Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth

I believe in freedom of religion.

And unless you want to talk about how that goes against the evil POS you worship, how is that relavent?

You believe in evil as defined by jack in a world of natural selection.

As opposed to you, who believes in evil as defined by an evil tyrant, that is quite happy to screw with people to show off, and threaten them with eternal torment if they don't beg for forgiveness for being what he made them.

based off a texts written over generations.

Which you ignore?
Texts that say things like kill homosexuals?
Is that the kind of "ethics" you agree with?

And unless you want to talk about how that goes against the evil POS you worship, how is that relavent?

Why you so worried about something you don’t believe exits in a society of freedom of religion.

Why would my God be anymore or less evil than natural selection of your belief system that lead to dropping nuclear bombs on women and children. Or a system supposedly free of God that resulted in starving of millions.

Because of freewill?

As opposed to you, who believes in evil as defined by an evil tyrant, that is quite happy to screw with people to show off, and threaten them with eternal torment if they don't beg for forgiveness for being what he made them.

Because I acknowledge I have abused freewill?  If there isn’t a god.  You still have to obey the law.  And that law might be on the whims of a tyrant on earth. 


My hope is in God and Jesus. 

Texts that say things like kill homosexuals?
Is that the kind of "ethics" you agree with?

Vs USA and and missile strikes killing families in cars?

Vs a religion the matured into “he without sin cast the first stone.”

What is God’s will.  One of my favorite passages.  If you’re worried about tyrants. And freewill.

Samuel’s Warning Against Kings

10So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking for a king from him. 11He said, “These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen and to run before his chariots. 12And he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. 13He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his servants. 15He will take the tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and to his servants. 16He will take your male servants and female servants and the best of your young mena and your donkeys, and put them to his work. 17He will take the tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. 18And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.”


The LORD Grants Israel’s Request

19But the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel. And they said, “No! But there shall be a king over us, 20that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.” 21And when Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the ears of the LORD. 22And the LORD said to Samuel, “Obey their voice and make them a king.” Samuel then said to the men of Israel, “Go every man to his city.”

So what is God’s will vs what is abuse of human’s freewill?

I think “he without sin cast the first stone” in the context of Jesus and the Old Testament is God’s will.

I would rather have freewill than be made into a robot.  Yes it means suffering.  But it also means truly enjoying the good things.  And having understanding why they are good. 

God or no God, there is still law.  To bad we couldn’t be more mature and heed “Samuel’s Warning Against Kings”?  Too bad we as a race aren’t mature enough to live free of government.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on September 07, 2023, 04:44:21 AM

I believe in freedom of religion.

And unless you want to talk about how that goes against the evil POS you worship, how is that relavent?

It would be relevant, as you say, because that evil POS is responsible for you being alive. For the sun, the moon, the weather, tides, biological processes like your diseased brain being able to think at all as well as all life. If God's an evil POS as you say... how are you here?

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on September 07, 2023, 04:44:21 AM

based off a texts written over generations.

Which you ignore?
Texts that say things like kill homosexuals?
Is that the kind of "ethics" you agree with?

You have internalized hatred of Christianity based on a lie that Marxist liberals told you.

We have a bipartisan government. This means that unless 100% of government is controlled by one party, both parties must agree on something.

What actually happened when LGBT rights were extended (btw, the gay panic defense I don't think exists anymore; murder is murder) was that while fringe fundies may have thought killing gays was acceptable, as media portrayal of gays reached mainstream and especially depictions of gays getting killed in movies, moderate and even conservative groups voted against further discrimination. Gay marriage was allowed. Despite loud squawking from Democrats that Trump will overturn gay marriage, he didn't. He also kept trans ppl out of the military. I respect his decision. They are not combat ready, and would be killed in battle.

Yes, churches can and do allow gays to attend. What they often vote against is being a front for leftist politics. Openly gay ministers often tend to be mouthpieces for globalist agenda. The church is about the mission of the church, being a welcoming place for the poor, the hungry, and the lost. It's not an orgy for gay sex (do that at home!) and it's not a front for politics. It's not about social justice either. It's about religion and charity. This is the state trying to make the church's funds theirs by taking over and corrupting it.

Yes, trans people, gay people, and even hermaphrodites are welcome in church. So are drunks, murderers, thieves, and rapists. But while trans people can probably present as female, things that affect other people generally are rejected by those people. Forcing people to accept openly gay ministers is not as bad as raping or murdering ppl, but it's the same sort of imposition. You're telling them they HAVE to accept this or they are as bad as ppl who murder gays. Uhhhh no, they're not.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on September 07, 2023, 04:44:21 AM

I believe in freedom of religion.

And unless you want to talk about how that goes against the evil POS you worship, how is that relavent?

So.  What happens when you get invited to a homosexual wedding lead by a lesbian pastor at a Methodist Church? 

I attended a wedding as officiant (for those not in the business, that's what you call the priest for wedding), where I was presenting as female, and the guy was marrying a pre-op transmasculine person. They not only later had a child, but when I saw them, they had a pretty decent beard.

What's your point?

My point is that unlike the secular world, that proclaims laws absolute for all people ("we must change all stuff to electric by 2050"), the religious world values personal choice. So no two Christians are the same, and while we're at it, no two decisions are the same. 

There is an instance where I'd refuse to attend a gay wedding. If they're assholes. The same goes for a straight wedding.

I refused to attend a straight wedding because they were super into the whole mask thing, and also wanted me to wear a tie. Ties are male oppression, and I refuse to wear such nooses. Simply decided they just weren't my people, and ignored the invitation.

I would likewise refuse to attend the wedding or birthday from the people who harassed that cake baker.  Seriously, the man was minding his business in Colorado, and people from several states away in Massachusetts decided to visit his shop to ask for a gay wedding cake, and when he told them no, he spent the next several years defending himself in court.  Fucking mind your own business, and go get married in your own state! What they asked him to do was illegal at the time, btw (I think I checked). Meaning these assholes were literally asking him to commit a crime to make social change. He lost business for their scene. Then he gets hassled again, this time to bake a trans birthday cake. You cannot tell me that he wasn't being bullied.

I refuse any and all invitations to events by assholes. If you bully my friends and family, you don't get to cry "bigot" when I decide not to attend. Doesn't matter if you're straight, guy, black, white, trans, Shinto, Hindu, or Buddhist. It does matter if you have an inability to let people alone to their decisions (trying to force me to drive an electric car, or believe in RE, or trying to "de-convert" me from my religion is a pretty good way to get me to decide you are an asshole; tbh, trying to force me to do anything might suffice).

Don't be an asshole, and we're good. Think you can manage?

Why you so worried about something you don’t believe exits in a society of freedom of religion.

I'm not worried about your tyrant at all.

Why would my God be anymore or less evil than natural selection of your belief system that lead to dropping nuclear bombs on women and children.

I have already explained why your god is more evil than natural selection.
Your god is sentient. Natural selection is not.

Natural selection lacks intent, so it cannot be evil.
Your god (if it exists) has intent, so it can.

A child could understand this. So why can't you?

How did my "belief system" lead to dropping nuclear bombs?
How wasn't it YOUR belief system?
After all, at the time the US was a "Christian nation", with those in charge and those making decisions being Christians.
Christian who likely did not value life. As why should this life matter when people have an afterlife?
What part of my "belief system" actually caused it?

Or a system supposedly free of God that resulted in starving of millions.

You mean a system that due to a variety of causes results in people starving.
As opposed to your system, which would have your god intend for this to happen.

Because I acknowledge I have abused freewill?

How does you abusing free will mean it is fine for children to suffer?
For storms to destroy so much?
For people to be raped and tortured?

Free will is NOT an excuse.

If there isn’t a god.  You still have to obey the law.  And that law might be on the whims of a tyrant on earth.

Saying your god isn't as bad as evil tyrants is a very low selling point.

My hope is in God and Jesus.

So evil POS?

Vs USA and and missile strikes killing families in cars?

So vs a Christian country, lead by Christians, with Christians carrying out these acts?

Again, if all you can do is deflect away from the evil of the evil tyrant you worship, then you have no case.
You have not presented any case that indicates your god is good, or necessary or even sufficient as a source of morality.

Your god is worse than Hitler.

Vs a religion the matured into “he without sin cast the first stone.”

No, it hasn't.
And cherry quotes wont save you from all the evil.
If it had matured to that point, Christians would keep to themselves and not oppose evil. So the Christian USA wouldn't have dropped bombs on Japan.

It would be relevant, as you say, because that evil POS is responsible for you being alive.

No, it isn't.
That is your fantasy.

And an evil POS can create things to screw with them.
So even if your evil POS did do all that, that doesn't magically mean it isn't evil.

If a couple have a child just to abuse it, are those parents loving?

You have internalized hatred of Christianity based on a lie that Marxist liberals told you.

No, I don't.
I recognise it for the abhorrent garbage it is.
No decent human being would be a Christian except out of ignorance, cowardice, stupidity or brainwashing.

