SLS launches in 4 days

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2022, 07:33:00 AM »
Not looking too good.  Hazardous hydrogen leaks apparently.

Use more PTFE tape maybe?

It's only hazardous, because it can make things go boom when a flame/spark is present.  Rockets going boom at take-off, while totally cool looking, are very bad unless they were fired by Russia into Ukraine, then it's just awesome and Karma.
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Crouton

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2022, 08:12:36 AM »
Apparently the leak is so bad that they're having trouble pressurizing the rocket.  They haven't officially called it off yet though.
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Crouton

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2022, 08:20:01 AM »
And we're scrubbed...

We'll pick it up in October I guess.

:(
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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2022, 09:55:53 AM »
Probably for the best. 

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JJA

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2022, 03:33:22 AM »
I hope you enjoyed your rant, see you next week

I did enjoy it, that's the scary part.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2022, 01:25:09 AM »
A long haul international flight carrying hundreds of people, maybe.  You know some people think that we should we cut down on international travel as much as possible?

But space tourism isn’t going replace travel, it’s a whole new wasteful industry that gives a few people a quick joy ride in space.

As for the fuel, starship burns kerosene, similar to aviation fuel.  Hydrogen isn’t free energy, you either produce it from fossil fuels, releasing CO2 or have to put energy into electrolysis for green hydrogen.   
Space tourism is a new industry, yes. And we dont yet know what the pro's and con's of it are. A con is obviously environmental impact. The pro's could very much outweigh this in the long term.

Also, starship uses Methane, that produces CO2 and Water as an exhaust. Falcon9 uses Kerosene. Most new rockets in development are going towards methane. The SLS uses hydrogen, but the side boosters are loaded full of various toxic chemicals as it burns, so not good.

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Costs are going down, but there’s a limit to how much you can reduce fuel usage, governed by rocketry equation.  It’s never going to not use a shit load of fuel.
This is true until we use propellant-less methods of reaching Orbit. But this is a very long way away.

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Much simpler solution for the boosters though.  But not as fancy to watch.
Its not. It adds more mass at the booster stage. If you have a booster that is big enough to launch very large payloads you end up with a vehicle about the size of a A380 if not larger. The Starship Booster is about as long, but wider than the A380 Fuselage. Those wings also slow you down during launch due to friction. So less wings is better.

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I think you might be underestimating the challenges.  They might not be show stoppers, but need to be solved as much as launch costs, which takes considerable time and resources.  Also, I believe automated assembly is one of the things they are working on to make it feasible large scale.
Automated assembly is one of the big things they need to solve yes. Including a bunch of orbital stuff. Its mostly the "how do you actually build and operate this giant thing" which is the biggest hurdle. This you can only solve, but building it. You cant build it, if you cant get it into orbit.

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NASA, the ESA, JSA etc don’t blow up satellites in orbit.  That would be the military and the US hasn’t done it since the Cold War.

Are you suggesting we give the power of anti satellite weapons to private companies and then regulate them not to use them? 

This argument makes no sense, and has nothing to do with my point, which is whether systems like Starlink present a significant risk. 
NASA, ESA et al do what the governments say they must do. Nothing more, nothing less. The only reason why NASA did not blow up the satellite, is because there was already a neat organisation that would do it for them, the Airforce.
No one should ever be blowing up sats. Its just stupid politiking.

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Incorrect, they are in orbit below most other satellites, but above the ISS and Chinese stations.  You may be confusing their initial orbit with their operational orbit.

I’ve already said, I’m just as concerned about other companies doing the same thing.  And I’d be equally concerned about similar plans from national agencies.

You seem to be a big fan of SpaceX and are defending it to the hilt, but I’m just talking about the general idea of putting tens or hundreds of thousands more satellites in LEO.  Because a lot of experts say it’s risky.  SpaceX are just ahead at the moment.

I notice you don’t say anything about the link I gave, btw.

I did mention that collisions are a real risk. But you dont know how to deal with issues until you start to deal with them. We are not going to move into the future if we sh*t ourselves every time 2 sats get within 10km of each other. This is like closing down an entire highway for a single car at a time. We need to improve the accuracy of how we track and direct objects in space going forward. Like it or not, there are going to be more sats in space. SpaceX is only one of at least 5 known constellations being planned. 2 of them are government and Oneweb is backed by Europe. So the options are, figure it out, or have everyone one do it except the USA. Im fine with either actually, SpaceX just seems to have a massive head start.

And the linked article is all over the place. It covers a lot of things from 2019 to 2022, some of them already out of date. Not sure what you want me to comment on. Point to a specific thing and we can chat about that.

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The US reluctance to sign treaties it doesn’t like applies just as much to US businesses as it does to national agencies. 

You seem determined to make this into a private sector vs public sector argument, as opposed to talking about the risks of this kind of system.  Interesting.
US business's need to comply to US regulations. And if they want international business, then they need to comply to international laws.

