crescent moon question

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Kami

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #150 on: March 11, 2023, 08:13:48 PM »
I never meant I rely solely on firsthand experience.
I meant I don't blindly accept the word of "experts."

Well, then you lied...

You cannot get your knowledge from secondhand or thirdhand sources.

And, again, none of this explains:

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

These are the questions posed in this thread and 9 pages in, you still haven't even remotely answered them. Try again.

How does it not?

Your own... oh wait, that was DataOverflow... his own model shows that when light hits the dome, it brightens all parts of it. In other words, when light hits a dome, it brightens the whole sky, and if the sun projects itself into the dome, you see the image of the sun, even though it is actually outside. From existing round earth theories, you already know that the sun is not where it appears to be, as it appears to be extremely close.  Yet if it is so distant, it would need to be in multiple places at once. Why do I say that? Because the moon has to move around the entirety of Earth and arrive at the orther side within 12(ish) hours. I've done the math and this isn't right.

Earth's circumference: 24,901.461 mi
Earth's diameter: 7926 mi
Moon's orbit speed: 2,288 miles per hour
North Pole to South Pole: 12,430 miles

To go completely around the supposedly round Earth we get a circumference. Circumference is roughly Dπ (that is, 7926 x 3.14...) right so that's a complete circuit. You'll also note that this is roughly 12 times the moon's orbital speed. Sorry, 10.8833041958042. I'm saying this because I want you to notice something. This is the amount of a complete circuit around the Earth. In other words, in 10.883 hours, it should move from my town, eventually out of sight, and then back into sight. But because the other side of the world is halfway across, this is actually half the circumference, as we discovered when I found out that distance from North Pole to South Pole. That is, 24901.461 / 2 = 12450.7305 / 2288 = 5.441752840909091, that is the moon should be visible in the sky for only 5½ hours.

So let's check out the sky! I'm on Richmond outskirts, so...
10:35 pm moonrise, 9:57 am moonset.  Moon is out anywhere from 11 to 14 hours. The moon is moving nearly twice what it should because apparently scientists cannot do math. Btw, all of these numbers can be easily obtained online.

Damn, you got us. All those scientists all over the world have not thought about doing this simple calculation!

Sarcasm aside, you are showing how little you are understanding the globe earth model. The moon moves around the earth roughly once per month. The moon rising and setting is due to the earth spinning. Maybe a little indoctrination education would do you well...

EDIT: Just to add: If you want to do RE math, use RE values. The moon's distance to the earth is about 384 000 km, it is not barely above the surface of the earth.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2023, 08:28:44 PM by Kami »

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #151 on: March 11, 2023, 08:30:24 PM »
I never meant I rely solely on firsthand experience.
I meant I don't blindly accept the word of "experts."

Well, then you lied...

You cannot get your knowledge from secondhand or thirdhand sources.

And, again, none of this explains:

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

These are the questions posed in this thread and 9 pages in, you still haven't even remotely answered them. Try again.

How does it not?]

You still haven't addressed the questions. No one is asking about globe earth. We're asking about flat earth.

And, again, none of this explains:

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

These are the questions posed in this thread and 9 pages in, you still haven't even remotely answered them. Try again.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #152 on: March 11, 2023, 11:05:27 PM »
How does it not?
Because it requires a physical dome, with the light being a reflection, which shows up in multiple locations, and it in no way even attempts to explain the phases.
Nor does it make any attempt to explain the location of these magical projections.

his own model shows that when light hits the dome, it brightens all parts of it.
No, it didn't.
It showed it creates a few bright spots.

From existing round earth theories, you already know that the sun is not where it appears to be, as it appears to be extremely close.
Absolute garbage.
It doesn't appear close.
If you wish to assert such garbage, try explaining how it appears close.

Yet if it is so distant, it would need to be in multiple places at once. Why do I say that? Because the moon has to move around the entirety of Earth and arrive at the orther side within 12(ish) hours. I've done the math and this isn't right.
And like always, you are just spouting delusional crap.
The moon isn't the one moving.
Earth is rotating, at a rate of just over 15 degrees per hour.
It isn't the moon moving to the other side of Earth, it is Earth rotating so the other side faces it.

You know this is a part of the RE model, so why spout such delusional garbage?

How about instead of just spouting ignorant garbage, where you pretend the RE has a flat and stationary Earth, you try refuting the actual RE model, or defending your delusional FE model?

that is the moon should be visible in the sky for only 5½ hours.
And more delusional BS based upon your past delusional BS.
You are just pulling numbers from no where, with no sane justification at all.
Once more, as it is Earth rotating causing the majority of the motion, with roughly half of Earth seeing the moon at the same time, someone on the equator should see the moon for roughly 12 hours,

The moon is moving nearly twice what it should because apparently scientists cannot do math. Btw, all of these numbers can be easily obtained online.
It isn't that science can't do the math, it is that you are spouting delusional garbage with no connection to reality.

As I say, I personally know better having gone year after year to an amusement park in southern New Jersey.
If you know better, that means you are intentionally lying yet again.
So do you know better?
Or are you so pathetically deluded that if you look at a building from a merry go round, the stationary building is racing around you?

