crescent moon question

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Unconvinced

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2023, 07:31:00 AM »
There are plenty of people who don't have college credentials yet earned experience on the job. Or educated themselves at the library. This doesn't like good on paper, but the results of this effort are pretty obvious.

But that’s not you, is it?

You are the person outside the library with a sandwich board and megaphone shouting to passers by that everything in the library is lies.

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2023, 12:06:09 PM »
I don't have an "ego" as you suppose.
You most certainly seem to, rejecting reality because it makes you insignificant, with you instead clinging to a delusional fantasy which makes you much more significant compared to the universe.
If it isn't ego, it is fear.

Do I know "better" than someone who has all sorts of cartography awards?
No, you don't.
You continually spout all sorts of delusional BS, while fleeing from reality; choosing to remain wilfully ignorant of so much, all so you can cling to your delusional fantasy.

If you actually knew, you would know what equalarea means in terms of a projection.
But instead you either have no idea, or you pretend not to.
You make all sorts of delusional claims about map projections of a sphere.

If you actually knew, you would know that countless different projections of Earth onto a flat plane, all of which have significant distortions, and none of which accurately portray the entire Earth without accounting for those distortions; while a globe shows Earth accurately without distortions, means that Earth CANNOT be flat, that it MUST be round.

at some point you're gonna reduce 10 x 10, 5 x 20, 2.5 x 30
And another great example of you not really knowing anything.
You want 2.5 x 40.

You fail at some of the most basic things.

Every distortion means inaccurate distance between points.
Only if you are too stupid or ignorant to account for the distortions.

Now again, stop with your pathetic BS about maps, and instead explain how the phases of the moon work, or admit that so far the only viable explanation is that Earth is round and the moon is far away.

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2023, 12:29:37 PM »
You think because people are from long ago and have credentials, they must be right.

I'm not assuming they are right. It's just that we've had about 300 years of building upon what they created and low and behold, it all seems to check out. You know, world transpo by air and sea of goods and humans, that minor thing.
Everyone uses their maps to get around. So yeah, 3 centuries of accurate utility seems to cause one to lean into their correctness. But yeah, you looking up a word in a dictionary and unraveling all that is pretty much Nobel worthy. You should let the ocean fairing and airline industries know that they are using the wrong maps and that they've just been lucky with their fuel calculations and such given that planes aren't dropping out of the skies and ships aren't floundering in the middle of the oceans by the 1000's every day.

So you try to pull rank on me, then give mean a blatant redefinition of a word. I've seen you cry foul when I make my own definitions for religious things, because they aren't what you learned in Sunday School.


Definitely makes sense that, since you've done the surveying, the calculations, the transformations, the design, and execution of world maps, you would know better than some dumass "experts" like Mercator and Lambert. Of course that makes sense. I mean you looked up the word "equal" in a dictionary and have determined that the entirety of the world's mapping, you know, the maps that everyone on the planet uses to transport humans and goods 24/7/365, are wrong. Yes, that totally makes sense.

I know about map distortion. I also know that if you're gonna distort a map, you shouldn't use words like "equal." It makes you a dumbass.


Yes, those dumbasses that created the foundation of all the maps that everyone on the planet uses today are yes, in fact, straight up idiots. They're obviously wrong as we all know, maps don't work. Mercator's Google, Apple, Yahoo, OpenStreet, Microsoft, Nat Geo, Nautical Charts maps are all wrong, for sure. Lambert's equal area maps, used extensively by the allies in WWII for air and naval activities, especially in the Pacific theater, were all wrong. Everyone knows that.

It's amazing that anyone or anything actually gets anywhere with these mapping abominations.

In the mean time, explain the moon phases. And maybe tell us how far it is from Virginia to Seattle in the air and how you arrived at that figure. Maybe NYC to Paris too. For starts.


Do I know "better" than someone who has all sorts of cartography awards? Yes, apparently I do. Because they and you apparently didn't have a good geometry teacher. I studied alot of rules and theorems in geometry.

My goodness, you're an ego maniac and daft to boot. Mercator and Lambert, cartography awards"? That was their contribution? What you don't understand about anything, and I mean ANYTHING, is utility. You have no concept of field tested, so to speak.
Mercator and Lambert cartography creations, innovations, projections, and achievements are the core foundation of what every map today is built on. All planes, all ships, all maps (google, apple, Nat Geo, bing, yahoo, open, etc.), use their projections and rely on WGS and/or NAD datum, all utilizing spherical coordinates systems. The world over. Get it? All. The world over. And quite successfully.

So then you come along and say that since you learned geometry in junior high, you know better than the entire world.

That being the case, simple question, what is the distance from New York City to Paris? You can use miles or km, your choice.

Oh, and btw, you still haven't explained the above (and below) image.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2023, 01:53:59 AM »
There are plenty of people who don't have college credentials yet earned experience on the job. Or educated themselves at the library. This doesn't like good on paper, but the results of this effort are pretty obvious.

But that’s not you, is it?

You are the person outside the library with a sandwich board and megaphone shouting to passers by that everything in the library is lies.

No, I'm this guy.



If you remember the name of the movie this is from, I will respect you as a person.

(No? Say Anything...)

Though no, that's not quite true. I'm about as ambitious as John Cusack's character, but I know about as much as the girl. Meaning the stuff that I know is primarily self-taught. I have no credentials and seek no credentials. But I'm one of those people who has bizarre skills in viticulture and marketing (even though I couldn't advertise a pen to you due to severe social disorder, I understand the principles of how economy of market works). I can look at a map for a few seconds and tell you immediately why it is wrong. You can't do that, your cartographer friend can't do that.

