fluid, due to gravity, has a pressure gradient. This pressure gradient is due to the weight of the fluid and means there is a higher pressure below an object than above.
This means the fluid will exert an upwards force. For a simple cylinder standing vertically, with a height of h, the pressure difference between the top and bottom, assuming gravity and the fluid density is constant for that height difference, will be rho_f*g*h. If gravity or density changes significantly over this distance, you need to integrate.
And this acts on an area of A (the cross sectional area of the cylinder).
This means the upwards force will be rho_f*g*h*A=rho_f*g*V.
i.e. the upwards force will be equal in magnitude to the weight of the fluid displaced.
The downwards force due to gravity is simply rho_o*g*V.
So the net force downwards will be:
g*V*(rho_o-rho_f).

And this is again, where we can consider how significant something is.

If we have a ball of water with a density of roughly 1000 kg/m^3, (just as a baseline), in air with a density of roughly 1.3 kg/m^3; then the buoyant force contributes an upwards force 0.13% of the downwards force.
That is equivalent to a reduction in g of 0.13%, lowering it from ~9.8 m/s^2 to 9.79 m/s^2.
For a steel ball, with a density of roughly 8000 kg/m^3, the effect of the air is even smaller, 0.016%.

But now compare this to a balloon. The majority of the volume of the balloon comes from the air inside it, as does the majority of the mass. This means its density will be quite close to that of air. As a rough figure, it could be 1.5 kg/m^3. Now the density of air is 87% of the density of the balloon.
This means it will fall much more slowly.

And we also know that there is air resistance which can affect it.

But now lets switch to your nonsense.
Lets even ignore the fact you can't explain why the air pushes anything down and pretend you have an explanation.
Well, according to you, the only thing providing resistance is the air below.
But that means you have the air above pushing down, and the below air resisting, in equal proportion for all these objects.
So why do they fall differently?

But we would soon know which was which when we dropped both from a height, even chest or hip height.
And this is where the gravity illusion falls flat on its face
Wrong again.
This is where mainstream science can explain it trivially, yet you are entirely incapable of doing so.

And this is also why offering higher vantage points for varying dense masses is key to understanding that a ping pong ball will not drop the same as an iron ball of equal visual size. And so on.
No, as that is based primarily upon air resistance.

People won't bother to look into this
Likely because they already know that mainstream science explains it fine.

Even if you want to dismiss gravity as a narrative, it still explains the observations so these would still fit the narrative.
The only thing which doesn't fit is your dishonest portrayal.

If you honestly think it destroys gravity, why don't you explain how?
And remember, unlike you, we don't pretend that 1 thing is responsible for everything.
That means you can't just pretend the air isn't there.

But you can see the effect of any dense mass displacement of the atmosphere by simple evacuation of a plastic bottle or even that tanker rail car and so on and so on.
And notice how that crushes it inwards, it doesn't push it down. It doesn't magically make it weigh more.

As already explained with the simple experiment of taking a solid, air tight container, weighing it and then removing most of the air from it.
It weighs less.
Clearly demonstrating that this crush you are appealing to merely pushes inwards, not magically downwards.

If your fantasy was true, removing the air from the container would make it weight more.

Are you going to tell me gravity pulls it into a crush?
Again, we aren't dishonest by pretending gravity explains everything like you are for the air.
We recognise there are multiple forces at work.


ANy experiment shows it. It's just a simple case of people throwing aside gravity and paying attention to what they actually do see.
No, it doesn't.
The vast majority of experiments demonstrate your claims are BS.
There is not a single example you have provided where gravity does not produce the results observed, or where your fantasy can work.

Again, the most basic premise of how air works:
High pressure pushes to low pressure.
You even admitted this when you correctly stated that low pressure cannot overcome higher pressure.

So the simplest experiment to test gravity vs your BS is to take an object that gravity indicates should fall, like a brick, hold it up in the air, and release.
If gravity is true, the object will fall down, due to gravity pulling it down. It isn't the low pressure air above pushing it down, it is gravity.
If your delusional BS was true, the only forces acting on the object would be the air, with a low pressure above and a higher pressure below. This higher pressure below would push the object up, and there would be no way for the low pressure air above to overcome the higher pressure below and push the object down.

So we see with a very simple experiment, gravity works, and your delusional BS doesn't.

Another simple example is boiling substances, but this only tangentially involves gravity.

I've written it like this for a reason.
Because you need to wrap it up in so much convoluted BS to pretend your failed fantasy has any hope of matching reality?

It means the atmosphere is now acting like a spring trying to decompress against the dense mass but it depends on the foundation of the dense mass or the force holding it as to whether that decompressive force can actuate.
So you are saying the foundation provides a basis for the air to push against to remove that object, but the air above, lacking a foundation can't. So the object is pushed upwards.