What actually happened when LGBT rights were extended (btw, the gay panic defense I don't think exists anymore; murder is murder) was that while fringe fundies may have thought killing gays was acceptable, as media portrayal of gays reached mainstream and especially depictions of gays getting killed in movies, moderate and even conservative groups voted against further discrimination.

i.e. gay people gained rights IN SPITE OF religion.

i.e. people recognise just how abhorrent their religion is, so they ignore parts they don't like.

Forcing people to accept openly gay ministers is not as bad as raping or murdering ppl, but it's the same sort of imposition. You're telling them they HAVE to accept this or they are as bad as ppl who murder gays. Uhhhh no, they're not.

No, I'm not.
Yet again you are setting up a fantasy.

I think gay ministers or female ministers just show how dishonest or deluded they are.
They promote something that goes directly against their fantasy.

the secular world, that proclaims laws absolute for all people

No it doesn't.
It has vastly more freedom than religious BS.

the religious world values personal choice.

No, it doesn't.
It typically despises it.
All it takes to realise you are blatantly lying is to read the Bible.

What happened with the "10 commandments"?
The first are about kissing God's ass.
And when Moses came down, and the Jews weren't kissing God's ass, what happened? MASSACRE!

And what happened later? Plenty of societies put to death just for not worshiping the right god.
And of course, we can't forget what happened before that, where God screwed with the Egyptians, to show off, preventing the Pharaoh from letting the Jews go, to pretend it was justified.
Do you know what happened in that story, the first time God didn't do that? The Pharaoh agreed to let the Jews go, as long as the frogs were put back in the water. So what did God do? Put them in a stinking heap.

Seriously, the man was minding his business in Colorado, and people from several states away in Massachusetts decided to visit his shop to ask for a gay wedding cake

No. People from Colorado, who planned to have a wedding in Massachusetts and return to Colorado to have cake with their family and friends.
Now, you might ask why they did that; why go all the way to Massachusetts to get married if they live in Colorado?
Well, the Christians in charge of Colorado didn't believe in freedom and personal choice, and instead wanted to force their religious BS onto everyone, prohibiting same sex marriage. Colorado didn't allow same sex marriage until 2014. 2 years after the wedding.
Massachusetts was the first to allow same sex marriage.
In July 2012 (when they visited the shop), the only locations they could have gotten married were Massachusetts, Iowa, Vermont, New Hampshire, DC, New York, Washington and Maryland.
The only outliers there are Washington, which is arguable closer, but only had the legislation passed in Feb 2012; and Iowa, which had the Judges who made same-sex marriage legal ousted because of it.

So it is understandable that they went to Massachusetts, and that they made that treck themselves, to celebrate with their friends and family upon their return.

And as far as I am concerned, refusing to make the cake for them is no better than doing it for a black couple, or interracial couple.

Fucking mind your own business, and go get married in your own state!

They likely would have, if you religious nuts would mind your own business and not try to force your religion onto everyone.

What they asked him to do was illegal at the time

No. It wasn't. Not in the slightest.
Colorado would not issue licences for gay marriage. But having a cake to celebrate a wedding out of state is not a crime at all.

He lost business for their scene.

And he deserved to.
Or do you think people should be forced to buy a cake from a bigot?
If you care about freedom so much, why care about people losing business due to others exercising their freedoms?
Or do you only care about freedom when it supports you.

Don't be an asshole, and we're good. Think you can manage?

You first.

Also, do you also oppose laws for all people like "don't kill people without just cause"?
Or do you value the "personal freedom" to kill whoever you please?

I'm too distracted right now. But I'm bumping this because it's heading down the page.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on September 07, 2023, 07:28:40 AM

It would be relevant, as you say, because that evil POS is responsible for you being alive.

No, it isn't.
That is your fantasy.

And an evil POS can create things to screw with them.
So even if your evil POS did do all that, that doesn't magically mean it isn't evil.

If a couple have a child just to abuse it, are those parents loving?

Well, if we're looking at this, then you're asking the wrong question (also, I suspect your relationship with God is due to abusive parents as a child).

Why do I say that it is the wrong question? Well, let's look at Lovecraft. He had a myth culture that involved mostly demons or monsters. It was very much an idea that the closest equivalent to "God" was basically too interested in other stuff to care about humans,
http://www.fredvanlente.com/cthulhutract/images/WhyWeHere_Page_13.gif
and the rest are kinda sadistic. Lovecraft himself had an atheistic worldview, so his best idea in all this was to die before being horribly tortured. "To be eaten first."
But the reason this is the wrong question is that it overlooks whether pain has to be the last word at all. If my girlfriend or boyfriend just left, is pain really all there is, or can I reach to a friend and head to a movie or something. This bad time actually provided a good excuse to connect with others. This world isn't a dollhouse where no evil exists, but more like a place where we turn to a friend to pick up the pieces. Think about Harry Potter. Kid gets locked in the basement, but it's his friends that help him. Jesus is called our Savior. We don't have a deity that prevents anything from happening. That's a boring world where we probably commit suicide anyway. We have a Savior. The implication being that God allows evil to happen, but he doesn't cause it, and he mitigates the trauma and harm that would happen if he actually were absent. Evil is allowed, because boredom is a far worse evil.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on September 07, 2023, 07:28:40 AM

You have internalized hatred of Christianity based on a lie that Marxist liberals told you.

No, I don't.
I recognise it for the abhorrent garbage it is.
No decent human being would be a Christian except out of ignorance, cowardice, stupidity or brainwashing.

 You quite literally call a person a tyrant and a POS, even after I show you that the worst tyranny (Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il and Lil Kim) comes when people want to be viewed as the head of people's lives. Meanwhile, this POS freed thousands of Jews from slavery. Hmmmm, someone is brainwashed here, but I think it has to be the one who is violently reacting against statements that God actually loves you.

Now, we could make all kinds of statements about how there are abusive aspects to that love. But this is quite different from denying that God deliberately wanted us in this world.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on September 07, 2023, 07:28:40 AM

What actually happened when LGBT rights were extended (btw, the gay panic defense I don't think exists anymore; murder is murder) was that while fringe fundies may have thought killing gays was acceptable, as media portrayal of gays reached mainstream and especially depictions of gays getting killed in movies, moderate and even conservative groups voted against further discrimination.

i.e. gay people gained rights IN SPITE OF religion.

Nice try. The secular left is actually deeply racist and sexist. The civil rights movement actually helped come about because of conservative Christians, as did the right for anyone to get married. Fundamentalists are not conservative Christians, they tend to be RINOs.

https://scribe.uccs.edu/can-you-be-lgbtq-and-christian/
(Spoiler: the answer is yes)

Okay, why do I say that it was the Christians who made sure the LGBT ppl had basic rights? It's because the official narrative that the left was responsible doesn't add up. You see, most LGBT ppl are made, not born. This is the dirty little secret that the left hides with their "born this way" crap. But I seem to remember a few experiences that put me squarely in the transgender spectrum. One of them was a so-called Fun Factory where the people there made the boys responsible for everything while the girls could do no wrong. The second was that my big brother crossdressed me not once but twice. So you see, I don't buy the idea that there's some genetic thing. On a larger level, the LGBT is made, as a sort of artificial protest group against conservative and Christian values. What's interesting though is that the people who created them just wanted another pink group to use and dispose of. It was the Christians who gave them things like right to marry.

The natural sexuality of humans is bisexual. Usually, moral society pushes toward heteronormative behavior. But the LGBT lobby pushes in the opposite direction, while denying basic rights.

LGBT treatment is very complicated in the church, but it boils down to three groups:
1. Progressive Christians - Talk about using inclusive language, try to advocate for church to change and become less Christian. I don't think much of this, because they are more progressive than Christian, and they think that the church is inherently not suited to mercy. Still, they helped.
2. Fundies - Most people write these folks off as hopeless. After all, their church teaches homosexuality to be a sin, right? Well two things. First, many parents of such children change their tune after something bad happens (or almost happens) to their child. Second, having left such a church in the middle of a sermon, I came to understand that "LGBT lifestyle is a sin... " is a fragment of a larger passage. The actual passage goes that drunkeness, gambling, prostitution, and sex with other men are sins... and we have all been sinners, but our sins are washed clean.
3. Regular Christians - There are people who don't talk woke talking points, but aren't hard into fundamentalism either. Their Christianity is pretty simple love and mercy theology. These are the people who most helped laws protecting LGBT people pass. They also prevent laws allowing LGBT people to bully straight ppl or Christians though, because their mentality is very much about avoiding bullying and cruelty.

LGBT didn't gain rights in spite of religion. Had religion not been involved, they would be a bunch of fringe people with weird sex fetishes. Instead, they are a protected group.

They gained rights BECAUSE of religion.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/the-lgbt-endgame-is-to-destroy-christianity/

The LGBT story is very much a story of "love your enemy." The political LGBT groups want to destroy Christianity. But Christianity thrives when it does exactly this sort of outreach. This is because Christianity isn't about morals.



It's about outreach. The world is broken. You can either curse God who had nothing to do with it being broken and is honor-bound not to interfere in free will, or you can be part of the solution.

What are you personally doing to help LGBT people like me? I haven't seen love win from your actions.

