Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry

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Unconvinced

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Actually, he (you?) was talking about the optics of seeing a boat and how only with curvature of the earth would the be any obstruction, and how flat Earthers only look at the ground. This mechanism of perception is identical if you want to see the sunset. You can see it a better for longer at a mountaintop with no obstruction. Meanwhile, the person at a valley gets on the view of it setting into a mountain. Why is that? Because your zone of perception (your "sphere") moves with you.

No, it’s because there’s a mountain in the way.

Sometimes the simple answers really are the best.

Golly, you're so smart!

It's too bad you didn't both to actually examine the picture. The first stickfigure is in front of a mountain, the second stickfigure is on top of the mountain.

Where’s the sun in that that picture?

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It is only if I talked about someone behind the mountain that this would be relevant. You kinda ignored the rest of the idea to focus on the last part of the mountain being in the way when you face the sunset.

I’m going by what you said that the person in the valley sees the sun “setting into a mountain”.   How does someone see the sun set into a mountain if the mountain is behind them?

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What way should the curve be?

Oh, I dunno. We should al be made to slope a portion of the Earth's circumference divided by the amount of curvature there should be in that number of feet, causing us to perpetually draw dlightly leaning triangles and measure for decimal points of curve. Doesn't that sound fun? Or wait, neither Pythagoras nor any other mathematician advised this added into the curriculum. Something about have a half-baked curvature system added into every geometric problem, when there is only an irrational way to square a circle.

Why on Earth would we need to add curvature into every geometric problem?   We account for it when it’s relevant.

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JackBlack

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It is only if I talked about someone behind the mountain that this would be relevant.
You talked about someone in a valley seeing mountains.

Again, why don't you address the issues with your fantasy?
Again, your nonsense fails to explain why the sun does not appear to change size at all.
Your nonsense with a magical zone of perception wouldn't even be able to see the sun or moon, even with the distances used in the FE model, as it is too far away.
Your nonsense, with a magical zone of perception, has no explanation at all for what causes this magical zone, nor why it should increase as you get higher.
Your nonsense, with a magical zone of perception, in no way explains why objects appear to be obstructed by the horizon, disappearing from the bottom up. In fact, your nonsense would indicate objects disappear from the top down, as the top will leave your zone of perception first.
This also means it can't account for why tall enough objects can be seen when far away.

We should al be made to slope a portion of the Earth's circumference divided by the amount of curvature there should be in that number of feet, causing us to perpetually draw dlightly leaning triangles and measure for decimal points of curve. Doesn't that sound fun?
Why?
What is the point?

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bulmabriefs144

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  • Roco the Fox

Actually, he (you?) was talking about the optics of seeing a boat and how only with curvature of the earth would the be any obstruction, and how flat Earthers only look at the ground. This mechanism of perception is identical if you want to see the sunset. You can see it a better for longer at a mountaintop with no obstruction. Meanwhile, the person at a valley gets on the view of it setting into a mountain. Why is that? Because your zone of perception (your "sphere") moves with you.

No, it’s because there’s a mountain in the way.

Sometimes the simple answers really are the best.

Golly, you're so smart!

It's too bad you didn't both to actually examine the picture. The first stickfigure is in front of a mountain, the second stickfigure is on top of the mountain.

Where’s the sun in that that picture?

Quote
It is only if I talked about someone behind the mountain that this would be relevant. You kinda ignored the rest of the idea to focus on the last part of the mountain being in the way when you face the sunset.

I’m going by what you said that the person in the valley sees the sun “setting into a mountain”.   How does someone see the sun set into a mountain if the mountain is behind them?

Quote
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What way should the curve be?

Oh, I dunno. We should al be made to slope a portion of the Earth's circumference divided by the amount of curvature there should be in that number of feet, causing us to perpetually draw dlightly leaning triangles and measure for decimal points of curve. Doesn't that sound fun? Or wait, neither Pythagoras nor any other mathematician advised this added into the curriculum. Something about have a half-baked curvature system added into every geometric problem, when there is only an irrational way to square a circle.

Why on Earth would we need to add curvature into every geometric problem?   We account for it when it’s relevant.

I will use  that drawing with the stickfigure.

Because if you're creating real world math why don't any of your models deal with actual hills that should be at all places because of the sloped curvature of the Earth?

Lemme answer that for you. These were not real world models. Pythagoras was delusional. He thought up shapes that don't exist in the real world (2D triangles, squares, trapezoids), and then dreamed up math for them. Sorry but aside from drawing one on a chalkboard, no triangle exists anywhere outside the mind. We are supposed to trust the math (no, he's crazy) which is only useful as math as a tool for other measurements (judging angles, measuring perimeters, creating a magical circle so you can chant and cackle while stirring a pot), and then he proceeds to create dogma about how the world is round. Now, is it even round (also accounts for globes, cones, discs, and cylinders) or have we settled on the idea that it's a globe? Because globes don't lend well to the physics present in Earth, and I just mentioned about four other shapes it could be without screwing with the direction of water. One Piece has a round Earth, but it also has water able to curve sideways or like a serpent.

Archimedes was also crazy. Maybe you can prove the Earth is a disc. But you measure it by cutting it into four quadrants, not by coming up with pi and having geeks try to memorize decimal places. The ancient (Egyptians and such) used 3 1/8 before this number was invented, but anywhere from 3 to 4 works perfectly fine. This is because you cut the circle in half to measure diameter, then bisect it at 90 degrees, measuring radius like so.

Even if you are making tires for a living, you only ever have to measure their radius from the center, and the diameter to make sure it is even. It is insane to make math that has no purpose.

So, back to the problem of the sun setting in the model. Lemme show you what is happening. Hold on... lemme switch to the computer.



The guy facing the mountain sees it disappear into the mountains long before it sets elsewhere. Note how the parabola goes down, and the rays cross each parabola at certain points. At noon, the light of the sun crosses the peak of the parabola (i should have measured these parabolas so noon looks at the same time for all three, but anyway), and sunrise, it hits the near end of the parabola, and it drifts away from the far end at sunset. This model is maybe 80% accurate, since we are working with 3D not 2D space,  and that sun might need to be repositioned to where the word "First" is (changing the position of its rays), but it suits the purposes of understanding what is going on. The sun never "dips" into the sky but rather moves past perspective or territory.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 05:40:16 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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Unconvinced

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The parabola?  Are parabolas real, when triangles and circles don’t exist?

