Experiment ideas to prove Denpressure?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 03:14:25 AM

How do you boil water in your vacuum?

Use a steam ejector or a vapor compressor to draw a vacuum on the chamber/ tank water is boiling in.

So the water is already boiling?

How do you boil water in your vacuum?

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 03:30:49 AM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022

Why would a ping pong ball and a steel ball the same size, the same shape, the same surface areas, with the same amount of drag, and having the same drag coefficient drop at different rates? 

Because they don't have the same displacement of atmosphere and nor do they have the same resistance to they dense mass in the fall.

But the reality is when you make air resistance negligible by shape or vacuum, they do drop are the same rate.






Den pressure is a flawed and failed model.


And you still can’t explain why a feather drops faster in a vacuum.

You literally can’t explain reality with den pressure.

I can't explain a feather in a vacuum but I've just explained it in low pressure.
A vacuum does not exist for me to explain so you'll need to offer something legit or stop using it as your argument.

How would you breathe if your diaphragm didn’t create a vacuum In relationship to atmospheric pressure?

Quote

Overview

The diaphragm, located below the lungs, is the major muscle of respiration. It is a large, dome-shaped muscle that contracts rhythmically and continually, and most of the time, involuntarily. Upon inhalation, the diaphragm contracts and flattens and the chest cavity enlarges. This contraction creates a vacuum, which pulls air into the lungs. Upon exhalation, the diaphragm relaxes and returns to its domelike shape, and air is forced out of the lungs.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/imagepages/19380.htm#:~:text=Upon%20inhalation%2C%20the%20diaphragm%20contracts,forced%20out%20of%20the%20lungs.

Yes.  I get atmosphere pushes into the lungs.  What you don’t get is a vacuum is created by the contraction of the diaphragm.  The diaphragm contracts, making more space between the gas molecules already in your lungs by expanding the area of your chest so more air molecules can flow in.

A low pressure is created, not a vacuum.

In the delusion of den pressure where you incorrectly think gas molecules expand and shirk with pressure.

This is where you take no notice of how it works.
When you get your head around peeled layers and what happens to those peeled layers then you might understand the expansion.
Until then you'll just have to go on as you have done for long enough. Don't worry, you're not alone.

  The diaphragm in you delusion would contract, the gas molecules would in your lungs expand, and in your delusion outside atmosphere would not have the potential to enter the lungs because the gas molecules there are expanding taking up all free space.  In your delusion, there is no space to draw in fresh air.

There's never space but there is molecular expansion by layer peeling causing much fewer molecules per area against what is exterior to that, plus the expansion itself adds to the reaction of the atmosphere.
Put your mind to work.

Then if gas molecules can expand in your delusion, how would diatomic oxygen ever fit / stay in red blood cells.


Den pressure is stupid.

Pay attention to what's been said and you wouldn't need to go over this.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 31, 2023, 06:49:30 AM

How would you breathe if your diaphragm didn’t create a vacuum In relationship to atmospheric pressure?

Quote

Overview

The diaphragm, located below the lungs, is the major muscle of respiration. It is a large, dome-shaped muscle that contracts rhythmically and continually, and most of the time, involuntarily. Upon inhalation, the diaphragm contracts and flattens and the chest cavity enlarges. This contraction creates a vacuum, which pulls air into the lungs. Upon exhalation, the diaphragm relaxes and returns to its domelike shape, and air is forced out of the lungs.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/imagepages/19380.htm#:~:text=Upon%20inhalation%2C%20the%20diaphragm%20contracts,forced%20out%20of%20the%20lungs.

Yes.  I get atmosphere pushes into the lungs.  What you don’t get is a vacuum is created by the contraction of the diaphragm.  The diaphragm contracts, making more space between the gas molecules already in your lungs by expanding the area of your chest so more air molecules can flow in.

In the delusion of den pressure where you incorrectly think gas molecules expand and shirk with pressure.  The diaphragm in you delusion would contract, the gas molecules would in your lungs expand, and in your delusion outside atmosphere would not have the potential to enter the lungs because the gas molecules there are expanding taking up all free space.  In your delusion, there is no space to draw in fresh air.

Then if gas molecules can expand in your delusion, how would diatomic oxygen ever fit / stay in red blood cells.


Den pressure is stupid.

DiahoreaOverFlow2022, that's a bit harsh.

Somebody just needs to point out that buoyancy is only made possible because of a force we call.............gravity. Without gravity, there can be no buoyancy. There can be no layering. There can be no falling and no terminal velocity. Gravity is the force responsible for all these things.