It's pretty simply as to what's happening once you get your head around it.
Not with your nonsense.
It's pretty simple to see that your nonsense doesn't work, and that gravity works just fine.

Now all you have to do is understand the stacking system of layers and the breakdown of molecules within.
And how is anyone meant to do that when you refuse to explain how the atmosphere stacks.


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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #873 on: June 06, 2023, 02:55:30 PM »
It works because of the low pressure left in the tube which allows the mercury to be compressed up into that space with a lot less resistance to its liquid mass, meaning the mercury in the bowl that's displacing the atmosphere by its own dense mass can be decompressed against or compressed against depending on the agitation of the atmosphere due to fluctuations with central Earth energy movement (sun).
And we easily see that is pure BS, just by tilting the tube.
What remains constant is the height of the layer of mercury at the top of the tube above the layer in the dish.

So the question shouldn't be how does the air push the mercury up the tube. The question is why does it stop?

Again, it makes perfect sense with mainstream science using gravity with a pressure gradient in the mercury. But it makes absolutely no sense in your fantasy.

Because your fantasy isn't based upon reality. It is based upon wilful rejection of reality and trying to replace it with whatever BS you can think of.

I asked you to pay attention and your speed of answer shows me you took no notice of any of the above.
Perhaps you should stop telling others to pay attention and start paying attention yourself.

An object held in mid air with have the air above it at a lower pressure than the air below it.
This is an observable, measurable fact.
You want to claim the thing moving the object is air, and that there is no such thing as pull.
That means the only thing in your fantasy that can move the object is the air above.
That means that your fantasy requires the low pressure air above to push and overcome the high pressure air below to push the object down.

That is what your fantasy demands.
So how about you pay attention to this fact and try to honestly address it.

That's all that's required.
It clearly isn't. Because if it was you would have explained why this means the atmosphere stacks.

They simply don't bounce off each other with free space between them. Nothing would exist if this was the case.
Your wilful rejection of reality doesn't change it.
You cannot demonstrate any fault with the idea of free space. You just hate it.
And why do you hate it?
Because that way you can pretend a vacuum, which you falsely claim needs to be a perfect vacuum, cannot exist, so you can further dishonestly pretend that space is a perfect vacuum, so you can dishonestly pretend space isn't real, so you can pretend no rockets and satellites have been up there, so you can pretend we don't have countless photos from space clearly demonstrating Earth is round.

Ultimately, there is where your hatred of free space comes from.
You have no rational basis to argue against it.
Conversely, there is plenty that you are entirely incapable of explaining without free space, plenty of problems caused by you pretending there is no free space.


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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #874 on: June 06, 2023, 11:20:11 PM »
Gravity is what causes weight and weight to accelerate down.

Dense mass displacement of the atmosphere is what causes a moving foundation to resist that dense mass whilst offering a scale reading known to us as a weight measurement of a dense mass, minus the natural volume of that dense mass.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Gravity is the force that gives directionality to weight.

Gravity is fictional. It's fantasy. It is made up. It does not exist.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Air molecules that are actually gas molecules bounce off each other and will spread out / equalize their distance from one another in a closed container like a gas bottle.
How do they bounce off each other and spread out? What does spreading out mean?
Are you saying there are random molecules in absolute free space just banging into each other?
If so, explain and explain why.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
In the open top earth, gravity explains what force overrides gas molecules tendency to spread out as far as possible with their random bouncing to bunch up at the earth’s surface.
Why would they randomly bounce around and then just bunch up?



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Gravity gives the directionality of bunching air molecules down to the earth’s surface.

So tell me what gravity is. You say it gives directionality so explain.
Any copy and paste will be ignored so use your own words.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
In denpressure , DP, there is no gravity. No downward force to give directionality.

That's because gravity is fictional and is not required in denpressure. It's only required to keep a spinning globe and space alive in the minds of those who follow a mass-indoctrinated belief system. so it can explain the magic it offers.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
In DP where molecules expand, there is nothing that governs they can only expand up/down.
That's because they don't only expand up and down. That's in your mind because you take no notice.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Their motion is random and in DP, they seek to expand to fill up low pressure.
They don't seek to fill up low pressure they depressurise themselves to become low pressure against higher pressure based on molecular breakdown.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  With no gravity, your expanding molecules would expand towards the path of least resistance.
Gravity doesn't exist and is fictional.
But in denpressure denser molecules under force do expand into the least resistance by natural dense mass molecular selection.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  That means up into lower atmosphere.
Yep or higher atmosphere depending on the molecular breakdown in any particular layering in the stacking system.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
In your model the molecules would want to expand up into lower atmosphere until pressure is equalized.

