Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #870 on: September 23, 2023, 08:33:12 AM »

If I were to set up a crude wooden rollercoaster with two hills, and place a marble at the first hill, momentum carries it to the right and down the hill, then carries it to the right and partially up the next hill only I built it too high, so it goes left and down, carries partially left and up, and finally back and forth until the momentum runs out.

From this we know two things about forces. (1)Directionality doesn't require giving a force a new name as momentum moves the marble right down, left, and even up.
(2) Forces can and do reduce in energy as they proceed. This is because energy is not perpetual, short of miraculous things.

So what do we know about gravity? Well we are told that it's a steady force (which btw is impossible, because of the problem of perpetual energy), and yet despite it being supposedly omnipresent, creatures like birds, and aerodynamic objects can bypass it temporarily. What we supposedly know about gravity then is that propulsion and aerodynamics allows objects to fly on the air, and hollow object like balloons can float due to being filled with air.
The entire narrative breaks down when you realize these same principles are identical in the water. But here's the funny thing. Air has no water, yet buoyancy is still present. Almost as though the mechanism for buoyancy is the same with or without water. Meanwhile, despite all the nonsense about gravity in the equation it really just boils down to density and propulsion. I throw a brick into the water, it sinks straight away. But if I can skip stones, I might be able to skim a brick on the water as well.

Your theory requires the assumption of a constant that there doesn't seem to be any use for.

Bird - (propulsion + upward lift) < fluid (air): flight
Bird - (propulsion + upward lift) > fluid (air): faling

Buoyant force does not use gravity. It is the same buoyancy you'd get from sitting on a canoe. Heavier than water? You sink unless using (hydro)dynamics and movement. Heavier than air? You fall unless using (aero)dynamics and movement. Lighter than air/water? You float unless you have ballast. Think about this: an anchor inside a ship doesn't affect its speed, but it immediately stops when it is released from the boat. When a weight is released from the main body of the ship though, it pulls it down. Likewise adding water into a ship affects its hydrodynamic qualities and it lowers to get under bridges.

Bulma, I see you are trying hard to believe the Earth is not a globe and gravity is yet another lie fed to you by authority. You are making a simple concept, so unnecessarily complex, to suit your flat earth model in your mind.

It really is not that complex.

I see you agree buoyancy is an upwards force. Ok, good.

Experiment: Hold an inanimate object like a marble between your thumb and forefinger, and outstretch your arm and your hand. Now, release the marble.

What do you think will happen to the marble?

It's not going to rise into the air because of buoyancy, and keep rising, is it? It's not going to hover there in space where it was, before you released it, is it? It will drop to the ground.

Tell me, Bulma. Tell me what force causes the marble to drop to the ground?

God you're stupid. The object's mass and density are both heavier than air. This is what I mean by it not being that complex. You are the one who adds in a force of gravity after I tell you repeatedly that the formula already accounts for working with objects without invoking gravity. If every equation I did involved me inserting a Triforce (to represent God), you would be within your rights to call me stupid. And so I'm doing the same when you can't make the equation work within adding gravity.

Don't give me any stupid shit answer like it's density causes it to drop to the ground. Yes, we all know the marble has density from it's mass, but it's density isn't propelling it to the ground, is it? The atmosphere isn't crushing it to the ground, is it? Please dont insult me with Universal acceleration, either. But, a separate force is still moving it to the ground.

Yes. It is. It literally is that simple.

That separate force is what humans have decided to call gravity. Now, explain to me again, how gravity doesn't exist.

Okay, I'll explain it to you again. Gravity doesn't exist. The system of buoyancy I have says that if I have a perfect mound shape hill on top of a ball-shaped mountain mountain, and I empty a 500 gallon tank of water on the hilltop, some will go down to the left, some to the right, but when we get to the overhang, it won't just circle straight around. This is coherent with reality.

Yet "gravity" tells people that water clings to surfaces even to the surface of a ball, and will stick to the sides.




Look carefully at the globe! Do you see water anywhere but the bottom? Then they went in, and nothing was learned. And the pendulum implies a geocentric model works just fine. But they moved on, and nothing was learned. The went to Hot Wheels and nothing was learned.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #871 on: September 23, 2023, 03:54:20 PM »
Look at how a real force will act, in the same situation.
Just like gravity.

There will be two opposing forces in play - the less dense balloon, which will rise up within the more dense air, and will become more dense than air when deflated, and falls through the air, for the same reason.
That reason being gravity.

But with more inflation, and/or with a bigger metal covered balloon, both forces act as nearly the same in strength, and the balloon jerks back and forth, from the opposing forces acting on it at the same time.
No, it doesn't.

Due to the scale of both forces, it is in an unstable position.
If the force due to magnetism and gravity is greater than the buoyant force, it pulls it in closer, with the force due to magnetism increasing significantly; while the force due to gravity and buoyancy do not change significantly, so it then pulls in closer and closer until it is touching the surface.
If the force due to buoyancy is greater, then it goes up, and the force due to the magnetic field is weaker significantly while gravity and buoyancy do not change significantly so it gets further and further away.

A far better example is a weight on a spring.
But as you are discussing gravity, we can't use that. So lets use 2 magnets with a non-magnetic spring pushing them apart.
We could also use air pressure pushing against a spring, such as in a gas pressure regulator.
It may bounce around initially, but it eventually settles into position.

It doesn't just continue wildly jerking back and forth.

So instead of trying to describe real forces, you have described your fantasy.

If 'gravity' was real, and 'pulled things down from air', and 'held things down to the surface', it would act and behave like all actual forces do.
And it does.
 That's what happens when you try to invent a magical force, out of nothing, it falls apart instantly. Because it isn't real, or true.

Birds would never fly up into air, and would be held down to the surface
Only if you take their wings off.
With gravity, you just need to provide a large enough force to overcome it.

Again, this dishonest BS is like claiming if you get a fridge magnet and place against a piece of steel, it should be stuck there permanently, with no ability to remove it.
If you lined the bottom of your shoes with it, and then tried walking on a steel surface, your shoes would be stuck and you would be entirely incapable of lifting your shoe from the surface.

What you are trying to describe is magic, where gravity will magically be strong enough to hold anything and no force will ever be able to overcome it.

So perhaps you should stop trying to appeal to magical strawmen and start dealing with real gravity?

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #872 on: September 23, 2023, 04:09:34 PM »
It really is not that complex.
While I can't be sure, I think that was your overall system, not just gravity.

But even with gravity, you are making it needlessly complex.

With gravity, we have a simple force of attraction between masses, which creates a pressure gradient in fluids, which pushes things up in the fluid.
Nice and simple.

With what you have, you claim something being denser makes it fall and less dense makes it rise. But that in no way deals with the pressure gradient, so you have to have something else to stop that pressure gradient eliminating itself, and stop it from providing an upwards force to objects inside it, which would eventually end up with your model just being a downwards force proportional to mass, regardless of the density of the object.
And you need something to give it directionality.


The object's mass and density are both heavier than air.
Which doesn't mean it should fall.
It is in air, with a pressure gradient pushing it upwards.
That is the buoyant force.
So what force is there making it fall?

You are the one who adds in a force of gravity after I tell you repeatedly that the formula already accounts for working with objects without invoking gravity.
You tell us that, but then provide a formula which DOES invoke gravity.
The formula you provided was:
buoyant force = weight of fluid displaced.