Otherwise Sceptimatic, explain why mountain climbers are not attracted to the sides of the high mountains made of dense rock they climb, and risk death from falling to the ground.

If you really want to know then start paying attention to what's been said about stacked layering and the dense mass displacement within those stacked layers.

I've just explained it to you so I have no need to explain this again.
Pay attention.

Ok,  and I explained I am a being living in roughly in one atmosphere and work with a process that is surround by an atmosphere.

So when I tell a coworker a system has pressure they know it will spray and eject contents at them if they try to opened the system with pressure.


If I tell a coworker a system is vented and drained, they know the system is equalized with the atmosphere and in a safe condition to work on.


If I tell a coworker a system has a vacuum, they know the system will draw atmosphere in if opened to atmosphere with a valve / vacuum breaker. And you may not want oxygen in the system.  Or that manways can’t be open / lifted off until vacuum is broken.  Without risk of injuring people and damaging equipment.

I can't explain a feather in a vacuum

I never posted in a perfect vacuum.

Vacuum is anything less than atmospheric pressure in a sealed vessel.  You can reduce the amount of gas molecules in a vessel with a vacuum pump so there is more space between the gas molecules than what is outside the vessel in normal atmosphere.  Why the air resistance can be made negligible in a vacuum chamber to the point the father will drop as fast as a coin or bowling ball.

but I've just explained it in low pressure.

So.  What you refuse to accept is in a vacuum chamber a vacuum can be drawn to the point the space between gas molecules becomes so great that air resistance becomes negligible.  And that point is before a perfect vacuum is established.  And that is seen when a feather drops faster, and then to the point the feather will drop as fast as a coin or bowling ball.  Because the amount of gas molecules is reduced and the space between then increased to the point air resistance becomes negligible.  Like a Mac Truck hitting just one misquote ever two miles. 

This is where you take no notice of how it works.
When you get your head around peeled layers and what happens to those peeled layers then you might understand the expansion.

Den pressure makes no sense for how lungs work.  In your delusion the expanding gas molecules and the laying of first in first out would make it impossible for fresh oxygen to travel down your nose, throat, trachea, into the lungs.

Then the air does this..

Your bronchial tubes lead to smaller air passages called bronchi, and then into bronchioles. The bronchioles end in tiny air sacs called alveoli, where oxygen is transferred from the inhaled air to your blood. Alveoli look like clusters of small round fruits.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/8960-lungs#:~:text=When%20you%20inhale%20through%20your,other%20to%20your%20right%20lung.

The expanding molecules in your delusion would make it impossible to get oxygen to your Alveoli to inject the O2 to your blood.  And the layering would be a first in first out effect.  Fresh air would never make it to the blood in the den pressure delusion.


In reality where molecules are a fixed sized and expanding your chest to create a vacuum that allows increased space between molecules makes perfect sense how fresh air is drawn into the body all the way to the bloodstream.  And why the air we exhale is “16.4% of oxygen and 4.4% of carbon dioxide.” The remainder mostly nitrogen

https://byjus.com/biology/composition-gases-breathe/#:~:text=When%20we%20exhale%2C%20the%20composition,and%204.4%25%20of%20carbon%20dioxide.

If you really want to know then start paying attention

I’ve been paying attention.

You don’t understand vacuum.  And why a system with pressure will spray out contents and why my coworkers understand when I say at a vacuum it will draw in atmosphere.

You have no explanation of the reality a feather drops faster in a partial vacuum.

You have no explanation why a ping pong ball and steel ball of the same dimensions drop at the same rate.


You have no explanation why a steel ball twenty times the density of a ping pong ball isn’t dropping at a rate twenty times faster than the ping pong ball.

Experimentation shows the rate of 9.8 m/s^2 with drag accurately models objects’ drop rates.  Why a steel ball and a ping pong ball of the same dimensions and drag coefficient drop at the same rate. 


You have shown no correlation between density and the rates objects drop at.


Your delusion of expanding gas molecules and layering is an unrealistic model for how oxygen gets to the blood stream.  Molecules of fixed sizes with a vacuum created as space of the lungs increases so space between molecules increases to draw in fresh oxygen explains how fresh oxygen travels into our throat, trachea, into the lungs, down ever decreasing bronchial tubes until the clusters of alveoli for injecting O2 into the blood. 

Note added.   At say 1 mile above sea level.  The pressure of the atmosphere is less because of fewer molecules of oxygen farther apart.  How would it be possible in the den pressure delusion to breath in expanded air molecules to get them through the alveoli to the blood.  How can the body in the den pressure delusion expel expanded CO2 out through the lungs?  The CO2 be mixed with the O2 to be exhaled? 