Until they sit in a layer that befits their own dense mass of molecular breakdown.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Until the potential to expand is gone.
And this is why we have an ice dome, for that very reason.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
But it’s worse than that for DP.  Gas molecules if not flowing from high pressure to low pressure bounce around randomly.
No they don't. In denpressure every molecule is attached in so many variations and so many dense mass of layering.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  That means in the denpressure , there is noting to govern the springiness of your molecules would be only up or down. The springiness would be random and in all directions.
The springiness is not random in all directions it's in all directions by attachment and compression and decompression.
There's nothing random.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Sorry.  Gravity is the force that drives gas molecules that would normally try to equalize their distance from each other down to the surface of the earth.
Gravity does not exist and you absolutely cannot explain what it is yet you use it because you're basically trained to do so regardless of not knowing what it is.




Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Gravity is the force the bunches the atmosphere at earth’s surface and gravity is the force that gives weight the directionality of down towards earth.
It makes no sense but then again the spinning globe in a space vacuum makes no sense, yet mass adherence turns fantasy into a supposed reality for the many.
It's like a religion.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #875 on: June 06, 2023, 11:42:54 PM »

Dense mass displaces the atmospheric stacked layering that dense mass is forced into.

Ok.  Draw up how that holds up a column of mercury, and don’t use vacuum.


The atmospheric pressure above the mercury keeps a pressure back onto it by the mercury's own dense mass displacement of it.
Having a very weak pressure within the tube allows the mercury to be pushed into it to compress it easily and allows the mercury in the tube to make a reading against measurements on the tube.


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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #876 on: June 07, 2023, 12:03:04 AM »

Dense mass displaces the atmospheric stacked layering that dense mass is forced into.

Going to explain how a rock skips on water in den pressure?


Yep.
A force applied to the rock allows it to use the water as a foundation to bounce off for as long as the force applied stays higher than the resistance of the atmosphere being displaced by the dense mass of the rock minus the natural volume within.
The rock will continue to compress horizontal layers in the atmospheric stacking system as it skims below and above layering of water and atmospheric layers and being sprung off of them, creating a skim across the water for as long as the force or applied energy carries on.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #877 on: June 07, 2023, 12:04:40 AM »
Other things ignored.

Which has nothing to do with a simple experiment shows the ball is not pushed down by the air.  So there is a force of gravity acting on the ball. 

It's squeezed down against its own dense mass displacement of atmosphere.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #878 on: June 07, 2023, 12:06:13 AM »
It really comes down to this.

Fluids move from high pressure to low pressure.

Higher pressure tends to equalize with low pressure.

Gas molecules migrate from high pressure to low pressure to equalize pressure.

Gas molecules will spread themselves out to equalize concentration.

Once pressure is equalized, gas molecules bounce around at random.  In random directions.


In den pressure delusional there is no force to overcome the random movement of gasses that try to equalize potential by equalizing pressure, and maximize the space between each molecule.  Without a force giving directionality such as gravity, DPD doesn’t explain the earth’s atmosphere nor weight of objects.  And DPD with the randomness of gas molecules that are really only motivated to move from high pressure to low pressure doesn’t explain why air molecules would force an object from low pressure to high pressure.  Move from low resistance to higher resistance.  And DPD doesn’t explain why there is that resistance, and why it increases as you approach earth’s surface. 

Sorry.
It would help you to pay attention but that's not your modus operandi.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #879 on: June 07, 2023, 12:07:19 AM »
Thought about den pressure delusion some more.


I think first thing to work on is no space between molecules.

If there is no free space between molecules, how could there be a gas state of matter?  Everting would be a solid.
Is water solid?

What is your version of solid?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #880 on: June 07, 2023, 12:09:25 AM »
This one is a hard one to get out of for you, isn't it?
No, it is trivial to explain with mainstream science

Of course it's trivial for you to explain with mainstream ideals.
It's all on a plate to simply copy and paste.
It doesn't require much thought when it's plucked from a page or a book or even recited from verbal.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #881 on: June 07, 2023, 12:11:28 AM »
It works because of the low pressure left in the tube which allows the mercury to be compressed up into that space with a lot less resistance to its liquid mass, meaning the mercury in the bowl that's displacing the atmosphere by its own dense mass can be decompressed against or compressed against depending on the agitation of the atmosphere due to fluctuations with central Earth energy movement (sun).
And we easily see that is pure BS, just by tilting the tube.
What remains constant is the height of the layer of mercury at the top of the tube above the layer in the dish.

