Are all flat earthers also Genesis believers?

Jesus does not demand genital mutilation Jack.

His dad did.

I didn't know you were anti-circumcision Stash, good on you.

I didn't know you were anti-circumcision Stash, good on you.

I just find it curious when people worship Jesus, but don't worship God.

If you knew Jesus then you would know God.

The problem is that you can't come before God with sin. Christians believe we need Jesus as our ambassador before God because of our own wretchedness.

You were promised Jesus for so long, God couldn't have given us a better gift, or a better Messiah as he promised to deliver.

One could argue the main point of the Torah was to prophesise the Messiah.

Nope, once more you are wrong.
...

I was not wrong before, neither now. You still persist in the same mistake. The fact that you describe God as bad in your imagination doesn't change the fact that his role in that fiction is good. It shows that you have misunderstood God, or that you feel the need to insult God because you do not believe, or that you are insulting God because you believe in Devil, and flattering him. Because otherwise you're taking a risk. You must have a vested interest in making these insults. This seems possible only if you accept Satan as God. But let me tell you, even the devil has not insulted God like this, and no matter what she has promised you now, she will not defend you in any way when you come before God.

Tell me if I am always wrong so why did not you get vaccine? Oh, the devil gave you a clue, didn't he?

Re-reading your BS wont magically make it true.

Not it does. That's why you describe the God as a "child evil tiran God". In fact, this is the God version of what I describe as a simulation. You read and you believe. That's why you didn't get vaccinated because I said "vaccination is unhealthy". You are alive today because you read it over and over. You are ungrateful. You both take advantage of me and do not respect the source of your life.

The text makes it clear that God is evil.

If God has a bad role in a text, the person in that text is "current God", that person is the devil. I'm sure everyone who reads what you write here has taken care you not to write anything negative about Devil, even though you do all kinds of insults to God. Even if they didn't notice, I did. Could it be because there is a secret agreement between you? How much did he pay?

It is your god, and the god of the countless people who foolishly worship it.

No, it is your God and we are believing him because he is your God.

Wonderful projection you have there.

You know this because you were not vaccinated by relying on this projection and are now healthy. Did you thank me for this? Of course not, if you do that the devil will punish you.

Evolution and abiogensis explains that. Your god does not.

It's inconceivable for someone as smart as you to believe in evolution. It's just an evil lie and contains a lot of loopholes. Where are the innumerable intermediate forms that must have existed between man and other living things in your evolution? Which race became human and how did they all go from 10 IQ to 100 IQ while they were being transformed? Where are the other IQ levels in between? Come on. We both know this is a childish BS. Did the devil make this? Are you working for him? What does he pay you for this? Are the payments regular?

I remind you, if you're going to get angry and cry, let's not play.

Trying to hide under the guise of "I didn't say those exact words" won't save you.
If your god is capable of lying, that means your god could be lying, so someone lying would not make them not god.
The only way for your statement to be correct is if God is incapable of lying.

So you agreed you are lying. You can't claim that I said what I didn't say as your own interpretation. Your comment and what I said are different things. The sentences that are not mine, produced by your overheated and burned brain, do not belong to me. If I say God does not have the ability to lie, you will say "then he is lacking, he cannot do that". And if I say, "No, he can lie if he wants to," you say, "Then your God is a liar." This is clearly Devil logic, it doesn't work in this world, at least on me.

Remind him that fire must be obeyed to the earth.

If I was actually wrong

So you are...

you wouldn't need to keep saying I am wrong, you could just explain why.

I already constantly explain you are wrong over and over. Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Why doesn't he speak to cause chaos and suffering?

Again, you want your god to be good, so you use a dishonest double standard to dismiss the possibility of your god being bad while ignoring the fact that the same excuses you give can work on your god being good.

If he spoke to create chaos and suffering, he wouldn't be God, he would be Satan. I think this is exactly what you believe in. So you don't realize that when you reject God, you actually believe in Satan.

There is plenty of chaos in the universe.
So there goes that excuse.

You are lying. Prove it chaos.

Your evil god is a fictional character that did not create me.

Your Devil God did not create you also. Your ordinary God has create you.

I understand, I just reject your BS.
It is just a pathetic excuse ...

Your denial of the facts and describing them as pathetic excuses cannot change these facts. I don't excuse for anything here, nor defend. I write the facts whether or not you agree. What your Satan calls to you is your concern only. Every unbiased (believer) reader will understand which of us is pathetic in attitude.

A good god would not.

No, it would. She is the God of Good and Evil both. If he had not created evil, he would not have created you. What would me, me and people like me do in this world? Who would we try to call to the right path? Such a world would be boring.

There is no need to balance good with evil.

If it were up to you, you would only want evil in the world. Your Devil is telling you this.

The only way for your brightness analogy to work is if you claim that good is merely the absence of evil, so black is good and white is evil.

You finally got the point, somehow you got it right.

No, you gave excuses, which I have refuted above.

You could not refuted anything but denied the facts.

There is no need for a balance between good and evil.

0=+1-1
You cannot do it otherwise.

I said a good god would have only created good, but an evil god could create good and evil.

Where did you say it?

No, there is nothing sure about that.
...
That is not just.

She didn't do it. The malevolent simulator teenageer tiran devil who rules the world did. But you do not to allow anybody to speak ill of Devil anyway.

Then the world would be a much better place.

No. If it wasn't for you and bad guys like you, the world wouldn't need to exist. Only between me and people like me there wouldn't be any claims, there wouldn't be any goals, there wouldn't be any striving for things. In a world that consisted of only white color, everyone would get bored and leave.

Customer satisfaction is important.

The good 'ol holy bible, still bringing people together!

I love how whoever wrote the book of Genesis couldn't count. Let's see.

God made the first two people on Earth - Adam and Eve. 1 +1=2. Adam and Eve then had two sons - Cain and Abel. 2 +2=4. Cain kills Abel 4-1=3 (which keaves, Adam, Eve, and Cain) and then Cain goes off and takes a wife in another land.

