What is a woman? plus Last Supper in Paris Olympics discussion.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/18/1194593562/chess-transgender-fide-pushback

Why the hell is chess gender segregated?  Does upper body strength play a significant role in this sport?

Attitudes based on outdated perception, and probably the fear of being beaten by a woman if you hold them. (The shame!)

Anyway, my final report on the Women’s world cup.

The Lionesses fell at the last fence to a frankly better (on the day) Spanish side, but they have over the last few years done a sterling job, winning the European cup and second in the world cup, likely inspiring a generation of young girls.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/18/1194593562/chess-transgender-fide-pushback

Why the hell is chess gender segregated?  Does upper body strength play a significant role in this sport?

I agree

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 18, 2023, 05:45:30 AM

Youre confusing sexism and racism on basis of equal access.
vs
sports fairness and equal playing field.

Notice how you need to flee from simple questions which demonstrate the problem with your argument.

If it isn't exclusion because "men have their own category to play in", then why shouldn't it be fine to have a separate category for black people?
Your unwillingness to directly answer the question shows you know your own objection is BS.

Men are being excluded. Some people would even say some women are being excluded.
Being able to play in their own league doesn't mean they are not being excluded, just like black people being able to go to their own school or bathroom doesn't mean they aren't being excluded.

Ultimately the issue that society as a whole sees discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity as unacceptable except in very few cases.
This means people would instantly object to such ideas.

But society is perfectly happy with discrimination on the basis of sex, for so many things it isn't funny.

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 18, 2023, 05:45:30 AM

The average guy isnt notworthy.

And can the average guy actually beat the elite female athletes? Likely not.
This would be a comparison to an above average guy, which would still be noteworthy, just not as noteworthy as the best athlete; vs an "elite female" which is noteworthy, but not as noteworthy as the best athlete.

If you think the male is not noteworthy, then without appealing to blatant sexism, why should the female be noteworthy?

It depends on where the top 10%of the female gene pool overlaps with the XYZ% of the male bell curve.

Would require a bell curve overlap and offset by 15% performance factor.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/18/1194593562/chess-transgender-fide-pushback

Why the hell is chess gender segregated?  Does upper body strength play a significant role in this sport?

To give women a special place all by themselves, so they can compete only against other women, so we can have female winners without needing to worry about them being beaten by a man.
Especially with so many more male chess players.
This then helps little girls see "successful" female chess players.

So the same kind of outdated sexism which is seen in so many places in society.

Quote from: JackBlack on August 18, 2023, 05:23:58 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 18, 2023, 05:45:30 AM

Youre confusing sexism and racism on basis of equal access.
vs
sports fairness and equal playing field.

Notice how you need to flee from simple questions which demonstrate the problem with your argument.

If it isn't exclusion because "men have their own category to play in", then why shouldn't it be fine to have a separate category for black people?
Your unwillingness to directly answer the question shows you know your own objection is BS.

Men are being excluded. Some people would even say some women are being excluded.
Being able to play in their own league doesn't mean they are not being excluded, just like black people being able to go to their own school or bathroom doesn't mean they aren't being excluded.

Ultimately the issue that society as a whole sees discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity as unacceptable except in very few cases.
This means people would instantly object to such ideas.

But society is perfectly happy with discrimination on the basis of sex, for so many things it isn't funny.

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 18, 2023, 05:45:30 AM

The average guy isnt notworthy.

And can the average guy actually beat the elite female athletes? Likely not.
This would be a comparison to an above average guy, which would still be noteworthy, just not as noteworthy as the best athlete; vs an "elite female" which is noteworthy, but not as noteworthy as the best athlete.

If you think the male is not noteworthy, then without appealing to blatant sexism, why should the female be noteworthy?

It depends on where the top 10%of the female gene pool overlaps with the XYZ% of the male bell curve.

Would require a bell curve overlap and offset by 15% performance factor.

Why?
How does any of that answer if it is exclusion to have schools or bathrooms segregated on race, as long as everyone gets access?

How does any of that say why a female would be noteworthy when the perform worse than another non-noteworthy person?
Or if the average guy is actually competitive with elite females?

Because it would give an estimated magnitude value to this discussion.

Because it would give an estimated magnitude value to this discussion.