This is so much horse shit, I’m not even going to bother unpicking it all.

Jack!  Go ahead.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 06:04:25 AM by Unconvinced »

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bulmabriefs144

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  • Roco the Fox
Ceci N'est Pas Un Pipe

"This is not a pipe."

The representation of a thing is not the thing. When I draw a two-dimensional image of a lamp, it's not a lamp, it's a picture of a lamp. Likewise, if I take a picture of a beautiful girl, no matter how I fantasize, she cannot hold me close.



All geometry is based on models of things. But nowhere in the natural world do these shapes really exist.

These shapes are useful in measuring objects, but we must remember that they are delusions, and in fact we aren't sure of our measurements. Yes, a parabola isn't real, but it sufficient for understanding the measurements here. But these are models only.

Anyone who thinks math is accurate reality is insane. It is at best only 80% accurate. And often, far less than that.

https://www.sciencealert.com/a-viral-tiktok-video-raises-a-legitimate-question-is-mathematics-real
Quote
@gracie.ham also asks how Pythagoras came up with his theorem. The short answer is: he didn't.
Pythagoras of Samos (c. 570-495 BC) probably heard about the idea we now associate with his name while he was in Egypt. He may have been the person to introduce it to Greece, but we don't really know.

Pythagoras didn't use his theorem for anything practical. He was primarily interested in numerology and the mysticism of numbers, rather than the applications of mathematics.

The Babylonians, on the other hand, may well have used their knowledge of right triangles for more concrete purposes, although we don't really know. We do have evidence from ancient India and Rome showing the dimensions 3-4-5 were used as a simple but effective way to create right angles in the construction of religious altars and surveying.

The Babylonians actually built things. Pythagoras was just a loser plagiarist who didn't even invent the theory he puts his name on. So why should we believe him when he then claims "the moon is round, so the Earth must be round"? But even is it round? We only know that the moon is a disc (and only can see one said of said disc), short of buying what NASA says about it. And they have alot of axes to grind.

So we know the moon is a round disc without enough proof that it's also a three dimensional object, and somehow that translates into "knowing" that Earth is not only a round disc but actually a globe? Ummm, you're gonna have to explain how that translates, because that doesn't add up by any logic I know of. That's sleight of hand.

I respect practical science and math. I have no use for theoretical models that you can't build anything with. Nor do I have any use for theoretical physicists like Hawking. Tesla was a genius, because he actually built things that work.
https://www.quora.com/Was-Stephen-Hawking-smarter-than-Nikola-Tesla?share=1
Quote
No comparison between the two.

Just like Einstein. Hawking was another armchair theorist with ZERO practical competency.

But before that I want to ask you a question that how do you define as being smart? A person with fancy theories and bunch of equations with wide range peer support is what you called as being smart? Or a person with extensive problem solving capability in mind without using pen and paper and build working technologies which are usable by the masses?

I am yet to find a working technology existing in market which has anything to do with theories of Einstein and Hawking. But Tesla’s technologies are used throughout the world.

Now come another question, that what is science according to you? A bunch of “attractive” non-engineerable theories with complicated equations with peer review support, or a theory which is directly transferable as a technology?

For me, if a theory cannot be transferable to any useful technology, it’s as good as theories of Unicorns and dragons. They are good only for movie scripts. That’s why sci-fi movies are full of these spacetime, black hole, worm hole, time travel concepts. Hardly you will see a movie which comprehend natural philosophy. It would be too boring, at-least for 21st century audiences.

Scientists of today think unnecessarily too deeply and not clearly. They are mostly mathematicians and rarely have any connection to nature. Ever since relativity is pushed as mainstream, no significant invention happened in the past hundred years. Science is hijacked into a religious cult with very little scope for critical thinking.

Tesla was a Victorian time scientist. That put him in the same category as Faraday, Maxwell, Heaviside, Thomson, Steinmetz. He was quite ahead of his time, even today. He went in to experimenting areas of electricity which are never touched and went beyond the law of circuitization, i.e., electricity only works in closed circuit. This was the primary concept of wireless power transmission, which I have explained here:
Partha Sarathi Mishra (ପାର୍ଥ ସାରଥୀ ମିଶ୍ର)'s answer to How is wireless electricity possible? What does the idea of wireless electricity mean for the future of devices and appliances?

So those who claim Tesla didn’t understand science are those who never spend time in studying any of his works and never tried to replicate any of his experiment. Problem is their incompetency. They want all answers from academia, which is impossible. Tesla was not for dogmatic (neither was then nor today).

All our modern technologies use science before 1920. No technology uses anything related to relativity, quantum mechanics, string theory etc.

Hawking was pillar of corruption in science. Just like Einstein, he had no idea of the units and disciplines of measurement. Because they will never going to experiment anything as its useless for them. These people had no idea how to formulate a theory of measurement and the theory he developed takes no notice of the modern approach to measurement and worse, contradicts some of its fundamental principles.

As a fundamental requirement, a theory of measurement always assumes an absolute standard of measurement. The relativity theory begins with its first postulate by making the assumption that no such absolute conception exists. Therefore the theory is dead as a scientific theory of measurement, because no scientific theory at all can be built on the shifting sands of the assumption that any one and all inertial reference frames are equally valid as a frame within which the standards of measurement can be defined. Such a theory is obviously a contradiction, since no clear meaning can be assigned to any measurement, since all are relatively absolute to each other at the same time.

Hawking also lacks basic understanding of thermodynamics. He extended the absurd black concept and derived an equation for it’s temperature as:
T = ħc^3/8πGMk

Here,
T is temperature,
ħ is reduced Planck's constant,
G is constant of gravitation,
M is black hole mass, and
k is Boltzmann's constant.

Now ħ, G and k are universal constants so they have no thermodynamic character.

The numbers 8 and π are pure numbers so they too have no thermodynamic character.

Temperature T and mass M have thermodynamic character. Temperature is always intensive, according to the 0th and 2nd laws of thermodynamics.

Mass is not intensive, mass is extensive.

In any thermodynamic equation the units must be the same on both sides (dimensional analysis) and the thermodynamic character must also balance.

Hawking's equation equates temperature, which is always intensive, to a combination of terms which is not intensive. His equation is therefore in violation of the laws of thermodynamics. So it’s false.

Tesla's technologies runs the whole power grid of the world which runs our houses. The world would have been not same if there would been no Tesla.

Sorry Hawking’s fanboys, but comparing Hawking with Tesla, is like comparing primary school kid with a PhD.