Huh? Did I miss something?

(Did Cain marry his own mother, Eve? She is the only female on Earth, after all, isn't she? No, then where did this wife he took, come from? There is no mention of Eve having a daughter. There is also no mention of another Adam and Eve in another land who had a daughter?)

People wonder why I never bothered to read the bible any further than the first few paragraphs of Genesis. It's not a good start to the greatest story ever told, is it? The first great plot hole.

Maybe this is why the bible is called the "holy" bible - because of all the holes!

It's a good thing the bible is a real book we can each hold in our hands and isn't one of your Matrix simulations, ey Wise? 

The good 'ol holy bible, still bringing people together!

I love how whoever wrote the book of Genesis couldn't count. Let's see.

God made the first two people on Earth - Adam and Eve. 1 +1=2. Adam and Eve then had two sons - Cain and Abel. 2 +2=4. Cain kills Abel 4-1=3 (which keaves, Adam, Eve, and Cain) and then Cain goes off and takes a wife in another land.

Huh? Did I miss something?

(Did Cain marry his own mother, Eve? She is the only female on Earth, after all, isn't she? No, then where did this wife he took, come from? There is no mention of Eve having a daughter. There is also no mention of another Adam and Eve in another land who had a daughter?)

People wonder why I never bothered to read the bible any further than the first few paragraphs of Genesis. It's not a good start to the greatest story ever told, is it? The first great plot hole.

Yeah its a bit weird. Clearly Adam&Eve weren't the first humans. Also, they are said to have existed some 6000 years ago but we know that civilizations are far older than that. The Australian aborigines are at least 60,000 years of history here and Africans where we are said to have began hundreds of thousands of years ago.

My guess is the story that God 'created' Adam and Eve was more like they were 'royalty' of a King (God in this story). Adam was his son and after being alone he had an arranged marriage to Eve. They did something that earned them banishment (perhaps found out a secret) from the kingdom (garden) and were exiled to live with the rest of us commoners.

The event of Noah and the flood may have happened - but not the world. Perhaps just the area in which they lived. I mean, if there was a world wide flood because God wanted to kill all humans (except for a handful) then the existence of aboriginals in Australia presents quite the pickle for bible thumpers to sort out

Also if the human race was reduced to just an old man and woman (who cant breed anymore) and just 3 males and 3 females (sons of Noah and their wives), humanity would be fucked. You need far more than that to restart humanity.

The bible is filled with fables and has no basis in reality. It makes for some pretty cool movie ideas but that's it

Quote from: wise on November 01, 2022, 04:33:02 AM

when you say God you are actually talking about Satan.

No, when I say God, I mean God, who has been deceiving people since genesis.

Quote from: wise on November 01, 2022, 04:33:02 AM

God does not deceive us, God does not lie. Because there is no reason for him to do that.

Sure there is, to screw with mankind.

Quote from: wise on November 01, 2022, 04:33:02 AM

if someone is lying, that person cannot be God.

So you are saying your god is so incompetent and pathetic that it can't lie?

Quote from: wise on November 01, 2022, 04:33:02 AM

Oh, as I write this, I'm also taking the possibility that you weren't really confused at all and that maybe you made a pact with the devil.

Or, why not consider the more logical possibility, I see it as fiction, but recognise the god character is vastly more evil.

Man will never understand God.  It's like man trying to fathom and understand all of the universe.

You can perceive God however you choose, but your perception, just like mine and any others, is abysmally small and doesn't and will never come close to understanding.

If you knew Jesus then you would know God.

The problem is that you can't come before God with sin. Christians believe we need Jesus as our ambassador before God because of our own wretchedness.

You were promised Jesus for so long, God couldn't have given us a better gift, or a better Messiah as he promised to deliver.

One could argue the main point of the Torah was to prophesise the Messiah.

How do you know this? Have you actually met them both or is this just more made up fluff.

It’s totally ironic how people like you can play the religious card and everyone has somehow  got to accept what you say despite it being total BS.

Jesus does not demand genital mutilation Jack.

And more deflection.

Do you claim that Jesus is God, or that they are fundamentally separate entities?

It isn't my place to know.

Which is just an excuse to ignore all the evil.

You were promised Jesus for so long, God couldn't have given us a better gift, or a better Messiah as he promised to deliver.

Sure he could, not giving such an abhorrent system in the first place.

The good 'ol holy bible, still bringing people together!

I love how whoever wrote the book of Genesis couldn't count. Let's see.

God made the first two people on Earth - Adam and Eve. 1 +1=2. Adam and Eve then had two sons - Cain and Abel. 2 +2=4. Cain kills Abel 4-1=3 (which keaves, Adam, Eve, and Cain) and then Cain goes off and takes a wife in another land.

Huh? Did I miss something?

(Did Cain marry his own mother, Eve? She is the only female on Earth, after all, isn't she? No, then where did this wife he took, come from? There is no mention of Eve having a daughter. There is also no mention of another Adam and Eve in another land who had a daughter?)

Yes, you did miss something, but it isn't that important.
in Genesis 4 it indicates Cain went to live in the land of Nod, which appeared to already have people. This is consistent with Genesis 1 being the creation account of Earth, including mankind in general, while Genesis 2 is the creation account specifically of the Garden of Eden and God's chosen people.
It also says that Adam had another son called Seth.

But all of that gets rendered pretty mute with Noah, where the only humans to survive were Noah, his three sons, and their wives. (And like what seems to happen often, one of the sons is almost immediately cursed).

Man will never understand God.

Which is just another pathetic excuse to avoid having to justify such a ridiculous belief involving worshiping such an evil being.

You can suggest your perception is abysmal, but don't go suggesting other's are.

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 04:17:33 AM

Jesus does not demand genital mutilation Jack.