It is not because I'm arrogant. It's because I know exactly what I can do, and what I can do is connect skills from different disciplines in a certain way to come to conclusions. Like your own map, you put everything in a "equal area" box. Only there are no boxes. My fifth grade science teacher taught me that everything is connected. Shortly after that, I figured out an algebra type equation before they'd even taught us algebra. I don't remember the problem but I remember the teacher's name was Mrs Redfern. She was a good teacher, and was right. Religion and science are connected, so are religion and philosophy, math and history, things that your little boxes think are separate. As long as you see branches of knowledge as separate, your conclusions will always be limited. But I don't see the branch.

I see the tree.

And it helps me pay attention to everything.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 02:05:19 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2023, 03:36:21 AM »
Maybe because it's an image based on faulty assumptions?

If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome, then it makes perfect sense that we'd all see the same side of it. If however, the moon is a three-dimensional object, as you think, then you tell me, why do we only ever see one side of it. I'm not talking about phases. I'm talking about never seeing what NASA says is the real other side of the moon. In China, I would have been in position to see the other side of the moon. I didn't. Tidal locking is one thing, but a three-dimensional moon just isn't what we see. We see shadows that convince our eyes it has an edge. That's all.

No, but I can look it up. The distance from New York to Paris can almost be found by the Earth's radius, that is it is nearly halfway across the Earth. Earth's radius is 3,958.8 miles.

You know what? Without  looking, I guessed "three to four thousand miles, roughly the same distance as New York to California." California to New York is short of three thousand miles, at 2844 mi or so, depending where in New York or California. But yeah, my guess was better than your math, putting me right dead center between two relevant numbers.

New York to Paris? 3,626.98 mi.

Figured out just by guessing at roughly Earth's radius, which about half of 7000 or so (diameter). What? You though that boxes where useful for determining distance? Nah, most distances on Earth are around 3000 to 4000 miles anyway. This is because you can go around Earth (this doesn't provide a round Earth, it only proves rounded flat space) and when you get far enough, you can usually go the other way. Even New York to Russia is only about 1000 miles more.

Utility, you say, but you don't realize that if you never plan to go to New York again, and Paris is probably the last place you'd visit, that information is just trivia. none of that matters though, if you neither have a boat, nor a plane. You hire someone to take you, and they use GPS, meaning they don't have to know either.

Here's a useful tidbit. Much more useful in fact. We don't have an agreed upon distance to the South Pole from the North Pole. But wait, haven't we "explored the South Pole"? I think you can immediately see why this info is useful. It should be a straight line between two exact points. But if they are lying, this should have multiple numbers. Only doing miles.

12,436.81 mi
https://www.distance.to/North-Pole/South-Pole
12,436.12 mi
https://www.distance.to/North-Pole

Wait, same website and they are off by more than half a mile?

Quote
If you go from pole to pole through the Earth, the distance is approximately twice the semi-major axis length (6,356,752.314 m)
Meters to miles: 3949.903. Double that, so 7899.806. Uhhhhh... Okay, if the Earth was round, this is about the expected distance between the two points, given the diameter. Sure whatever.

Why would drilling a hole through the Earth get you a difference of nearly 5000 miles? That's like arbitrarily saying there is a hill of water far larger than Everest, or that people flying the planes are veering around some big hidden continent.

12436.2 miles
https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from/north-pole/to/south-pole
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Distance between North and South Pole is 13832.88 km. This distance is equal to 8595.35 miles, and 7464.21 nautical miles
https://www.distancefromto.net/between/North/South+Pole

Same website, totally different amount

12,430 miles
https://www.travelmath.com/distance/from/South+Pole/to/North+Pole

Off by 6 miles from the typical measure.

12,416 miles or 7900 miles through Earth's center
https://www.answers.com/general-science/What_is_the_distance_between_the_North_Pole_and_the_South_Pole
Off by 20 miles

Oh, and the same search told me the equatorial diameter of Earth is 7,926 miles but when you measure circles of latitude, they tell you...
Quote
The Equator's covers a distance on the Earth's surface approximately 24,901 miles long
This is accurate (though not exact), if you multiply the length across by pi actually. I thought it was absurd that the  distance across was so much different.

So what they're doing is measuring vertical diameter x 1/2π, then spitting out a generic answer based on the presupposition that the the distance straight down in one direction is half of a circle.
12,402.69542 miles (34 miles off)

They are lying. Even without seeing the anamalous 8595.35 mile measurement, we get these kinds of measurements when people are basing things on calculation which is in turn based on assumptions. Like that the Earth has a vertical curvature in the first place. They haven't been there.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 03:44:07 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2023, 03:45:46 AM »

 Meaning the stuff that I know is primarily self-taught.

You mean self imaged and a bit self indulgent.

You have no demonstrable proof the earth is flat in your context. 

Such as why would a laser rangefinder be accurate in your parabola delusion. 

And broadcast towers on the horizon show no lensing effects / visual distortion.

How would sight based surveying techniques even work?

Where there is overwhelming evidence the earth is spherical and demonstrably so.

What was your reply to this post?
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=91148.msg2395336#msg2395336

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2023, 03:53:10 AM »


If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome,

Then how did I get an image of the moon like this?   With no visible effects of being projected through a dome?





It has every indication from shadowing to the shape of craters to being a real three dimensional spherical object.

Theirs is no indication the images from my telescope and camera of an object that being from a projection through a dome.  Note, added.  Distorted by your delusional parabola. 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 05:01:03 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2023, 05:11:47 AM »

If however, the moon is a three-dimensional object, as you think, then you tell me, why do we only ever see one side of it.

I bet I can quote the answer from posts already made on this website.

