What is a woman?

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #480 on: June 08, 2023, 08:06:18 AM »


I think after all the scans, blood tests, hours in gym assessments to assess blood oxygen levels, muscle density and lung capacity, heís hoping theyíll find him a girl he has a chance to crush at ping-pong.
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JackBlack

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #481 on: June 08, 2023, 03:07:38 PM »
"Based it on ability"?
Yes
The well documented upper limit ability of the sexes...
Which makes it sexism, not equity.
Equity would make it about the individual.
If you don't care about the individual, why care about sex?

But your pink image is the same as the original gif.
No it isn't.
It is highlighting your sexism.
Where instead of treating them as individuals, you treat them as their sex.
You don't give a damn about the short guy, because "guys are taller than girls", so they get nothing, while you give the girl everything.

Obvious lie.
Your rejection of the explanation certainly is.

Just explain how your proposed system would work for a single event in a single competition.  This should be easy.  If you canít do that, you really have nothing.
Or how about you go back and read what I have said, and accept the comparison to weight divisions first?

Itís the only conclusion that makes sense Jacky
Only if you view the world through an incredibly sexism mindset.
Just like FEers thinking the only conclusion that makes sense is a massive global conspiracy trying to hide the  truth.

your first question was answered above
No, it wasn't.

Again, you are ignoring the idea of putting women in with men of similar ability. Not having men and women of vastly different ability compete together.

"If female teams already exist, wahts problem adding lower class males?"
If you are going to pretend to quote, do it honestly, rather than just making up crap.

The upper elilte pro female niw competing against manymany more amatuer male leagues.
With XYZ$ amount of sponsorship and tv time divided amongst them.
Sounds like a reason to get rid of weight classes in boxing.
Too many leagues.

No ones treating ALL men as better.
Yes, they are.
As soon as you are saying females need to compete only with females to give them a chance of winning, you are saying all men are better.

Accepting overlapping bell curves, and aiming for equity, means accepting that some men should be competing with some women.

The point thats avoiding you is - AT THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL, THE DIVISONS ARE THERE FOR EQUITBALE COMPETITON AND EQUAL PAY AT THE TOP LEVELS.
As clearly demonstrated, it isn't equity. It is sexism.
And if you are going for equal pay, that is even more of an argument against such sexism.


Im noticing he raised the girl higher.
Instwad of mafching head heights.
I'm noticing that you are avoiding the real issue.
Who cares if the head height of the girl is equal or higher than the tall guy.
The real issue is how you want to treat them based upon their sex.

Common problem with victim complex people is they never see equity/equalizers as eqqualizers.
You mean the common problem with people supporting such blatant discrimination hate when their discrimination is called out, and look for whatever dishonest BS they can to pretend it isn't bad.
Any time there is a zero sum game, you cannot raise one group without putting down another.
And if you were doing it based upon equity, the sex of the person wouldn't matter.

Because men are stronger per kg than women. Mens bone and muscle density is higher. 1kg male muscle is physically stronger than 1kg of female muscle. Same with bones. A 65kg male will dominate all 65kg women.
Do you have a source for that?
Not merely that men have more muscles, but that somehow male muscle is stronger than female muscle?

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #482 on: June 08, 2023, 04:02:11 PM »

Again, if female teams already exist, and people watch them, why would having a team with similar ability but also including males be such a problem?



Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #483 on: June 08, 2023, 04:05:09 PM »
"All men vs ALL women"


Nonsense and context.
Again - bell curves.
We re talking about where the upper competitive limits of the female form vs the male form.
The female 1% ranks where against the male YXZ% in terms of "abolitytodothesportthinggood".

We re not nonsensically vomparing the WNTIRE pink curve agains tthe ENTIRE blue curve.

IN CONTEXT - PROfessional level, if men is bigger on average then all men professional are bigger than women.

Do we need venn diageams

« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 04:14:48 PM by Themightykabool »

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #484 on: June 08, 2023, 04:13:11 PM »
i didn't get to finishthis from earlier.
re-ordered for context:



Who cares if the head height of the girl is equal or higher than the tall guy.
The real issue is how you want to treat them based upon their sex.

