Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #150 on: September 20, 2022, 04:20:57 AM »





Why would you use circular lines of latitude on a flat earth? Where the shortest distance to everything would be a straight line in 2D.  Not a great circle path.  Makes no sense.   You would use a straight line grid.


Quote

Why Are Great Circles the Shortest Flight Path?

https://gisgeography.com/great-circle-geodesic-line-shortest-flight-path/










Circular lines for a spherical earth projected on a 2D map makes sense. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 04:23:30 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #151 on: September 20, 2022, 04:53:54 AM »





Why would you use circular lines of latitude on a flat earth? Where the shortest distance to everything would be a straight line in 2D.  Not a great circle path.  Makes no sense.   You would use a straight line grid.


Because the Earth is flat disc. Because maybe if you bothered to understand my ideas rather than immediately putting them in a strawman dumpster I wouldn't first be annoyed with you, and then look at you with intense pity that you obviously never took geography.

Circular latitude lines happen in a flat disc. Navigating the  world happens in a flat disc, unless you manage to fly through the South Pole and out the other side. The model of Earth under flat Earth looks a bit like a darts board.

Typical circumnavigation is going around the east or west of the world, then telling us you've "proved" the Earth was a globe. This has been done by many explorers looking to discredit FE.
No, first of all, some of the round Earthers think you can fall off the Earth by going east or west (I'm not gonna look at more of your maps until you understand it right), and second, proving the Earth is round is not the same as proving it's a globe. X coordinate circumnavigation is not the same as Y coordinate circumnavigation. Unless you have both, you have a dartboard, not a globe.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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JackBlack

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #152 on: September 20, 2022, 05:22:22 AM »
Because the Earth is flat disc. Because maybe if you bothered to understand my ideas rather than immediately putting them in a strawman dumpster I wouldn't first be annoyed with you, and then look at you with intense pity that you obviously never took geography.
The one strawmanning here is you.
We understand your nonsense, and point out why it is wrong.

Even in your fantasy where Earth is flat, there is no reason to follow the latitude lines.
Why wouldn't planes fly a more direct, straight route?

Navigating the  world happens in a flat disc, unless you manage to fly through the South Pole and out the other side.
Again, so much shows that is pure BS.

There are plenty of ways you can demonstrate Earth is round (like a sphere) without going to the south pole.
Flights in the southern hemisphere, which take of heading partly south and arrive from partly south show that there is a south pole, not a southern ring.

Likewise, the fact that you can observe a south celestial pole, and keep that to one side while circumnavigating Earth shows there must be a southernmost point which you can circle. That shows your FE model is wrong. If you combine that with the same observation for the north pole, and the fact that these poles are always 180 degrees apart (which can be observed on the equator), you can show Earth must at least be round like a cylinder (and by that I mean that Earth is the curved surface of the cylinder, not the flat ends).

And by observing how the distance required to traverse a certain change in longitude varies as you move away from the equator, having that distance reduce as you go away from the equator, shows it must be curved in that direction as well.

And perhaps most importantly, we can't forget the observations directly related to the OP.
The apparent angle to the sun, and various things associated with it.
During the northern summer the sun rises north of east, and sets north of west.
During the southern summer, the sun rises south of east and sets south of west.
And during the equinox, the sun rises due east and sets due west.
And this includes for people who observe the sun pass to the north or south.

And if you observe the sun, regardless of time, it appears to be tracing a circle about an axis based upon your latitude, as if it was circling the axis of a round Earth.

This makes no sense on a FE.

Importantly, this also involves the sun appearing to rise and set, which also makes no sense on a FE.

Why does the sun appear to set? Why does it appear in a particular direction, rather than where it is?
Why doesn't it appear to shrink?
And if you want to keep to your projector dome BS, then why can we see it when it is above a point further away than the horizon?

Again, when are you planning on either addressing the issues that show the FE doesn't work, or being honest and admitting you can't?

No, first of all, some of the round Earthers think you can fall off the Earth by going east or west
Do you mean they think you can on a RE?
If so, they clearly don't understand a RE, just like you don't.

If you mean a FE, that fundamentally depends on what FE fantasy they are describing.
Unlike the RE which has effectively a single model, but which can be presented with varying degrees of accuracy and multiple different projections, which all ultimately agree; there are a multitude of FE models.

proving the Earth is round is not the same as proving it's a globe. X coordinate circumnavigation is not the same as Y coordinate circumnavigation. Unless you have both, you have a dartboard, not a globe.
If you only show one, you don't know which you have unless you measure the distances involved.
To show you have a dartboard, you need to show one is impossible.

But regardless, people have circumnavigated the globe going north/south.

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #153 on: September 20, 2022, 06:02:17 AM »
Oh the hypocrisy

Would be nice if you didnt misrepresent the model to begin with.

Note - everytime you say the model incorrectly - jack or stash or co will correct it.
You taking offense is your own insecurities.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #154 on: September 20, 2022, 06:19:54 AM »

Navigating the  world happens in a flat disc,


The way the sun rises east to west works on a globe.  And the way east and west works.




East and west and the way the sun would have to rise ona flat earth is meaningless, impossible for what is witnessed in reality.  Making using the sun and stars as a east to west guide useless.





Quote

How Do Flat-Earthers Explain the Equinox? We Investigated.

https://www.livescience.com/63648-flat-earth-explanation-for-the-equinox.html

Is that … possible?

This explanation has its problems. For starters, a sun circling 3,000 miles (5,000 km) above a flat Earth would never actually "set," even at the most southern latitudes. YouTube user Wolfie6020, a globe-Earth proponent, demonstrated this by building a scale model of the flat-Earth-style sun as it would be seen from Sydney on a vernal equinox. As shown in his video, the sun (actually a drone carrying a ping-pong ball) never dips below the horizon, even at its farthest point from the observer.

Moreover, during an equinox, the sun appears to rise due east and set due west everywhere on Earth except at the poles. For this to hold true on a flat Earth, where some cities are physically many times farther away from the sun than others, the sunlight would have to bend at hundreds of different angles simultaneously. That's the only way it could appear as if it was always coming from the east. YouTube user Flat Out, another prolific globe-Earth proponent, demonstrated the impossibility of this explanation using simple computer simulations in 2017.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #155 on: September 20, 2022, 06:48:45 AM »
Actually you don't point out where I'm wrong. You respond with more nonsense and call stuff BS.

