Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?

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Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« on: September 28, 2022, 02:11:07 PM »
I do think clouds show evidence of spherical earth.

The first, and most direct evidence argued on other sites.   The fact at sunset or sunrise, the sun shines on the bottom of clouds.

Example


The way the light hits the bottom of the clouds would be impossible on a flat earth when the sun would always be above the clouds. 

Now.  On a cloudy day, when the sky is filled with clouds.  Is that more evidence of a spherical earth?

I would think, no matter the cloud cover.  On a day with little or no ground fog, there would always be a clear band of light between the clouds and the ground.

Example



But that was not the case in my area today.  In the afternoon, with no reported ground fog.

Pictures of what I saw.  Clouds all the way to the horizon.





The picture were taken looking west. Or looking south west. The cloud ceiling was about 4,000 ft.    The weather map showed clear skies 40 miles to the west.


If the earth was flat…



But from the actual two cloud photographs for the clouds closest to the horizon.  They seem more bunched together. 

And if there is a big enough space between clouds at the horizon.  You can see more and more of the sides of the clouds. And the tops of the clouds seem visible.  Which seems to prove spherical earth.



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Stash

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2022, 05:56:40 PM »
Not to mention, Ye Olde Mountain Shadow:



Not sure how a non-setting sun can do that when it's 3000 miles high...

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2022, 06:35:54 PM »
Not to mention, Ye Olde Mountain Shadow:



Not sure how a non-setting sun can do that when it's 3000 miles high...


Well.   I’m guessing this thread is going to be ignored by flat earther’s….

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Stash

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2022, 09:34:07 PM »
I made these a long time ago in response to under-lit clouds and mountain shadows created by the Sun...

Globe explanation:


FE:


FE just doesn't work.

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2022, 11:28:40 PM »
Let's look at your last 3 diagrams, of the flat Earth...

The Sun is shown in 3 positions, moving away from a cloud, and shows how the angle of sunlight lowers with further distance away, right?

What is NOT shown, are the angles of sunlight from MORE distance away, like it suddenly STOPPED moving further away or something!

Why would you/he show the FIRST part of it, but not the REST of it? 

Because it would show the Sun goes lower and lower, to the point of sunlight hitting the BOTTOM of the cloud, right? Oh, maybe you DON'T know that part yet, unless you see it on a VALID, ACCURATE diagram, showing the ENTIRE event, not just the part that helps your fairy tale!

Have you ever noticed that when clouds are lit from below, the Sun still lights up the whole sky above us, above those clouds? If the Sun was physically LOWER than the clouds, going down a ball Earth 'curve', which you believe 'proves' is why sunlight is hitting the clouds from below, then the clouds would 'block' out all sunlight ABOVE these clouds too. But we obviously can see it as before, still in sunlight, If the entire sky is covered with clouds, the sky above them, is still in sunlight, which proves, the Sun is NOT below the clouds, over a ball Earth. The sky would be dark, from clouds blocking out all sunlight, as the Sun would be dipping down over a ball Earth!

There's your answer.
 

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Mikey T.

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2022, 11:32:43 PM »
Let's look at your last 3 diagrams, of the flat Earth...

The Sun is shown in 3 positions, moving away from a cloud, and shows how the angle of sunlight lowers with further distance away, right?

What is NOT shown, are the angles of sunlight from MORE distance away, like it suddenly STOPPED moving further away or something!

Why would you/he show the FIRST part of it, but not the REST of it? 

Because it would show the Sun goes lower and lower, to the point of sunlight hitting the BOTTOM of the cloud, right? Oh, maybe you DON'T know that part yet, unless you see it on a VALID, ACCURATE diagram, showing the ENTIRE event, not just the part that helps your fairy tale!

Have you ever noticed that when clouds are lit from below, the Sun still lights up the whole sky above us, above those clouds? If the Sun was physically LOWER than the clouds, going down a ball Earth 'curve', which you believe 'proves' is why sunlight is hitting the clouds from below, then the clouds would 'block' out all sunlight ABOVE these clouds too. But we obviously can see it as before, still in sunlight, If the entire sky is covered with clouds, the sky above them, is still in sunlight, which proves, the Sun is NOT below the clouds, over a ball Earth. The sky would be dark, from clouds blocking out all sunlight, as the Sun would be dipping down over a ball Earth!

There's your answer.
Clouds are water vapor.  When it's completely overcast is it pitch dark?  Wtf are you smoking.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2022, 01:28:33 AM »
The way the light hits the bottom of the clouds would be impossible on a flat earth when the sun would always be above the clouds. 

Clouds are not solid objects and their density is not uniform. The sun can be above them but still light up the bottom more than the sides or tops. Most of us have been in an airplane. No matter what, you will find the sun is always above the clouds, regardless of the time of day

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2022, 01:29:35 AM »
Right, clouds are water vapor, even when they are dark storm clouds, where everything on Earth looks dark, looks as if it were NIGHT-TIME, or at DUSK, and how can clouds darken out the Earth when the Sun is above them, does make sense, in my argument.

The easiest way to understand this, is if you extend the distance of the Sun, after your last diagram, and you'll see what happens, eventually. 

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Mikey T.

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2022, 02:36:16 AM »
Right, clouds are water vapor, even when they are dark storm clouds, where everything on Earth looks dark, looks as if it were NIGHT-TIME, or at DUSK, and how can clouds darken out the Earth when the Sun is above them, does make sense, in my argument.

The easiest way to understand this, is if you extend the distance of the Sun, after your last diagram, and you'll see what happens, eventually.
Yes, storm clouds will block more of the sun than regular clouds.  Due to their water content.  It still doesn't quite get as dark as night now does it?  Plus, the picture of the clouds you complained about were not, in fact, dark storm clouds now was it.  You are getting worse at this.

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2022, 03:15:23 AM »
Let's look at your last 3 diagrams, of the flat Earth...

You are referring to a flat earth where right angle trig should dominated

Quote
The Sun is shown in 3 positions, moving away from a cloud, and shows how the angle of sunlight lowers with further distance away, right?

No.  In the flat earth model, the sun is always circling above the clouds 300 to 3000 miles. 

Quote
What is NOT shown, are the angles of sunlight from MORE distance away, like it suddenly STOPPED moving further away or something!


The sun really doesn’t move “farther” away in the flat earth delusion.  It is always circling above the clouds. 

Please provide a scale drawing of the farthest the sun can circle away from your viewing point in the flat earth model before it circles back on the day with the most sunlight hours in the northern hemisphere.  If your so concerned.

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Why would you/he show the FIRST part of it, but not the REST of it? 

Rest of what. I can only take pictures of reality.   The sun at sunset goes beyond the horizon.  The earn turns until the curvature of the earth blocks the sunlight in the shadow of the earth’s curvature we call night.  The sunlight at night is physically blocked from view at night by the earth.  This is because with the earth’s rotation, the sun is now at a position relatively lower than the horizon.


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Because it would show the Sun goes lower and lower,




No.   We proved here: Horizon did not block duck from view
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90722.0

That the sun would not be blocked physically from view by a flat earth.

Now explanation why the clouds go all the way to the horizon?

Please draw how in the flat earth delusion how the sun would project a mountain’s shadow on the cloud bottoms the sun is supposedly always above. 
 
Just more meaningless dribble by you…
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 03:17:40 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2022, 03:23:25 AM »
The way the light hits the bottom of the clouds would be impossible on a flat earth when the sun would always be above the clouds. 

Clouds are not solid objects and their density is not uniform. The sun can be above them but still light up the bottom more than the sides or tops. Most of us have been in an airplane. No matter what, you will find the sun is always above the clouds, regardless of the time of day

Thanks to Stash…


They both swear that the sun is near them. But it's not. It not near anyone. It never at any point gets closer or further away. This isn't "proof" that the sun is actually huge and incredibly distant. It is "probable cause" that the sun is being projected through our own perceptions, and we really have no idea where the hell it is.

How have we navigated for centuries without having any idea where the sun is?

Simple. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Finally, you nailed it. The sun sets and the sun rises. It does not go around like a halo in the sky. It rises up from the horizon and sets below the horizon.

And nothing like flying above the sun in just a little Cessna...



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Wolvaccine

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2022, 04:07:41 AM »
Even by glober models the sun is 150 million km away. It is an illusion to think you can be above the sun. The order will always be 'sun -> clouds -> earth'.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2022, 04:18:14 AM »
Even by glober models the sun is 150 million km away. It is an illusion to think you can be above the sun. The order will always be 'sun -> clouds -> earth'.

Except your not “above” the sun.  The aircraft is positioned on the rotating earth where the sun is lower on the horizon.


I hope you can see in the video provided by Stash the sun is below the clouds with the sunlight shining up through the bottom of the clouds to the viewer in the aircraft.  Perfectly explained by spherical earth.  Impossible on flat earth.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 04:19:53 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2022, 11:56:35 AM »
Just wanted to add new photo.  Taken from a structure from a height about 140 feet above the ground.   

Clouds all the way to the horizon at sunrise.  Just enough break in the clouds to see the sun peek through here and there.


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JackBlack

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2022, 08:08:29 PM »
Let's look at your last 3 diagrams, of the flat Earth...

The Sun is shown in 3 positions, moving away from a cloud, and shows how the angle of sunlight lowers with further distance away, right?

What is NOT shown, are the angles of sunlight from MORE distance away, like it suddenly STOPPED moving further away or something!

Why would you/he show the FIRST part of it, but not the REST of it?
Because the principle is already established, and you can go on forever.
With the sun above the clouds you cannot have it shining onto the bottom of the cloud or cast a shadow upwards.