You don't give a damn about the short guy, because "guys are taller than girls", so they get nothing, while you give the girl everything.

Any time there is a zero sum game, you cannot raise one group without putting down another.
And if you were doing it based upon equity, the sex of the person wouldn't matter.







No ones treating ALL men as better.
Yes, they are.
As soon as you are saying females need to compete only with females to give them a chance of winning, you are saying all men are better.

Again, you are ignoring the idea of putting women in with men of similar ability. Not having men and women of vastly different ability compete together.

Accepting overlapping bell curves, and aiming for equity, means accepting that some [MORE] men should [WOULD] be competing with some [YES, SOME] women.

Because men are stronger per kg than women. Mens bone and muscle density is higher. 1kg male muscle is physically stronger than 1kg of female muscle. Same with bones. A 65kg male will dominate all 65kg women.
Do you have a source for that?
Not merely that men have more muscles, but that somehow male muscle is stronger than female muscle?


yes
there have been many previous posts.

this one posted earlier
https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/





so let's look at the hypothenical green-ladies vs purple-males.
the "professional" female competitor population being the farthest right vertical marker.
look at the sheer population difference seen if that green population were to compete with similar "abilitied" males.

if visually this is misleading?
feel free to provide a bell curve with actual numbers based on the 10% from dukeU.
my excel abilites to do good math is not there.



http://www.shodor.org/media/N/G/E/wMDUwNGE3MmM5N2RjMzlhMTM3ODNlNzkzYzIzYTE.jpg

http://www.shodor.org/media/N/j/g/2NzExZTczM2E3Mjk5Y2U3NjYyNmYzMDIxYjNkMGM.jpg

http://www.shodor.org/media/M/m/M/yYmFjNjJkYmQ1MjQyOGRlOTQ5OGEzZDY2OTYzYjI.jpg

http://www.shodor.org/interactivate/discussions/TheBellCurve/
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 03:55:55 AM by Themightykabool »

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #485 on: June 08, 2023, 04:42:55 PM »

Just explain how your proposed system would work for a single event in a single competition.  This should be easy.  If you canít do that, you really have nothing.
Or how about you go back and read what I have said, and accept the comparison to weight divisions first?

So you want the 100m Sprint divided into weight categories, with heavyweights being the top tier?

If not that, then fucking what?

If you canít even attempt to explain one very straightforward event, you must know your idea is shit. 

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #486 on: June 08, 2023, 10:46:47 PM »
Do you have a source for that?
Not merely that men have more muscles, but that somehow male muscle is stronger than female muscle?
First three that came up, there are loads more strudies


1 - "Male skeletal muscles are generally faster and have higher maximum power output than female muscles. Conversely, during repeated contractions, female muscles are generally more fatigue resistant and recover faster. "

"there are major differences between female and male skeletal muscles, including differences in energy metabolism, fiber type composition, and contractile speed. Generally, male muscles have a higher capacity for anaerobic metabolism and generate a higher maximum power output than female muscles"

2 - this one is a bit general, but.
"Previous studies have identified over 3,000 genes that are differentially expressed in male and female skeletal muscle."
3 - Here is the real summery for you
"Women athletes are known to be less strong and powerful than equally trained men, muscle strength of women indeed, is typically reported in the range of 40 to 75% of that of men"
Other studies confirmed that gender differences in strength may be accounted to LBM but reported that the differences in power performances were still apparent regardless of body composition, and muscle mass. These results support the idea that differences between genders in anaerobic power and jumping capacity could not be accounted for by differences in lean body mass only.

