Why are flat earthers so dishonest?

  • 378 Replies
  • 63826 Views
*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #180 on: October 15, 2022, 05:12:34 AM »
They can’t all be right.
But that doesn't mean they are all wrong.

Could you explain how you know that they are all wrong.

I simply said none of them are right as current evidence suggests that nothing concrete is know about post life. If that’s the case then none can be correct.
Again, no it isn't. That isn't how it works.

If you don't know, then you don't know if they are right or wrong.

Again, consider the dice example.
Nothing concrete is known about which face is up.
We have 6 people all saying 6 different things.

According to your claim there, that means that they must all be wrong.
So if all 6 are wrong, what face is up?

If the mechanism that creates conciseness, that’s assuming there is one, from inanimate matter is not known or understood how can someone or organisation proclaim they know what happens when the inanimate matter that housed this  conciseness no longer functions.
If it isn't known, how can you or anyone else claim that someone else is wrong?

What you appear to be suggesting is this.
No, I seem to be understanding quite well and clearly demonstrating why you are wrong.

If enough people guess or make a stab in the dark about a particular unknown situation there is a chance that one may be correct by chance.
So if enough religious people guess or make a stab in the dark about a particular unknown situation (e.g. what happens after you die), there is a chance that one may be correct by chance?
Directly contradicting your prior claims that they are wrong.

What I’m suggesting is based on the fact that no one currently has any idea about the nature of the post death situation.
What you are suggesting goes directly against that fact.
You are acting like you know, as how else could you know they are wrong?

As you appear to be suggesting that one of them had a chance of being correct can you explain why you think that is the case. Can you also explain how that religion you are suggesting knows the answer arrived at it.
Again with the strawmen.
In my last post I explicitly pointed out the difference between being right and knowing.
Even if one of the religions were correct, that doesn't mean that they know rather than simply believe.

Just like in the dice example, just because one of the 6th people is right, that doesn't mean they know they are right.

I am saying because we don't know, there is the possibility (i.e. the chance) that at least one claim about what happens in an afterlife is correct.
That isn't me saying they are correct. That isn't me saying that they know. That is simply me saying there isn't enough information to determine if they are right or wrong.
This is in contrast to you who claims they are wrong.

Unless you know what happens, you cannot know that they are wrong.

It’s not me saying no one know what happens after death it’s the generally held current scientific stance. No one knows.

If no one knows for sure, then anyone proposing an answer is just having a stab in the dark. If that’s the case…

Can you explain which one of those stabs in the dark is right and why?

Can you also explain how they arrived at their answer?

It’s odd how you imagine that any of them could possibly be correct when it is generally agreed that no one currently understands what happens post life and no one understands what even constitutes life in the first place or how it came about! Let alone what happens when, whatever it is ends.

And you claim via the roll of a mythical n sided die that some religion  just has to be right.

While it may be the case that an infinite group of chimps given an infinite amount of time, typewriters  and paper could produce the works of Shakespeare! it’s  a far cry from one of 3000 religions being correct about a subject that is generally considered unknowable.

If post life is considered unknowable what makes you imagine someone knows the answer regardless of how many times you roll your dice.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2022, 06:19:30 AM by Timeisup »
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • +2/-2
  • I am car!
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #181 on: October 15, 2022, 01:14:40 PM »
You appear to suggest that sone religious types must fit have a chance of being right. How about you explain how they are right.

Lighten up Francis...

JB: "My point is that your claim that they are almost certainly wrong is just as baseless as their claims."

Do you not get the logic?

You actually think you have presented a statement that had logic behind it!

Think again.

Yes, I do. It's really quite simple and I don't understand why you don't get it.

No one knows what happens after you die. No one.

So to say that someone else is wrong must mean that YOU know what happens after you die. You don't.

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #182 on: October 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM »
It’s not me saying no one know what happens after death
Try reading what I say and responding to that, rather than just responding to what you want me to have said.
I'm not saying that someone knows.

I'm objecting to your claim that they are all wrong.
But even after that is explained repeatedly, you still go on with your strawman, again asking me to tell you which one is right and why and so on.

It’s odd how you imagine that any of them could possibly be correct when it is generally agreed that no one currently understands what happens post life and no one understands what even constitutes life in the first place or how it came about!
No, what is odd is how you imagine they must be all be wrong, when you admit you have no idea.

Because we don't know, we don't know that they are wrong.

And you claim via the roll of a mythical n sided die that some religion  just has to be right.
And another lie. Where did I claim that they had to be right?
You sure do love your false dichotomies.
It isn't a case of one must be right, or we must know that all are wrong.
Instead there is the option that one COULD be right, possibly even several if they aren't mutually contradictory, while also leaving the chance that all are wrong.
That is a third option you continue to ignore.


And no, rather than going to an n sided dice, lets stick to the 6 sided dice to illustrate why your claim that they are wrong is nonsense.

Again, 6 people, they have all said a different integer from the range [1,6].
I am saying one of them is correct (I will complete the analogy later, the distinction here is that all possibilities are exhausted).
You are saying that they don't know, no one knows, and that means that their claim is nothing more than a stab in the dark and is almost certainly wrong.
When I point out that because no one knows, that means you don't know if they are wrong, you respond by asking me to tell you which one is correct and how they know.

But I never claimed they know. Instead I just said one of them is correct. I didn't say which one is correct, nor did I say that they knew, I just said that one of them is correct.
Us not knowing what the result is means we don't know if each individually is right or wrong. That means we can't say that they are wrong, unless you want to just be taking a stab in the dark.
But in this case, as the possibilities are exhausted, we can know that one is correct. We don't know which one, and they don't know that it is the side they claim, but we know that 1 is correct.

To further illustrate this point, lets cut it down to 5 people.
So now we have 5 people saying different integers in the range [1,5].
Now when you claim that they are all wrong, you are in effect claiming that the result must be 6. You claiming they are wrong is just as much a stab in the dark.
Even if there is only 1 making a claim about the side, while you would be correct to say they don't know, you would be taking a stab to claim they are wrong.