And more deflection.

Do you claim that Jesus is God, or that they are fundamentally separate entities?

Quote from: Unconvinced on November 02, 2022, 05:16:44 AM

It isn't my place to know.

Which is just an excuse to ignore all the evil.

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 04:45:06 AM

You were promised Jesus for so long, God couldn't have given us a better gift, or a better Messiah as he promised to deliver.

Sure he could, not giving such an abhorrent system in the first place.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on November 02, 2022, 07:15:54 AM

The good 'ol holy bible, still bringing people together!

I love how whoever wrote the book of Genesis couldn't count. Let's see.

God made the first two people on Earth - Adam and Eve. 1 +1=2. Adam and Eve then had two sons - Cain and Abel. 2 +2=4. Cain kills Abel 4-1=3 (which keaves, Adam, Eve, and Cain) and then Cain goes off and takes a wife in another land.

Huh? Did I miss something?

(Did Cain marry his own mother, Eve? She is the only female on Earth, after all, isn't she? No, then where did this wife he took, come from? There is no mention of Eve having a daughter. There is also no mention of another Adam and Eve in another land who had a daughter?)

Yes, you did miss something, but it isn't that important.
in Genesis 4 it indicates Cain went to live in the land of Nod, which appeared to already have people. This is consistent with Genesis 1 being the creation account of Earth, including mankind in general, while Genesis 2 is the creation account specifically of the Garden of Eden and God's chosen people.
It also says that Adam had another son called Seth.

But all of that gets rendered pretty mute with Noah, where the only humans to survive were Noah, his three sons, and their wives. (And like what seems to happen often, one of the sons is almost immediately cursed).

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on November 02, 2022, 08:05:21 AM

Man will never understand God.

Which is just another pathetic excuse to avoid having to justify such a ridiculous belief involving worshiping such an evil being.

You can suggest your perception is abysmal, but don't go suggesting other's are.

So you claim to be an expert in God now and able  decide what’s evil!

Did you throw dice for that too or did you just know?

I was not wrong before, neither now.

Wrong again.
If you claim I think your god exists, then you are wrong.

Your god does not need to exist for me to be able to describe and judge it based upon its actions in your fairy tale.
Me doing so does not mean I think it actually exists.

That fiction claiming it is good, while portraying it as evil doesn't mean it is actually good.

Because otherwise you're taking a risk.

No I'm not.
If your god is the evil POS I say it is, then I wouldn't want to worship it.
If it was actually good and actually existed, it wouldn't punish me for describing the actions of your god as evil.

Not it does.

No, to make it true you would need to provide a compelling argument.

If God has a bad role in a text, the person in that text is "current God", that person is the devil.

So you are just saying your god is the devil.

I'm sure everyone who reads what you write here has taken care you not to write anything negative about Devil

Who here is claiming the devil is good?
The only indication we have that the devil is bad, are the alleged claims of an evil tyrant.
With how evil god is, why should we believe the Bible (or any other religious text) which allegedly came from this god, regarding the being it claims is evil?
That would be like believing Hitler's description of the Jews.

No, it is your God

It can't be. I have no god.

It's inconceivable for someone as smart as you to believe in evolution.

Why?
There is plenty of evidence for it.
What is inconceivable is for someone as smart as me to think a god would solve that problem rather than pushing it back.

Where are the innumerable intermediate forms that must have existed between man and other living things in your evolution?

Dead.

But notice how you just avoid the far bigger issue.

You are happy to claim evolution can't possibly be real, but ignore the fact that if we need a creator, so does your god.
So I'll ask again, who created your god.

And if I say, "No, he can lie if he wants to," you say, "Then your God is a liar."

No, I don't. I say that means your god can lie, and thus if someone is lying, they could still be god, that them lying doesn't mean they aren't god.

If he spoke to create chaos and suffering, he wouldn't be God, he would be Satan.

Why?
Are you just saying your god is Satan?

So you don't realize that when you reject God, you actually believe in Satan.

No, I think they are both fictional.

You are lying. Prove it chaos.

Take a look at the weather and all the natural disasters associated with it.
There is plenty of chaos.

Your ordinary God has create you.

I have no god. My parents created me.

Your denial of the facts

They aren't facts.

Every unbiased (believer) reader

That just shows how biased you are.
As far as you are concerned they need to be believers to be unbiased, which is incredibly biased.

No, it would. She is the God of Good and Evil both.

Which means it is not a good god.

What would me, me and people like me do in this world? Who would we try to call to the right path? Such a world would be boring.

So you think unless you can choose to murder people your life is boring?
I don't need evil to not be bored.

If it were up to you, you would only want evil in the world.

Wrong again.
As I said earlier, the difference between me and the fictitious, evil POS you worship is that if I could stop rape, I would. If I could eliminate cancer I would.

You finally got the point, somehow you got it right.

At which point, your god is not good, your god is evil.
It would mean there is really no such thing as good, instead there are only different levels of evil, with the least evil being called good, while not really being good itself.
This means as soon as your god does evil, it is evil.

0=+1-1

But that isn't what you are suggesting.
You are suggesting good is 0 and evil is 1.
There are no negative numbers in your world to represent good and evil.

But with what I say, there is good and evil, with good being positive and evil being negative.
But that doesn't demand you balance them.

She didn't do it. The malevolent simulator teenageer tiran devil who rules the world did.

So again, you are saying your god, the creator of the world is the devil, and you worship the being that opposes it commonly called Satan, but you refer to that being as god.

Only between me and people like me there wouldn't be any claims, there wouldn't be any goals, there wouldn't be any striving for things.

If you think you need evil to have fun and goals, then you are evil.

Quote from: JackBlack on November 02, 2022, 03:26:10 AM

Nope, once more you are wrong.
...

I was not wrong before, neither now.

Of course you are.

And what's with the splitting of threads? I thought you were against that?