Despite no significant differences between genders in muscle fibers number were reported, a qualitative difference in muscle tissue, such as a higher concentration of glycolytic enzymes and greater proportion of fast type muscle fibers, may explain the disparity in strength. Glycolytic capacity, as well as the muscle area occupied by fast type fibers, indeed, have been reported to be greater in male than in female individuals"
When adjusted for body mass, all performance variables were significantly different between male and female groups. After adjusting for the muscle thickness of PEC, ANCOVA revealed a significant difference between genders for bench press 1RM and for bench press throw power"

This last one is interesting. Its TL:DR, is essentially, men and women are just built differently. Down to the type way the muscles grow. A women's typical body has more fat and less muscle than a man at the same level of exercise and training. If a women wants to beat me at sprinting, she will have to train for years to catch up to a typical guy who spends his days playing games on the couch.
1 - https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.00098.2004#:~:text=Male%20skeletal%20muscles%20are%20generally,fatigue%20resistant%20and%20recover%20faster.

2 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4285578/

3 - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7930971/

What bugs me is that this science has been known for ages. Men and women being built differently is not a new discovery. We have known this forever.
Yet we are now at a point where some people believe a women and a man are only different because they identify differently, and you can change this by simply identifying in another way.
This is literally a statement against fact, and fairly obvious logic.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 11:28:26 PM by MaNaeSWolf »
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #487 on: June 08, 2023, 10:56:45 PM »
Quote
Again, you are ignoring the idea of putting women in with men of similar ability. Not having men and women of vastly different ability compete together.
How do you actually do this? Like, practically do this.

Are you saying that everyone that runs a 100m in 11 seconds gets to run together only? And then if someone runs it in 10,59 seconds, they get disqualified?

Who the hell cares for a race where everyone crosses the finish line at the same time? This is the most desperate reach for a participation trophy I have ever heard.

No one cares how many people on earth can run a 11 second 100m sprint. We want to know who is the fastest. And we know women are not going to beat men, so we want to know who is the fastest women too.

I could not give half a shit about all the people who can cross the finish line 3 seconds after him or her. 
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #488 on: June 09, 2023, 12:30:35 AM »

Jacky.

There are no weight classes in football but at every level it is physical, the sprinting and endurance factors alone would mean none of these women would be in a team that got to play at Wembley, because a minor league menís team would beat them.

A mixed team would comprise the very best of women with some just out of teen boys or past their prime players and it wouldnít get anywhere, no one would watch it because itís the best of nothing
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #489 on: June 09, 2023, 04:15:54 AM »
Jackie boy be mad.  :P
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JackBlack

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #490 on: June 09, 2023, 05:18:45 AM »
"All men vs ALL women"
Nonsense and context.
Yes, it is nonsense, but it is what you are trying to pretend it is.
That all men are better than all women, so women need a division free from men to allow them to compete and win.

As soon as you admit the bell curves overlap, then the equitable option is to have people compete based upon their ability which would mean men and women of similar ability compete together.

Otherwise, stop pretending you give a damn about equity.

So you want the 100m Sprint divided into weight categories, with heavyweights being the top tier?
I didn't say that. I had already appealed to muscle mass before. But this was for you to address the issues you keep trying to deflect from, your arguments against such lower divisions applying quite comparable to boxing.

First three that came up, there are loads more strudies
1 - Focusing on mice, with a very small sample size, and doesn't discuss strength vs weight.
2 - Also initially focusing on mice, but it does get to humans eventually. And notice they key quote:
"The difference in CSA seems likely to be due to the overall greater mass in males compared with females since the increase in CSA is nearly proportional to the differences in mass."
But importantly, they also don't look at per unit mass.
One of their references, which primarily discusses gene expression also has this:
"There did not appear to be a sex difference in physical fitnessóisometric knee extension strength and maximal oxygen consumption were similar in the men and women when expressed per kg lean body mass or lean tissue mass of the legs." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2148100/)
3 - Also states:
"On the contrary, several studies have reported that strength per unit of cross sectional area or lean body mass, do not substantially differ between sexes [7,8,9]. The main factors accounting for gender differences in maximal strength, indeed, have been identified as the muscle mass [6,7]."
Including directly before the section you quoted. Yet you chose not to include it. Why? So you can pretend the science is settled, rather than some studies reporting the opposite of your claim?
The study itself also has inconsistent results, where it has high performance in 1RMSQ strongly correlated with high performance in 1RMBP. But then we see 1RMSQ has no significant difference between males and females after accounting for lean body mass, while 1RMBP does.
They also highlight limitations addressing some of this, without even highlighting all of them.