An experiment in Einstein's relativity. If I am riding on a spinning object, I will still be able to tell the difference between a still and a moving object.
Not necessarily you as a human.
But instruments, like Foucault's pendulum and laser ring gyroscopes certainly can, and they do measure Earth's rotation.
We also see it in things like large scale weather systems.

So that just confirms Earth is rotating and it isn't just the moon running around at great speed.

In film, they have green screen. But maybe it's more helpful to visualize the holodeck room in Star Trek.
No, lets stick to reality, unless you want to claim Earth is the creation of an incredibly advanced alien race....

This is what I mean by a dome.
Yes, absolute fantasy to try and force it to work, as you no sane explanation.
You are relying upon pure magic.

If you wish to use that as your delusional explanation, then tell us what magic is causing this hologram and causing it to follow us.

And it still has no explanation for the phases of the moon.

The motive for round Earth?
To actually explain reality in a rational way.


Perhaps if your imaginary evil POS didn't want people to believe in a RE, it shouldn't have made your fantasy Earth behave exactly like you would expect a RE to.

It deliberately operates on insane perspective physics.
So your evil POS intentionally made the world to con people?
Is that your story?

But let's say you're right! We know from study if light wavelengths that you are not, because different colors of the ultraviolet spectrum travel different lengths before we cannot see them.
Again, pure BS.
That is your fantasy you keep on repeating, because you can't handle reality.
You have NOTHING to support that delusional BS of yours.

For the sun to be... 93 million miles away means all available light would break down before it even entered Earth's atmosphere.
Why? Because you say so?
How about you provide the evidence that it magically breaks down, along with a mechanism for it, and the equations required to determine the distance it will take light to magically break down.

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #153 on: March 12, 2023, 12:56:48 AM »
Bulma, so where is this crescent moon? The daytime sky or night time sky, to begin with.

I'll tell you what, how about one of us film the sun with the crescent moon also in the same daytime sky, and you can explain to the forum how if both are only 1000km high, the sun doesn't illuminate the whole moon, and is only illuminating a crescent of the moon?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 04:06:26 PM by Smoke Machine »

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #154 on: March 12, 2023, 05:35:49 AM »
To prove that I actually do accept certain information, let's ask the internet.

https://www.answers.com/astronomy/What_determines_the_angle_of_a_crescent_moon
Quote
it is on an angle of 50 degrees to the left

There you are. I would have said 45 degrees but okay.




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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #155 on: March 12, 2023, 09:13:57 AM »
To prove that I actually do accept certain information, let's ask the internet.

https://www.answers.com/astronomy/What_determines_the_angle_of_a_crescent_moon
Quote
it is on an angle of 50 degrees to the left

There you are. I would have said 45 degrees but okay.

You still haven't addressed the questions. It's become increasingly apparent that you can't answer these most basic questions, but let's try again...

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #156 on: March 12, 2023, 10:46:57 AM »
To prove that I actually do accept certain information, let's ask the internet.


Funny. With the earth as spherical and part of a large heliocentric solar system machine.  Instead of “moon” projection and needed ad hoc magics to explain things like earth’s tides. Explanations often contradicting each other.  With the heliocentric model the bases of the mechanics of our solar system, things like phases of the moon, tides, solar eclipses, lunar eclipse become predictable.  Accurate future forecasts can be made.  Items useful to my hobbies and daily life.


What good is flat earth to me?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2023, 10:49:26 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #157 on: March 12, 2023, 01:10:41 PM »
To prove that I actually do accept certain information, let's ask the internet.
https://www.answers.com/astronomy/What_determines_the_angle_of_a_crescent_moon
Quote
it is on an angle of 50 degrees to the left
There you are. I would have said 45 degrees but okay.
You mean ask the internet a highly specific question which already matches your delusional BS?
Where it gives an answer which is pure nonsense.
The crescent moon is not just a single angle.
It is a range.

So was your goal to demonstrate that you accept information that you already believe, or which is close enough to it?

How about you try to explain what this angle is, and how it magically causes the phases of the moon?

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #158 on: March 12, 2023, 11:03:53 PM »
Quote
Funny. With the earth as spherical and part of a large heliocentric solar system machine.  Instead of “moon” projection and needed ad hoc magics to explain things like earth’s tides. Explanations often contradicting each other. 

That's right. Your explanations do often contradict each other. You tell us the Earth is round like a beach ball. Any test ever shows that the only time a beach ball holds water is if you fill the inside, gravity or no gravity. You tell us the Earth spins around. Now water is whipping around at our faces. You then tell is that the atmosphere can be poked through by space ships. If I did that with a beach ball, it would spring holes. We're to assume instead that the water curves, even though I cannot get it to do this on any container I have.

None of the things you tell us are at all repeatable.

Sherlock Holmes said, "Remove the impossible, and whatever remains, no matter how implausible, must be the truth."
When we look at all that crap you said above, it is clearly delusional bullshit. Do my observations perfectly explain every facet of reality? I never said they do.  However, the holographic universe theory works significantly better than trying curve water.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-flat-Earthers-keep-repeating-that-water-doesnt-curve-if-none-of-them-has-ever-proved-it

Why do they keep repeating it if none of them has ever proved it? Ummm, maybe because they have proved it, except in some imaginary off the end of the curvature model.  Fill a bath with water. You can notice the same behaviors over and over. Even if you put some monstrous underwater glass dome, you can't get water to curve.