OMG you're going to get it now Jack! You split wises post! He hates that. He hates getting his arse handed to him over and over and over again all in the one epic take down

In this 'god vs Satan' thing. We only ever get told about one side of the story and are forbidden to seek the other.

That's propaganda and I hate that shit. A red flag whenever you are prevented from even learning what the opposing side is about

Honestly, from all the 'warnings' we get about hell, the devil sounds much better. It seems he values freedom - the right to live how you want. No rules. No endless prostration. Drink, get high, listen to heavy metal, sleep around, have fun, enjoy yourself etc. This you can do following Satan. Your life and your soul is yours.

In God's eyes, he owns you. Your soul. You have no freedom and are forever subservient to a master. To hell with that! I live free!

(obviously I don't believe in these characters but that's my take on how to interpret the subject).

Go Satan! 

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 04:45:06 AM

If you knew Jesus then you would know God.

The problem is that you can't come before God with sin. Christians believe we need Jesus as our ambassador before God because of our own wretchedness.

You were promised Jesus for so long, God couldn't have given us a better gift, or a better Messiah as he promised to deliver.

One could argue the main point of the Torah was to prophesise the Messiah.

How do you know this? Have you actually met them both or is this just more made up fluff.

It’s totally ironic how people like you can play the religious card and everyone has somehow  got to accept what you say despite it being total BS.

I have personally met Jesus, yes. Only once have I stood before him, now he walks with me. Trust me one is preferable to the other.

You don't have to accept anything I say. I'm not forcing you.

In God's eyes, he owns you.

Yes.

I belong to him.

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 04:17:33 AM

Jesus does not demand genital mutilation Jack.

And more deflection.

Do you claim that Jesus is God, or that they are fundamentally separate entities?

Quote from: Unconvinced on November 02, 2022, 05:16:44 AM

It isn't my place to know.

Which is just an excuse to ignore all the evil.

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 04:45:06 AM

You were promised Jesus for so long, God couldn't have given us a better gift, or a better Messiah as he promised to deliver.

Sure he could, not giving such an abhorrent system in the first place.

Quote from: Smoke Machine on November 02, 2022, 07:15:54 AM

The good 'ol holy bible, still bringing people together!

I love how whoever wrote the book of Genesis couldn't count. Let's see.

God made the first two people on Earth - Adam and Eve. 1 +1=2. Adam and Eve then had two sons - Cain and Abel. 2 +2=4. Cain kills Abel 4-1=3 (which keaves, Adam, Eve, and Cain) and then Cain goes off and takes a wife in another land.

Huh? Did I miss something?

(Did Cain marry his own mother, Eve? She is the only female on Earth, after all, isn't she? No, then where did this wife he took, come from? There is no mention of Eve having a daughter. There is also no mention of another Adam and Eve in another land who had a daughter?)

Yes, you did miss something, but it isn't that important.
in Genesis 4 it indicates Cain went to live in the land of Nod, which appeared to already have people. This is consistent with Genesis 1 being the creation account of Earth, including mankind in general, while Genesis 2 is the creation account specifically of the Garden of Eden and God's chosen people.
It also says that Adam had another son called Seth.

But all of that gets rendered pretty mute with Noah, where the only humans to survive were Noah, his three sons, and their wives. (And like what seems to happen often, one of the sons is almost immediately cursed).

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on November 02, 2022, 08:05:21 AM

Man will never understand God.

Which is just another pathetic excuse to avoid having to justify such a ridiculous belief involving worshiping such an evil being.

You can suggest your perception is abysmal, but don't go suggesting other's are.

Jock, I missed nothing. What's the point of the story of Genesis in the bible if Adam and Eve are not the exclusive first humans on Earth?  The existence of the land of Nod implies multiple Adam and Eves were created, simultaneously, even though Genesis explicitly does not say it. In fact, it implied God created a fully functioning city of people with buildings and homes, which someone called the land of Nod. (You'd have to be nodding to buy any of it. It makes sense maybe in a dream)

It's a safe bet or argument to declare the entire book of Genesis if not the entire Old Testament, as allegory. They are lessons for the reader. There is no literal truth to any of it.

Quote from: wise on November 02, 2022, 04:51:41 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on November 02, 2022, 03:26:10 AM

Nope, once more you are wrong.
...

I was not wrong before, neither now.

Of course you are.

And what's with the splitting of threads? I thought you were against that?

No, I am not.

I'm still against splitting of threads, but that's the way to talk with my jock.

That fiction claiming it is good, while portraying it as evil doesn't mean it is actually good.

No, it means. If you're going to talk about fiction, you have to talk about fiction. Unless you're talking fiction, that's your own opinion. It's your own opinion that he's bad. Clearly, he's not bad in this fiction. Since this thought that belongs to you does not belong to fiction, it is your own thought. That's why you believe it exists, it exists and it's bad. This is your God, not ours. You believe your God is evil because you yourself are evil. But no problem, I am here to balance you.

If it was actually good and actually existed, it wouldn't punish me for describing the actions of your god as evil.

In that case she would be a liar and this time you would say that there is no God because she is a liar. No, she should punish you depends on your extraordinary humilating talkings and sins. All things aside, he has a reputation. You are mocking him, that is, he will not be affected by this, but his creations will be affected. Oh yes, he cares what we think. I respect him unlike you.

No, to make it true you would need to provide a compelling argument.

There is no compulsion in belief, belief is a choice. You clearly choose to insult God by describing her as a childish evil tyrant. This is your belief, how your God is. If your God is like the real God we believe, chances he will punish and reward you are equally. Because a childish and unjust God does not have to judge you fairly. But if your God is wrong and he is a just God, it is certain that what you say will come at a cost.

So you are just saying your god is the devil.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that what you think is your God is actually Devil. He is the one guiding you right now. According to the verse, once he deceive you,  he does not allow you to see the truth. I'm trying to fix your problem. You insist on this. I would like to remind you that too much insistence is harmful to the heart. No heart can handle so many consecutive mistakes for a long time. God doesn't want to hurt you, and neither do I. But you do it yourself with your persistent mistakes.