If post life is considered unknowable what makes you imagine someone knows the answer regardless of how many times you roll your dice.
Again, I DON'T. Stop with the strawmen.
What makes you imagine that you know they are all wrong?

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #183 on: October 16, 2022, 12:28:30 AM »
You appear to suggest that sone religious types must fit have a chance of being right. How about you explain how they are right.

Lighten up Francis...

JB: "My point is that your claim that they are almost certainly wrong is just as baseless as their claims."

Do you not get the logic?

You actually think you have presented a statement that had logic behind it!

Think again.

Yes, I do. It's really quite simple and I don't understand why you don't get it.

No one knows what happens after you die. No one.

So to say that someone else is wrong must mean that YOU know what happens after you die. You don't.

Well I’m glad we agree on that.

Of course no one knows what happens to the ‘self’ once the body dies. It’s one of these questions that remains unanswered.

Religions as is there want try to provide answers for their believers as that’s what they do. They have no special insights or methods to discover the truth in regard to death or anything else that requires a scientific explanation, how can they? Rather than just say they don’t know  they create a story that fits with their overall collection of beliefs that their believers will accept. This is what religions do. Facts and evidence are not required all they need is a  a good story.

Science and religion have often been at odds when it comes to issues where science has made discoveries that cast doubt on religious dogma. The most famous being  Galileo Galilei. In that particular situation the Catholic Church had concocted a story lnot based on facts or evidence but had created a story that suited their own beliefs. The same is true for any religious explanation of death and it’s aftermath.  As science has made no inroads on the subject of death religion is free to make up whatever stories suits them.

If you or anyone else thinks one of the many religions has stumbled on the truth, which is it and how did they both discover it and how do YOU know it’s the true version?

"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #184 on: October 16, 2022, 12:32:35 AM »
Rather than just say they don’t know  they create a story that fits with their overall collection of beliefs that their believers will accept.
And rather than just accepting that they don't know, you go a step further and assert they are wrong, ending up just as bad as them.

If you or anyone else thinks one of the many religions has stumbled on the truth, which is it and how did they both discover it and how do YOU know it’s the true version?
If you or anyone else thinks that every single religion is wrong when it comes to what happens to oneself after death, tell us how you know this and what is the true version.

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #185 on: October 16, 2022, 12:40:09 AM »
It’s not me saying no one know what happens after death
Try reading what I say and responding to that, rather than just responding to what you want me to have said.
I'm not saying that someone knows.

I'm objecting to your claim that they are all wrong.
But even after that is explained repeatedly, you still go on with your strawman, again asking me to tell you which one is right and why and so on.

It’s odd how you imagine that any of them could possibly be correct when it is generally agreed that no one currently understands what happens post life and no one understands what even constitutes life in the first place or how it came about!
No, what is odd is how you imagine they must be all be wrong, when you admit you have no idea.

Because we don't know, we don't know that they are wrong.

And you claim via the roll of a mythical n sided die that some religion  just has to be right.
And another lie. Where did I claim that they had to be right?
You sure do love your false dichotomies.
It isn't a case of one must be right, or we must know that all are wrong.
Instead there is the option that one COULD be right, possibly even several if they aren't mutually contradictory, while also leaving the chance that all are wrong.
That is a third option you continue to ignore.


And no, rather than going to an n sided dice, lets stick to the 6 sided dice to illustrate why your claim that they are wrong is nonsense.

Again, 6 people, they have all said a different integer from the range [1,6].
I am saying one of them is correct (I will complete the analogy later, the distinction here is that all possibilities are exhausted).
You are saying that they don't know, no one knows, and that means that their claim is nothing more than a stab in the dark and is almost certainly wrong.
When I point out that because no one knows, that means you don't know if they are wrong, you respond by asking me to tell you which one is correct and how they know.

But I never claimed they know. Instead I just said one of them is correct. I didn't say which one is correct, nor did I say that they knew, I just said that one of them is correct.
Us not knowing what the result is means we don't know if each individually is right or wrong. That means we can't say that they are wrong, unless you want to just be taking a stab in the dark.
But in this case, as the possibilities are exhausted, we can know that one is correct. We don't know which one, and they don't know that it is the side they claim, but we know that 1 is correct.

To further illustrate this point, lets cut it down to 5 people.
So now we have 5 people saying different integers in the range [1,5].
Now when you claim that they are all wrong, you are in effect claiming that the result must be 6. You claiming they are wrong is just as much a stab in the dark.
Even if there is only 1 making a claim about the side, while you would be correct to say they don't know, you would be taking a stab to claim they are wrong.

If post life is considered unknowable what makes you imagine someone knows the answer regardless of how many times you roll your dice.
Again, I DON'T. Stop with the strawmen.
What makes you imagine that you know they are all wrong?

What makes you imagine any of them are right?

"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #186 on: October 16, 2022, 12:46:24 AM »
Rather than just say they don’t know  they create a story that fits with their overall collection of beliefs that their believers will accept.
And rather than just accepting that they don't know, you go a step further and assert they are wrong, ending up just as bad as them.

If you or anyone else thinks one of the many religions has stumbled on the truth, which is it and how did they both discover it and how do YOU know it’s the true version?
If you or anyone else thinks that every single religion is wrong when it comes to what happens to oneself after death, tell us how you know this and what is the true version.

If you think one of them is right then say which one, and explain why.

I believe there is a race of burrowing worms that have evolved to live on Mars.
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2022, 01:03:36 AM »
What makes you imagine any of them are right?
What makes you imagine that I think that one of them is right?
Or are you referring to the 6 sided dice example?
If so, there are only 6 options, and they each pick a different one. So one must be right.


What makes you imagine that they are all wrong?

If you think one of them is right then say which one, and explain why.
If you think they are all wrong, then explain why. Stop strawmanning my position.