Instead of blaming others (seen this behavior in union conversations too), it's time to step up. Be the miracle you want to see.

Well, if we're looking at this, then you're asking the wrong question (also, I suspect your relationship with God is due to abusive parents as a child).

And you would be entirely wrong.

I am asking the right question.
Why? Because you act like creating a sentient being means you can't be evil.
Yet parents do that all the time, and then abuse their child.
Creating a sentient being doesn't mean you get to abuse it however you want and not be deemed evil.

So it is the right question.

As for my parents, they weren't abusive at all.
For example, if I defied their command, they wouldn't throw me out on the street and leave me to die.

Why do I say that it is the wrong question?

Because you are in an abusive relationship with your imagination, and cannot possibly bring yourself to admit your imaginary fiend is evil, so you need to deflect away from these issues.

But the reason this is the wrong question is that it overlooks whether pain has to be the last word at all.

No, it doesn't.
If you want to go down this path, the question is if the pain is needed at all.
And for an omnipotent god, it wouldn't be.
Why do people need to die of cancer, or suffer from debilitating illnesses or disabilities?

None of that is needed.

You don't need a partner breaking up with you to hand out with friends.

Jesus is called our Savior.

And what is he saving us from? God.

We don't have a deity that prevents anything from happening. That's a boring world where we probably commit suicide anyway.

Tell that to all the families of rape victims who commit suicide, try to, or serious contemplate it.

We don't need a deity that prevents anything from happening. A loving deity would prevent such evil from happening. Your god instead encourages or causes it.

Again, to compare to children, say you are a parent with 5 kids. One kid decides to tie up the other 4. One is tied up on a table, and the others tied into chairs watching it. The one free kid then gets a knife and begins to slowly cut up the kid on the table in front of all the other kids. You, as a "loving" parent, wont step in and intervene, as that would interfere with this "bonding moment" for the 3 remaining children. In fact, you decide you will help the suffering, by getting a saw and cutting an arm off each child.

The evil POS you worship is like the parent in that analogy.
It isn't loving by any stretch of the imagination.
At best you get one which is apathetic and doesn't care.

A loving parent would step in and prevent that harm to their children.

Your god is not loving.

We have a Savior. The implication being that God allows evil to happen

Again, the implication is that God is so evil that we need to be saved from it.

Evil is allowed, because boredom is a far worse evil.

What about heaven?
Is evil allowed in there?
Or are people just bored so much that they want to kill themselves?

You quite literally call a person a tyrant and a POS

Your imaginary fiend, not a person.

even after I show you that the worst tyranny

You didn't show the worst tyranny.
You showed a relatively minor one.
The tyranny or religion has been vastly more damaging.

comes when people want to be viewed as the head of people's lives.

And that includes your god or the people claiming to represent it.

Meanwhile, this POS freed thousands of Jews from slavery.

Again, an incredibly dishonest representation.
That would be like me setting you on fire, only to throw a bucket of water on you and say I saved you from burning to death.

God planned it.
God set them up to be slaves in Egypt.
And that was done to show off.

Hmmmm, someone is brainwashed here

Yes, you.
You think a childish evil tyrant, is loving.
You ignore all the harm it allegedly does or causes and allows, and make up excuses for why it is allegedly loving.

I think it has to be the one who is violently reacting against statements that God actually loves you.

And who would that be?
I'm using examples involving violence to show how bad your god is.
But I'm not reacting violently.

But this is quite different from denying that God deliberately wanted us in this world.

Yes, that is more focused on the complete lack of any evidence for the existence of any god, or that it actually wanted us.

But again, even if it did exist, and it wanted us in this world, that doesn't mean it is loving or loves us.
Again, if it creates a being just to torment it, it is not loving, and wanting that being to exist to torment does not make it loving.

It matters why it would want us, not merely that it does.

Nice try.

Not a try, a success.
Religions are typically quite clear.
For example, with Christianity, homosexuality (at least for men) is declared an abomination worthy of death.

People accepted homosexuality in spite of religion, not because of it.

(Spoiler: the answer is yes)

In the same way that you can be a Christian who violates all of God's commands.

It's because the official narrative that the left was responsible doesn't add up.

Why?
Because you can't bring yourself to admit that religion is abhorrent and opposing it can be beneficial?
Because you hate the left and everything they stand for?

You see, most LGBT ppl are made, not born.

That depends on exactly what you mean by made vs born.
Your sexual preference is something that you have no control over.
There may be a post-birth environmental aspect to it, but for the most part, it is set from your gestation.

What you really have is society causing people to suppress it.

3. Regular Christians

i.e. those who ignore the parts of the Bible they don't like.

They gained rights BECAUSE of religion.

Again, pure BS.
And the way you act like LGBT is an attack against religion just further shows it.

You can either curse God who had nothing to do with it being broken and is honor-bound not to interfere in free will, or you can be part of the solution.

Pure BS.
Your god is meant to have planned this all and wanted all this to happen.
So it would very much be responsible for it being broken.
Your god was also happy to repeatedly interfere with free will.

Again, look at the story of Egypt.
God literally interfered with the Pharaoh's free will to prevent him from letting the Jews go free. Because he wanted to show off.

Even your own position (where you entirely ignore the fact that God made the Jews slaves and was doing it to show off) makes no sense.
You claim God can't interfere to prevent evil, yet claim it freed the Jews from slavery.
If God is so happy to free the Jews, why wont it stop a rapist?
Your god cares more about the free will of the rapist than the free will of the rape victim.
Your god is evil.

Its only excuse is that it doesn't exist so it can't help.

Sun is no longer visible because it has set.

This video..

Flat Earth Sunsets - Should the Sun Shrink?



Is debunked here..

Video. Should we see the sun Shrink.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92080.0



Your cited video totally ignores the actual movement of the sun.

  And yes, on a flat earth the sun would change apparent size.

One, it would be changing distance the entire day from the viewer. The cut off by the horizon argument is not a valid argument.

Two.  It’s been modeled and calculated again and again the sun would not set on the dimensions of a flat earth.

Sorry.  You cited a bad source with invalid arguments that totally ignores the actual motion of the sun throughout the day. 

Quote

Well, if we're looking at this, then you're asking the wrong question (also, I suspect your relationship with God is due to abusive parents as a child).

And you would be entirely wrong.

So it is the right question.

I've yet to see any conclusive proof that you haven't been abused as a child.

Especially since in this forum, people seem to be afraid to divulge their personal life.  Therefore, if left only to conjecture, I've decided...

---

1. Your father anally raped you as a kid.
2. Your mother also slapped you around a couple times each day.
3. You wondered how a loving God could allow that, and rather than searching for answers yourself, you went to college then university where they told in science class that the only God who would allow that is a tyrannical POS.
4. You believed them.
5. Rather than asking for help or sympathy, you enter FE forums and proceed to tell them how stupid they are for believing as they do.
6. When you antagonize people, you get neither help nor sympathy. You get people either mad at you or afraid of you.
7. You, not God, are your own worst enemy.

---

As for my parents, they weren't abusive at all.
For example, if I defied their command, they wouldn't throw me out on the street and leave me to die.

That's not exactly a metric for abuse. He/she didn't throw you out on the street to die. They must not be abusive.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/types-of-abuse-5212239
Some of these are not obvious that you have been abused.

Here's the thing about God's laws, the ten commandments anyway. They do not actually have penalties! This is the real Ten Commandments.

---

I. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.  For I Am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.  Do not have other gods before me. Do not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you must not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. 
II. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
III. Do not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for He will not hold without guilt who takes his name in vain.
IV. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
V. Honor your father and your mother, that it may be well with you, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you.  For as your mother and father gave birth to you, so also God has made you.
VI. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.  Six days you may labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and made it holy.
VII. You shall not murder.
VIII.  You shall not covet your neighbor's house. Do not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything else.  Do not steal anything you covet from your neighbor.
IX. Nor shall you commit adultery.
X. You shall not molest, enslave, or otherwise trespass against your neighbor.

---

Does it mention what the penalty actually is for taking God's name in vain? It's not abandonment. It's "God will get really really mad (or something)." But you know, you have taken God's name in vain every time you say that it is not God but something else who creates the universe.
And you take his name in vain every time you blame him for problems that are human caused. We humans have a granted right of free will. This is what that story of Eden is about. God can do anything. But unlike an actual tyrant, he doesn't interfere with free will. So every time you call God a POS for something that David Karesh or Charles Manson did, you use his name in vain.

Has God given up on you? No, he has not. Nor did he give up on me, who rewrote those Ten Commandments because reasons.

That you said something oddly specific about abandonment says that maybe you you know someone EXACTLY like this.

Quote

Why do I say that it is the wrong question?

Because you are in an abusive relationship with your imagination, and cannot possibly bring yourself to admit your imaginary fiend is evil, so you need to deflect away from these issues.

This implies that God is a spirit and thus cannot be seen, heard, or felt. But God is existence. The rocks, the trees, and the people you meet, all of these are created manifestations of God. So you are telling me that you (and me) are evil. Because you are a manifestation of God. Stop hating on yourself (and me). That you have abusive friends or abusive family, these are manifestations. But God is able to be better than the manifestations, just as humans are able to be worse than God. My advice would be to find better friends who won't do this to you.
 