The only thing you can do is get water to turn (e.g. like in a water ride). To curve means to arch against gravity in a manner similar to making a hill of water. And before you say, "Of course we have curved water, just look at waves!" No. Waves are water being pushed. Find me one hill of water, that doesn't collapse immediately.

Nothing about your theory makes sense, starting with its idea that we have normal buoyancy in a world where water curves. But good luck with that!




Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #159 on: March 12, 2023, 11:49:32 PM »
Quote
Funny. With the earth as spherical and part of a large heliocentric solar system machine.  Instead of “moon” projection and needed ad hoc magics to explain things like earth’s tides. Explanations often contradicting each other. 

That's right. Your explanations do often contradict each other. You tell us the Earth is round like a beach ball. Any test ever shows that the only time a beach ball holds water is if you fill the inside, gravity or no gravity. You tell us the Earth spins around. Now water is whipping around at our faces. You then tell is that the atmosphere can be poked through by space ships. If I did that with a beach ball, it would spring holes. We're to assume instead that the water curves, even though I cannot get it to do this on any container I have.

None of the things you tell us are at all repeatable.

Sherlock Holmes said, "Remove the impossible, and whatever remains, no matter how implausible, must be the truth."
When we look at all that crap you said above, it is clearly delusional bullshit. Do my observations perfectly explain every facet of reality? I never said they do.  However, the holographic universe theory works significantly better than trying curve water.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-flat-Earthers-keep-repeating-that-water-doesnt-curve-if-none-of-them-has-ever-proved-it

Why do they keep repeating it if none of them has ever proved it? Ummm, maybe because they have proved it, except in some imaginary off the end of the curvature model.  Fill a bath with water. You can notice the same behaviors over and over. Even if you put some monstrous underwater glass dome, you can't get water to curve.

The only thing you can do is get water to turn (e.g. like in a water ride). To curve means to arch against gravity in a manner similar to making a hill of water. And before you say, "Of course we have curved water, just look at waves!" No. Waves are water being pushed. Find me one hill of water, that doesn't collapse immediately.

Nothing about your theory makes sense, starting with its idea that we have normal buoyancy in a world where water curves. But good luck with that!

That the Earth is a globe is not a theory, it is a fact. Your hypothesis that the entire Earth is some flat pancake, has been disproved.

Your comments about tipping water onto a beach ball, or filling a beach ball, or rocket ships flying through the skin if a beach ball, is so brain numbing, it is beyond words. Can you at least try to understand the globe earth model and how gravity works on it, because you have just provided evidence you don't have a single clue.

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #160 on: March 12, 2023, 11:59:38 PM »
None of the things you tell us are at all repeatable.

You still haven't addressed the questions. It's become increasingly apparent that you can't answer these most basic questions, but let's try again...

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #161 on: March 13, 2023, 12:39:08 AM »
That's right. Your explanations do often contradict each other.
Quite the opposite.
The RE, HC model is coherent, and doesn't contradict itself.
Instead, you just spout delusional BS about it to pretend there is a problem, because you can't show an actual problem with it.

Conversely, the multitude of FE models repeatedly contradict each other.

Any test ever shows that the only time a beach ball holds water
And another pathetic deflection from your complete inability to defend your delusional BS.

You sure do love repeatedly deflecting with whatever delusional BS you can come up with, all to avoid the simple fact that in your delusional fantasy you cannot explain the phases of the moon at all.
When you see questions about it, you need to flee from the issue.
Truly pathetic, and it just shows how pathetic your fantasy is.

If Earth actually was flat (and you had good reason to believe Earth was flat), and you weren't just spouting so much delusional BS, you should be able to explain the moon's phases quite easily, or at least have the integrity to admit you have absolutely no idea how it works and they are strong evidence for a RE.

And another example of your blatant dishonesty.
Any test INSIDE EARTH'S ROCHE LIMIT, shows exactly what you would expect, water being drawn to Earth.
As the gravitation attraction towards Earth is much greater than the gravitational attraction to the beach ball, water will fall to Earth, so this is 100% consistent.

You tell us the Earth spins around.
At the incredibly slow speed of ~1 revolution per day, making the acceleration perceived from it roughly 0.03 m/s^2 if I recall correctly, as an extreme at the equator, where it acts in a direction opposite gravity, making people feel lighter, and elsewhere on Earth it acts in a direction such that the combination of gravity and that gives you the direction of down.
And this rate of rotation is pretty much constant, only varying by tiny amounts from various things, meaning it will not cause water to go flying around.

You then tell is that the atmosphere can be poked through by space ships.
No, we don't.
This is your delusional BS of a dome.
We say the atmosphere is a gas, and as a gas, objects can move through it.

None of the things you tell us are at all repeatable.
Sure they are, just not in your intentionally dishonest tests.

Sherlock Holmes said, "Remove the impossible, and whatever remains, no matter how implausible, must be the truth."
And we have removed the impossible, the delusional BS of a FE.
What remains is a RE, with your irrational garbage removed from it, in which not only is it possible and the truth, it is plausible.