Which isn't needed at all to address your claim of it isn't exclusion because they have their own league.
Again, if things are segregated based upon race, such that everyone can still do it, just not with the other race, is that exclusion?
Or if there is a school/bathroom just for white people (and an open school/bathroom for everyone)?

Incorrect

It tells everything with what an elite female would then have to compete against if competig against hers +males divisions combined.

FIDE said it needed to make regulations on transgender players after receiving an influx of requests for gender changes. It ultimately ruled that "change of gender is a change that has a significant impact on a player's status."

I think the original reason for having a separate women's category in chess was legitimate, but it's not a contact sport. I don't see a good reason for FIDE to go bananas and remove titles from people who have transitioned since winning them. I'm not sure about keeping chess sex segregated. Of course there has been an open category for a long time, now. How many female chess champions have there been in the open category? idk.

What I think is very weird is that they've had so many requests for gender changes that they see it as an issue. Makes me wonder how many chess champs are autistic. There is some evidence of an overlap, and some studies showing a link, probably needs more research, though.

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 18, 2023, 05:45:30 AM

Youre confusing sexism and racism on basis of equal access.
vs
sports fairness and equal playing field.

Notice how you need to flee from simple questions which demonstrate the problem with your argument.

If it isn't exclusion because "men have their own category to play in", then why shouldn't it be fine to have a separate category for black people?
Your unwillingness to directly answer the question shows you know your own objection is BS.

Men are being excluded. Some people would even say some women are being excluded.
Being able to play in their own league doesn't mean they are not being excluded, just like black people being able to go to their own school or bathroom doesn't mean they aren't being excluded.

Ultimately the issue that society as a whole sees discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity as unacceptable except in very few cases.
This means people would instantly object to such ideas.

But society is perfectly happy with discrimination on the basis of sex, for so many things it isn't funny.

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 18, 2023, 05:45:30 AM

The average guy isnt notworthy.

And can the average guy actually beat the elite female athletes? Likely not.
This would be a comparison to an above average guy, which would still be noteworthy, just not as noteworthy as the best athlete; vs an "elite female" which is noteworthy, but not as noteworthy as the best athlete.

If you think the male is not noteworthy, then without appealing to blatant sexism, why should the female be noteworthy?

High School boys who have not reached peak physical ability have beat elite professional female athletes.  The average male will decimate the average female.

The fact that you have to drop down to non-elite but above average male athletes to compare to elite female athletes on the same level shows why females have their own category.

Theyre up to his shoulder.

https://youtube.com/shorts/H2vl2C3iq5k?feature=share

Incorrect

It tells everything with what an elite female would then have to compete against if competig against hers +males divisions combined.

Incorrect.
It tells you nothing about what was asked.

Again, your claim is that men are not being excluded because they can still play in their own league.
If you honestly believed this; then you would be fine answering a question about schools and bathrooms being segregated.
If it is not exclusion because men have their own league; then it wouldn't be exclusion for different races to have their own schools and their own bathrooms.

You just know that that is exclusion and you have no honest, rational response other than admitting that; and that by logical extension, men not being allowed to compete is exclusion; so you use whatever excuse you can to deflect away from the question.

I think the original reason for having a separate women's category in chess was legitimate, but it's not a contact sport. I don't see a good reason for FIDE to go bananas and remove titles from people who have transitioned since winning them. I'm not sure about keeping chess sex segregated. Of course there has been an open category for a long time, now. How many female chess champions have there been in the open category?

And what legitimate reason would that be?

High School boys who have not reached peak physical ability have beat elite professional female athletes.  The average male will decimate the average female.

Elite high school boys beat elite females.
That is not the average male beating the elite females.
And no one asked about the average male vs the average female.

The fact that you have to drop down to non-elite but above average male athletes to compare to elite female athletes on the same level shows why females have their own category.

Because of blatant sexism that wants to exclude people based upon their sex rather than their ability?

The only way to justify females having their own category would be if well below average males beat all elite females.

no

the claim is that men are bigger than women and are of a different class (F1 vs nascar) so they require difierentiating leagues.

