Clearing the Muddle that is Jesus

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 14, 2022, 05:39:25 AM

Sure they do. It's called a canon.

Revelation self-imposed itself as canon, which is an immediate red flag that it is not.

How did Revelation "self-impose" itself? All books of the bible are supposedly canon.

Revelation says the following as a warning.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book

So basically, "Hey everyone, I wrote this somewhat shitty yet metal-as-hell book of random weird prophecies which can't even be clearly interpreted. In case anyone was thinking of dismissing the lot of this as garbage musings of either a fraud or a senile old man (depending on who really wrote it), you can't do that! Because ummm... plagues! God will visit the ten plagues on you. And if you think of cutting out portions of Revelation, you're not allowed into this pretty imaginary city (where a careful reading of the Bible tells you that none of us are going to anyway, because not one of us is as good as God hopes for)."
https://livingtolovehim.com/2016/01/23/no-one-is-worthy-no-not-one/
This is how Revelation justifies itself as sacred literature. Every other book of value earns its place by being at least okay (some are pretty close to only okay) sacred literature. Revelation emotionally blackmails its readership, claiming to be a good book when its message is mostly one of fear and limited salvation.

So basically, "Hey everyone, I wrote this somewhat shitty metal-as-hell book of random weird prophecies which can't be clearly interpreted.[/b]  In case anyone was thinking of dismissing the lot of this as garbage musings of either a fraud or a senile old man (depending on who really wrote it), you can't do that! Because ummm... plagues! God will visit the ten plagues on you. And if you think of cutting out portions of Revelation, you're not allowed into this pretty imaginary city (where a careful reading of the Bible tells you that none of us are going to because not one of us is as good as God hopes for)." This is how Revelation justifies itself as sacred literature. Every other book of value earns its place by being at least okay sacred literature. Revelation emotionally blackmails its readership, claiming to be a good book when its message is mostly one of fear and limited salvation.

Matthew 24:35-37
New Life Version
No One Knows When Jesus Will Come Again
35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father know





Matthew 13

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

Quote from: Stash on October 14, 2022, 07:40:41 AM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 14, 2022, 05:39:25 AM

Sure they do. It's called a canon.

Revelation self-imposed itself as canon, which is an immediate red flag that it is not.

How did Revelation "self-impose" itself? All books of the bible are supposedly canon.

Because ummm... plagues! God will visit the ten plagues on you.

God already drowned the earth and genocided everyone save for a handful. Why do you think plagues are that out of line for the big guy?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 14, 2022, 01:29:46 PM

So basically, "Hey everyone, I wrote this somewhat shitty metal-as-hell book of random weird prophecies which can't be clearly interpreted.[/b]  In case anyone was thinking of dismissing the lot of this as garbage musings of either a fraud or a senile old man (depending on who really wrote it), you can't do that! Because ummm... plagues! God will visit the ten plagues on you. And if you think of cutting out portions of Revelation, you're not allowed into this pretty imaginary city (where a careful reading of the Bible tells you that none of us are going to because not one of us is as good as God hopes for)." This is how Revelation justifies itself as sacred literature. Every other book of value earns its place by being at least okay sacred literature. Revelation emotionally blackmails its readership, claiming to be a good book when its message is mostly one of fear and limited salvation.

Matthew 24:35-37
New Life Version
No One Knows When Jesus Will Come Again
35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows the day or the hour. No! Not even the angels in heaven know. The Son does not know. Only the Father know

The quote in context is to do with the Temple.

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

The disciples assume that the Temple will fall only at the end of the world. That is, they have successfully managed to turn the Temple into a false god. Actually, the Temple was built by Herod, and lasted all of forty more years before its destruction (c. 70AD, the Romans trashed it).

Exact context has nothing to do with Jesus's return. It is about the end of the world, that is, the actual death of planet Earth (that date is uncertain, because it marks the date when Earth simply falls apart, not a moral or religious event). And it is about the end of the Temple, a far more sure thing.

As for Jesus's return, we are clearly told that Jesus returned from the dead, and appeared not only to his disciples once but numerous times, including to like 100 people or something. We are in no uncertain terms told that Jesus HAS returned. Not WILL, that Jesus ALREADY lives among us. Second Coming? A lie and a false prophecy. When Jesus is already back, what need is there for him to "return in glory" in order to condemn the world that he refused to condemn, even as he was being crucified?

God already drowned the earth and genocided everyone save for a handful. Why do you think plagues are that out of line for the big guy?

Don't you think we should have seen plagues befall Martin Luther?

About this Book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment. I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic.

First and foremost, the apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear and plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak clearly of Christ and his deeds, without images and visions. Moreover there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so exclusively with visions and images. For myself, I think it approximates the Fourth Book of Esdras; I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.

Moreover he seems to me to be going much too far when he commends his own book so highly (Revelation 22)—indeed, more than any of the other sacred books do, though they are much more important—and threatens that if anyone takes away anything from it, God will take away from him, etc. Again, they are supposed to be blessed who keep what is written in this book; and yet no one knows what that is, to say nothing of keeping it. This is just the same as if we did not have the book at all. And there are many far better books available for us to keep.

Many of the fathers also rejected this book a long time ago; although St. Jerome, to be sure, refers to it in exalted terms and says that it is above all praise and that there are as many mysteries in it as words. Still, Jerome cannot prove this at all, and his praise at numerous places is too generous.

Finally, let everyone think of it as his own spirit leads him. My spirit cannot accommodate itself to this book. For me this is reason enough not to think highly of it: Christ is neither taught nor known in it. But to teach Christ, this is the thing which an apostle is bound above all else to do; as Christ says in Acts 1:8, “You shall be my witnesses.” Therefore I stick to the books which present Christ to me clearly and purely.

He says this in the 1522 “Preface to the Revelation of St. John” in his translation of the New Testament.

Don't you think that God would have cursed the Lutheran church, and sentenced him to some ghastly torment? At the very least, Martin Luther's firstborn son should have died.

Martin Luther found peace when he married an ex-nun named Katharine von Bora, whom he had helped to escape from her nunnery in an empty fish barrel and had taken refuge in Wittenberg.

Katharine von Bora was born in 1499, the daughter of an impoverished nobleman. In 1504 she went to the convent school of the Benedictine order in Brehna (near Halle) and entered the convent of Nimbschen, near Grimma in 1508.

In 1515 she took her vows and became a nun at the soonest possible date. In 1523 she left the convent and ended up in Wittenberg. By June 1525, echoing a trend across Europe as former nuns and monks married, she became Mrs Martin Luther.

Katharine was 16 years younger than Martin and together they had six children. Luther doted on his large family but was able to devote himself to the simpler pleasures of life, gardening, writing music.

Six children. And the only record of plague that I could find is nearly 44 years after he wrote that 1522 thing, when he is called from a sickbed to resolve a dispute and dies on the return trip. No locusts, frogs, sick cattle, or anything else. She suffered a miscarriage, one death at eight months, and one at thirteen years, but this is common. None of the existing children died directly following this pronouncement.

Crap, crap, crap. There is nothing true about this curse, just as there is nothing true about Revelation. You can feel free to decide if you want to believe it, but as for me, I agree with Luther. I stick to books which present Christ to me clearly and purely.

How did Revelation "self-impose" itself?

It is sentient.

Quote from: Stash on October 14, 2022, 07:40:41 AM

How did Revelation "self-impose" itself?

It is sentient.

Like the Necronomicon?

Don't you think that God would have cursed the Lutheran church, and sentenced him to some ghastly torment?

No

Quote from: JimmyTheLobster on October 15, 2022, 08:06:02 AM

Quote from: Stash on October 14, 2022, 07:40:41 AM

How did Revelation "self-impose" itself?

It is sentient.

Like the Necronomicon?

You guys are hilarious. Sure, we'll go with that. But the self-imposition I was referring to was the dire warning about leaving it out of canon or trying to change it.

    Don't you think that God would have cursed the Lutheran church, and sentenced him to some ghastly torment?

Quote

No

Exactly. Nothing about this idea makes any sense.

With so many inconsistencies, revisions, translations, alterations, interpretations, it seems like the bible doesn't represent the word of a God at all. It's just a book of fables and philosophies.

If we understand that the word of God is not a set of laws, not a history, and definitely not a book of science (sorry, all attempts to shoehorn Genesis's creation usually fail) then these inconsistencies don't matter.

The Bible is myth. And lest you say "Yes, it's a myth, it's false," lemme explain what the original purpose of myth was.

https://sage-advices.com/what-was-the-purpose-of-myths/

But myths are more than mere stories and they serve a more profound purpose in ancient and modern cultures. Myths are sacred tales that explain the world and man’s experience. Myths are as relevant to us today as they were to the ancients. Myths answer timeless questions and serve as a compass to each generation.

Mythology serves four functions: The Metaphysical, Cosmological, Sociological, and Pedagogical.

Mythology plays an important role is because it becomes a foundation for a lot of religions that are practiced. These particular myths are stories that tell us about battles between good and evil. Every religion has stories like that, both ancient and modern. They show how our ancestors thought and what they believed.

So what exactly is the purpose of Judeo-Christian myth? Well, it has to do with reading between the lines.

The first book in the Bible chronologically is actually Job. Which is odd, because Job cites several laws about the care for widows and orphans, which he insists he has kept. Job is in some ways the most profound book of the Bible because it tells the story of a man accused wrongly, a story that will play out again during Jesus's crucifixion. From there were have a very direct encounter with God, where God first accuses Job and then defends him. A rather strange picture, but in stories we call this character establishment (in anime, this is usually filled by a waking up and getting ready scene). This is what God is like, very direct in his interaction with humans.

We then get a progression of story from Genesis, where a universe is made, the world is made, humanity is made, and finally a favored tribe is made. More importantly, during this time, we learn that this tribe came after a very dark chapter in history. Atheists seem to want to tell it as God being mean, but let's read it.

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown (Genesis 6:1-4).

Reread that.

Did you understand what you are reading? No? Here's a quick review. These were genetically tainted humans. This isn't just simple evil, but actively attempting to ruin the very nature of humans. GMOs and other crap.



So for all the people telling me that God killed all but a few humans, let me correct you a bit. These weren't humans, they were more like ogres and giants and catgirls. Nephilim. As everyone knows, catgirls must not exist. Nowadays, we humans are 100% human (though after COVID vaccines, I'm not sure). This was God culling genetic deformity. You all like Darwin right? Okay, survival of the fittest. What, you aren't pleased?

Anyway, after that, we have another two dark chapters. We have a tower of Babel (which extra text tells us was probably built on near-worldwide tyranny, and which we are told the Jews did not participate), and a strange section about a seven year famine. All of this in the framework of a family favored by God. Btw, what could create a famine that wipes out all grains for seven years? Well...

https://ancientnuclearwar.com/

So yeah, times are rough. And people searching for direction find there is a God, and that he travels with them. And we have their journey from people who believe in a very personal God to a nation that wants a king (against the advice of God) and a temple (also against the advice of God, who says that he was content wandering with his people), ultimately turning their back on God and following a cheap set of laws.
But this story doesn't end with their condemnation, nor does it end with that of their enemies. Instead, God exports his plan of salvation to this entire world (and probably all the universe, eventually). This is God who so loves the world that he is willing to die on the cross for us. Yes, the Bible mentions several times when God loses his shit. What have we learned from both Job and Genesis? This is a God whom we are modeled after. That is, everything from tantrums to making war (on other gods) to very human love are all part of who God is.

If we understand that the word of God is not a set of laws, not a history, and definitely not a book of science (sorry, all attempts to shoehorn Genesis's creation usually fail) then these inconsistencies don't matter.

The Bible is myth. And lest you say "Yes, it's a myth, it's false," lemme explain what the original purpose of myth was.

More like a fable/philosophy. As for ogres and orcs or whatever, you might as well treat Tolkien's work as equal to the bible, myth/real.

I love stuff like this:
"The Bible also talks, between the lines, about another effect of this nuclear war: Radiation poisoning of the human race."

"...between the lines..." Classic...Nonsense.

Nuh it's not nonsense.

I have read the Bible.

Then the Mahabharata, which I got in Indian History class. Then the Bible again to make sure what I wss reading was correct.

The Bible says that an "east wind" will cone and scorch them.

Genesis 41:6, “Then behold, seven ears, thin and scorched by the east wind, sprouted up after them.”
Genesis 41:23, “and lo, seven ears, withered, thin, and scorched by the east wind, sprouted up after them;”
Genesis 41:27, “The seven lean and ugly cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven thin ears scorched by the east wind will be seven years of famine.”

Not dry out, scorch. So what is happening out east of Israel? Well, at this this times, two families were fighting a  a rather large war. It describes an arrow fired (projectile weapon), mantra (detonation code), light like a second sun (I believe you've seen this), that earth below crackled and small pebbles exploded (fun fact, nuclear weapons often cause the fusion of earth into glass), steaming up a river (yay, dead fish), and we then hear that Krishna orders the weapon stopped. Even partially activated, the damage is immense but apparently this is not a simple atom bomb but a sophisticated nuclear weapon as it can continue to emit energy and can be shut off remotely (rather than blowing itself up). We are told that the reason it is shut down is that if it continues, the land will be desert for 7000 years (yes, radiation can do funny things to land). As it is, you can find out about that area. It's 2022 AD, yet even today, this land has been abandoned as "haunted" because people get sick there.

Btw, in some instances, Zeus's thunderbolt is described and the level of destruction is on par with some ancient weapon. But nowhere as much as Hindu literature is there such an explicit description of radiation poisoning. Myths tell us stories of things that are beyond the understanding of ancient people (that is, a class of people had tech (or some type of high level psychic ability), that the rest of the population did not, hence they described them as gods).

Then the Bible again to make sure what I wss reading was correct.

How do you know it's correct?

How do we know anything is correct?

We compare information, and if things line up, we can make a theory.

There is always a chance that correlation does not equal causation, but in this case you would have to explain how a fertile land suddenly goes barren for seven years. There is also a lifespan decrease which makes no sense except in the context of genetic  damage from radiation or other harsh conditions.

https://creation.com/decreased-lifespans-have-we-been-looking-in-the-right-place

This article proposes that the water canopy before the Flood broke down, opening up humans to the effects of ionizing radiation from the atmosphere. I am not sure that I agree, but they have something interesting to say about the effects of radiation on lifespan.

Ionizing radiation may cause (non-inheritable) mutations in somatic (body) cells. If this is to be the cause of us now living only 70-odd (compared to 900 or so) years, the effect would have to be rather drastic. There is no biblical evidence that the patriarchs were senescent after the first hundred years or so of their lives, so the pre-Flood 100 year old was certainly in much better condition than today’s 100 year old. (Noah in fact had his children at 500, whereas Abraham (who still lived to 175 years) seems surprised at the idea of a 100 year old becoming a father.)

Around the time of Joseph, we hear of another drop in lifespan, this time to between 40 and 80. An overall rise in radiation? I should say so! It is indeed possible that we were a hair's breadth from total nuclear apocalypse. We've gradually detoxed ourselves from radiation damage, but now we're experimenting on it again.

Do I "know" that this was the case? No. But I can make a reasonable assertion here.  We do have seven years of famine, and it says that the famine was so severe that it affected neighboring countries. This is not a simple matter of water being lacking from drought. A multiple country famine where Egypt has to help several countries in the Middle East. Out of curiousity, how close is the Middle East to India? Well, on the Risk map, they are adjacent spaces.

As for the actual distance, Israel to India is 2,822 miles, a little farther than Florida to Washington. Egypt is about 1000 more miles away.
How far can fallout travel? Well, usually only a few miles (around 50 to 70 miles, well short of that distance above). However...
https://www.quora.com/How-far-does-nuclear-fallout-spread-in-miles?share=1

Depending an particle size and wind speed , it can circle the globe a few hundred times.

It goes on to say that typically, it breaks down within an hour, depositing on the ground.

But suppose you had a freak dust storm? An "east wind", if you will? Fallout spreading to surrounding countries is possible.

How do we know anything is correct?

We compare information, and if things line up, we can make a theory.

There is always a chance that correlation does not equal causation, but in this case you would have to explain how a fertile land suddenly goes barren for seven years.

Fertile land has never gone barren before? Think dustbowl of the 1930's. There's a thing called drought.

There is also a lifespan decrease which makes no sense except in the context of genetic  damage from radiation or other harsh conditions.

So the only cause for a lifespan decrease is genetic damage from radiation? Wouldn't a rational person say, "Well, that is quite the leap?"

You might as well say, "The murder rate in Tacoma has gone up, must be because of genetic damage from radiation..." or "The potato yield in Idaho has gone down, must be because of genetic damage from radiation..."

You're not being rational.

Life expectancy at birth in the United States declined nearly a year from 2020 to 2021, according to new provisional data from the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). That decline – 77.0 to 76.1 years – took U.S. life expectancy at birth to its lowest level since 1996.

Must be because of genetic damage from radiation...

But I can make a reasonable assertion here. 

So far there's nothing reasonable about your assertion.

But suppose you had a freak dust storm? An "east wind", if you will? Fallout spreading to surrounding countries is possible.

Suppose? Take a dose of Occam's and get rational.

using mercator again i see

you really like using mercator

have you looked up how the roundies came up with mercator?

then ask yourself... why am I (bulmbles), a flatty, using mercator?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2022, 05:43:53 PM

How do we know anything is correct?

We compare information, and if things line up, we can make a theory.

There is always a chance that correlation does not equal causation, but in this case you would have to explain how a fertile land suddenly goes barren for seven years.

Fertile land has never gone barren before? Think dustbowl of the 1930's. There's a thing called drought.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2022, 05:43:53 PM

There is also a lifespan decrease which makes no sense except in the context of genetic  damage from radiation or other harsh conditions.

So the only cause for a lifespan decrease is genetic damage from radiation? Wouldn't a rational person say, "Well, that is quite the leap?"

You might as well say, "The murder rate in Tacoma has gone up, must be because of genetic damage from radiation..." or "The potato yield in Idaho has gone down, must be because of genetic damage from radiation..."

You're not being rational.

Life expectancy at birth in the United States declined nearly a year from 2020 to 2021, according to new provisional data from the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). That decline – 77.0 to 76.1 years – took U.S. life expectancy at birth to its lowest level since 1996.

Must be because of genetic damage from radiation...

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2022, 05:43:53 PM

But I can make a reasonable assertion here. 

So far there's nothing reasonable about your assertion.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on October 16, 2022, 05:43:53 PM

But suppose you had a freak dust storm? An "east wind", if you will? Fallout spreading to surrounding countries is possible.

Suppose? Take a dose of Occam's and get rational.

Okay, which is more rational? That a single wind can kill crops for seven years or that nearby countries had a weapon that made crops sick? Btw, volcanoes can also do this (they do emit radiation), if you must have an explanation of something that can make long-term crop and soil sickness.

The Dust Bowl was multiple stints of wind erosion, none of which affected more than two years in a row. That is, those involved could theoretically plant the next year. The soil was dried and blown away. Not scorched.



This describes scorching with half life of seven years. Unfortunately, none of the  elements had a half-life of seven years. So if you want to go all Occam's Razor on this, it could have been volcanic smoke blotting the sun and giving off radiation for seven years. But it was NOT a dust bowl. Dust bowls don't affect new planting, and they don't affect the cattle themselves except to make them lower market rate (i.e. reproduction is normal).

And neither of these things lower lifespan from 180+ or so to 120, with average life in some cases barely 30. You think this is a myth, but thid factors in.

You employ Occam's Razor, but this doesn't mean accepting easy facts, and ignoring those that work given the whole story just because they are unlikely.
Both volcanic radiation and nuclear radiation cause genetic damage. Wind storms do not.

So, Bronze age nuclear weapons it is.   

using mercator again i see

you really like using mercator

have you looked up how the roundies came up with mercator?

then ask yourself... why am I (bulmbles), a flatty, using mercator?

I don't ask myself such questions. I use any map I want to prove what I need.

If you are afraid of a map, you are afraid of using your rival's assumptions to disprove them because you might become a RE type if you touch a map.

I think there's something you haven't noticed about Mercator maps. They're flat. They also have a bigger than normal projection of Antarctica.

So, Bronze age nuclear weapons it is.   

Damned straight!

Also, the ancients apparently didn't use percussion (a bomb creating doing fission, as most nuke explanations talk about). Instead they describe a sutra. Some sort of resonance that activates radiation? Singing to uranium stones?

Some sort of resonance that activates radiation? Singing to uranium stones?

As Sherlock Holmes famously said:

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


In this case I think the only possibly explanation is ancient people singing to "uranium stones" and activating radiation via resonance. 

Anyone who claims any different clearly isn't looking at the evidence in a logical manner.

That's right! 

https://www.sanskritimagazine.com/vedic_science/brahmastra-nuclear-weapon-ancient-india/?amp=1

Brahmastra is released by Gayatri Mantra but in a different way. Any weapon or even a grass straw can be energized by concentrating and spelling Gayatri Mantra in exact reverse sequence of its syllables.
This method of chanting a mantra is known as viloma (normal way is anuloma). Combined effect of anuloma-viloma chanting multiplies the power of that mantra and sadhaka attains siddhi quicker than normal.

If it is so simple, then why can’t everyone who knows Gayatri mantra release Brahmastra ?

In mantra SAstra, a sadhaka (practitioner) gains siddhi over a mantra only after practicing it for certain period of time for a specified number of times with immense concentration. So, one has to be initiated to chant Gayatri Mantra first in a proper way, then one has to practice it for many years and gain command over it. Then he has to practice the reverse chanting of that mantra in same speed and frequency and again attain siddhi in it. Only after this, a person is trained how to chant Gayatri mantra for Missile purpose. He has to gain siddhi on it, and when he acquires it, he gets energized. With that energy when he releases even a grass straw by chanting that mantra it turns into Brahma Missile due to his own charged energy and the missile inturn derives it’s power from the creator, Brahma.

So by chanting this mantra, in just 90 days, you too can fire Brahma weapons at your friends. Now it's fun for the entire family!



No, obviously we can't anymore. Which I suspect is the point. The "technology" they used to activate nuclear energy was more akin to psychic technology. We humans aren't psychic anymore, so we can't make resonance waves simply by chanting and focusing our chakra. That tech is lost. Our nukes are a pale shadow of what this stuff was, according to their own legends.

What is true is that it turns our nuclear dust can travel further than we thought. France tried to test-bomb the Sahara and now wind blew it back to France.

https://www.indiatimes.com/technology/science-and-future/france-tested-nukes-in-sahara-desert-that-radioactive-dust-is-polluting-france-now-535707.html

India to Middle East? No sweat.

Anyway, this is not the point. The point is that every few thousand years, we lose our memory of the past and try to blow ourselves up. Religion is about breaking the chain of violence and historical darkness (that is to say, amnesia caused by smashing everything and starting over) and learning love each other and live in the world in peace. Can we do this? Or are we doomed to another post-destruction dark age? Jesus didn't die for this purpose, but his way is a better shot at the future.

Anyway, returning somewhat to topic.

What Jesus taught wasn't morality.

The News taught morality, but they repeatedly got caught up in false worship, violent and bloody wars, and extremes in animal sacrifice, to the point where God complained that he HATED these sacrifices and watching his people still be rigid and cruel.

So this week, I've been reading The Book of God: the Bible as a Novel, and they have this line where Jesus is asked "Are you the Messiah?" and we see the context. John expects Jesus to be a fire and brimstone preacher. There is some of that ( mainly versus Pharisees) but no judgement against Samaritans and Gentiles. Jesus explains how he has fulfilled the mission to cure the lame and blind. Then he explains that the least of the Kingdom of God is greater, even though he is the greatest born of Jews. It occurred to me what Jesus means.

The Jewish morality isn't what is right for Christian people.

Anyway, returning somewhat to topic.

What Jesus taught wasn't morality.

The News taught morality, but they repeatedly got caught up in false worship, violent and bloody wars, and extremes in animal sacrifice, to the point where God complained that he HATED these sacrifices and watching his people still be rigid and cruel.

So this week, I've been reading The Book of God: the Bible as a Novel, and they have this line where Jesus is asked "Are you the Messiah?" and we see the context. John expects Jesus to be a fire and brimstone preacher. There is some of that ( mainly versus Pharisees) but no judgement against Samaritans and Gentiles. Jesus explains how he has fulfilled the mission to cure the lame and blind. Then he explains that the least of the Kingdom of God is greater, even though he is the greatest born of Jews. It occurred to me what Jesus means.

The Jewish morality isn't what is right for Christian people.

How is jewish morality different than Christian morality? Because one disciple wanted fire & brimstone? That's extremely myopic, close-minded of you.

To answer this, you need to read the gospel. Really read it, not just think you know that the Bible is about doing good, and that Jesus was a pushover who let people beat him up twice, and probably liberal.

I recommend two secondary sources instead.
1. The Book of God: the Bible as a Novel
2. The Chosen

Both are well versed in historical backdrop of the gospel, both have a good idea how Jesus was teaching something very distinct from what Jews were teaching, something distinct from what even many pastors SAY Jesus was teaching, and definitely different also from what the secular world taught.

Case in point, lepers. Let's start with that. Under Jewish law, Jewish rabbis were considered defiled if they came anywhere near a leper or demon possessed. They were not allowed in the temple. They were socially distanced (devout Jews would switch street sides). They were even kept out of town if the streets didn't allow for such things.

Until recently, no illness was considered worth distancing or isolation from others. You'd have a cold and ppl would bring you soup, and you'd get nursed to health.

Stuff like that. Extreme xenophobia and adherence to stupid rules (blending fabrics). It isn't the Jews as a people, secular people also had their own pet rules (or tell me about how people who ignore cha need of climate are evil). It was that Jews never broke away from law, but forgot things like Grace that were extended to their forefathers.

Basically, Judaism (and most of the moral religions) of this world create outcasts. Homosexuality is another example. A lot of the older religions would sideline lesbians as freakish. Modernism allows Him to have sex with John, who is bisexual and gives Karen and Jody AIDS too.

The core tenant of Christianity is hate sin, love the sinner. A drunk is gonna be a drunk (even when they repent, they might still enjoy responsible drinks), but what matters is when the alcohol made them sick or almost killed a kid. This is lowest point stuff where their thing wrecked their life. God does accept gays, but he doesn't want them dying of AIDS. Jesus doesn't cast blame for them dying of AIDS. But the sin is the effect of them getting hurt.

It's like if I stay up all night and am now fevered and dehydrated but still push myself. That's sin. But I as an overachiever shouldn't be labeled sinner. Christianity is the idea that sin hurts us, moralism thinks sin defines us.

Good post fren.

Stuff like that. Extreme xenophobia and adherence to stupid rules (blending fabrics).

Christians have a lot of xenophobia and adherence to stupid rules as well.

The New Testament plainly speaks of “Old Testament” commandments and teaches that they express God’s will for Christians. “So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good…for in my inner being I delight in God’s law” (Romans 7:12,22). Therefore, as Christians we should love and obey God’s commandments, not because doing so does save us, but because we are saved by grace through faith in God’s gift of love in Christ, who bore our sins on the tree of crucifixion. “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life” (Romans 5:10, KJV).

Now Paul says outright that God's law, the law of Moses, is holy. The commandments in the law are holy and righteous and good, Paul insists. The law was a great gift from God to the people of Israel. In the law, God revealed His heart and His standards for right living. Paul wants to make sure every reader knows that he is not condemning the law. Instead, Paul has pointed to the greatest benefit of God's beautiful, perfect law: It shows us that we can never keep the law, that instead we are sinners in need of saving.

It seems bizarre to be a Christian and only worship the NT, forsaking God, the father - You have to take on the whole shooting match of the bible (OT & NT) in it's entirety. Unless, of course, you want to make up your own form of religion.

You're confusing "Christians" with Christians.

 "Christians" beat people over the head with morality, because these people haven't distinguished their faith from Judaism. A lot of Trump voters are "Christians", though some real Christians are Trump voters... or Biden voters... or nonvoters.

And as long as you put up your own little xenophobic wall against this truth (you fun know what this world means, I'll bet), you haven't done any better.

You're confusing "Christians" with Christians.

 "Christians" beat people over the head with morality, because these people haven't distinguished their faith from Judaism. A lot of Trump voters are "Christians", though some real Christians are Trump voters... or Biden voters... or nonvoters.

And as long as you put up your own little xenophobic wall against this truth (you fun know what this world means, I'll bet), you haven't done any better.

You're actually the xenophobe pitting Jews against Christians. Who are you to know what the "truth" is? What makes you so special? You may know what works for you, but you're in no position to deem all for others.