The only indication we have that the devil is bad, are the alleged claims of an evil tyrant.

It is the opposite of what you think. Divine knowledge says that the devil is the evil tyrant. But you do not accept this part while you accept the other parts. Clearly the devil is preventing you from seeing this. I'm working on the problem.

It can't be. I have no god.

Saying you don't have a god is the view Devil has imposed on you. You say the same thing he wants you to say because you adore him. Otherwise, you would be completely neutral on the matter.

Do you believe in God? No, isn't it? Then who cares what others believe? Not in your cares, but he cares.

There is plenty of evidence for it.

The evidence against evolution is stronger than in favor. I asked a simple question, where are the intermediate forms between 10 IQ and 100 IQ? 20,30,40,50,60,70,71,72,73.... Where are the IQ animals, how similar are they to humans? Did all humans, including those living on the islands, evolve in the same direction at the same time? These are nonsense, these are childish. Don't put the blame on God. Whether or not God exists, but evolution is nonsense.

So I'll ask again, who created your god.

I guess your mind is elsewhere. This is your first time asking this question. You can find the answers you are looking for in the articles I publish from time to time. I'm not a theology professor, I can't make a definitive judgment about the issues that the clergy don't explain, but I can give my opinion. There is singularity in my opinion. We have all left God in some way and will return to him. Being was always being, and non-being was always non-existence. God has always been, so we always have been. We have lived this worldly life countless times and still do. But I don't know your situation. There's a good chance you're a disposable NPC3. You are clearly different from the others, but that doesn't make you see the truth. Or the algorithm you have is just based on generating reverse arguments. I know a few more such people, so I have experience about you. Oh, you can't fool me. You should have realized that all this time.

No, I don't. I say that means your god can lie, and thus if someone is lying, they could still be god, that them lying doesn't mean they aren't god.

It's the God you believe, not ours. The idea that a liar could be God would not make sense to anyone who believes in God. This idea is yours, clearly he is your God. Your God is an evil childish tyrant and can lie too. This has nothing to do with us. In our opinion, you are describing the devil. What you think is God is the devil himself.

Are you just saying your god is Satan?

It is your God who Satan.

No, I think they are both fictional.

But one of those your fictional things has blinded you to see reality. So it can't be only fictional.

Take a look at the weather and all the natural disasters associated with it.
There is plenty of chaos.

Weather and natural disasters are all natural, none of them unusual. You failed to prove the chaos.

My parents created me.

Hahaha, that's childish. Storks also may have brought you.

As far as you are concerned they need to be believers to be unbiased, which is incredibly biased.

Not. That's why I said that it is necessary for  believers because they are not prevented from seeing the truth by the devil unlike unbelievers. I mean Devil free people.

Which means it is not a good god.

It depends on what you mean by good and bad. There is no absolute evil, like white and black, good and evil are relative. If you destroy the black, the grays will be bad. You can go up to white like this and you can define white as bad last. These are relative. For example, according to you I am bad, to me you are bad. If it weren't for you, I would argue with believers because they believe little. I hope you understand this. God is good because he is just. Fairness is good enough for me.

As I said earlier, the difference between me and the fictitious, evil POS you worship is that if I could stop rape, I would. If I could eliminate cancer I would.

That's why you're not God. You didn't understand anything from what I wrote above.
1) The person who rules the world is not God, but the "current God".
2) For good to exist, evil must also exist.

This means as soon as your god does evil, it is evil.

This funny way of thinking can only be said by someone with an automatic algorithm. I have never said anywhere that God does evil. He is your fiction, your God.

You are suggesting good is 0 and evil is 1.
There are no negative numbers in your world to represent good and evil.

I thought you were good at math. Here 0 is God, +1 is me, -1 is you. In order to she create  me as good, she create a bad you also. This is a fair stance. Indeed, good and evil are relative. For example, if we approach the subject in the context of the devil, you are a very good person and according to him, I am a bad person. So it's all relative. There is no such thing as absolute evil, it's just your perception. In this context, God would not be good or bad, but he would be just. Whether we are -1 or +1, we think that he is a good God because it is a good thing that he created us.

So again, you are saying your god, the creator of the world is the devil, and you worship the being that opposes it commonly called Satan, but you refer to that being as god.

You don't understand. "current God" here means the one who dominates it. God created us, but the creator of NPCs like you may be the devil.

If you think you need evil to have fun and goals, then you are evil.

I didn't say anything like that. I don't understand where you came up with this as your life is completely wrong.

I have personally met Jesus, yes. Only once have I stood before him, now he walks with me. Trust me one is preferable to the other.

Like children meet their imaginary friend?
How do you know you met him, rather than someone else or your imagination?

Jock, I missed nothing. What's the point of the story of Genesis in the bible if Adam and Eve are not the exclusive first humans on Earth?  The existence of the land of Nod implies multiple Adam and Eves were created, simultaneously, even though Genesis explicitly does not say it. In fact, it implied God created a fully functioning city of people with buildings and homes, which someone called the land of Nod. (You'd have to be nodding to buy any of it. It makes sense maybe in a dream)

It's a safe bet or argument to declare the entire book of Genesis if not the entire Old Testament, as allegory. They are lessons for the reader. There is no literal truth to any of it.

Like I said, there are 2 separate creation accounts in Genesis, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

If they are both taken as creation accounts of Earth, they directly contradict each other.
But they can be taken as Genesis 1 being the creation of Earth, which ends with the creation of man; and then separately as Genesis 2 where God made his chosen people, starting with man and then creating other things, finishing with female.

One thing I am absolutely certain of is that it is not simply meant as allegory.
Genesis 5 destroys that notion entirely.
Why would allegory need to give a detailed account of the lineage from Adam to Noah?
Just what purpose does it serve?