It doesn't matter how much further away you go, the angle will get shallower and shallower, approaching 0 degrees, but it will never become negative.

It doesn't matter how far away you go, as h2 is higher than h1, the sunlight will always be approaching the clouds from partly above.


Have you ever noticed that when clouds are lit from below, the Sun still lights up the whole sky above us, above those clouds? If the Sun was physically LOWER than the clouds, going down a ball Earth 'curve', which you believe 'proves' is why sunlight is hitting the clouds from below, then the clouds would 'block' out all sunlight ABOVE these clouds too.
No, it wont.
This is easiest to understand from simple observations of times when the sun is behind a cloud, where you can easily tell that the sunlight is passing through the cloud.

Clouds do not block all light.

There's your answer.
So our "answer" is that there is no FE explanation, and FEers resorting to deflecting away from the issue to pretend there is an issue with a RE, resorting to lies to pretend there is a problem.

Even by glober models the sun is 150 million km away. It is an illusion to think you can be above the sun. The order will always be 'sun -> clouds -> earth'.
That order is only the case if you measure from the centre of Earth.
If instead you use a cartesian coordinate system, centred on you, with up being up for you, then you can be above the sun.

At mid night, the order would be clouds>You>Earth>Clouds>sun, with the sun roughly 150 Gm below you.

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2022, 02:44:19 AM »

With the sun above the clouds you cannot have it shining onto the bottom of the cloud or cast a shadow upwards.

It doesn't matter how much further away you go, the angle will get shallower and shallower, approaching 0 degrees, but it will never become negative.

It doesn't matter how far away you go, as h2 is higher than h1, the sunlight will always be approaching the clouds from partly above.


It doesn't HAVE to be at a negative, when the light hits partly below clouds.

That DOES indicate it is a flat Earth, not a ball Earth. 

A long plain, or flat surface, when it is an extremely LONG surface, like on Earth, will not only create horizons on it, there are other features not seen on shorter flat surfaces, like on floors, etc.

Models show it, too.

When the Sun sets below the horizon, due to perspective over distance, it is obviously at a lower angle from our position, while at the same height above Earth, it's distance away from us lowers the angle of it, until it cannot be seen at all. It casts long shadows on us, and objects, being at a lower angle, of course.

Sunlight hits us, when it isn't seen, and makes long shadows on us, and objects, without being seen, and lights up the bottom of clouds, when not seen....

A vast plain, with a Sun, that is distant, past the horizon, unseen, at it's lowest possible angle to still cast it's light upon us there, that's the answer.

If it were a ball Earth, the Sun would have curved away from us, at that point, if it were physically blocked out over a ball Earth. Many other differences, as well.

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Stash

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2022, 02:53:51 AM »

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2022, 03:39:12 AM »

It doesn't HAVE to be at a negative, when the light hits partly below clouds.

On a flat earth the sun is always 3000 miles above the clouds.  Unless you have a different number?

And you haven’t an explanation why the clouds go to the horizon for the pictures in the opening post.   


Quote
That DOES indicate it is a flat Earth, not a ball Earth. 

No.  It indicates spherical earth.


Cited source…..
Quote

This explanation has its problems. For starters, a sun circling 3,000 miles (5,000 km) above a flat Earth would never actually "set," even at the most southern latitudes. YouTube user Wolfie6020, a globe-Earth proponent, demonstrated this by building a scale model of the flat-Earth-style sun as it would be seen from Sydney on a vernal equinox. As shown in his video, the sun (actually a drone carrying a ping-pong ball) never dips below the horizon, even at its farthest point from the observer.

https://www.livescience.com/63648-flat-earth-explanation-for-the-equinox.html



If you missed it, “ For starters, a sun circling 3,000 miles (5,000 km) above a flat Earth would never actually "set," “

You again….
Quote
A long plain, or flat surface, when it is an extremely LONG surface, like on Earth, will not only create horizons on it,

There would be only one horizon on a flat earth.



Quote
there are other features not seen on shorter flat surfaces, like on floors, etc.

Still no explanation how a flat earth physically blocks a single light source like the sun from view where it cannot be brought back into view with binoculars or a telescope.  Especially when the sun stays the same size through its travels.


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Models show it, too.

What working models.   The cited experiment by Wolfie6020 modeled the sun wouldn’t set for Sydney on a vernal equinox.

Quote
When the Sun sets below the horizon,

Which is a property of spherical earth

Quote
due to perspective over distance,

Which doesn’t explain why the clouds go all the way to the horizon in my pictures.

Proven wrong in this thread: Horizon did not block duck from view
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90722.0





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it is obviously at a lower angle from our position,

Sun still above the clouds. 

Right angle math shows the viewing angle will never be zero, and not below a flat earth surface.

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it's distance away from us lowers the angle of it, until it cannot be seen at all.

The sun never changes size due to distance and doesn’t explain why something like binoculars that can gather more light than our own eyes cannot bring it back into view.