That weight is the force due to gravity.

Yes. It is. It literally is that simple.
No, it isn't.
That has NOTHING to provide the directionality.

I'll explain it to you again. Gravity doesn't exist. The system of buoyancy I have says that if I have a perfect mound shape hill on top of a ball-shaped mountain mountain, and I empty a 500 gallon tank of water on the hilltop, some will go down to the left, some to the right, but when we get to the overhang, it won't just circle straight around. This is coherent with reality.
That isn't explaining anything.
That is just you boldly asserting your claim.
Explaining would be explaining what force is providing the weight to the object, what force is causing it to overcome the pressure gradient and fall to Earth?

Yet "gravity" tells people that water clings to surfaces even to the surface of a ball, and will stick to the sides.
Only in the absence of other forces, including gravitational attraction to a much larger object.

Look carefully at the globe! Do you see water anywhere but the bottom?
Stop repeating this same dishonest BS.
It has been refuted countless times.
Once more, Earth is not a tiny ball sitting on top of a much larger ball.
Earth is a massive ball in free fall well outside the Roche limit of any larger object.

What is observed is entirely consistent with what is expected.
The most significant force acting on the water is the gravitational attraction to Earth, so it goes to Earth.

Notice how even as the ball moves around, the water still goes to Earth.
There isn't some magical bottom point on the ball that all the water is going to, instead it is going to Earth.

So with your dishonest BS of pretending that is the RE, what massive object is the RE sitting on?

And the pendulum implies a geocentric model works just fine.
A rotating, round geocentric model.
Not a FE geocentric model.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #873 on: September 23, 2023, 09:39:55 PM »
But even with gravity, you are making it needlessly complex.

With gravity, we have a simple force of attraction between masses, which creates a pressure gradient in fluids, which pushes things up in the fluid. Nice and simple.

Oh really. So the fact that sidereal days are needed for the gravity/heliocentric/orbiting-rotating-wobbling Earth is simple. What about the behavior of water? In a flat Earth, water just behaves like it does in a basin.



In a sphere, "gravity" has to make it do something that it never seems to do in visible reality.

Gravity theory, along with heliocentrism and the idea of orbit requires math to determine exactly how far away the sun is from Earth to look the same size as the moon. It also needs precise distance so as not to have the Earth (which is supposedly much smaller) fall into the sun. Precise speeds, precise angles of rotation, all of that is on you, since you've decided you know best rather than leaving it to God. Oh yeah, and there's all the rule patches to gravitational behavior, like black holes, special relativity, and quantum physics. These are all developed in response to the theory of gravity. See, when you lie, you have to keep making more and more stuff to prop up that lie.

Simple? What about this is simple?

If I don't want to worry about how far away the sun is, I don't have to! I don't have to deal with sidereal days, special relativity, quantum physics, speed that Earth orbits, speed that it rotates, angles, circumference (diameter and area are the limit), or anything to do with the behavior of gravity. Because my theory actually is simple.

With what you have, you claim something being denser makes it fall and less dense makes it rise. But that in no way deals with the pressure gradient, so you have to have something else to stop that pressure gradient eliminating itself, and stop it from providing an upwards force to objects inside it, which would eventually end up with your model just being a downwards force proportional to mass, regardless of the density of the object.
And you need something to give it directionality.

Angular momentum dictates directionality. If I were to tilt a milk carton on its side, all milk inside would head 90 degrees.

The "pressure gradient" if we are talking about the same thing, is simply governed by endless layers of fluid. Air, water, earth, and lava (oh look, the four elements!) are all "fluids" even though air is a gas and the ground is a solid.  Further down you get, the greater the pressure and the more dense. Higher up you get, less pressure and less density. More dense things fall through less dense things. Less dense things stay on top. Equally dense things bob up and down.

So. And maybe. Some things are that simple.


This is why even though ice is a solid atop a liquid, whether it cracks and I fall through depends on how dense a layer the ice is, how it stacks against the water, and how heavy the person walking on it is. It's a density sandwich. Even if the ice is more dense than the person standing on it, if it's thin enough, it will cave into the water because while the person is lighter than the ice, the ice is heavier than the water.

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You tell us that, but then provide a formula which DOES invoke gravity.
The formula you provided was:
buoyant force = weight of fluid displaced.

That weight is the force due to gravity.

You keep telling me that your theory is so simple. Yet I'm the one having to fiddle around with weight and mass not being interchangeable.

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That isn't explaining anything.
That is just you boldly asserting your claim.
Explaining would be explaining what force is providing the weight to the object, what force is causing it to overcome the pressure gradient and fall to Earth?

You're attempting to force me to play by your rules. I don't have to explain by your rules, since they're tacked on nonsense to explain something that is already explained by the conditions of its state. And I've explained it above in this post. And I've explained it in previous posts. I'm not playing by your rules because you're stupid and can't understand how something can work without tacking on an artificial, and frankly inconsistent, "force" in order to get things to fit your model. But you have to keep tacking on nonsense because people keep pointing out holes.

You know why there are sidereal days? I do. It's to patch over a 180 degree flaw that happens every six months. You see, if Earth is simply rotating and not in any way tidally locking, then sunrise and sunrise ought to be 12 hours off when switching from spring to fall or summer to winter. They are on opposite sides of the sun!

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Only in the absence of other forces, including gravitational attraction to a much larger object.

Mmmm Hmmmm. So if I get a battleship near a paperclip, the paperclip should "gravitate" towards it, right? Oh wait, that NEVER HAPPENS. In fact, no gravitational attraction has ever occurred between two objects on Earth. The go-to excuse for this is that Earth overrides the gravity between two objects. But if this were the case, when you went to the middle of space, this should happen.  Nope, we have "zero gravity" in all depictions of space.

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Stop repeating this same dishonest BS. It has been refuted countless times.
Once more, Earth is not a tiny ball sitting on top of a much larger ball. Earth is a massive ball in free fall well outside the Roche limit of any larger object.

You yourself just repeated dishonest BS. Every other real force is able to be DEMONSTRATED. Magnetism? Sure, look at these magnets here. Momentum? Same train continuing past when it braked. Buoyancy? Oh yes there is plenty of that.

But you say gravity behaves one way (making objects fall), but we can't make it also behave the second way (making liquids stick to spheres) because Earth is much bigger. Then you talk about Roche limits. Very curious when a model can't be reproduced in any practical way. It kinda sorta makes me think maybe it's actually another force.

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What is observed is entirely consistent with what is expected.
The most significant force acting on the water is the gravitational attraction to Earth, so it goes to Earth.

What I expect to have happen if gravity were a thing is that a sphere should exert even an iota of gravity, on account of being much larger and more dense than individual water droplets. Even competing with the Earth, this model Earth should have centralized gravity, and being that it is much nearer to the water than the Earth's core, there should at least be minor g-force towards the center of the object.

You expect different because you don't think. You believe propaganda.

Here's what is actually happening.


And yes, it works just as well for the Earth as it does for objects. No adjustment needed. We're assuming the water on top is rain, since in the video, all water was on the bottom. When something is real, you don't have to hand wave "well, the Earth's gravity is overriding it."

So if the Earth's gravity is overriding the center of gravity for a sphere large enough that I can't lift it myself, why is it not also overriding a bird's propulsion, forcing it to the ground? Suddenly, this force becomes inconsistent when a tiny pigeon or an incredibly heavy jet is able to "overcome gravity."