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 09:09:14 PM

I have personally met Jesus, yes. Only once have I stood before him, now he walks with me. Trust me one is preferable to the other.

Like children meet their imaginary friend?
How do you know you met him, rather than someone else or your imagination?

Do want to know?

I could tell you.

No, it means. If you're going to talk about fiction, you have to talk about fiction.

And I am.
I am using the actions that this being commits in this work of fiction to judge it by.
In this fiction, God is a childish evil tyrant.
If you wish to object to that, you need to deal with what this god does in this work of fiction, not just say this work of fiction claims this god is good.
Do Slytherins claiming Voldemort is good make him good in Harry Potter? No.

In that case she would be a liar

Why?
Because it chose to torment people? That means it is evil.
Not tormenting people for eternity even though they hurt your feelings doesn't make you a liar.

There is no compulsion in belief, belief is a choice.

As much as plenty of people say that, it really isn't.
You can't simply choose to believe something.
(Assuming free will isn't an illusion) You can choose to pretend to believe, but you can't choose to believe.

This is your belief, how your God is.

No, not my god. Your god.
I have no god.
Continually calling it my god wont magically make it so.

But if your God is wrong and he is a just God, it is certain that what you say will come at a cost.

If a god exists and is just it would recognise why people would not believe in a good, just god. As such it would not punish them for it.
It would recognise why people describe the Abrahamic god as an evil tyrant.
If it was going to punish anyone based upon religion, it would punish people like you for trying to promote the worship of a childish evil tyrant.
So no, a just god would not punish me for what I have said. Only an evil god would, which would just prove that it is evil.

I'm saying that what you think is your God is actually Devil.

So you are saying nothing is the devil, as I have no god.

I'm trying to fix your problem.

If you truly were, you would stop spouting such nonsense. You would stop falsely claiming that I believe your god exists, you would stop claiming it is my god, as I have no god. Instead, you would start focusing on the alleged actions of this childish evil tyrant and trying to explain why those abhorrent acts don't make it evil.
So you aren't trying to fix my problem. You are trying to fix your own problem, the problem that your god is an evil tyrant and I recognise that.

It is the opposite of what you think. Divine knowledge says that the devil is the evil tyrant.

What divine knowledge? The divine knowledge that depicts your god as an evil tyrant and which we have absolutely no reason to trust?

Otherwise, you would be completely neutral on the matter.

Completely neutral like not picking a god at all, instead of picking a particular god?

Do you believe in God? No, isn't it? Then who cares what others believe?

How about anyone who cares about actions of groups like ISIS?
What people believe can affect their actions and cause them to commit atrocities.
If everyone with those beliefs just shut up and kept it to themselves, then people wouldn't need to speak out against it.

The evidence against evolution is stronger than in favor.

Yet you cannot provide a single piece of evidence and instead just appeal to ignorance.

Where are the IQ animals

There are plenty of animals with varying levels of intelligence. Some people even suggest some are smarter than humans.
Examples include dogs, cats, birds, whales and primates.

evolution is nonsense.

If you want to claim evolution is nonsense, prove it.

God has always been

So you are saying a being with incredible complexity can exist without a creator. So why should we need one?

It's the God you believe, not ours.

So you believe your god is incapable of lying, that it is limited?
Otherwise, it could be lying.

The idea that a liar could be God would not make sense to anyone who believes in God.

Technically it is more to people who worship and obey this god.
Because if this god is lying, why are you worshipping and obeying it?
But there is nothing nonsensical about a god lying.
If we look at other religions, like the Norse, they had Loki, whom I pretty sure lied.
So it certainly seems like people can believe in a god that lies.

In our opinion, you are describing the devil

Simply because you refuse to accept your god is evil. But no, I am describing your god.

But one of those your fictional things has blinded you to see reality.

No, it hasn't.
You are yet to demonstrate how what I am saying is false.
Instead you just repeatedly assert I am wrong.

Weather and natural disasters are all natural, none of them unusual.

And chaotic.
So there is chaos.
So you have failed to prove your god can't lie.

Not. That's why I said that it is necessary for  believers because they are not prevented from seeing the truth by the devil unlike unbelievers.

i.e. they must be incredibly biased, with your position being incredibly biased.
You cannot fathom the idea that someone could be unbiased, and think your religion is false and think that the Abrahamic god is evil.

It depends on what you mean by good and bad. There is no absolute evil, like white and black, good and evil are relative.

So your god is not good.
But as I said before, I entirely disagree.
Good and evil are not relative in the sense that you can make a bad action good by having a much worse action.

God is good because he is just.

Your god is an evil tyrant, that is not just at all. That means it isn't good.

That's why you're not God.

So I'm not God, because God is evil and I'm not. Got it.

1) The person who rules the world is not God, but the "current God".

So is your god too powerless to stop it, or does it just not care?

2) For good to exist, evil must also exist.

No, it doesn't.
Good can exist without evil.
I don't need to be able to murder someone to be able to help them.

This funny way of thinking can only be said by someone with an automatic algorithm.

No, it can be said by anyone who rationally approaches the subject, and reads what you have said.
According to you, good is the absence of evil.
And according to you, your god has created evil, that means your god has committed an evil act, and thus your god is evil.

I thought you were good at math. Here 0 is God, +1 is me, -1 is you.

I am, are you?
Because you don't seem to be, as you are yet again contradicting yourself.
Once more in your world, good and evil are relative, where good is merely the absence of evil.
So to make it simple, I am 0, without evil, making me good; while you are 1, the most evil, making you evil.
Your god is 0.5. That means it has half the evil that you do, also making it evil.
If you want it to be entirely relative, then your god is good compared to you, but evil compared to me.

we think that he is a good God because it is a good thing that he created us.