Wherever you find violent people, more often than not they are atheists, not theists.

Quote

But the reason this is the wrong question is that it overlooks whether pain has to be the last word at all.

No, it doesn't.
If you want to go down this path, the question is if the pain is needed at all.
And for an omnipotent god, it wouldn't be.
Why do people need to die of cancer, or suffer from debilitating illnesses or disabilities?

You blame, rather than asking the big questions. What would happen if nobody died and there were no troubles in life? Go ahead, you can ask me. I have few troubles common to most people as I don't work, and don't have a lover. Bored and lonely AF. If nobody died, there would likewise be an overpopulation issue. Instead, we have "overpopulation" mitigated by diseases of affluenza. In third world countries, people don't get cancer because the cause of cancer is chemicals, including refined sugar.  In Saudi Arabia, where the sun is hot AF, people don't get skin cancer. However, in Norway where sunscreen is used, they do. Blame science for this. Not God. But death is a natural other side of the coin for life. When you understand that life for life's sake is miserable and pain reminds us that we wouldn't WANT to live forever, the idea of blaming God for pain and death becomes stupid. Pain is a fact of life. Death is an end to life, and thus an end to pain.

Life is pain. It is through sharing our pain with others that we actually heal. Not by avoiding pain.

Bottom line: God isn't to blame for your troubles.

My father tells me that in the 1950s, local farms were a commonplace occurrence. Then the government employed only the people they needed to run national milk conglomerates, and millions of cows were put down. Think about this. Because government wanted to impose high profits, milk is not priced just above what it takes to produce, but about $3/gallon. In some areas, it's even closing in on $6/gallon. This up-pricing of foods not only slaughtered loads of cows, but meant that what would otherwise be an export of milk products first to sell in rich countries, and then to donate to poor countries.
(Even by the rationale that excess deflates the price, you can rid yourself of the excess by donating shelf-stable milk products to charities in huge quantities)

Humans cause suffering for other humans. Suffering stems from free will, but God cannot remove free will without being a tyrant.
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/a-beginners-guide-to-free-will
That is why you need a Savior. Because this life is designed to suck. Why is it designed to suck? Because we, having free will instead decide to do the opposite of living in harmony. We oppress each other, we rape each other, we even murder each other. 

You claim God is a tyrant, but you expect him to perform tyranny. You expect him to be like Light Yagami, and then call him a tyrant when he refuses to cause death in order to avert a crime. Tyrants act too much. God's only crime is that he allows us freedom. This is no tyranny, but quite the opposite. The price of freedom is suffering. Rather than awaiting some end time where God removes free will, this is a price I accept.

As for why we die from natural causes, disease, or accident... our bodies are not made to be immortal. in fact, a read of the text concerning knowledge of good and evil (aka free will) reveals that it is actually mutually exclusive with immortality.
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/historys-most-misunderstood-tree

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Simple jealousy? God not wanting to share his Godhood? It doesn't seem like it. Rather, from knowing the consequences of immature wanting of things, I know that wanting is often better than having. Far from having everything by being immortal, such beings would be trapped in their desires for all eternity.

Boredom.

I can forgive the God of the universe if he created me out of boredom. Boredom is incredibly isolating.

What is the first thing God says is not good?
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/why-is-it-not-good-for-man-to-be-alone.html

Isolation. Loneliness.

Blaming God for death means you really do not understand life or death.

Life is filled with pain. No death means pain goes on forever. But life also has things to rejoice about. If there was no death, the balance of nature means there could be no birth. Childbirth is a beautiful (if nasty) experience.

Man you really love clinging to your abusive relationship with your imagination.

Especially since in this forum, people seem to be afraid to divulge their personal life.  Therefore, if left only to conjecture, I've decided...

To construct an elaborate fantasy to dismiss me because you cannot honestly and rationally deal with what I say.
But even in this fantasy of yours, your evil POS sits idly by while a child is abused.
I don't need to have been abused myself to recognise a loving god would not permit that.
I can see all the evil in this world, and so many problems from the natural world which would be evil a god was behind it; and that allows me to recognise that a loving, all powerful god is incompatible with this world.

That's not exactly a metric for abuse. He/she didn't throw you out on the street to die. They must not be abusive.

Like many things, it is a one way test.
If your parents did that, they would be abusive.
I gave it as an example, an example of what the evil POS you worship does, which loving parents would never do.

Do you know another form of child abuse? Telling them they will burn in hell if they don't be for forgiveness for being human.
i.e. religious indoctrination is child abuse.
That is basically as close as my parents ever got.
But not to an extreme level.

But this appears to paint the picture of you.
You are so deep in this abusive relationship with your imagination, you are looking for excuses for why other people would recognise it as abusive.

Here's the thing about God's laws, the ten commandments anyway. They do not actually have penalties! This is the real Ten Commandments.

The "real" 10 commandments, the only thing actually referred to in the Bible as such, are actually drastically different from what people think. So much so that instead of calling them the 10 commandments, they are called the ritual Decalogue.
These are found in exodus 34, and even ends with "Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."
But because they are mostly BS which Christians discard, and they really lack anything of merit, they are discarded in favour of an entirely different set of commands, which vary in what exactly each of those "10" are depending upon who you ask.
e.g. Some people treat the declaration of "I am your lord thy god" as a commandment. Some treat it as preamble and some treat it as part of the first.

But even sticking to just what most people know of as the "10 commandments", you still don't get it right.
What you have labelled as the second of the 10 commandments, is actually the 2nd of the 2 Jesus provides in Matthew 22.
Noting that even then, the first is to love God with everything. Not merely as you love yourself, but with everything you have.
You also entirely rearrange them.

Your first does match up to some of the interpretations of the first.
But the next one in your list would be 3 (not surprising as 2 is not part of it).
After that it is what you have as 6.
Then 5, then 7, then 9, hen part of 8 (the part about stealing), then 4, then the rest of 8.

What you have made up as 10 is not part of it.

And of course they have penalties, they just aren't listed directly next to the commandment like a decent law would.
Do you know what not having the penalties there does? It means it can change arbitrarily depending on who is giving out the punishment.
For example, the penalty for violating the sabbath is provided in Numbers 15. And guess what it is? DEATH!
The penalty for adultery? DEATH!

Does it mention what the penalty actually is for taking God's name in vain? It's not abandonment. It's "God will get really really mad (or something)."

Based on what?

And you take his name in vain every time you blame him for problems that are human caused.

If your delusional fantasy was true, and humans were created by it, and it is all knowing, and has a plan, then everything that is human caused, is ultimately god caused.

But unlike an actual tyrant, he doesn't interfere with free will.

Instead it sits idly by while other people violate free will, not giving a damn to protect the free will of the victims.
You and your god cares more about the free will of a rapist than the free will of their victims.
Your god not stepping in, makes it an evil POS.

Meanwhile, in the Bible God was happy to interfere, repeatedly.
He even interfered with the free will of the pharaoh to show off.

That you said something oddly specific about abandonment says that maybe you you know someone EXACTLY like this.

Or, that I was directly comparing it back to some of the first things God did in the Bible.
God created Adam and Eve, lied to them, and then kicked them out of the garden to fend for themselves when they defied him.
Your god is not good.

This implies that God is a spirit and thus cannot be seen, heard, or felt.

No, it implies nothing of the sort.

But God is existence.

No. God is a fictional character in a crappy book.
When I point out that character is evil, I am not saying I am evil.
Because I was not made by your evil POS, and even if I was, that doesn't mean I am evil.
An evil being is able to create good beings.
But a good being would not create evil beings.

Wherever you find violent people, more often than not they are atheists, not theists.

And more delusional BS.
The higher the portion of atheists in a society, the more peaceful it is.
The higher the religiosity, the more violent it as.
And religious people are responsible for vastly more wars/conflicts and loss of life. And your fictional BS wont change that.

You blame, rather than asking the big questions.

No. I directly asked those big questions.
What would a loving god need with any of that?
NOTHING!
There is no reason to need that suffering.

And any argument to claim that it is needing goes directly against the idea of the Garden of Eden and heaven.

If nobody died, there would likewise be an overpopulation issue.

Why?
Lets stick to your fantasy.
The only reason it would be an issue is if your god made it an issue.
There would be no reason why we couldn't have limitless space to live on, with that space even growing in predictable locations.
So there would be no overpopulation issue.
And again, this is saying God's original idea for the garden of Eden is fundamentally broken, and heaven is bad and overpopulated.

In third world countries, people don't get cancer because the cause of cancer is chemicals, including refined sugar.

Sugar causes cancer in the sense that oxidative metabolism causes it. And it doesn't need to be refined to do that.
People in third world countries are far less likely to get cancer, because cancer is a disease of the healthy. You need to live for long enough to develop cancer.
And you need the instruments (and money) to detect it.

In Saudi Arabia, where the sun is hot AF, people don't get skin cancer. However, in Norway where sunscreen is used, they do. Blame science for this. Not God.