When we look at all that crap you said above, it is clearly delusional bullshit.
And more dishonest BS.
When we look at the crap YOU say, it is clearly delusional BS.
That includes both your dishonest attacks against the RE, and your pathetic attempts at explaining things on your fantasy disc.

Do my observations perfectly explain every facet of reality?
They don't perfectly explain anything.
They are pretty much no more than a baseless assertion to try and force your delusional flat land to appear like a sphere.

Conversely, the RE model explains so much of reality.

Why do they keep repeating it if none of them has ever proved it? Ummm, maybe because they have proved it
No, they haven't.
Not even at the small scale.
Instead, they have been using tools too pathetic to detect the curve, and intentionally ignoring the curve in large scale experiments which quite clearly demonstrate it.


Fill a bath with water.
And the curvature expected over that distance is on the order of nm.
That is entirely insignificant compared to the minor disturbances which can cause waves several mm high.
Conversely, try a large scale system several km (more than 5) distant, where we observe water blocking the view to a distant object, and getting higher allows us to see around the curve to see that distant object.

To curve means to arch against gravity
No, it doesn't.
That is just more delusional BS from you.

Nothing about your theory makes sense
Except you are unable to show a single fault with it.

starting with its idea that we have normal buoyancy in a world where water curves. But good luck with that!
You mean something that makes perfect sense.
Gravity creates a force proportional to mass.
This creates a pressure gradient which results in water seeking a level around the gravitational potential well, adopting a curved surface.
And this also applies to any fluid, not just water, and that includes gases.
The distinction is that gases don't have a clearly defined surface, and instead a certain pressure will form a curved surface, and you can do that for any pressure in the pressure gradient, and the pressure gradient will also cause gasses to compress (liquids compress but only a tiny amount).

An object inside that fluid will also be exposed to the pressure gradient, with a greater force on the bottom pushing up than on the top pushing down.
This results in an upwards buoyant force.
If you do the math, that buoyant force equates to the weight of the fluid displaced.
If the buoyant force is greater than the downwards force due to gravity, the object floats upwards.
Otherwise it sinks, but with a reduced apparent weight.

Just what part doesn't make sense?
That it doesn't match your delusional fantasy?
Because guess what? It doesn't need to match your delusional BS to make sense.

Now stop with the pathetic deflections and mountains of dishonest, delusional BS and either clearly explain what causes the phases of the moon or admit you have no idea.

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #162 on: March 13, 2023, 01:18:13 AM »
Quote from: bulmabriefs144 link=topic=91500.msg2397289#m

That's right.

Yeah.  You just completely ignored the context of the post.  And you being a coward ran away from the main point / theme of the post.

With the heliocentric model the bases of the mechanics of our solar system, things like phases of the moon, tides, solar eclipses, lunar eclipse become predictable.  Accurate future forecasts can be made.  Items useful to my hobbies and daily life.


What good is flat earth to me?

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2023, 06:25:31 AM »
None of the things you tell us are at all repeatable.

You still haven't addressed the questions. It's become increasingly apparent that you can't answer these most basic questions, but let's try again...

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

I've answered that question.

You didn't like the answer, so you pretended it wasn't an answer.

When you are living inside a hologram dome and the same phases of the real moon are projected from outside the hologram, everyone sees the same image. Because the same image travels across the Earth, nothing about it changes.

Compare this to the insane timing required if RE supposedly does the same. The Earth is supposed to orbit the sun while the moon orbits it. Is the moon going to stay in the same phase during all of this orbiting and rotation? No it is not.

When sun and moon line up, you have a perfect circle. Go ahead, find a lamp. Make a circle by cupping your hands together. Now move your hands from not in the path above the lamp (new moon), to progressive levels of being in the path. It will slowly go to crescent, then gibbous, then full. Then if you keep moving it will move out. Proven. By shadow puppetry.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 06:31:36 AM by bulmabriefs144 »




Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2023, 06:42:40 AM »

I've answered that question.


A magical projection that doesn’t explain what is witnessed and documented?

That brings its own problems?

« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 06:51:50 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2023, 06:59:44 AM »
None of the problems demand people who are south of the equator hang like bats or water behaving in a funny way or sun and moon being two different sizes but yet having a near perfect line up during an eclipse.

So whatever those problems are, I accept them. I'll be glad to explain any problems you claim are part of the system.

And to a large portion, the RE doesn't explain what is witnessed either.
We don't witness the sun and moon being  grossly different in size (only different amounts of light), nor does there seem to be a difference between the sun being the subject  of orbit (not orbiting) and the moon orbiting. Both objects appear to be the same process. Since any stage hand knows the difference from an entire stage set to slowly turn while a light is fixed on them, and a pivoting light, you're gonna have to explain why they look the same.

Documentation means nothing if it doesn't tell the truth of observations.




Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2023, 07:19:55 AM »
None of the problems demand people who are south of the equator hang like bats

Why would they hang on like bats?