This last one is interesting. Its TL:DR, is essentially, men and women are just built differently. Down to the type way the muscles grow. A women's typical body has more fat and less muscle than a man at the same level of exercise and training. If a women wants to beat me at sprinting, she will have to train for years to catch up to a typical guy who spends his days playing games on the couch.
Except that wasn't what it said at all.
Instead, focusing on athletes where men were heavier and taller and trained more and had trained for longer; then the men and women had similar fat masses (men slightly more, but errors overlap), and significantly more lean body mass and muscle mass.

There is nothing in there comparing it to a guy who spends his days playing games on the couch.


What bugs me is that this science has been known for ages. Men and women being built differently is not a new discovery.
Except, it isn't anywhere near as simple as you make it.
It was assumed men and women were drastically different.
Not based upon science, but based upon sexim.
Then studies, which typically just looked at averages and small sample sizes, often looking at a single parameter are used to justify it.
And they often just look at male vs female, without controlling for all the cofounding variables.

Are you saying that everyone that runs a 100m in 11 seconds gets to run together only? And then if someone runs it in 10,59 seconds, they get disqualified?
You mean like boxing, were if you weigh 0.1 g too much, you get disqualified?

There are no weight classes in football but at every level it is physical, the sprinting and endurance factors alone would mean none of these women would be in a team that got to play at Wembley, because a minor league menís team would beat them.

A mixed team would comprise the very best of women with some just out of teen boys or past their prime players and it wouldnít get anywhere, no one would watch it because itís the best of nothing
So you are saying the best of women are the best of nothing?

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #491 on: June 09, 2023, 05:39:53 AM »


So you want the 100m Sprint divided into weight categories, with heavyweights being the top tier?
I didn't say that. I had already appealed to muscle mass before. But this was for you to address the issues you keep trying to deflect from, your arguments against such lower divisions applying quite comparable to boxing.

So, itís just like boxing divisions, except itís not like boxing divisions? 

Vague hand waves about muscle mass (something others have been pointing out to you) is not a fucking explanation as to how it should work.   Just pathetic.

Explain your idea for the one example weíve had for pages and pages- the Olympic 100m sprint.  How exactly do you want to divide that event by ability?


Are you saying that everyone that runs a 100m in 11 seconds gets to run together only? And then if someone runs it in 10,59 seconds, they get disqualified?
You mean like boxing, were if you weigh 0.1 g too much, you get disqualified?

Oh look, itís just like boxing divisions again.  LOL.

No, moron.  These are completely different.  One is disqualified by stepping on scales, the other is disqualified based on their result

So you are saying the best of women are the best of nothing?

They are the best women.  Durr.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 06:29:03 AM by Unconvinced »

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #492 on: June 09, 2023, 06:25:37 AM »
Quote
Except that wasn't what it said at all.


Quote
Including directly before the section you quoted. Yet you chose not to include it. Why? So you can pretend the science is settled, rather than some studies reporting the opposite of your claim?
I expected you to maybe read the whole thing, and not just the parts you liked. The part you say I conveniently skipped over was saying how there are various conflicting studies saying different things meaning that more studies (like the one that you read) are required. This is the introduction after all. But if you where not sure, they write it out for you after that
"Therefore, the aim of this study was to compare male vs. female athletes in strength and power performance relative to body mass, lean body mass, and muscle architecture."

And then if you actually read their conclusion you will find this

In conclusion, the results of the present investigation indicate that significant differences in strength and power relative to body mass, lean body mass, and muscle thickness exist between male and female strength and power athletes.
Meaning a male is stronger once you account for lean body mass and muscle thickness.