How did you refute such posts? 

What’s with FE’s acting like certain things have never been addressed.






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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2023, 05:37:20 AM »

If however, the moon is a three-dimensional object, as you think, then you tell me, why do we only ever see one side of it.


To expand on old arguments


Quote
Libration

In lunar astronomy, libration is the wagging or wavering of the Moon perceived by Earth-bound observers and caused by changes in their perspective. It permits an observer to see slightly different hemispheres of the surface at different times.

-Skip a bit-

Parallax libration depends on both the longitude and latitude of the location on Earth from where the Moon is observed.
Diurnal libration is the small daily libration, an oscillation due to Earth's rotation, which carries an observer first to one side and then to the other side of the straight line joining Earth's and the Moon's centers, allowing the observer to look first around one side of the Moon and then around the other—since the observer is on Earth's surface, not at its center. It reaches less than 1° in amplitude.[4]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libration


As usual.  You ignore key details and create a myth to argue that myth.  While you ignore reality.

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #99 on: March 05, 2023, 12:28:10 PM »
Maybe because it's an image based on faulty assumptions?

If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome, then it makes perfect sense that we'd all see the same side of it.

Where are they projected from? Where are these source images of the sun and moon housed? How is the projection controlled? Who is moving the images around and making the phases?

Still doesn't answer this issue:


Depending on where an observer is on earth, the projected moon on a dome would be warped. It's not.


New York to Paris? 3,626.98 mi.

Where'd you get that number from? I'm guessing from here:



Utility, you say, but you don't realize that if you never plan to go to New York again, and Paris is probably the last place you'd visit, that information is just trivia.

Yes, no one goes to NY or Paris...What kind of a weird troll kick are you on? Literally the dumbest sentence I've read in a while.

none of that matters though, if you neither have a boat, nor a plane. You hire someone to take you, and they use GPS, meaning they don't have to know either.

You do realize that GPS wasn't publicly availble until deep into the 1980's, right? Literally the second dumbest sentence I've read in a while.

What did people do prior to GPS?

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #100 on: March 05, 2023, 01:07:01 PM »
It is not because I'm arrogant.
It most certainly is.
You are incredibly arrogant, wanting to think this world was made for you, rather than you being insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
You think your brief search for something will give you more knowledge than someone who has spent a quite significant time working in that field, with you then boldly proclaiming things to be wrong or false or lies and so on, based upon nothing more than your pathetic cursory glance.

You do not know what you can do.
Instead you massively overstate your ability to pretend you can do things you can't.

All so you can pretend your rejection and replacing it with delusional BS is justified.

But it isn't.

The moon phases demonstrate this.
You start of boldly acting like you can just take the RE explanation and stick it into your delusional flat garbage and it will magically just work.
Then after that repeatedly fails, you flee from that and replace it with more pathetic BS, never actually providing an explanation for how it works in your fantasy.

You have it explained why your claims are delusional BS, you are unable to find a single fault with them, so you flee from them, only to come back a short while later and make the same refuted BS claims.

So don't bother coming here and claiming you aren't arrogant.

Maybe because it's an image based on faulty assumptions?
You mean the faulty assumption that Earth is flat?
Where that makes it never work?
As opposed to a model which has Earth round, which matches reality and makes the explanation works.

If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome, then it makes perfect sense that we'd all see the same side of it.
And it would then result in so many other issues it isn't funny.
Projecting it onto a dome would result in the image being distorted depending on what angle you view it from.
The only way to solve the problem is to have the moon very far away, such that it is basically the same direction for everyone.
It also raises the question of just what magic is doing this projection.

And a projection wouldn't be able to eclipse the sun, or block other objects from view.
You can't see stars behind the moon.
So you need a magical dark projection which stops the light.

Or you need to go even more insane and say the entire sky is a projection, making that projection far more complex.

If however, the moon is a three-dimensional object, as you think, then you tell me, why do we only ever see one side of it.
You have already been told why.
The moon is always over 350 000 km away.
Standing on the other side of Earth is not going to significantly alter your view.

Again, this image shows the full extent:


That tiny difference at the side, which you can't even clearly see in this image, shows the difference expected for a RE with a moon 350 000 km away.

So no, there is no issue here for the RE model.
Stop repeating the same refuted BS.

If you want to claim such BS, then provide the math to support it.
Otherwise, don't make bold claims that you should be able to see the other side from China.

Once more, it doesn't if the moon is flat or round, either way it needs to be incredible far away.

If it was close and flat, you would be viewing it from different angles, so it would appear squashed in one direction, with the direction varying depending on where you were viewing it from. This also means that the distortion would change throughout the night.
If it was close and 3D, then your argument would apply where you should see different sides of it.

Neither of these happen. This means it is very far away. So far, that moving around Earth doesn't make any significant change in the angle you are viewing it from.

Your argument is NOT against the moon being 3D. It is against the moon being close.

And because the moon's orbit is not a perfect circle, we see more than 1 half of the moon as it appears to wobble around.
And as it does that, we see parts of it change just like you would expect a spherical moon.

Not to mention so far the only viable explanation for the phases of the moon relies upon it being a sphere.

So the evidence demonstrates that the moon is spherical.
And that is without appealing to the photos of the far side.
You hire someone to take you, and they use GPS, meaning they don't have to know either.
No, they don't need to know, instead they use a tool which relies upon Earth being roughly spherical.
We don't have an agreed upon distance to the South Pole from the North Pole.
Yes we do. You not liking that wont change it.
12,436.12 mi
https://www.distance.to/North-Pole
Wait, same website and they are off by more than half a mile?
Your second link doesn't include a second location, making it worthless.
You weren't going between the north pole and south pole.
Why would drilling a hole through the Earth get you a difference of nearly 5000 miles?
Even a child can work that out.
In one case you are travelling along a straight line directly between 2 points.
In the other, you are going along the surface of Earth.
Planes don't fly through the ground.