No, WE don't. You might think that, but I certainly don't.
I don't think it created me at all.
If I did think this god created everyone, then I think it is evil, due to all the evil people it created, and so many people that would seem to have been created just to suffer.

You don't understand. "current God" here means the one who dominates it.

So you are saying your god is dominated by the devil?

I didn't say anything like that. I don't understand where you came up with this as your life is completely wrong.

No. If it wasn't for you and bad guys like you, the world wouldn't need to exist. Only between me and people like me there wouldn't be any claims, there wouldn't be any goals, there wouldn't be any striving for things. In a world that consisted of only white color, everyone would get bored and leave.

Here you are claiming that good and evil must exist, and that if we only had goodness, that everyone would get bored and leave.

Quote from: JackBlack on November 03, 2022, 01:38:16 AM

Quote from: disputeone on November 02, 2022, 09:09:14 PM

I have personally met Jesus, yes. Only once have I stood before him, now he walks with me. Trust me one is preferable to the other.

Like children meet their imaginary friend?
How do you know you met him, rather than someone else or your imagination?

Do want to know?

I could tell you.

If you can actually demonstrate that you know, rather than just believe, then yes.

Jack you're intelligent enough to understand that I can't prove a personal experience.

I'll tell you the story, I was a cringe edgy Satanist at one point. It goes to show Jesus can forgive anyone, even me.

I was messing around with Crowley, Lavey and various books on Magick. I was performing lesser banishing rituals of the pentagram, hexagonal rituals and was trying some other techniques with a fair bit of success.

Jura probably can relate in one way or another.

I decided to try an invoking ritual, towards the end I felt a genuine presence, it manifested curiosity, and knowledge more than anything else. However I now know that was a ruse.

I asked the spirit to show itself to me, immediately I realised that what I wanted to happen hadn't happened. I was taken to a place that was entirely white, everything was perfect white. I saw a man in a white robe with red trim, his robe stood out against the perfect whiteness as it was even whiter than white. I still can't describe it in human words. He held a giant sword nearly as tall as him, which was on fire.

The moment I saw him I knew that he was the ultimate power in the universe. People talk about Gods love but I felt his power. I had no doubt that this was the creator of the universe.

He looked directly into my eyes, his eyes like blue flame and told me.

YOU ARE MINE.

Then I was back in my living room and the spirit had gone leaving only a lingering feeling of terror and obedience.

The next day I read the New Testament and was born again. I never messed around with magick ever again.

Verily I do, and will always belong to him.

Magick is real, you should be careful messing with things you don't understand.

Jack you're intelligent enough to understand that I can't prove a personal experience.

Yes, I'm also smart enough to know that people can imagine all sorts of things, and claim to know things they don't.
I know just how wonderful and vivid people's imagination can be.

But even with your claim, there is nothing to indicate it is Jesus.
The best you get is some divine being.
That could be the God of Christianity, it could be Jesus, it could be Satan, it could be Zeus, or Thor or Odin or Ra, or just an incredibly powerful alien.

It goes to show Jesus can forgive anyone, even me.

I find the idea that everyone needs to be forgiven for being human to be abhorrent.
I find the idea that this god is the one that gets to forgive you for the wrongs you have done to other people to be abhorrent.

If I wrong some person, the only person who has the right to give me forgiveness for that is that person.

Someone else forgiving me for that would be entirely meaningless.
It would be like Stalin forgiving Hitler for the holocaust of the Jews.

I like wises singularity idea, all from one, shattered and flung away to combine and dissolve, evolve, and learn all things and all points of view, everything sampled and then returned to the whole.

But it wouldn’t need or want reverence, that would be like narcissus and his reflection.

That could be the God of Christianity, it could be Jesus, it could be Satan, it could be Zeus, or Thor or Odin or Ra, or just an incredibly powerful alien.

or it could be the any number of substances he whiffs up his nose. Glue, whiteout, paint thinner, meth

Who the hell feels at peace when someone claims ownership of your body and 'soul' 'YOU ARE MINE'. To that I'd tell whatever apparition my drug induced brain made up to get fucked

Thankfully, I dont do any drugs so I've never had some apparition bother me

Nobody owns me. I am subservient to no one


Interesting experiment would be if you 'did the same thing' to someone who never had any idea of Jesus or the Abrahamic faith. Say, only the Egyptian gods. Maybe they would envisage Ra instead of Jesus.

So which one is real? Because one is an absolute affront to the other.

Who the hell feels at peace when someone claims ownership of your body and 'soul' 'YOU ARE MINE'. To that I'd tell whatever apparition my drug induced brain made up to get fucked

There are so many books on magick, so many powerful people that participate in the rituals.



The CIA studied astral projection, I'm sure you know. Some of the results went far beyond coincidence.

There are things we just dont understand.

Before him you would have fallen to your knees. You often like to talk about gazing at the stars. Try looking at what created them. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

Edit.

Real talk.
I've lost a lot of friends I grew up with to meth.

or it could be the any number of substances he whiffs up his nose. Glue, whiteout, paint thinner, meth

Who the hell feels at peace when someone claims ownership of your body and 'soul' 'YOU ARE MINE'. To that I'd tell whatever apparition my drug induced brain made up to get fucked

Thankfully, I dont do any drugs so I've never had some apparition bother me

This I feel is the most appalling shame, our ancestors took a startling range of psychedelics, and I feel were the better for it, if done in moderation and in circumstances where the recipient is protected and comfortable, that sense of belonging to the whole, of awe in the presence of nature and an opening of the minds capabilities is way more liberating than D1’s vision of the soul collector.

Psilocybin, my old weapon of choice has been the subject of experiments to help depression and it would seem to back my admittedly biased view.

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63475630

There's a lot of evidence in your favour for that Jura. Especially at low doses.

I'm not a fan of psychedelics but I've read the material and there's as much evidence to show that they are as helpful as anything else.

Changing your perspective can be a big thing for people.