If you tilt the tube you're taking away the whole purpose of the barometer working from natural mercury displacement of atmosphere against low pressure.
You're now offering a tilt by adding your own energy.
What kind of answer is this?

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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #882 on: June 07, 2023, 05:01:27 AM »
Dense mass displacement of the atmosphere is what causes a moving foundation to resist
What is there to resist? The low pressure above can't be pushing it down.

It's only required to keep a spinning globe and space alive in the minds of those who follow a mass-indoctrinated belief system. so it can explain the magic it offers.
Stop repeating the same crap.
Gravity, or some substitute for it, is needed to explain the downwards force. To explain why an object goes towards higher pressure, in defiance of how air works.

And if your fantasy did work, it would work equally well for the globe.

The fact that gravity demonstrates your fantasy is garbage doesn't mean the RE needs it.

Until they sit in a layer that befits their own dense mass of molecular breakdown.
Why?
Would would they want to sit in layers?
If I get pressurised gas, like helium, why doesn't it sit in its compressed form in that layer? Why does it expand?

It makes no sense but then again the spinning globe in a space vacuum makes no sense
Yet no matter how many times you claim it makes no sense, you are unable to show a single fault with it.
As if what you have is a religion, and you are just rejecting reality at all costs.

The atmospheric pressure above the mercury keeps a pressure back onto it by the mercury's own dense mass displacement of it.
So why doesn't it push it up all the way?
Why does it basically go to the same height?

Of course it's trivial for you to explain with mainstream ideals.
It's all on a plate to simply copy and paste.
It doesn't require much thought when it's plucked from a page or a book or even recited from verbal.
Because mainstream science actually works, and has been built up over quite some time.
If you paid attention, you would realise it already addresses your BS.
But you are happy coming here and pretending your claims magically kill gravity.

If you tilt the tube you're taking away the whole purpose of the barometer working from natural mercury displacement of atmosphere against low pressure.
You're now offering a tilt by adding your own energy.
What kind of answer is this?
I would say it is a desperate non-answer, where you try to flee from the issue.
How does tilting the tube add energy?
If it is the act of moving it, then tilting it and tilting it back should result in it being higher.

Why should it always be that the height of mercury corresponds to the air pressure?
Why doesn't it just go all the way to the end of the tube?

Again, your nonsense can't explain it, but gravity does.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #883 on: June 07, 2023, 08:30:14 AM »

Dense mass displacement of the atmosphere is what causes a moving foundation to resist that dense mass whilst offering a scale reading known to us as a weight measurement of a dense mass, minus the natural volume of that dense mass.



Simple experiment that proves you full of BS.



We can see by the wake left by the ball it’s pulled down through the air. Note added.  And by the wake as it swirls in different directions we see the atmosphere isn’t always pushing straight down into a foundation.  The atmosphere and the movement of air is to chaotic to produce stable weight to a foundation.
What wake are you talking about?


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Why do I weight the same on my scale despite various conditions of the atmosphere
Because the scales are in the same conditions of atmosphere but sometimes you will actually have a more or less slightly different reading depending on the scale plate used.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
The ball is not pushed down by air.  With you admitting low pressure cannot pushing into higher pressure.
You're conveniently omitting dense mass displacement and applied energy.

In no way will a low pressure overcome a higher pressure without the lower pressure having applied energy added to it to displace it which then becomes an object with simply more dense mass to overcome higher pressure along with the displacement of the lower pressure above.
You need to pay attention but it seems you can't.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
It's impossible for something low pressure to overcome higher pressure, meaning a tank with low pressure will not suck/pull/drag anything in. It's a fallacy.


And your denpressure  requires gravity to overcome the resistance of falling into more dense atmosphere from lower pressure.  To give directionality of down.
No. It requires energy to force direction or a dense mass pushed into a direction. No fictional gravity needed.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  And to cause gas molecules to overcome their tendency to space out equally, and bunch up at the earth’s surface.
Bunch up?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
But let’s focus on your misconception that there can be no free space between gas molecules. 

One.  Especially for a square container where you try to say nothing is perfect, how can gas molecules take shape and expand to ensure there is absolute no free space in that container.
To expand and fill ever corner and imperfections on the surface of the container walls. Makes no sense.

Imagine a sink...a square sink if you like, full of bubbles. That's a very good analogy for you as long as you don't lose sight of it actually being an analogy.
Do you notice any space?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Two.  The fact air passing through a Venturi in a carburetor picks up gasoline and mixes it to the correct ratio for combustion shows there is space between air molecules.  Too much fuel the engine floods.  Too little fuel, the mixture will not burn.
If your DPD was true, the air molecules would expand when passing through the carburetor.  Taking up all free space. Leaving no room to pick up gasoline.  Leaving no room for mixing gasoline with air to achieve the correct ratio to sustain combustion.
It simply comes down to molecular breakdown and what set of molecules can overcome less dense ones.



Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Three.  By the amount and type of radiation that passes through the earth’s atmosphere, it shows space between air molecules.
Once again comes down to what molecules and density are being radiated and against what.
It comes down to energy transfer and by which means. Either through a material or agitation of the material internally as in, porosity.

This actually comes right back to your sieve. It's a similar setup.
It just comes down to the vibration and frequencies and what energetic force is within whatever dense mass.
So many variations.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  And why a solid blocks radiation better than a gas.
As above. The denser a material is the more resistant it is to certain molecular makeup.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
If the atmosphere has no free space between air molecules.  How does UV radiation make it to the surface of the earth to be simply blocked by my shirt?
 60 miles of atmosphere and UV rays still make it down to me to be simply blocked by a thin SOLID shirt.
It's just molecular breakdown through intense energy which creates different vibrational frequencies against your skin which acts as a dense mass friction that causes the molecules in your body to agitate in all kinds of different frequencies, all dependent on the dense masses within and to the skin surface.
Basically, you are being vibrated to a burn.
Place something between the energy and your skin and you massively slow down the agitation and frequencies.


There's a lot more to it but that's a simplicity.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
It’s because there is space between air molecules in the gasses of the atmosphere that isn’t there in the solid of my shirt.t
There is no space between molecules. To have space means nothing exists.
You're simply offering magic.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #884 on: June 07, 2023, 08:31:55 AM »
Dense mass displacement of the atmosphere is what causes a moving foundation to resist
What is there to resist? The low pressure above can't be pushing it down.

I'll let you ponder what I've already written.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 10:03:36 PM by sceptimatic »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #885 on: June 07, 2023, 08:42:13 AM »

Dense mass displacement of the atmosphere is what causes a moving foundation to resist that dense mass whilst offering a scale reading known to us as a weight measurement of a dense mass, minus the natural volume of that dense mass.



Simple experiment that proves you full of BS.



We can see by the wake left by the ball it’s pulled down through the air. Note added.  And by the wake as it swirls in different directions we see the atmosphere isn’t always pushing straight down into a foundation.  The atmosphere and the movement of air is to chaotic to produce stable weight to a foundation.

What wake are you talking about?



The swirling wake caused by drag as the ball is pulled through the atmosphere by gravity.  The little area of low pressure created behind the ball as it is pulled through the atmosphere.


Funny objects weigh more as atmosphere is evacuated from a chamber. As the force of buoyancy is decreased.

 Opposite of what den pressure delusion dictates.


Quote
Do You Weigh More Or Less In a Vacuum Chamber?







Weight is driven by gravity.  Not by atmosphere.  Especially in the summer where warm weather drives updrafts and thermals.  Lived by a large cornfield that experienced serious up drafts in the summer.  How is your “foundation” working when heat of the day causes up drafts and thermals driving the atmosphere up, and because of gravity my weight remained consistent and constant.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #886 on: June 07, 2023, 08:49:42 AM »

Once again comes down to what molecules and density are being radiated and against what.


Ok.  And if a UV ray hits a molecule or dust/ice in the atmosphere, it’s blocked.  If it makes it through the free space between molecules and dust/ice, it makes it to the earth’s surface. 


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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #887 on: June 07, 2023, 03:23:38 PM »
I'll let you ponder wat II've already written.
And I have. You have nothing to address the issue.
Again, high pressure pushes to low pressure.
That means the low pressure air can't push an object into higher pressure.
That means you need something other than the air.
That means your model doesn't work.

I understand, you have no way to address this, so you want to deflect at all costs.

In no way will a low pressure overcome a higher pressure without the lower pressure having applied energy added to it to displace it which then becomes an object with simply more dense mass to overcome higher pressure along with the displacement of the lower pressure above.
So the dense mass overcomes the higher pressure below, not the air above.
This is appealing to gravity.

Otherwise, you are in the same problem, the low pressure can't overcome higher pressure.
The air can't push it down.

You need to pay attention but it seems you can't.

As for adding energy, when you actually add energy to air, you pressurise it.
Lifting an object up doesn't add energy to the air, it adds it to the object, specifically gravitational potential energy. But that relies upon gravity, so you can't use it in your model.

As an example of how to actually add pressure: Get a tube closed at the bottom.
Then put an object inside the tube at the top, sealed around the edge. This creates an air tight region. Now push that object down, and you compress the air, adding energy to it. The more you compress it, the more energy is added and the harder you need to push.
And when released, the now much higher pressure air pushes the object up.

But if you remove the seal, the air moves around the object. So as you push it down, the air flows around and decompresses, so you aren't adding energy to it.