YOUR claim that men are excluded is false, with the rebuttal that men ahve their own leagues.
a league of his own.


so i have no issue answering your nonsense strawman - as i've lareayd answered it - i will answer it again.
it is a nonsense comparison that you believe segregation as a place to put down vs create a safe sapce.

like women's washrooms - a safe place for women to be free from the statistically overwelming one sided showing males are more prone to perverted and rapey shinangigans.
(can rape be considered shinangigans?)
(i guess boys will be boys if theyr'e white boys on the school atheltic team)

what is the point of segregating the washroom?
do black men pee differently than white men?
or is it that the segregation was done to "keep them in their place"?
so is the segratation of the sports league to "keep women in their place"?
or was it done to "give them safe place to pee"?

if it's the latter, you have no arguement.

the claim is that men are bigger than women and are of a different class (F1 vs nascar) so they require difierentiating leagues.

No, the claim was this:

No
They arent excluded
Theyre allpwed to play in their own lwague.

You are claiming men are not excluded because they are allowed to play in their own league.

So why weren't black people not excluded when they were allowed to go to their own schools and use their own bathrooms?
Why should that be exclusion when everyone is able to do it, just not together?

This is what you need to address to deal with the claim of exclusion.
Once you admit they are being excluded you can try justifying that exclusion.

like women's washrooms - a safe place for women to be free from the statistically overwelming one sided showing males are more prone to perverted and rapey shinangigans.

You mean horribly statistics which exclude female perpetrators and male victims?
And similar statistics exist for race. So should we segregate based upon race to stop those rapey races from raping others?

what is the point of segregating the washroom?

Yes what is the point?
Why segregate males and females?
Without being a sexist piece of shit that wants to act like all men are rapists?

And notice how you don't give that "safe space" option for segregating based upon race. Why?

But again, this is trying to go into why the exclusions is justified, not if it is exclusion.

Admit that it is exclusion and then we can move on to you trying to justify why such sexist exclusion should be allowed.

so is the segratation of the sports league to "keep women in their place"?
or was it done to "give them safe place to pee"?

if it's the latter, you have no arguement.

Good thing it was the former.
Initially they were just excluded. It didn't matter how good they were, they just weren't allowed.
Then, when there was pushback, they were allowed, in their own divisions, to keep them separate from the real athletes, while still maintaining control over female sports.

Just like segregation of bathrooms was not for safety. It was because women wouldn't need them as they would be at home looking after the house and children.
And then when they were more being in the public, it was again to keep them down.

Incrorect
Order of ofperation:

1.
It was YOUR claim men were being excluded.

2.
It was the REBUTTAL they have their own leagues.

Since your claim is false and made of straw, we muliply all other nonsense talking points by zero.

It must be said that Jacky is a fucking idiot.

The women’s sport is the same as apartheid argument is facile, my son played in a mixed football team for a while, there was no danger of any of them being lynched.

If you are a pedant then you can argue that women’s sport is sexists, and use it as a mask for your misogyny, just as you could argue that school sports days are ageist and swamp them with middle aged man-boy’s resentful of others having accolades because they lost in the genetic lottery.

It’s a shame you are the way you are Jacky, but it isn’t women’s fault, thankfully as in so many things you are alone in this obsession. 

The women’s sport is the same as apartheid argument is facile, my son played in a mixed football team for a while, there was no danger of any of them being lynched.

LMAO....

I'm curious at the analogy.  Where can we find these football team lynchings?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-23215676

Brazil referee decapitated after stabbing player

so gross

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/is-it-time-to-retire-harry-potter-themed-classrooms-and-libraries/2023/08

https://archive.is/rkX0v#selection-1703.12-1703.24

Librarians mad about the kids reading Harry Potter. lol

when i was little, we weren't allowed disney's aladin because there was magic.


eye roll

when i was little, we weren't allowed disney's aladin because there was magic.


eye roll

There is also the scene where Aladin whispers you to take your clothes off.

Incrorect
Order of ofperation:
1.
It was YOUR claim men were being excluded.
2.
It was the REBUTTAL they have their own leagues.

And that rebuttal was tied to YOUR CLAIM that they are not being excluded because they have their own leagues.
i.e. the fact that they have their own leagues means they are not excluded.
Which logically extends to having your own schools or bathrooms is not exclusion.