I did do mushrooms once ten years ago and had fun to be honest.

And I am.

No you are not. You just want me to accept your illusions about my faith. Then it turns not my belief, but yours.

Because it chose to torment people? That means it is evil.

Again, he does not chose anything. People live with the consequences of their choices.

As much as plenty of people say that, it really isn't.

Usually you would think as the majority think. For example, the earth is a sphere. So the general opinion that is not mistaken about the shape of the world is wrong here in your mind. It is a false assumption to assume that free will is not an illusion.

No, not my god. Your god.
I have no god.
Continually calling it my god wont magically make it so.

No, not my god. Your god. Continually calling it my god wont magically make it so. If you're going to talk about God in my faith, you have to accept it as I believe. Not according to your imagination. Even if you think that the God in your imagination belongs to me, it belongs to you because you created the fiction. He is clearly your God.

So no, a just god would not punish me for what I have said. Only an evil god would, which would just prove that it is evil.

Your thought is a theory. It may or may not be true. Ultimately, it's God's own decision. I mean, I empathize if I would be God I would punish you, but it's none of my business.

So you are saying nothing is the devil, as I have no god.

You have a God ie Devil.

So you aren't trying to fix my problem. You are trying to fix your own problem, the problem that your god is an evil tyrant and I recognise that.

I have not such a problem. I am trying to solve your problem with God. Oh, if you don't want I help you, you can say it outright.

The divine knowledge that depicts your god as an evil tyrant and which we have absolutely no reason to trust?

Nope. Divine knowledge that says God is good and your current God is the devil.

Completely neutral like not picking a god at all, instead of picking a particular god?

Nope. It's like not saying what the devil wants you to say. It's like really questioning existence.

Quote from: wise

Do you believe in God? No, isn't it? Then who cares what others believe?

How about anyone who cares about actions of groups like ISIS?

This is a very wrong example. If you really think so, you are on the road to bigotry. You understand that what ISIS did was wrong as well as what you did was wrong, right? Just because some people believe in them doesn't justify what they did.

Yet you cannot provide a single piece of evidence and instead just appeal to ignorance.

Despite the evidence, you're almost blind. As stated in this verse, it is due to your blindness. I'm putting the facts right in your eyes and you're still asking where they are. Look, I'm asking again; Where are the transitional forms between the 10 IQ animals turning into 100 IQ humans? The non-existence of these forms already refutes evolution. There is no evolution, evolution is over, forget it, open your eyes!

There are plenty of animals with varying levels of intelligence. Some people even suggest some are smarter than humans.

Pathetic examples. You couldn't explain which animal turned into a human? What animal do we look like, where are the intermediate forms? You either don't understand or pretend to not understand. Look, did man come from apes? Ok, where are the half-human half-ape 50 IQ creatures? Where is the creature with an IQ of 75, 0.75 humans and 0.25 monkeys? Where is 0,95 human and 0,10 monkey creatures... and where are %81-%19 creatures where are %82-18 creatures.... Did an entire race suddenly become human? Where are the rest, those who haven't been able to complete evolution? I don't mean you here.

If you want to claim evolution is nonsense, prove it.

It has been disproven above. But you did not provide anything prove its being existed.

So you believe your god is incapable of lying, that it is limited?

I already said you would say this. This is a logic game you play. God doesn't lie. It doesn't matter if it's being an ability or not. Doesn't say. Dot.

Otherwise, it could be lying.

It is your God, inother say, Devil could be lying.

Technically it is more to people who worship and obey this god.

You're lying, clearly lying. For example, I did not find this idea logical. You can also ask others. I don't think they would find this idea logical either. But this idea makes sense to you, because he is your God (Devil), not ours.

No, it hasn't.

Yes it has.

Your god is an evil tyrant, that is not just at all. That means it isn't good.

Nope. It is your God who is evil tyrant. If you're talking about my faith, you have to stay in context. My belief is that your God is the devil. There is no such thing as my God, there is only one universal God, regardless your acceptance or denial.

So I'm not God, because God is evil and I'm not. Got it.

Evil is your God. Your faith is none of my business. I really do not care your belief but you are here because you care our belief. What does force you to interest our belief?

So is your god too powerless to stop it, or does it just not care?

You don't read what I write, you don't understand what you read. You look at each message in its own context. However, I have said this many times. It's part of the personal growth of the first generation creatures around him. If you're clearly a king in a place, you don't sow the field. Do you understand this? Do you really understand me or am I currently chatting with a program based on 1011000s? God has created countless worlds like this in infinite time. Why should he take care of each one individually? With so many staff. Can't you really understand this?

No, it doesn't.
Good can exist without evil.

You obviously don't understand math. Read again, 0=+1-1. This applies not only to good and bad, but to any concept that is opposite to each other, such as cold and hot, black and white. The existence of one requires the existence of the opposite. But even though Ozzy isn't here, I'm still here because you are. You understand? It's all about balance.

So to make it simple, I am 0, without evil, making me good; while you are 1, the most evil, making you evil.
Your god is 0.5. That means it has half the evil that you do, also making it evil.

You have unbelievably terribly poor math. Seriously, what was the last grade you got in math? Did you pass by asking the teacher?To create something out of nothing, you take something out with its reverse. This is what your predecessors, who are now talking about the creation of the universe, also claim. Antimatter. Does it sound familiar now? You looked surprisingly smarter than you were.

If I did think this god created everyone, then I think it is evil, due to all the evil people it created, and so many people that would seem to have been created just to suffer.

These are matters between you and your God, none of my business.

So you are saying your god is dominated by the devil?

I mean dominating the world.

Here you are claiming that good and evil must exist, and that if we only had goodness, that everyone would get bored and leave.

No. There is no mention here that it is necessary to do evil for fun and goals. It's all your wrong and biased delusion, your manipulation. The existence of good and bad does not require that good people do evil. Got it? If you can't, format:C