And more delusional BS.
People do get skin cancer in Saudi Arabia.
But people with darker skin are less likely to get it.
But again, due to what cancer is (and especially with skin colour being a factor), if a god created man, it certainly is to blame.
Science allowing you to live long enough to get cancer, and be able to detect it, is not a reason to blame science.

But death is a natural other side of the coin for life. When you understand that life for life's sake is miserable and pain reminds us that we wouldn't WANT to live forever, the idea of blaming God for pain and death becomes stupid. Pain is a fact of life. Death is an end to life, and thus an end to pain.

Pain being a fact of life means God is to blame for it in your fantasy.
The question is why should it be a fact of life? Why can't people live without pain?
The same can be said of death. But more importantly, why not allow people to choose when they die, rather than having it forced upon them?
And does that mean you don't believe in an afterlife?

Life is pain. It is through sharing our pain with others that we actually heal. Not by avoiding pain.

And why do we need to heal? Because of that pain.
If you didn't have that pain, you wouldn't need to heal.

That is another common tactic of an abusive relationship. They cause a problem, then offer the solution.

Bottom line:

This video is debunked

Flat Earth Sunsets - Should the Sun Shrink?




It presents a false argument.

And FE is debunked.

So the only thing you’re left with is derailing the thread.

Bottom line: God isn't to blame for your troubles.

Because it doesn't exist.

Then the government employed only the people they needed to run national milk conglomerates

You mean unregulated companies.

Humans cause suffering for other humans. Suffering stems from free will, but God cannot remove free will without being a tyrant.

Humans, which according to you were created by your god.
And then your god sits idly by without doing anything.
Interfering with someone's free will to stop them harming another, protecting that other person's free will in the process, doesn't make one a tyrant.

And again, God was happy to intervene plenty of times in the Bible.
So that excuse doesn't hold.

That is why you need a Savior. Because this life is designed to suck. Why is it designed to suck?

Because God designed it that way, because God is not good.
Why do we need a saviour? To save us from God.

You claim God is a tyrant, but you expect him to perform tyranny.

No, I expect a loving god to step in and protect people.
That does not make it a tyrant.

then call him a tyrant when he refuses to cause death in order to avert a crime.

An all powerful being would not need to cause death to avert a crime.

God's only crime is that he allows us freedom.

More like that it created people knowing they would be evil and then sits idly by while those people commit the evil it planned for them to commit; including stripping away the freedoms of others.
If your god truly cared about freedom and free will, he would protect it, stopping people from violating the free will of others.

our bodies are not made to be immortal. in fact, a read of the text concerning knowledge of good and evil (aka free will) reveals that it is actually mutually exclusive with immortality.

No, it doesn't.
If that was the case, they could have been left in the garden of Eden. The fact they had to be kicked out means it is NOT mutually exclusive, and you can have knowledge of good and evil and be immortal.

Instead, an honest reading of that shows that in that fantasy world God made mankind to die, and planned for them to defy him so he would have an excuse to torment them.

Simple jealousy? God not wanting to share his Godhood?

Or a fictional tale of creation with a need to invent a reason for suffering to provide an excuse for why we shouldn't run around naked.
A fundamental problem for monotheistic religions is why there is suffering in the world. The fable of the Garden of Eden blames mankind for it, so they can pretend their god is loving.
It also provides a reason for why we need to wear clothes, because we are "bad", and that if we were good we wouldn't need to.

Blaming God for death means you really do not understand life or death.

No, this pathetic deflection just means you are in an abusive relationship with your imagination and looking for anything to deflect from the being you love being evil.

Life is filled with pain. No death means pain goes on forever.

And in your fantasy that is because your god wanted it that way.
Your god could have easily chosen to have life without pain.
So that is still your god.
You are basically saying you shouldn't blame God for death, because it relieves you of the pain that is God's fault.
That's like saying you shouldn't blame someone for shooting your friend in a pool because they were saving them from drowning.

If there was no death, the balance of nature means there could be no birth. Childbirth is a beautiful (if nasty) experience.

Why? Because you say so?
There is nothing about birth that necessitates death.


Now care to stop focusing so much on your imaginary evil POS and instead admit you can't explain how the sun sets or rises on a flat Earth? How it casts a shadow upwards on an object below it?

But even in this fantasy of yours, your evil POS sits idly by while a child is abused.
I don't need to have been abused myself to recognise a loving god would not permit that.

 Even if God is all powerful, he willingly suspends omnipotence in order that you are able to make choices. Wanna be a crossdressing librarian? God will allow this if your employer will. Wanna go on a killing spree? This is why there's a legal system, because God seldom acts to punish us. You can't actually accuse God of being tyrannical. Tyranny has specific implications of overreach. You might be able to accuse God of being forgiving to the point of not appearing to punish wicked people. And that could be valid.

But let's assume God did act directly. Bolt of lightning, killing these parents. That fantasy version of you would wind up in foster care, where a long list of jobbers ("parents" who only want children because there is a payout for having them) neglect the children. The original parents abuse you only twice a week, but these new "parents" only feed you often enough to keep you alive, pocketing the extra money. Worse, they have a huge number of kids, many of which bully you because this is a toxic situation. You moved from occasional abuse to family after family of shitty parents because the system is broken by us humans and our government. So back to the original family. If God really wanted to do something, a teacher might take interest in you. She stops by because you left your bookbag one day, and witnesses you getting anally raped. She asks around about your other family, finds out you have none, and will be sent to the foster care system if anything happens to them. Instead, she quietly applies tobe your guardian and manages to secure an adoption. This is a miracle. The other stuff is magic tricks. But this miracle involves contrived coincidence and the teacher choosing to do something. Because of free will, this miracle often doesn't go down that way. Child services seems to often accuse fit parents of "child abuse" for flimsy pretexts like religious indoctrination, ripping kids from good parents to instead get shoved into the system.

Like many things, it is a one way test.
If your parents did that, they would be abusive.
I gave it as an example, an example of what the evil POS you worship does, which loving parents would never do.

Do you know another form of child abuse? Telling them they will burn in hell if they don't be for forgiveness for being human.
i.e. religious indoctrination is child abuse.
That is basically as close as my parents ever got.
But not to an extreme level.

Exactly as I say. You tell me your parents abused you. So instead of placing blame squarely where it should go, you have done what psychologists call... displacement? Basically, you've moved your target from these parents to God, because they did that, and God did not act. But again, had God acted, you might be in foster care right now. Instead God allowed your parents to believe as they do. And allowed you to believe about him as you want. You can still believe whatever you want. What isn't emotionally healthy is your displaced blame. Say it with me. "My parents are tyrannical POS!" Say it as many times as it takes to make sure you get it right. Once you're done placing blame correctly, the nezt step is figuring out whether or not you still want to hate God. It's alright if you do, but you ought to hate God for valid reasons, not a warped sense of blame.

Because I was not made by your evil POS, and even if I was, that doesn't mean I am evil.
An evil being is able to create good beings.
But a good being would not create evil beings.

Yes, you were. God does not make evil beings, so far as I know. Evil beings become that way, as a result of their background. Or do you not know that sons of abusers often become abusive? Would you have God punish a parent for his parent's passed-on fuckery? At what point does it stop? You would doom the whole human race because "Omg, my parents were such fundie assholes." Blame them, hate them, by all means.

 But God looks at their family history and sighs. Your parents and their actions led to you being as you are. And honestly, you suck right now. So do I. That's why we as humans progress. We understand that we are fucked up. This "I'm not an evil person, everyone else is bad" mentality does you no favors. Realize where you are fucked up, work on it. Or not, I don't care. Mebbe try not to pass it on to any children you have.

So you have a problem with local govt installing telephone towers but no issue with God telling you mywayorthehellway.

And yet again you cling to your abusive relationship with your imagination to ignore the fact that FE cannot match reality.

Even if God is all powerful, he willingly suspends omnipotence in order that you are able to make choices.

This does not make it any better.
You are saying your god willingly suspends its omnipotence so people can rape and torture other people.
That is not a good being.

This is why there's a legal system

Because your god isn't real, or if it is real it doesn't give a damn about humanity and is happy to allow so many people to suffer.
Maybe it gets off on it.

You can't actually accuse God of being tyrannical.

Have you read the Bible?
The god of the Bible is a tyrant.

But let's assume God did act directly. Bolt of lightning, killing these parents.

And why that specific way? To pretend that god acting is worse?
How about knowing how bad those parents are, making it so they can't conceive a child?
How about just making it so the child can resist, or putting a shield up around the child?

That fantasy version of you would wind up in foster care, where a long list of jobbers ("parents" who only want children because there is a payout for having them) neglect the children.

Or where loving people actually care about the child.
You could also be adopted.

Instead, she quietly applies tobe your guardian and manages to secure an adoption. This is a miracle.

No, this isn't a miracle.
This is a person giving a damn because your evil POS doesn't.
Why couldn't your god arrange for an adoption to a loving family?

Again, you need to cling to delusional fantasies, where your god being an evil POS and allowing so much suffering magically ends up being the right thing; while your god actually caring and intervening would result in far more harm.