Quote
It casts long shadows on us, and objects, being at a lower angle, of course.

The earth’s surface casting a shadow to create night is a property of curved earth.

On a flat earth, mountains and trees would always be a viewing angle above the horizon.  So would the sun.  For example.  Looking west, I should see the shadow outline of the Rocky Mountains at sun set.  I only see the shadow line of the trees two or three miles across the field. 

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Sunlight hits us,

Sunlight is for the most part line of sight projected radiation.  If sunlight is not making it to our eyes to not be seen, the sun’s light/radiation is physically blocked from view.



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when it isn't seen,

Like physically blocked from view by the earth’s curvature where binoculars cannot bring it back into view.


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and makes long shadows on us, and objects,

How does that work on the beach looking out to the sun setting over the ocean, or while out at sea?


Quote
without being seen, and lights up the bottom of clouds, when not seen....

Please show how this is possible on a simple drawing?


Quote
If it were a ball Earth, the Sun would have curved away from us,

No.  In spherical earth, where you rotate relatively away for sunset while you rotate towards the sun for sunrise.  Where the center of the sun and center of the earth stay essential the same distance apart.  With no changes in the suns viewing size as required by your perspective fantasy.


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at that point, if it were physically blocked out over a ball Earth. Many other differences, as well.

No.  The sun setting behind the horizon to cast the shadow of the earths curvature to create night.  To have the sun’s radiation physically blocked from view is a property of spherical earth.

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JackBlack

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2022, 04:13:06 AM »
It doesn't HAVE to be at a negative, when the light hits partly below clouds.
Yes it does.
If the light is coming from below the clouds, the height of the light source relative to the clouds MUST be negative.
The angle of elevation of the light source, relative to the clouds, MUST be negative.

If it was positive, it would be coming from above, hitting the clouds from above, not below.

That DOES indicate it is a flat Earth, not a ball Earth.
You asserting already refuted BS will not magically make it true.

A round Earth can explain why the clouds are illuminated from below. A flat Earth can't.

A long plain, or flat surface, when it is an extremely LONG surface, like on Earth, will not only create horizons on it
That is your baseless claim that you are yet to substantiate in any way.

Again, what magic will magically cause perspective to magically stop working?

When the Sun sets below the horizon, due to perspective over distance
So never.
The sun has NEVER set due to perspective over distance.
That is because perspective cannot do that.

You are trying to use entirely circular reasoning where you baselessly assert that Earth is flat, to falsely claim that what is observed on the very real round Earth we live on will magically happen on a FE.

Unless you can explain what magic causes this, then stop just asserting the same delusional BS.

that's the answer.
The answer is quite simple, Earth is round.

\
If it were a ball Earth, the Sun would have curved away from us, at that point, if it were physically blocked out over a ball Earth. Many other differences, as well.
Trying forming something resembling a coherent argument.

Yes, there are many differences between a flat Earth with the sun circling overhead and a round Earth.
For a Round Earth, the sun can set. For that flat Earth, it can't.
For a round Earth, around sunrise and sunset the light from the sun will be going upwards, illuminating clouds from below.
For that flat Earth, the sun will always be above the clouds, and thus will never illuminate clouds from below.

So yes, there are many differences, and reality matches a RE, not a flat Earth.

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2022, 04:20:36 AM »

It doesn't HAVE to be at a negative, when the light hits partly below clouds.

On a flat earth the sun is always 3000 miles above the clouds.  Unless you have a different number?

And you haven’t an explanation why the clouds go to the horizon for the pictures in the opening post.   


Quote
That DOES indicate it is a flat Earth, not a ball Earth. 

No.  It indicates spherical earth.


Cited source…..
Quote

This explanation has its problems. For starters, a sun circling 3,000 miles (5,000 km) above a flat Earth would never actually "set," even at the most southern latitudes. YouTube user Wolfie6020, a globe-Earth proponent, demonstrated this by building a scale model of the flat-Earth-style sun as it would be seen from Sydney on a vernal equinox. As shown in his video, the sun (actually a drone carrying a ping-pong ball) never dips below the horizon, even at its farthest point from the observer.

https://www.livescience.com/63648-flat-earth-explanation-for-the-equinox.html



If you missed it, “ For starters, a sun circling 3,000 miles (5,000 km) above a flat Earth would never actually "set," “

You again….
Quote
A long plain, or flat surface, when it is an extremely LONG surface, like on Earth, will not only create horizons on it,

There would be only one horizon on a flat earth.



Quote
there are other features not seen on shorter flat surfaces, like on floors, etc.

Still no explanation how a flat earth physically blocks a single light source like the sun from view where it cannot be brought back into view with binoculars or a telescope.  Especially when the sun stays the same size through its travels.


Quote
Models show it, too.

What working models.   The cited experiment by Wolfie6020 modeled the sun wouldn’t set for Sydney on a vernal equinox.

Quote
When the Sun sets below the horizon,

Which is a property of spherical earth

Quote
due to perspective over distance,

Which doesn’t explain why the clouds go all the way to the horizon in my pictures.

Proven wrong in this thread: Horizon did not block duck from view
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90722.0





Quote
it is obviously at a lower angle from our position,

Sun still above the clouds. 

Right angle math shows the viewing angle will never be zero, and not below a flat earth surface.

Quote
it's distance away from us lowers the angle of it, until it cannot be seen at all.

The sun never changes size due to distance and doesn’t explain why something like binoculars that can gather more light than our own eyes cannot bring it back into view.

Quote
It casts long shadows on us, and objects, being at a lower angle, of course.

The earth’s surface casting a shadow to create night is a property of curved earth.

On a flat earth, mountains and trees would always be a viewing angle above the horizon.  So would the sun.  For example.  Looking west, I should see the shadow outline of the Rocky Mountains at sun set.  I only see the shadow line of the trees two or three miles across the field. 

Quote
Sunlight hits us,

Sunlight is for the most part line of sight projected radiation.  If sunlight is not making it to our eyes to not be seen, the sun’s light/radiation is physically blocked from view.



Quote
when it isn't seen,

Like physically blocked from view by the earth’s curvature where binoculars cannot bring it back into view.


Quote
and makes long shadows on us, and objects,

How does that work on the beach looking out to the sun setting over the ocean, or while out at sea?


Quote
without being seen, and lights up the bottom of clouds, when not seen....

Please show how this is possible on a simple drawing?


Quote
If it were a ball Earth, the Sun would have curved away from us,

No.  In spherical earth, where you rotate relatively away for sunset while you rotate towards the sun for sunrise.  Where the center of the sun and center of the earth stay essential the same distance apart.  With no changes in the suns viewing size as required by your perspective fantasy.


Quote
at that point, if it were physically blocked out over a ball Earth. Many other differences, as well.

No.  The sun setting behind the horizon to cast the shadow of the earths curvature to create night.  To have the sun’s radiation physically blocked from view is a property of spherical earth.

If you ever see your 'curve', anywhere, that's a start. Not having one, isn't very good.

You've seen a flat surface with a horizon, every day on Earth. THAT is what a vast flat surface looks like, there's NO CURVE IN SIGHT, ANYWHERE AT ALL.

Do horizons look curved to you? Do you see a slight curve to horizons, anywhere? No, they are all flat, end to end, each and every one of them. 

How would you know flat surfaces don't have horizons, without seeing a large, Earth-sized flat surface, because I'd like you to explain that one, I'm sure it'll be a goodie...



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JackBlack

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Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2022, 04:53:30 AM »
You've seen a flat surface with a horizon
WHERE?

Again, you are just using the same pathetic circular reasoning where you baselessly assert Earth is flat to pretend it is flat.
We understand how perspective works.
It doesn't magically create horizons for a flat surface.
If you wish to assert such delusional BS you will need to explain how it does so.
How does perspective magically cause a flat object to obstruct the view from something above it to something above it?

every day on Earth.
That is what a round surface looks like, not a flat surface.

Do horizons look curved to you?
Yes, as repeatedly explained.
They are a circle centred on a point below me.
They are the same angle of dip all around, just like you would expect for a RE.

Again, if you want to assert they should magically be curved in some other way for a RE, try clearly explaining just how they should be curved, how they should appear.

Because for a RE, you would expect a flat horizon, a circle centred on a point below you, with the same distance all around and the same angle of dip all around.
And for a FE, you wouldn't expect a horizon at all.

How would you know flat surfaces don't have horizons
By understanding how light works and what causes horizons.

Again, what you describe as perspective and vanishing and so on, is simple trig.
The angle of dip to an object a height h below you, is given by arctan(-h/d).
This is a very simple function that never magically stops and changes direction.

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2022, 05:06:45 AM »
[

If you ever see your 'curve', anywhere,


Trying to change your argument?

Yes.   When I see the clouds curve with the atmosphere to the horizon.



Quoted for you in another thread…

The Leica DISTO D2 is 1/16-inch accurate to a distance of 328 feet.

The surface used for this test, is a perfectly calm lake, without any winds to cause a disturbance over the lake surface. I've seen a local lake in early morning, and it looks like glass, it is so smooth and flat. That's what is ideal for such tests.

The lake should ideally be at least 2-3 miles in length, or longer than that, also.

Our laser level is placed at a specific height above the lake, along it's edge, pointed outward over it. A target is placed about 300 feet out, marked in inches, and fractions, on one side, and in cm and mm on the other side, like a ruler. It must remain steady, as a gauge. Other gauges placed nearby, would help to confirm it is accurate.

One mile is 5280 feet. Our first target is 300 feet away, or about 1/17.5 of a mile. 

And then, we repeat the test, from the first target, to a second target, 300 feet away from it, and so on, over a mile distance on the lake.

With 17 points used in this test, and each point having 1/16 accuracy variance, the total combined variance would be about one inch, and a bit more, over one mile distance. That is the maximum variance, it could be less than that, too.

With a one inch variance, over one mile of distance, there would be about 8 inches of 'curvature', if it DID exist, and WOULD be measured, with this test, if it is actually there TO be measured.

Of course, we would repeat this test, several times, to confirm our findings. 



To claim your 'curvature' is 'too slight' to be measured, is nothing but a lame excuse. It is EASILY measured, and in many, many more ways than the one I've mentioned here.


Why bother.  You already ignore this…

Shrugs…

Quote
Power lines over Lake Pontchartrain elegantly demonstrate the curvature of Earth

https://www.zmescience.com/science/news-science/power-lines-curvature-earth-04233/amp/



And you ignored this too.

And the Rainy Lake Experiment.

Quote
Proof of Earth Curvature: The Rainy Lake Experiment

http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Proof+of+Earth+Curvature%3A+The+Rainy+Lake+Experiment

Both that don’t require the impossible calmness between there is always air currents, differences in temperature, biologics splashing around, the wake of boats, and tides.  Measurements at the edge of a instruments tolerances.

And this has been cited for you too…
Quote
There is one huge towing tank of about 500m, so long that the tank has been built following the Earth curvature - as the water surface would do - and not straight to avoid vertical position offset of models under test (about 18 cm). The second towing tank is shorter (about 220m) but it can generate controlled waves to analyze hull behavior at difference sea force levels.

https://dewesoft.com/case-studies/naval-and-marine-performance-testing-and-simulation







Quote
You've seen a flat surface with a horizon, every day on Earth. THAT is what a vast flat surface looks like, there's NO CURVE IN SIGHT, ANYWHERE AT ALL.


And it’s been explained to you the earth is big enough there is no perceivable curvature for the limited capability of our eyes.


Just like this…

.

Is part of this concept curve curing to the right and down hill.



Quote
Do horizons look curved to you? Do you see a slight curve to horizons, anywhere? No, they are all flat, end to end, each and every one of them. 

Lots of things look one way, and are something else.


Quote

So what's actually going on here? Turns out, these bizarre natural phenomena are just an elaborate optical illusion - an illusion so good, it'd be impossible to believe it without the proper equipment.

But if you get some surveying equipment or GPS markers to actually measure the difference between the 'top' of the slope and the 'bottom', you'll realise that everything is actually in reverse.

"The embankment is sloped in a way that gives you the effect that you are going uphill," materials physicist Brock Weiss from Pennsylvania State University told Discoveries and Breakthroughs in Science back in 2006.

"You are, indeed, going downhill, even though your brain gives you the impression that you're going uphill."


https://www.sciencealert.com/gravity-hills-physics-defying-optical-illusion-car-drifts-uphill/amp



Again…
Experiments that prove your perspective crap doesn’t explain why the the sun becomes physically blocked from view at sunset where binoculars/zooming cannot bring it back into view.

Horizon did not block duck from view
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90722.0


Notice I post in context of actual extermination.  You only offer opinionated BS. 

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2022, 06:39:51 AM »
Your stupid duck isn't nearly far enough to work. Get the problem yet? I really hope so, by this point.

Horizons are created at a long distance, where the flat surface stops appearing to rise anymore, and this is where it forms into a horizon, it is the limiting point we can see out over a flat surface.

Unless you show me such a surface, WITHOUT a horizon on it, you're blowing smoke, and nothing else.

Since you fail to realize that you ARE seeing a flat surface with a horizon, with your own eyes, on Earth, you still need to find an ACCEPTABLE flat surface, which is LONG ENOUGH to form a horizon, which would prove I'm right, and if it does NOT form a horizon, it would prove you are right.

It appears to me, that you will never accept any surface long enough for our tests. Not like your flat floor, it 'proves' flat surfaces don't have horizons, and offer unlimited view of all things on them, too!

No, it's a joke. Sheer crap.

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2022, 10:02:12 AM »
Your stupid duck isn't nearly far enough to work.

Do some math And spit out a figure where the sun would be physically blocked by earth’s horizon.

Let’s spit ball.   The duck was roughly 400 feet away at say a hight of .1 inch off the horizon to make the math possible/meaningful.  400 feet equals 4800 inches.   .1 inches divided by 4800 gives a hight to length ratio of 0.000020833333333.

If you use the 1 inch height of the duck. 1/4800 is 0.000208333333333.

The sun 300 miles up with a length to viewing 12,000 miles gives a height to length ratio of 0.025.

Maybe I have it backwards.  But the duck right on the horizon is more restrictive than the sun 300 miles above the earth for viewing.   If perspective could physically block anything from view, it should have worked for the little duck right against the horizon.

Quote
Get the problem yet? I really hope so, by this point.