I've just explained it to you

No, you just asserted your same lies showing you hate the meaning of words.

How do you boil water in your vacuum?

Because in reality (unlike your fantasy), there are attractive forces and free space, the boiling point of a substance is related to the ambient pressure. It is merely the temperature at which the vapour pressure is equal to the ambient pressure.
That is why you can boil water at room temperature in a vacuum; and it is why a pressure cooker can allow the water to reach a higher temperature.

A low pressure is created, not a vacuum.

Repeating the same lie wont help you.
It is a vacuum.
Your hatred of that word will not change it.

There's never space but there is molecular expansion by layer peeling

Repeating your delusional fantasy wont help.
All the evidence shows there is free space.

If you really want to know then start paying attention to what's been said about stacked layering and the dense mass displacement within those stacked layers.

Except that wont help, unless your goal is to show your model is garbage.

I also notice you entirely ignored my post.
Was it because of this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 03:14:25 AM

It's impossible for something low pressure to overcome higher pressure, meaning a tank with low pressure will not suck/pull/drag anything in. It's a fallacy.

Thanks for admitting your model is complete garbage, a fallacy, impossible.
Because that is exactly what you demand from your model. The low pressure air above overcoming the higher pressure air below to push an object down.

Where you have admitted your model is BS and can NEVER work?
Effectively admitting that you need a force in addition to the air to explain why things fall?

Quote from: Smoke Machine on May 31, 2023, 07:46:46 AM

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 31, 2023, 06:49:30 AM

How would you breathe if your diaphragm didn’t create a vacuum In relationship to atmospheric pressure?

Quote

Overview

The diaphragm, located below the lungs, is the major muscle of respiration. It is a large, dome-shaped muscle that contracts rhythmically and continually, and most of the time, involuntarily. Upon inhalation, the diaphragm contracts and flattens and the chest cavity enlarges. This contraction creates a vacuum, which pulls air into the lungs. Upon exhalation, the diaphragm relaxes and returns to its domelike shape, and air is forced out of the lungs.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/imagepages/19380.htm#:~:text=Upon%20inhalation%2C%20the%20diaphragm%20contracts,forced%20out%20of%20the%20lungs.

Yes.  I get atmosphere pushes into the lungs.  What you don’t get is a vacuum is created by the contraction of the diaphragm.  The diaphragm contracts, making more space between the gas molecules already in your lungs by expanding the area of your chest so more air molecules can flow in.

In the delusion of den pressure where you incorrectly think gas molecules expand and shirk with pressure.  The diaphragm in you delusion would contract, the gas molecules would in your lungs expand, and in your delusion outside atmosphere would not have the potential to enter the lungs because the gas molecules there are expanding taking up all free space.  In your delusion, there is no space to draw in fresh air.

Then if gas molecules can expand in your delusion, how would diatomic oxygen ever fit / stay in red blood cells.


Den pressure is stupid.

DiahoreaOverFlow2022, that's a bit harsh.

Somebody just needs to point out that buoyancy is only made possible because of a force we call.............gravity. Without gravity, there can be no buoyancy. There can be no layering. There can be no falling and no terminal velocity. Gravity is the force responsible for all these things.

Otherwise Sceptimatic, explain why mountain climbers are not attracted to the sides of the high mountains made of dense rock they climb, and risk death from falling to the ground.

If you really want to know then start paying attention to what's been said about stacked layering and the dense mass displacement within those stacked layers.

Stacked layering doesn't cut it. Neither does dense mass displacement. Your theory still doesn't explain why everything on Earth is attracted to the Earth.

You are trying to employ science or at least pseudoscience, to try to explain a faith based model inside your mind. I'm sure it works just dandy in your imagination, but outside your mind, in the physical world, it is at the mercy of physics.

It's ok if you choose to prioritise your inside world over your outside world, just so long as you yourself can acknowledge the difference. We all live in the dream world to some extent, maybe some more than others. The danger is in letting the dream world, your imagination, run wild and get the better of you.

When I was 14 years old, as my parents were separating, I conceived a fantasy story and feverishly for two weeks made it into a comic book. Elements of the story defied physics, but that wasn't the point. The point is, creating and immersing myself in that fantasy, was my way of saying farewell to my childhood and my innocence, in the face of a traumatic event. It was recognition my life would never be the same again. I clouldn't deal with the reality around me. Those elements in the story that defied physics had other meanings.