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #188 on: October 16, 2022, 03:22:45 AM »
What makes you imagine any of them are right?
What makes you imagine that I think that one of them is right?
Or are you referring to the 6 sided dice example?
If so, there are only 6 options, and they each pick a different one. So one must be right.


What makes you imagine that they are all wrong?

If you think one of them is right then say which one, and explain why.
If you think they are all wrong, then explain why. Stop strawmanning my position.

This is the basic problem Jack.

Normally to determine the truth of something or as near to the truth as we can get we need to rely on facts and evidence.

On the subject of what happens after death the current scientific position is, we don’t know. It’s an unknown.

If that is indeed the case then religions, who don’t operate on facts but favour  blind belief really have little to say on the matter that could be considered factual or evidenced based.

You on the other hand with no evidence save the mythical rolling of a mythical die are suggesting that one religion out there knows the truth. You don’t know which one it is and you can’t  offer a single shred of evidence yet you choose to stick to a position that comes down to no more than blind belief.

Well Jack you are welcome to your rolling dice and  blind belief  but I think I’ll stick to my facts and evidence.

Tell you what why don’t  you write a piece on what you believe for Scientific American see what they say. They might even find your dice rolling amusing!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-happens-to-consciousness-when-we-die/
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • +2/-2
  • I am car!
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #189 on: October 16, 2022, 03:23:01 AM »
You appear to suggest that sone religious types must fit have a chance of being right. How about you explain how they are right.

Lighten up Francis...

JB: "My point is that your claim that they are almost certainly wrong is just as baseless as their claims."

Do you not get the logic?

You actually think you have presented a statement that had logic behind it!

Think again.

Yes, I do. It's really quite simple and I don't understand why you don't get it.

No one knows what happens after you die. No one.

So to say that someone else is wrong must mean that YOU know what happens after you die. You don't.

Well I’m glad we agree on that.

Of course no one knows what happens to the ‘self’ once the body dies. It’s one of these questions that remains unanswered.

Religions as is there want try to provide answers for their believers as that’s what they do. They have no special insights or methods to discover the truth in regard to death or anything else that requires a scientific explanation, how can they? Rather than just say they don’t know  they create a story that fits with their overall collection of beliefs that their believers will accept. This is what religions do. Facts and evidence are not required all they need is a  a good story.

Science and religion have often been at odds when it comes to issues where science has made discoveries that cast doubt on religious dogma. The most famous being  Galileo Galilei. In that particular situation the Catholic Church had concocted a story lnot based on facts or evidence but had created a story that suited their own beliefs. The same is true for any religious explanation of death and it’s aftermath.  As science has made no inroads on the subject of death religion is free to make up whatever stories suits them.

If you or anyone else thinks one of the many religions has stumbled on the truth, which is it and how did they both discover it and how do YOU know it’s the true version?

So what? Literally no one here is saying they know what happens when you die. Religion doesn’t have an answer nor does science. So what’s your issue with all this? That religious people believe they go to heaven? Good for them, who cares?

The point is, they may be right or they may be wrong and literally no one can say they are wrong or right from a practical standpoint. It’s really that simple.

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #190 on: October 16, 2022, 03:27:16 AM »
What makes you imagine any of them are right?
What makes you imagine that I think that one of them is right?
Or are you referring to the 6 sided dice example?
If so, there are only 6 options, and they each pick a different one. So one must be right.


What makes you imagine that they are all wrong?

If you think one of them is right then say which one, and explain why.
If you think they are all wrong, then explain why. Stop strawmanning my position.

By the way Jack if you want to argue that the answer to anything unknown can be determined by the roll of a die then good for you.

I’m just off to commune with my Martian sand burrowing worms.

What’s interesting I threw a dice to determine if they existed, and you know what!

As they say dice can’t lie.

By the way the talking burrowing Martian worms say hello.
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • +2/-2
  • I am car!
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #191 on: October 16, 2022, 03:35:05 AM »
What makes you imagine any of them are right?
What makes you imagine that I think that one of them is right?
Or are you referring to the 6 sided dice example?
If so, there are only 6 options, and they each pick a different one. So one must be right.


What makes you imagine that they are all wrong?

If you think one of them is right then say which one, and explain why.
If you think they are all wrong, then explain why. Stop strawmanning my position.

By the way Jack if you want to argue that the answer to anything unknown can be determined by the roll of a die then good for you.

I’m just off to commune with my Martian sand burrowing worms.

What’s interesting I threw a dice to determine if they existed, and you know what!

As they say dice can’t lie.

By the way the talking burrowing Martian worms say hello.

You’re literally making up arguments that don’t exist.

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #192 on: October 16, 2022, 03:44:58 AM »
This is the basic problem Jack.
The basic problem is you not liking something so you lash out, in this case dismissing it as wrong, when you don't know.
The big problem which ties into that is you not liking being wrong, so you continually deflect and strawman.

On the subject of what happens after death the current scientific position is, we don’t know. It’s an unknown.
Yet instead of just accepting that, you instead assert that the religions are all wrong.

You on the other hand with no evidence save the mythical rolling of a mythical die are suggesting that one religion out there knows the truth.
You sure do love your strawmanning and lying don't you?
Where did I suggest that?
Again, can you provide a quote, or can you only present so you desperately want me to have said so you can attack that instead of what I actually said?

The only time that comes close is the example of a 6 sided dice, where we KNOW at least one of the 6 people must be right.

Again, I am not saying that one of them is right.
I am saying that your claim that they are all wrong is just as much speculation as their claim.

If you don't know then you can't know that they are wrong.

yet you choose to stick to a position that comes down to no more than blind belief.
No, I stick to a position of rational thought.
You blatantly lie about that, setting up strawmen where your strawman's position is blind belief.
But that strawman is not me. It is your own invention.

By the way Jack if you want to argue that the answer to anything unknown can be determined by the roll of a die then good for you.
And more pathetic strawmanning. Just where have I ever suggested anything like that?

