Why are flat earthers so dishonest?

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Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #360 on: August 18, 2023, 03:32:53 PM »
I'd love to know what his annual salary on the flat earth circuit is.....

Enough to make BS for a living and nothing tangible other than what FE’rs want to hear. 

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #361 on: August 18, 2023, 03:33:42 PM »
The only way Sargent can piss his target audience off is to tell the truth.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #362 on: September 23, 2023, 12:43:34 PM »
It's not a bug; it's a feature.

Dishonesty is a useful tool when the idea is preposterous and unsupported.
"All of us have our individual curses, something that we are uncomfortable with and something that we have to deal with.” -- Wes Craven

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #363 on: October 14, 2023, 01:33:00 AM »
Flatwittery and dishonesty go hand in hand.

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #364 on: January 11, 2024, 02:18:45 PM »
The die hard flat earther’s are still proving citable examples of right out dishonesty. 

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Timeisup

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  • You still think that. You cannot be serious ?
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #365 on: January 17, 2024, 03:25:04 AM »
It's actually an interesting question. Why do flat earth's believe what they believe and why do they all each have a slightly different version of their alleged flat net-reality.

What motivates 'Username' to imagine the earth is an infinite plane when the truth of the matter is readily available. What motivates him to create some fantastical neu-reality that has no bearing on our actual reality.

Flat earthers say they want to know the truth then just deal exclusively in lies, why is that?
Really…..what a laugh!!!

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #366 on: January 18, 2024, 03:02:08 AM »
It's actually an interesting question. Why do flat earth's believe what they believe and why do they all each have a slightly different version of their alleged flat net-reality.
Maybe because they reject the indoctrinated stories of old and of present and have their own take on potentials.


Quote from: Timeisup
What motivates 'Username' to imagine the earth is an infinite plane when the truth of the matter is readily available.
The truth isn't readily available to all. The stories are readily available to all and maybe within those stories there is truth and fiction.

Quote from: Timeisup
What motivates him to create some fantastical neu-reality that has no bearing on our actual reality.
You don't know the reality, you only know what you're programmed to know as we all are. It's up to each individual to try and decipher the facts from the stories or write their version of possibilities..


Quote from: Timeisup
Flat earthers say they want to know the truth then just deal exclusively in lies, why is that?
Most people want to know the truth and most people are being coerced into dealing with lies sold as truths and relaying those lies as their truths, unknowingly, generally.

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JackBlack

  • 21797
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #367 on: January 18, 2024, 04:07:24 AM »
The truth isn't readily available to all. The stories are readily available to all and maybe within those stories there is truth and fiction.
For things like the shape of Earth, the truth is readily available to almost all.
People who are blind will find it much harder.
People who are disabled and can't easily move around will find it harder.
People who are intellectually challenged will find it harder.

But for most people, if they stop and think about how a flat surface and a round surface should appear (including considering how the radius of the round surface and their height above it affects it); and they can go and make some simple observations; they will discover the truth that Earth is round.

You don't know the reality, you only know what you're programmed to know
Just because you are wilfully ignorant, that doesn't mean everyone is.

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #368 on: January 18, 2024, 05:37:30 AM »
It's actually an interesting question. Why do flat earth's believe what they believe and why do they all each have a slightly different version of their alleged flat net-reality.
Maybe because they reject the indoctrinated stories of old and of present and have their own take on potentials.


Quote from: Timeisup
What motivates 'Username' to imagine the earth is an infinite plane when the truth of the matter is readily available.
The truth isn't readily available to all. The stories are readily available to all and maybe within those stories there is truth and fiction.

Quote from: Timeisup
What motivates him to create some fantastical neu-reality that has no bearing on our actual reality.
You don't know the reality, you only know what you're programmed to know as we all are. It's up to each individual to try and decipher the facts from the stories or write their version of possibilities..


Quote from: Timeisup
Flat earthers say they want to know the truth then just deal exclusively in lies, why is that?
Most people want to know the truth and most people are being coerced into dealing with lies sold as truths and relaying those lies as their truths, unknowingly, generally.

Oh, you mean the truth like your stacked air theory in place of gravity?

The truth is we each live in two worlds. The first world is our own little world which is subjective and as the flat earth priests describe. The second is the wider world which includes the whole world, which is objective, and as science describes.

Most people don't make it a crusade to prove the shape or size of the Earth because they are satisfied it has already been proven in a million different factual ways.