Child services seems to often accuse fit parents of "child abuse" for flimsy pretexts like religious indoctrination

You mean for things like child abuse. Religious indoctrination is child abuse.
If they were good parents, they wouldn't be indoctrinating their child into religion.

Exactly as I say.

No. Nothing like as you say.
And it only comes close is you are willing to admit that religious indoctrination, even mild forms, are child abuse.

So instead of placing blame squarely where it should go

Again, if your god is real, IT IS TO BLAME!
This evil POS you worship is the thing which you believe made all of people, and is omniscient and has a plan.
That means it knowingly created these people knowing they would do that harm.
It then stood idly by and did nothing to stop the harm.
Not to mention it is meant to be the one that set up these religions.
So yes, it is to blame in your fantasy.

Do you know the only reason your god isn't to blame? It doesn't exist.

Say it with me. "My parents are tyrannical POS!"

No. My parents are not tyrannical.
They are fallible humans, victims of similar abuse from their parents.
And so on.

So how about you stop blaming humans for everything and instead start accepting that your god, if it exists, is to blame, at least in addition to humans.

Once you're done placing blame correctly, the nezt step is figuring out whether or not you still want to hate God. It's alright if you do, but you ought to hate God for valid reasons, not a warped sense of blame.

Again, if your god exists, that is a perfectly valid reason to find it abhorrent and hate it.
Your god, while being able to act to stop abuse, and yet choosing not to shows it is evil.

Yes, you were. God does not make evil beings. Evil beings become that way, as a result of their background.

Which in your fantasy is a direct result of God.
So people become evil because of God.

Your god is meant to be the source of everything. This necessarily includes evil.
How did any human become evil if not because of God?

Just look at the start of the Bible.
You start in the Garden, with Adam and Eve.
God then lies to them.
God then allows the serpent (another of God's creation) to go and tell them the truth, and God sits idly by while the eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (something else God created).

Why did God create that tree in the first place?
If God didn't want evil, why not just not make that tree?
If the only way to have free will is with the knowledge of good and evil, why not just create mankind with that?

Because your evil POS needs a way to pretend humanity is to blame.
It needs an excuse for why people should suffer.
It needs to pretend that humanity defying it is the reason for suffering, rather than it being part of its plan.

Once they were out of the garden, you had Cain and Abel.
And then what happened? God decided to like Abel's offering of meat, while rejecting Cain's offering of plants.
This resulted in Cain killing Abel.
So the background of Cain's evil is God's rejection, followed up by God telling him that if he does what is right he will be accepted.
Well obviously, believing God means believing he wasn't currently doing what is right, because God was not accepting him. What God accepted was death, with Abel killing his animals. So Cain followed suit and killed his brother.

If God instead accepted Cain's offering, it would have ended up very different.

So if you want to appeal to background, that is still appealing to God.

If God was good (and existed) there would be no evil.

Would you have God punish a parent for his parent's passed-on fuckery?

No. I would have a god intervene to stop the abuse before it damages the child and causes them to abuse as well.
But what does the Bible say?
And what did you say just a few posts ago:
"I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me"

So you and your god are perfectly fine with making children or people suffer for the actions of their parents, their grandparents and their great grandparents.
So YOU would have a person punished for their parents actions.
Yet here you are objecting to it.

This shows just how abusive your relationship is.
When your god does it or commands it or suggests it, you are fine with it, because you think your evil POS can do no wrong.
But when a human suggests something which is even remotely related to it, you suddenly recognise it would be a bad thing to do.

You continually push all the blame onto humanity, to pretend your god is perfect.
If your god was perfect and made this world and so on, there would be no evil.
If your fantasy is true, evil only exists because God wants it to. And that makes your god evil.

Again, its only excuse is that it doesn't exist, that it didn't create the universe or humanity, that it is entirely powerless to intervene.

And honestly, you suck right now. So do I.

That isn't honesty. That is your abusive relationship talking.
I'm not perfect, but I don't suck and I am vastly superior to your evil POS.
If I had the ability to stop rape, I would.
If I had the ability to wipe out cancer, I would.
And so on.
Your god does not.
But because of how abusive your relationship is, you refuse to think your god could be anything but perfect, and instead want to place all the blame on humanity; something your god allegedly created.

This "I'm not an evil person, everyone else is bad" mentality does you no favors. Realize where you are fucked up

Good thing I don't have that mentality.
But look at the mentality you have:
"God is not an evil POS, humanity is to blame for everything".
It is far worse. Even things humanity has virtually no control over, you blame them, rather than the being you believe created the world and humanity.
That's like saying Hitler isn't evil, the people putting the Jews in the gas chambers were.
That's like saying the terrorists who flew planes into buildings weren't evil, the planes were.

Realise your evil POS is fucked up.
At the very least, don't abuse your children with your abusive relationship.

On the contrary, FE does match reality. I have shown it many times in this very thread. But you are trying to bring FE up because the current topic is uncomfortable and you want me to change it. Btw, this "360 view" proves the Earth is made up of an infinite series of localized domes. Along with many other shots on this map.
https://www.360cities.net/image/casa-munno-allevamento-san-bernardo-lazio
If you want to change a topic, ever, just ask. Unless I am in a pissy mood, I'll agree. But I have no use for face-saving behavior. If you don't ask, whether me or Jesus or God or otherwise, how can anyone give you what you want?

Which is the point. Had you ever just told your parents, "Look, I don't care. You had a religious experience, but Romans 8 says nothing can separate us from God, and Revelation is a lie, so being religious or not is utterly pointless"? Because if not, then people will walk all over you. You blame God, you blame me, but you seem utterly reluctant to blame the very people who gave you grief in the first place.

So you have a problem with local govt installing telephone towers but no issue with God telling you mywayorthehellway.

Hell does not exist. It's a lie told by priests. I have just as much problem with these liars as I do with secularists and globalists.

But you guys for atheists are behaving remarkably like Pharisees.

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

It's not the telephone poles themselves. I like having working power and internet (3G or so), and I fully defend your right to live in the city and have 5G and lightning fast internet. I do not want or need lightning fast internet, if it comes with 5G or heightened surveillance as a trade-off. This is why I do not live in the city. Keep your damned city problems out of my town, you damned busybodies.

You seem not to get the difference between you want and I should get. If you want something, fine that is wonderful. But understand the notion of boundaries, please.

This is your side of the line. This is mine. You have the right to have anything you want on your side. I might even help you or ask someone to help via GoFundMe, if you ask nicely. When you start trying to cross my line and tell me what I can and can't have in the house I live in, you've crossed this line to my side.

Stop coveting. Just ask. God will provide. Both of you have a problem of being fixated about what other people have, to the point where you want to take away or mess with what they have. I have a small house, a pool (you're welcome to it, it's expensive to maintain), a car shared with my dad, a phone shared with my dad.  I have a computer (it's seven or so years old) and a Switch Lite. I don't work at a job, I help my folks with chores and with farming. I don't pay taxes. I don't have health insurance, neither do I go to the hospital. I don't have a girlfriend, and in fact this is the only thing I really envy of other people. I moved to get away from the city, but you people in the city are apparently so fixated with how I don't agree with your lifestyle of sacrifice-hedonism (you sacrifice your time to get money but nothing you use it for really fulfills you) that you want to make an example of me and those who live in small towns. I have nothing you want and want nothing you have. I'd just like to tell everyone from the city to fuck off and mind your own affairs.
When I prefer using a Windows 8.1, still program on a 20 year old RpgMaker 2k3, and still play SNES games... yeah, I'm not interested in your newest tech. I don't want it, and I don't need it.

If you want it, that's entirely up to you. Your side of the line. Do You Understand...?

Oh and also? The telephone company and even Verizon does a professional job. Then the 5G goofballs did this with their wires.


Damned unprofessional. I almost tripped. If I knew who to sue, I'd sue someone right around now.

Not for money. I'd sue to demand them to clean up their act and put things back to the way they should be in our house.

You see a contradiction in my thought that isn't there.

A basic tenant of Christian Objectivism is that Jesus always made compliance with His teachings voluntary, which includes giving to charity and being generous. He never told His disciples: “Help the poor, and if you don’t have enough money to do it, then forcibly take it from someone else. Preferably someone rich.” Government run welfare and social security, though born of good intentions, force some people involuntarily support a charity with which they do not agree. This is wrong and can never be justified.

Money is the product of men’s labor and thus an extension of their lives. No one has a right their lives but they themselves, and God as their creator. Compassion does not give men the right to tell others how to live their lives or what to do with their money. Therefore, capitalism is the only moral way in which resources can move between individuals. Walter E. Williams put it best when he said:
“Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering, and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man.”

We as Christians have the privilege to help those around us, those in great need, because it reflects the heart of the Father and empowers people to encounter His love. This virtue is not self-denial or sacrifice. It is integrity. If we believe who we are and who God is, then we can’t pass by one of His children who is in need. They need to be built up and brought back into their potential.

But we do not have the right to force people to help the less fortunate. To quote Terry Goodkind, “Charity must always voluntary. Otherwise it is just a nice word for slavery.”