I hope after getting these information, such absurd question will not be asked.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 07:09:48 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

?

DataOverFlow2022

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Because if you're creating real world math why don't any of your models deal with actual hills that should be at all places because of the sloped curvature of the Earth?



One.  The sun even in the flat earth model is way above the top of any mountain.

Two.  We have oceans we can model.



Then.  For flat earth. The sun has to do strange things.  Like travel south in its daily circuit for Africa.




Again…. What do you not get…


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Unconvinced

  • 4030
  • +48/-47
Ceci N'est Pas Un Pipe

"This is not a pipe."

The representation of a thing is not the thing. When I draw a two-dimensional image of a lamp, it's not a lamp, it's a picture of a lamp. Likewise, if I take a picture of a beautiful girl, no matter how I fantasize, she cannot hold me close.



All geometry is based on models of things. But nowhere in the natural world do these shapes really exist.

These shapes are useful in measuring objects, but we must remember that they are delusions, and in fact we aren't sure of our measurements. Yes, a parabola isn't real, but it sufficient for understanding the measurements here. But these are models only.

Anyone who thinks math is accurate reality is insane. It is at best only 80% accurate. And often, far less than that.

You can’t have it both ways.  If you want to dismiss 2D geometry as not real, you invalidate any argument using your own scribbles on a piece of paper.

Slow clap.

Quote
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-viral-tiktok-video-raises-a-legitimate-question-is-mathematics-real
Quote
@gracie.ham also asks how Pythagoras came up with his theorem. The short answer is: he didn't.
Pythagoras of Samos (c. 570-495 BC) probably heard about the idea we now associate with his name while he was in Egypt. He may have been the person to introduce it to Greece, but we don't really know.

Pythagoras didn't use his theorem for anything practical. He was primarily interested in numerology and the mysticism of numbers, rather than the applications of mathematics.

The Babylonians, on the other hand, may well have used their knowledge of right triangles for more concrete purposes, although we don't really know. We do have evidence from ancient India and Rome showing the dimensions 3-4-5 were used as a simple but effective way to create right angles in the construction of religious altars and surveying.

The Babylonians actually built things. Pythagoras was just a loser plagiarist who didn't even invent the theory he puts his name on. So why should we believe him when he then claims "the moon is round, so the Earth must be round"? But even is it round? We only know that the moon is a disc (and only can see one said of said disc), short of buying what NASA says about it. And they have alot of axes to grind.

So we know the moon is a round disc without enough proof that it's also a three dimensional object, and somehow that translates into "knowing" that Earth is not only a round disc but actually a globe? Ummm, you're gonna have to explain how that translates, because that doesn't add up by any logic I know of. That's sleight of hand.

I respect practical science and math. I have no use for theoretical models that you can't build anything with. Nor do I have any use for theoretical physicists like Hawking. Tesla was a genius, because he actually built things that work.

I’ve designed and built things. Things that the Babylonians couldn’t conceive of.

I’ve used geometry to make real world practical equipment, mainly optical systems as it happens.  But I’m betting you don’t respect that do you?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 07:44:06 AM by Unconvinced »

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Mikey T.

  • 3546
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Ceci N'est Pas Un Pipe

"This is not a pipe."

The representation of a thing is not the thing. When I draw a two-dimensional image of a lamp, it's not a lamp, it's a picture of a lamp. Likewise, if I take a picture of a beautiful girl, no matter how I fantasize, she cannot hold me close.



All geometry is based on models of things. But nowhere in the natural world do these shapes really exist.

These shapes are useful in measuring objects, but we must remember that they are delusions, and in fact we aren't sure of our measurements. Yes, a parabola isn't real, but it sufficient for understanding the measurements here. But these are models only.

Anyone who thinks math is accurate reality is insane. It is at best only 80% accurate. And often, far less than that.

https://www.sciencealert.com/a-viral-tiktok-video-raises-a-legitimate-question-is-mathematics-real
Quote
@gracie.ham also asks how Pythagoras came up with his theorem. The short answer is: he didn't.
Pythagoras of Samos (c. 570-495 BC) probably heard about the idea we now associate with his name while he was in Egypt. He may have been the person to introduce it to Greece, but we don't really know.

Pythagoras didn't use his theorem for anything practical. He was primarily interested in numerology and the mysticism of numbers, rather than the applications of mathematics.

The Babylonians, on the other hand, may well have used their knowledge of right triangles for more concrete purposes, although we don't really know. We do have evidence from ancient India and Rome showing the dimensions 3-4-5 were used as a simple but effective way to create right angles in the construction of religious altars and surveying.

The Babylonians actually built things. Pythagoras was just a loser plagiarist who didn't even invent the theory he puts his name on. So why should we believe him when he then claims "the moon is round, so the Earth must be round"? But even is it round? We only know that the moon is a disc (and only can see one said of said disc), short of buying what NASA says about it. And they have alot of axes to grind.

So we know the moon is a round disc without enough proof that it's also a three dimensional object, and somehow that translates into "knowing" that Earth is not only a round disc but actually a globe? Ummm, you're gonna have to explain how that translates, because that doesn't add up by any logic I know of. That's sleight of hand.

I respect practical science and math. I have no use for theoretical models that you can't build anything with. Nor do I have any use for theoretical physicists like Hawking. Tesla was a genius, because he actually built things that work.
https://www.quora.com/Was-Stephen-Hawking-smarter-than-Nikola-Tesla?share=1
Quote
No comparison between the two.

Just like Einstein. Hawking was another armchair theorist with ZERO practical competency.

But before that I want to ask you a question that how do you define as being smart? A person with fancy theories and bunch of equations with wide range peer support is what you called as being smart? Or a person with extensive problem solving capability in mind without using pen and paper and build working technologies which are usable by the masses?

I am yet to find a working technology existing in market which has anything to do with theories of Einstein and Hawking. But Tesla’s technologies are used throughout the world.

Now come another question, that what is science according to you? A bunch of “attractive” non-engineerable theories with complicated equations with peer review support, or a theory which is directly transferable as a technology?

For me, if a theory cannot be transferable to any useful technology, it’s as good as theories of Unicorns and dragons. They are good only for movie scripts. That’s why sci-fi movies are full of these spacetime, black hole, worm hole, time travel concepts. Hardly you will see a movie which comprehend natural philosophy. It would be too boring, at-least for 21st century audiences.