Because the Earth is flat disc. Because maybe if you bothered to understand my ideas rather than immediately putting them in a strawman dumpster I wouldn't first be annoyed with you, and then look at you with intense pity that you obviously never took geography.
The one strawmanning here is you.
We understand your nonsense, and point out why it is wrong.

Even in your fantasy where Earth is flat, there is no reason to follow the latitude lines.
Why wouldn't planes fly a more direct, straight route?

They are following a direct route. Do you go south to get from Europe to Russia? Or do you go west? Likewise, south to go from Russia to Alaska? Or east? Data's maps consistently pointed south and called it west. Meaning instead of only 55 miles, we are talking about never toucjing the area you want to get to.

Navigating the  world happens in a flat disc, unless you manage to fly through the South Pole and out the other side.
Again, so much shows that is pure BS.

Pure BS. Like a broken record.

There are plenty of ways you can demonstrate Earth is round (like a sphere) without going to the south pole.
Flights in the southern hemisphere, which take of heading partly south and arrive from partly south show that there is a south pole, not a southern ring.

All these show is you going around in a circle. If you looked a the same processes from overhead, you'd realize their just sleight of hand. Looking at one map, they have proved something, but actually they have just skimmed around the edge.

Likewise, the fact that you can observe a south celestial pole, and keep that to one side while circumnavigating Earth shows there must be a southernmost point which you can circle. That shows your FE model is wrong. If you combine that with the same observation for the north pole, and the fact that these poles are always 180 degrees apart (which can be observed on the equator), you can show Earth must at least be round like a cylinder (and by that I mean that Earth is the curved surface of the cylinder, not the flat ends).

Poles by definition are at opposite sides. But it depends on the map or model whether you can declare them 180 degrees apart or not. Flat earth has North Pole at center, and South Pole at edge.

And by observing how the distance required to traverse a certain change in longitude varies as you move away from the equator, having that distance reduce as you go away from the equator, shows it must be curved in that direction as well.

And perhaps most importantly, we can't forget the observations directly related to the OP.
The apparent angle to the sun, and various things associated with it.
During the northern summer the sun rises north of east, and sets north of west.
During the southern summer, the sun rises south of east and sets south of west.
And during the equinox, the sun rises due east and sets due west.
And this includes for people who observe the sun pass to the north or south.

And if you observe the sun, regardless of time, it appears to be tracing a circle about an axis based upon your latitude, as if it was circling the axis of a round Earth.

This makes no sense on a FE.

Trust me, it does. The sun is circling across a domed space. I literally was swimming face up yesterday in my pool, and I watched the path of the sun and the sky, and I saw nothing odd about any of this.

Importantly, this also involves the sun appearing to rise and set, which also makes no sense on a FE.

Why does the sun appear to set? Why does it appear in a particular direction, rather than where it is?
Why doesn't it appear to shrink?
And if you want to keep to your projector dome BS, then why can we see it when it is above a point further away than the horizon?

I showed you a video specifically discussing why the sun appears not to shrink. Pure BS, you called it. I showed an active model of parabolic field of perception. You sciffed at that too, calling it Pure BS. Seems like alot of things are Pure BS to you. You ignore them and then ask about them later as though I haven't already addressed them.

Again, when are you planning on either addressing the issues that show the FE doesn't work, or being honest and admitting you can't?

No, first of all, some of the round Earthers think you can fall off the Earth by going east or west
Do you mean they think you can on a RE?
If so, they clearly don't understand a RE, just like you don't.

If you mean a FE, that fundamentally depends on what FE fantasy they are describing.
Unlike the RE which has effectively a single model, but which can be presented with varying degrees of accuracy and multiple different projections, which all ultimately agree; there are a multitude of FE models.

proving the Earth is round is not the same as proving it's a globe. X coordinate circumnavigation is not the same as Y coordinate circumnavigation. Unless you have both, you have a dartboard, not a globe.
If you only show one, you don't know which you have unless you measure the distances involved.
To show you have a dartboard, you need to show one is impossible.

But regardless, people have circumnavigated the globe going north/south.

Oh really? What people? Do they have a name? Did they really fly through the pole and out the other side or did they do  some loop thing where they fly across and then say that is proof?


Something like this? That's turning around at both poles.



This is flying through the North Pole, then relying on faulty ideas about how circling a surface accurately gives you a measurement of what you are seeing.


Oh also, this site has a video. They aren't on Youtube.

https://stoplookthink.com/no-north-south-circumnavigation/

They right off the bat show that the number of leagues we are told by some of these explorers is a complete guess (6300 leagues or 14,460 leagues?) and that the estimates we are given for south of the equator are actually lowballs and outright lies. They also talk about Ranulph Fiennes, who supposedly did 100,000 miles (or 25,000 or a third number) of travel but amazingly we have no pictures as evidence of this trip! This is enough proof for Guinness to give him a world record though. He also talks about alot of basketball suicides (i.e. running to the pole touching it, and coming right back, not going through the pole).
Then they talk about how if you go down to Antarctica, you have to sign a nondisclosure. So either Mr Porsche signed, and he is lying through his teeth about driving around ice, or he was sent to "Antarctica." :wink::wink:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 07:36:31 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #156 on: September 20, 2022, 07:06:07 AM »
ok
let's start with correcting some incorrectness then


this is a projection map.
it projects from the North pole the entire globe planet.
However, when looking at a ball, you can't see the back side (can you see the back side of a ball?).
the projection unfolds the backside out like a flower and then just fills in the wedges with colour.
Understand that?
the map is not accurate nor a representation of what you would see when looking down from space at the north pole.











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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #157 on: September 20, 2022, 07:25:43 AM »

Actually you don't point out where I'm wrong.


This is a true statement..
“Moreover, during an equinox, the sun appears to rise due east and set due west everywhere on Earth except at the poles. For this to hold true on a flat Earth, where some cities are physically many times farther away from the sun than others, the sunlight would have to bend at hundreds of different angles simultaneously. That's the only way it could appear as if it was always coming from the east. “

If you missed it “during an equinox, the sun appears to rise due east and set due west everywhere on Earth”

Now.  The below.


What direction does your traveling sun have to turn over the pacific over your flat stationary earth to rise from the east over Russia after traveling east to west over North America.

The answer is north……




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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #158 on: September 20, 2022, 08:40:51 AM »
ok
let's start with correcting some incorrectness then


this is a projection map.
it projects from the North pole the entire globe planet.
However, when looking at a ball, you can't see the back side (can you see the back side of a ball?).
the projection unfolds the backside out like a flower and then just fills in the wedges with colour.
Understand that?
the map is not accurate nor a representation of what you would see when looking down from space at the north pole.