Flat earthers are running from the objective truth of the whole world and taking refuge in their own little world which is subjective, but they think they can make objective. They can't.

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #369 on: January 18, 2024, 05:31:46 PM »
No, it's been hinted.

Passive-aggressive hints are not the truth, just as murmuring that the Earth "should" be round doesn't bear out actual observations.

If I hinted that magnets are really devices THEY used to control our minds, and sat around waiting for you to take the hint with my posse while I make little comments, it doesn't make me right. It just makes me a prick who wants a wrong thing to be right and will tell people "It's obviously been proven" when it hasn't.

Good luck with that.

 





Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #370 on: January 18, 2024, 10:07:46 PM »
No, it's been hinted.

Passive-aggressive hints are not the truth, just as murmuring that the Earth "should" be round doesn't bear out actual observations.

If I hinted that magnets are really devices THEY used to control our minds, and sat around waiting for you to take the hint with my posse while I make little comments, it doesn't make me right. It just makes me a prick who wants a wrong thing to be right and will tell people "It's obviously been proven" when it hasn't.

Good luck with that.

Bulma, you are living in your own little world which looks very flat to you, and there's nothing wrong with that, because we all do.

Life is all about values, and clearly you hold no value in the work of science explaining the world around you. That's fine, too.

But if you suddenly decide you want to challenge mainstream science and what science says about the shape of the entire world, then you need to be prepared to step outside your own little world, and you're not prepared to.

You've heard of the videos and books titled 100 proofs and 200 proofs of a flat earth? That's really 200 illusions of our own little world. When addressing the entire Earth, one could easily make a video or book titled, "5000 proofs of the globe earth", and still be able to find more for it's sequel, "10000 proofs of the globe earth."

But don't worry, Bulma. Nobody can force you out of your flat earth bubble.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 03:27:37 AM by Smoke Machine »

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JackBlack

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Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #371 on: January 19, 2024, 12:38:09 AM »
No, it's been hinted.
What has been "hinted"?
That Earth is round?
Because that is what all the evidence supports.
It isn't just murmurs, it is mountains of evidence.

Earth "should" be round doesn't bear out actual observations.
Like what?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #372 on: January 19, 2024, 07:45:45 AM »
The truth isn't readily available to all. The stories are readily available to all and maybe within those stories there is truth and fiction.
For things like the shape of Earth, the truth is readily available to almost all.
The truth of Earth is not known by 99.9% if not 100% of people.
The stories as to what we are told it's supposed to be, are numerous and people simply rely on and use those stories as their facts without knowing any physical reality of any of them.

Quote from: JackBlack
People who are blind will find it much harder.
It depends on who the blind ones are. The blind may be leading the blind.

Quote from: JackBlack
People who are disabled and can't easily move around will find it harder.
Except for miracle people like Hawking, eh?
Did some kind of god gift him his knowledge or was he put before the blind as the voice of authority on subjects schooled through his voice?


Quote from: JackBlack
People who are intellectually challenged will find it harder.
That depends on what you actually mean by intellectually challenged.
If you mean someone incapable of absorbing info as fast as another then does that make a person intellectually challenged?
If someone takes 2 days to get to an understanding against someone who manages to get it in 1 hour, does that make a person intellectually challenged or simply not as fast to get to the same ending?

I'll see what you think.

Quote from: JackBlack
But for most people, if they stop and think about how a flat surface and a round surface should appear (including considering how the radius of the round surface and their height above it affects it); and they can go and make some simple observations; they will discover the truth that Earth is round.
No.
If people are told to think on that line and be ridiculed for alternate thoughts then naturally most will simply follow the pattern of the majority. It's as simple as that, even if they were told the Earth was a triangle.


Quote from: JackBlack
You don't know the reality, you only know what you're programmed to know
Just because you are wilfully ignorant, that doesn't mean everyone is.
The very same can be aimed at you.
You may well be in a majority of ignorant people but the majority makes arrogance dissolve the ignorance in your mind and the mind of those who simply follow the easy off-the-peg route.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #373 on: January 19, 2024, 07:55:43 AM »
Oh, you mean the truth like your stacked air theory in place of gravity?
You mean my thoughts against the gravity you were coerced into believing.

Quote from: Smoke Machine
The truth is we each live in two worlds. The first world is our own little world which is subjective and as the flat earth priests describe. The second is the wider world which includes the whole world, which is objective, and as science describes.
The truth may never be known.
It's all about stories and faith based on them or scepticism of them with an alternative idea to the contrary which may also be far from the truth.