Instead of discussing this you want to try focusing on if that exclusion is justified.

Before you get to saying it is justified, at least have the decency to accept that it is exclusion.

So again, is a white only school or a white only bathroom excluding black people, if black people have their own schools and their own bathrooms?

It must be said that Jacky is a fucking idiot.

Of course you have to say such crap when you can't come up with anything rational.

If you are a pedant then you can argue that women’s sport is sexists, and use it as a mask for your misogyny

It is nothing about being a pedant.
It is about recognising sexism and opposing it.
Instead of doing so, you use pathetic vilification as a mask for your blatant sexism.
A common tactic in the sexist feminist movement.

It’s a shame you are the way you are Jacky

I'm sure you think so, and you would love it if I was a sexist pig just like you.

thankfully as in so many things you are alone in this obsession.

Except as already demonstrated, I'm not alone.
People are starting to recognise this sexism and call it out.
So which side of history do you want to be on?
That of the sexist pigs, try to defend sexism at all costs, throwing out all sorts of dishonest BS trying to vilify those who oppose you? Or the side of those fighting against sexism?

And I wouldn't call this an obsession.

https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ewhc/admin/2023/2088

7. He has a total of 14 diagnoses and continues to have complex needs. His difficulties have been medically described as Mild Mental Retardation, Attachment Disorder, Emotion Dysregulation, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (“ADHD”), Oppositional Defiant Disorder (“ODD”) and (Autism Spectrum Disorder (“ASD”), dyslexia, severe anxiety, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (“PTSD”) and low self-esteem. In 2021, he was diagnosed with disturbance of activity and attention, minimal impairment of behaviour and reactive attachment disorder of childhood.

8. The Claimant was assigned female gender at birth, but identifies as male. He was referred to the Gender Identity Clinic (“GIC”) at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust (“the Tavistock”), when he was about 14. Mental health professionals have previously advised he may likely need 24-hour support in the foreseeable future. He has been approved for testosterone treatment with gender affirming surgery known as a Subcutaneous Mastectomy.

Wow.

Whars this about now?

Except as already demonstrated, I'm not alone.
People are starting to recognise this sexism and call it out.
So which side of history do you want to be on?
That of the sexist pigs, try to defend sexism at all costs, throwing out all sorts of dishonest BS trying to vilify those who oppose you? Or the side of those fighting against sexism?

And I wouldn't call this an obsession.

Who? Where? Show me these people Jacky.

As to the world I want? One where everybody get’s a chance to shine and women can excel rather than being buried by mediocre men furious at them because they get plaudits for their achievements.

Whars this about now?

They approved testosterone and mastectomy for a young woman with 14 different mental health diagnoses. She can't read or write, either. I'm not sure how they decided that she was mentally capable of consenting to any of it.

Quote from: JackBlack on August 22, 2023, 03:25:18 PM

Except as already demonstrated, I'm not alone.
People are starting to recognise this sexism and call it out.
So which side of history do you want to be on?
That of the sexist pigs, try to defend sexism at all costs, throwing out all sorts of dishonest BS trying to vilify those who oppose you? Or the side of those fighting against sexism?

And I wouldn't call this an obsession.

Who? Where? Show me these people Jacky.

As to the world I want? One where everybody get’s a chance to shine and women can excel rather than being buried by mediocre men furious at them because they get plaudits for their achievements.

he's been told who he identifies with

and he was quick to define the differentiation that he does it because he's a robot, not because he hates women

Quote from: Themightykabool on August 22, 2023, 06:25:54 PM

Whars this about now?

They approved testosterone and mastectomy for a young woman with 14 different mental health diagnoses. She can't read or write, either. I'm not sure how they decided that she was mentally capable of consenting to any of it.

ah
that's messed up

similarly
doctors were sterilizing immigrants and native americans by telling them they had to perform XYZ please sign this consent form.

this is to breed them out in a cruel and unusual punishment.


but to do it to a mental patient?
for what purpose?!






https://time.com/5737080/native-american-sterilization-history/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_of_Native_American_women#:~:text=In%20the%201960s%20and%201970s,the%20sterilization%20procedure%20was%20reversible.

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/immigration-detention-and-coerced-sterilization-history-tragically-repeats-itself