For someone who claims to know, you sure do like acting like a moron that knows nothing.
Quote
Distance between North and South Pole is 13832.88 km. This distance is equal to 8595.35 miles, and 7464.21 nautical miles
https://www.distancefromto.net/between/North/South+Pole
Same website, totally different amount
Because you are using a completely different location.
Notice how you changed it from North Pole to North?
So instead of using the north pole, you use the North Governorate in Lebanon.

Your dishonesty knows no bounds. You are willing to outright lie to everyone, using whatever dishonest delusional BS you can to pretend there is a problem with the RE, all while entirely failing to explain something basic as the moon's phases for your delusional disc of garbage.
12,430 miles
https://www.travelmath.com/distance/from/South+Pole/to/North+Pole
Off by 6 miles from the typical measure.
As if they use a rounded number to calculate the distance. And the calculation will vary depending on exactly what you are using.
Are they treating Earth as a perfect sphere for simple math, or are they treating it as an oblate spheroid, or a geoid?
These will produce different answers.
They are lying.
No, you are.
Using whatever dishonest BS you can.
Even without seeing the anamalous 8595.35 mile measurement
No, lets keep in that blatant lie of yours, where you switched what location you were using to pretend there is an anomaly.
It shows just what level of dishonesty you are willing to use to pretend there is problem with the RE.
we get these kinds of measurements when people are basing things on calculation
So you are surprised that going to a website which calculates distances is performing a calculation.
More dishonest BS from you.

Now again, when will you stop with all this pathetic dishonest BS and start trying to explain how the phases of the moon work in your delusional fantasy?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #101 on: March 06, 2023, 07:03:11 AM »
Quote
The moon is always over 350 000 km away.
Standing on the other side of Earth is not going to significantly alter your view.

Right, it's 350,000 km away.



It might be a little close, but this is the normal view of the moon from Earth.



It shouldn't even be this big if we're talking about 350,000 km away. But I use miles, and you should too, if you don't wanna be labeled as sheeple who all fell in line when folks said "we need to use the metric system." Our country didn't put up with this.

To use a bad pun, get some damned perspective.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 07:06:38 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #102 on: March 06, 2023, 09:06:57 AM »
Quote
The moon is always over 350 000 km away.
Standing on the other side of Earth is not going to significantly alter your view.

Right, it's 350,000 km away.



It might be a little close, but this is the normal view of the moon from Earth.



It shouldn't even be this big if we're talking about 350,000 km away. But I use miles, and you should too, if you don't wanna be labeled as sheeple who all fell in line when folks said "we need to use the metric system." Our country didn't put up with this.

To use a bad pun, get some damned perspective.

As usual.  You can’t refute anything posted that is conclusive and demonstrably proves you chase after myths and lies. 

You can’t even take the time to look at the moon through binoculars or a telescope.

How you going to move goalposts/change the subject this time? 

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #103 on: March 06, 2023, 12:28:12 PM »
It might be a little close, but this is the normal view of the moon from Earth.
No, that isn't even close.
The moon appears as a circle, to everyone. Not as squashed garbage like that.

And without some idea of scale, I have no idea if the size is too large or not.

It shouldn't even be this big if we're talking about 350,000 km away.
Why?
Have you done the math to show that?

Do you understand that all it takes for it to appear the same size at a greater distance is for it to be larger?

You are trying to use your pathetic idea of a tiny moon and stick it in to reality, where it is much larger.

But I use miles, and you should too
No thanks. I will keep up with society, rather than being an ignorant fool clinging to the past.
The metric system is vastly superior to the archaic BS imperial system.


Once more, we know the moon must be very far away.
This is for all the reasons explained above.
If it was close and 3D, people would see drastically different views of the moon due to seeing different sides.
If it was close and flat, it should be squashed all over the place, and differently for different people.
This shows us that regardless of if it is flat or round, it MUST be far away.
And that aspect kills any chance of a FE model, because it should mean everyone on a flat Earth can see the moon in the same direction.

So again, can you explain the moon phases for a FE? If not, can you finally admit that you have no explanation that works for a FE?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #104 on: March 07, 2023, 06:18:53 AM »
Quote
The moon is always over 350 000 km away.
Standing on the other side of Earth is not going to significantly alter your view.

Right, it's 350,000 km away.



It might be a little close, but this is the normal view of the moon from Earth.



It shouldn't even be this big if we're talking about 350,000 km away. But I use miles, and you should too, if you don't wanna be labeled as sheeple who all fell in line when folks said "we need to use the metric system." Our country didn't put up with this.

To use a bad pun, get some damned perspective.

As usual.  You can’t refute anything posted that is conclusive and demonstrably proves you chase after myths and lies. 

You can’t even take the time to look at the moon through binoculars or a telescope.

How you going to move goalposts/change the subject this time?

As if looking through the eyes of something else is going to magically change the fact that moon is much closer than this distance.

When I know roughly how far my own eyes can see, and it is closer than I can see where I need some device, it's not gonna be farther because I can see it with the device.

If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2023, 06:25:33 AM »


If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome,

Then how did I get an image of the moon like this?   With no visible effects of being projected through a dome?




I dunno, how did you? It looks like a fake picture.



You see that green light behind everyone? That's people not seeing the night sky but a recorded image. That's not the view from a telescope, it's a projection from a projector. Not to be confused with a projection of our own perspective .

What would happen if you went to a movie the first time as an adult, having never been told that movies aren't real? "Omg, someone was shot up there." Yeah, that's how you come across to me. A city yokel. A person so educated in urban life that they think they can't be fooled just as easily as other people, who then gladly give their money to support science museums and planetariums.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 06:35:36 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2023, 11:45:12 AM »

As if looking through the eyes of something else is going to magically change the fact that moon is much closer than this distance.

When I know roughly how far my own eyes can see, and it is closer than I can see where I need some device, it's not gonna be farther because I can see it with the device.


Sigh…


Your post has nothing to do with images like this of a real three dimensional object when viewed through a telescope you can personal view….



Show ever characteristics of a real three dimensional object, not a projection on a dome.  And nothing to do with you making false claims of something I captured by video while actually physically observing the moon.


While the moon can be surveyed by radar.

Quote
Earth-based 12.6-cm wavelength radar mapping of the Moon: New views of impact melt distribution and mare physical properties

https://repository.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/9855/201051.pdf?isAllowed=y&sequence=1




Fig. 1. S-band same-sense circular (SC) polarization radar image of Copernicus crater (93 km diameter, 9.7°N, 20.0°W) and northeastern portion of its distal ejecta deposits. Note the strong radar returns from the crater floor, attributed to very rugged deposits of fractured impact melt. Image representative of PDS-deliverable products, with pointing errors corrected, beam pattern changes in brightness minimized, and edges truncated at the 22 dB point of the net Arecibo–GBT beam pattern.


And radio singles can be bounced off the moon.  With no indication of an ever present dome.


Quote
BOUNCING SIGNALS OFF THE MOON

https://hackaday.com/2019/10/01/bouncing-signals-off-the-moon/

There are hundreds of different kinds of activities to choose from. Just one is moonbounce, and [Ham Radio DX] decided to replicate a feat many hams have done over the years: communicate with someone far away by bouncing signals from the moon.

From visual observations, radar surveys, to amateurs bouncing radio signals off the moon, the moon is a very real three dimensional physical object.  With no indication of the moon being “faked” in anyway.


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #107 on: March 07, 2023, 11:53:24 AM »

What would happen if you went to a movie the first time as an adult, having never been told that movies aren't real?


You mean being perplexed by a light shining from a wall down on a screen cresting 2 dimensional images with no sense of depth, shadowing, and walking around has no real change of the 2 dimensional object compared to how you can walk around a three dimensional object.  Just walking sideways should change what is viewed of the object.

Note. Added:  I could see a grown person with good eyesight or eyesight corrected with glasses confused by “spirits”.  I don’t think any person after a minute would think a movie was solid real life three dimensional objects. 

Back to the projection thing.  As in dust clouds, meteorites, comets never interrupting the projection.  Dust particles never showing the line of projection.

Note.  Added.  Like if the earth traveled across a comets’s tail.

With recorded meteorites hitting and changing the characteristics of the moon. 

It’s ok to question unto it makes you look like a tool.  And you bulmabriefs144 look like a tool.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 01:24:24 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #108 on: March 07, 2023, 11:56:11 AM »


If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome,

Then how did I get an image of the moon like this?   With no visible effects of being projected through a dome?




I dunno, how did you? It looks like a fake picture.



You see that green light behind everyone? That's people not seeing the night sky but a recorded image. That's not the view from a telescope, it's a projection from a projector. Not to be confused with a projection of our own perspective .

What would happen if you went to a movie the first time as an adult, having never been told that movies aren't real? "Omg, someone was shot up there." Yeah, that's how you come across to me. A city yokel. A person so educated in urban life that they think they can't be fooled just as easily as other people, who then gladly give their money to support science museums and planetariums.

- Where is our Moon's projector?
- Where is the image (file) of the Moon that is being projected stored?
- How does the projector make the Moon phases?

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2023, 12:16:24 PM »
As if looking through the eyes of something else is going to magically change the fact that moon is much closer than this distance.
It isn't a fact.
It is your delusional BS you are yet to justify in any way.

Meanwhile it has been demonstrated that the moon MUST be very far away, with you entirely incapable of refuting that.

When I know roughly how far my own eyes can see
But you have already shown that you don't know, and your ability to see an object in the distance depends on its size.
So you would need to know how big the moon is to determine if you can see it.

But of course, that wont stop you from blatantly lying to everyone.


I think I will stick with what the evidence and rational thought indicates, rather than your dishonest cherry picking of things and blatantly lying about it.

You see that green light behind everyone? That's people not seeing the night sky but a recorded image.
That's the point.
It is a projection of the sky onto a dome.
And the view is distorted because of how close it is.

It was used to demonstrate that your excuse of it being a projection doesn't work.

Now again, care to address the issue and explain how the moon's phases work in your delusional pile of garbage?
Or will you finally display a shred of integrity and admit the RE model is the only viable explanation that you know of?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #110 on: March 08, 2023, 04:38:34 AM »

 Meaning the stuff that I know is primarily self-taught.

You mean self imaged and a bit self indulgent.

You have no demonstrable proof the earth is flat in your context. 

Such as why would a laser rangefinder be accurate in your parabola delusion. 

Hey dumbass (and you are one if you stubbornly refuse to understand things; you can decide not to agree but to refuse to even understand is just not), as I've told you several times before,  parabola theory is not based on distortion. It's based on perception. In other words, that rangefinder will go in a straight line all the way up to the poing where either the energy begins to scatter. Light does not curve. But it does break down. Otherwise you could just fire off a laser weapon at an unobstructed (no trees, mountains, etc just water and flatlands) and it would hit someone across the Earth. The reason light breaks down is because you cannot design something with perpetual energy and momentum. If you think otherwise try firing off an arrow from a mountain where you can see for miles, you will see it slow as it falls.



And broadcast towers on the horizon show no lensing effects / visual distortion.

Because it isn't distortion!!! It's the visual end of perception. I am describing that an object outside our ability to see it is projected into a dome. If straight ahead, what do you see? A straight line? No! If you're like me, you're probably looking at the inside of a room right now. And what you see is more of a fan out pattern. You can see below and above you slightly and from side to side without turning your head at all. If you look through a telescope, you've actually given yourself temporary tunnel vision. The dome doesn't describe all at once vision. It describes the full range of vision you would get from looking up and down, while turning at a 360 degree range. Anyone can see this parabola!

And it looks like you admitted that the picture of electric lines over the water curving is a hoax.


How would sight based surveying techniques even work?

You don't use sight to survey. You need a surveying tool to give you a straight line. The more relevant is, supposing light was affected by curvature or gravity, how could you build anything? You can't build a road longer than 3 miles (distance of curvature)! Are there roads longer than three miles? Yes, there are! Many many roads are longer than three miles. Assuming you are planning a level road, the construction managers will fire you if you try to "adjust the road to curvature" as they want a level road.

There is a so-obvious hole in tour reasoning and it starts with the basic idea that the distance we can see is not based on fixed ideas of curvature but how far an object is above the ground, and how far we the viewer are above the ground.


Where there is overwhelming evidence the earth is spherical and demonstrably so.

There is fiat evidence. Not "overwhelming" evidence.

What was your reply to this post?
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=91148.msg2395336#msg2395336

Uhhh, maybe if you paid attention, I wouldn't have to do your work for you?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 04:46:27 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2023, 05:01:42 AM »

What would happen if you went to a movie the first time as an adult, having never been told that movies aren't real?


You mean being perplexed by a light shining from a wall down on a screen cresting 2 dimensional images with no sense of depth, shadowing, and walking around has no real change of the 2 dimensional object compared to how you can walk around a three dimensional object.  Just walking sideways should change what is viewed of the object.

Note. Added:  I could see a grown person with good eyesight or eyesight corrected with glasses confused by “spirits”.  I don’t think any person after a minute would think a movie was solid real life three dimensional objects. 

Back to the projection thing.  As in dust clouds, meteorites, comets never interrupting the projection.  Dust particles never showing the line of projection.

Note.  Added.  Like if the earth traveled across a comets’s tail.

With recorded meteorites hitting and changing the characteristics of the moon. 

It’s ok to question unto it makes you look like a tool.  And you bulmabriefs144 look like a tool.

I am talking about some person who lives in a part of South America that has never been contact with technology. Who doesn't understand the idea of a play. And you kidnapped him, and showed him a movie. And then drove him back to his tribe. He would 100% tell his tribe that things he saw on the screen were real. Even if it was a science fiction.

 In fact, we have a film that explored this very concept.

Ralph Bakshi's Wizards. A movie projector is taken to a post-technology culture and played on the battleground. The opposing troops are totally demoralized. It's because they can't tell the difference between real troops and a movie shown to them.

You can't tell the difference between a reflection of an object into your own line of vision (the projection of the sun and moon), a projection on to a screen, and your own eyes. You're a rube. Not because you haven't exposure to technology, but because you're unable to question what's told to you.


If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2023, 10:17:55 AM »
The reason light breaks down is because you cannot design something with perpetual energy and momentum. If you think otherwise try firing off an arrow from a mountain where you can see for miles, you will see it slow as it falls.

Apparently this is not true. Your projected sun & moon requires perpetual energy and momentum. Does it not?

- Where is our Moon's projector?
- Where is the image (file) of the Moon that is being projected stored?
- How does the projector make the Moon phases?

*

JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2023, 01:46:06 PM »
In other words, that rangefinder will go in a straight line all the way up to the poing where either the energy begins to scatter. Light does not curve. But it does break down. Otherwise you could just fire off a laser weapon at an unobstructed (no trees, mountains, etc just water and flatlands) and it would hit someone across the Earth.
Trying to stick your delusional fantasy into reality, to try and prop up your delusional fantasy wont help you.

Earth obstructs the object.
The horizon is clear evidence of this.

Don't try pretending Earth is flat to pretend light will magically just die after some time.

More importantly, it is quite clearly pure BS based upon how far you can see.
If light did just magically die, the limits on your vision should be the same EVERYWHERE in every direction.
If something goes beyond this range, it should vanish from sight entirely (and if it is above you, it should vanish from the top down, as that top is furthest away).
Instead, we observe it disappear from the bottom up.
It also means if something goes beyond this range, there is nothing you can do to bring it back, the light has simply died so you can't see it any more. But in reality we observe that going to a higher elevation allows us to see further.

What is observed in reality is fundamentally incompatible with your delusional BS.
Instead, what is observed in reality is entirely consistent with Earth obstructing the view to distant objects.

The reason light breaks down is because you cannot design something with perpetual energy and momentum.
No one designed light.
But another, far more important, law you are ignoring is the conservation of energy. Light has energy and so it can't just magically die. It needs to transfer that energy somewhere.

So light will not just magically die like you want to pretend. Instead it will be absorbed or scattered by various things.

If you think otherwise try firing off an arrow from a mountain where you can see for miles, you will see it slow as it falls.
Due to air resistance making it slow down, which doesn't effect light.

It's the visual end of perception.
Again, there is no magical visual end of perception.
Instead it is quite simple, does the light reach your eye, with it distinct enough from the surroundings to view it, or does something block its path?

The dome doesn't describe all at once vision. It describes the full range of vision you would get from looking up and down, while turning at a 360 degree range. Anyone can see this parabola!
That is not a parabola.
That is simply the fact that we perceive the world through angular coordinates.
There is no need to invoke any delusional BS dome like you have.

And it looks like you admitted that the picture of electric lines over the water curving is a hoax.
Where?
Because you want to pretend it is a hoax as you can't explain it?

The more relevant is, supposing light was affected by curvature or gravity, how could you build anything?
You mean the completely irrelevant thing, asked as a pathetic deflection because you can't address the issue?
Curvature doesn't effect light. And the effect of gravity on light is negligible.

You also ignore the fact that this delusional BS of yours would work equally well against your delusional BS.
If light just magically breaks down after 3 miles, how could you ever build anything longer than 3 miles?

The difference between reality and your delusional BS is that if light breaking down causes the 3 miles limit, then that limit applies everywhere; while curvature causing the limit means a higher altitude (like a mountain) would provide a much larger distance.

There is a so-obvious hole in tour reasoning and it starts with the basic idea that the distance we can see is not based on fixed ideas of curvature but how far an object is above the ground, and how far we the viewer are above the ground.
So the "hole" in the reasoning, is exactly what is expected.
Just why do you think this is a hole?

There is fiat evidence. Not "overwhelming" evidence.
You wanting to ignore the evidence doesn't mean it is not there.

The very topic of this thread appears to be overwhelming evidence that Earth is round, as you are yet to provide an explanation for how the moon phases work, while the RE explains it with you unable to show a fault.
So instead you need to deflect and flee.

I am talking about some person who lives in a part of South America that has never been contact with technology. Who doesn't understand the idea of a play. And you kidnapped him, and showed him a movie. And then drove him back to his tribe. He would 100% tell his tribe that things he saw on the screen were real. Even if it was a science fiction.
Ignoring the difference between what is seen on a screen and what is seen in real life doesn't magically make it go away.
They would likely say it is spirits.

In fact, we have a film that explored this very concept.
So you are appealing to fiction to try to justify your claims?

Again, can you explain how the moon phases work in your fantasy? If not, can you grow a spine and admit that the RE is the only viable explanation you know of.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2023, 02:12:15 PM »

 as I've told you several times before,  parabola theory is not based on distortion. It's based on perception. In other words, that rangefinder will go in a straight line all the way up to the poing where either the energy begins to scatter. Light does not curve.

Then how does your parabola delusion have the strength to hide the sun, block it from view, block all its radiation (x rays to uv light), the sun’s warmth at sunset three miles to the horizon.

And in a flat earth, why is the horizon only about three miles away?

Spherical earth explains sunsets.  You parabola delusion doesn’t.  You parabola lie would make a laser rangefinder useless.  Especially for anything tall enough to be above the horizon three miles away.  Especially if your parabola delusion can hide the sun and all its radiation and all its warmth. 

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2023, 05:53:07 PM »

And in a flat earth, why is the horizon only about three miles away?


You are so unbelievably ignorant.

It is the round earth model that declares that the horizon ends at 3 miles.
https://www.healthline.com/health/how-far-can-the-human-eye-see
Quote
Based on the curve of the Earth: Standing on a flat surface with your eyes about 5 feet off the ground, the farthest edge that you can see is about 3 miles away.
Quote
Without the Earth’s curve and from higher up: You might be able to identify objects from dozens, even hundreds, of miles away.

Anyone who has been atop a mountain, even once, knows that you are perfectly capable of seeing objects more than 3 miles away. You can see several mountains of in the distance from atop the first. Great, now try to walk to them. A bit farther than it looks, isn't it? All these mountains are within three miles of each other? Not a chance!

From higher up is without the Earth's curve. There was never any curve to begin with! It was the limits of our crazy perspective.

Mount Everest could apparently be seen from 120 miles away (which somehow happened after everyone was staying indoors, not driving, and totally NOT burning fossil fuels in their own homes to stay warm, entertained, and on Zoom. So we not only have climate propaganda but also COVID medical propaganda)

So let's come down from The Hill, and find out just how far you could see from atop Mount Everest.
https://brilliantmaps.com/see-from-everest/
Quote
And the answer, in case the text above is too small, is 340km (211 miles) in any direction. This would cover a total area of 363,000 sq km (140,000 sq mi), where you could see things, roughly the same size as Germany, Japan or the state of Montana.

Quote
Interestingly, the world’s longest line of sight is not from Everest, but from Dankova Kyrgyzstan to Hindu Tagh China, a total distance of 538km (334 mi).

3 miles? Nuh. Try 300 miles.


Best comment posted.


Why don't I feel motion sick, as I ride on a ball moving at 670,568,000 mph? If I rode on a roller coaster like that, surely my eyes would explode and so would my brain. Clearly that has happened to you.
But I'll humor you, and we'll divide that speed by Earth's total circumference. Why that's only (670586000 / 24859.734)... 26974.7858123 mph. Totally plausible. I've totally been on rollercoasters that went that fast without explosive and deadly whiplash. Oh wait, no I haven't.  Also, kindly explain how Polaris always remains above us every night. Is it also moving around at 670,568,000 mph while somehow being perfectly locked overhead the Earth?

As for my question I was asked, it is only when we stare directly at the sun that its radiation affects us.  We do however get far-red light after the sun sets. So if you're thinking X-rays,you're going in the opposite end of the wave spectrum. It's too distant for those others to influence us. Closer to infrared. Likewise, it's too far away for regular spectrum light, which is why we humans see mostly black. In heavy pollution however, red light does show up.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/why-is-the-night-sky-turning-red

Saw that happen in a big city in China. The sky was legit red from all the smog and light pollution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-red
Remember, the lower the frequency, the longer the wave travels. Higher frequency stuff just doesn't carry past where we can see the sun. Oh yes, you're gonna show me some article from a Science News journal or something, that is "proof" that x-rays may move way farther than we think. Their articles are terrible, btw.

Look at how often they use "may" or "could" as a weasel word.



May have. May be.


Could be.

Isn't.


« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 06:00:30 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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Stash

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #116 on: March 08, 2023, 07:57:40 PM »
So let's come down from The Hill, and find out just how far you could see from atop Mount Everest.
https://brilliantmaps.com/see-from-everest/

Hey, thanks. You just proved a Globe earth.

At 29,000' of the observer (Height of Everest) your link says you can see 211 miles away:


Popping those numbers (Observer Height=29k', Distance to Target=211miles, Target Height=5') into a Globe earth curve calculator it matches to within 6 inches. Matches a Globe earth almost exactly to within 6 inches!



I'm proud of you for finally realizing that the earth is a Globe and actually providing evidence of exactly that. Well done!

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JackBlack

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2023, 11:47:36 PM »
And yet more completely pathetic deflection from you.

When will you grow a spine and either provide an explanation for how the moon phases or admit that the RE is the only viable explanation?

You are so unbelievably ignorant.

It is the round earth model that declares that the horizon ends at 3 miles.
No, you are just incredibly dishonest, and can never try dealing with the argument at hand.

The horizon is observed to be roughly this distance away for someone standing near sea level.
The question is WHY?
The RE can explain it, the FE needs to resort to delusional BS.

Anyone who has been atop a mountain, even once, knows that you are perfectly capable of seeing objects more than 3 miles away.
That's right. Just like what you would expect for a RE, with the horizon being a result of curvature, making the distance to the horizon, along Earth equal to arccos(r/(r+h))*r, which can be approximated as sqrt(2*r*h).
So once more, we see reality match the RE model.

But how does a FE compare?
Well with your delusional BS, you have light just magically dying after 3 archaic units. This should make the horizon get closer with altitude. e.g. when ~2.1 miles up, the horizon should only be 2.1 miles away.
So the FE outright contradicts reality, giving a completely different result.

Once more the FE fails while RE matches reality.

3 miles? Nuh. Try 300 miles.
That's right, our vision isn't magically limited to 3 archaic units before the light magically dies out.
Instead, the reason the horizon is so close is because Earth is physically blocking the view.

Great job refuting your own BS yet again.

Best comment posted.
You mean a typical garbage comment from a wilfully ignorant fool, who is happy to spout delusional BS to pretend a delusional fantasy is true?
It is a comment with complete lies.
The motion has been measured.
There is NOTHING to indicate Earth is motionless.
They should be calling BS on the BS they spouted.

Why don't I feel motion sick, as I ride on a ball moving at 670,568,000 mph? If I rode on a roller coaster like that
It would be the most boring roller coaster ever.
Do you know why roller coasters are great at making people sick? The rapid changes in acceleration.
A roller coaster travels much slower than a plane. Yet people are far more likely to get sick from a roller coaster than a plane, because the roller coaster has much more rapid changes in acceleration.

If you have constant velocity you wont feel it.
If you have gravity acting on all of you at once to accelerate you, you wont feel it.
What you feel is a force being transferred through your body.

For us on Earth, that is the force you feel as if the ground is pushing you up.
And the rotation just makes that ever so slightly smaller.

So the question shouldn't be why don't you feel motion sick.
The question should be why SHOULD you?
All you have done is appealed to a big number and pretended that should make you feel all sorts of BS, with no justification at all.

Also, kindly explain how Polaris always remains above us every night.
Firstly, it doesn't.
The pole star changed over time.
Thousands of years ago it was not Polaris.
So it is not perfectly locked.

But more importantly for this discussion, Polaris is in the Milky Way, quite close to Earth on the scale of the universe.
So that means it will be moving basically the same as Earth.
The biggest contributor to the motion of Polaris is the motion of Earth around the sun, and even that is tiny because you have a maximum difference of ~300 000 000 km, while Polaris is roughly 4 000 000 000 000 000 km away.
That is like looking at something 40 km away, and moving 3 mm to the side.

Your question is as stupid as asking why you can sit in a plane and watch the movie on the screen on the seat in front of you, while the plane is moving at almost 1000 km/hr.

As for my question I was asked, it is only when we stare directly at the sun that its radiation affects us.
You sure do love spouting delusional BS don't you?
Closing your eyes wont protect you from the sun.

We do however get far-red light after the sun sets.
No, we don't. Not from the sun.

Remember, the lower the frequency, the longer the wave travels.
Remember, that is your delusional BS, you are yet to justify in any way.

Now again, care to either explain how the sun sets, or admit you can't?

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #118 on: March 09, 2023, 01:24:52 AM »

Standing on a flat surface with your eyes about 5 feet off the ground, the farthest edge that you can see is about 3 miles.


https://flatearth.ws/pontchartrain


https://flatearth.ws/horizon-dip



Anyone who has been atop a mountain,



https://flatearth.ws/bonneville

Shrugs…

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: crescent moon question
« Reply #119 on: March 09, 2023, 04:26:33 AM »

If as I said repeatedly, the sun and moon are images projected through a dome,

Soo…



Sun coming up in the east.  Moon setting in the west.

Where is the projector for the moon?

The sun is behind me.  Shouldn’t your sun projection delusion be making another image in the west on the same screen your Moon projection delusion needs in the west for its projected image?