Sceptimatic, I feel that if you're honest with yourself, you are doing something similar, and have been doing it for a very long time. Maybe it's time you paused to have a look at yourself. You'll probably publicly say I'm wrong, but deep down in your quiet moments, you know I'm right.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 08:54:15 AM

I've just explained it to you so I have no need to explain this again.
Pay attention.

Ok,  and I explained I am a being living in roughly in one atmosphere and work with a process that is surround by an atmosphere.

It doesn't matter about you saying you live in 1 atmosphere. You're altering pressures aside from it and adding or taking away from it.
It's always a high versus low change. That's how it all works.

So when I tell a coworker a system has pressure they know it will spray and eject contents at them if they try to opened the system with pressure.

Because the pressure built up inside the vessel is much higher at the release valve or lid overcomes the atmosphere pushing against it and is pushed away (compressed) as the built-up pressure within the vessel decompresses against it, so naturally you're going to get an explosion, just as you'd get an implosion of the pressure inside the vessel was lower than the external pressure when a breach happens.

If I tell a coworker a system is vented and drained, they know the system is equalized with the atmosphere and in a safe condition to work on.

Yes and the atmosphere outside and within is virtually equalised so no gain explosion/implosion wise, just fluctuation.

If I tell a coworker a system has a vacuum, they know the system will draw atmosphere in if opened to atmosphere with a valve / vacuum breaker.
 And you may not want oxygen in the system.  Or that manways can’t be open / lifted off until vacuum is broken.  Without risk of injuring people and damaging equipment.

You're dealing with high pressure and low pressure and that's that.
You know this but you somehow don't want to admit it for whatever reason. Maybe because you prefer vacuum for lower pressure but you know vacuum means something else in the fictional space stories so using it for what you offer is pointless and means nothing.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 08:57:38 AM

I can't explain a feather in a vacuum

I never posted in a perfect vacuum.

I never mentioned a perfect vacuum, I mentioned a vacuum does not exist and it's low pressure against high pressure.

Vacuum is anything less than atmospheric pressure in a sealed vessel.

No it's not.
If a vacuum is used for nothingness in fictional space then you have to stick to low pressure and leave a vacuum for the fairy story-type books.

  You can reduce the amount of gas molecules in a vessel with a vacuum pump so there is more space between the gas molecules than what is outside the vessel in normal atmosphere.

There isn't more space there is merely less molecular make-up/molecular layering by peeling meaning the molecules become less dense because some of them are pushed out by their own decompression when there is an energy allowing them to do so. In this case, it's a pump that pushes away the external atmospheric molecular pressure of denser molecules at this point.

  Why the air resistance can be made negligible in a vacuum chamber to the point the father will drop as fast as a coin or bowling ball.

Nobody would even dare attempt to drop their father in a low-pressure chamber just to find out if he drops as fast as a coin of a bowling ball.

Ok on a serious note, don't bother offering me the big so-called vacuum chamber with Bri Cox and co because It's utter nonsense.
Secondly, the feather and coin in the glass tube are under lower pressure only and the feather will likely have an addition of something at the quill end.
But even aside from that, once you offer lower pressure you offer low resistance to any dense mass and at a very short height you will be at pains to argue the difference in drop.

The entire system in these cases are playing a game of dupe the layman with a pretence of equal fall speed.

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 08:57:38 AM

but I've just explained it in low pressure.

So.  What you refuse to accept is in a vacuum chamber a vacuum can be drawn to the point the space between gas molecules becomes so great that air resistance becomes negligible.

If you paid attention you wouldn't need to be asking this all of the time.
Read what I said above.

And that point is before a perfect vacuum is established.

There will never be a perfect vacuum, there will only ever be lower pressure. Vacuums do not exist.

And that is seen when a feather drops faster, and then to the point the feather will drop as fast as a coin or bowling ball.

As above.

Because the amount of gas molecules is reduced and the space between then increased to the point air resistance becomes negligible.

As above.

  Like a Mac Truck hitting just one misquote ever two miles.

There's been loads of misquotes in this entire topic so which ones do you want the Mac truck to wallop? 

On a serious note, if a Mac truck hits a mosquito it has a massive impact on the mosquito, and it's not negligible to that but it still leaves a mark on the truck and where do we finish with the negligible argument?
If a hitchhiker gets the truck to stop and take onboard an extra passenger does that have no issue with the wear and tear and fuel consumption?

You see, this is what we're really talking about when we say everything is pertinent and nothing is negligible on the whole grand scheme of life and Earth.

It doesn't matter about you saying you live in 1 atmosphere.

Where I work, it does mater

Again.  If I tell a coworker the system has pressure I have communicated the system has greater pressure than atmosphere so if they open the system it’s contents like hydrochloric acid will spray out and / or eject parts of the system if they start to unbolt equipment.

If I tell a coworker the system is vented and drained, they know the system is equalized with the atmosphere. 

If I tell a coworker a system is at vacuum they know if the system is opened it will draw in atmosphere.  Vacuum needs to be broken before trying to remove a man way cover.

Because the pressure built up inside the vessel is much higher

Than atmosphere.

When I tell a coworker a system has pressure they know the pressure is greater than atmosphere.  They know the system will spray out its contents if a valve to atmosphere is open.

Yes and the atmosphere outside and within is virtually equalised so no gain explosion/implosion wise, just fluctuation.

Venting and draining is how you make systems safe to work on.  You open them up to atmosphere so they become equalized with the atmosphere roughly at one atmosphere.

You're dealing with high pressure and low pressure and that's that.

No.  If I tell a coworker a system is at vacuum they know if they open a valve to atmosphere the system will draw in atmosphere.  If a still is operating at a vacuum, opening it up to atmosphere will break the vacuum and start raising the boiling point in the system. Ruining the system efficiency.  It may surge the vapor compressor drawing the vacuum and damage it.

If I open a steam condenser to atmosphere while the steam turbine is working, it’s called a loss of vacuum causality in the navy.  The efficiency of the steam plant goes to crap from not being able to maintain a vacuum.

If I place a vacuum on a chamber and draw out enough air molecules, while also increasing the space between the air molecules, I can make air resistance negligible.  I can do this to the point feathers, coins, and bowling balls drop at the same rate. It does this before a perfect vacuum is established.







Which kills den pressure. 

 I never mentioned a perfect vacuum, I mentioned a vacuum does not exist and it's low pressure against high pressure.

Again.  If I tell a coworker a system has pressure they know it can spray its contents out.  They know if there is a liquid in the system they know it will have a higher boiling point than if at atmosphere.


If I tell a coworker a system has vacuum it will draw in atmosphere. They know the liquid in the system will have a lower boiling point than if at atmosphere.

There isn't more space there is

Yes there is.  Why you can draw a vacuum in a chamber and make a feather fall faster.  Why a liquid has a lower boiling point under a vacuum.  And why the boiling point gets less as vacuum increases. 

On a serious note, if a Mac truck hits a mosquito it has a massive impact on the mosquito,

But it doesn’t slow the truck down like the remaining air molecules don’t slow a feather falling in a great enough vacuum.

Den pressure makes no sense for how lungs work.  In your delusion the expanding gas molecules and the laying of first in first out would make it impossible for fresh oxygen to travel down your nose, throat, trachea, into the lungs.

Are we going into a biology lesson now?

Let's make this simple.
You breathe in and exhale.
What are you really doing?

You create a low pressure to allow higher pressure to enter your lungs and your lungs expand to fill the low pressure within your cavity which expands with your lungs to compress the external atmosphere which then compresses back to crush your chest back and also your lungs to expel the circulated gases back to the atmosphere and off we go again.

Don't come back with more copy and paste on this because you're arguing from books instead of yourself and you have no clue.

Now sceptimatic. Stop changing the subject.




Why isn’t the steel ball easily 20 times more dense than the ping pong ball falling at a rate 20 times faster than the ping pong ball.

Why do the ping pong ball and the steel ball fall at the same rate.

Why is there no correlation between densities and the rate objects drop.

Why is it accurate to model all objects drop at 9.8 m/s^2 with drag taken in account, and not density.


If you want to model how long it will take to drop a ball from a certain height in den pressure, how do you get units of time from the units density and pressure? 

You den model is incomplete and delusional. 

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on May 31, 2023, 10:24:59 AM

Den pressure makes no sense for how lungs work.  In your delusion the expanding gas molecules and the laying of first in first out would make it impossible for fresh oxygen to travel down your nose, throat, trachea, into the lungs.

Are we going into a biology lesson now?

Let's make this simple.
You breathe in and exhale.
What are you really doing?

You create a low pressure to allow higher pressure to enter your lungs and your lungs expand to fill the low pressure within your cavity which expands with your lungs to compress the external atmosphere which then compresses back to crush your chest back and also your lungs to expel the circulated gases back to the atmosphere and off we go again.

Don't come back with more copy and paste on this because you're arguing from books instead of yourself and you have no clue.

Which in no way addresses this…

Den pressure makes no sense for how lungs work.  In your delusion the expanding gas molecules and the laying of first in first out would make it impossible for fresh oxygen to travel down your nose, throat, trachea, into the lungs.

Then the air does this..

Your bronchial tubes lead to smaller air passages called bronchi, and then into bronchioles. The bronchioles end in tiny air sacs called alveoli, where oxygen is transferred from the inhaled air to your blood. Alveoli look like clusters of small round fruits.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/8960-lungs#:~:text=When%20you%20inhale%20through%20your,other%20to%20your%20right%20lung.

The expanding molecules in your delusion would make it impossible to get oxygen to your Alveoli to inject the O2 to your blood.  And the layering would be a first in first out effect.  Fresh air would never make it to the blood in the den pressure delusion.


In reality where molecules are a fixed sized and expanding your chest to create a vacuum that allows increased space between molecules makes perfect sense how fresh air is drawn into the body all the way to the bloodstream.  And why the air we exhale is “16.4% of oxygen and 4.4% of carbon dioxide.” The remainder mostly nitrogen

https://byjus.com/biology/composition-gases-breathe/#:~:text=When%20we%20exhale%2C%20the%20composition,and%204.4%25%20of%20carbon%20dioxide.

external atmosphere which then compresses back to crush your chest back and also your lungs to expel the circulated gases back to the atmosphere and off we go again.

My chest with me relaxed is open to atmosphere and not being “crushed”.  Through my nose and relaxed with my lungs open to atmosphere nothing is happening because my lungs are equalized with atmosphere. The only way I can bring in air is have my body do the work.

Stacked layering doesn't cut it. Neither does dense mass displacement. Your theory still doesn't explain why everything on Earth is attracted to the Earth.

They do cut it but they don't for you because your whole mindset is based on a spinning globe and space and everything told to you about it, so naturally you will go with that flow and I get it. You're among billions who haven't shaken their severe indoctrination in many aspects like this.

You are trying to employ science or at least pseudoscience, to try to explain a faith based model inside your mind. I'm sure it works just dandy in your imagination, but outside your mind, in the physical world, it is at the mercy of physics.

My model may well be that and it may have a different kind of setup to what I envisage. But then again I'm not in the realm of the ultra-small scale of Earth's happenings and can only go on what I experiment with and actually use in real-time which offers me a lot of info to at least be on the right lines and absolutely nails a global spinning story to the garbage bin it belongs in terms of it being called scientific fact but is out there as a great effort for science fiction.
Now you can argue for your spinning ball but if you're honest you absolutely know you're only arguing among and with the masses based on adhering to a storyline telling you your observations are different to what you actually do perceive.

It is what it is.

It's ok if you choose to prioritise your inside world over your outside world, just so long as you yourself can acknowledge the difference. We all live in the dream world to some extent, maybe some more than others. The danger is in letting the dream world, your imagination, run wild and get the better of you.

Whatever Earth I believe we may be part of in my mind is a whole lot closer to reality than the one that's been hammered into children's minds at school for long enough.

When I was 14 years old, as my parents were separating, I conceived a fantasy story and feverishly for two weeks made it into a comic book. Elements of the story defied physics, but that wasn't the point. The point is, creating and immersing myself in that fantasy, was my way of saying farewell to my childhood and my innocence, in the face of a traumatic event. It was recognition my life would never be the same again. I clouldn't deal with the reality around me. Those elements in the story that defied physics had other meanings.

You can't deal with the reality around you right now. You can deal with the fantasy sold to you about what you are told is your reality. Or maybe you can't and this is why you're fishing.

Sceptimatic, I feel that if you're honest with yourself, you are doing something similar, and have been doing it for a very long time. Maybe it's time you paused to have a look at yourself. You'll probably publicly say I'm wrong, but deep down in your quiet moments, you know I'm right.

I believe I'm on the right track. It doesn't matter to me what you believe in or what you think of what I believe in.
All I say to anyone is, put your mind to work and see where it takes you.

Why isn’t the steel ball easily 20 times more dense than the ping pong ball falling at a rate 20 times faster than the ping pong ball.

It probably would if it had the height in which to do it.

My chest with me relaxed is open to atmosphere and not being “crushed”.

You're always being crushed at all times so get your head around that first.

  Through my nose and relaxed with my lungs open to atmosphere nothing is happening because my lungs are equalized with atmosphere.

They're never fully equalised with the atmosphere, it's always a change of higher and lower pressures.

The only way I can bring in air is have my body do the work.

Yep but you need to know how and why at the basics.

Offering up your copy and paste offers you no traction with me.
Get to the basics from your own head.

You're always being crushed at all times so get your head around that first.

How.  Relaxed with my air ways open, my lungs are equalized with the atmosphere.

It probably would if it had the height in which to do it.

Prove it.

And no way addresses this post.

Now sceptimatic. Stop changing the subject.




Why isn’t the steel ball easily 20 times more dense than the ping pong ball falling at a rate 20 times faster than the ping pong ball.

Why do the ping pong ball and the steel ball fall at the same rate.

Why is there no correlation between densities and the rate objects drop.

Why is it accurate to model all objects drop at 9.8 m/s^2 with drag taken in account, and not density.


If you want to model how long it will take to drop a ball from a certain height in den pressure, how do you get units of time from the units density and pressure? 

You den model is incomplete and delusional. 

You still aren't responding. Why?
Is it because you know you have no chance after this, where you refuted your own garbage:

Quote from: sceptimatic on May 31, 2023, 03:14:25 AM

It's impossible for something low pressure to overcome higher pressure, meaning a tank with low pressure will not suck/pull/drag anything in. It's a fallacy.

Thanks for admitting your model is complete garbage, a fallacy, impossible.
Because that is exactly what you demand from your model. The low pressure air above overcoming the higher pressure air below to push an object down.

You're dealing with high pressure and low pressure and that's that.
You know this but you somehow don't want to admit it for whatever reason.

They are dealing with vacuum, and that's that.
You know this, but you don't want to admit it for a very obvious reason: So you can pretend vacuums don't exist, so you can pretend space doesn't exist.
Remember, if we rejected English, and clung to your delusional fantasy then space isn't a vacuum, just an extremely low pressure system.
So that wont help you.

Maybe because you prefer vacuum for lower pressure but you know vacuum means something else in the fictional space stories

You mean your fictional space stories? The strawmen that you have made?
As opposed to the real space stories, where space is an incredibly low pressure, but still not a perfect vacuum.

It gets even better if you try going out to interstellar space, and even better if you go to intergalactic space.

I never mentioned a perfect vacuum

You have repeatedly.
You just lie and pretend all vacuums need to be perfect or they aren't a vacuum.

If a vacuum is used for nothingness in fictional space

Why should we give a damn about how it is used in your fiction?
In real space, it is basically nothing, because of how low the pressure is.

Nobody would even dare attempt to drop their father in a low-pressure chamber just to find out if he drops as fast as a coin of a bowling ball.

Plenty of people have.
This includes large vacuum chambers at dedicated facilities, and much smaller ones which are basically just a pipe with a cap on each end, and a valve to let the air out (with a vacuum pump to do so).

The entire system in these cases are playing a game of dupe the layman

That does sum you up quite well.
Trying to dupe the layman with what vacuum means so you can lie and pretend space can't be real.

On a serious note, if a Mac truck hits a mosquito it has a massive impact on the mosquito, and it's not negligible to that but it still leaves a mark on the truck and where do we finish with the negligible argument?

This is where the mosquito analogy fails.
Because in reality, the gas molecule bounces off.

But notice how this mosquito does basically nothing to the truck. Yet you claim this is what is magically pushing the truck down. And that it somehow manages to push the truck and feather the same. But then magically in normal atmospheric conditions, you have these mosquitos resists the feather much better than the truck.

This makes no sense.
If these mosquitos are so easily able to stop the feather, then they should be able to push it down easily as well. They should find it incredibly difficult to push down the truck.

Let's make this simple.
You breathe in and exhale.
What are you really doing?

According to you, you compress the air in your lungs, causing some to squeeze out. But how much?
According to reality, you increase the pressure in your lungs by reducing the free space, which causes the molecules (which are always moving around and mixing).

The big difference is the free space and the molecules mixing around.

They do cut it but they don't for you because your whole mindset is based on a spinning globe and space and everything told to you about it, so naturally you will go with that flow and I get it.

Again, pure BS.
They don't cut it, because it makes no sense. You even agreed. The low pressure above CANNOT push an object down into the higher pressure below.
You need something else.
We accept gravity, because it actually works.

and absolutely nails a global spinning story to the garbage bin it belongs

Your irrational hatred of the globe does nothing to it.
It doesn't magically make it garbage or non-scientific.
You can't demonstrate a single fault with it.

Now you can argue for your spinning ball but if you're honest

If we are honest, we can appeal to our own observations, which match the spinning globe, and not your garbage.

Whatever Earth I believe we may be part of in my mind is a whole lot closer to reality than the one that's been hammered into children's minds at school for long enough.

No, it isn't.
The garbage in your mind is much much further away from reality.

You can't deal with the reality around you right now. You can deal with the fantasy sold to you about what you are told is your reality. Or maybe you can't and this is why you're fishing.

You seem to be projecting again.
You are the one clinging to a fantasy.
You are the one entirely incapable of explaining pretty much anything with your garbage.
You are the one entirely incapable of showing a single fault with the opposing model.
You are the one entirely incapable of defending your garbage.

All I say to anyone is, put your mind to work and see where it takes you.

And it leads to questions you refuse to answer because you know it shows your model is garbage.

What you really want is people to not put their mind to work at all, and instead to just hate reality and reject it and accept your BS.

It probably would if it had the height in which to do it.

No, it doesn't. If it was accelerating 20 times as fast, that would be easily visible.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on June 01, 2023, 03:09:01 AM

My chest with me relaxed is open to atmosphere and not being “crushed”.

You're always being crushed at all times so get your head around that first.

If atmosphere crushes denser objects always.  Why do denser objects fall through atmosphere?

26 pages to the thread and not one experiment outlined to show how one can witness and document den pressure acting in accordance to den pressure? 

And shows gravity still holds for accurately modeling real world events.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on May 31, 2023, 05:18:22 PM

Stacked layering doesn't cut it. Neither does dense mass displacement. Your theory still doesn't explain why everything on Earth is attracted to the Earth.

They do cut it but they don't for you because your whole mindset is based on a spinning globe and space and everything told to you about it, so naturally you will go with that flow and I get it. You're among billions who haven't shaken their severe indoctrination in many aspects like this.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

You are trying to employ science or at least pseudoscience, to try to explain a faith based model inside your mind. I'm sure it works just dandy in your imagination, but outside your mind, in the physical world, it is at the mercy of physics.

My model may well be that and it may have a different kind of setup to what I envisage. But then again I'm not in the realm of the ultra-small scale of Earth's happenings and can only go on what I experiment with and actually use in real-time which offers me a lot of info to at least be on the right lines and absolutely nails a global spinning story to the garbage bin it belongs in terms of it being called scientific fact but is out there as a great effort for science fiction.
Now you can argue for your spinning ball but if you're honest you absolutely know you're only arguing among and with the masses based on adhering to a storyline telling you your observations are different to what you actually do perceive.

It is what it is.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

It's ok if you choose to prioritise your inside world over your outside world, just so long as you yourself can acknowledge the difference. We all live in the dream world to some extent, maybe some more than others. The danger is in letting the dream world, your imagination, run wild and get the better of you.

Whatever Earth I believe we may be part of in my mind is a whole lot closer to reality than the one that's been hammered into children's minds at school for long enough.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

When I was 14 years old, as my parents were separating, I conceived a fantasy story and feverishly for two weeks made it into a comic book. Elements of the story defied physics, but that wasn't the point. The point is, creating and immersing myself in that fantasy, was my way of saying farewell to my childhood and my innocence, in the face of a traumatic event. It was recognition my life would never be the same again. I clouldn't deal with the reality around me. Those elements in the story that defied physics had other meanings.

You can't deal with the reality around you right now. You can deal with the fantasy sold to you about what you are told is your reality. Or maybe you can't and this is why you're fishing.

Quote from: Smoke Machine

Sceptimatic, I feel that if you're honest with yourself, you are doing something similar, and have been doing it for a very long time. Maybe it's time you paused to have a look at yourself. You'll probably publicly say I'm wrong, but deep down in your quiet moments, you know I'm right.

I believe I'm on the right track. It doesn't matter to me what you believe in or what you think of what I believe in.
All I say to anyone is, put your mind to work and see where it takes you.

Communicating in this manner (on a forum) has it's disadvantages. That's why i ocassionally go fishing. Btw, I can deal with my current reality just fine.

I get it. You're an individual determined to walk your own walk.  But you're afraid of being sucked into the herd instinct - to follow the rest of the sheep.   If none of this matters to you, why even bother replying? Aren't we all here, comparing beliefs anyway, in the form of our comments?

Our comments betray our beliefs all the time. Surely you must know you will receive feedback if you broadcast your beliefs? You must be looking for feedback, and others beliefs and what they think of your beliefs, must matter to you.

Quote from: sceptimatic on June 01, 2023, 03:16:25 AM

You're always being crushed at all times so get your head around that first.

How.  Relaxed with my air ways open, my lungs are equalized with the atmosphere.

They are never equalised.

You still aren't responding. Why?

Responding to what? Your bile and nastiness, because that's all you offer.
Try calming yourself down and dealing with one thing at a time without the nastiness.

By all means, carry on doing it but don't start moaning when I don't respond.