But the other things is, men and women DONT have the same body compositions.
Your basically saying that women would be just as strong as men if only they had the same muscles composition, growth and type that only men have. Or in other words, women would be just as strong as men if they stopped being women and started being more like men.

Quote
You mean like boxing, were if you weigh 0.1 g too much, you get disqualified?
I said ability, thats weight. I never said ability = weight
If its in weight classes women would not feature, again.

You want to break people in some "ability" grouping.

HOW DO YOU PRACTICALLY DO THAT?!

Im still waiting for your solution in how you will get about 40-60% of the 14 000 Olympic athletes to be women.





If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #493 on: June 09, 2023, 06:35:36 AM »
"All men vs ALL women"
Nonsense and context.
Yes, it is nonsense, but it is what you are trying to pretend it is.
That all men are better than all women, so women need a division free from men to allow them to compete and win.

As soon as you admit the bell curves overlap, then the equitable option is to have people compete based upon their ability which would mean men and women of similar ability compete together.

Otherwise, stop pretending you give a damn about equity.



What an amazing misrepresentation of point of view.

Ill address them point by point:
1.  At the professional level.

2.  At the pro level.

3. At the

4.  Pro level


I need oneof those rainbow scrolling text banners

Also
Can someone crop one of the bell curves to JUST show the top 1%females against the resulting %of males who now qualify for "professional level"?







Instead, focusing on athletes where men were heavier and taller and trained more and had trained for longer; then the men and women had similar fat masses (men slightly more, but errors overlap), and significantly more lean body mass and muscle mass.

So you are saying the best of women are the best of nothing?

ohoo
looks like you already admit not ALL men but at the upper level...
cool
thanks for misrepresenting instead of wasting people's time.

yes
they will have an "equal" shot at being the best in an amatuer league.
they will have devoted their full time to fitness to bank up muscle and bone mass for their retirement years.
but they will not be paid for it.
the best of the no non exsitent semi nonprofessional league.



next up in olympic sports:

the 100m dash for people who have the best ability to run between <10, but not faster than 10sec.


followed by
the 100m dash for people who have the best ability to run between 10-10.25, but not faster than 10.25sec.

followed by the the 10.25-10.5
followed by the 10.5-10.75
followed by the 10.75-11sec dashes

each with their respective disvision will have qualfier, semi, and finals and then a ceremony for each division.

buckle up
it's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong day.




« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 07:09:38 AM by Themightykabool »

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #494 on: June 09, 2023, 07:15:56 AM »

Quote
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on Today at 08:30:35
There are no weight classes in football but at every level it is physical, the sprinting and endurance factors alone would mean none of these women would be in a team that got to play at Wembley, because a minor league menís team would beat them.

A mixed team would comprise the very best of women with some just out of teen boys or past their prime players and it wouldnít get anywhere, no one would watch it because itís the best of nothing

Quote
Quote from a moron
So you are saying the best of women are the best of nothing?

No you moron, Iím saying that at the moment the best women playing against other top women is worth watching and is the best of women, add a few fading footballers and 16 year olds after magically finding they are ďof the same abilityĒ, who the fuck is going to watch that?
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Suicide is dangerous- other philosophies are available-#Life is great.
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JackBlack

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Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #495 on: June 09, 2023, 03:17:44 PM »
So, itís just like boxing divisions, except itís not like boxing divisions?
It is not identical to it.

No, moron.  These are completely different.
No, they aren't.
Both are disqualified for doing something that would increase their performance.
Both are disqualified for being too good.

They are the best women.  Durr.
I assume that was directed at Jura?

I expected you to maybe read the whole thing, and not just the parts you liked. The part you say I conveniently skipped over was saying how there are various conflicting studies saying different things meaning that more studies (like the one that you read) are required.
Yet you chose to quote that.
And now appeal to the conclusion.
Have you bothered reading the study, or just skimming through it to find the parts you like?

In conclusion, the results of the present investigation indicate that significant differences in strength and power relative to body mass, lean body mass, and muscle thickness exist between male and female strength and power athletes.
Meaning a male is stronger once you account for lean body mass and muscle thickness.
No, that isn't what it means. That is a very simple view.
First notice how they also appealed to body mass, not simply lean body mass and muscle thickness.