There is no space between molecules. To have space means nothing exists.
You're simply offering magic.
No, the one offering magic is you. Where low pressure air magically overcomes higher pressure below.
There is nothing magic about free space.
Again, just what is wrong with the space between molecules being empty?

Ok.  And if a UV ray hits a molecule or dust/ice in the atmosphere, it’s blocked.  If it makes it through the free space between molecules and dust/ice, it makes it to the earth’s surface.
This doesn't require free space.

UV rays can pass directly through molecules. Although it is a lot more complicated at that level as the UV photon can be described as larger than the molecule.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #888 on: June 07, 2023, 03:25:10 PM »

It's just molecular breakdown

UV radiation isn’t a molecule.  It’s electromagnetic radiation.



through intense energy which creates different vibrational frequencies against your skin which acts as a dense mass friction that causes the molecules in your body to agitate in all kinds of different frequencies,

Complete and utter bullshit. You should get a sun burn from the atmosphere under your shirt.  You should get a sun burn at night.


For a room, it shouldn’t take a special bulb to create UV for a tanning booth.  Windows Shouldn’t block specific UV wave lengths.


Quote

What is a UV Lamp?
A UV lamp artificially creates UV light so it can be put to various uses, such as sterilizing and purifying. UV lamps come in many different sizes and shapes, allowing them to be used for various purposes, such as detecting counterfeit money, inspecting artwork, or by a ticket agent checking your re-entry stamp at a concert.
A UV lamp is different from a regular lamp because it’s typically made of quartz instead of glass. Inside, there is an inert gas mixed with mercury. When the lamp is plugged in, electricity reacts with the mercury, and the lamp produces UV light. The type of UV light emitted depends on the pressure inside the lamp. Not all UV lamps produce the UV-C germ-killing wavelength.


If UV radiation in the atmosphere was from molecular break down in the atmosphere, there should be a new molecule. And a build up of those molecules.  The mercury in a UV lamp stays mercury.  It doesn’t undergo a nuclear reaction to become a different atom.


The earths atmosphere isn’t creating the UV light that is giving people sunburns.


Or maybe you do live in a cloud of mercury vapor.  That explains why you mad as a hatter.

Happy birthday to you…

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #889 on: June 07, 2023, 04:51:03 PM »

Ok.  And if a UV ray hits a molecule or dust/ice in the atmosphere, it’s blocked.  If it makes it through the free space between molecules and dust/ice, it makes it to the earth’s surface.
This doesn't require free space.

UV rays can pass directly through molecules. Although it is a lot more complicated at that level as the UV photon can be described as larger than the molecule.

Funny there isn’t better explanations.  Basically UVA doesn’t have the energy to knock out an electron in diatomic  oxygen to cause a reaction.  UVA doesn’t usually cause reactions, so the bulk of UVA passes mostly unattended. 

I still think if molecules can take up all space in den pressure delusion, they should block all UVA.  😂

That’s the beautiful of “fan fiction”.  You can make up any story you want.  Like, how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop.




Han shot first!


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #890 on: June 07, 2023, 08:21:44 PM »

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Two.  The fact air passing through a Venturi in a carburetor picks up gasoline and mixes it to the correct ratio for combustion shows there is space between air molecules.  Too much fuel the engine floods.  Too little fuel, the mixture will not burn.
If your DPD was true, the air molecules would expand when passing through the carburetor.  Taking up all free space. Leaving no room to pick up gasoline.  Leaving no room for mixing gasoline with air to achieve the correct ratio to sustain combustion.
It simply comes down to molecular breakdown and what set of molecules can overcome less dense ones.


You are the one not paying attention.

There is nothing to breakdown. For combustion to take place the air has to go in as air.  The gasoline has to go in as gasoline .  The air and gasoline have to mix and mix in the right ratio.  For the carburetor to draw gasoline into the incoming air, the air has to create a low pressure area in the Venturi. That means space between the molecules.

In you den pressure delusion where molecules expand to take up all free space, there would be no motive for the air to pick up the gasoline in the carburetor because your “gobstoppers” would literally take up all the space and expand in the low pressure of the Venturi. In your delusion where molecules expand, there would be no low pressure in the Venturi because it would be full of your expanding mater.  There would be no room to mix the gasoline with the air because the venturi would be full of mater from your expanded molecules.  Density doesn’t in this case mean a thing because gasoline molecules and air molecules cannot occupy the same space.  And if the Venturi is full of the delusional expanding air molecules (the Venturi literal filled of all free space of your expanding mater), there is no space to pickup gasoline molecules.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 08:24:26 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #891 on: June 07, 2023, 10:11:29 PM »


The swirling wake caused by drag as the ball is pulled through the atmosphere by gravity.  The little area of low pressure created behind the ball as it is pulled through the atmosphere.




Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Funny objects weigh more as atmosphere is evacuated from a chamber. As the force of buoyancy is decreased.

 Opposite of what den pressure delusion dictates.


Quote
Do You Weigh More Or Less In a Vacuum Chamber?




Pay more attention to what's been said.


Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Weight is driven by gravity.  Not by atmosphere.
Gravity does not exist except as a magical fictional/fantasy force that nobody can explain...and for good reason.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Especially in the summer where warm weather drives updrafts and thermals.
So your fictional gravity works better in the summer, does it?
Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
  Lived by a large cornfield that experienced serious up drafts in the summer.  How is your “foundation” working when heat of the day causes up drafts and thermals driving the atmosphere up, and because of gravity my weight remained consistent and constant.
Your measured weight is never constant. There are always fluctuations with everything.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #892 on: June 07, 2023, 10:14:54 PM »

Once again comes down to what molecules and density are being radiated and against what.


Ok.  And if a UV ray hits a molecule or dust/ice in the atmosphere, it’s blocked.  If it makes it through the free space between molecules and dust/ice, it makes it to the earth’s surface.
I've just explained it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #893 on: June 07, 2023, 10:16:31 PM »


UV rays can pass directly through molecules. Although it is a lot more complicated at that level as the UV photon can be described as larger than the molecule.
How about you explain what a UV ray actually is?

So first UV and why it's UV and why it's a ray.

Let's see what you have and let's see how we deal with it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #894 on: June 07, 2023, 10:19:17 PM »

It's just molecular breakdown

UV radiation isn’t a molecule.  It’s electromagnetic radiation.


Ok let's deal with it as I said to your brother in the last post.

Tell me in your own words what UV is and how it's radiated. In your own words.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #895 on: June 07, 2023, 10:21:21 PM »

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022
Two.  The fact air passing through a Venturi in a carburetor picks up gasoline and mixes it to the correct ratio for combustion shows there is space between air molecules.  Too much fuel the engine floods.  Too little fuel, the mixture will not burn.
If your DPD was true, the air molecules would expand when passing through the carburetor.  Taking up all free space. Leaving no room to pick up gasoline.  Leaving no room for mixing gasoline with air to achieve the correct ratio to sustain combustion.
It simply comes down to molecular breakdown and what set of molecules can overcome less dense ones.


You are the one not paying attention.

There is nothing to breakdown. For combustion to take place the air has to go in as air.  The gasoline has to go in as gasoline .  The air and gasoline have to mix and mix in the right ratio.  For the carburetor to draw gasoline into the incoming air, the air has to create a low pressure area in the Venturi. That means space between the molecules.

In you den pressure delusion where molecules expand to take up all free space, there would be no motive for the air to pick up the gasoline in the carburetor because your “gobstoppers” would literally take up all the space and expand in the low pressure of the Venturi. In your delusion where molecules expand, there would be no low pressure in the Venturi because it would be full of your expanding mater.  There would be no room to mix the gasoline with the air because the venturi would be full of mater from your expanded molecules.  Density doesn’t in this case mean a thing because gasoline molecules and air molecules cannot occupy the same space.  And if the Venturi is full of the delusional expanding air molecules (the Venturi literal filled of all free space of your expanding mater), there is no space to pickup gasoline molecules.
After all this time I honestly thought you'd grasp a little bit but you're still at the start line. I find that bizarre.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #896 on: June 08, 2023, 02:21:12 AM »

It's just molecular breakdown

UV radiation isn’t a molecule.  It’s electromagnetic radiation.


Ok let's deal with it as I said to your brother in the last post.

Tell me in your own words what UV is and how it's radiated. In your own words.

Not playing this games.

This is how a UV lamp works.

Quote

What is a UV Lamp?
A UV lamp artificially creates UV light so it can be put to various uses, such as sterilizing and purifying. UV lamps come in many different sizes and shapes, allowing them to be used for various purposes, such as detecting counterfeit money, inspecting artwork, or by a ticket agent checking your re-entry stamp at a concert.
A UV lamp is different from a regular lamp because it’s typically made of quartz instead of glass. Inside, there is an inert gas mixed with mercury. When the lamp is plugged in, electricity reacts with the mercury, and the lamp produces UV light. The type of UV light emitted depends on the pressure inside the lamp. Not all UV lamps produce the UV-C germ-killing wavelength.



Basically a successful experiment completed every time a lamp is used.


Now.  If you think how the stated source is wrong.  Show you can actually understand the stated source, the principles behind how UV lamp works, and then provided actual evidence if you think the statement is false.