Oh wow! From space! Funded by NASA. The N(ot) A(ctual) S(cience) A(dministration)? The same guys that push climate science on us to justify about 11 million "migrations due to climate change"? Huh, funny how climate change makes it so those many humans are trafficked to become exploited workers and sex slaves. So yeah, you're pushing globalist enslavement on us. You're defending injustice.

But sure, let's use globe models of Earth. Should we use this one? Or this one?


Funny how they don't match up. The size of the continents suddenly went down. How did that happen?

Or look, this doesn't look like a drawing with the stars perfectly surrounding the Earth while a cloud of blue mist makes everything look snazzy.


It not like someone didn't make layers of objects from a map in order to...








And cut out stuff...



And backshaded and...



Uhhhhh, what were we saying?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 08:43:22 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #159 on: September 20, 2022, 08:48:22 AM »

Oh wow! From space!

So your down to posting photographs we have no idea what website they came from and you providing no context.  And sarcasm?

Let us know when you can post a seamless coherent flat earth “theory” that isn’t a bunch of patch quilt ideas and magic that is false and contradictory. 

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #160 on: September 20, 2022, 09:40:27 AM »
Quote
wow from space!

yes from space as the model states.
take the model as if the model were true - does the model line up with the description of the model?

the current topic was flight paths or something something.
not the authenticity of photos.





maybe let's have some self reflection...





Because the Earth is flat disc. Because maybe if you bothered to understand my ideas rather than immediately putting them in a strawman dumpster I wouldn't first be annoyed with you, and then look at you with intense pity that you obviously never took geography.

Actually you don't point out where I'm wrong. You respond with more nonsense and call stuff BS.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 09:47:56 AM by Themightykabool »

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #161 on: September 20, 2022, 09:58:02 AM »
take your GIMP software

draw a circle 12,750,000 units wide.
draw a stick coming off the circle 2units tall.
draw a taller stick 500units tall at an arc distance of 50,000units away.
draw a straight line from the top of the 2unit stick, tangent to the circle, and hitting the 500unit stick.

let's have a look see

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Stash

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #162 on: September 20, 2022, 09:59:46 AM »
Circular latitude lines happen in a flat disc. Navigating the  world happens in a flat disc, unless you manage to fly through the South Pole and out the other side. The model of Earth under flat Earth looks a bit like a darts board.

That's weird, because everyone navigates using a globe earth coordinate system and globe earth tools.
Everyone must be lost all of the time.

You are wrong here just as you've been wrong everywhere else...

In a trip from California to China, you never at any point change latitude. Your map has you suddenly adjusting northwest after heading southwest because you don't understand basic directions.

I think we should trust the pilots and international ATC before we trust you. Clearly here you can see this flight following a great circle and changing latitudes from LAX to Shanghai:



And here you can see the flights actual radar pings for tracking. Notice latitudes in the 30's as well as the 60's.

You are wildly not in the the realm of reality.


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Stash

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #163 on: September 20, 2022, 10:10:57 AM »
Poles by definition are at opposite sides. But it depends on the map or model whether you can declare them 180 degrees apart or not. Flat earth has North Pole at center, and South Pole at edge.

So this is how you think South works?



How does that work from a navigation standpoint and why does no one use your "idea" yet still successfully navigate the entire globe?

Oh also, this site has a video. They aren't on Youtube.

https://stoplookthink.com/no-north-south-circumnavigation/

Oh poor Jeran. Same guy who accidentally showed a Globe Earth in the midst of a documentary about flat earth. Sad, really.


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Stash

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #164 on: September 20, 2022, 10:20:25 AM »
But sure, let's use globe models of Earth. Should we use this one? Or this one?


Funny how they don't match up. The size of the continents suddenly went down. How did that happen?

Funny how you have zero knowledge of optics...


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Mikey T.

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #165 on: September 20, 2022, 10:34:34 AM »
I guess that's a no on addressing universal down magic then.  I'll take it as an admittance of incorrectness. 
So since there is no universal down, then noone would be hanging like bats to the underside of the Earth.  Since you supposedly want to now complain about strawmanning and all.  Universal down is NOT something observed or considered as factual in the RE model

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JackBlack

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #166 on: September 20, 2022, 02:57:30 PM »
Actually you don't point out where I'm wrong. You respond with more nonsense and call stuff BS.
That which you are dismissing as "nonsense" is where I point out where you are wrong, including explaining why.

You not liking that is your problem.
If it was actually nonsense you would be able to address it, in a rational manner which doesn't involve you ignoring points.

They are following a direct route.
Which of these routes are more direct?

The curved black line you are suggesting, or the straight line?

Data's maps consistently pointed south and called it west.
No, they didn't. You repeatedly straw manned their position.

In one case they were pointing roughly west from the US, and continuing in a straight line.
In another, they showed a path with a stop in Hawaii.

Pure BS. Like a broken record.
So when will you be fixing your record and stop spouting the same refuted BS?

All these show is you going around in a circle. If you looked a the same processes from overhead, you'd realize their just sleight of hand. Looking at one map, they have proved something, but actually they have just skimmed around the edge.
Only if you are delusional and paranoid. It makes absolutely no sense for them to follow such a route, it would impossible for them to complete such a route in the given time, and the plane doesn't have the required range.
These flights only make sense on a round Earth. Not round like a circle, but round like a globe.

Poles by definition are at opposite sides. But it depends on the map or model whether you can declare them 180 degrees apart or not. Flat earth has North Pole at center, and South Pole at edge.
How many times will repeat this same delusional BS?

Poles, by definition, are points (or at best lines). They are not a ring.
In your fantasy you do not have a south pole.
In your fantasy, there is no southern point everyone in the southern hemisphere can see by looking south.
There is no southern point you can keep to one side and circle Earth.

If you wish to claim there is a south pole in your fantasy, then clearly mark the single location (i.e. a point) on your map where this south pole allegedly is.

As for being 180 degrees apart, that doesn't depend on the model. That depends on observations. And we can quite clearly observe the north and south celestial poles to be 180 degrees apart. Even better, this doesn't just work in 2D, it works in 3D.
The north celestial pole is observed due north, at an angle of elevation equal to your latitude (measured with north being positive).
The south celestial pole is observed due south, at an angle of elevation equal to your latitude (measured with south being positive).
Unless you are close to the equator you can't directly observe both, but you can record a time lapse of the sky and observe the stars appearing to circle 2 points.