What you seem to be ignoring is that they were looking at (or at least reporting) 6 different items. Once you account for lean body mass, only 2 remain statistically significant.
In other words, the other become insignificant and you do not have a statistically significant difference between males and females once you account for lean body mass.
And due to other stats, this causes a significant issue as they claim in both males and females that 2 of these items are very strongly correlated, yet only one remains significantly difference between the sexes after accounting for lean body mass.

There are also other great quotes you appear to have skimmed past:
"A significant difference in squat and deadlift 1RM adjusted for muscle thickness of vastus lateralis, without a significant difference when adjusted for LBM, may support the idea that man and women used different movement strategies during weight-bearing exercises"
"In addition, significant correlations between the fascicle length of vastus lateralis and the squat and deadlift 1RMs, were found in men only. This difference may be due to different movement strategies between the sexes [38] that may influence the contribution of the different muscle groups to the final performance."
"A limitation of the present investigation is that lifting technique and muscle activation were not assessed and differences between men and women cannot be accounted for lifting strategies. Another limitation may consist in the use of a single muscle thickness to adjust the 1RM of multi-joint exercises. In addition, strength and conditioning programs followed by the participants in the years preceding this study, likely differ in several variables (e.g., number of upper and lower body exercises, training frequency, periodization model, etc.), and may have deeply influenced both performance and muscle morphology."

So it is no where near as clear as you want to make it.
The science is still very much undecided.

But the other things is, men and women DONT have the same body compositions.
Not all men have the same body composition. Not all women have the same body compositions.
You are basically that all men will be assumed to have the body composition of elite male athletes so they should be excluded from events with females.

You want to break people in some "ability" grouping.
HOW DO YOU PRACTICALLY DO THAT?!
I already provided an example of muscle mass.
If that is too hard, use their results.

Im still waiting for your solution in how you will get about 40-60% of the 14 000 Olympic athletes to be women.
Why should they be?
Why must it be 40-60% being women?
What is wrong with 25% or 75% being women?

Again, that is sexism talking.

What an amazing misrepresentation of point of view.
You mean an honest representation, pointing out the blatant sexism and hypocrisy of your view.


Ill address them point by point:
You mean as an almost inchorerent scattering of text where it isn't clear what you are trying to address?

How about you start with the fact that you want to treat all males as a monolithic unit that should be given the exact same treatment regardless of individual ability, while wanting to treat females as separate from males, even though you admit there is overlap; and how this is NOT providing equitable treatment?

Can someone crop one of the bell curves to JUST show the top 1%females against the resulting %of males who now qualify for "professional level"?
You are yet to provide any actual bell curves to do that with.
You can happily make up whatever BS you want. But that BS wont help you.

they will have an "equal" shot at being the best in an amatuer league.
they will have devoted their full time to fitness to bank up muscle and bone mass for their retirement years.
but they will not be paid for it.
Which can be said about plenty of people, not just women.

next up in olympic sports:
Again, it will come down to how many divisions there are.
There are already multiple divisions for boxing. Why not other sports?

You are basically complaining that there is more sport to watch.

No you moron, Iím saying that at the moment the best women playing against other top women is worth watching and is the best of women, add a few fading footballers and 16 year olds after magically finding they are ďof the same abilityĒ, who the fuck is going to watch that?
I'm not the moron here.
You are the one who literally said "it's the best of nothing".
You are the one saying you don't want to watch it, just because there are some men.

Just what is your issue with watching it?
What is it that you find so horrible that you can no longer bring yourself to watch it?
Is it the men competing there? The best of their ability bracket?
I guess you hate the Paralympics as well and think no one should watch it, as they aren't necessarily the best men or best women.
Likewise, I guess you hate most boxing divisions, as most aren't the best there either.