That your delusional, and your delusion is not supported by math and / experimentation. 

Quote
Horizons are created at a long distance, where the flat surface stops appearing to rise anymore, and this is where it forms into a horizon, it is the limiting point we can see out over a flat surface.

In the context of blocking long distance sight….
No. Horizons are created by something blocking your view. 

Like these trees.


Or the curvature of the earth blocking the bottom of the boat from view.




Or like the edge of this obelisk blocking the top of the obelisk from view.



Quote
Unless you show me such a surface, WITHOUT a horizon on it, you're blowing smoke, and nothing else.

It’s been proven by multiple people with different modeling perspective will not block the sun physically from view. 


Quote
Since you fail to realize that you ARE seeing a flat surface

Again
 
Has to do with our small frame of reference.

You cannot tell from this..



That this is part of a downward sloping ditch with a curve.




Quote
with a horizon, with your own eyes, on Earth, you still need to find an ACCEPTABLE flat surface,
which is LONG ENOUGH to form a horizon, which would prove I'm right, and if it does NOT form a horizon, it would prove you are right.

Like the rainy lake experiment.  That proves and verifies the curvature of the earth. 

Quote
Proof of Earth Curvature: The Rainy Lake Experiment

http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Proof+of+Earth+Curvature%3A+The+Rainy+Lake+Experiment



Quote
No, it's a joke. Sheer crap.

Then provide some actual math and experimental results instead of your delusional opinion.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2022, 10:46:59 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2022, 01:51:11 PM »
Your stupid duck isn't nearly far enough to work.

Noticed you ignored the flashlight that was visible at 360 steps



25” per step times 360 steps comes to an estimate of 750 feet.  Or 9000 inches.  With the light bulb about .5 inches off the track.   If you divide .5 inches height by 9000 inches length , you get a height to length ratio of 0.000055555555556.

Again.  For a 300 mile height for a flat earth sun, at 12,000 miles length maximum viewing distance.  300 miles divided by 12,000 miles equals 0.025.

For the flashlight viewed at 9,000 inches,  to get a ratio of 0.025 height to distance.  9,000 inches multiplied by 0.025 comes to the flashlight being a height of 225 inches above the track.  Or 18 feet above the track to keep the same scale as the flat earth scenario. 


My experiments give every advantage to perspective, and more so than the observed world. 

 Perspective never physically blocked an object from view. 

Perspective could not hide an object where the the object could not be brought back into sight with zoom.

 And perspective could not physically block a single light source from view. 

*

JackBlack

  • 22468
Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2022, 02:10:08 PM »
Get the problem yet? I really hope so, by this point.
That you don't give a damn about the truth or reality or anything like that, and instead just care about pretending Earth is flat.

Horizons are created at a long distance, where the flat surface stops appearing to rise anymore
Again, that is your baseless claim.
You are yet to justify it in any way, and you are yet to explain just what magic causes it to happen.

So again, what magic causes perspective to magically stop?
How does a flat surface magically obstruct a path of light entirely above it?
At what distance should it occur?

Unless you show me such a surface, WITHOUT a horizon on it, you're blowing smoke, and nothing else.
You mean like a flat table, which only has a "horizon" at its edge?
And no. I have an understanding of how light works and what causes perspective, while you just say "MAGIC!!"

Unless you can explain how perspective magically stops and allows a flat object to obstruct the path of light entirely above it, you are the one blowing smoke.

Since you fail to realize that you ARE seeing a flat surface with a horizon, with your own eyes, on Earth
That is not something anyone can realise, as it isn't real.
That is your fantasy,  your baseless claim you are yet to substantiate at all.
The mere existence of the horizon is evidence that Earth is round.

You not liking that doesn't magically mean a flat surface can create a horizon.
If you want to assert it can, you need to explain how.

you still need to find an ACCEPTABLE flat surface, which is LONG ENOUGH to form a horizon, which would prove I'm right, and if it does NOT form a horizon, it would prove you are right.
As you are yet to tell us just what causes the horizon, or provide any idea of how far away this horizon should be, that would be entirely impossible.
And as already demonstrated, you will just reject any evidence you are provided which will prove you wrong.

It appears to me, that you will never accept any surface long enough for our tests.
You mean I will not accept a level, round surface, like the surface of the round Earth.
Again you are trying to use circular reasoning, asserting Earth is flat to falsely claim this is what happens on a flat surface.

If you want to try claiming a flat surface can do this, you need to demonstrate it is flat to the required accuracy to demonstrate curvature of the surface cannot be causing it.

*

Timeisup

  • 4038
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2022, 08:14:24 AM »
Your stupid duck isn't nearly far enough to work.

Do some math And spit out a figure where the sun would be physically blocked by earth’s horizon.

Let’s spit ball.   The duck was roughly 400 feet away at say a hight of .1 inch off the horizon to make the math possible/meaningful.  400 feet equals 4800 inches.   .1 inches divided by 4800 gives a hight to length ratio of 0.000020833333333.

If you use the 1 inch height of the duck. 1/4800 is 0.000208333333333.

The sun 300 miles up with a length to viewing 12,000 miles gives a height to length ratio of 0.025.

Maybe I have it backwards.  But the duck right on the horizon is more restrictive than the sun 300 miles above the earth for viewing.   If perspective could physically block anything from view, it should have worked for the little duck right against the horizon.

Quote
Get the problem yet? I really hope so, by this point.

That your delusional, and your delusion is not supported by math and / experimentation. 

Quote
Horizons are created at a long distance, where the flat surface stops appearing to rise anymore, and this is where it forms into a horizon, it is the limiting point we can see out over a flat surface.

In the context of blocking long distance sight….
No. Horizons are created by something blocking your view. 

Like these trees.


Or the curvature of the earth blocking the bottom of the boat from view.




Or like the edge of this obelisk blocking the top of the obelisk from view.



Quote
Unless you show me such a surface, WITHOUT a horizon on it, you're blowing smoke, and nothing else.

It’s been proven by multiple people with different modeling perspective will not block the sun physically from view. 


Quote
Since you fail to realize that you ARE seeing a flat surface

Again
 
Has to do with our small frame of reference.

You cannot tell from this..



That this is part of a downward sloping ditch with a curve.




Quote
with a horizon, with your own eyes, on Earth, you still need to find an ACCEPTABLE flat surface,
which is LONG ENOUGH to form a horizon, which would prove I'm right, and if it does NOT form a horizon, it would prove you are right.

Like the rainy lake experiment.  That proves and verifies the curvature of the earth. 

Quote
Proof of Earth Curvature: The Rainy Lake Experiment

http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Proof+of+Earth+Curvature%3A+The+Rainy+Lake+Experiment



Quote
No, it's a joke. Sheer crap.

Then provide some actual math and experimental results instead of your delusional opinion.

Delusional opinions what can you do?

People have opinions about all sorts of funny things, quite often based on no more than fluff.

Forget clouds if you want to get a clear idea of what the earth really look like devoid of opinions check this out.

https://www.planetary.org/articles/20130723-beautiful-science-by-elektro-l

"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Timeisup

  • 4038
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2022, 08:24:29 AM »
I do think clouds show evidence of spherical earth.

The first, and most direct evidence argued on other sites.   The fact at sunset or sunrise, the sun shines on the bottom of clouds.

Example


The way the light hits the bottom of the clouds would be impossible on a flat earth when the sun would always be above the clouds. 

Now.  On a cloudy day, when the sky is filled with clouds.  Is that more evidence of a spherical earth?

I would think, no matter the cloud cover.  On a day with little or no ground fog, there would always be a clear band of light between the clouds and the ground.

Example



But that was not the case in my area today.  In the afternoon, with no reported ground fog.

Pictures of what I saw.  Clouds all the way to the horizon.





The picture were taken looking west. Or looking south west. The cloud ceiling was about 4,000 ft.    The weather map showed clear skies 40 miles to the west.


If the earth was flat…



But from the actual two cloud photographs for the clouds closest to the horizon.  They seem more bunched together. 

And if there is a big enough space between clouds at the horizon.  You can see more and more of the sides of the clouds. And the tops of the clouds seem visible.  Which seems to prove spherical earth.



Why would you not think that every natural phenomenon if looked at and understood in the correct way would not just confirm our current reality.

Would it not be delusional to imagine otherwise?
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

Re: Do Clouds Show Evidence of Spherical Earth?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2022, 09:12:34 AM »
I do think clouds show evidence of spherical earth.

The first, and most direct evidence argued on other sites.   The fact at sunset or sunrise, the sun shines on the bottom of clouds.

Example


The way the light hits the bottom of the clouds would be impossible on a flat earth when the sun would always be above the clouds. 

Now.  On a cloudy day, when the sky is filled with clouds.  Is that more evidence of a spherical earth?

I would think, no matter the cloud cover.  On a day with little or no ground fog, there would always be a clear band of light between the clouds and the ground.

Example



But that was not the case in my area today.  In the afternoon, with no reported ground fog.

Pictures of what I saw.  Clouds all the way to the horizon.





The picture were taken looking west. Or looking south west. The cloud ceiling was about 4,000 ft.    The weather map showed clear skies 40 miles to the west.


If the earth was flat…



But from the actual two cloud photographs for the clouds closest to the horizon.  They seem more bunched together. 

And if there is a big enough space between clouds at the horizon.  You can see more and more of the sides of the clouds. And the tops of the clouds seem visible.  Which seems to prove spherical earth.



Why would you not think that every natural phenomenon if looked at and understood in the correct way would not just confirm our current reality.

Would it not be delusional to imagine otherwise?


Ask turbonium2, shrugs.