The time the model comes into it is in checking if the model matches reality.
If the model does not have 2 points which will always be observed 180 degrees apart from any location on Earth, it fails to match reality.
And there is literally no way for a flat surface to have that property. It requires 2 lines to intersect twice after a finite distance.

Trust me, it does. The sun is circling across a domed space. I literally was swimming face up yesterday in my pool, and I watched the path of the sun and the sky, and I saw nothing odd about any of this.
Why should I trust you when you are so happy to spout so much nonsense?
If it actually made sense, you would be able to explain it and address what should be trivial issues.
Instead you need to repeatedly flee from it, now coming up with crap about just trusting you.

If I need to trust you for it, that means it doesn't make sense, that you can't explain it, and just want it to go away.

So if you think it makes sense, EXPLAIN IT.
Tell us how the observed direction to the sun does not match the suns expected location on your fantasy Earth.

I showed you a video specifically discussing why the sun appears not to shrink. Pure BS, you called it. I showed an active model of parabolic field of perception. You sciffed at that too, calling it Pure BS. Seems like alot of things are Pure BS to you. You ignore them and then ask about them later as though I haven't already addressed them.
You say that as if all I did was call it pure BS.
I explained the problems with it.

Your BS regarding the sun not shrinking needs to address why this happens just for the sun, rather than all other objects, which it makes no attempt to do so.
Your magic perception BS fails for the reasons I asked about there.

For this magic perception parabola to work it needs to be limited to the horizon.
This puts the sun well out of range.
Even if you magically projected the sun straight down until it hit this magic parabola or perception, then it would only give a very small area any daylight.

So no, I didn't just dismiss it as BS, and I didn't ignore it, I explained why it was BS, and you then fled from it because you can't actually address the issues. Instead you can just come up with vague excuses which will appease FEers who desperately want it to work, but will fall apart after even a tiny bit of thought goes into examining it.

So will you actually address them, or continue to flee from them as you know these issues destroy your fantasy?

Why does the sun appear to set? Why does it appear in a particular direction, rather than where it is?
Why doesn't it appear to shrink (while other objects do)?
And if you want to keep to your projector dome BS, then why can we see it when it is above a point further away than the horizon?

Oh really? What people? Do they have a name? Did they really fly through the pole and out the other side or did they do  some loop thing where they fly across and then say that is proof?
You mean did they travel a relatively short distance across Antarctica, or did they travel such an incredibly long distance around a ridiculous southern rim, and somehow not figure it out, even though it would be the longest part of their journey?

That is a key thing which destroys that idea of yours. The sheer size of the southern rim in your fantasy would make such a journey take so long it isn't funny.

Here is a list for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circumnavigations
It includes ones that go via the north and south pole.

Oh also, this site has a video. They aren't on Youtube.
And why should I waste my time watching such a crappy video which is based upon wilful ignorance and/or dishonesty?

If you think it is worthwhile, why don't you try to make the case, including presenting evidence?

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JackBlack

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #167 on: September 20, 2022, 03:06:32 PM »
But sure, let's use globe models of Earth. Should we use this one? Or this one?
Funny how they don't match up. The size of the continents suddenly went down. How did that happen?
And of course, jumping straight on the same old pathetic refuted FE BS, which shows a complete lack of understanding of so many basic principles.

But hey it does seem new in one part, you are trying to compare Africa to North America.
Why would you expect these 2 sides to match up?
If someone takes a picture of a dice from 2 sides, do you then claim those pictures don't match up because they show different numbers?
Do you truly fail to comprehend basic 3D geometry?

But ignoring that, and assuming you actually wanted to compare photos showing North America only, as is commonly done by FEers, then if you are going to go down that path of dishonesty or wilful ignorance, you may as well grab a camera, point it straight down beneath you (when you are in North America) and take a picture, and claim that doesn't match either.

Or, you could try being honest and intelligent and show some of this education you claim to have experienced.
In doing so, you would accurately state that the distance you are from a ball will determine how much of the ball you can see.
If you are incredibly close to a ball, say standing 2 m away from the surface of a 6371 km radius ball, you will only be able to see a circle of roughly 5 km radius on the surface.
This could also be expressed in terms of angles.
Where the angle subtended at the centre of such a ball will be 2*acos(r/(r+d)).

So when you are very close, you see only a small portion of it.
But when you are far away, you see a much larger portion.

This means if you are close, you can see a relatively small object on the surface taking up the majority of the view, but then as you move further away, you can see more of the ball and that small object appears to take up less of the surface.

So this means the apparent size of the continent relative to the region of Earth you can see will vary depending on distance. The further you are, the smaller it appears.

So just what part doesn't match?

Or look, this doesn't look like a drawing
You mean this drawing with no apparent connection to NASA?

Again, showing you can easily produce a crappy fake doesn't magically mean everything is fake.
If you want to go down that path of claiming everything is fake, then you being here is entirely pointless as you will never accept anything that shows you are wrong.

Yet again, you cannot show anything at all wrong with the globe model, nor can you defend your fantasy.
Instead you can just spout pure nonsense to pretend your fantasy works and pretend the globe doesn't.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #168 on: September 21, 2022, 01:09:34 AM »

South of San Francisco? South Pole. South of Chile? South Pole? South of Israel? South Pole. South of Australia? South Pole


One of my favorite arguments seen time from time.

Now.  How can individuals in South America, Africa, Australia all see the constellation the southern cross by looking south.  With two of the three locations able to see the southern cross at the same time?

Possible on a Globe.


Not possible on your flat earth delusion


Cited from



Quote
How to Navigate the Ocean Using Stars

https://www.formulaboats.com/blog/navigate-using-stars/

Crux: Commonly called the Southern Cross, Crux is the most important constellation for navigating in the Southern Hemisphere, as it can be used to find due south. Crux contains five stars that form a slightly irregular cross and is the smallest constellation in the sky. The Southern Cross is visible from latitudes of about 27 degrees north and farther south.



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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #169 on: September 21, 2022, 07:36:20 AM »
Without science is right.

Science is the study of what it is possible to know. This is the etymology of the word. Science deals in the falsifiable. However, what you have just done is basically give me something I have no way of proving, short of spending money I don't have in gas/planes and passports to look at a sky that you say is there. That is, despite going to the southern hemisphere, I missed my chance to really look out at the night sky. Most nights, we were inside by dusk (what with lions and such). The one time I would have been able to see the stars, I had food poisoning from bloody meat and some sort of nasty alcohol.
It turns out only about 800 million people live south of the equator (this when 7.97 billion live on Earth, that's 7.17 billion who aren't able to see southern constellations). It's at the low part of even South America and Africa, and alot of the rest live on small islands. Many of these lack running water, much less internet. This is a bit like getting the Amish to tell someone in India something.

Oh sure, you can show me a picture of the southern hemisphere. But even before the age of photoshop, movies were doing tricks of images (having a "car" in a "moving background" goes back to at least the Great Train Robbery, and the Voyage to the Moon has people visiting a lunar set). How am I to know what you say is true?

Because I can't know that there even is a different southern sky, I can't prove or disprove anything, because that's not science. I have no way of knowing. You're right, you probably would destroy me, because I'd be making up stuff. I'm leaving it to this guy.




(The guy says they rotate, not the Earth, and it's like being in a two domed planetarium, with an inner dome and an outer dome, this is similar to what I would have theorized, but it's pretty rough since I never saw the night sky south of the equator)




(Interesting how my parabola of perceptionTM is still a thing)


What I can say is that the night sky in the northern hemisphere would a lot different in a true globe. So let me ask you this. Why can't you see a different sky in the eastern and western hemisphere? There's basically a giant hill in the path of stargazing under your model. Even accounting for rotating, you have all these other factors like tilt and precession and eccentricity (cuz no Occam's Razor means we keep inventing things to rationalize wrong ideas). It shouldn't be the same sky all through the RE. Not unless it is actually coin-shaped (and then suddenly it's not, during the day).
And more importantly, if the Earth really orbited the sun, how can we have a star chart at all? Because in addition to orbiting the sun, this whole system is spiraling the galaxy. It would wind up being a seasonal and yearly and century thing, with no reliability on what you could see at all. From year to year, you would pass within sight of any number of stars, based on timing of where the Earth rotated during night hours, how distant it is from this star or that. It would be an unchartable mess.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 07:49:07 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #170 on: September 21, 2022, 08:29:32 AM »

Again, showing you can easily produce a crappy fake doesn't magically mean everything is fake.
If you want to go down that path of claiming everything is fake, then you being here is entirely pointless as you will never accept anything that shows you are wrong.

Actually, it does. I have no degree in computer drafting, I'm an amateur digital editor. This sort of fraud took roughly 15 minutes to put together, and most of that was creating the shading layer. Here, we'll add a fake sun, somewhere in the distance.



But there's no sun here, you say. Never you worry, we can fix that.

Circle crop.



What's that? Not bright enough? Fine, I'll add a supernova effect.



What is it you want? You want the moon? Just say the word and I'll throw a lasso around it and pull it down.




If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #171 on: September 21, 2022, 08:37:00 AM »
what happened to all the whining about not being taken serious?
and of us being "mean" to you?

we moved on to just trolling now?


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Mikey T.

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #172 on: September 21, 2022, 10:52:25 AM »

Again, showing you can easily produce a crappy fake doesn't magically mean everything is fake.
If you want to go down that path of claiming everything is fake, then you being here is entirely pointless as you will never accept anything that shows you are wrong.

Actually, it does. I have no degree in computer drafting, I'm an amateur digital editor. This sort of fraud took roughly 15 minutes to put together, and most of that was creating the shading layer. Here, we'll add a fake sun, somewhere in the distance.



But there's no sun here, you say. Never you worry, we can fix that.

Circle crop.



What's that? Not bright enough? Fine, I'll add a supernova effect.



What is it you want? You want the moon? Just say the word and I'll throw a lasso around it and pull it down.




Yep, looks like an idiot played with MS Paint too.  Good for you.

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Stash

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #173 on: September 21, 2022, 11:39:44 AM »
It turns out only about 800 million people live south of the equator (this when 7.97 billion live on Earth, that's 7.17 billion who aren't able to see southern constellations). It's at the low part of even South America and Africa, and alot of the rest live on small islands. Many of these lack running water, much less internet. This is a bit like getting the Amish to tell someone in India something.

This has got to land somewhere in the the top 5 of dumbest, most ignorant arguments ever. This in particular, "...getting the Amish to tell someone in India something." It doesn't even work as an analogy.

Southern Hemisphere = 12% of Globe population
Global Amish population is 0.02% of India's population

Oh wait, I can't make up my mind as to what is specifically the dumbest. It's a toss up really. But "Many of these lack running water, much less internet," is definitely a contender.

As of 2021, total number of Southern Hemisphere web access users: Approx. 515,943,342

Pro-tip: Instead of just constantly making things up, learn how to peddle in facts.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #174 on: September 21, 2022, 03:36:58 PM »
It turns out only about 800 million people live south of the equator (this when 7.97 billion live on Earth, that's 7.17 billion who aren't able to see southern constellations). It's at the low part of even South America and Africa, and alot of the rest live on small islands. Many of these lack running water, much less internet. This is a bit like getting the Amish to tell someone in India something.

This has got to land somewhere in the the top 5 of dumbest, most ignorant arguments ever. This in particular, "...getting the Amish to tell someone in India something." It doesn't even work as an analogy.

Southern Hemisphere = 12% of Globe population
Global Amish population is 0.02% of India's population

Oh wait, I can't make up my mind as to what is specifically the dumbest. It's a toss up really. But "Many of these lack running water, much less internet," is definitely a contender.

As of 2021, total number of Southern Hemisphere web access users: Approx. 515,943,342

Pro-tip: Instead of just constantly making things up, learn how to peddle in facts.

The point being that the following is a list of countries below the equator.

1   Angola
2   Argentina
3   Australia
4   Bolivia
5   Botswana
6   Burundi
7   Chile
8   Comoros
9   East Timor
10   Eswatini
11   Fiji
12   Lesotho
13   Madagascar
14   Malawi
15   Mauritius
16   Mozambique
17   Nauru
18   New Zealand
19   Papua New Guinea
20   Paraguay
21   Peru
22   Rwanda
23   Samoa
24   Seychelles
25   Solomon Islands
26   South Africa
27   Tanzania
28   Tuvalu
29   Uruguay
30   Vanuatu
31   Zambia
32   Zimbabwe

And alot of Oceanic islands that can't even be considered countries. For example, I learned about Pitcairn in school. Population? Currently 47. A majority of these places (not all, mind you) are dismally poor and lack electricity and modern conveniences. Feel free to correct me, by all means. I think South Africa (at least around Cape Town), Australia (though it has massive wild areas), maybe Argentina, Bolivia, and New Zealand are fairly civilized. Madagascar is a rainforest where people literally climb enormous heights to harvest vanilla.

Rwanda is a basketcase that had an ethnic cleansing bloodbath where the UN pretended to help.

But somehow you equated the Amish with population percent? No, I was referring to the ability to contact the rest of the world! I chose the Amish for a reason. They are voluntarily non-technological.

Here's an urbanism map.


As you can pretty clearly see, many countries (though less of South America than I thought) south of the equator are deeply rural. This, in addition to low population means that we basically don't have their information. We have reports of the constellations and drawings and pictures, but this isn't verified by most of the world.

Quote
As of 2021, total number of Southern Hemisphere web access users: Approx. 515,943,342

You don't understand statistics. 284,056,658/800,000,000

Roughly 3/8 or 37.5% of all people living in the southern hemisphere are without such things. This lowers the 12% to closer to 8%. Of these, how many are likely to be involved in astronomy? Even less. How many are going to  present accurate pictures for the rest of us involving the entire night sky.
No? Then the night sky is a mockup made by people in the northern hemisphere. And you can't prove otherwise.

Also, learn the difference between a plurality and a majority. A plurality means that most of the people with internet live in a few megabig cities. Vast stretches of land, people have nothing. This is what I observed in South Africa, large areas were jungle, somewhat large were slum villages, and a few modern towns/cities make up for the rest. Which btw, haven't you ever heard of light pollution? That is, in particularly urban areas, you can't even see the stars. So what we are really talking about is what I more or less saw, a tremendous gap between haves and have nots, with very few areas in between.

Suppose one area that that very few people visit claims to have unicorns. Would you believe this nonsense? After all, it's a single area with a small population confirming this information (and it sounds outlandish). Now here's the thing. That area was the North Pole. For years we were told that narwhals were actually unicorns gracefully trotting over the ice. Look, look, here's proof.


See, now everyone has proof of unicorns. Because a tiny group of people in an area nobody explores said so!

Hell, today, we can't prove either way. Maybe narwhals are doctored and unicorns are the ones that are real. The point being that aside from fishing and oil companies, nobody goes out of their way to explore either pole on foot. Likewise, neither is there a statistically relevant population of people living in the southern hemisphere.

But beyond that, none of you actually watched the video.
 


I gave my honest impression that I dunno, but this guy seems to know, and his explanation makes sense to me.

So let's move on. Nvm all that, answer this question instead.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 04:21:59 PM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

*

Stash

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #175 on: September 21, 2022, 04:37:08 PM »
It turns out only about 800 million people live south of the equator (this when 7.97 billion live on Earth, that's 7.17 billion who aren't able to see southern constellations). It's at the low part of even South America and Africa, and alot of the rest live on small islands. Many of these lack running water, much less internet. This is a bit like getting the Amish to tell someone in India something.

This has got to land somewhere in the the top 5 of dumbest, most ignorant arguments ever. This in particular, "...getting the Amish to tell someone in India something." It doesn't even work as an analogy.

Southern Hemisphere = 12% of Globe population
Global Amish population is 0.02% of India's population

Oh wait, I can't make up my mind as to what is specifically the dumbest. It's a toss up really. But "Many of these lack running water, much less internet," is definitely a contender.

As of 2021, total number of Southern Hemisphere web access users: Approx. 515,943,342

Pro-tip: Instead of just constantly making things up, learn how to peddle in facts.

The point being that the following is a list of countries below the equator.

1   Angola
2   Argentina
3   Australia
4   Bolivia
5   Botswana
6   Burundi

Where's Brazil?

But somehow you equated the Amish with population percent? No, I was referring to the ability to contact the rest of the world! I chose the Amish for a reason. They are voluntarily non-technological.

So the 500,000,000 million people in the Southern Hemisphere with internet access are unable to contact the rest of the world and are voluntarily non-technological?

Quote
As of 2021, total number of Southern Hemisphere web access users: Approx. 515,943,342

You don't understand statistics. 284,056,658/800,000,000

Where did you get: 284,056,658?

Suppose one area that that very few people visit claims to have unicorns.

800,000,000 is "very few people"?

Likewise, neither is there a statistically relevant population of people living in the southern hemisphere.

800,000,000 isn't statistically relevant? And what are you basing statistical relevance on?


But beyond that, none of you actually watched the video.

Because it's from the known crackpot and anti-semite, Eric Dubay. And I have seen the video before.

Right off the bat, he can't even address what was recently brought up to you that you can't address: How can someone looking at the Crux from the tip of South America be looking in a completely different direction from a person in S.Africa looking at the Crux and a person in New Zealand looking at the Crux?

You realize seafarers have been using the Crux forever to navigate just as we in the Northern Hemisphere rely on Polaris.

So let's move on. Nvm all that, answer this question instead.

Parallax, distance, & 100's of millions of years.

They do move. The brightest star, we see with the naked eye in the night sky, Sirius, moves about the length of the moon in the sky southward every 2000 years.

If I'm standing 1 meter away from you and I walk 1 meter perpendicular to you, the angle between me at my starting position and you compared to the angle with me at my ending position would be quite large.
But if I stood 1 kilometer away from you and did the same, the angle would be much much smaller even though I've walked the same distance.
This applies to the movement of the earth and the stars in the constellation and stars in the constellation closer to us would move more in the sky (relative to us) than stars further away.


As far as the Solar System goes: The orbital speed around the milky way is 514,000 mph, 230 km/s or as one revolution per 225 million years.

And lastly, you can find thousands of amateur and pro images of the Crux with a simple Google search. So the ridiculous notion that the Crux is a Northern Hemisphere fake construct is, well, idiocy.

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JackBlack

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #176 on: September 21, 2022, 04:40:45 PM »
Science deals in the falsifiable. However, what you have just done is basically give me something I have no way of proving, short of spending money I don't have in gas/planes and passports to look at a sky that you say is there.
Firstly, falsifiability is about disproving, not proving.
But more importantly, you not being able to do something without spending a lot of money doesn't mean it isn't falsifiable.

Plenty of people have lived or visited the southern hemisphere and made these observations.

If you want to reject so many observations because you can't verify them, then that just means you are choosing to be wilfully ignorant of reality.
This means you have nothing to show Earth isn't round.

You're right, you probably would destroy me, because I'd be making up stuff. I'm leaving it to this guy.
You mean a known conman who is quite happy to spout whatever lies they can to try and pretend a FE works, while ignoring massive issues?

And the first comment that appears on the video is great:
Quote
How does this explain how someone in Chile and someone in Australia can both look south and see the same thing  at the same time since on a flat earth their “souths” are pointing in completely opposite directions?