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Space Cowgirl

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I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #497 on: June 09, 2023, 04:33:27 PM »
So, itís just like boxing divisions, except itís not like boxing divisions?
It is not identical to it.

SO FUCKING EXPLAIN IT THEN!

HOW DOES YOUR BRILLIANT IDEA ACTUALLY WORK FOR THE OLYMPIC 100m SPRINT?

Why are you completely unable to explain your own idea for the world's most basic event?

Quote
No, moron.  These are completely different.
No, they aren't.
Both are disqualified for doing something that would increase their performance.
Both are disqualified for being too good.

OMG.  One affects performance the other is the performance.  You can't be this dense can you?

Quote
They are the best women.  Durr.
I assume that was directed at Jura?

No, you.  Idiot.


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JackBlack

  • 20331
Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #498 on: June 09, 2023, 05:12:02 PM »
SO FUCKING EXPLAIN IT THEN!
Try paying attention, as I already did.
The simplest implementation is to break them up into brackets based upon their times.
If you want it more based upon ability rather than result, break them up into brackets based upon muscle mass, or muscle mass to weight ratio.

OMG.  One affects performance the other is the performance.
Which doesn't make it completely different.
Either way, an athlete trains to be better, and then gets excluded.
It is comparable.

No, you.  Idiot.
I'm not the idiot who seems incapable of reading. That would be you.
Jura was the one saying they are the best of nothing, not me.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #499 on: June 09, 2023, 05:35:06 PM »
SO FUCKING EXPLAIN IT THEN!
Try paying attention, as I already did.
The simplest implementation is to break them up into brackets based upon their times.
If you want it more based upon ability rather than result, break them up into brackets based upon muscle mass, or muscle mass to weight ratio.

Oh, you mean that's it?  That's as far as you've thought this through?   Hahahahahahaha!

But wait, if you follow this little thread back, you claimed that there would still be plenty of women competing and that you'd explained how.  Which you didn't and can't.

Quote
OMG.  One affects performance the other is the performance.
Which doesn't make it completely different.
Either way, an athlete trains to be better, and then gets excluded.
It is comparable.

You seem to be totally ignoring the entire point of sport is trying to be as good as possible.

Quote
No, you.  Idiot.
I'm not the idiot who seems incapable of reading. That would be you.
Jura was the one saying they are the best of nothing, not me.

LOL.  If this your attempt at gaslighting, you're not very good at it.

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JackBlack

  • 20331
Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #500 on: June 10, 2023, 04:36:46 AM »
You seem to be totally ignoring the entire point of sport is trying to be as good as possible.
No, I'm not.
If that was truly the case, and all that mattered, then there would be no divisions at all.
Athletics would just be the fastest person.
Boxing would just be the best boxer.
And so on.

The fact that there are multiple divisions in boxing demonstrates that is not the case.

Your garbage arguments work equally well against boxing.

LOL.  If this your attempt at gaslighting, you're not very good at it.
No, it is just calling you out for your pathetic dishonesty, while calling Jura out for their pathetic double standard.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #501 on: June 10, 2023, 06:17:23 AM »
Why do boxing/ fight divisions exist?



Because a heavyweight fights differently than a lightweight.

Its interesting to see the differences.


Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #502 on: June 10, 2023, 06:51:29 AM »




Mens football are groomed from 10yo.
Womens side start later.

Leg structure differences.

Menstration affects joints for some reason.


Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #503 on: June 10, 2023, 07:28:40 AM »
You seem to be totally ignoring the entire point of sport is trying to be as good as possible.
No, I'm not.
If that was truly the case, and all that mattered, then there would be no divisions at all.
Athletics would just be the fastest person.
Boxing would just be the best boxer.
And so on.

The fact that there are multiple divisions in boxing demonstrates that is not the case.

Your garbage arguments work equally well against boxing.

It really truly is the case.  In athletics the men compete to run the fastest, jump highest or furthest, etc, etc.  In one to one matches, they compete to beat everyone else in their event.  Same with team sports.  And in boxing, they compete to be the best in their weight class.

The women do the same for all of their events, as do the Paralympians.