Why are there rocks all over the sphere of mars? And the moon? 

or water behaving in a funny way

You mean like high tide, low tide, tide coming in, tide going out, tidal bores that you have no explanation for.  Other than lie?



or sun and moon being two different sizes but yet having a near perfect line up during an eclipse.


You mean two physical three dimensional objects of different size at different distances from earth?   With it known and proven the sun undergoes fusion to produce radiation, heat, and charged particles.  With the moon being a physical object that reflects  sunlight like jets flying around, meteorites, comets, the planets, and man made satellites in orbit that weren’t in the night sky 100 years ago? 

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2023, 07:26:56 AM »

And to a large portion, the RE doesn't explain what is witnessed either.


Really. Please show how flat earth predicts tides and currents for fishing and shipping.


Please.  By all means show how I can use FE to accurately predict the phases of the moon.  The phases of Venus.   The movements of the planets.   The wobble in earth’s rotation.  How the use of an equatorial mount is practical for using a telescope and astronomy.  Accurately predict solar and lunar eclipses.  Accurately predict the orbits of comets, their brightness, and if they will be visible to the naked eye.  And meteorites. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 08:54:02 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #168 on: March 13, 2023, 08:29:28 AM »
None of the things you tell us are at all repeatable.

You still haven't addressed the questions. It's become increasingly apparent that you can't answer these most basic questions, but let's try again...

- How everyone on the planet, regardless of their location, sees the same phase of the moon. Your model does not address this.
- How the moon phases occur. Your model does not address this.

I've answered that question.

You didn't like the answer, so you pretended it wasn't an answer.

When you are living inside a hologram dome and the same phases of the real moon are projected from outside the hologram, everyone sees the same image. Because the same image travels across the Earth, nothing about it changes.

Compare this to the insane timing required if RE supposedly does the same. The Earth is supposed to orbit the sun while the moon orbits it. Is the moon going to stay in the same phase during all of this orbiting and rotation? No it is not.

When sun and moon line up, you have a perfect circle. Go ahead, find a lamp. Make a circle by cupping your hands together. Now move your hands from not in the path above the lamp (new moon), to progressive levels of being in the path. It will slowly go to crescent, then gibbous, then full. Then if you keep moving it will move out. Proven. By shadow puppetry.

No, you're still not answering the questions because you leave out the only thing that is being asked, the mechanics...Anyone can just say, "Oh, it's a hologram projected on a dome with giant hands making arc'd shadow puppets..." That means nothing without the mechanics.

- Who or what is doing the shadow puppetry to cast the moon phases?
- Who or what is manning the projector?
- Where is the projector? Where is the moon image that is being projected?
- How does the shadow puppeteer schedule/time the moon phases?
- You've said before, crazily, that everyone has their own parabola umbrella over their heads, now there is just one big one?
- What evidence do you have that any of this actually exists?

So far, you've explained nothing. You might as well just be saying, "Moon phases? Oh yeah, Selene, daughter of Hyperion and Theia, and sister of Helios and Eos, handles that - Division of labor within the family biz."

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Kami

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #169 on: March 13, 2023, 09:36:03 AM »
When sun and moon line up, you have a perfect circle. Go ahead, find a lamp. Make a circle by cupping your hands together. Now move your hands from not in the path above the lamp (new moon), to progressive levels of being in the path. It will slowly go to crescent, then gibbous, then full. Then if you keep moving it will move out. Proven. By shadow puppetry.
Tried it. Did never get a crescent shape. Only a venn-diagram-overlap-like shape.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #170 on: March 13, 2023, 01:22:16 PM »
I've answered that question.
No, you haven't.
Instead you provide vague garbage which doesn't actually explain anything.
For example, you boldly claim the phases are caused by an angle and alignment, but fail to explain just what angle you are measuring or how this angle creates the various phases.

You claim the moon is projected, but fail to explain what it is projected on and how, and how this allows everyone to see it the same.

You aren't providing explanations or answers.
You are providing vague BS to avoid the issue.

Compare this to the insane timing required if RE supposedly does the same. The Earth is supposed to orbit the sun while the moon orbits it. Is the moon going to stay in the same phase during all of this orbiting and rotation? No it is not.
There is nothing insane about it.
No, the moon is not going to stay the same phase during all this orbiting and rotating.
Instead, the orbit of the moon around Earth, results in the phase changing, just like we observe.

So you find predictions matching reality to be insane?

Why not be honest, the part you find "insane", is that it doesn't fit your delusional BS.

When sun and moon line up, you have a perfect circle. Go ahead, find a lamp. Make a circle by cupping your hands together. Now move your hands from not in the path above the lamp (new moon), to progressive levels of being in the path. It will slowly go to crescent, then gibbous, then full. Then if you keep moving it will move out. Proven. By shadow puppetry.
No, it wont.
This is very easy to understand and has been explained to you repeatedly.
What you will actually have is a circle being intersected by another circle.
Again, instead of a crescent moon, you would expect the red region in this picture:


More problematic, this means instead of a solar eclipse, we should see a full moon, and as soon as it is away from the sun, we should see a new moon.
So the vast majority of the time, we should see a new moon, i.e. no moon, and then only during when we observe a solar eclipse should we see any other phase.

So you have failed to explain any of it.
Instead you have provided vague BS to pretend you have an answer because you know you cannot explain it.