Quote from: Smoke Machine
Most people don't make it a crusade to prove the shape or size of the Earth because they are satisfied it has already been proven in a million different factual ways.
Most people simply choose the easy route in life. Don't question and simply follow the crowd.
It's safer and less hassle to do that.
It doesn't make those people correct in their acceptance of the faith, it simply makes them believe they are correct by standing with the crowd majority.


Quote from: Smoke Machine
Flat earthers are running from the objective truth of the whole world and taking refuge in their own little world which is subjective, but they think they can make objective. They can't.
Nobody will make anything objective against any major majority, no matter what it is, if that major majority deems what's told to them as being subjective.

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #374 on: January 19, 2024, 11:17:26 AM »
Quote
But if you suddenly decide you want to challenge mainstream science and what science says about the shape of the entire world, then you need to be prepared to step outside your own little world, and you're not prepared to.

But I'm not challenging mainstream science.

Because mainstream science is actually this.



Scientific method says that if you are wrong, you try again, until you find something that is right.
1. You can never be sure whether you are right about the right thing (that's why you're supposed to doublecheck). You can also be right about the wrong thing, as is the case with billions of people correctly identifying that objects fall... but incorrectly identifying why they fall. We can be sure this is the wrong conclusion as the logic isn't consistent with itself. Gravity cannot make things fall but also make things spin, just as it can't hold things firmly down... yet allow a tiny chirpy bird and a jumbo jet to both overcome it.
2. Mainstream science, as accepted as it is by, well, the mainstream, is nonetheless firmly opposed to what is called consensus science. That is, the idea that science is settled because it is in agreement. No, what mainstream science is, opposing the consensus. Or as Cooking Master Boy put it, "our tradition is breaking with tradition." That is science, not resting on settled ideas but to ask, "But is it really? Let's test this death thing in my lab by using parts of harvested corpses and electricity (yeah, that's a Frankenstein reference)."  Or to ask, "What is out there? What is deep in the sea? What is underground? I gotta know!" Settled 'science' is an affront to real science. It stifles all exploration by creating orthodoxy.

So your "you dare to challenge the RE orthodoxy" thing? Yes, I dare. Because science would never get anywhere if we were all in agreement.  Science progressed because people were willing to challenge the mainstream. If not for people speaking out about leaches and bleeding, we would still be doing it.

Just as music needs to also be challenged before it gets into a rut. I-V-vi-IV is overused. There, I said it.

So why do I speak out against something with older science? Because I'm not convinced it has been disproven, despite the numerous (and loud) claims of this. And because any opposing science is better than a consensus. Perhaps we'll find Earth is hollow. Or inverted bell-shaped. Or shaped like a burrito. But mainstream science does not exist if we have orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is the entrenchment of ideas in a way that those who oppose it meet with increasing resistance. In Christianity, until the orthodoxy was opposed, suggesting that maybe we shouldn't pay indulgences led to an actual war. And 100 years prior, similarly heterodox people were put to death.
And speaking of music earlier, there was actual orthodoxy concerning music, as the way music is read now comes from closing Greek schools to get rid of "pagan music." Before that, they used a letter system and symbols to indicate long notes. For awhile we had no music but chanting.  Then a dispute arose about plainchanting between Romans and Gauls, and it wasn't until Charlemagne that this started being settled. But of course, this isn't the end of the story either. Progress happens not because one side wins and another loses, but because they had the battle.

Diverging opinions? It's part of mainstream science.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 11:31:01 AM by bulmabriefs144 »




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JackBlack

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Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #375 on: January 19, 2024, 12:37:29 PM »
The truth of Earth is not known by 99.9% if not 100% of people.
The majority of people don't give a damn.
But plenty of people know the truth of the shape of Earth.
Of those, fewer have actually thought about the everyday experiences they have encountered which demonstrates that truth, but that doesn't mean they know.

In order for it to not be the truth it would need to actually be fiction. Not merely them being told the truth by someone else.

Your irrational hatred of reality doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

It depends on who the blind ones are.
I mean it in a literal sense. I.e. those who cannot see.

Except for miracle people like Hawking, eh?
I said harder, not impossible.

That depends on what you actually mean by intellectually challenged.
People like you who are incapable of reasoning, either because of actual mental disability, or those who are just so heavily brainwashed into their beliefs that they can never accept anything that goes contrary to them.
People who can't understand simple things like how a FOV works.
People who need to flee from simple questions because they can't answer them.
People who directly contradict themselves by claiming low pressure cannot overcome higher pressure, only to claim the air (being low pressure above) magically pushes objects down (into higher pressure below).
People who entirely fail to comprehend simple things like the difference between small and far away, and how basic geometry work.

I do not mean those who simply question what others teach them.

If someone takes 2 days to get to an understanding against someone who manages to get it in 1 hour, does that make a person intellectually challenged or simply not as fast to get to the same ending?
Again, that comes down to hard vs impossible.
Someone who is gifted will find it easy to relate their experiences to different hypothetically possible models of Earth and see which ones match and which ones don't.
Those who are intellectually challenged will find it much harder, and for some it will be impossible.

If people are told to think on that line and be ridiculed
Who said anything about ridicule?
You are the one continually trying to ridicule people for accepting reality.

Try it with what I actually suggested.
Having people actually stop and think about what the different models predict should be observed, and then compare that to reality.

I know you are desperate to pretend that the only way people would accept reality is due to ridicule, so you can pretend your fantasy is true.
But if people were never told what the shape of Earth actually is, and instead provided with possible models, and they then had to determine what each model predicts should be observed, and compare that to reality; they will end up with a RE model, as that is the one which matches reality.
It is as simple as that.

Almost anyone if they actually wanted to, could relatively easily think about the different models, and make some simple observations and conclude that Earth is round.
Even you can do it; you just refuse to because it will show your fantasy is wrong and you can't exactly say you were lying about your observations or you intentionally did something wrong.

It is NOT just based upon blind adherence to a story someone has said.

The very same can be aimed at you.
No, it can't.
Because unlike you, I'm not wilfully ignorant of such simple facts.
Unlike you I don't need to flee from simple questions which demonstrate my beliefs are delusional BS with no chance of working in reality.

the majority makes arrogance dissolve the ignorance
No, the evidence and rational arguments supporting my beliefs dissolve the ignorance.

Nobody will make anything objective against any major majority, no matter what it is, if that major majority deems what's told to them as being subjective.
Except the countless times that has already happened in the past.
Like how people made an objective argument to the falsely held belief that Earth was flat, which resulted in the RE model becoming the predominant one.
Like how the idea of Newtonian relativity was shown to be fundamentally flawed, and it was replaced by special relativity.
Like how the idea that objects are either waves or particles and not both was shown to be flawed and replaced by quantum mechanics with wave particle duality.
Like how the idea that waves need a medium of propagation was shown to be flawed, and instead only certain waves do.

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JackBlack

  • 21797
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #376 on: January 19, 2024, 01:23:51 PM »
But I'm not challenging mainstream science.
Because so far nothing you have presented even remotely challenges it.
Instead it just blatantly lies about it.

You can also be right about the wrong thing, as is the case with billions of people correctly identifying that objects fall... but incorrectly identifying why they fall.
Really?
Billions of people reject gravity?

Gravity cannot make things fall but also make things spin, just as it can't hold things firmly down... yet allow a tiny chirpy bird and a jumbo jet to both overcome it.
And see, this is another example of the above. You aren't challenging science, you are just lying about it.
Why can't that happen?
Because you are desperate for an excuse to reject reality and can't come up with a coherent argument.

We can try the same with string.
String cannot make things fall but also make things spin.
Except it can. You have string pull something down (including things which float a helium balloon). But you can also tie something to a string and spin it around.
Likewise, gravity provides a force of attraction. If there is no relative motion to begin with, they fall towards each other and collide.
If instead there is relative motion, which is not in a line between them, then gravity will not necessarily be able to make them collide.
If it has an appropriate tangential velocity, then the objects accelerate towards each other and end up orbiting their barycenter.
If the velocity is not enough, then the objects collide. If it is fast enough, it is a hyperbolic orbit where they each deflect each other's trajectory.
If the velocity is in an appropriate range, then it is in an elliptical orbit, which doesn't intersect Earth.

You can even think about this logically to realise you are spouting pure BS.
If your BS attack was true, then if you throw an object, as soon as it is released from your hand, it must fly straight down.
If instead, reality is true and gravity isn't magic, then as you release the object, gravity acts to accelerate it towards Earth.
This results in it continuing with its horizontal velocity, and following an arc as the vertical velocity changes due to the acceleration towards Earth.
You can also consider how much this arc curves over a given distance.
The faster you make it go, the less it curves over a certain distance.
That means at the appropriate speed, it will curve at the rate of curvature of Earth.
And that means it it can just circle around Earth.

So yes, contrary to your lie, gravity can make things fall or orbit. Because it isn't magic.

Likewise, we can try your second load of BS with a piece of string.
String can't hold things firmly down, yet fail to prevent things from going up.
Yet I can easily use a string to hold a helium filled balloon down, and then just grab the string and pull it up causing it to snap.
Again, gravity is not magic.
It is a force.
Any given object will have a downwards force due to gravity proportional to their mass.
This force is not magic.
It will not magically hold things down regardless of what happens.
All it requires to have things go up is another force acting on it which is greater than the force due to gravity.
We also see this with things like magnets; where magnets can be used to hold something to a surface, but you can easily just apply a greater force to pull the object off the manget.

So again, no actual challenge to gravity, just pathetic lies.
And lies which have been refuted repeatedly.
But that doesn't stop dishonest people like you continuing to repeat them knowing you are wrong.

2. Mainstream science, as accepted as it is by, well, the mainstream, is nonetheless firmly opposed to what is called consensus science. That is, the idea that science is settled because it is in agreement. No, what mainstream science is, opposing the consensus.
No, it is not inherently opposing the consensus.
Just blindly opposing the consensus is just as anti-science as just blindly accepting it.

Actual science is about making models and testing them. Trying to expand the scope of these models and testing if they still work in this expanded scope or they need to be improved.
It is not about just rejecting things which show your model is wrong.
It is not about believing in a massive conspiracy where you can't trust anything.

If science was just rejecting everything people of the past have discovered and trying to figure everything out yourself, we would never progress, always being stuck to reject the truth only to rediscover it later.

So your "you dare to challenge the RE orthodoxy" thing? Yes, I dare.
So why don't you stop lying about it and instead try to challenge it?
And there is no RE orthodoxy. There is simply an accepted model which matches reality and works to predict what occurs in reality.

So why do I speak out against something with older science? Because I'm not convinced it has been disproven
Yet in order to pretend to demonstrate that, you just repeatedly lie about it, and wilfully ignore all the evidence that shows you are wrong.
That is not science.
That is you adhering to FE orthodoxy.

because any opposing science is better than a consensus.
No, it isn't.
A consensus based upon mountains of evidence, with people accepting a model that works to describe reality; is vastly superior to rejection for the sake of opposition where you just ignore everything that shows you are wrong and continue to lie.
You do not have opposing science. You have wilful rejection of reality.

Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #377 on: January 19, 2024, 02:31:07 PM »
TL;DR.

As an aside, I've decided that musical notation ought to be done this way.

♫•♪•♪   
A1#,B1•A1b•C1#

We use a comma to indicate notes that are beamed together, otherwise we use an interpunct (a precursor to a space, which tends to be more visually noticeable than a space). There is no staff, as I have found that the hurdle when reading music is trying to count the lines. You're just noting the music note, and counting the duration. There is literally no reason for the staff except to look pretty.  In regards to a minim perfect (the dotted half note), we replace that dot with a small underline. We do this because of the issue with the interpunct which I immediately created with this system.

Okay, so how do you make rests? Simple, the (quarter note) rest symbol on the bottom, the duration up top. This means there are only eight note forms: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, (rest).   

The beauty of this is that by doing away with the actual scales, you can make the clefs notated as before (instead of those numbers), you can write 3/2 or whatever, but you no longer have to fiddle with line reading. You know the note, you know the octave, you know whether it is sharp or flat, and you know the duration.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 03:26:56 PM by bulmabriefs144 »




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JackBlack

  • 21797
Re: Why are flat earthers so dishonest?
« Reply #378 on: January 19, 2024, 04:11:12 PM »
TL;DR.
Any excuse to avoid facing your dishonesty.

If you would like a shorter version:
YOU ARE LYING!
You are repeating the same refuted lies about gravity.

Mindlessly rejecting science just for the sake of opposing it is worse than just mindlessly accepting.
Science is not about rejecting current models. It is about building upon them to try to extend them.

If something is the truth, eventually the majority opinion will likely reach a consensus on it.
Rejecting that truth just because it has consensus is not rational nor scientific.

I've decided that musical notation ought to be done this way.
There is no objective truth to which musical notation is the best. It is entirely subjective.
Some people prefer some notation, other people prefer other notation.