So how about instead of just linking to a useless video, tell us what timestamp in that video it explains how everyone looking due south sees the same point due south.

(Interesting how my parabola of perceptionTM is still a thing)
It's not a real thing. It is a pathetic excuse made by FEers to pretend their model works, but it still fails entirely.

What I can say is that the night sky in the northern hemisphere would a lot different in a true globe.
You can say all sorts of BS, that doesn't make it true.
You already tried this BS in another thread and had it refuted.
The sky we observe in reality matches that expected for a globe.
The sky we observe in reality does not match that observed for a FE.

And yet again, due to your complete inability to defend your delusional model, you just resort to lying about the RE.
Just like your high priest Eric Dubay, who in a video to try and describe how the southern stars work, instead of explaining how the southern stars work he attacks the RE model.

So let me ask you this. Why can't you see a different sky in the eastern and western hemisphere?
What was wrong with the first time it was answered?
Why do you insist on bringing up the same refuted BS to try and pretend there is a problem with a RE, when you have already been provided with an explanation that shows there is no problem.

Earth is not magically fixed in place. It rotates.

This means that if you pick a given latitude, then everyone at that latitude will see roughly the same sky over the course of a sidereal day, with the main things that appear different being those close to Earth, i.e. the moon and sun and planets.

For example, if you consider someone in New York, watching the night sky, roughly 12 hours later, someone in northern China (near Bayannur) will be seeing the same night sky.

If you want to boldly claim that it should be different, you need to explain why, including accounting for the rotation.

The only difference in the sky is that they can see different parts at different time, with everyone seeing just over a hemisphere of the sky (assuming no mountains).
This also explains why it would be night in New York and day in Bayannur (depending on the time of year).

Even accounting for rotating, you have all these other factors like tilt and precession and eccentricity
You mean things which are observed?
Axial tilt accounts for the seasons quite well.
Eccentricity accounts for why the time between equinoxes is different.
The effect of both can be observed through the analemma.

Precession takes a lot more time, but explains why the north pole star has changed over time.
You have no chance of observing that yourself given the relatively short human life span compared to the time it takes to complete a full precession.
But by looking at historical documents we can tell that the north pole star has changed.

And more importantly, if the Earth really orbited the sun, how can we have a star chart at all?
Distance.
Yet again this is an example of FEer dishonesty, spouting pure nonsense to make those desperate to think there is a problem with the RE feel justified, while not thinking about it at all.


In the RE model, excluding the sun, the closest star is roughly 4 light years away. That is roughly 38 Pm. (38 trillion km).
That is so far it isn't funny.
And here you are claiming that moving a mere 300 Gm (300 million km) should cause a massive change in how the constellations appear.
That is a change of roughly 1 part in 125 000.
To get an idea of just what that is like, assuming your eyes are 5 cm apart, then that is equivalent to looking at an object over 6 km away, first through your left eye, and then through your right eye.
You aren't going to see any significant difference. You need highly accurate measuring devices to measure that.

Yet you do whatever you can to reject that such a thing should occur in your FE fantasy, and want to pretend it should be fine for the constellations to look exactly the same.
This includes constellations that can be observed near the celestial equator, and thus observed all over Earth, including by people roughly 20 000 km apart at the same time.
Yet FEers commonly claim that the sky is a mere 5000 km above us. That is a chance in distance of 1 part in 0.25

This shows the extreme dishonesty and double standard of FEers.

So for FEers, a change in position of 4 times the distance to the object should cause no apparent change.
But a much smaller relative change of 1 part in 125 000 should now magically cause a change?

If you think this is an issue for the RE, it is a massive problem for the FE (At least 500 000 times as large a problem), and would completely destroy the FE model (as it does).

For a RE, that change in apparent position of the star is tiny.
This is known as stellar parallax. It is measured, and can be used to calculate the distance to "nearby" stars, e.g. stars in our own galaxy.
But even for the closest star (excluding sol), it is less than 1 arc second.

The only star that there is a significant affect on is Sol, and the effect on it can be observed with the naked eye, as shown by different stars being visible at night at different times of the year.

this whole system is spiraling the galaxy.
No it isn't.
It is orbiting the galactic centre in a more up and down motion. The "spiral" is really a helix, and it is describing the path of Earth through the galaxy.

It would wind up being a seasonal and yearly and century thing
Why?
You have pulled periods out of no where.
Firstly, there are yearly variations in the stars we can see at night, as Earth is pointing in a different direction at night throughout the year.
But the cycle for the orbit of the sun is not 1 year, or a century, it is around 200 million years.
And yes, that will actually be a cycle, but it will take 200 million years to complete.
You have no chance at all of seeing all that by yourself, and will need to rely upon the historical record.

But the other important thing to note is that the other stars are moving as well.


Again, showing you can easily produce a crappy fake doesn't magically mean everything is fake.
If you want to go down that path of claiming everything is fake, then you being here is entirely pointless as you will never accept anything that shows you are wrong.
Actually, it does.
No, it doesn't.
You being able to produce a fake does not mean everything is a fake.
That is like saying because a dog can pee on the ground, any time the ground is wet, it is because a dog peed on it.
It is pure nonsense.

The best you could do is show it could be a fake, not that it is fake.

And like I said, if you are doing that, then you asking anyone for evidence is pointless, as you will just dismiss it as fake if it shows you are wrong.

Here's an urbanism map.
Urbanisation is not the same as technological progress.
It is possible for rural societies to have lots of technology.
It is possible for urban societies to have very little technology.

This, in addition to low population means that we basically don't have their information. We have reports of the constellations and drawings and pictures, but this isn't verified by most of the world.
No, that is just yet another pathetic excuse by FEers to dismiss evidence that shows they are wrong.

Of these, how many are likely to be involved in astronomy? Even less. How many are going to  present accurate pictures for the rest of us involving the entire night sky.
And how many do you actually need to get the data? Very few, not even a thousand.
And you can't forget about people visiting there.

For example, a long time ago, James Cook went sailing to the south to observe the transit of Venus.
He didn't live in the southern hemisphere, he just went on a voyage to observe the sky from a point in the southern hemisphere.

So let's move on. Nvm all that, answer this question instead.
Or, how about you address the issues with the OP or otherwise try to defend your FE fantasy or admit you have absolutely no basis for thinking Earth is flat?

Here they are again:
Why does the sun appear to set? Why does it appear in a particular direction, rather than where it is?
Why doesn't it appear to shrink (while other objects do)?
And if you want to keep to your projector dome BS, then why can we see it when it is above a point further away than the horizon?