This is why I say you are spouting vague BS rather than providing an answer.
It is TRIVIAL to see your alleged answer is BS, yet you keep on making it.


And more pathetic deflection from the issue at hand. You must really be scared at your complete inability to explain the moon with how much you need to flee from it and how much BS you need to make up about the RE.
None of the problems demand people who are south of the equator hang like bats or water behaving in a funny way
Nor does the RE.

sun and moon being two different sizes but yet having a near perfect line up during an eclipse.
As opposed to having them magically changing size to produce both annular and total solar eclipses, and requiring all sorts of extra BS to make it work.
There is really nothing more special about having the ratio be roughly 400 than having the ratio be roughly 1.
The difference is that the ratio of 400 actually works to explain what is observed.

So whatever those problems are, I accept them. I'll be glad to explain any problems you claim are part of the system.
The problem is that you can't explain anything.
So you happily accept a model which can't explain anything, all to cling to a fantasy of a flat Earth so you can pretend you are important.

And to a large portion, the RE doesn't explain what is witnessed either.
Yet you can't explain any of that.

We don't witness the sun and moon being  grossly different in size
We don't witness the size directly, not unless you want to accept the people who have gone to the moon, and the probes sent near the sun.
Instead, we observe their relative positions and how it varies in a manner that clearly demonstrates they are very different in size.
In both cases, you don't witness it.

And notice your dishonesty, you switch from RE doesn't explain what is witnessed, to something that isn't witnessed to pretend there is a problem with the model.
What is actually witnessed, the thing you are implicitly appealing to, is that the sun and moon both have an angular size of roughly 0.5 degrees.
And that observation is explained by the RE model.

Can you actually provide an example of something that is witnessed that is not explained by the RE model?
Or can you just pull this dishonest bait and switch BS?

nor does there seem to be a difference between the sun being the subject  of orbit (not orbiting) and the moon orbiting.
Again, notice how this isn't something witnessed not being explained?
Well one big difference is the orbital period.
But ultimately, if you are going from visual observations of just the sun and Earth, you aren't going to be able to tell the difference.
You need something else.
And for the solar system, we have all the planets.
The motions of the planets makes pretty much no sense at all if we have Earth fixed.
But if we have the sun as the centre of the solar system, with all the planets orbiting the sun, then the paths do make sense.
So the difference is not in the visual observations, but in the explanatory power.

Since any stage hand knows the difference from an entire stage set to slowly turn while a light is fixed on them, and a pivoting light, you're gonna have to explain why they look the same.
No, you are going to have to explain why they should appear different. Especially considering your example is complete crap which in no way reflects the issue.

Try having your pathetic model actually match the solar system, where for both models you have a series of stars in the background very far away, effectively stationary (unless you want to appeal to parallax their motion is insignificant); and then for the HC model a stationary light in the centre, with a viewer circling around it, such that their orientation is not fixed to the circling (i.e. if they were to be looking at a particular background star, that wouldn't change as they circled); vs the GC model where you have a stationary viewer, with the light circling around. Noting that in both cases the light would be a light bulb, not a spotlight.

From a visual POV, assuming the background stars are far enough away, you can't tell the difference.
If you think you should be able to tell the difference, explain how.


Again, we have the RE model, which accurately explains so much of reality; vs your delusional garbage, which pretty much can't explain anything. You can't even explain something as simple as the phases of the moon and need to resort to continually spouting so much delusional BS.

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #171 on: March 14, 2023, 12:13:47 AM »

No, you're still not answering the questions because you leave out the only thing that is being asked, the mechanics...Anyone can just say, "Oh, it's a hologram projected on a dome with giant hands making arc'd shadow puppets..." That means nothing without the mechanics.

- Who or what is doing the shadow puppetry to cast the moon phases?
God is doing a puppet show. Are you not entertained? I suppose you go around asking magiciand to reveal their secrets too. Let's face it. If it can't be quantified, and put into a box, you pretend it doesn't exist.
God is infinite. Now what does this mean mathematically?
Well you get infinity when you have a series that has no set end. 1, 2, 3,4... or 2 4, 6, 8... or 10, 20, 30, 40...
The thing is math regarding infinity always become irrelevant, because inf x 2 = inf, as does inf / 2. Because infinity cannot run out, there is no half infinite or double infinite. Measuring the scale of what God creates is absurd.

- Who or what is manning the projector?
Projector is an unfortunate word. There is a real sun and moon. And there is the projecting of the image of that object. In a very real way though, you are. It's the sense of your diseased mind that convinces you that this is a 3D moon. Nuh. "All the world's a stage..." You are an actor, stuck in the idea that if you deny you are living in a play, it can somehow be real. Kayfabe.

- Where is the projector? Where is the moon image that is being projected?
Beyond the dome your eyes and your brain created.
- How does the shadow puppeteer schedule/time the moon phases?
The same schedule as is observed already. But to be more specific, the sun is on a fairly strict day night cycle with typically the amount time the sun rises and sets only a few hours different the entire year. The moon is more erratic in its time and angles, but can be said to progress along these angles.
- You've said before, crazily, that everyone has their own parabola umbrella over their heads, now there is just one big one?
Formless Realm, Form Realm, Desire Realm.
There is an atmosphere. That is the parabola of the entire sky. This is the Form Realm, where the true shape of objects exists. We live inside the Desire Realm. If we are caught in desire, we only see within it. But if we are able to overcome this world we want, we are able to understand the Form Realm. The Formless Realm is for ideas and principles outside the physical. Beings that 

- What evidence do you have that any of this actually exists?
When you wish to know something that is beyond science, you study philosophy. Philosophy leads to logic and reason, which in turn mean that you understand ideas without having to be told. For example, if you are shown a small dinosaur carcass and it bears a striking resemblance to a a chicken skeleton mixed with a lizard tail, you don't need a professor to tell you that. Simple logic means you know what each skeleton look like, and connect them based on characteristics.  Never having any grasp of logic mean all of this is lost on you.
So far, you've explained nothing. You might as well just be saying, "Moon phases? Oh yeah, Selene, daughter of Hyperion and Theia, and sister of Helios and Eos, handles that - Division of labor within the family biz."




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JackBlack

  • 21797
Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #172 on: March 14, 2023, 01:12:52 AM »
God is doing a puppet show. Are you not entertained?
No, why would we be?
Is the best answer you have that your imaginary evil POS is just screwing with people, making Earth appear like its round?

You have no explanation at all, and need to resort to pure magic?
Why should anyone believe that delusional BS?

When you wish to know something that is beyond science, you study philosophy. Philosophy leads to logic and reason, which in turn mean that you understand ideas without having to be told. For example, if you are shown a small dinosaur carcass and it bears a striking resemblance to a a chicken skeleton mixed with a lizard tail, you don't need a professor to tell you that. Simple logic means you know what each skeleton look like, and connect them based on characteristics.  Never having any grasp of logic mean all of this is lost on you.
And your delusional BS is in no way supported by logic or reason.
Logic and reason tells us you have run out of ideas, and need to resort to pure magic to explain your delusional fantasy.

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2023, 01:33:45 AM »

When you wish to know something that is beyond science, you study philosophy. Philosophy leads to logic and reason, which in turn mean that you understand ideas without having to be told.

Yet.  The solar system at our level works as a large predictable machine.


Your model doesn’t even actually produce or predict a crescent moon. Nor does it predict tides driven by a very real moon with mass.

And your model doesn’t actually explain comets, and predict their travels, and when they can be seen with the naked eye.

What good is flat earth to me in my hobbies of observing the solar system while contemplating its creation.

You making yourself god and dictating how the solar system works in your delusions while ignoring its most basic mechanics is not honoring creation.  You have made your delusions bigger than the reality of our solar system. 







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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #174 on: March 14, 2023, 02:56:15 AM »

No, you're still not answering the questions because you leave out the only thing that is being asked, the mechanics...Anyone can just say, "Oh, it's a hologram projected on a dome with giant hands making arc'd shadow puppets..." That means nothing without the mechanics.

- Who or what is doing the shadow puppetry to cast the moon phases?
God is doing a puppet show.

Wow, this is one of biggest FE crash & burns ever.

Q: How do the FE moon phases work?
A: God

I can't think of an FEr failing this hard in all the time I've been kicking around in this space. Nice work burying the lead - You could have just opened up with this on page 1.

Well, considering that it's fully confirmed you have no clue regarding an FE explanation, I guess the topic is closed. Thanks for playing and losing. Another mark in the globe earth win column.

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Kami

  • 1160
Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #175 on: March 14, 2023, 08:43:41 AM »
I agree that we can close this thread, I find the explanation "everything is powered by gravity, the solar system is a precise machine that we can explain + predict decades into the future" much more believable than "god does it with magic and wants to fool you all into believing what you see, you just have to close your eyes and believe in god!".

I will probably regret this, but I am curios:

When you wish to know something that is beyond science, you study philosophy. Philosophy leads to logic and reason, which in turn mean that you understand ideas without having to be told. For example, if you are shown a small dinosaur carcass and it bears a striking resemblance to a a chicken skeleton mixed with a lizard tail, you don't need a professor to tell you that. Simple logic means you know what each skeleton look like, and connect them based on characteristics.  Never having any grasp of logic mean all of this is lost on you.
Bulma, sorry if I'm a bit lost, but where is this different from science? To make this conclusion you'd need to know what a chicken skeleton looks like, and ideally also a few other skeletons of animals that look similar, just to be able to exclude that you are not mistaking the chicken skeleton for something else. I.e. you need to know the basics of the field you are studying to make sure that you are not making simple mistakes. Learning about the basics and then making your own conclusions based upon available data is pretty much exactly what science is doing (or at least supposed to do, unless we are all paid shills from big government that have nothing better to do in our lives than to hide the shape of the earth), no?

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #176 on: March 14, 2023, 08:53:37 AM »
Who else would? Advanced ancient aliens? Natural forces?

Yeah, you're denying the simple truth here.

What I'm describing is simulacrum. Such things are closer to magic, not science.
 




You think that it is a fail, but you haven't bothered to ask yourself one question.
"Why is this my best explanation?"

The reason is, that the laws of perspective are completely inconsistent with what would be the case if we were looking at an Earth orbiting the sun, while a moon is orbiting us. With only 2D shadow puppetry, we have managed to show that it is perfectly possible to create the shadow of a moon. 

What sort of being would be needed to set up this elaborate false reality?

Not ancient aliens. They would have power only comparable to humans, and even if we considered advanced technology, there is the matter of setting all of this up. You see, something would have to create these ancient aliens, unless they are somehow godlike. But if you're interested in that theory, check out the film Moonfall.

And no natural explanation either. As shown by AI drawing experiments, random creation leaves something to be desired.





So yea, God really is the best answer.




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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #177 on: March 14, 2023, 09:34:43 AM »
What I'm describing is simulacrum.

You mean:
[/i]sim·u·la·crum
noun
an unsatisfactory imitation or substitute.[/i]

That seems to sum up your point of view.
 
The reason is, that the laws of perspective are completely inconsistent with what would be the case if we were looking at an Earth orbiting the sun, while a moon is orbiting us.

How so?

With only 2D shadow puppetry, we have managed to show that it is perfectly possible to create the shadow of a moon. 

You have yet to show anything. Why don't you video your sky daddy shadow puppetry solution.

So yea, God really is the best answer.

It's not an answer at all. It's a fail. Why not just apply that to everything in science, physics, you name it. How does grass grow? God...

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Kami

  • 1160
Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #178 on: March 14, 2023, 10:29:11 AM »
You think that it is a fail, but you haven't bothered to ask yourself one question.
"Why is this my best explanation?"
I would say an explanation that only requires one fundamental law to perfectly describe all observations within our solar system to a sub-percent precision is pretty good. "God did this and I don't know why" is not.

Quote
The reason is, that the laws of perspective are completely inconsistent with what would be the case if we were looking at an Earth orbiting the sun, while a moon is orbiting us. With only 2D shadow puppetry, we have managed to show that it is perfectly possible to create the shadow of a moon. 
I really can't see how you have shown either. You have stated this and have been refuted.
Quote
What sort of being would be needed to set up this elaborate false reality?
Why is a being required for reality to exist? Where does that being come from?
Quote
Not ancient aliens. They would have power only comparable to humans, and even if we considered advanced technology, there is the matter of setting all of this up. You see, something would have to create these ancient aliens, unless they are somehow godlike. But if you're interested in that theory, check out the film Moonfall.
You speculate about things you have no clue of (don't worry, noone does), and package these speculations as if they were facts.

Quote
And no natural explanation either. As shown by AI drawing experiments, random creation leaves something to be desired.
What does AI art have to do with evolution?

Quote
So yea, God really is the best answer.
God is an excuse for not having an answer. Nothing more.

I would still like to know how your example of philosophy, logic and reasoning is in any way different from science.

Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #179 on: March 14, 2023, 12:19:21 PM »
What I'm describing is simulacrum.

You mean:
[/i]sim·u·la·crum
noun
an unsatisfactory imitation or substitute.[/i]

That seems to sum up your point of view.

Where'd you get that definition from? It's inferior.


Quote
A simulacrum (plural: simulacra or simulacrums, from Latin simulacrum, which means "likeness, semblance") is a representation or imitation of a person or thing.[1] The word was first recorded in the English language in the late 16th century, used to describe a representation, such as a statue or a painting, especially of a god. By the late 19th century, it had gathered a secondary association of inferiority: an image without the substance or qualities of the original.

But the pre-19th century definition has no mention of inferiority. It's just fake. Flying Spaghetti Monster is a simulacrum of God. It's clearly something manmade. But so is any image that we pathetic humans try to make. There is a real model of the moon, and the shadow we get when stuff reflects the model. God's simulacrum is shitty, but it's something we could make ourselves in thousands of years of civilization. In other words, if God's play set is shit, the kinds of sets we humans can make are typically wooden particle board crap.
 
The reason is, that the laws of perspective are completely inconsistent with what would be the case if we were looking at an Earth orbiting the sun, while a moon is orbiting us.

How so?

Maybe if you actually listened, we could have decent conversation.

With only 2D shadow puppetry, we have managed to show that it is perfectly possible to create the shadow of a moon. 

You have yet to show anything. Why don't you video your sky daddy shadow puppetry solution.

So yea, God really is the best answer.

It's not an answer at all. It's a fail. Why not just apply that to everything in science, physics, you name it. How does grass grow? God...

Lemme know when science can make grass grow. It can only make it grow better (fertilizer), make rain at the expense of something else (irrigation/cloud seeding), or the like. Science has yet to create one instance of abiogenesis. And if it did, it would be wholly due to hard work on part of scientists. In the mean time, no amount of dumping chemicals in a vat will produce even one cell. Just one cell is all manner of chemicals working together to produce tissue that can make a cell, and cells in turn working to make life. when we mean grass growing, we mean thousands upon thousands of cells working together to make one blade of grass do photosynthesis.

Scientists have yet to make even one cell from an entire vat. Humans didn't make this. It doesn't happen naturally by random chance. That leaves aliens and God. Aliens are created creatures. So...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2023, 12:22:26 PM by bulmabriefs144 »