Yet again, because you can't refute what I have actually said, you just make up pure garbage to attack instead.

*

Smoke Machine

  • 3975
  • +19/-20
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #193 on: October 16, 2022, 07:26:14 AM »

Your irritated. Well good for you.

As I said and if you had been paying attention, no one knows. Hence the name given to it:-
The hard problem or the hard question.

It’s hard because no one as yet has come up with an answer to definitively explain what conciseness is and what gives rise to it. How a collection of non thinking atoms when arranged into a human being can suddenly think and become aware of themselves and the world. It’s also not know what happens to this conciseness when the biological system that may or may not have given rise to it ceases to exist.

These are the current known facts that you may or may not like, or even be irritated by. Your choice.

The other fact is I’m NOT saying I know, I’m saying I dont know and neither does anyone else. Though if you do know I’m sure there is a Nobel with your name on it.

The fact that you are irritated by this situation is your choice. No one other than yourself is making you irritated.

The issue hangs on the fact that no one knows. Religions that have attempted to offer answers have given no more than opinions based on nothing more than what suits their beliefs and amounts to no more than fairy stories.

If you in your irritated state think otherwise then go ahead and produce your evidence something no one, to date, has been able to do.

If science is not good enough for you where are you going to get your information from. Once you have decided what you like how are you going to determine if it’s correct?
Use your feelings?

Tiemeup, I'm not irritated by the situation of death and who knows or who doesn't know what happens when you die. I was irritated because I was recovering from an adrenaline dump while on night shift and was irritable.

You keep saying that science can't definitively answer the hard question, but you haven't stopped to ask what science can answer.

Some people are qualified to answer the question of what happens to your consciousness when you die. Do you know who these people are?

People who have been pronounced clinically dead for minutes and dare I say hours, and are revived. You know - clinically dead where all brain activity has ceased - yet the consciousness of the person is continuing to be conscious........... These people are living examples of life after death.

These cases exist, Tiemeup. These cases are the evidence you keep saying doesn't exist. The information provided by the person when revived, may be anecdotal, but sometimes these people can relate accurately what the doctor did to their body while they were dead - from a viewpoint outside their body. You don't like to hear that, do you?

You may find this irritating, but I don't have to make this up. There are well documented cases. If you choose to consider the experiences of those people to be lucky, or just made up, well that's a matter for yourself. Maybe this is evidence you casually dismiss and discard because it doesn't fit with your world view? 

Also, there are thousands of case studies of children being born who when old enough to talk, relate they have clear memories of living before as different people, before that person died. There are well documented cases where the information of the previous life the child relates, is highly accurate and well beyond what they could have guessed or known. Again, science doesn't have the tools at present to test and reliably confirm how a child could do this, so science just shrugs it's shoulders.

You say there is no evidence to bring to the table to substantiate the possibility of consciousness surviving death, and I've just provided two mountains of evidence.

Religions all contain a thread of truth in that they all agree that consciousness survives death or can survive death. But that's where what they agree on happening after death, ends.
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2022, 08:05:13 AM »
This is the basic problem Jack.
The basic problem is you not liking something so you lash out, in this case dismissing it as wrong, when you don't know.
The big problem which ties into that is you not liking being wrong, so you continually deflect and strawman.

On the subject of what happens after death the current scientific position is, we don’t know. It’s an unknown.
Yet instead of just accepting that, you instead assert that the religions are all wrong.

You on the other hand with no evidence save the mythical rolling of a mythical die are suggesting that one religion out there knows the truth.
You sure do love your strawmanning and lying don't you?
Where did I suggest that?
Again, can you provide a quote, or can you only present so you desperately want me to have said so you can attack that instead of what I actually said?

The only time that comes close is the example of a 6 sided dice, where we KNOW at least one of the 6 people must be right.

Again, I am not saying that one of them is right.
I am saying that your claim that they are all wrong is just as much speculation as their claim.

If you don't know then you can't know that they are wrong.

yet you choose to stick to a position that comes down to no more than blind belief.
No, I stick to a position of rational thought.
You blatantly lie about that, setting up strawmen where your strawman's position is blind belief.
But that strawman is not me. It is your own invention.

By the way Jack if you want to argue that the answer to anything unknown can be determined by the roll of a die then good for you.
And more pathetic strawmanning. Just where have I ever suggested anything like that?

Yet again, because you can't refute what I have actually said, you just make up pure garbage to attack instead.


You keep avoiding answering why is that Jack?

You say, according to your anti-science dice theory that one must be right, so which one is it?
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #195 on: October 16, 2022, 08:24:11 AM »

Your irritated. Well good for you.

As I said and if you had been paying attention, no one knows. Hence the name given to it:-
The hard problem or the hard question.

It’s hard because no one as yet has come up with an answer to definitively explain what conciseness is and what gives rise to it. How a collection of non thinking atoms when arranged into a human being can suddenly think and become aware of themselves and the world. It’s also not know what happens to this conciseness when the biological system that may or may not have given rise to it ceases to exist.

These are the current known facts that you may or may not like, or even be irritated by. Your choice.

The other fact is I’m NOT saying I know, I’m saying I dont know and neither does anyone else. Though if you do know I’m sure there is a Nobel with your name on it.

The fact that you are irritated by this situation is your choice. No one other than yourself is making you irritated.

The issue hangs on the fact that no one knows. Religions that have attempted to offer answers have given no more than opinions based on nothing more than what suits their beliefs and amounts to no more than fairy stories.

If you in your irritated state think otherwise then go ahead and produce your evidence something no one, to date, has been able to do.

If science is not good enough for you where are you going to get your information from. Once you have decided what you like how are you going to determine if it’s correct?
Use your feelings?

Tiemeup, I'm not irritated by the situation of death and who knows or who doesn't know what happens when you die. I was irritated because I was recovering from an adrenaline dump while on night shift and was irritable.

You keep saying that science can't definitively answer the hard question, but you haven't stopped to ask what science can answer.