Scientists of today think unnecessarily too deeply and not clearly. They are mostly mathematicians and rarely have any connection to nature. Ever since relativity is pushed as mainstream, no significant invention happened in the past hundred years. Science is hijacked into a religious cult with very little scope for critical thinking.

Tesla was a Victorian time scientist. That put him in the same category as Faraday, Maxwell, Heaviside, Thomson, Steinmetz. He was quite ahead of his time, even today. He went in to experimenting areas of electricity which are never touched and went beyond the law of circuitization, i.e., electricity only works in closed circuit. This was the primary concept of wireless power transmission, which I have explained here:
Partha Sarathi Mishra (ପାର୍ଥ ସାରଥୀ ମିଶ୍ର)'s answer to How is wireless electricity possible? What does the idea of wireless electricity mean for the future of devices and appliances?

So those who claim Tesla didn’t understand science are those who never spend time in studying any of his works and never tried to replicate any of his experiment. Problem is their incompetency. They want all answers from academia, which is impossible. Tesla was not for dogmatic (neither was then nor today).

All our modern technologies use science before 1920. No technology uses anything related to relativity, quantum mechanics, string theory etc.

Hawking was pillar of corruption in science. Just like Einstein, he had no idea of the units and disciplines of measurement. Because they will never going to experiment anything as its useless for them. These people had no idea how to formulate a theory of measurement and the theory he developed takes no notice of the modern approach to measurement and worse, contradicts some of its fundamental principles.

As a fundamental requirement, a theory of measurement always assumes an absolute standard of measurement. The relativity theory begins with its first postulate by making the assumption that no such absolute conception exists. Therefore the theory is dead as a scientific theory of measurement, because no scientific theory at all can be built on the shifting sands of the assumption that any one and all inertial reference frames are equally valid as a frame within which the standards of measurement can be defined. Such a theory is obviously a contradiction, since no clear meaning can be assigned to any measurement, since all are relatively absolute to each other at the same time.

Hawking also lacks basic understanding of thermodynamics. He extended the absurd black concept and derived an equation for it’s temperature as:
T = ħc^3/8πGMk

Here,
T is temperature,
ħ is reduced Planck's constant,
G is constant of gravitation,
M is black hole mass, and
k is Boltzmann's constant.

Now ħ, G and k are universal constants so they have no thermodynamic character.

The numbers 8 and π are pure numbers so they too have no thermodynamic character.

Temperature T and mass M have thermodynamic character. Temperature is always intensive, according to the 0th and 2nd laws of thermodynamics.

Mass is not intensive, mass is extensive.

In any thermodynamic equation the units must be the same on both sides (dimensional analysis) and the thermodynamic character must also balance.

Hawking's equation equates temperature, which is always intensive, to a combination of terms which is not intensive. His equation is therefore in violation of the laws of thermodynamics. So it’s false.

Tesla's technologies runs the whole power grid of the world which runs our houses. The world would have been not same if there would been no Tesla.

Sorry Hawking’s fanboys, but comparing Hawking with Tesla, is like comparing primary school kid with a PhD.

I hope after getting these information, such absurd question will not be asked.
Wow, so much wrong.   

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DataOverFlow2022

  • 8350
  • +48/-75

Because if you're creating real world math why don't any of your models deal with actual hills that should be at all places because of the sloped curvature of the Earth?



You mean like the two cited examples you ignored in this post?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90730.msg2368774#msg2368774

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Themightykabool

  • 13097
  • +58/-79
The parabola?  Are parabolas real, when triangles and circles don’t exist?

This is so much horse shit, I’m not even going to bother unpicking it all.

Jack!  Go ahead.



aaahahaha

that's what i've been saying

for some reason circles and triangles don't "work" in turbo or bulm's realities.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

  • Flat Earth Inquisitor
  • 7370
  • +54/-92
  • Will I still be perfect tomorrow?
Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #100 on: September 12, 2022, 08:42:48 AM »

I rarely pop in here as I can’t be arsed with trolls, but has this muppet ever said what he does for a living? Nothing practical going by his proofs.

FYI, I used to be a sheet metal worker (30yrs back) making hoppers for recycling plant and ducting, pre-CAD, we would get a drawing of the outer dimensions and had to work out the sides, slopes and panels using, guess what? Trig!

Shit I once used Pythagoras’s theorem to work out if a tree I was cutting down would hit my shed if it fell where it shouldn’t.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Every man makes a god of his own desire

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Themightykabool

  • 13097
  • +58/-79
Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #101 on: September 12, 2022, 09:24:15 AM »
it's very simple.

open window's paintbrush

create a circle 12,000,000pixels wide.
then draw a stick standing up at 2pixels off said circle.
from the top of that stick create a triangle to the tangent.



if you have no idea what any of these words means, we can discuss further.

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Mikey T.

  • 3546
  • +0/-1
Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #102 on: September 12, 2022, 11:06:40 AM »
It's almost like, the same geometric formulas that we talk about that don't match with a FE, work in real life.  Go figure.

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JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #103 on: September 12, 2022, 02:24:21 PM »
Because if you're creating real world math why don't any of your models deal with actual hills that should be at all places because of the sloped curvature of the Earth?
For starters we are on top of that "hill".
And unlike actual hills, this level surface has the same elevation, so you don't actually go down the "hill" when you move.

But also, that hill has such a small amount of curvature it can often be ignored.

But in some cases, that curvature can be quite important, such as explaining why objects are obscured by the horizon.

He thought up shapes that don't exist in the real world (2D triangles, squares, trapezoids), and then dreamed up math for them. Sorry but aside from drawing one on a chalkboard, no triangle exists anywhere outside the mind.
Just because they don't exist as physical objects with 2D lines connecting them doesn't mean they don't exist.
As for existing in the mind, the same can be said of every composite object.
Does a chair really exist, or is that just your mind observing a collection of matter and describing it as a chair?

Because globes don't lend well to the physics present in Earth
You keep asserting this BS, but you are yet to provide a single example where it doesn't work.
Instead all you can do is pretend the world works on pure magic and this pure magic doesn't work with the RE the way you have decided the magic should work.
But none of that magic is based on physics.

The ancient (Egyptians and such) used 3 1/8 before this number was invented, but anywhere from 3 to 4 works perfectly fine.
Due to limited accuracy/precision of creating objects.