It is one thing to give me a sob story, and I pass it along to GoFundMe, and you can have your electric car or smart house. It is quite another to force me to take what I do not want or need so that you can have the same perks for free.

On the contrary, FE does match reality. I have shown it many times in this very thread.

No, you have continually fled from your inability to make it match in this very thread.

But you are trying to bring FE up because the current topic is uncomfortable and you want me to change it.

Wrong again.
I am bringing it up, because that is the topic of the thread. A thread you decided to post in after almost 30 days.
But I now see that you had entirely fled from the FE discussion, effectively admitting defeat quite some time ago, so if you want to go back to your inability to defend the evil POS you worship,

Btw, this "360 view" proves the Earth is made up of an infinite series of localized domes.

No, it doesn't.
It proves we see with 2 angular dimensions.
Just why do you think it means there are magic domes?

Which is the point.

No. The point is that your god, if it existed, could stop so much suffering and abuse, but chooses not to.
You and your god value the free will of the abuser more than the abused.

Hell does not exist. It's a lie told by priests.

Just like your god.

Keep your damned city problems out of my town, you damned busybodies.

And are you the only person in that town? Or do other people live there? People that might want 5G?

When you start trying to cross my line and tell me what I can and can't have in the house I live in, you've crossed this line to my side.

That depends on what it is in your house. If that affects others, i.e. it crosses the line, why shouldn't people be allowed to regulate it?

Stop coveting. Just ask. God will provide.

And more delusional BS.
If your god actually provided, the world wouldn't be in the state it is in now.
No one would go hungry, because they would just ask god for food, and it would provide.

but you people in the city are apparently so fixated with how I don't agree with your lifestyle of sacrifice-hedonism (you sacrifice your time to get money but nothing you use it for really fulfills you) that you want to make an example of me and those who live in small towns.

No, we object to you kissing the ass of the fossil fuel industry and lying so much.
But notice your own projection. If you wanted to keep out of it, why are you on a forum spouting so much hate?

Then the 5G goofballs did this with their wires.

And yet another image with no source, and nothing to show who's wire it is or what it is for.

You see a contradiction in my thought that isn't there.

No, we see plenty of contradictions that most certainly are there.
e.g. you object to companies being free to do as they please, wanting to regulate what they can and can't do; while objecting to regulations.
You want companies to have to make sure things are safe, but object to research for the point of safety and think it should only care about profit.
You object to the idea of your god punishing the children of those who do wrong, while being entirely happy with it.

Quote

A basic tenant of Christian Objectivism is that Jesus always made compliance with His teachings voluntary, which includes giving to charity and being generous. He never told His disciples: “Help the poor, and if you don’t have enough money to do it, then forcibly take it from someone else. Preferably someone rich.”

And he told his disciples to go steal a donkey. He chased people out of a church with whips.
Not to mention the threats for violating it. But that was more from "God" than "Jesus".

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2023, 06:06:56 PM

“Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering, and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man.”

No, even with capitalism you still had people amass wealth like that.
And modern capitalism is often just thinly veiled slavery.
Plenty of people have the choice of being horribly exploited to work for virtually nothing, to be able to just scrape by; or don't work and die.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2023, 06:06:56 PM

We as Christians have the privilege to help those around us, those in great need

No, you have that as people. You don't need to be Christian for that.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2023, 06:06:56 PM

It is integrity. If we believe who we are and who God is, then we can’t pass by one of His children who is in need. They need to be built up and brought back into their potential.

Yet your god sits idly by and does nothing.
What you are saying is that Christians have more integrity than the evil POS they worship.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2023, 06:06:56 PM

Charity must always voluntary. Otherwise it is just a nice word for slavery.

Or it is a word for paying your fair share.

No, you have continually fled from your inability to make it match in this very thread.

Wrong again.
I am bringing it up, because that is the topic of the thread. A thread you decided to post in after almost 30 days.

Liar. I mean, you might be right about the 30 days thing, but the fact is, every so often, I manage to logically pin the topic so you can't respond. Like clorkwock, what do I see happen? Insults then sidetracking. I rise to the bait, and we talk about something that is not the official topic. Three pages later, the new topic leads to something uncomfortable, and you tell me suddenly that the original topic is super-important and that I never answered the original topic. No it really isn't, and yes I already did.

But unless you officially ask to change the topic - in which case, I get the pleasure of rubbing in your face that you not only couldn't handle FE (which is what led you to introduce another topic to an ADHD person) but also couldn't stand the heat of this new topic - this is the de facto new topic. Sorry.

If you'll excuse me, I got a lawn to mow. Sorry Sasuke, maybe later.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1123593550983090282/1163662215438671963/jesus.png







the irony of a totally, but not surprisely, unaware libetarian-christian genderfluid-republican posting asking if a dem more resembles Jesus or a richman when there is a literal meme of Republican Jesus.



but i guess projectionist gotta project...


also
saw this the other day about republicans not having a clue about things.

Liar. I mean, you might be right about the 30 days thing, but the fact is, every so often, I manage to logically pin the topic so you can't respond.

And now you are straight out projecting.
You blatantly lie, and you continually flee from topics when you can't honestly and rationally respond.

You entirely failed to explain how the sun casts a shadow upwards.
You appealed to a crappy video, with several flaws which you just want to ignore.
You appealed to a magical dome, which you can't explain at all, and again ignored the issues with it.
If the sun goes straight down, that means the majority of the world should be dark, with just a few minutes of daylight each day. Otherwise you need the sun to magically project onto the required point on the dome.
And that is just dealing with the issues raised relating to the OP.

Even with your abusive relationship with your imagination, you still can't defend your imaginary fiend.
You bring up an argument against your god punishing children, acting like that would make it evil; shortly after posting a commandment which clearly says your god does just that.

You are a liar. Go to page 1. I responded the first day. Third post. But while we're on topic, pretty sure I remember that the entire topic was about the sunrise on a flat Earth. But I'm pretty sure we've talked about everything from telephone lines to the moon and tides on threads before.
But you want to enforce the topic? It's because you're scared to keep talking about this one, no? Fine then. Obviously you can't take it, and we should all point and laugh at you.

The sunrise on a flat Earth, as I mentioned in post 3, is like this.

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on March 16, 2023, 03:49:41 PM

From the way the clouds are illuminated bottom up.  To the way the lower clouds cast shadows upward.  Just don’t get how a sunrise as seen is a product of FE.  It shows the reality of spherical earth.

You just don't get it, so it must be about the inability of the theory, and not your own ignorance.










In particular, take note of Proofs 1 & 4. You can actually see a flag sitting atop a hill from a car across the road from a mountain, but the closer you get to the base, the less you can see it. Theoretically, as you get towards the top of the mountain, you should see the flag again.  But in actuality, on the side of a hill on an uphill climb, you get a distance of vision well below the supposed 3 mile distance of the curvature.

Lastly, objects in space, such as the moon? They appear to reposition based on slope, direction, and altitude. Not distance. Within the same time zone, even if you could drive at the speed of light, the sun would be in the same position in the same hour as if going under 20 mph.  Driving in a straight line does not affect the position of the sun or moon, regardless of speed. But if you were to go down a hill, or turn a corner, the position of the sun changes. This is not consistent with the curvature. Every 3 miles, the sun/moon should slightly change. So after 60 miles, shouldn't the sun have adjusted 20 degrees or something? When actually, within the same timezone (yes, I am aware timezones are a construct, but more or less) the sun would not noticeably appear to shift even at light speed short of moving several timezones.

Since you probably don't get the last one, allow me to explain. I was riding back in a car while watching the moon. We had hills up and down. The moon at a level plane never moved in an hour or two while I was passenger. However, it lurched forward and backward, as we went up and down the hills. Still the same height, but it was like the entire perspective of a seen object moved based on slope.

You are a liar. Go to page 1. I responded the first day. Third post.

You are a liar.
You "responded", but that did not actually show a FE is possible.

Instead, you wanted to spend for more time lying about the RE to pretend Earth isn't round.

And that was pointed out in post 7.

You drew a crappy picture and entirely failed to explain how any of it works.
At no point do you explain how the sun is illuminating the cloud from below.

But you want to enforce the topic? It's because you're scared to keep talking about this one, no?

No, it is because you waited roughly 30 days before responding, to a thread quite heavily derailed.
I'm not scared at all.
You are the one that fled from topic after topic because you can't defend your BS.

Just look at your first post in this thread.
Spouting nonsense about your magic parabola without explaining anything, before jumping onto false proofs where you claim Earth isn't round.

You are a liar.
You "responded", but that did not actually show a FE is possible.

Really? You're gonna go with that?!? A No True Scotsman argument?

I am bringing it up, because that is the topic of the thread. A thread you decided to post in after almost 30 days.

From day one, three hours from when you posted, I posted back.

If I didn't post much more after that, it was probably because I was still posting more in another thread.

That you don't understand that the Earth is flat because of that has more to do with you being willfully ignorant than my failure. That's like telling you God exists, showing you that he loves you, and for you to call him a tyrannical POS because your parents were fundies. Isn't the problem there that you never just let the matter stand as "Welp, that's what my parents think. As for me, I'm a Buddhist/Hindu/atheist/some other belief set, and they can go fuck themselves." Nope, you instead blame all Christians but the ones who actually deserve your blame and God for somehow not stopping them. That's a disorder you need therapy for.