The reason why I am more pro private sector, especially in space is because the Private sector has been far better than the government sector in making milestones since the 80's and 90's, while doing so more economically and safer. If you want to talk risk mitigation, then you need to discuss how to regulate the various aspects of the industries. Governments dont have regulations, they wont care about the things you care about if its their own programs. It will be completely Okay to pollute all astronomy if its government owned sats. History tells us this much.
Heck, China literally drops toxic core stages on villages while their own private industry is working on reusability. What do you think would happen if CCP drops a rocket core on a village school? Oops, sorry, next launch on Tuesday. They will hang the CEO of a private company in a flash though.


« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 01:27:25 AM by MaNaeSWolf »
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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2022, 07:47:01 AM »
Sorry, I should have replied after you made the effort, but I donít really have anything else to say. 

Basically I donít believe developing space tourism for the uber wealthy is in humanityís interests at the moment, and I have some concerns about plans to massively increase the number of satellites in orbit.  Thatís it really, weíll just have to disagree.

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Crouton

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2022, 11:09:25 AM »
We have a new date.  September 27.
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2022, 05:56:51 AM »
So they have a date, but its not certain if they will launch then. The flight termination system relies on a bunch of batteries which cant be replaced or charged on the pad for some really stupid reason. If the range safety officer thinks the FTS needs a battery replacement, then they may have to roll back to the hanger just for this.
This rocket is a pain.
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Heiwa

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2022, 08:11:02 PM »
So they have a date, but its not certain if they will launch then. The flight termination system relies on a bunch of batteries which cant be replaced or charged on the pad for some really stupid reason. If the range safety officer thinks the FTS needs a battery replacement, then they may have to roll back to the hanger just for this.
This rocket is a pain.
I think the complete NASA and its SLS is a pain.

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Stash

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2022, 09:48:08 PM »
So they have a date, but its not certain if they will launch then. The flight termination system relies on a bunch of batteries which cant be replaced or charged on the pad for some really stupid reason. If the range safety officer thinks the FTS needs a battery replacement, then they may have to roll back to the hanger just for this.
This rocket is a pain.

I think this is the latest:

The fueling test, which NASA will attempt on Wednesday (Sept. 21), will test repairs of two hydrogen leaks on the rocket, called the Space Launch System, as well as a new, slower way to fuel up the 32-story booster at Pad 389A of the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. If all goes well, NASA make its third attempt to launch the Artemis 1 SLS rocket to the moon on Sept. 27 after two false starts in recent weeks.
Yes Stash.

I am clearly the product of castrated machine learning.

You are quite obviously, human.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2022, 06:13:46 AM »
Dragon Crew launches a few days after and it takes priority. So if SLS does not launch on the 27th, its unlikely they will be able to launch again without rolling back.

And FTS is still not authorized for launch. I think NASA is just trying to get ready hoping it gets authorisation. Unfortunately, they dont pay the range safety officers.

So lots of things need to go right, lets see if it works this time round.

I do wonder if people start losing interest with all the scrubs. Will be interesting to compare the viewer count on NASA's live feeds for the different attempts.

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Crouton

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2022, 08:54:47 AM »
Maybe it's my imagination but I'm under the impression that a lot of missions get bumped for a variety of reasons.
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2022, 03:45:03 AM »
Maybe it's my imagination but I'm under the impression that a lot of missions get bumped for a variety of reasons.
Missions do get bumped all the time.
But a crewed launch usually has first priority no matter what else is happening. So in this case, SLS will get bumped to a new date if it starts getting to close to the crewed launch.

Boeings Starliner has been bumped many times, usually because there is crewed activity. But also because the keep finding new issues with starliner.
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Heiwa

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2022, 05:19:47 AM »
Maybe it's my imagination but I'm under the impression that a lot of missions get bumped for a variety of reasons.
Missions do get bumped all the time.
But a crewed launch usually has first priority no matter what else is happening. So in this case, SLS will get bumped to a new date if it starts getting to close to the crewed launch.

Boeings Starliner has been bumped many times, usually because there is crewed activity. But also because the keep finding new issues with starliner.
Why is it necessary to put crew in the SLS at all? What shall the crew do aboard?

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2022, 08:49:07 AM »
Why is it necessary to put crew in the SLS at all? What shall the crew do aboard?
No crew in this one buddy. You can relax.

So they are running a fuel testing today, seems this rocket is super leaky as its leaking again, just "within tolerances". So will see how it turns out.
Turns out dealing with liquid hydrogen is hard, you'd think they would have learnt this with the Space Shuttle.
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Heiwa

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2022, 09:31:47 AM »
Why is it necessary to put crew in the SLS at all? What shall the crew do aboard?
No crew in this one buddy. You can relax.

So they are running a fuel testing today, seems this rocket is super leaky as its leaking again, just "within tolerances". So will see how it turns out.
Turns out dealing with liquid hydrogen is hard, you'd think they would have learnt this with the Space Shuttle.
I know it is unmanned. It is a one-way trip. And I was just an expert on leaking oil tankers at sea in the past and became rich due to it. Are you rich? You sound poor!