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #177 on: September 21, 2022, 08:47:14 PM »
How the hell are you (bulb) using a mercator projection map?

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #178 on: September 22, 2022, 12:36:25 AM »

Where's Brazil?

This was a list of 32 countries that are under the equator. It didn't count those that kinda crossed the equator by a few miles.

But somehow you equated the Amish with population percent? No, I was referring to the ability to contact the rest of the world! I chose the Amish for a reason. They are voluntarily non-technological.

So the 500,000,000 million people in the Southern Hemisphere with internet access are unable to contact the rest of the world and are voluntarily non-technological?

God, you're dense. The Amish are voluntarily non-technological. The southern hemisphere is cut off from the northern hemisphere by thousands of miles, and often have infrastructure problems. It's an analogy not a 1:1 comparison.

500 million people are sending cat pictures. Not looking at stars. Remember, the more urban you get, the less the stars are visible.
https://www.sciencebuddies.org/stem-activities/constellations-light-pollution
Africa, from what I'd seen, was grossly inequitable. You had fast food joints and big city. You also had wreckage and people drinking Coke in the street. And I imagine some of this 500 million is "you live in a city, so you can go to a library (assuming you have a permanent address)" not actual home ownership and further wealth involved to personally have a net hookup. We legit as people visiting South Africa got to watch little kids begging for sandwiches.

All of this is South Africa, where I visited. Quite a bit different from area to area. Unlike the Amish, they are involuntarily non-technological in much of the country. And much of the southern hemisphere. My point. Built up cities? Yeah they have some. But their countryside is a real wreck. In the US, even in rural areas, people can get internet. Not necessarily here.





Quote
As of 2021, total number of Southern Hemisphere web access users: Approx. 515,943,342

You don't understand statistics. 284,056,658/800,000,000

Where did you get: 284,056,658?

Someone doesn't know how to subtract. On top of not understanding directions, you can't do basic math?
If 515,943,342 have internet, what about the ones that don't?


800,000,000 is "very few people"?

The US has 300 million people. The US cares about the US, but from my experience, everyone else looks down on the US. For an entire hemisphere to have the population of roughly three versions of the US is pathetic. Remember, Africa is one of the most populated areas on Earth, yet they cannot seem to scrape together even a billion between the southern hemisphere including three continents. Yes, it damned well is insignificant.  Btw, nearly the population of the US in the southern hemisphere is without any internet (and probably without electricity in some cases). Now, I like the Amish okay, we live near them. They're good folk. But they're not gonna be telling India about what Joe Biden is like for their community.

800,000,000 isn't statistically relevant? And what are you basing statistical relevance on?



I'm basing it on the fact that despite covering this landmass, they have neither population nor technology. Oh sure, you focus on the 5/8 that have power, running water, and internet. All of these people live in big cities. But the cities aren't that big geographically, and outside the cities, the slums I showed are outright civilized. Much of Africa is forest or plains.





Here's the takeaway:
1. People in the position to see stars are mostly not able (without a satellite hookup, and alot of patching through) to broadcast about it.
2. And those who can broadcast often can't even see the stars (light pollution is real).




But beyond that, none of you actually watched the video.

Because it's from the known crackpot and anti-semite, Eric Dubay. And I have seen the video before.

Right off the bat, he can't even address what was recently brought up to you that you can't address: How can someone looking at the Crux from the tip of South America be looking in a completely different direction from a person in S.Africa looking at the Crux and a person in New Zealand looking at the Crux?

You realize seafarers have been using the Crux forever to navigate just as we in the Northern Hemisphere rely on Polaris.

Having never seen Crux before, I cannot answer that. As I told you already. Here's what I can answer. There is no way in hell that the Earth moves, the sun moves, and all of these spiral around the galaxy, yet we are able to see all these constellations to be seen year after year after year, and for all this time, we have perfect star maps. 

So let's move on. Nvm all that, answer this question instead.

Parallax, distance, & 100's of millions of years.

Pure BS. So in order for us not to move on past groups of stars, they would have to trail along with us. 450,000 mph (btw, light speed is 6,70,200,000 mph). All these stars are trailing around Earth and the solar system, just so we can continue to see them and make handy little spherical maps of the stars too. At what point will you employ Occam's Razor full stop and say "Sidereal days, orbiting, rotating, precession, tilt, also circling the galaxy, with a large posse of stars moving nearby at all times, which along with Polaris, are somehow perfectly in position to be seen at all times. Then you have gravity magically suspend all of the southern hemisphere's land and water upside-down since there is no way the round Earth model gives up water facing sunny-side-up in the south. Bullshit. BULL SHIT! Do you wanna add some elephants dancing underneath? Hey, I have a unicorn horn to sell you too." Now, I don't necessarily have the way Earth looks 100% figured out, but I can for damned sure smell horseshit, having lived next to this sort of farm.

Oh and speaking of BS? How exactly do we have Mars rovers?

Quote
How long would it take a spacecraft to travel one light-year?

Well, this is an impossible question without knowing how fast your craft goes, so I will provide answers for various selected speeds:

    At lightspeed: one year
    At half of lightspeed: two years
    At the speed of lightning (return stroke): ~3 years
    At the speed Breakthrough Starshot ships claim they will travel: ~5 years
    At the speed of the fastest recorded manmade object ever (Helios 2, swinging by the sun): ~4269 years
4269 years to travel one light year. Mars is roughly 4 light years away. So ummm, yeah what exactly are we looking at pictures of, when we say we have pictures of rovers on Mars? And what about these people sent to visit Mars in 2020? The four SpaceX passengers? Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.





We see clips of space travel, and so we think what we see is real. But even if I were to decide this number was wrong and divide it by 365, it would still require 44 years for a one way trip to Mars. That's not feasible for passengers. They would never make the trip back, and probably never make it there if they were adults.



« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 12:58:28 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #179 on: September 22, 2022, 03:24:05 AM »
To author=bulmabriefs144 link=topic=90730.msg2369811#


So.   What was your explanation how people in Africa, South American, and Australia can look south and two of the three can see the Southern Cross at the same time.  And the Southern Cross is an aid in navigation and finding the single point southern celestial pole above Antarctica?  And discrediting that Antarctica is an ice wall around the known world, but showing Antarctica is the most southern continent that can be sailed around weather permitting. 

Sad to see a flat earther have a mental breakdown and have to turn to spewing page after page of delusion to try to push the demonstrable proof the earth is spherical into the background.