In every case, itís about trying to win and find out who is the best.  No one ever tries to put a team together of the not too good.

Your continued attempt to justify your shit idea with boxing also ignores that the reasons those weight divisions exist is very much closer to the reasons we have separate mens and womens events than your shit idea.  But since you canít explain your own idea on its own terms, just keep repeating it, eh Jack.

iTs jUSt LikE bOxINg!

Quote
LOL.  If this your attempt at gaslighting, you're not very good at it.
No, it is just calling you out for your pathetic dishonesty, while calling Jura out for their pathetic double standard.

Keep telling yourself that.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #504 on: June 10, 2023, 10:25:52 AM »
Good news from the UK https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/
Yeah, basically children will only get puberty blockers for gender dysphoria as a part of a research project.  Fortunately in the UK, although there is plenty of online debate, decisions around health are nowhere near as politicised as they seem to be in America.

Meanwhile in California they will going to say that not "affirming" a child's gender choice will be child abuse.  So if some troubled 14 year old girl with autism, ADHD and depression walks into a psychologist's office and says "I'm frightened of becoming a woman and I've heard about these drugs and operations you can get".  Then the clinician can't even say "I think we should talk this through".   Presumably they will have to say instead "well, that all sounds fabulous and brave - lets get you on these puberty blockers - then we can talk about cross sex hormones and your mastectomy". 
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

Quote from: bulmabriefs144
The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis

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Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 49103
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #505 on: June 10, 2023, 12:04:51 PM »
Yeah, California is in the process of passing a bill that would give custody (in a divorce) to the affirming parent. Scott Wiener is also sponsoring a bill that would force foster parents to affirm the gender identity of the kids in their care. It's all fucking crazy. It's been awhile since I read about it, but I know that trans identity is higher than average among foster kids. Probably because so many of them have been abused.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #506 on: June 10, 2023, 12:17:38 PM »

Yeah, basically children will only get puberty blockers for gender dysphoria as a part of a research project. 

Hell yeah, letís round up a bunch of orphans and do a science!

I see no ethical problems here.

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JackBlack

  • 20331
Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #507 on: June 11, 2023, 03:51:34 AM »
Why do boxing/ fight divisions exist?
Because of different abilities of the boxers, which correlates to things like strength, which correlates to muscle mass, which correlates to weight.
Because otherwise, a lightweight would basically just be taken out by a heavyweight.
It would be like an adult fighting a baby.

It really truly is the case.
No it isn't.
The fact that there are different divisions, like weight classes in boxing, and the Paralympics demonstrates it isn't simply about being the best.
For a lot it is about being the best in that division.

So no, it is NOT about finding who is the best.
If it was about finding who is the best, there would be no divisions.

Your continued attempt to justify your shit idea with boxing also ignores that the reasons those weight divisions exist is very much closer to the reasons we have separate mens and womens events than your shit idea.
Because on average, women perform worse at sports than men, just like on average a heavier boxer performs better than a lighter boxer?

Or do you mean the original reason, of giving something for the not so good to play at while keeping them out of the main events?

Hell yeah, letís round up a bunch of orphans and do a science!

I see no ethical problems here.
I see the obvious one your massively dishonest portrayal.

It truly is quite simple, the effects of suppressing puberty are not well understood.
This provides an option for people to obtain and use them, while increasing our understanding of them.
Would you rather people just recklessly prescribe drugs with unknown side effects and unknown long term consequences.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #508 on: June 11, 2023, 05:38:30 AM »
No

Because heavy weights swing for ko

Lightweights are fast tehnical amd last longer.

Re: What is a woman?
« Reply #509 on: June 11, 2023, 05:54:03 AM »

Hell yeah, letís round up a bunch of orphans and do a science!
What??
"I'm not entirely sure who this guy is, but JimmyTheLobster is clearly a genius.  Probably one of the smartest arthropods  of his generation." - JimmyTheCrab

Quote from: bulmabriefs144
The woke left have tried to erase photosynthesis