Some people are qualified to answer the question of what happens to your consciousness when you die. Do you know who these people are?

People who have been pronounced clinically dead for minutes and dare I say hours, and are revived. You know - clinically dead where all brain activity has ceased - yet the consciousness of the person is continuing to be conscious........... These people are living examples of life after death.

These cases exist, Tiemeup. These cases are the evidence you keep saying doesn't exist. The information provided by the person when revived, may be anecdotal, but sometimes these people can relate accurately what the doctor did to their body while they were dead - from a viewpoint outside their body. You don't like to hear that, do you?

You may find this irritating, but I don't have to make this up. There are well documented cases. If you choose to consider the experiences of those people to be lucky, or just made up, well that's a matter for yourself. Maybe this is evidence you casually dismiss and discard because it doesn't fit with your world view? 

Also, there are thousands of case studies of children being born who when old enough to talk, relate they have clear memories of living before as different people, before that person died. There are well documented cases where the information of the previous life the child relates, is highly accurate and well beyond what they could have guessed or known. Again, science doesn't have the tools at present to test and reliably confirm how a child could do this, so science just shrugs it's shoulders.

You say there is no evidence to bring to the table to substantiate the possibility of consciousness surviving death, and I've just provided two mountains of evidence.

Religions all contain a thread of truth in that they all agree that consciousness survives death or can survive death. But that's where what they agree on happening after death, ends.

You are at liberty to believe in what ever 'highly accurate' stories you want, what ever highly accurate means.

If you want to believe that all religions contain threads of truth then go for it. Belief is free.

Though I have to shake my head in disbelief when someone trots that one out. Religion has never been about truth it's about belief and what people will be prepared to accept. This is where a historical perspective is helpful where it puts the religion and the development of its beliefs into context.

All 3000 or more religions cant all be true! If one is true, which I very much doubt, then the other 2999 must be telling porky pies. I go for all 3000 telling porky pies.

As for believing in anecdotal stories about near death experiences or people remembering past lives, all I can say is rather you than me. Though I hear those kinds of stories are very popular with certain news media outlets.





"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #196 on: October 16, 2022, 12:52:13 PM »
You keep avoiding answering why is that Jack?
You set up the strawman, so you can have your strawman answer.

I am under no obligation to answer your questions which are blatant misrepresentation of my position.

You say, according to your anti-science dice theory that one must be right, so which one is it?
No, I don't.
Stop lying.
Stop strawmanning my position.
Start reading what I have said and try actually responding to that.

If you want to claim I say something, then prove it. Provide a direct of where I have.
If you can't do that, then stop lying and accusing me of saying things I haven't.


Again, the dice analogy with the 6 people was to leave no doubt that one of them was right.
To show just how illogical your position is.
I pointed out that with religion we don't know if any of them of right, but that also means we don't know if they are wrong.
While we can say that if they are mutually contradictory they can't both be right, that doesn't mean that both are wrong.

Again, this is not a difficult concept to understand.
Yet you continue to misrepresent my position to avoid answering how you know they are all wrong.


So again, if you don't know what happens after death, how do you know all the religions are wrong about what happens?

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #197 on: October 16, 2022, 01:17:06 PM »
From my perspective this thread reeks of the dishonesty mentioned at the outset.

Religions regardless of flavour have little or nothing to say of value when it comes to matters that can only be  determined by a scientific approach.

Let’s remember the majority  of the doctrine that underpins most of the mainstream religions was written many hundreds of years before the birth of science.

When it comes to concepts that can only really be determined by a scientific approach religion has little if nothing to contribute as so out of date and irrelevant are its views. Though those of a religious persuasion would obviously say otherwise, but that is to be expected as belief is a heady reactionary concoction.

On the issue of matters post death the current scientific stance is quite clear in regard to it being one of the great unknowns. Rolling any number of dice you care to toss won’t change that.

It should not be a given that any god actually exists. Though which one to choose from the 3000 plus proposed!  It could be argued that the concept of god is just one of the many human constructs that human kind has conjured up over the ages.

I choose to believe regardless of how many dice you wish to roll that no god of any flavour actually exists and that religion has nothing meaningful to say about anything that requires a more scientific approach to find an answer.

If we are going to survive the answers are not going to be supplied by any religion that’s for sure, it’s only through science and it’s application that we will have any chance of a future.


 


"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #198 on: October 16, 2022, 01:29:03 PM »
Some people are qualified to answer the question of what happens to your consciousness when you die. Do you know who these people are?
Pretty much no one.
Being pronounced clinically dead doesn't mean much these days.
All it requires is cessation of blood flow and breathing.
It doesn't mean brain activity has stopped.
So this doesn't show that consciousness can survive death in a meaningful way.

And as it still requires the people to be alive, even if it does survive death, it doesn't show that consciousness can exist without a body.

These cases also suffer from severe reporting bias.
Ones which make an interesting story are repeated.
Ones which don't are ignored or dismissed.

Do you have an objective study trying to collect near death experiences/experiences while "clinically dead" from people without selection bias to just collect those "good" reports?
And do you have a link to the study?

Conversely, I also know of cases where brain damage significantly alters a person, including their personality. That would indicate that what makes the person is intrinsically tied to the brain, as opposed to some higher consciousness just controlling the body through the brain.

While I agree that there is a possibility of consciousness existing independent of a body, I don't think there is any significant evidence to support it.

The information provided by the person when revived, may be anecdotal, but sometimes these people can relate accurately what the doctor did to their body while they were dead - from a viewpoint outside their body.
Does it? Or is it just vague or common enough to match?
What did they person actually say? Was there any interaction between them and the doctors discussing what happened before they said this?

Also, there are thousands of case studies of children being born who when old enough to talk, relate they have clear memories of living before as different people, before that person died. There are well documented cases where the information of the previous life the child relates, is highly accurate and well beyond what they could have guessed or known.
And this suffers from the same issue.
You have selection bias of the good cases.
But even then, what did the child actually say?
What had they overhead before then?
How much of it is just trying to match it?

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #199 on: October 16, 2022, 01:31:05 PM »
From my perspective this thread reeks of the dishonesty mentioned at the outset.
Yes, it is a great example of how people so desperate to be right and better than everyone else (i.e. you), will be incredibly dishonest to avoid admission of a mistake.

On the issue of matters post death the current scientific stance is quite clear in regard to it being one of the great unknowns.
Yet you are happy to ignore all that and claim that all religions are wrong regarding it.

*

Smoke Machine

  • 3975
  • +19/-20
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #200 on: October 17, 2022, 09:14:06 AM »
Some people are qualified to answer the question of what happens to your consciousness when you die. Do you know who these people are?
Pretty much no one.
Being pronounced clinically dead doesn't mean much these days.
All it requires is cessation of blood flow and breathing.
It doesn't mean brain activity has stopped.
So this doesn't show that consciousness can survive death in a meaningful way.

And as it still requires the people to be alive, even if it does survive death, it doesn't show that consciousness can exist without a body.

These cases also suffer from severe reporting bias.
Ones which make an interesting story are repeated.
Ones which don't are ignored or dismissed.

Do you have an objective study trying to collect near death experiences/experiences while "clinically dead" from people without selection bias to just collect those "good" reports?
And do you have a link to the study?

Conversely, I also know of cases where brain damage significantly alters a person, including their personality. That would indicate that what makes the person is intrinsically tied to the brain, as opposed to some higher consciousness just controlling the body through the brain.

While I agree that there is a possibility of consciousness existing independent of a body, I don't think there is any significant evidence to support it.

The information provided by the person when revived, may be anecdotal, but sometimes these people can relate accurately what the doctor did to their body while they were dead - from a viewpoint outside their body.
Does it? Or is it just vague or common enough to match?
What did they person actually say? Was there any interaction between them and the doctors discussing what happened before they said this?

Also, there are thousands of case studies of children being born who when old enough to talk, relate they have clear memories of living before as different people, before that person died. There are well documented cases where the information of the previous life the child relates, is highly accurate and well beyond what they could have guessed or known.
And this suffers from the same issue.
You have selection bias of the good cases.
But even then, what did the child actually say?
What had they overhead before then?
How much of it is just trying to match it?

That's interesting, Jack.

You say being pronounced clinically dead doesn't really mean much these days. So what does it mean? There are two levels of being dead?

You're not necessarily wrong, and I expected Tiemeup and yourself to bring this up. But people have stories of dying on the operating table because doctors tell them later that they died. So, you're saying that clinically dead is an obsolete term that should be removed from our vocabulary? Clinical death is therefore reversible while biological death is irreversible and nobody has ever come back from that, with possible exception to Jesus.

What if clinical death is just another way of saying first stage dying? What if consciousness disengaging from the physical body occurs during clinical death, but like clinical death, is reversible? That would mean once the person enters biological death, that disengagement is permanent.

How do you know these reports of experiences and consciousness outside the body while clinically dead, suffer from severe reporting bias? Where's your evidence for that?

Again with the children recollecting experiences from past lives, you make an assumption there is selection bias and information provided by the child being tampered with or unreliable as to it's origins. Where's your evidence?

You're being lazy, Jack. Provide some examples of the reporting bias and selection bias in the literature I was referring to, if you can find any. Otherwise, it will be fair to say you were being dishonest when you said these things, or should I say, you were sprouting your opinion and misrepresenting your opinion as fact.

As for religion, instead of focussing on the differences, look for the common threads. They all talk of life after death, they all provide a map or path to live your life better, and they all refer to a higher power or being.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 10:07:29 AM by Smoke Machine »
For the overall shape of Earth to be flat, requires billions of people and billions of pieces of information about Earth to be wrong. Do the maths.

*

Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • +2/-2
  • I am car!
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #201 on: October 17, 2022, 09:44:11 AM »
It's all kinda speculative. Some phycologists and such have proffered that some "after life" experiences may be a result of almost a zeitgeist type of bias. In the sense of, hovering over oneself, heading toward the white light, etc., may be what is commonly expressed, not what actually happens. Or maybe it does. Who knows.

Now how that would apply to kids not necessarily exposed to those more common notions, idk.

I think the bottomline is that we do not know and pretty much have no way of, let's say, empirically, finding out.

As for Religions and afterlife as a commonality, it may be like many things, comfort, power, attempts to explain one of the greatest unknowns. Seems like death is kinda the top of the heap for all cultures. How to make sense of it is right up there too.

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #202 on: October 17, 2022, 01:58:13 PM »
You say being pronounced clinically dead doesn't really mean much these days. So what does it mean? There are two levels of being dead?
People are routinely made to be "clinically dead" during operations, and they don't even get a death certificate from it.

As for 2 levels, I'm not sure.
I would say a more appropriate definition is needed, especially if you want to view humanity as a machine like a computer.
With a computer we can happily turn it off and then turn it back on later. At what point would it be considered "dead"?
That would be when it can't start any more. But in some cases, even that can be repaired.

But the important point is that no one has been able to report an experience while they are dead. They can only report it while they are alive, and that raises the question of if they were really dead and if brain function had really ceased, and if that experience occurred while they were dead, or their brain just filled in the gaps.

with possible exception to Jesus.
Lets leave fantasy out of this.
If you want to include Jesus, you may as well include Harry Potter.

What if clinical death is just another way of saying first stage dying? What if consciousness disengaging from the physical body occurs during clinical death, but like clinical death, is reversible? That would mean once the person enters biological death, that disengagement is permanent.
You can speculate about a lot of things. But all that speculation does is call into question the evidence.
What if it isn't?
What if the consciousness doesn't disengage from the body at all until permanent death, at which point it ceases to exist?