Even if you are making tires for a living, you only ever have to measure their radius from the center, and the diameter to make sure it is even. It is insane to make math that has no purpose.
Firstly, not really. People make plenty of things that have no purpose. Some will even collect these useless objects and put them in a gallery.
But more importantly, pi does have a use.
Have you ever driven in a car, or any object with wheels? And wanted to know how far you went? Well that uses math based upon the circumference of the wheel.
In industrial applications it is even more important.

The guy facing the mountain sees it disappear into the mountains long before it sets elsewhere. Note how the parabola goes down, and the rays cross each parabola at certain points. At noon, the light of the sun crosses the peak of the parabola (i should have measured these parabolas so noon looks at the same time for all three, but anyway), and sunrise, it hits the near end of the parabola, and it drifts away from the far end at sunset. This model is maybe 80% accurate, since we are working with 3D not 2D space,  and that sun might need to be repositioned to where the word "First" is (changing the position of its rays), but it suits the purposes of understanding what is going on. The sun never "dips" into the sky but rather moves past perspective or territory.
I would say the model is 0% accurate, and still isn't explaining anything.
You now have the rays of the sun hitting this magic parabola.
Just what does that have to do with seeing the sun or not?
The sun is outside your magic limit of perception, so how can you see it at all?

Are you suggesting that you see the sun wherever the rays hit the parabola?
If so, the rays would hit an entire side of the parabola (or more), so why don't we see a giant wall of sun?
And why doesn't this also work for other objects?

But more importantly, how does this explain how the sun sets at all?
Remember, the sun appears to sink into Earth and appears to be blocked from view by Earth.
That is what you need to explain.

So why should we believe him when he then claims "the moon is round, so the Earth must be round"?
Again with the same strawman.
We don't believe Earth is round because the moon is.
We accept Earth is round because of the mountains of evidence showing it is round, including the evidence you are doing your best to avoid in this thread, sunsets.

We only know that the moon is a disc (and only can see one said of said disc)
Pure BS.
While you may only see 1 side at any given time, if you observe the moon over the course of a month you will notice that it is not exactly the same. Instead it appears to wobble.
This is already enough to show it isn't a disc.
You can also do the same with multiple observers from far away regions on Earth.
But another significant issue is how the moon goes through phases. Just like the complete inability to explain why a sun above a FE should ever set or not be visible, a disc moon has the same issue, why should you have a situation where part of it is illuminated, rather than it entirely illuminated or not illuminated at all? The observed illuminated portions make no sense at all for a flat disc. But if you have the moon being roughly spherical, the regions that are illuminated make perfect sense. Roughly half the moon is illuminated at any given time. Specifically the half that is facing the sun.

So no, we can know that the moon is roughly spherical.

As for your pathetic quote, finding someone else with an irrational hatred of science, who completely misrepresents reality, doesn't make your position justified.
Nor does it magically allow you to address the simple questions which show your model is pure garbage.

Again, your nonsense fails to explain why the sun does not appear to change size at all.
Your nonsense with a magical zone of perception wouldn't even be able to see the sun or moon, even with the distances used in the FE model, as it is too far away.
Your nonsense, with a magical zone of perception, has no explanation at all for what causes this magical zone, nor why it should increase as you get higher.
Your nonsense, with a magical zone of perception, in no way explains why objects appear to be obstructed by the horizon, disappearing from the bottom up. In fact, your nonsense would indicate objects disappear from the top down, as the top will leave your zone of perception first.
This also means it can't account for why tall enough objects can be seen when far away.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #104 on: September 13, 2022, 07:09:51 AM »

Because if you're creating real world math why don't any of your models deal with actual hills that should be at all places because of the sloped curvature of the Earth?



One.  The sun even in the flat earth model is way above the top of any mountain.

Two.  We have oceans we can model.



Then.  For flat earth. The sun has to do strange things.  Like travel south in its daily circuit for Africa.




Again…. What do you not get…



Once again, you are the one looking at the ground (not the sky) as per two of your models.

Yes the sun moves occasionally south and north. You would know this, if you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for. We have seasons. Otherwise, you're confusing "south" and "clockwise/counterclockwise." The sun moves along a rotary path, yes. Round Earth apparently explains seasons as "well the Earth tilts a bit, and moves a bit further away and uhhhhh this is how we have seasons."

Now, if gonna make insulting parodies of other people's models, turnabout is fair play. I've taken the liberty of expanding your sun and adding curvature.



I hope you enjoy. Maybe one day you'll understand just how absurd this model looks to me.

Quote from: JackBlack
I would say the model is 0% accurate, and still isn't explaining anything.
You now have the rays of the sun hitting this magic parabola.
Just what does that have to do with seeing the sun or not?
The sun is outside your magic limit of perception, so how can you see it at all?
 



If you'll notice, the sun in the last part appears to dip into the earth/sea. Probably sea. The sailboat cannot be seen because it is outside his range of perception. However, the sailboat can see the sun when it reaches some of these positions, as it has its own parabola, though it drops out of sight in the other two.

Now this isn't completely accurate, as the timeline of sunrise/sunset is mostly consistent, whereas here it possibly isn't. Maybe we're concluding that these are the same timeframes more or less, under different positions. In which case at noon, the sun casts shadow on both, being high enough to project to both areas. In any case, as it moves through these parabolas it rises and sets, but is actually the same elevation the whole time.  Holdon, I can do better.



In this model, the two are standing on opposite sides of a forest, at certain times of the same day. The boat is (an uncertain number of) miles away. The sun casts shadows around each based on their location and the time of day. The uncertain nature of how many miles away means that when the sun sets on the shore, it may be anywhere from also in the process of setting to rising, depending on whether it is closer to the shore or another timezone.

Not that this model matters to you. You've hardened your heart against it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 08:06:31 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #105 on: September 13, 2022, 07:30:46 AM »


No, it really isn’t.
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

Every man makes a god of his own desire

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #106 on: September 13, 2022, 07:30:52 AM »
don't add a curvature of hill in the middle of a fairly flat distance.


draw the land as a circle as the model states it is.

bonus points if you draw it to scale.


misrepresenting it wrongly, then claiming wrongness, makes you wronger.




THIS IS WRONG


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #107 on: September 13, 2022, 08:16:10 AM »


Yes the sun moves occasionally south and north. You would know this, if you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for. We have seasons.

Let’s start here.

This is what I actually posted…

Then.  For flat earth. The sun has to do strange things.  Like travel south in its daily circuit for Africa.



What do you not understand about daily circuit

Another example. When the sun is directly above the earth’s equator,   On the flat earth model.  For the sun to raise in the east in South America and then east over Indonesia.  The sun would have to travel north and parallel to the US west coat.





This?  We should see the sun twice daily in the flat earth model?  Note.  Added: as in two different passes in one day? 


Then for the ship and real world example.



If the ship was physically blocked from view from waves, not the earther’s curvature, in this video. And the sea is relatively peaceful.  The ship would ride the waves, and bob in and out of view as it rode the waves in a flat earth model. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 11:17:38 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #108 on: September 13, 2022, 09:40:14 AM »

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 link=topicr=90730.msg2368880#msg2368880 date=1663078191

If you'll notice, the sun in the last part appears to dip into the earth/sea. Probably sea. The sailboat cannot be seen because it is outside his range of perception. However, the sailboat can see the sun when it reaches some of these positions, as it has its own parabola, though it drops out of sight in the other two.




Your changing the argument.

On a flat earth.  The sun would always be in the line of sight in this example.  The ship, as it bobbed up and down with the waves, would always be in the line of sight.  Why can’t they be brought back into view with a pair of binoculars or a spotting scope on a flat earth? 

It’s because the earth is a sphere and the curvature of the earth physically blocks them from view.  For the sun, the curvature of the earth literally blocks the sun’s light from the viewer. 

The sun is bright enough that it would never be out of the perception of the viewer unless something is physically blocking the light like the earth’s curvature.

Take the North Star.  It’s visible without a telescope or a pair of binoculars on a clear night.  As you travel south towards the equator, it gets lower and lower on the horizon without any noticeable dimming.  Then once below the equator traveling south, the horizon physically blocks the North Star from view. Not because it dimmed in any noticeable degree.  Not because it did anything to become magically imperceptible. Because the curvature of the earth literal blocks the light of the North Star where even a telescope cannot bring it back into view.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 09:50:00 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #109 on: September 13, 2022, 01:22:08 PM »

 In any case, as it moves through these parabolas it rises and sets, but is actually the same elevation the whole time.  Holdon, I can do better.



You do understand in the flat earth model the way I understand it, there is always a space between the earth and the sun.  The sun is always a set hight above the earth.



The flat earth model doesn’t explain:

One, why the sun stays essential the same size in diameter.

Two, the daily circuit the sun makes would require the sun to travel near parallel with the west coast of the USA to rise in the east in South America and Indonesia.

Three. For a ship out at sea, the sun, and the North Star which would always be in the line of sight on a flat earth model, how would they become physically blocked from view by the earth / ground / sea?  And how the earth can block the light of the sun and the North Star.  And these items that are in the line of sight for a flat earth model cannot be brought back into view with a pair of binoculars / telescope?



Four.  Have no idea what the parabola business is.  You mean how the sun arcs through the sky because the earth orbits the sun as the earth spins on it axis.  While from day to day there is no perceivable change is the sun’s  diameter? 


You keep trying to claim things impossible on a flat earth as evidence of a flat earth?


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Alexei

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #110 on: September 13, 2022, 01:29:27 PM »
Everyone knows the only way to beat the game is to not play it.
Thus, you are in a fight that goes on forever (seriously, check out the "I won Heiwa's BS challenge" thread).

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Stash

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JackBlack

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2022, 03:01:03 PM »
Yes the sun moves occasionally south and north. You would know this, if you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for. We have seasons. Otherwise, you're confusing "south" and "clockwise/counterclockwise." The sun moves along a rotary path, yes. Round Earth apparently explains seasons as "well the Earth tilts a bit, and moves a bit further away and uhhhhh this is how we have seasons."
If you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for, you wouldn't have spouted such nonsense.
RE does not explain seasons based upon distance to the sun.
The explanation is based upon the tilt. This tilt causes the sun to hit the summer region more straight on (instead of at an angle) and illuminate it for a longer period of time.

It makes sense, unlike the FE fantasy.


And again, something which only appears to work from a cursory glance without any real thought.
Why does the sun follow this path on the parabola?
You appear to have it going straight down.
The problem that causes is that only certain people on Earth would see the sun each day, and only for a fairly short period of time.

e.g. consider the equinox.
This has the sun over the equator.
With your magic zone of perception being limited to 5 km (the distance to the horizon when standing near sea level), that means only locations within 5 km of the equator would see the sun.
If I instead take your arbitrary 11 archaic units, and convert it to a generous 18 km, that is still only an incredibly small sliver of the world that would be able to see the sun on the equinox. Instead, the entire world can.
But another issue is that the equator has a length of 40 000 km (or 62800 km for a FE), and the sun needs to go around that in roughly 24 hours. That means it would cover the 36 km (18*2) in a matter of 1.3 or 0.8 minutes depending on if you use the RE distance or the FE distance.
So the best case scenario, someone on the equator, directly under the path of the sun on the equinox, sees it for all of 1.3 minutes. As they move away from the equator that time shrinks, until at 18 km away from it, they just catch a glimpse of the sun, and beyond that they wouldn't see it at all.

But in reality, during the equinox basically the entire world gets 12 hours of daylight (except right near the poles where they get more).
In order for this idea to even have a chance at working, you need your magic zone of perception to be such that the edge of the zone, where the sun would disappear, to be located at the point where someone would observe the sun overhead at the same time.
Using RE numbers, that is 10 000 km away. Using FE numbers, that varies depending on where you are, (for the equinox, on the equator it is closer to 14 000 km).
But in order for this idea to even have a chance at working, the edge of the zone needs to be where the horizon is, which is roughly 5 km away for someone standing near sea level.
So you need it to be both 5 km away and 10 000 km away. An impossibility, showing this cannot work.

Another issue is the size.
You have just projected the sun down as a circle, placing it inside the dome.
But why wouldn't it just project down and hit the parabola and appear there?
This means at zenith it would appear as a circle.
But after that it would be stretched in the vertical direction, appearing to get significantly longer as the day goes on.

And unless you have it as a circular dome, it will still appear to change size horizontally as the distance to the dome will change.

Your second diagram just further demonstrates this:

This is much better at showing why it doesn't work at all.
You have 2 people, situated such that their circular horizons touch at a point.
If they were near sea level, that would put them roughly 10 km apart.
Yet you have it so 6 pm for the one on the right is before 8 am for the one on the left.

You have the sun set for the person on the right, as it is rising for the person on the left.

But back in reality, these 2 people are so close that they will observe the sun in basically the same position.

The sailboat cannot be seen because it is outside his range of perception.
The more important part is how it disappears.

Consider when it is like this (just showing that portion):

What should the boat look like here?
It is just at the edge of your magic zone of perception.
The top portion is outside, but the bottom portion is inside.

Or even better, if it is sailing to the left, from shortly before, when it is entirely inside, to shortly after, when it is entirely outside.
What do you see?

Do you observe it appear to sink, with Earth obstructing the view from the bottom up, or do you see the top just start to magically vanish as your model indicates should happen?

Now this isn't completely accurate
Like I said before, I would say it is 0% accurate. It completely fails to account for basically everything, and a key thing you have tried to explain with it shows it doesn't match reality at all, so you have entirely failed to explain what is observed in reality. So it still isn't explaining anything.

It is just a very poor attempt at trying to make a FE work, to appease those who desperately want to make a FE work, who will accept anything which pretend to make it work without question or thought.

Not that this model matters to you. You've hardened your heart against it.
And more religious BS.
I haven't hardened my heart. In fact, I don't bother with my heart for this kind of garbage.
Instead, I use my brain. Perhaps you should try it some time?
I look at your model, and actually think about it.
I think about what it would mean, and see so many flaws it isn't funny.

That is why I discard it as the garbage it is.

Conversely, you don't use your brain. You don't think about the model and the logical implications of it.
You just care about trying to make a FE work, when it can't.

If you want to show I'm wrong, and show that your idea isn't garbage, then try to actually think and answer these issues in a logical and consistent manner:
Your nonsense fails to explain why the sun does not appear to change size at all.
Your nonsense with a magical zone of perception wouldn't even be able to see the sun or moon, even with the distances used in the FE model, as it is too far away.
Your nonsense, with a magical zone of perception, has no explanation at all for what causes this magical zone, nor why it should increase as you get higher.
Your nonsense, with a magical zone of perception, in no way explains why objects appear to be obstructed by the horizon, disappearing from the bottom up. In fact, your nonsense would indicate objects disappear from the top down, as the top will leave your zone of perception first.
This also means it can't account for why tall enough objects can be seen when far away.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2022, 03:27:07 AM »
Yes the sun moves occasionally south and north. You would know this, if you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for. We have seasons. Otherwise, you're confusing "south" and "clockwise/counterclockwise." The sun moves along a rotary path, yes. Round Earth apparently explains seasons as "well the Earth tilts a bit, and moves a bit further away and uhhhhh this is how we have seasons."
If you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for, you wouldn't have spouted such nonsense.
RE does not explain seasons based upon distance to the sun.

The sun passes across the the tropics during summer and winter solstices.

Quote from: Wikipedia
The Tropic of Cancer, which is also referred to as the Northern Tropic, is the most northerly circle of latitude on Earth at which the Sun can be directly overhead. This occurs on the January solstice, when the Northern Hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun to its maximum extent.

You were saying? Try learning real science before you spout off nonsense.

The difference between RE and FE is that in FE, the sun crosses there and shines in a radius around it, rather than tilting the planet.

As for distance, it was mentioned earlier that gravity (a force that should have nothing to do with distance, as it is an attractive force that supposedly pulls objects down toward a central point) is somehow mitigated by distance. Yet temperature is not? Or is not there a difference between sitting inside a fireplace, sitting near a fireplace, and sitting at a distance from the fireplace. Real life thermodynamics would take issue with the idea of infinitely dispersing heat. If the elliptical orbit is real, the whole Earth should feel colder at certain times of year. But blahblahblah, trust the science. And you say "Okay, that makes sense" without questioning it.

Quote
Consider when it is like this (just showing that portion):

What should the boat look like here?
It is just at the edge of your magic zone of perception.
The top portion is outside, but the bottom portion is inside.

You're able to see a faint shape off in the distance.

Not the sailboat in front, the tiny dot to the right of it.

 This isn't difficult to understand. You're making mental blocks against it.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 03:41:11 AM by bulmabriefs144 »
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2022, 03:59:05 AM »


You're able to see a faint shape off in the distance.


How is it we can see objects farther of than the sun or a sailboat?  Such as the northern star.

But the sun or a sailboat become physically blocked from view when they go beyond the horizon where they would always be in the line of sight on a flat earth.  And cannot be brought back into view with a pair of binoculars or a telescope? 

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2022, 04:29:25 AM »


You're able to see a faint shape off in the distance.


How is it we can see objects farther of than the sun or a sailboat?  Such as the northern star.

But the sun or a sailboat become physically blocked from view when they go beyond the horizon where they would always be in the line of sight on a flat earth.

Proof that you haven't been listening even when you accuse me of tuning you out.



Read up to #4. Now, when the sun moves out of sight, we cannot see the sun, but because this is based on perception and illusion, we can see distance stars due to their height and the "shadow" they create.

This isn't visible shadow thow, it's projection. I also explained the two-way mirror effect twice.

And I told people about four or five times that this is not the case. And I told you why this is the case. What is happening to the sun, as it disappears into the sky?

The earth/sea is not curving, the sky is. How many times do I have to explain this?!?

Maybe you don't believe this model, that's fine. But that you don't even try to understand it is really insulting.

Not amount of telescopes can extend this perspective because you are literally looking at a screen. The screen closes around the object and it drops out of sight. It is not high in the atmosphere, so the parabola curves down and it is gone.

They tell us (wrongly) that on a flat Earth, you should be able to see the sun at night. I've already explained why this isn't so. You wouldn't even be looking in the right place for one. Also, it jusr reached the vanishing point. The sailboat and the sun are one in the same. You wrongly claim that it is because of the Earth curving that we can't see past the horizon. But it's the sky. You can't see past the sky, even though objects aren't that distant. The higher an object is, the farther you can see it. This is why we can't see any low stars.
If ρ=m/V, then B=ρsurfobj


Here's my Bible, if ya wanna read

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JackBlack

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #116 on: September 14, 2022, 04:55:49 AM »
Yes the sun moves occasionally south and north. You would know this, if you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for. We have seasons. Otherwise, you're confusing "south" and "clockwise/counterclockwise." The sun moves along a rotary path, yes. Round Earth apparently explains seasons as "well the Earth tilts a bit, and moves a bit further away and uhhhhh this is how we have seasons."
If you understood what the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn are for, you wouldn't have spouted such nonsense.
RE does not explain seasons based upon distance to the sun.