With has nothing to do with you haven’t explained what specifically is “breaking down” in the atmosphere by what energy to create UV radiation. 


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #897 on: June 08, 2023, 03:22:12 AM »
Your measured weight is never constant. There are always fluctuations with everything.

No.  Not really.  My scale reads completely accurate and consistent to the pound.

Note added.  Even more for scales certified and calibrated for commerce.  Also for load and weight limit safety. Or scales used to count parts by weight so more useless lies and deflection by you.



Which has nothing to do with den pressure delusion cannot explain.

One, how it can produce a constant “transmission” to foundation when gas molecules move in random directions as seen in a gas bottle.  Especially in a chaotic atmosphere where updrafts and thermals are created.  In the context my weight is stable to the pond on a scale, and things like updrafts should have great impacts on my weight if DPD was responsible for weight.  Gravity and the action of gravity on my mass explains how my scale produces reliable, accurate, reproducible, and consistent results to the pound despite different atmospheric conditions.

Two.  You butchered buoyancy which is related to three.

Three.  If you weigh objects in a chamber with the atmosphere evacuated. As the chamber pressure is reduced increasingly below atmospheric, objects will weigh increasing more as the effect of buoyancy is reduced.  A closed air filled plastic bottle gains a significant amount of weight as the effects of buoyancy is removed.  The opposite effect dictated by DPD where less pressure should cause less weight.

Four


DPD has no explanation why a twenty times more dense steel ball falls at the same rate as a ping pong ball. When in DPD the steel ball should be falling twenty times faster.  Where in reality they accelerate at the same rate.  With history showing gravity is the dominate determination of acceleration.  With no correlation between rates objects drop and their densities.  And gravity correctly models drag and buoyancy.  Not DPD

And you have not provided any model when their densities should change their rates of acceleration.  And by how much. And you have not shown, Mr experience, by documented experiment your false assertions are true.

Five. As pressure is reduced increasingly below atmospheric pressure, and feather falls faster and faster.  A feather will fall increasingly faster until enough atmosphere is evacuated to the point air resistance is negligible where a coin, a feather, and a bowling bowl will all drop at the same rate.  In DPD, as atmosphere is removed things should fall slower.  Not faster.

Six. 

In DPD where you think molecules expand, there is no free space, and air resistance can never be made negligible because you think your expanded mater is taking up all free space.  Your expanding molecules would make it impossible for a carburetor to pick up gasoline in the incoming air via the Venturi for mixing to the right ratio for combustion.  Your expanding “gobstoppers” using expanding mater would fill all the free space in the Venturi with mater.  So.  In DPD there would be no low pressure created by the Venturi.  You stated in DPD molecules expand so air resistance is never negligible.  By molecules filling all available free space with mater. In DPD there would be simply no room to pickup the gasoline because a molecule of gas and a molecule of air cannot take up the same space.


Demonstrable reality shows air resistance can be made negligible.  A feather and a coin can drop at the same rate as enough atmosphere is evacuated from a chamber.  Contradicting DPD, a feather will fall faster as pressure is reduced below atmosphere.  Contradicting DPD, items will weigh more as pressure is reduced below atmosphere.  Expanding molecules with all free space taken with their mater would make the operation of a carburetor impossible as there needs to be free space between molecules to create a low pressure in the Venturi, room to pick up gasoline, and room to mix air a gas to the proper ratio for combustion.  DPD has failed to show a correlation between densities and drop rates. While willfully misrepresenting buoyancy.


And there still no evidence your atmosphere pushes things constantly to “foundation”

 

By the way gravity pulled the ball through the atmosphere.  Creating drag and low pressure behind it.  Showing the chaotic nature of atmosphere as the falling ball leaves a spiraling wake behind it.  With no indication the atmosphere pushed down from low pressure to high pressure to convey the ball down. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 03:34:29 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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JackBlack

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #898 on: June 08, 2023, 04:44:48 AM »
How about you explain what a UV ray actually is?
Why?
So you can run off on more pathetic deflections?
That comment wasn't even addressed to you. Yet you cling to it as a way out.

How about you stop with all these pathetic deflections and try explaining your model.
What causes the atmosphere to stack?
What causes the atmosphere to defy what even you have admitted to allow a low pressure to push and overcome a higher pressure?

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?
« Reply #899 on: June 08, 2023, 06:05:37 AM »
If dense mass is the reason objects fall, can you explain why if I hold a sheet of copy paper parallel to the ground and put a steel bolt on top of it, why does the steel bolt not push through the paper and continue to the ground.  The bolt is clearly denser.  How can the less dense molecules of paper overcome the denser molecules of steel.
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.