How do you know these reports of experiences and consciousness outside the body while clinically dead, suffer from severe reporting bias?
Because unless you are conducting a study to actually discover them, you will naturally have reporting bias.
The less likely an occurrence, the more likely you are to suffer from reporting bias.
Which makes the better story, that someone was clinically dead on the operating table, but was revived without further complication and reported no out of body or near death experience; vs someone died on the operating table, left their body and observed the operation being performed on them.

If you are going based upon anecdotal accounts or reports in the news, there will almost always be reporting bias as they will pick the stories that they think are newsworthy of interesting or that will get them views.

The default is that there is reporting bias or selection bias. And when making a scientific study, you need to consider how you avoid that.

You're being lazy, Jack.
I would say what is being lazy is claiming that there are these reports and examples, without providing any.
So where are these reports/studies/examples?
How did they deal with reporting bias or selection bias?

in the literature I was referring to, if you can find any.
The issue is finding the literature you are referring to.

As for religion, instead of focussing on the differences, look for the common threads.
The differences are what demonstrate that they cannot all be true, that at least a large portion is invention and raises significant doubts about any being true.

The common threads are likely things which are obvious (for example, all involve humans, and humans exist), and things which people were craving at the time, or which were needed for the religion to work.

For example, most will have some kind of afterlife, because people feared death. This helps tie into the control, especially with religions like Christianity where obeying the evil tyrant gives you a "better" afterlife. But look at the afterlives you get. They are vastly different. Some have reincarnation. Some have a heaven and hell (or a heaven and annihilation), some just have swimming around in a pool.

Most will refer to a higher power or being, because why would you just obey some random, long dead person? By appealing to a higher being who allegedly created you or Earth, or even just one vastly more powerful than you, it provides an attempt at a reason to obey.
The "prophet" it isn't just saying "Hey I think you should do this." Instead it is saying "This god created you and is telling you to do this."
This also gives them an excuse for how they obtained this divine "knowledge" (including "knowledge" of the afterlife) and why you should obey/trust them, such as being hand picked by this higher power.

And of course they will claim it helps you live a better life. How many followers do you think they would get if they said it tells you how to live your life worse?

Look at all the people claiming Earth is flat, that 9/11 was an inside job, that the moon landings were fake, that free energy is real, and so on. How many of them share claims of a conspiracy that the government is trying to stop the truth from getting out? How many of them share claims that people have been killed by the government to stop that "truth" from getting out?

Does that mean we should believe there are actually conspiracies and the government is out hunting "normal" people, killing these people to stop the truth getting out?

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #203 on: October 17, 2022, 11:46:29 PM »
From my perspective this thread reeks of the dishonesty mentioned at the outset.
Yes, it is a great example of how people so desperate to be right and better than everyone else (i.e. you), will be incredibly dishonest to avoid admission of a mistake.

On the issue of matters post death the current scientific stance is quite clear in regard to it being one of the great unknowns.
Yet you are happy to ignore all that and claim that all religions are wrong regarding it.

When it comes to desperation and gagging to be right at any cost you are well out in front.

Your ploy, as always, is to ignore the facts presented, refuse to give any of your own and then  hide behind a barricade of Jack Black so called logic while yelling liar liar.

The truth is there have been over 3000 recorded religions or so  ‘they say’. I’ve personally not counted them, have you?

Religions have always been about belief and certainly not science nor truth.

Of course religions have a view on most things especially death as it’s around that particular event where their most elaborate ceremonies take place.

Do any religions know what happens after death….no. Do they have some explanation, yes. Is their explanations based on facts and evidence, no. Does science tell us what happens after death, no.

Does anyone have definitive evidence, a resounding no.

You can use all the clap trap logic you want while avoiding the facts and presenting none. No one knows what happens post death other than the physical presence of that individual ceases to exist. As to what happens to their inner self that is unknown.

In reality not much if anything is known about what generates or produces our inner self in the first place, and certainly nothing is known of its fate once the physical container of the body is no more.

You can call upon as many crank beliefs and whacky logic as you like, call me a liar, but it does not change the hard facts of the matter. No one not even you knows what happens after death.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 11:51:50 PM by Timeisup »
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #204 on: October 17, 2022, 11:48:54 PM »
From my perspective this thread reeks of the dishonesty mentioned at the outset.
Yes, it is a great example of how people so desperate to be right and better than everyone else (i.e. you), will be incredibly dishonest to avoid admission of a mistake.

On the issue of matters post death the current scientific stance is quite clear in regard to it being one of the great unknowns.
Yet you are happy to ignore all that and claim that all religions are wrong regarding it.

So Jack which religions are right? And what’s your evidence for saying that?
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

JackBlack

  • 26157
  • +51/-79
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #205 on: October 18, 2022, 01:23:53 AM »
When it comes to desperation and gagging to be right at any cost you are well out in front.
It would be impossible to compete with you on that.

Your ploy, as always, is to ignore the facts presented
No, my "ploy" is to call out BS when I see it, and then point out when you blatantly misrepresent my position to avoid accepting that you were spouting BS.

Your ploy is to spout pure BS, then when called out on it, invent strawmen to attack, repeatedly lying about what I have said, and deflect at all costs.
This thread is just another example of that.
This is what started it:
If a belief is based on no more than a whim or flight of fancy the chances of any of them being right are almost non existent as they are all based on…… zero facts and a ton of BS.
Making pronouncements as religions do about what’s waiting for it’s believers after death is total made up  BS. How could if not be?
I simply said none of them are right
Comments like those where you claim to know that religions are wrong.

But because you can't defend those claims, you resort to dishonest BS like this:
So Jack which religions are right? And what’s your evidence for saying that?

You entirely misrepresent my position because you can't actually argue against it.
You realise you screwed up and spouted BS which you cannot defend. But rather than admit that, you are happy to lie (or at the very least be incredibly dishonest) and blatantly misrepresent my position.

Where have I ever said that a religion is right?
NOWHERE!
But because you are so desperate to be right at all costs, you have to lie and pretend I did.

Notice that I can give quotes of where you say the things I state you have.
Conversely, you never provide quotes because you just fabricating what you claim I say.

Do any religions know what happens after death….no. Do they have some explanation, yes. Is their explanations based on facts and evidence, no. Does science tell us what happens after death, no.
Does anyone have enough evidence to conclusively determine religions are wrong about what happens after death? No!
Yet you are happy to pretend you know.

No one knows what happens post death
So again, how do you know all religions are wrong about what happens after death?

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #206 on: October 18, 2022, 05:06:32 AM »
When it comes to desperation and gagging to be right at any cost you are well out in front.
It would be impossible to compete with you on that.

Your ploy, as always, is to ignore the facts presented
No, my "ploy" is to call out BS when I see it, and then point out when you blatantly misrepresent my position to avoid accepting that you were spouting BS.

Your ploy is to spout pure BS, then when called out on it, invent strawmen to attack, repeatedly lying about what I have said, and deflect at all costs.
This thread is just another example of that.
This is what started it:
If a belief is based on no more than a whim or flight of fancy the chances of any of them being right are almost non existent as they are all based on…… zero facts and a ton of BS.
Making pronouncements as religions do about what’s waiting for it’s believers after death is total made up  BS. How could if not be?
I simply said none of them are right
Comments like those where you claim to know that religions are wrong.

But because you can't defend those claims, you resort to dishonest BS like this:
So Jack which religions are right? And what’s your evidence for saying that?

You entirely misrepresent my position because you can't actually argue against it.
You realise you screwed up and spouted BS which you cannot defend. But rather than admit that, you are happy to lie (or at the very least be incredibly dishonest) and blatantly misrepresent my position.

Where have I ever said that a religion is right?
NOWHERE!
But because you are so desperate to be right at all costs, you have to lie and pretend I did.

Notice that I can give quotes of where you say the things I state you have.
Conversely, you never provide quotes because you just fabricating what you claim I say.

Do any religions know what happens after death….no. Do they have some explanation, yes. Is their explanations based on facts and evidence, no. Does science tell us what happens after death, no.
Does anyone have enough evidence to conclusively determine religions are wrong about what happens after death? No!
Yet you are happy to pretend you know.

No one knows what happens post death
So again, how do you know all religions are wrong about what happens after death?

You and your strawmen! Is that all you can ever say?

How about answering a question?
(Fat chance)

Do you agree or disagree with the current scientific understanding in regard to what happens after death?

Do you believe a particular religion has discovered the truth regarding life after death?

Please name the religion and explain why you think it’s the case.

Like all the questions I have ever put up to you for an answer I doubt you will answer these ones, such is your level of deceit and dishonesty.

"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #207 on: October 18, 2022, 07:10:01 AM »
When it comes to desperation and gagging to be right at any cost you are well out in front.
It would be impossible to compete with you on that.

Your ploy, as always, is to ignore the facts presented
No, my "ploy" is to call out BS when I see it, and then point out when you blatantly misrepresent my position to avoid accepting that you were spouting BS.

Your ploy is to spout pure BS, then when called out on it, invent strawmen to attack, repeatedly lying about what I have said, and deflect at all costs.
This thread is just another example of that.
This is what started it:
If a belief is based on no more than a whim or flight of fancy the chances of any of them being right are almost non existent as they are all based on…… zero facts and a ton of BS.
Making pronouncements as religions do about what’s waiting for it’s believers after death is total made up  BS. How could if not be?
I simply said none of them are right
Comments like those where you claim to know that religions are wrong.

But because you can't defend those claims, you resort to dishonest BS like this:
So Jack which religions are right? And what’s your evidence for saying that?

You entirely misrepresent my position because you can't actually argue against it.
You realise you screwed up and spouted BS which you cannot defend. But rather than admit that, you are happy to lie (or at the very least be incredibly dishonest) and blatantly misrepresent my position.

Where have I ever said that a religion is right?
NOWHERE!
But because you are so desperate to be right at all costs, you have to lie and pretend I did.

Notice that I can give quotes of where you say the things I state you have.
Conversely, you never provide quotes because you just fabricating what you claim I say.

Do any religions know what happens after death….no. Do they have some explanation, yes. Is their explanations based on facts and evidence, no. Does science tell us what happens after death, no.
Does anyone have enough evidence to conclusively determine religions are wrong about what happens after death? No!
Yet you are happy to pretend you know.

No one knows what happens post death
So again, how do you know all religions are wrong about what happens after death?

You’ve not been paying attention!

You said:-

“So again, how do you know all religions are wrong about what happens after death?”

That was a question you asked. It’s funny how you ask questions but never answer them.

The thing is like you I don’t know. Like you on a subject like death I have no means of finding an answer. Like you I have to rely on  professional experts in that field.

They say, not I, that what happens after death to the mind or inner self, call it what you will is unknown. This is despite what religions have to say. They being not big on science tend to go for belief based expiations.

If you think some religion has cracked it and has an answer, say which religion and why you think they are correct.

It’s pretty unlikely you will answer and it’s pretty likely you will claim lies and strawmen!
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!

*

boydster

  • Assistant to the Regional Manager
  • 17774
  • +6/-4
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #208 on: October 18, 2022, 07:19:45 AM »
Raise your hand if you're surprised that Tim still hasn't learned how things like burden of proof and good-faith arguments work. Anyone? Anyone at all??

*

Timeisup

  • 4166
  • +9/-18
  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #209 on: October 18, 2022, 08:32:48 AM »
Raise your hand if you're surprised that Tim still hasn't learned how things like burden of proof and good-faith arguments work. Anyone? Anyone at all??

What would a flat earth mod know about burden of proof?

Though if you had been paying attention I did offer proof way back,

Given this is a flat earth forum I would have thought proof is not even a word in the flat earth lexicon.

It’s funny how you always appear when Jack is on the ropes.

So what do you think or know about post death? Do you have any insights?
"I can accept that some aspects of FE belief are true, while others are fiction."

Jack Black

Now that is a laugh!