And that, is why you are afraid to continue this discussion and moving to go "back on topic" to something that was already debated, we changed the subject, and I've told you the same things until blue in the face and you don't listen. Why aren't we talking about why the Sunrise is Impossible on Flat Earth? Because I loathe repeating myself to people who don't get things. I would rather say, "Fine, you win, let's talk about this now" even though I know you haven't won anything, you've just been insufferably unable to understand the argument.

By the way, I have an extremely visual memory. In college Chinese History, they had us memorize an entire map of Chinese regions.

I think I got a perfect or near perfect score. I can also visualize in 3D how to build something. So when someone tells me there is a curve and I go through memories of the path I walked or drove, I can compare it to the route I drove, and everything I saw on the way, and it doesn't match up, yeah... it doesn't match up to reality.

13 They brought the man who used to be blind to the Pharisees. 14 The day that Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes was a Sabbath. 15 So again the Pharisees asked him how he received his sight.
“He put mud on my eyes,” he told them. “I washed and I can see.”

16 Therefore some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for He doesn’t keep the Sabbath!” But others were saying, “How can a sinful man perform such signs?” And there was a division among them.
17 Again they asked the blind man, “What do you say about Him, since He opened your eyes?”
“He’s a prophet,” he said.

18 The Jews did not believe this about him—that he was blind and received sight—until they summoned the parents of the one who had received his sight.
19 They asked them, “Is this your son, the one you say was born blind? How then does he now see?”

20 “We know this is our son and that he was born blind,” his parents answered. 21 “But we don’t know how he now sees, and we don’t know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he’s of age. He will speak for himself.” 22 His parents said these things because they were afraid of the Jews, since the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed Him as Messiah, he would be banned from the synagogue. 23 This is why his parents said, “He’s of age; ask him.”

24 So a second time they summoned the man who had been blind and told him, “Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner!”
25 He answered, “Whether or not He’s a sinner, I don’t know. One thing I do know: I was blind, and now I can see!”
26 Then they asked him, “What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?”
27 “I already told you,” he said, “and you didn’t listen. Why do you want to hear it again? You don’t want to become His disciples too, do you?”

28 They ridiculed him: “You’re that man’s disciple, but we’re Moses’ disciples. 29 We know that God has spoken to Moses. But this man—we don’t know where He’s from!”

30 “This is an amazing thing,” the man told them. “You don’t know where He is from, yet He opened my eyes! 31 We know that God doesn’t listen to sinners, but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He listens to him. 32 Throughout history no one has ever heard of someone opening the eyes of a person born blind. 33 If this man were not from God, He wouldn’t be able to do anything.”

34 “You were born entirely in sin,” they replied, “and are you trying to teach us?” Then they threw him out.

Pharisees do this sort of thing, and you are their heirs. They rejected the truth then, just as you reject it now. You don't really know that the Earth is flat, you say. Yes, yes I do. Or, you don't really know that 5G microwave energy causes harm! The sun has microwave energy, honest! Yeah, I do. I've felt palpitations at like 4am and feeling really hot and gross.

You, as they did, make up crap and push it as doctrine. But people know what they have experienced!

Quote

You are a liar.
You "responded", but that did not actually show a FE is possible.

Really? You're gonna go with that?!? A No True Scotsman argument?

No, I will go with what you actually did.
You gave a response to deflect from the issue.
You did not explain how it could possibly work on a FE.

That you don't understand that the Earth is flat because of that has more to do with you being willfully ignorant than my failure.

No, me not accepting your delusional fantasy is because I recognise the mountains of evidence that demonstrate it is a fantasy; along with your complete inability to defend that fantasy.

You cannot explain how the sun can illuminate an object from below when it is above.
You cannot explain how the sun manages to produce the illumination pattern on Earth's surface that it is observed to do.
You cannot explain how the sun appears to set, with Earth appearing to obstruct the view from the bottom up.

You cannot defend the FE at all.
Instead, you need to resort to repeatedly lying about the RE, and when those lies are pointed out, you ignore it, flee from it and then bring up the same lies later on.
Your arguments the RE are even self contradictory.

That's like telling you God exists, showing you that he loves you, and for you to call him a tyrannical POS because your parents were fundies.

Telling me Earth is flat is like telling me God exists and loves me. There is no evidence for and plenty to show the opposite.
But because you can't come up with a rational defence you resort to insults.

Isn't the problem there that you never just let the matter stand

Again, you are appealing to a fantasy.
Because you cannot deal with the argument I have made, you resort to constructing a fantasy, setting up false motives for why I say something, so you can entirely ignore the argument.

My parents weren't fundies.
The only way your argument works is if you think any form of religious indoctrination, even mild indoctrination, is child abuse. Do you think that? That a parent taking a child to church is child abuse?

And even then, it still fails, because my parents actions are not why I think it is impossible for an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god to exist.

Again, my parents have nothing at all to do with things like cancer and other diseases existing. My parents have nothing to do with natural disasters killing so many people and causing so much damage. My parents have virtually nothing to do with so many children around the world dying from starvation (unless you want them to give up everything they have). My parents have nothing to do with so many people being beaten and raped and killed. These are all things that in your fantasy your god either caused or does nothing to stop.

So you constructing a fantasy to dismiss me doesn't work at all.

Try to actually address what I have said rather than continually saying I'm saying it all because my parents abused me.

And that, is why you are afraid to continue this discussion and moving to go "back on topic" to something that was already debated

I'm not afraid at all.
You weren't providing any challenge at all with your religious BS.
You were refusing to address the arguments presented, clinging to a fantasy instead.
You even directly contradicted yourself.

Why would I be afraid? I have no reason to be.

Why aren't we talking about why the Sunrise is Impossible on Flat Earth?

Because you were entirely incapable of defending the FE.
Your last attempt at it (prior to just reposting your first post in this thread was this:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=91587.msg2410210#msg2410210
Which was refuted yet again here:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=91587.msg2410238#msg2410238

If that was how it worked, you would only see the sun for a very limited period of time, no more than a few minutes each day, and for large regions of the world, they would be in perpetual darkness.
Any location would only have daylight for a few days of the year at most, and only for a brief period each day.

So it has nothing to do with you not wanting to repeat yourself and instead is due to your inability to defend your fantasy and your lack of integrity to admit that.

I think I got a perfect or near perfect score. I can also visualize in 3D how to build something. So when someone tells me there is a curve and I go through memories of the path I walked or drove, I can compare it to the route I drove, and everything I saw on the way, and it doesn't match up, yeah... it doesn't match up to reality.

A visual memory for recognising symbols on a map is quite different to recognising massive curves as you move along them.
Notice they are 2 different things? One is being able to notice the curve, the other is memorising a map.

Since you think you are so good, have your friend draw a very long line with sweeping curves in both directions.
Then have you come in blindfolded to the start of the line, then only looking straight down at the line (with blinders to prevent you looking either direction) walk along the line. Then once you reach the end have them hand you a sheet of paper and a pen, and have you draw that line from memory. Then see how close you get.

You could even have them draw a large arc of a circle, and you need to tell what angle it is.

They rejected the truth then, just as you reject it now.

Wrong again.
You are the one rejecting the truth.
You are the one clinging to a fantasy and constructing more elaborate fantasies to try to deflect from your inability to defend your fantasy.

You don't really know that the Earth is flat, you say.

I KNOW that Earth is not flat.
I know that you cannot know that Earth is flat, because Earth is not flat.
Your complete inability to honestly present an argument in favour of a FE or against a RE also demonstrates you likely don't know Earth is flat.

You rely upon blatant lies about the FE.

I also don't bother with that "really" BS. You don't know. No need for qualifiers.

Or, you don't really know that 5G microwave energy causes harm! The sun has microwave energy, honest! Yeah, I do. I've felt palpitations at like 4am and feeling really hot and gross.

Congrats, you felt palpitations. How does that show 5G is causing harm?

You, as they did, make up crap and push it as doctrine. But people know what they have experienced!

And projecting yet again.
That is exactly what you have been doing.
Even constructing elaborate fantasies about what I have experienced so you can dismiss me.

You are a liar.

Nope.  You’re just too stupid to realize you lie and buy into lies.

Again..

Sun is no longer visible because it has set.

This video..

Flat Earth Sunsets - Should the Sun Shrink?



Is debunked here..

Video. Should we see the sun Shrink.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92080.0



Your cited video totally ignores the actual movement of the sun.

. The video also in no way mentions, uses, invokes your nonexistent parabola.  How would lines ever be parallel in your parabola delusion.

  And yes, on a flat earth the sun would change apparent size.

One, it would be changing distance the entire day from the viewer. The cut off by the horizon argument is not a valid argument.

Two.  It’s been modeled and calculated again and again the sun would not set on the dimensions of a flat earth.

Sorry.  You cited a bad source with invalid arguments that totally ignores the actual motion of the sun throughout the day.