One or both of these should not be able to fly.  But if only density causes things to sink, then there is no force to overcome. This is consistent with what actually happens. Both are able to fly, but as air becomes thinner and thinner, there are flight limits to bird & aircrafts.

Awfully convenient theory you've got there. You can just adjust it to fit whatever you need. 100 ton jet needs to fly? Sure, go ahead. Water needs to stick to the southern hemisphere while it spins? Yeah gravity is in full force now.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 09:47:13 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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turbonium2

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #874 on: September 24, 2023, 03:55:28 AM »
L
If 'gravity' was real, and 'pulled things down from air', and 'held things down to the surface', it would act and behave like all actual forces do. That's what happens when you try to invent a magical force, out of nothing, it falls apart instantly. Because it isn't real, or true.

Birds would never fly up into air,

Why would birds never fly up.  All the have to do is create more lift than the weak force of gravity.  Birds that weigh just ounces.  The whole thing proportional to mass.

Now.  Hold a 50 pound weight straight out at arms length and tell me there is no gravity.  Or no force attracting things down to earth.

Must be some sort of force if you bastardize gravity into your delusional force of retuning to origin.  Reality is mass attracts mass.  Not really much different than you proclaiming earth things attract earth things.

No, all of our actual forces act the same, on ALL objects. A strong wind doesn't move an insect and a 30 ton block of concrete, say 10 feet out, as a 'proportional force to objects', that's  completely absurd!

A magnet doesn't pull in a tiny pin and a 3 ounce nail at the same speed, and same distance away, it will pull in the pin much faster, and from further away, than the nail.

But objects will all fall through air at the same rate, regardless of their mass, because all of them just require MORE mass than the air, they are within. That's why all objects fall at the same rate, being they all have more mass than air, which makes them move through the air at one rate of speed, and acceleration, which would NOT happen if there was a 'pulling down' force causing it. Objects would all fall at different rates of speed, depending on their mass.


It's ridiculous and funny, when they tell us that their made up force, adjusts it's strength to the mass of each object, like if you were in a direct line in front of a 100 ton block of steel, their magical force will 'know' it is 100 tons, and that you are 180 lbs, blocking part of the block above you, and will 'adjust' its strength to each one, somehow, defying what ALL OTHER forces do, of course.

 

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Smoke Machine

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #875 on: September 24, 2023, 04:15:58 AM »

If I were to set up a crude wooden rollercoaster with two hills, and place a marble at the first hill, momentum carries it to the right and down the hill, then carries it to the right and partially up the next hill only I built it too high, so it goes left and down, carries partially left and up, and finally back and forth until the momentum runs out.

From this we know two things about forces. (1)Directionality doesn't require giving a force a new name as momentum moves the marble right down, left, and even up.
(2) Forces can and do reduce in energy as they proceed. This is because energy is not perpetual, short of miraculous things.

So what do we know about gravity? Well we are told that it's a steady force (which btw is impossible, because of the problem of perpetual energy), and yet despite it being supposedly omnipresent, creatures like birds, and aerodynamic objects can bypass it temporarily. What we supposedly know about gravity then is that propulsion and aerodynamics allows objects to fly on the air, and hollow object like balloons can float due to being filled with air.
The entire narrative breaks down when you realize these same principles are identical in the water. But here's the funny thing. Air has no water, yet buoyancy is still present. Almost as though the mechanism for buoyancy is the same with or without water. Meanwhile, despite all the nonsense about gravity in the equation it really just boils down to density and propulsion. I throw a brick into the water, it sinks straight away. But if I can skip stones, I might be able to skim a brick on the water as well.

Your theory requires the assumption of a constant that there doesn't seem to be any use for.

Bird - (propulsion + upward lift) < fluid (air): flight
Bird - (propulsion + upward lift) > fluid (air): faling

Buoyant force does not use gravity. It is the same buoyancy you'd get from sitting on a canoe. Heavier than water? You sink unless using (hydro)dynamics and movement. Heavier than air? You fall unless using (aero)dynamics and movement. Lighter than air/water? You float unless you have ballast. Think about this: an anchor inside a ship doesn't affect its speed, but it immediately stops when it is released from the boat. When a weight is released from the main body of the ship though, it pulls it down. Likewise adding water into a ship affects its hydrodynamic qualities and it lowers to get under bridges.

Bulma, I see you are trying hard to believe the Earth is not a globe and gravity is yet another lie fed to you by authority. You are making a simple concept, so unnecessarily complex, to suit your flat earth model in your mind.

It really is not that complex.

I see you agree buoyancy is an upwards force. Ok, good.

Experiment: Hold an inanimate object like a marble between your thumb and forefinger, and outstretch your arm and your hand. Now, release the marble.

What do you think will happen to the marble?

It's not going to rise into the air because of buoyancy, and keep rising, is it? It's not going to hover there in space where it was, before you released it, is it? It will drop to the ground.

Tell me, Bulma. Tell me what force causes the marble to drop to the ground?

God you're stupid. The object's mass and density are both heavier than air. This is what I mean by it not being that complex. You are the one who adds in a force of gravity after I tell you repeatedly that the formula already accounts for working with objects without invoking gravity. If every equation I did involved me inserting a Triforce (to represent God), you would be within your rights to call me stupid. And so I'm doing the same when you can't make the equation work within adding gravity.

Don't give me any stupid shit answer like it's density causes it to drop to the ground. Yes, we all know the marble has density from it's mass, but it's density isn't propelling it to the ground, is it? The atmosphere isn't crushing it to the ground, is it? Please dont insult me with Universal acceleration, either. But, a separate force is still moving it to the ground.

Yes. It is. It literally is that simple.

That separate force is what humans have decided to call gravity. Now, explain to me again, how gravity doesn't exist.

Okay, I'll explain it to you again. Gravity doesn't exist. The system of buoyancy I have says that if I have a perfect mound shape hill on top of a ball-shaped mountain mountain, and I empty a 500 gallon tank of water on the hilltop, some will go down to the left, some to the right, but when we get to the overhang, it won't just circle straight around. This is coherent with reality.

Yet "gravity" tells people that water clings to surfaces even to the surface of a ball, and will stick to the sides.




Look carefully at the globe! Do you see water anywhere but the bottom? Then they went in, and nothing was learned. And the pendulum implies a geocentric model works just fine. But they moved on, and nothing was learned. The went to Hot Wheels and nothing was learned.

I agree with you. Your God is stupid. I see your stupid God obviously gave you your intelligence.

I asked you not to give me any stupid shit answer, but clearly you are incapable of anything else.

Honestly, how low is your natural IQ? Or does intelligence drop when one is brainwashed? I'm trying hard to penetrate that thick skull of yours.

Tell me - What makes any object heavier than air? What force gives any object weight, based on it's mass?  I'll tell you - GRAVITY. Without gravity, everything including air, would be - WEIGHTLESS. (It's like the flat earth initiation involves smearing six inch concrete all over your head covered in aluminium foil.)

If you remove as much air as possible from a sealed chamber and drop a bowling ball and feather from the same height, without air resistance, both will hit the floor at EXACTLY the same moment. This proves that a third force you refuse to acknowledge, moves everything towards the Earth at exactly the same rate. The size of the mass and it's density, are irrespective to both being moved at the ssme rate down by the same agency - GRAVITY.

Are you telling me, Bul, you are that fucking dense, you don't understand how gravity is meant to work on the globe earth model? Believe me, if density alone caused objects to fall to Earth, your head would be glued to the ground like two dynamo magnets, with your scrawny little legs sticking up in the air.

Why don't you draw for me a diagram of how you think gravity operates on the globe earth model?

For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #876 on: September 24, 2023, 03:31:36 PM »
So the fact that sidereal days are needed for the gravity/heliocentric/orbiting-rotating-wobbling Earth is simple.
Why not say it more simply?
Earth rotates while orbiting the sun.
What is complex about that?
Sidereal days vs solar days are just a direct result of that.
A sidereal day is the time it takes for Earth to rotate on its axis.
A solar day is slightly longer, the tame it takes for the sun to be over the same point.

This is not a complex process.

What about the behavior of water? In a flat Earth, water just behaves like it does in a basin.
And for a RE it does as well.
The water tries to get closer to Earth, the most massive object in the vicinity.
Nothing complex about that.

The big difference is why.
According to you there is some magical universal down which magically makes things go down for no reason at all.
You have no explanation for the directionality at all.

But for the RE, things fall TO EARTH.
We have the directionality.

Again, nothing complex there.

In a sphere, "gravity" has to make it do something that it never seems to do in visible reality.
What isn't seen?

We see water falling to the spherical Earth.
We see satellites orbiting planets.
What is missing here?

Gravity theory, along with heliocentrism and the idea of orbit requires math to determine exactly how far away the sun is from Earth to look the same size as the moon.
Except it doesn't appear exactly the same size.
The apparent size varies.

But who cares?
Regardless of what ratio you want to appeal to, you need to have that ratio.
Them being roughly the same size is irrelevant.

It also needs precise distance so as not to have the Earth (which is supposedly much smaller) fall into the sun. Precise speeds
No, it doesn't.
The formation of the solar system will naturally result in object orbiting the sun.
If the speed and size were not correct, either the matter forming Earth would have either fallen into the sun already, or have been ejected from the solar system.

Instead, you have pure magic causing the sun and moon to magically move around Earth in an extremely strange path with no cause, with a magical parabola to make it appear the same as what is expected for a RE.

since you've decided you know best rather than leaving it to God.
And invoking a god makes your BS much more complex, because you now need a incredibly powerful, etc, sentient being to control it all.
And the only "evidence" of such control is that you have no explanation for so many things.

But if you ditch the FE fantasy and go to a RE, rotating and orbiting the sun, then you don't need that at all.

there's all the rule patches to gravitational behavior, like black holes, special relativity, and quantum physics.
You sure do love spouting all sorts of crazy nonsense.
Black holes aren't patches. They are logical consequences of an inverse square law.

Special relativity is a mechanism to explain gravity, which produces slightly different results, but in normal conditions simplifies to Newton's universal law of gravitation.
And this is common with everything with science.
There are different models with different levels of accuracy.
The common example normally used to show this is the shape of Earth.
If you are just dealing with a city, for low precision things like navigating, you can use an approximation that Earth is flat.
If you want to discuss things on a global scale, you can use a perfect sphere, then an oblate spheroid, then a geoid, then including all the terrain.

Even if you want to pretend that Earth is flat, you still have the different levels of a perfectly flat surface, rough general terrain, or the exact precise terrain.

As for quantum physics, that had nothing to do with gravity.
The fact you bring that up just shows how desperate you are.

Quantum physics was brought up for a few different reasons.
One was related to the wave/particle nature of light. Quantum mechanics, having quantised particles of light (photons), which had a wave like nature, addressed those issues.
This was also shown to occur in other things, like quantisation of matter in the form of atoms, or subatomic particles. Including that these subatomic particles also have wave nature.
This lead to the development of things like semiconductors and the broad category of solid state devices. Devices which made personal computers possible.

See, when you lie, you have to keep making more and more stuff to prop up that lie.
Yes, YOU do have to keep making up more and more lies to prop your lie.
Like lying by claiming quantum physics was developed as a response to a flaw in gravity.

If I don't want to worry about how far away the sun is, I don't have to! I don't have to deal with sidereal days, special relativity, quantum physics, speed that Earth orbits, speed that it rotates, angles, circumference (diameter and area are the limit), or anything to do with the behavior of gravity. Because my theory actually is simple.
Instead you appeal to an incredibly complex magical being just doing whatever is needed to produce the same observations as expected for a RE.

Angular momentum dictates directionality.
No, it doesn't.
Angular momentum is a measure of how much an object is rotating.
Other than interaction with the air, that doesn't dictate how things fall.
If I put a flywheel in a cube, and spin up that flywheel, regardless of orientation of the flywheel (and therefore regardless of angular momentum) it falls down.

If I were to tilt a milk carton on its side, all milk inside would head 90 degrees.
i.e. still towards Earth.
i.e. in the same direction, with the milk carton not mattering.
The orientation of the milk carton is irrelevant. The milk goes down towards Earth, as if there is an attractive force attracting the milk to Earth.

The "pressure gradient" if we are talking about the same thing, is simply governed by endless layers of fluid.
The pressure gradient is the observed fact that all fluids have a higher pressure the further down you go.
e.g. if you take a soft water bottle above sea level, filled with air, and then take it down into the water, diving deep, the bottle is crushed.
This also happens in air, and any fluid in fact.
With that pressure gradient proportional to the density of the fluid.

I am NOT talking about simply stratification based upon density.
I am talking about this pressure gradient.

So instead of running entirely away from this simple observable fact, try explaining it.

We have fluid, where a high pressure is sitting below a low pressure.
Why doesn't this high pressure push upwards, to compress the low pressure above, allowing it to decompress.
When we place an object in this fluid, why doesn't the high pressure push it up?

Again, if you do the math on this pressure gradient, you end up with your magic "buoyancy" (Not actual buoyancy which is simply the effect of this pressure gradient) is just a downwards force proportional to mass, regardless of the density of the fluid.
i.e. weight.
i.e. gravity.

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #877 on: September 24, 2023, 04:03:37 PM »
You keep telling me that your theory is so simple. Yet I'm the one having to fiddle around with weight and mass not being interchangeable.
Weight and mass are not interchangeable.
If you pretend they are, you aren't making a simple model, you are just wrong.

You're attempting to force me to play by your rules.
No, I'm attempting to have you play by the rules of reality.

Your "explanation" is that things more dense should fall, things less dense should rise, and things equally dense should remain in position.
But that is without considering the pressure gradient at all.
So the pressure gradient is tacked on on top of that.
That means even some things more dense should go up, a result of the combination of your magic trying to make it go down, and the pressure gradient pushing it up.

This is what you need to address.

Regardless, you still need the explanation of why things should fall down.
All you are doing is appealing to an observation, with no explanation at all.

Why down?
Why should things with greater density go down?

If we ignore this for now, and focus on any other attempt to change the motion of something, it needs a force.
So why shouldn't this need a force?
And if it does need a force, what is this force?

I'm not playing by your rules because you're stupid and can't understand how something can work without tacking on an artificial, and frankly inconsistent, "force" in order to get things to fit your model.
You mean tacking on a consistent force (i.e. one dictated by simple laws which can easily be predicted), to make it match reality.

I'm not the one having to tack on nonsense.

You know why there are sidereal days?
Yes, and so do you.
It is because Earth rotates and orbits.
Sidereal days are a direct consequence of this.
But instead you want to repeatedly lie about this model to pretend it was entirely unexpected and it is just a patch to make things work.
But that is just your dishonest BS.

You pretend that a solar day should be a sidereal day, and then complain that they aren't.

So if I get a battleship near a paperclip, the paperclip should "gravitate" towards it, right?
Is Earth still nearby?
If so, then the attraction to Earth will still be greater.

This is not a difficult concept to understand.
Stop playing dumb.

Go take your battleship and paperclip outside the Roche limit of Earth, let them be in free fall, and then try.

The go-to excuse for this is that Earth overrides the gravity between two objects.
No, the HONEST ANALYSIS of all the forces acting clealry shows the gravitational attraction to Earth is greater.

You even tried appealing to this in an incredible dishonest way (as you were incorrect) by claiming that everything on the surface of Earth shuold be sucked into the sun.
You are exposing your own lies.

But if this were the case, when you went to the middle of space, this should happen.  Nope, we have "zero gravity" in all depictions of space.
Have you bothered doing the calculations to see what kind of attractive force would be expected?


You yourself just repeated dishonest BS.
No, I called you out on it.
You continually wish to pretend that gravity means you shoould be able to magically ignore the gravitational attraction to Earth and have something stick to a tiny ball with a much lower force.
That is nothing like other forces.

Every other real force is able to be DEMONSTRATED.
No need to say every other force.
Gravity has also been demonstrated.
You need a carefully designed setup to eliminate the effects of Earth's gravitational attraction, to then be able to measure the effects of gravitational attraction to something else.
Something like the cavendish experiment, which has allowed us to demonstrate and measure gravity.

What I expect to have happen if gravity were a thing is that a sphere should exert even an iota of gravity, on account of being much larger and more dense than individual water droplets. Even competing with the Earth, this model Earth should have centralized gravity, and being that it is much nearer to the water than the Earth's core, there should at least be minor g-force towards the center of the object.
Now instead of just leaving it as a generic "iota" try calculating it.
Just what gravitational attraction are you expecting?

Or, just do a simple ballpark calculation.
As gravity depends on the mass (proprotional to r^3), and inversely to the distance squared; if you take 2 objects of equal density, the gravitational attraction at the surface is proprotional to the radius.
So if you have a sphere which is 1 m wide, and compare it to Earth which is roughly 12 742 000 m wide, then you would expect the gravitational attraction to Earth to be 12742000 times as strong as it is to the small ball.
So if g for Earth is 9.8 m/s^2, then g for the small ball should be ~0.00000077 m/s^2.
A 1 kg weight on the surface of this sphere would exert the same force as a 0.000000078 kg = 0.000078 g = 0.078 mg = 78 ug object.
i.e. virtually nothing.
Something on the bottom of these sphere, would experiecne a force pulling it towards Earth which is basically the same as if that small ball isn't there.

We can also calculate the angular deflection.
If you have an object on the side of the ball, insted of being attracted straight down, it would experience a combined attraction at an angle of arctan(1/12742000) = 0.0000045 degrees.
i.e. basically the same as straight down.

So if you want to see this "iota" then you need something that can measure that.

You expect different because you don't think. You believe propaganda.
Wrong again.
Unlike you, I do think.
I realise just how tiny this force shouold be. So I recognised you wont be able to see it with a ball sitting in your sink.

Here's what is actually happening.
And what it lacks is any explanation at all.

And what it highlights is that your "model" is NOTHING LIKE EARTH.
In order for that to represent Earth, you need to remove that ground and have space.

When something is real, you don't have to hand wave "well, the Earth's gravity is overriding it."
When something is true, you don't need to repeatedly lie and ignore things because they are inconvient and show your model is garbage.

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #878 on: September 24, 2023, 04:05:56 PM »
So if the Earth's gravity is overriding the center of gravity for a sphere large enough that I can't lift it myself, why is it not also overriding a bird's propulsion
Because the force of gravity is proportional to mass.
A bird does not weigh the same as that large sphere, so it needs less force to get it in the air.
Can you lift the bird?

Suddenly, this force becomes inconsistent when a tiny pigeon or an incredibly heavy jet is able to "overcome gravity."
No, it doesn't.
Remove the wings and see what happens.

Both have wings to generate lift to combat gravity.

If you want to claim they shouoldn't be able to fly you will need much more than your entirely baseless assertion.


But if only density causes things to sink, then there is no force to overcome.
Then a plane and bird shuold be able to fly without needing wings. As there is no force to overcome. All it needs is a little push up to get going.
And people should be able to just jump and keep on going up, or at most just need to flap their hands to stay in the air.
But it doesn't work like that.
Instead, it is as if there is a force, proprtional to the mass of the object, pulling it to the ground.

Awfully convenient theory you've got there. You can just adjust it to fit whatever you need. 100 ton jet needs to fly? Sure, go ahead. Water needs to stick to the southern hemisphere while it spins? Yeah gravity is in full force now.
Repeating the same lie wont help you.
It is not convenient.
It cannot just be adjusted as neede.

If you want something to fly, you need to have an upwards force to overcome its weight.
If you want a more massive plane, you need wings which provide more lift, so generally larger wings.
If we could adjust it, then a 747 would have wings 1 m wide because that would be cheaper.

Again, why the southern hemisphere?
What massive body is south of Earth to attract water to it to make it the bottom?
Why shouoldn't the northern hemisphere be the bottom?
Why shouoldn't a random point on the equator be the bottom?

What is giving you your directionality? NOTHING!

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #879 on: September 24, 2023, 04:22:38 PM »
No, all of our actual forces act the same, on ALL objects.
No they don't.
Grab a magnet. Try picking up a piece of plastic with it, then try picking up a paperclip.
We observe a different force for the 2 objects.

Consider wind, try it with a 100 g ball of aluminium, and a 100 g piece of aluminium foil.
Again, different effects.

Consider static electricity.
Get a few rods made of different materials, rub them a bunch with a cloth and place them on a watch glass for a pivot.
Also have a few rods made of the same material, but rubbed differently.
Then get a final rod, rub it a lot, and bring it close to the other rods.
Observe some rods moving with a different apparent magnitude of the force, and a different direction.

What we observe is that all forces have some variable that they act upon.

For wind, it is a function of area.
For magnetism, it is a function of the magnetic properties of the material.
For static electricity, it is a function of the mass to charge ratio (including its sign).
For gravity, it is mass.

So for gravity, you would expect a more massive object to have a greater force.

as a 'proportional force to objects', that's  completely absurd!
No, your claim that it is magically all the same is completely absurd.
Here is a video example:

The chair, having much more metal, has a much greater force.

What should happen if you take your 3 ounce nail and cut it up into tiny pins?
Should these pins accelerate at the same rate as the 3 ounce nail, meaning the pin and the nail should accelerate the same; or by cutting it up have you increased the force?
Have you actually tried the experiment? Because the above shows a greater force for more metal.

For gravity, the same argument can be made.
Take 2 identical 1 kg blocks, and cut one of these blocks in half.
What should happen when you drop these 3 objects?
Should cutting it in half magically double the force and make it fall faster?
How is your strawman of gravity sentient enough to recognise the cut block as 2 objects and apply twice the force but recognise the solid block as a single object to only apply 1 times the force?

It simply makes no sense.

But objects will all fall through air at the same rate, regardless of their mass, because all of them just require MORE mass than the air, they are within.
And that greater mass means a greater force.
We also see that isn't the case. An air filled balloon falls much more slowly. A CO2 filled balloon falls faster than the air filled balloon but more slowly than most objects.
A helium filled balloon falls up.

But if we place them on a scale, it isn't simply that they fall, but they exert a downwards force on this scale to produce a reading, a force that is proportional to their mass (until you get light objects where the upwards buoyant force becomes significant).

That means these objects are exerting a force which depends upon their mass.
So something is causing this force which depends on their mass.

That's why all objects fall at the same rate, being they all have more mass than air, which makes them move through the air at one rate of speed, and acceleration
Except when you go to a different location, that speed is different, as is the reading on a balance.

which would NOT happen if there was a 'pulling down' force causing it.
Why?
Because you boldly proclaim that to be the case?
If there was a downwards force proportional to mass, you would expect objects significantly denser than the air (to negate the effect of buoyancy) to accelerate at basically the same rate in a given location. Because the mass terms cancel.

It's ridiculous and funny, when they tell us that their made up force, adjusts it's strength to the mass of each object
Wrong again.
The very real force is simply proportional to mass.
Just like all other forces are proportional to something.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #880 on: September 25, 2023, 06:42:13 AM »

I agree with you. Your God is stupid. I see your stupid God obviously gave you your intelligence.

So you admit God also handed out your intelligence. Because you don't like him as much, he seems content to make you deluded.

And smashing person's head with an icepick isn't fun. Some people don't want their brains penetrated.


Tell me - What makes any object heavier than air? What force gives any object weight, based on it's mass?  I'll tell you - GRAVITY. Without gravity, everything including air, would be - WEIGHTLESS. (It's like the flat earth initiation involves smearing six inch concrete all over your head covered in aluminium foil.)

As long as you think of objects "made" heavy, you will never get it. Mass is the natural heaviness on an object. Density is the mass per surface area, the level of compression of an object. Newton absconded the term"weight" and so now you can't use it as identical to mass. The weight of and object is its mass. It will never be anything but. Imagining gravity in other planets is a sign that there is something seriously wrong with your brain. I am an author, yet even knowing worlds that could bemade, I have a pretty firm grasp that we live in this one. Yet you think of other planets and their gravity, though you haven't been to the moon, haven't been to Mars, haven't been to Venus, or to Jupiter. You assume they will have different gravity and it will affect weight. Weight is mass. I'm reclaiming the term, and you can't have it anymore.

If you remove as much air as possible from a sealed chamber and drop a bowling ball and feather from the same height, without air resistance, both will hit the floor at EXACTLY the same moment. This proves that a third force you refuse to acknowledge, moves everything towards the Earth at exactly the same rate. The size of the mass and it's density, are irrespective to both being moved at the ssme rate down by the same agency - GRAVITY.

I have used this same idea to explain why we can't do outer space travel. You denied it up and down. The thinner the air, the less resistance light objects have. So a space ship, which has weight and can no longer propel itself through ignition, drops like a stone before it gets to Mars or to the moon. All of this is precisely the theory of buoyancy I've tried to penetrate your thick skull with. You don't likw being hit by an ice pick either, do you? Let's agree not to penetrate anyone's brain today, mkay?

Are you telling me, Bul, you are that fucking dense, you don't understand how gravity is meant to work on the globe earth model? Believe me, if density alone caused objects to fall to Earth, your head would be glued to the ground like two dynamo magnets, with your scrawny little legs sticking up in the air.

It's meant to prop up the RE model. But as I don't accept that model, I am not required to give any fucks about it. Sorry, no. Also, one of the admins warned Jack Black about his abusive tone. Not that I don't do that some, but maybe tone it down.

Why don't you draw for me a diagram of how you think gravity operates on the globe earth model?

Why should I? I don't accept even the word gravity. It refers to a force coined by "sir" Isaac Newton (scoundrels get no formal title). Nor do I like the globe Earth theory. But because I wil humor you, Earth is supposed to have gravity towards its center, which holds things like water to the ground. It is supposed to somehow prevent blood rush from all the people in Australia standing upside down because they are "not really" upside down (tell you what, I'll make a rubber ball in space, add a bubble of air to breathe, and you can show me a circus trick of balancing on the underside of the ball). It is further supposed to roll around the sun using gravity (changing the definition and behavior of gravity from falling to orbiting) because a counter force of centripetal (or was it centrigual) which does not in fact exert negative pressure but simply adds spin. So Earth should have orbited slowly into the sun by now. This while the sun travels around the galaxy, yet we have seen the same stars since ancient Greece and nobody can prove we have moved at all.

The entire thing is a crock. Yes, I've heard you guys and you explanation of how things work, but you haven't given me remotely the same respect even a post ago. This magical force of gravity says heavier objects exert on light ones, but birds if Earth has strong enough central force to cap all water leaks, should not only not fly but be pinned to the ground. Instead, a bird flies much the same way you or I swim. Its light aerodynamic body is an asset,not something gravity punishes it for.

If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #881 on: September 25, 2023, 03:43:09 PM »
Density is the mass per surface area
No, density is the mass per unit volume.
It you take a piece of alfoil, and melt it into a ball and let it solidify, they will have the same mass and density, but a different surface area.

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Newton absconded the term"weight" and so now you can't use it as identical to mass.
It was never identical to mass.

We know this because air was "weightless" yet still had mass.

The one stealing words here is YOU!
Buoyancy has always been an upwards force. A force in response to the weight of the fluid.
Yet you want to steal that word and change it to magically be upwards or downwards and entirely ignore weight.

Mass is a scalar, weight is a vector.
Weight has directionality, mass does not.

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Imagining gravity in other planets is a sign that there is something seriously wrong with your brain.
Why?
Because of how much you hate reality?

Don't worry, we don't need to imagine it on other planets. We can just imagine it at different locations on Earth, where objects with the same mass (or even the very same object) will have a different weight.

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I'm reclaiming the term
You aren't reclaiming it, you're trying to steal it.
You are doing this so you can pretend that the equation YOU provided doesn't appeal to gravity even though it quite explicitly appeals to the WEIGHT of the fluid. Not the mass of the fluid, the WEIGHT.

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I have used this same idea to explain why we can't do outer space travel.
No, you did a fundamentally different idea, based upon pure BS.
You entirely ignored how rockets work and how air resistance works to blatantly lie about the possibility of travel through space.

Quote
So a space ship, which has weight and can no longer propel itself through ignition, drops like a stone before it gets to Mars or to the moon.
Why?
Rockets work BETTER in a vacuum, not worse. Because they don't have the air pressure to fight against, exhaust goes back, rocket goes forwards. They don't have the air resistance slowing them down.

So no, a rocket can propel itself. And without air resistance trying to slow it down, it will just be following a trajectory dominated by gravity.
So it doesn't drop like a stone. Instead it travels through space like if you threw a stone.

Your delusional BS would be like saying if you throw a stone, because it doesn't have propulsion, as soon as it leaves your hand it will instantly stop and fall to the ground.
It is pure BS with no connection to reality at all.

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All of this is precisely the theory of buoyancy
You have no theory. You have a statement of observations which relies upon you ignoring plenty from reality, like the pressure gradient.

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It's meant to prop up the RE model.
No, it is meant to explain parts of it.
The RE model is backed up by so much evidence it doesn't need propping up.

Quote
Why should I?
Because you keep lying about how gravity should work.
Such as repeating the lie that gravity should magically make water entirely ignore the attractive force towards Earth and instead stick to a tiny ball in your sink.

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It is supposed to somehow prevent blood rush from all the people in Australia standing upside down
They are not upside down.
They are upside up.
They are standing with their feet on the ground, with down being towards the centre of Earth.

You have no justification at all for your delusional BS that they are upside down.
Even if you wish to appeal to a magical universal down, you have no justification for why Earth should have any particular orientation relative to this pure magic of yours.

You just assert they are upside down because you are desperate to ridicule the RE.

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It is further supposed to roll around the sun using gravity
No, it is supposed to orbit the sun and rotate while orbiting. That is NOT roling.

Quote
changing the definition and behavior of gravity from falling to orbiting
No, keeping the definition and behaviour of gravity as an attractive force, which in the absence of other forces causes an acceleration towards each other.
Earth, while orbiting, is accelerating towards the sun.

It is no more a change than changing a spring from holding an object up, to holding an object to an axis as you spin it around.

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because a counter force of centripetal (or was it centrigual) which does not in fact exert negative pressure but simply adds spin.
Pure delusional BS.
As above, Earth is accelerating towards the sun. It is its sideways velocity which keeps it from falling it as it accelerates.
Gravity is providing the centripetal force required to maintain this acceleration.
The apparent centrifugal force is a fictitious force created by considering the system in a non-inertial reference frame where Earth is not orbiting the sun and instead is just moving slightly closer or further away.
This fictitious force is an outwards force.

It isn't your delusional BS of just adding spin.

So no, Earth should not have fallen into the sun.

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This while the sun travels around the galaxy, yet we have seen the same stars since ancient Greece and nobody can prove we have moved at all.
Once more, pure BS.
We see different stars (some new ones have formed and old ones died), and they are in different positions.
The change over time is slow, but it does happen.

You ignoring that wont change it.

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The entire thing is a crock.
That does sum up your post quite well.


Quote
Yes, I've heard you guys and you explanation of how things work
And because you don't give a damn about the truth/reality, you ignore all that and just repeat the same pathetic refuted lies.

Quote
but you haven't given me remotely the same respect even a post ago.
We give you vastly more respect than you give us.
We read what you say and explain why it is wrong, responding to what you have said.
You ignore what we say and just repeat the same lies that have already been refuted.

Quote
This magical force of gravity says heavier objects exert on light ones
No, this entirely non-magical force says that masses attract each other with a force proportional to the product of the masses.
The acceleration of an object which results from this is proportional to the other mass.

e.g. if you have a massive ball with a mass of M, and a tiny ball with a mass of m, separated by a distance of r; then the force acting on each has a magnitude of F=GMm/r^2.
The acceleration of the larger mass is given by F=Ma, so a=Gm/r^2; and for the smaller mass you have a=GM/r^2.

So given a large enough mass difference, the acceleration of the larger mass is negligible and the acceleration of the smaller mass is significant.

e.g. if you have Earth, and a ball that weighs 1 kg, the acceleration of that ball to Earth is roughly 9.82 m/s^2. The acceleration of Earth to the ball is 0.0000000000000000000000016 m/s^2.

So Earth pretty much doesn't accelerate at all.
So it can be simplified as an approximation, that it is just Earth exerting a force on the object.

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if Earth has strong enough central force to cap all water leaks
What water leaks?
Are you appealing to it holding the oceans down?
If so, what force is trying to lift them up?

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not only not fly but be pinned to the ground.
Why?
Stop just asserting BS and explain WHY.

A bird is light, so the force pulling it to Earth is small.
Small enough for its wings to easily overcome.

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Instead, a bird flies much the same way you or I swim.
No, it doesn't.
How often have you seen someone try to swim by flapping arms like a bird just to stay up?
A bird flies by flapping its wings to produce lift, and at other times gliding, which also uses wings to produce lift.

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Its light aerodynamic body is an asset,not something gravity punishes it for.
Yes, because that means that the force due to gravity is less. Why would gravity punish it for being lighter?

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turbonium2

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #882 on: September 30, 2023, 12:12:53 AM »
Actual forces never do that, as I told you already.

A wind will only blow around objects with LESS mass, not those with more mass.

A magnet does not leave a small pin, while pulling in a heavy nail.

You have a fairy tale force, acting the complete opposite of all actual forces, and it is pure junk.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #883 on: September 30, 2023, 01:33:47 AM »


A wind will only blow around objects with LESS mass, not those with more mass.

In what context?

A styrofoam block can make a steel spring of a hanging spring scale elongated in accordance with Hooke’s law.


Quote
In physics, Hooke's law is an empirical law which states that the force (F) needed to extend or compress a spring by some distance (x) scales linearly with respect to that distance—that is, Fs = kx, where k is a constant factor characteristic of the spring (i.e., its stiffness), and x is small compared to the total possible deformation of the spring. The law is named after 17th-century British physicist Robert Hooke. He first stated the law in 1676 as a Latin anagram.[1][2] He published the solution of his anagram in 1678[3] as: ut tensio, sic vis ("as the extension, so the force" or "the extension is proportional to the force"). Hooke states in the 1678 work that he was aware of the law since 1660.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke%27s_law

Floating Balls - Bernoulli's Principle Visualized



What downward force is the upward air and ball reaching in a kind of equilibrium with to float the ball. 


And yet you appeal to the mass of objects return to the origin mass of earth.

It’s just modern physics has a better understanding of this phenomenon and it’s called gravity.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 03:04:43 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #884 on: September 30, 2023, 04:39:53 AM »
Actual forces never do that, as I told you already.
Actual forces never do what?
Apply a different amount of force depending upon how much of a certain property something has?

A wind will only blow around objects with LESS mass, not those with more mass.
Wrong again, it depends upon the area.
If you take a 100 g steel ball, and a 1 kg piece of alfoil, the alfoil is blown more, even though it is heavier.

In high winds, a small car can be fine, while a plane is blown away.

A magnet does not leave a small pin, while pulling in a heavy nail.
No, but as shown it generates a much larger force on the heavier and larger chair than on the small tool.

You have a fairy tale force, acting the complete opposite of all actual forces, and it is pure junk.
No, we have a real force, acting just like real forces.
The distinction is what the force is proportional to.
For wind, it is surface area and geometry.
For magnetism it is more complex, but it does vary with extent.
For electrostatics it is charge.
For gravity it is mass.

Your irrational hatred of it doesn't change that.

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bulmabriefs144

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  • Roco the Fox
Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #885 on: September 30, 2023, 12:04:57 PM »
Actual forces never do that, as I told you already.
Actual forces never do what?
Apply a different amount of force depending upon how much of a certain property something has?

He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it. Buoyancy is the opposite, causing everything less than a certain density to float and everything great than a certain density to sink.

But here you have "gravity" which targets a human but not a bird. It overlooks a jumbo jet but not a rhinocerus.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #886 on: September 30, 2023, 12:13:29 PM »


He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it.


Why is there weight in the first place.  Why can I easily hold a 20 pound baby all day. But strain to hold a 80 pound child for a few minutes.  Why does my body have to work harder to hold 80 pounds up.

Why does an ounce flying insect need to generate a few ounces of lift.  Why does a 100,000 pound jet need to generate over 100,000 pounds of lift to gain altitude. 

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #887 on: September 30, 2023, 12:17:06 PM »

But here you have "gravity" which targets a human but not a bird.

Are you saying humans can fly?  Or Birds have to generate lift. As in birds have wings that generate lift more than the force of their weight.  Where humans have no wings to generate enough light to overcome their weight. 


So.  How does something accelerate down with no force acting on it? 

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #888 on: September 30, 2023, 12:20:43 PM »


He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it.


Why is there weight in the first place.  Why can I easily hold a 20 pound baby all day. But strain to hold a 80 pound child for a few minutes.  Why does my body have to work harder to hold 80 pounds up.

Why does an ounce flying insect need to generate a few ounces of lift.  Why does a 100,000 pound jet need to generate over 100,000 pounds of lift to gain altitude.

Question. Where is this 100,000 pounds of lift?

I've been to airports. I haven't seen or felt wind force enough to shatter the airport.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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Smoke Machine

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #889 on: September 30, 2023, 01:32:41 PM »


He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it.


Why is there weight in the first place.  Why can I easily hold a 20 pound baby all day. But strain to hold a 80 pound child for a few minutes.  Why does my body have to work harder to hold 80 pounds up.

Why does an ounce flying insect need to generate a few ounces of lift.  Why does a 100,000 pound jet need to generate over 100,000 pounds of lift to gain altitude.

Question. Where is this 100,000 pounds of lift?

I've been to airports. I haven't seen or felt wind force enough to shatter the airport.

Where is this lift? It's in the jet engines and the wing shape and shape of the aircraft in general.

You've stood on the runway directly behind one of the jet engines of an aeroplane upon liftoff? Don't be so stupid - you have not.

All the answers to your questions can be found by reading books. If you don't want to read books because that's not the path of the supremely idiotic and typical flat earther, you will never know. But even if you choose to learn how to fly an aeroplane, you will have to read books and pass written exams.

At some point you will have to concede that not reading books because Sergeant Mark Sargent told you not to, is fucking stupid.
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #890 on: September 30, 2023, 02:16:47 PM »
He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it.
They are more implying that any force just applies the same force regardless of object.
They are wrong.

Buoyancy is the opposite, causing everything less than a certain density to float and everything great than a certain density to sink.
No, buoyancy is an upwards force based upon weight of fluid displaced.
The combination of buoyancy and gravity cause things to float or sink.

But here you have "gravity" which targets a human but not a bird. It overlooks a jumbo jet but not a rhinocerus.
Why insist on repeating the same lie?
Birds are denser than air, as are Jumbo Jets. So they should sink as well. So they give you the same non-problem.
As has been explained to you repeatedly, gravity acts on all objects.
Birds and planes have wings. Wings that generate lift.
That lift is what allows them to fly.

Question. Where is this 100,000 pounds of lift?
Acting on the wings, while the plane is flying and taking off/landing.

I've been to airports. I haven't seen or felt wind force enough to shatter the airport.
Why would that shatter the airport?
Yet again you just assert pure nonsense.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #891 on: September 30, 2023, 02:29:20 PM »

Canoe on a rock? Yeah it doesn't sink into the rock. Canoe on the water, floats in and above it. Canoe enters the air (e.g. waterfall)? It's not going to float on that. But some kayakers have been able to jump by paddling forward during a waterfall.

Why are these objects floating?

Floating Balls - Bernoulli's Principle Visualized



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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #892 on: October 03, 2023, 04:10:31 PM »


He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it.


Why is there weight in the first place.  Why can I easily hold a 20 pound baby all day. But strain to hold a 80 pound child for a few minutes.  Why does my body have to work harder to hold 80 pounds up.

Why does an ounce flying insect need to generate a few ounces of lift.  Why does a 100,000 pound jet need to generate over 100,000 pounds of lift to gain altitude.

Question. Where is this 100,000 pounds of lift?

I've been to airports. I haven't seen or felt wind force enough to shatter the airport.

You be stupid....


If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #893 on: October 04, 2023, 07:27:36 PM »


He's saying that an actual force targets the the limit to its weight and everything less than it.


Why is there weight in the first place.  Why can I easily hold a 20 pound baby all day. But strain to hold a 80 pound child for a few minutes.  Why does my body have to work harder to hold 80 pounds up.

Why does an ounce flying insect need to generate a few ounces of lift.  Why does a 100,000 pound jet need to generate over 100,000 pounds of lift to gain altitude.

Question. Where is this 100,000 pounds of lift?

I've been to airports. I haven't seen or felt wind force enough to shatter the airport.

You be stupid....




That's just the fans pushing the car back.

https://weighmag.com/how-much-does-a-vw-bug-weigh/
Quote
The Volkswagen Beetle is a very small car and it weighs about 1,800 pounds, give or take a few pounds.

100,000 lb is 50 tons.  Not even 1 ton was pushed back, unless the guy in it weighs 200 lb.

And it was pushed back, what 20 ft? First, this seems like propaganda. Second, try it with this.


A fifty ton truck. You think it can push that?
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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JackBlack

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #894 on: October 05, 2023, 02:41:31 AM »
That's just the fans pushing the car back.
...
And it was pushed back, what 20 ft?
As if you need to be close to the plane for it to have an effect.
So an airport terminal being so far away from it wouldn't have any significant effect.

Not even 1 ton was pushed back, unless the guy in it weighs 200 lb.
...
Second, try it with this
Is this better?

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #895 on: October 05, 2023, 04:41:32 AM »

A fifty ton truck. You think it can push that?

Evidently the 100hp to 300hp motor in the truck can get it down the road.

😂😂😂




Gearing something low enough to pull or push something on flat ground at a creep is different than generating enough speed and lift to fly. 


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JJA

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #897 on: October 06, 2023, 02:48:33 PM »
Gravity theory, along with heliocentrism and the idea of orbit requires math to determine exactly how far away the sun is from Earth to look the same size as the moon.
Yes, if you want to CALCULATE a geometric figure you need to use math.  That is how math works. If you want to know a number you use math.

Are you saying that in your flat earth hypothesis you can determine the size and position and distances of things without math or geometry?  What do you use instead, English Lit?

How far is the flat earth's surface is the moon from us right now?  How exactly do you calculate this without math?

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turbonium2

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #898 on: October 07, 2023, 09:09:16 PM »
L
If 'gravity' was real, and 'pulled things down from air', and 'held things down to the surface', it would act and behave like all actual forces do. That's what happens when you try to invent a magical force, out of nothing, it falls apart instantly. Because it isn't real, or true.

Birds would never fly up into air,

Why would birds never fly up.  All the have to do is create more lift than the weak force of gravity.  Birds that weigh just ounces.  The whole thing proportional to mass.


No, all actual forces do NOT apply different strength to match the mass of each object. That’s ridiculous

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turbonium2

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Re: Why does flat earth equate no space travel by man?
« Reply #899 on: October 07, 2023, 09:21:06 PM »
Winds do not move 10 ton blocks, but they do move light objects. Not proportional

A magnet pulls in a thin steel pin but not a 10 ton block of steel. Not proportional

If you throw a pebble and 25 lb rock with the same force, the pebble goes much further away than the rock does. Not proportional

Name any ACTUAL force that acts that way