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Stash

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2022, 11:59:38 AM »
Why is it necessary to put crew in the SLS at all? What shall the crew do aboard?
No crew in this one buddy. You can relax.

So they are running a fuel testing today, seems this rocket is super leaky as its leaking again, just "within tolerances". So will see how it turns out.
Turns out dealing with liquid hydrogen is hard, you'd think they would have learnt this with the Space Shuttle.
I know it is unmanned. It is a one-way trip. And I was just an expert on leaking oil tankers at sea in the past and became rich due to it. Are you rich? You sound poor!

Actually, it's a round trip, at least for the unmanned crew module.

Yes Stash.

I am clearly the product of castrated machine learning.

You are quite obviously, human.

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markjo

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2022, 03:49:26 PM »
And I was just an expert on leaking oil tankers at sea in the past and became rich due to it.
What do leaking oil tankers have to do with leaking liquid hydrogen tanks?

Are you rich? You sound poor!
Are you stupid?  You sound stupid!
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2022, 09:49:06 AM »
I know it is unmanned. It is a one-way trip. And I was just an expert on leaking oil tankers at sea in the past and became rich due to it. Are you rich? You sound poor!
The fact that you think there is any comparison to oil and liquid hydrogen says enough about your knowledge on the matter.

And I'm not poor, I'm doing pretty well actually. But I don't place my identity on how well off I am.

Thats something you tend to do. After all these years on earth, a person would have thought you would have resolved all those daddy issues by now.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2022, 05:01:42 AM »
So looks likely that they will have to roll the SLS back to avoid the storm. If they do, launch date will then move to sometime October to November.
This rocket likes to take its time
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Heiwa

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2022, 08:27:27 PM »
Why is it necessary to put crew in the SLS at all? What shall the crew do aboard?
No crew in this one buddy. You can relax.

So they are running a fuel testing today, seems this rocket is super leaky as its leaking again, just "within tolerances". So will see how it turns out.
Turns out dealing with liquid hydrogen is hard, you'd think they would have learnt this with the Space Shuttle.
I know it is unmanned. It is a one-way trip. And I was just an expert on leaking oil tankers at sea in the past and became rich due to it. Are you rich? You sound poor!

Actually, it's a round trip, at least for the unmanned crew module.


looks like http://heiwaco.com/moontravel1.htm

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Crouton

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2022, 10:39:21 PM »
A friggin hurricane?  I can't get too upset at this scrub.
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Stash

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2022, 12:45:07 PM »
I stumbled across this video where the guy talks a lot about the engines (I think the same ones used for the SLS) showing the "Engineering" cameras close-up footage (60mm film, which is close to IMAX's 70mm) of a shuttle launch and goes through the T-Minus 10 sequence step by step, especially all the "valve sequences" - An absolute engineering marvel!

Yes Stash.

I am clearly the product of castrated machine learning.

You are quite obviously, human.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2022, 12:11:39 AM »
I stumbled across this video where the guy talks a lot about the engines (I think the same ones used for the SLS) showing the "Engineering" cameras close-up footage (60mm film, which is close to IMAX's 70mm) of a shuttle launch and goes through the T-Minus 10 sequence step by step, especially all the "valve sequences" - An absolute engineering marvel!


You found the Famous Scott Manley!

SLS engines where a marvel, but they are stupidly expensive.
$174m per engine. Its a real shame they are going to dump these in the ocean.
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Stash

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2022, 10:44:43 AM »
I stumbled across this video where the guy talks a lot about the engines (I think the same ones used for the SLS) showing the "Engineering" cameras close-up footage (60mm film, which is close to IMAX's 70mm) of a shuttle launch and goes through the T-Minus 10 sequence step by step, especially all the "valve sequences" - An absolute engineering marvel!


You found the Famous Scott Manley!

SLS engines where a marvel, but they are stupidly expensive.
$174m per engine. Its a real shame they are going to dump these in the ocean.

Yeah, I've been subbed to him for a while. He has great stuff.

And yeah, I wish there was a re-useable way of keeping those things. They're gonna end up looking like this:

Yes Stash.

I am clearly the product of castrated machine learning.

You are quite obviously, human.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2022, 11:00:19 AM »
NASA really likes waste.
Rabinoz RIP

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2022, 08:45:48 AM »
NASA really likes waste.
Governments.

Its never their money, its yours.
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Crouton

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2022, 10:01:03 AM »
Pretty much.  NASA especially.  This perverse constraint they have to simultaneously act as a jobs program while also acting as a space exploration enterprise has got to make it way more expensive than it should be.
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: SLS launches in 4 days
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2022, 11:37:48 AM »
This actually has nothing to do with SLS, but its about space and still cool.

As of me posting this, there are 14 people in space. The most there has ever been at one time



7 crew aboard the ISS
4 crew aboard the Crew Dragon
3 crew aboard the Tiangong Space Station
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat