Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity

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DataOverFlow2022

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Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« on: November 26, 2022, 05:13:33 AM »
So.  Been here a few months on this site.  It’s interesting what flat earther’s will defend to the death, and what they will completely ignore.

One of those items that gets ignored, or right out lied about, is why it’s hard to ride a bike up hill and keep up speed, and why people need to gear down on a 10 speed.  But flat earther’s can move goal posts and muddy waters.

So.  Thanks to the modern car and its fuel management system and cruse control, its quite easy to see how gravity affects a car set to a constant speed going from a flat surface to climb up a steep grade/hill.

If gravity doesn’t exert a downward force on the car, why must a car to keep its speed up use more fuel, gear down, and/or use more RPM’s to climb a step hill. 

Why does the car use more energy going from a flat surface to up hill as kinetic energy is converted to gravitational potential energy.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2022, 05:27:51 AM »
There is still a lot more about gravity that we dont know then what we do. We have yet to discover the elusive graviton. Maybe it doesn't exist or that it is impossible to detect at all

So we have a force that makes ascending a hill harder. OK. Flat Earthers disagree that this force turns everything large enough (eg our planet) into a sphere.

If Earth is special and created like some flat earthers believe, then perhaps technology or some other force we have not detected could be responsible for keeping something the size of our planet flat.

Let them have their fantasy. Besides, I guarantee you that almost every 'flat earther' you deal with is simply trolling or LARPing. They log off and laugh that somebody like you actually took them seriously

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2022, 05:55:47 AM »
There is still a lot more about gravity that we dont know then what we do.

I didn’t claim to know everything about it.

This post is more for individuals that try to argue that there is no downward force, and it can’t be measured.

However, it’s effect on cars going up hill is undeniable.

Or the strain at the should from holding a 50 lbs weight straight out at arms length, shoulder high.  And that strain can be calculated using the value of g and the physics of levers.

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We have yet to discover the elusive graviton.

Yet. We cope with gravity in everyday life.  And even engineer for it.  We counter it in elevators.  Use it in rollercoasters.  Even over come it with powered flight by generating lift.


You
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Maybe it doesn't exist or that it is impossible to detect at all

External source
Quote
Cavendish and the Value of G

https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-3/Cavendish-and-the-Value-of-G


The constant of proportionality in this equation is G - the universal gravitation constant. The value of G was not experimentally determined until nearly a century later (1798) by Lord Henry Cavendish using a torsion balance.

Cavendish's apparatus for experimentally determining the value of G involved a light, rigid rod about 2-feet long. Two small lead spheres were attached to the ends of the rod and the rod was suspended by a thin wire. When the rod becomes twisted, the torsion of the wire begins to exert a torsional force that is proportional to the angle of rotation of the rod. The more twist of the wire, the more the system pushes backwards to restore itself towards the original position. Cavendish had calibrated his instrument to determine the relationship between the angle of rotation and the amount of torsional force. A diagram of the apparatus is shown below.

External source..

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This rule applies to the Earth's gravitational field as well. Because the Earth rotates and its mass and density vary at different locations on the planet, gravity also varies.



https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_geodesy/geo07_gravity.html


You
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So we have a force that makes ascending a hill harder.

And the value of g is used in engineering to make thing’s possible, more efficient, and reliable.  As much as humanly possible.


You
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OK. Flat Earthers disagree that this force turns everything large enough (eg our planet) into a sphere.

Not really the topic of this thread.

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If Earth is special and created like some flat earthers believe, then perhaps technology or some other force we have not detected could be responsible for keeping something the size of our planet flat.

Speculation and off topic of this thread.



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Let them have their fantasy.

That’s not the problem.  They are willing to engage in debate. And use lies to push their fantasy.  That is the problem.

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Besides, I guarantee you that almost every 'flat earther' you deal with is simply trolling or LARPing.

Some.  But there is a whole Society of flat earther’s willing to put their face to the fantasy.  Then use lies to spread the fantasy.


Quote
They log off and laugh that somebody like you actually took them seriously


Shrugs?  Have proof? 

External source
Quote
Response to Globebusters - The Earth Still Isn't Flat


Individuals that run the YouTube channel GLOBEBUSTERS get a little fortune and lots of fame for pushing lies….  I think lots of the “trolling” effort is to keep the lie alive to keep traffic/consumption of media like GLOBEBUSTERS going…
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 05:57:49 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 06:06:05 AM »

Let them have their fantasy. Besides, I guarantee you that almost every 'flat earther' you deal with is simply trolling or LARPing.

Off topic.  But relevant to your post.  I have a friend that totally believes the earth is only about 12,000 years old. And made by their god as a turn key reality.  The earth was made with no form of evolution. Willing to even preach on it.  There are probably less flat earth trolls and more true flat earth believers that is uncomfortable to think about.

We all have roles to play.  But the die hard flat earther’s seem to preach like a zealot more than a troll….

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turbonium2

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2022, 09:25:14 PM »
So.  Been here a few months on this site.  It’s interesting what flat earther’s will defend to the death, and what they will completely ignore.

One of those items that gets ignored, or right out lied about, is why it’s hard to ride a bike up hill and keep up speed, and why people need to gear down on a 10 speed.  But flat earther’s can move goal posts and muddy waters.

So.  Thanks to the modern car and its fuel management system and cruse control, its quite easy to see how gravity affects a car set to a constant speed going from a flat surface to climb up a steep grade/hill.

If gravity doesn’t exert a downward force on the car, why must a car to keep its speed up use more fuel, gear down, and/or use more RPM’s to climb a step hill. 

Why does the car use more energy going from a flat surface to up hill as kinetic energy is converted to gravitational potential energy.

If 'gravity' existed throughout the Earth's surface, then riding a bike ON the surface should be the SAME, whether on a flat surface, or up a hill, or down a hill, right?

'Gravity' should be the same over the whole surface, right? Why would it be harder to ride a bike up a hill, than over flat land? Shouldn't 'gravity' act the same way, over the entire surface? It would, if it actually DID exist. It's a made up fantasy force, invented to support the ball Earth fairy tale story. That's why it fails miserably, in every way possible.

When you ride a bike over Earth's surface, why is it harder to go up a hill, than over flat land? Is it not the same surface throughout, with the same 'gravity' throughout? If so, it would not be any harder to go up a hill than over flat land?  Why can we glide a bike DOWN a hill without using ANY effort? The 'force' is still the same, over the entire surface, right?

'Gravity' doesn't exist, and this ALONE proves it doesn't.

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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2022, 01:31:35 AM »
If 'gravity' existed throughout the Earth's surface, then riding a bike ON the surface should be the SAME, whether on a flat surface, or up a hill, or down a hill, right?
Gravity exists through the entire Earth's mass.
Not just the surface.
You are pulled towards that mass.
This means it should feel quite different if you were going up hill, down hill, or over level terrain.

Taking level ground as the reference, you need to apply a force to accelerate, but then can coast fairly well, only needing to apply forces to overcome the various losses in the system.

If you are going up hill, then gravity is acting to slow you down, so you need to work harder to fight against that force, as you feel it resisting you moving away from the source.
Conversely, if you are going down a hill, then gravity is acting with you, to pull you down that hill.
That means you might actually need to provide a force to slow yourself down in the form of applying breaks.

'Gravity' should be the same over the whole surface, right? Why would it be harder to ride a bike up a hill, than over flat land? Shouldn't 'gravity' act the same way, over the entire surface? It would, if it actually DID exist.
Why should it?

That's why it fails miserably, in every way possible.
If it fails miserably in every way possible, why are you completely incapable of showing it fail in even a single case?

'Gravity' doesn't exist, and this ALONE proves it doesn't.
You are going to need a lot more than your bold assertion for that.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 03:02:15 AM »


'Gravity' doesn't exist, and this ALONE proves it doesn't.

No.  Gravity is demonstrably real. Because we have this…. Regenerative Braking


Quote
These Electric Trains Never Need Recharging Thanks to Regenerative Braking

They create so much electricity traveling downhill fully loaded, they can go back to the top of the hill empty with some battery to spare.
ByErin Marquis
PublishedMay 25, 2022

https://jalopnik.com/these-electric-trains-never-need-recharging-thanks-to-r-1848975204/amp


Good old gravity. It’s always there for us, keeping us grounded — and now, charging our electric trains indefinitely. A mining company in Australia recently explained that four of its electric trains create so much electricity through regenerative braking going downhill, they can power themselves back to the top of the hill, and have a little extra battery power left over. Science!



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turbonium2

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2022, 03:18:00 PM »
Gravity exists through the entire Earth's mass.
Not just the surface.
You are pulled towards that mass.
This means it should feel quite different if you were going up hill, down hill, or over level terrain.

Taking level ground as the reference, you need to apply a force to accelerate, but then can coast fairly well, only needing to apply forces to overcome the various losses in the system.

If you are going up hill, then gravity is acting to slow you down, so you need to work harder to fight against that force, as you feel it resisting you moving away from the source.
Conversely, if you are going down a hill, then gravity is acting with you, to pull you down that hill.
That means you might actually need to provide a force to slow yourself down in the form of applying breaks.

But your made up magical 'force' is supposed to exist over the ENTIRE surface equally.

It should 'pull down' on you with equal strength going up a hill, down a hill, or level ground, since you are ON the surface all the time.

When you are in air, your made up force 'pulls down' the same, no matter if you are above a hill, over the slope of a hill, or over level ground, right? Why would it pull you more going UP a hill, if you're ON the surface, then? It doesn't 'pull you' more when ABOVE the surface, so it shouldn't when ON the surface, either!

The reason it IS harder to ride a bike UP a hill, when ON the surface, has nothing to do with your made up force. It is due to your greater mass and density than that of the air above the surface. Going up a hill, you are lifting your greater mass and density UPWARD in air, even though you are still on the surface itself. When you go DOWN a hill, you are essentially falling down THROUGH the air, with you greater mass and density, while still on the surface.

'Gravity' would not 'pull down' more OR less on you, when on the surface. It would be the very SAME 'pull' on you, going up OR down a hill, as it would be going over level ground, same as if you were ABOVE the surface, within air.

As I said, this alone proves your made up 'force' doesn't exist at all.

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Unconvinced

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2022, 04:05:37 PM »

If 'gravity' existed throughout the Earth's surface, then riding a bike ON the surface should be the SAME, whether on a flat surface, or up a hill, or down a hill, right?


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Stash

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2022, 01:06:20 AM »
Going up a hill, you are lifting your greater mass and density UPWARD in air, even though you are still on the surface itself. When you go DOWN a hill, you are essentially falling down THROUGH the air, with you greater mass and density, while still on the surface.

That doesn't really make sense.

- If I'm at the bottom of a hill my mass/density are X.
- I pedal up the hill 10 feet, it takes effort
- 10' higher up the hill the atmosphere has not changed and my mass/density are still X, same as when I was at the bottom of the hill
- I pedal back down the 10' using way less effort than required going up

What's different about being 10' higher when I never lose contact with the ground and my mass/density and the atmosphere have not changed?

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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2022, 03:23:10 AM »
Gravity exists through the entire Earth's mass.
Not just the surface.
But your made up magical 'force' is supposed to exist over the ENTIRE surface equally.
Stop just repeating the same delusional BS while ignoring what has been said.

Gravity is based upon mass. It doesn't magically pull you to the surface of Earth, it pulls you down.
And if you are going up a hill, you are going away from down, and thus you need to provide a force to overcome this force due to gravity. Otherwise, you feel gravity resisting you try to defy it.

It should 'pull down' on you with equal strength going up a hill, down a hill, or level ground, since you are ON the surface all the time.
The question is what is the force broken into the components parallel to the ground and perpendicular to it.

When you are on a level surface, the force of gravity is perpendicular to the surface. That means gravity is simply trying to pull you through the surface.
If you are on a surface like water, you fall through.
But if it is a solid surface, it pushes back, preventing you from falling through unless you can overcome its yield strength.
So if you want to ride along a level surface, you just need to provide the force to overcome the friction and various other losses, you don't need to directly fight gravity, nor are you directly assisted by gravity.

But when you are on an inclined surface, only a component of the force will be perpendicular to the ground. Another component will be parallel to the ground, and the only force provided by the ground to stop that is friction. So if you want to ride up a hill, you need to counter the component of the force due gravity which is parallel to the hill, meaning you need to work a lot harder.
Likewise, if you want to ride down, then you have a component of the force due to gravity pulling you down the hill, so you can work less.

You can even do the same with other forces, like magnetism. Where you can see if you have a wedge, made from a non-magnetic material, that you can use to separate 2 magnets, it is harder to force the wedge in when it has a steeper angle. Yet it is the same magnetic force regardless.

As I said, this alone proves your made up 'force' doesn't exist at all.
All this proves is how dishonest you are, and how desperate you are to pretend the RE model and gravity don't work.

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Round and Proud

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2022, 08:06:38 AM »
So.  Been here a few months on this site.  It’s interesting what flat earther’s will defend to the death, and what they will completely ignore.

One of those items that gets ignored, or right out lied about, is why it’s hard to ride a bike up hill and keep up speed, and why people need to gear down on a 10 speed.  But flat earther’s can move goal posts and muddy waters.

So.  Thanks to the modern car and its fuel management system and cruse control, its quite easy to see how gravity affects a car set to a constant speed going from a flat surface to climb up a steep grade/hill.

If gravity doesn’t exert a downward force on the car, why must a car to keep its speed up use more fuel, gear down, and/or use more RPM’s to climb a step hill. 

Why does the car use more energy going from a flat surface to up hill as kinetic energy is converted to gravitational potential energy.

If 'gravity' existed throughout the Earth's surface, then riding a bike ON the surface should be the SAME, whether on a flat surface, or up a hill, or down a hill, right?

'Gravity' should be the same over the whole surface, right? Why would it be harder to ride a bike up a hill, than over flat land? Shouldn't 'gravity' act the same way, over the entire surface? It would, if it actually DID exist. It's a made up fantasy force, invented to support the ball Earth fairy tale story. That's why it fails miserably, in every way possible.

When you ride a bike over Earth's surface, why is it harder to go up a hill, than over flat land? Is it not the same surface throughout, with the same 'gravity' throughout? If so, it would not be any harder to go up a hill than over flat land?  Why can we glide a bike DOWN a hill without using ANY effort? The 'force' is still the same, over the entire surface, right?

'Gravity' doesn't exist, and this ALONE proves it doesn't.

No. The force of gravity is toward the center of the Earth. You are assuming gravity is acting at a right angle to the surface of the Earth at all places including inclines. If that were the case, you would walk up a cliff.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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turbonium2

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2022, 02:53:29 AM »
Gravity is based upon mass. It doesn't magically pull you to the surface of Earth, it pulls you down.
And if you are going up a hill, you are going away from down, and thus you need to provide a force to overcome this force due to gravity. Otherwise, you feel gravity resisting you try to defy it.

The question is what is the force broken into the components parallel to the ground and perpendicular to it.

When you are on a level surface, the force of gravity is perpendicular to the surface. That means gravity is simply trying to pull you through the surface.
sses, you don't need to directly fight gravity, nor are you directly assisted by gravity.

But when you are on an inclined surface, only a component of the force will be perpendicular to the ground. Another component will be parallel to the ground, and the only force provided by the ground to stop that is friction. So if you want to ride up a hill, you need to counter the component of the force due gravity which is parallel to the hill, meaning you need to work a lot harder.
Likewise, if you want to ride down, then you have a component of the force due to gravity pulling you down the hill, so you can work less.


What is 'down' supposed to mean?

Where is 'down' on a ball Earth?  Going 'down' is anywhere you ARE, directly below you, anywhere on the Earth's surface - if it were a BALL, that is.

You will always be on the TOP of a ball Earth, no matter where you are on it, and everypne else is on top of the ball Earth, too. And 'DOWN', is always below you, wherever YOU ARE on the Earth, of course.

On a ball Earth, down is on the side of a mountain, each and every POINT on that mountain's side, each and every point you EVER are on Earth, because you are always on TOP of the ball Earth, anywhere you ARE on Earth, And DOWN is anywhere ON the Earth, directly down from that point on Earth.

Being on the side of a mountain, at ANY point you are, is DIRECTLY DOWN from you, to the CENTER of that ball, or the Earth's 'core', as you would call it!

How could anything be 'down' if it is NOT everywhere on Earth, directly downward to the CENTER of it? It's not possible, right?

Your magical force is in Earth's 'core', you believe. Any point on the Earth's surface you are, would be directly above the Earth's 'core'.

If you claim DOWN is not from a mountain's side, you are clearly wrong. It is wherever you are on Earth, where DOWN is directly below you, to the core.

No lousy excuses will ever save the fairy tale story, so get over it.


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2022, 02:59:52 AM »
Gravity is based upon mass. It doesn't magically pull you to the surface of Earth, it pulls you down.
And if you are going up a hill, you are going away from down, and thus you need to provide a force to overcome this force due to gravity. Otherwise, you feel gravity resisting you try to defy it.

The question is what is the force broken into the components parallel to the ground and perpendicular to it.

When you are on a level surface, the force of gravity is perpendicular to the surface. That means gravity is simply trying to pull you through the surface.
sses, you don't need to directly fight gravity, nor are you directly assisted by gravity.

But when you are on an inclined surface, only a component of the force will be perpendicular to the ground. Another component will be parallel to the ground, and the only force provided by the ground to stop that is friction. So if you want to ride up a hill, you need to counter the component of the force due gravity which is parallel to the hill, meaning you need to work a lot harder.
Likewise, if you want to ride down, then you have a component of the force due to gravity pulling you down the hill, so you can work less.


What is 'down' supposed to mean?

Where is 'down' on a ball Earth?  Going 'down' is anywhere you ARE, directly below you, anywhere on the Earth's surface - if it were a BALL, that is.

You will always be on the TOP of a ball Earth, no matter where you are on it, and everypne else is on top of the ball Earth, too. And 'DOWN', is always below you, wherever YOU ARE on the Earth, of course.

On a ball Earth, down is on the side of a mountain, each and every POINT on that mountain's side, each and every point you EVER are on Earth, because you are always on TOP of the ball Earth, anywhere you ARE on Earth, And DOWN is anywhere ON the Earth, directly down from that point on Earth.

Being on the side of a mountain, at ANY point you are, is DIRECTLY DOWN from you, to the CENTER of that ball, or the Earth's 'core', as you would call it!

How could anything be 'down' if it is NOT everywhere on Earth, directly downward to the CENTER of it? It's not possible, right?

Your magical force is in Earth's 'core', you believe. Any point on the Earth's surface you are, would be directly above the Earth's 'core'.

If you claim DOWN is not from a mountain's side, you are clearly wrong. It is wherever you are on Earth, where DOWN is directly below you, to the core.

No lousy excuses will ever save the fairy tale story, so get over it.


External source


Quote
level surface—A surface which at every point is perpendicular to the plumb line or the direction in which gravity acts. A level surface is an equipotential surface. *the surface of a body of still water is a level surface. See leveling, water surface of the ocean – if changes caused by tides, currents, winds. atmospheric pressure, etc., are not considered – is a level surface. The surface of the geoid is a level surface. Any line lying in a level surface is a level line. In a survey of a limited area, a level surface is sometimes treated as a plane surface. Level surfaces are approximately ellipsoidal in shape, the distance between any two level surfaces decreasing with increase of latitude. For example, a level surface which is 1,000 m above the mean surface of the sea at the equator is 995 m above that surface at the poles.

https://learncst.com/level-definitions/

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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2022, 03:13:55 AM »
Where is 'down' on a ball Earth?
Towards the centre, as already explained.
That is not going directly in to the surface.

If you are on the side of a hill, down is not perpendicular to the surface.

And 'DOWN', is always below you
Yes, down is down, but that doesn't mean perpendicular to the surface, as Earth's surface is not level.

Your magical force is in Earth's 'core', you believe.
No, the real force of gravity is a result of the attraction to ALL of the mass of Earth.
Not just the surface, not just the core, all of it.


If you claim DOWN is not from a mountain's side, you are clearly wrong.
Why don't you try drawing a picture of a mountain, and show which way you think down should be on a RE?

No lousy excuses will ever save the fairy tale story, so get over it.
Which is why you can't save your fairy tale.
Conversely, I need no excuses and have clearly explained why it takes more effort to travel on level ground than going down hill, and why it takes more effort to go up hill than either alternative.
And as per usual you have entirely ignored the explanation, meaning you have failed to demonstrate any fault with it.
So gravity is not in need of saving, as it works, unlike your delusional BS.

You also don't even seem to realise just how much you have been contradicting or refuting yourself.
You want to appeal to magically returning to the origin, but that being the entire surface.
So why do things roll down a hill?
Why don't they just go towards the surface?
Why should it feel any different riding up a hill vs down a hill vs level ground? In all cases, you are riding along the surface.
So this argument works far better against your fairy tale.

Regarding gravity, you claim it isn't a real force, because real forces offer resistance, where if you try to oppose the force (such as say by going up a hill moving away from the centre of Earth and thus opposing gravity) you don't feel any resistance.
But now you want to try claiming you shouldn't feel resistance, directly contradicting that.

You really should make up your mind and try presenting a coherent argument.

If you still think gravity can't explain it, go back and read what I said in my last post, and point out exactly what part you don't understand or think is wrong, and if you think it is wrong, explain why and what it should be.

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turbonium2

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2022, 03:53:29 AM »
If you are on the side of a hill, down is not perpendicular to the surface.

Yes, down is down, but that doesn't mean perpendicular to the surface, as Earth's surface is not level.

No, the real force of gravity is a result of the attraction to ALL of the mass of Earth.
Not just the surface, not just the core, all of it.

A mountain's sides are on the surface, too.

And on the side of a mountain, you are perpendicular to the Earth's 'core', right? When you are on the side of a mountain, DOWN is directly below you, right to this 'core'. Where your made up force is, sending magical 'waves' out, over the Earth, and into the air above Earth, making all our instruments read 'level', as 'level to Earth's unseen, unmeasurable, tiny 'curve' all over the Earth'!  These magical 'gravity' waves sent from Earth's unknown to exist 'core', will make all our instruments measure something like a 2 foot shelf on a wall, as being 'level to a curve of 8 inches per mile, but it looks flat and horizontal, it has a microscopic-sized 'curve' to it, which cannot be measured at all, but is really THERE, because you say it is!

So where would you say 'gravity' is most powerful, is at the Earth's core, if it would perform such amazing feats as this, by changing what our instruments measure as LEVEL, to the tiny unseen 'curve' of 8 inches per mile!


You make up whatever BS fits in, somewhere, make up other BS to fit somewhere else, and so on. Then, you ignore all the different BS you made up, or say it is not different, with even more BS made up for it.


A huge, stinking pile of BS, that's all it is.

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Round and Proud

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2022, 05:25:55 AM »
It is there. Not believing it is there won't make it not there. 2400 years of study, math, and experiments show it is there. NOTHING shows the earth is flat.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Stash

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2022, 09:57:58 AM »
A mountain's sides are on the surface, too.

- If I'm at the bottom of a hill my mass/density are X.
- I pedal up the hill 10 feet, it takes effort
- 10' higher up the hill the atmosphere has not changed and my mass/density are still X, same as when I was at the bottom of the hill
- I pedal back down the 10' using way less effort than required going up

What's different about being 10' higher when I never lose contact with the ground and my mass/density and the atmosphere have not changed?
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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2022, 12:33:51 PM »
And on the side of a mountain, you are perpendicular to the Earth's 'core', right? When you are on the side of a mountain, DOWN is directly below you, right to this 'core'.
So not capable of clearly explaining your position?
Here is a simple diagram for you:


This is a mountain on a RE.
On this mountain, on a RE, which way do you think is down?
Do you think it is A, or do you think it is B?

Where your made up force is, sending magical 'waves' out, over the Earth, and into the air above Earth, making all our instruments read 'level', as 'level to Earth's unseen, unmeasurable, tiny 'curve' all over the Earth'!  These magical 'gravity' waves sent from Earth's unknown to exist 'core', will make all our instruments measure something like a 2 foot shelf on a wall, as being 'level to a curve of 8 inches per mile, but it looks flat and horizontal, it has a microscopic-sized 'curve' to it, which cannot be measured at all, but is really THERE, because you say it is!
You sure do love spouting pure garbage don't you?
These instruments measure level as perpendicular to down.

You make up whatever BS fits in, somewhere, make up other BS to fit somewhere else, and so on. Then, you ignore all the different BS you made up, or say it is not different, with even more BS made up for it.
A huge, stinking pile of BS, that's all it is.
No, that would be you.
You make up whatever dishonest BS you can to pretend there is a problem while being unable to demonstrate a single fault with the RE model or gravity, and being entirely incapable of providing a viable alternative.
You don't even have the decency to actually comment on the explanations that have been provided, as you know you cannot show fault with them, so you just throw a tantrum.

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disputeone

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2022, 01:03:00 AM »
Hey Crouton.

You know what would be a good idea?

Banning all the flat earthers from the flat earth society. Then we can discuss scienceTM without all this flat earth nonsense.
Why would that be inciting terrorism?  Lorddave was merely describing a type of shop we have here in the US, a bomb-gun shop.  A shop that sells bomb-guns.

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turbonium2

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2022, 10:14:15 PM »
These instruments measure level as perpendicular to down.

No, theymeasure level over their entire length, in the case of spirit levels, and over the length of a plane, when in air, along two points or more, along the plane itself. Level cannot be measured at a single point, it is measured over a length, over a distance between two SEPARATE points. Level is linear, a vector or line over a distance.

This might help you inderstand that -

A small mound, 4 feet around, has a peak on top. Then, we take a spirit level 3 feet long, and place it atop the mound's peak.

We can balance it along the peak, to measure for 'level', but we know the mound is NOT level, and is NOT being measured AS level, right? Even if we FLATTEN the peak of it, to make it level, the rest of it is NOT level, nor being MEASURED at all, right?

You're arguing our instruments measure for level, at the center point of it. That's obviously NOT true, as shown by this example.

Instruments measure for level, over their length, or some distance between two separate points of them. That's what you don't understand yet, or didn't, until now.


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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2022, 10:31:06 PM »
No, theymeasure level over their entire length, in the case of spirit levels
No, they don't.
Here is an example of a spirit level:



It measures for level in that small section in the middle.
It does this with a approximately cylindrical container, mostly filled with fluid.
It measures level by that fluid going to the bottom of the container, leaving a pocket at the top.

i.e. it measure as perpendicular to down, at that point.
That is all it does.

You then have a piece of metal (or some other material) attached to it, with faces far too inaccurate to detect the curvature of Earth along them.

But notice how you don't even bother responding to what I said?

I said they measure level as perpendicular to down. As that is what they do.
Instead of even attempting to address that you instead want to focus on if they measure that at a single point or along a length.

And of course, even that is just to try and deflect away from the far more important issues.

Once more, see if you can answer this simple question:
Here is a simple diagram for you:


This is a mountain on a RE.
On this mountain, on a RE, which way do you think is down?
Do you think it is A, or do you think it is B?

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Stash

  • Ethical Stash
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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2022, 10:55:07 PM »
Instruments measure for level, over their length, or some distance between two separate points of them. That's what you don't understand yet, or didn't, until now.

Nope. It is apparently you who doesn't understand.

Circular level:

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turbonium2

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2022, 12:29:18 AM »
No, theymeasure level over their entire length, in the case of spirit levels
No, they don't.
Here is an example of a spirit level:



It measures for level in that small section in the middle.
It does this with a approximately cylindrical container, mostly filled with fluid.
It measures level by that fluid going to the bottom of the container, leaving a pocket at the top.

i.e. it measure as perpendicular to down, at that point.
That is all it does.

You then have a piece of metal (or some other material) attached to it, with faces far too inaccurate to detect the curvature of Earth along them.

But notice how you don't even bother responding to what I said?

I said they measure level as perpendicular to down. As that is what they do.
Instead of even attempting to address that you instead want to focus on if they measure that at a single point or along a length.

And of course, even that is just to try and deflect away from the far more important issues.

Once more, see if you can answer this simple question:
Here is a simple diagram for you:


This is a mountain on a RE.
On this mountain, on a RE, which way do you think is down?
Do you think it is A, or do you think it is B?

First of all, you know I'm referring to standard spirit levels, with one tube in the middle. Don't play the weasel here, it won't work.

Standard spirit levels with one tube in the middle, measure over their entire length, for level, right? So when we put it atop a mound's peak, and balance it along the peak, it measures LEVEL, right? But we know the mound is NOT level, so it is NOT measuring for level, over the length of that instrument.

We must measure for level OVER the entire length of the instrument, to find if something is level, or is not level.

Standard spirit levels with one tube in the middle, have a flat, straight edge on them, or at all it's edges, which are used to measure for level, right? 

Why? Because levels are measuring for a flat, straight, horizontal surface, along their flat, straight edges, which we put down on surfaces, to see if they ARE level, ARE flat, ARE straight, and ARE horizontal, along their edges.

How could they ever TRY to measure for a CURVE? They have a flat, straight edge on them, which we place on surfaces! How could they measure for any sort of CURVE, using flat, straight edges to measure for LEVEL?

Even if Earth HAD a 'curve' over it's surface, levels could NOT measure for it, having a straight, flat edge on them! It's insane to even say such a thing is done, let alone ever POSSIBLE!

These instruments can only measure over their length, except for laser levels, which measure over distances outward from the instrument itself, by a laser light cast outward. Even they are limited in distance measured, too.

They do NOT measure for a curve, any curve, of any degree of a curve. They couldn't, even if we TRIED to use it to measure for a curve. No way, no how, it is simply impossible to do such a thing.

And what IS perpendicular to level, is at 90 degrees to it, and is exactly VERTICAL to level.

Vertical is a straight line, perpendicular to a HORIZONTAL line, which is also straight. And it is called LEVEL.

When those liars said Earth was a ball, speeding around in endless 'space;, they were well aware it had problems which were impossible to explain away as being a curved surface on a ball Earth. It was done with trickery, and said we shall take the word of our 'experts', who are a bunch of well paid liars, and frauds, but are intelligent, and clever, making them perfect liars, who know enough to look legitimate and trustworthy for claiming things without any proof, or confirmation of their claims, by others, which is why it is NOT any sort of actual science, which is entirely based on being honest, and open, to others, confirming all their claims, and using their instruments, that WERE used for their claims, exactly as it is done, with ASTRONOMY.

They've made countless claims, and never allowed us to prove or confirm any of them.

Not science, it's BS, an ANTI-science - that's blatantly obvious to see, isn't it?

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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2022, 02:08:03 AM »
First of all, you know I'm referring to standard spirit levels, with one tube in the middle. Don't play the weasel here, it won't work.
That's rich coming from you considering you appear to be trying to weasel your way out of it even now.
That was just the first decent picture I found. If I had found one with a single bubble, designed for only measuring level, and not for plumb and 45 degrees as well it would only further support my case.

That tube is how it measures for level.
That tube measures what way is down.
That is how levels work.
They determine the direction of down.

Standard spirit levels with one tube in the middle, have a flat, straight edge on them, or at all it's edges, which are used to measure for level, right?
No, the tube is used to measure for level.
That "straight edge", which is not precise enough to be affected by the Earth's curvature, is a way to orient the tube in the middle, but it is the tube in the middle that measures for level.

Why? Because levels are measuring for a flat
No, they are for measuring for level.
That does not need to be flat.
And the curvature over that distance is entirely negligible.

Clinging to the same pathetic delusional BS will not help you.

These devices do not magically measure relative to some magical flat reference.
They simply determine which way is donw.

When those liars said Earth was a ball
The liar here is you. Continually spouting whatever delusional BS you can to pretend the RE model can't work, yet you are unable to show a single fault.
Look at your actions in this thread, and how you are trying to use level to deflect from your prior delusional BS.

This thread isn't about how levels work. It is about cars, and how cars driving up hills take more fuel to drive along a flat surface, because they are opposing gravity by going up.
But because your delusional BS failed, you deflect to BS about levels.
Truly pathetic.

they were well aware it had problems
Yet you can't show a single fault.
Considering how long you have been here trying, and how you have failed every time you have attempted to do so, I highly doubt it has problems like you pretend.

Not science, it's BS, an ANTI-science - that's blatantly obvious to see, isn't it?
Your delusional BS is anti-science, and it is quite obvious to see.

For example, you objected to gravity being a real force, because you claim it doesn't provide resistance when you try to move things away from the source, but now in this thread you claim the exact opposite, that gravity should not produce any resistance when you try to move an object away from the source.
This shows your position is not one of honest inquiry at all, it is not scientific at all.
Instead, it demonstrates your position is to spout whatever dishonest BS you can to pretend the RE model is wrong.

Now how about answering the simple question you have ignored yet again:
Here is a simple diagram for you:


This is a mountain on a RE.
On this mountain, on a RE, which way do you think is down?
Do you think it is A, or do you think it is B?

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Stash

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2022, 11:46:34 AM »
Standard spirit levels with one tube in the middle, have a flat, straight edge on them, or at all it's edges, which are used to measure for level, right? 

A level is a level. A spirit level is a sprit level. It doesn't matter if it's 1/2 an inch or 10' long bar with a bubble in the middle. It's still a level. Why do you say such strange and incorrect things?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2022, 03:37:09 PM »
So.  Been here a few months on this site.  It’s interesting what flat earther’s will defend to the death, and what they will completely ignore.

One of those items that gets ignored, or right out lied about, is why it’s hard to ride a bike up hill and keep up speed, and why people need to gear down on a 10 speed.  But flat earther’s can move goal posts and muddy waters.

So.  Thanks to the modern car and its fuel management system and cruse control, its quite easy to see how gravity affects a car set to a constant speed going from a flat surface to climb up a steep grade/hill.

If gravity doesn’t exert a downward force on the car, why must a car to keep its speed up use more fuel, gear down, and/or use more RPM’s to climb a step hill. 

Why does the car use more energy going from a flat surface to up hill as kinetic energy is converted to gravitational potential energy.

Modern (or any) cars are subject to their own mass.

At a slope, this mass exerts against them based on direction. If I were to make a u-turn on the hill, that car would be able to use that same mass to its advantage.

Btw, this is not 100% the case.  Supposing I don't do what most people do (I don't, not ever) and use the brakes when heading down a hill.  The next hill, some momentum is transferred towards pushing the car up the hill, and the effect of its mass is reduced.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2022, 04:44:56 PM »
At a slope, this mass exerts against them based on direction.
Why just on a slope?
Why should this depend on direction?
Why does it resist going up, but not going down?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2022, 04:54:11 PM »
Quote
Why just on a slope?
Why should this depend on direction?
Why does it resist going up, but not going down?

Say you're 3/4 up the hill.

Facing up the hill, the 3/4 below you doesn't matter. It's the 1/4 uphill.

Facing down the hill, the 1/4 above doesn't matter. It's the 3/4 below.

The hill doesn't really exist, it's all just perspective.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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JackBlack

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Re: Modern cars absolutely confirm gravity
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2022, 05:43:12 PM »
Say you're 3/4 up the hill.

Facing up the hill, the 3/4 below you doesn't matter. It's the 1/4 uphill.

Facing down the hill, the 1/4 above doesn't matter. It's the 3/4 below.

The hill doesn't really exist, it's all just perspective.
Really?
So now you want to claim the hill doesn't exist?
If it didn't exist, and it was all perspective, then it shouldn't matter where you were.

But notice how you aren't even attempting to justify your position?
You are just spouting a bunch of words with no meaning or point.

If you are on a constant gradient it doesn't matter how far up the hill you are, there is no significant change in how hard it is to go up or how easy it is to go down. Instead going up is hard and going down is easy. So the amount you are up the hill doesn't matter.

What you can't explain is why it should be hard to go up the hill.