The sun passes across the the tropics during summer and winter solstices.

Quote from: Wikipedia
The Tropic of Cancer, which is also referred to as the Northern Tropic, is the most northerly circle of latitude on Earth at which the Sun can be directly overhead. This occurs on the January solstice, when the Northern Hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun to its maximum extent.

You were saying? Try learning real science before you spout off nonsense.
Follow your own advice.

Where in that quote do you find it mentioning the distance?
The sun is closest to Earth in January, and furthest in February, with a change in distance much larger than the size of Earth.
If it was based on distance, the entire Earth would experience the same seasons.

Like I said, it is based upon tilt, changing the angle of incidence and the duration of daylight, not distance.

The difference between RE and FE is that in FE, the sun crosses there and shines in a radius around it, rather than tilting the planet.
The difference is the RE can actually explain what is observed, while the FE can't at all.

As for distance, it was mentioned earlier that gravity (a force that should have nothing to do with distance, as it is an attractive force that supposedly pulls objects down toward a central point)
Pure BS.
An attractive force pulling objects towards a central point should follow an inverse square law in 3D space.
That means it should vary with distance.

Yet temperature is not?
The change in distance is roughly 5 million km, out of roughly 150 million km.
That is a relatively small change (1 part in 30, which causes a change in intensity of 1 part in 900).
Axial tilt is 23.4 degrees, which causes a change in angle of 46.8 degrees, with the change in intensity due to that depending on the exact location. For a point on the tropic, that is a change in area illuminated by a certain amount of light from the sun of 46%.
And that changes the daylight period by a variable amount depending on the location.

If the elliptical orbit is real, the whole Earth should feel colder at certain times of year. But blahblahblah, trust the science.
Or, actually think rather than just latching onto the first thing that comes to mind and ignoring all other effects.

And you say "Okay, that makes sense" without questioning it.
Quite the opposite.
I question it and think about it, and after doing so, I recognise that it does make sense.
Conversely, you latch onto a single point and then dismiss it as nonsense without thinking at all.

And for the FE nonsense you are spouting, you just accept it without questioning it, while I think about it and realise it doesn't work at all.

This isn't difficult to understand. You're making mental blocks against it.
Well you are right about one thing, it is incredibly easy to understand.
You have setup a zone of perception.
In the diagram I provided, the top of the boat is outside that zone while the bottom is inside.
That should mean the bottom is visible, but the top is not.

This should mean that as a boat sails away, we see it vanish from the top down.
But in reality, we observe boats appear to sink and disappear from the bottom up with Earth obstructing the view.

Incredibly simple, yet you avoid it because of how easily it demonstrates your nonsense is wrong.

Now, when the sun moves out of sight, we cannot see the sun
And if your nonsense was true, that would mean only very few people would see the sun each day, and only for a minute or so.

We can see the sun for a much greater distance than we can see the boat.

The earth/sea is not curving, the sky is. How many times do I have to explain this?!?
Only until you can make a coherent explanation.

Not amount of telescopes can extend this perspective because you are literally looking at a screen.
Except we aren't.
If we were, we would be able to go up to the screen and directly interact with it.


They tell us (wrongly) that on a flat Earth, you should be able to see the sun at night. I've already explained why this isn't so.
No, you haven't
You have come up with an excuse which can be shown to be completely false, which you refuse to actually try and justify in any way.
That isn't explaining.

it jusr reached the vanishing point.
The vanishing point is infinitely far away.

The higher an object is, the farther you can see it.
Which directly contradicts your model.
For that to be the case, you need the sky to curve upwards, away from Earth, not downwards towards Earth.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #117 on: September 14, 2022, 05:01:19 AM »

Read up to #4. Now, when the sun moves out of sight, we cannot see the sun, but because this is based on perception and illusion, we can see distance stars due to their height and the "shadow" they create.

The question was why it can’t be brought back into view with a pair of binoculars, a spotting scope, or a telescope.  You know. Items that can collect more of the available light than are own eyes.

Especially for the sun.  We see the sun because the light of the sun reaches the viewer.  More so in the context of the North Star in the northern hemisphere that is fainter, smaller, and farther away than the sun will ever be.



On a flat earth.  There is nothing to physically stop the light of the sun from reaching the viewer. Which means the sun should be always visible on a flat earth. 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 05:43:53 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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Themightykabool

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2022, 06:09:50 AM »
Change your picture


Use a light ray from the bottom of the ship and a ray from the top of the ship.

Key is bottom

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: Theory : if earth is flat, the optics of the sun are not common sense geometry
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2022, 08:26:50 AM »

Not amount of telescopes can extend this perspective because you are literally looking at a screen.

The problem is the sun isn’t a “screen”.  It’s literally the main projector.  Then when the sun goes beyond the horizon, and the light is physically blocked from view or from being projected by the curvature of the earth, the earths curvature creates the shadow we call night fall.  Then in the dimness thousands of more faint projectors than our sun are revealed we label stars.

Your screen has no explanation why laser ranger finders and radar works.  Along with line of sight radio transmissions. 

Quote
Line-of-sight propagation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-of-sight_propagation

Line-of-sight propagation is a characteristic of electromagnetic radiation or acoustic wave propagation which means waves travel in a direct path from the source to the receiver. Electromagnetic transmission includes light emissions traveling in a straight line. The rays or waves may be diffracted, refracted, reflected, or absorbed by the atmosphere and obstructions with material and generally cannot travel over the horizon or behind obstacles.



In contrast to line-of-sight propagation, at low frequency (below approximately 3 MHz) due to diffraction, radio waves can travel as ground waves, which follow the contour of the Earth. This enables AM radio stations to transmit beyond the horizon. Additionally, frequencies in the shortwave bands between approximately 1 and 30 MHz, can be refracted back to Earth by the ionosphere, called skywave or "skip" propagation, thus giving radio transmissions in this range a potentially global reach.

However, at frequencies above 30 MHz (VHF and higher) and in lower levels of the atmosphere, neither of these effects are significant. Thus, any obstruction between the transmitting antenna (transmitter) and the receiving antenna (receiver) will block the signal, just like the light that the eye may sense. Therefore, since the ability to visually see a transmitting antenna (disregarding the limitations of the eye's resolution) roughly corresponds to the ability to receive a radio signal from it, the propagation characteristic at these frequencies is called "line-of-sight". The farthest possible point of propagation is referred to as the "radio horizon".


« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 09:47:48 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »