Why are flat earthers so dishonest?

We should welcome diversity in ideas and opinions - lest our civilization become dull and stagnant

If flat earths want to live a “steam punk fantasy.”  That’s their business.


I think the context is when flat earther’s fail at debate because their stance has nothing to do with actual reality. 

Or as mentioned, fail to test and publish results based on their own theories.  (Hide or ignore failed experiments, and reality that contradicts their fantasy)

Or throws out because of some undefined power / being “wished so” with no bases in observed physics. 

Or, as mentioned, throw out spherical earth is the great evil lie and conspiracy.

Don't any flat earthers think its weird that no progress has been made in 150+ years?

Name a single phenomenon that couldn't be explained by flat earth theory 150 years ago that has now been studied by flat earthers and can now be explained.

I would have thought you would start with basics like days/seasons, but you can't even explain that

Name a single phenomenon that couldn't be explained by flat earth theory 150 years ago that has now been studied by flat earthers and can now be explained.

150 years ago we didn't have nuts hell bent on trying to exterminate free thinking.  Now we have a plethora of folks who feel a need to attack us for not believing their view of reality.
Obviously Flat Earth will never have any effect on anything in your life, yet you feel some need to attack people who do not harbor your beliefs.

. . .

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 17, 2022, 12:10:17 AM

Name a single phenomenon that couldn't be explained by flat earth theory 150 years ago that has now been studied by flat earthers and can now be explained.

150 years ago we didn't have nuts hell bent on trying to exterminate free thinking.  Now we have a plethora of folks who feel a need to attack us for not believing their view of reality.
Obviously Flat Earth will never have any effect on anything in your life, yet you feel some need to attack people who do not harbor your beliefs.

. . .

It harkens back to the idea that if you want a good job, want to make good $$, want a good life, you need a good education. The foundation of a good education and in understanding this world, is basic geography  it is a globe.

Try going to a job interview and telling the employer you believe the Earth is flat. See if you get the job.

Part of the idea behind round earthers debating with people who think the Earth is flat, isn't to put them down, but to lift up their knowledge level and bring it into line with the rest of the world. So they might live better lives.

I've always said, if a flat earther is debating and defending their belief, then they have reached a point where they could be swayed. Otherwise, why would they bother debating, instead of quietly living with their belief, where nobody else need ever know?

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 17, 2022, 12:10:17 AM

Name a single phenomenon that couldn't be explained by flat earth theory 150 years ago that has now been studied by flat earthers and can now be explained.

150 years ago we didn't have nuts hell bent on trying to exterminate free thinking.  Now we have a plethora of folks who feel a need to attack us for not believing their view of reality.
Obviously Flat Earth will never have any effect on anything in your life, yet you feel some need to attack people who do not harbor your beliefs.

. . .

Again.   If they want to play steam punk fantasy, that’s their business.

Different when engaging in a debate forum using blatant falsehoods and intellectual dishonesty.

Makes you wonder how many actively pushing flat earh are just trolling or out to see how many followers they can get to jump on the band wagon for likes and fame.   

If you're so sure of a globe earth why do you actively push it? Are flat earthers really so large in number they are a threat to your truth? Are you worried? Are they on to something you want silenced?

The flat earthers create a space on the internet for them. It's filled with globers. Who's the real zealot?

If you're so sure of a globe earth why do you actively push it?

The demonstrable reality being spherical earth.

It’s a debate forum.  A flat earther poster post something. The argument presents opportunities to combat blatant falsehoods.  Like global earth is a evil fantasy.

Or the lie the sun would set on a flat earth that is the size of our world.

Or the lie you can’t fly over Antarctica.

Items that can be debunked.

Then evidence to debunk flat earth falsehoods is provided.

Are flat earthers really so large in number they are a threat to your truth?

Nope.  But the hardcore flat earthers that post are more than willing to debate and play the fool.

Are you worried?

It’s interesting how they handle provided demonstrable proof the reality is a spherical earth.  A study in belief vs demonstrable reality.

Are they on to something you want silenced?

I think I have asked what truth flat earther’s hold?  Care to provided a credible answer.

The flat earthers create a space on the internet for them.

If they don’t want to be questioned.  Then remove the debated forum from this site.  But who wants a “view” that can not hold up against the baptism of debate. 

We aren’t debating aspects of spirituality.  We are debating items like, “can one literally circumnavigate the world.”

And is something like this a real possibility:

The First Circumnavigation of the Globe

https://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/portam/first.html

One of the most noted of Portuguese-born explorers was Fernão de Magalhães (anglicized as "Magellan"), who instigated and organized the first circumnavigation of the globe from 1519 to 1522. Sailing for the King of Spain, he set out with the objective of finding a route to the Orient by sailing westward around the southern tip of South America.

It's filled with globers. Who's the real zealot?

People willing to openly have spherical earth challenged.  Who take the arguments of flat earth serous enough and read through their beliefs, then provide sound arguments against the falsehoods flat earther’s provide in an open debate forum? 

Quote from: boydster on August 14, 2022, 02:48:17 PM

Quote from: Stash on August 14, 2022, 12:29:37 PM

Believing a lie is different than lying.

I'm glad you pointed this out, because it's exactly what I was going to say too when I was catching up on this thread. Lying requires intent. Plain and simple. Belief is simply faith that something is true that the believer might not have enough evidence to argue with only logic. And a person can have no desire to pursue evidence for or against their belief without that making them a liar.

I'm noticing a trend of people that are brand new to a board, come out swinging like this and declaring that they just can't find anyone else on those boards that will engage them, and then leaping to the conclusion that the FE proponents at said board don't have a response. From what I've seen, the issue is typically the messenger and their delivery.

For clarification I'm more referring to intellectual dishonesty as opposed to literally believing the earth is round and lying by saying they think its flat.

Its the disingenuousness of claiming to be a "truth seeker" but ignoring any evidence against your existing beliefs.

Its the dishonesty of being presented with a flaw that completely debunks their side, then just ignoring it in order to continue believing.

Its now been weeks since I first posted about this flaw. The longer it goes unexplained the more it seems like flat earthers can't explain it.

I can explain how days and seasons work on a round earth concurrently, it takes 2 sentences.

Please, just a single flat earther. Any one of you reading this right now. Literally any flat earther. I dont care who. Tell me how it works in a way that actually matches reality.

I'm not offering a hard challenge, I'm not asking people to actually go out and do experiments. I'm just asking for an explanation.

Why is it so hard? You can all talk for hours about domes and ice walls, but nobody seems to have covered the basics of days and seasons

This forum has been online for about 16yrs.  You come here and insult us, and then get butthurt when no one wants to answer you.

This forum has been online for about 16yrs.  You come here and insult us, and then get butthurt when no one wants to answer you.

Funny how those that show the demonstrable reality of spherical earth answer / address the same flat earther falsehoods over and over again.  Leaving no flat earther stone unturned.

And funny what flat earther’s ignore. 

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 15, 2022, 05:36:27 AM

Quote from: boydster on August 14, 2022, 02:48:17 PM

Quote from: Stash on August 14, 2022, 12:29:37 PM

Believing a lie is different than lying.

I'm glad you pointed this out, because it's exactly what I was going to say too when I was catching up on this thread. Lying requires intent. Plain and simple. Belief is simply faith that something is true that the believer might not have enough evidence to argue with only logic. And a person can have no desire to pursue evidence for or against their belief without that making them a liar.

I'm noticing a trend of people that are brand new to a board, come out swinging like this and declaring that they just can't find anyone else on those boards that will engage them, and then leaping to the conclusion that the FE proponents at said board don't have a response. From what I've seen, the issue is typically the messenger and their delivery.

For clarification I'm more referring to intellectual dishonesty as opposed to literally believing the earth is round and lying by saying they think its flat.

Its the disingenuousness of claiming to be a "truth seeker" but ignoring any evidence against your existing beliefs.

Its the dishonesty of being presented with a flaw that completely debunks their side, then just ignoring it in order to continue believing.

Its now been weeks since I first posted about this flaw. The longer it goes unexplained the more it seems like flat earthers can't explain it.

I can explain how days and seasons work on a round earth concurrently, it takes 2 sentences.

Please, just a single flat earther. Any one of you reading this right now. Literally any flat earther. I dont care who. Tell me how it works in a way that actually matches reality.

I'm not offering a hard challenge, I'm not asking people to actually go out and do experiments. I'm just asking for an explanation.

Why is it so hard? You can all talk for hours about domes and ice walls, but nobody seems to have covered the basics of days and seasons

This forum has been online for about 16yrs.  You come here and insult us, and then get butthurt when no one wants to answer you.

I was polite when first posting this question, and polite when I posted it elsewhere and still nobody could answer it.

Its not a case of people not wanting to answer the question, flat earthers love to try to prove globe earthers wrong. Its that you can't answer it. You (and other people I've discussed this with on debate forums) then hide behind things like "I don't owe you any explanations" and "you're being impolite so I won't explain it to you"

Rather than just slapping my face by saying I'm being insulting, why not go for the full knockout and make me look like a fool by proving me wrong and showing that flat earthers can actually explain days and seasons

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 18, 2022, 05:18:37 PM

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 15, 2022, 05:36:27 AM

Quote from: boydster on August 14, 2022, 02:48:17 PM

Quote from: Stash on August 14, 2022, 12:29:37 PM

Believing a lie is different than lying.

I'm glad you pointed this out, because it's exactly what I was going to say too when I was catching up on this thread. Lying requires intent. Plain and simple. Belief is simply faith that something is true that the believer might not have enough evidence to argue with only logic. And a person can have no desire to pursue evidence for or against their belief without that making them a liar.

I'm noticing a trend of people that are brand new to a board, come out swinging like this and declaring that they just can't find anyone else on those boards that will engage them, and then leaping to the conclusion that the FE proponents at said board don't have a response. From what I've seen, the issue is typically the messenger and their delivery.

For clarification I'm more referring to intellectual dishonesty as opposed to literally believing the earth is round and lying by saying they think its flat.

Its the disingenuousness of claiming to be a "truth seeker" but ignoring any evidence against your existing beliefs.

Its the dishonesty of being presented with a flaw that completely debunks their side, then just ignoring it in order to continue believing.

Its now been weeks since I first posted about this flaw. The longer it goes unexplained the more it seems like flat earthers can't explain it.

I can explain how days and seasons work on a round earth concurrently, it takes 2 sentences.

Please, just a single flat earther. Any one of you reading this right now. Literally any flat earther. I dont care who. Tell me how it works in a way that actually matches reality.

I'm not offering a hard challenge, I'm not asking people to actually go out and do experiments. I'm just asking for an explanation.

Why is it so hard? You can all talk for hours about domes and ice walls, but nobody seems to have covered the basics of days and seasons

This forum has been online for about 16yrs.  You come here and insult us, and then get butthurt when no one wants to answer you.

I was polite when first posting this question, and polite when I posted it elsewhere and still nobody could answer it.

Its not a case of people not wanting to answer the question, flat earthers love to try to prove globe earthers wrong. Its that you can't answer it. You (and other people I've discussed this with on debate forums) then hide behind things like "I don't owe you any explanations" and "you're being impolite so I won't explain it to you"

Rather than just slapping my face by saying I'm being insulting, why not go for the full knockout and make me look like a fool by proving me wrong and showing that flat earthers can actually explain days and seasons

It has been answered hundreds of times before. And we have a wiki. Don't get mad if people don't care to entertain a n00b who probably won't stick around or is just another Timmy alt

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 19, 2022, 09:33:48 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 18, 2022, 05:18:37 PM

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 15, 2022, 05:36:27 AM

Quote from: boydster on August 14, 2022, 02:48:17 PM

Quote from: Stash on August 14, 2022, 12:29:37 PM

Believing a lie is different than lying.

I'm glad you pointed this out, because it's exactly what I was going to say too when I was catching up on this thread. Lying requires intent. Plain and simple. Belief is simply faith that something is true that the believer might not have enough evidence to argue with only logic. And a person can have no desire to pursue evidence for or against their belief without that making them a liar.

I'm noticing a trend of people that are brand new to a board, come out swinging like this and declaring that they just can't find anyone else on those boards that will engage them, and then leaping to the conclusion that the FE proponents at said board don't have a response. From what I've seen, the issue is typically the messenger and their delivery.

For clarification I'm more referring to intellectual dishonesty as opposed to literally believing the earth is round and lying by saying they think its flat.

Its the disingenuousness of claiming to be a "truth seeker" but ignoring any evidence against your existing beliefs.

Its the dishonesty of being presented with a flaw that completely debunks their side, then just ignoring it in order to continue believing.

Its now been weeks since I first posted about this flaw. The longer it goes unexplained the more it seems like flat earthers can't explain it.

I can explain how days and seasons work on a round earth concurrently, it takes 2 sentences.

Please, just a single flat earther. Any one of you reading this right now. Literally any flat earther. I dont care who. Tell me how it works in a way that actually matches reality.

I'm not offering a hard challenge, I'm not asking people to actually go out and do experiments. I'm just asking for an explanation.

Why is it so hard? You can all talk for hours about domes and ice walls, but nobody seems to have covered the basics of days and seasons

This forum has been online for about 16yrs.  You come here and insult us, and then get butthurt when no one wants to answer you.

I was polite when first posting this question, and polite when I posted it elsewhere and still nobody could answer it.

Its not a case of people not wanting to answer the question, flat earthers love to try to prove globe earthers wrong. Its that you can't answer it. You (and other people I've discussed this with on debate forums) then hide behind things like "I don't owe you any explanations" and "you're being impolite so I won't explain it to you"

Rather than just slapping my face by saying I'm being insulting, why not go for the full knockout and make me look like a fool by proving me wrong and showing that flat earthers can actually explain days and seasons

It has been answered hundreds of times before. And we have a wiki. Don't get mad if people don't care to entertain a n00b who probably won't stick around or is just another Timmy alt

I've looked at the wiki. The page on seasons is a single sentence with a dead link to an inage. It doesn't answer my question. It just gives the usual explanation of seasons, and doesn't address the flaw that I've pointed out

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Seasons

I've checked the FAQ page, it also gives the same explanations for days and seasons and still doesn't address the flaw I've pointed out

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=13876.0

Can someone either explain this flaw or show me a post where flaw has already been answered?

I've now made multiple posts on different forums which have received thousands of views and dozens of comments pointing out a dealbreaking flaw with the flat earth explanation of days and seasons.

Tldr of the flaw. Either the sun moves at a constant speed around flat earth, or its speed changes throughout the year. Neither possibility matches the observable movement of the sun.

Flat earthers have been unable to provide an explanation for how days and seasons work that fixes this flaw.

The flat earth model cannot explain days and seasons without contradicting reality. The round earth model can explain both, simply and concurrently.

This flaw concerns basic phenomena of our day to day lives. Day/night and seasons. Its a false equivalence to say things like "well globe earthers can't explain everything, like what happened before the big bang".

It is intellectually dishonest to continue believing the earth is flat due to this impossible to resolve flaw.

Forget gravity, the dome, Antarctica, the coverup etc. Flat earth is DOA because you can't even explain days and seasons.

So, flat earthers, why do you continue to believe something that you can't even explain basic parts of?

I don't know what was said in this thread but here is the real reason. Most don't believe. Only 5 or less here actually believe. A flat earth member recently came out as a troll. Others just leave. Some prominent members no longer post here. If you claim to do many flat earth experiments would you just leave? No. They lied.

One actual flat earth believer has a mental illness where they can only believe the most outlandish stuff. Cars move by engines? No. Cars move by magic fairies? Yes.
Another was just stuck in old ways, probably due to a mental illness.
Another one thinks it make them smarter and more enlighten to believe the earth is flat.
One of the "flat earthers" made a map which had Moscow at a higher latitude than Helsinki. Do you see the mental illness trend?
Other's played flat earther like playing dressup. They mostly moved to the other site.

While it was always easy to see them lie, compared to 10 years ago to a few years ago the arguments were different, in my opinion. 10 years ago they would try and make claims. With recent events they changed to only being able to deny things. Starlink satellite trail comes to mind. "They don't exist" or "are something else". It came out of necessity. Most other lies are just from the trolls. denpressure and sun is a reflection off ice dome are just troll lies. I don't even bother to debate anymore. It only took me 14 years to realize just how worthless it is to continue to destroy the troll's(and the few real flat earthers) arguments.

To add some more to answer your question.
The troll flat earthers lie to troll. Some get bored and leave but others may take their place.
The real flat earthers  have no more arguments so they don't post much anymore or at all. The only real flat earther who posts is Username, but just look at the quality of their posts nowadays.

*points out flaw that kills flat earth*

"This has been answered hundreds of times"

*can't provide the answer or link to someone else providing an answer*

"Just check the wiki"

*explanations in wiki and FAQ both have the same flaw*

How to debate as a flat earther 101:

1. Ignore any questions you can't answer
2. If you've already engaged with the question, hand wave it away by saying it has already been answered
3. Provide an answer that doesn't actually answer the question

As of yet, flat earthers still cannot explain days and seasons

As of yet, flat earthers still cannot explain days and seasons

check the wiki, search the forums

Just because you personally disagree with an explanation doesn't mean it's any less valid

Quote from: Notthecurtains on August 22, 2022, 11:49:18 PM

As of yet, flat earthers still cannot explain days and seasons

check the wiki, search the forums

Just because you personally disagree with an explanation doesn't mean it's any less valid

Here's a wiki page on seasons, it doesn't explain the flaw.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#How_do_you_explain_day.2Fnight_cycles_and_seasons.3F

Here's another page on seasons, it doesn't explain the flaw

https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Seasons

Here's another page on seasons, it doesn't explain the flaw

https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Seasons

I've also searched the forums and not found an answer.

This person asked the same question as I have

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65123.msg1740109#msg1740109

None of the subsequent replies answered it.

Then they asked the same question again and got no replies at all

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65123.msg1773999#msg1773999

You're right, personally disagreeing with an explanation doesn't make it less valid. An explanation not matching reality is what makes it invalid.

I have searched the forum, looked at the wiki pages and asked the question myself and have not found an explanation. Please, if I've missed something then correct me.

How can you be sure your reality and objective experience is the same as anyone elses? Can you prove it?

How can you be sure your reality and objective experience is the same as anyone elses? Can you prove it?

So you've given up on the "There's an explanation for this flaw, just check the forums and the wiki. Its already been asked hundreds of times" line and are moving the goalposts?

Its comical the length flat earthers will go to in order to avoid admitting that days and seasons don't work on flat earth

Again, I can explain how days and seasons work on a globe in 2 sentences and I'd be happy to do so.

Yes or no question. Do you personally know of an explanation for how days and seasons work on flat earth which matches observations of the sun that anyone can make with their own eyes?

Objective experience is different for everybody

Some realities, antivaxxers are right about everything. Or Tucker Carlson, or Donald Trump.

I dont share any of these realities but others seem to believe this.

So who is to say others objective reality isn't flat earth? Might not be mine but I cant deny their experience just because mine doesn't match

Here's an explanation:

Here's an explanation:

The flaw I'm pointing out is a flaw with that explanation.

In that model the sun has to travel significantly faster on the outer ring than the inner ring, but we don't see the suns apparent speed through the sky change significantly through the year, therefore this explanation can't be correct

Objective experience is different for everybody

Some realities, antivaxxers are right about everything. Or Tucker Carlson, or Donald Trump.

I dont share any of these realities but others seem to believe this.

So who is to say others objective reality isn't flat earth? Might not be mine but I cant deny their experience just because mine doesn't match

Why are you even using the word, "reality"? Reality, implies real.

What you are talking about is subjective - a paradigm shift. No different to one art critic calling an artpiece a masterpiece and another a piece of crap. One person's view of the world through their own window.

Danang can argue all day long until the cows come home, that he can literally walk on clouds - that isn't reality. It's fantasy. I hope he never tries to jump out of a plane over a cloud, to try and prove he can land on the top of the cloud which he thinks is a floating landmass.

Objective experience is different for everybody

If you truly think that then you entirely fail to understand what objective means.

Your subjective experience is your own, and each person can have a different subjective experience. For example, a colour blind person cannot distinguish between some colours, while other people can. That is their subjective experience.
However, the objective experience is the particular wavelengths of light which are being reflected, emitted and absorbed.
Although I think using the word experience is a bit of a stretch.

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 12:42:15 PM

Objective experience is different for everybody

If you truly think that then you entirely fail to understand what objective means.

Your subjective experience is your own, and each person can have a different subjective experience. For example, a colour blind person cannot distinguish between some colours, while other people can. That is their subjective experience.
However, the objective experience is the particular wavelengths of light which are being reflected, emitted and absorbed.
Although I think using the word experience is a bit of a stretch.

I get subjectivity. But I also don't live in another person's head. If I'm going to be objective about others I can't insist what they experience doesn't work for them. They could be trolling or they could be telling their God honest truth at least what they believe.

So if someone truly believes that vaccines caused their kid to be autistic or that Trump really won the election or that the earth is flat - who am I to say that isn't true. I only see the world through the lens of my experience.

Humans still don't truly understand the nature of the universe or why it even exists. Or how. For all I know, the universe is only me and you are all figments I created. Or maybe it's only you and I'm the figment. Or a Boltzmann brain. Or a simulation run on a black holes edge in a cold and dead universe

I don't have the answer. Do you?

Quote from: JackBlack on August 23, 2022, 04:15:54 PM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 12:42:15 PM

Objective experience is different for everybody

If you truly think that then you entirely fail to understand what objective means.

Your subjective experience is your own, and each person can have a different subjective experience. For example, a colour blind person cannot distinguish between some colours, while other people can. That is their subjective experience.
However, the objective experience is the particular wavelengths of light which are being reflected, emitted and absorbed.
Although I think using the word experience is a bit of a stretch.

I get subjectivity. But I also don't live in another person's head. If I'm going to be objective about others I can't insist what they experience doesn't work for them. They could be trolling or they could be telling their God honest truth at least what they believe.

So if someone truly believes that vaccines caused their kid to be autistic or that Trump really won the election or that the earth is flat - who am I to say that isn't true. I only see the world through the lens of my experience.

Humans still don't truly understand the nature of the universe or why it even exists. Or how. For all I know, the universe is only me and you are all figments I created. Or maybe it's only you and I'm the figment. Or a Boltzmann brain. Or a simulation run on a black holes edge in a cold and dead universe

I don't have the answer. Do you?

Just a reminder that this has been caused by the question "how do days and seasons work?"

You've gone from saying that my question had been answered hundreds of times and that I just need to search the wiki and the forum. Now you're saying that we have no idea how the universe works so maybe we're all living in different realities

So please, point me to one of the hundreds of posts on this forum that has explained this flaw that I've pointed out

This is how far flat earthers go when you ask them to explain days and seasons and you don't immediately accept their nonsensical explanation.

You're showing a perfect example of the intellectual dishonesty I was talking about when I made this post

"My belief doesn't fit reality, so reality must be wrong"

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 09:50:18 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on August 23, 2022, 04:15:54 PM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 12:42:15 PM

Objective experience is different for everybody

If you truly think that then you entirely fail to understand what objective means.

Your subjective experience is your own, and each person can have a different subjective experience. For example, a colour blind person cannot distinguish between some colours, while other people can. That is their subjective experience.
However, the objective experience is the particular wavelengths of light which are being reflected, emitted and absorbed.
Although I think using the word experience is a bit of a stretch.

I get subjectivity. But I also don't live in another person's head. If I'm going to be objective about others I can't insist what they experience doesn't work for them. They could be trolling or they could be telling their God honest truth at least what they believe.

So if someone truly believes that vaccines caused their kid to be autistic or that Trump really won the election or that the earth is flat - who am I to say that isn't true. I only see the world through the lens of my experience.

Humans still don't truly understand the nature of the universe or why it even exists. Or how. For all I know, the universe is only me and you are all figments I created. Or maybe it's only you and I'm the figment. Or a Boltzmann brain. Or a simulation run on a black holes edge in a cold and dead universe

I don't have the answer. Do you?

Just a reminder that this has been caused by the question "how do days and seasons work?"

You've gone from saying that my question had been answered hundreds of times and that I just need to search the wiki and the forum. Now you're saying that we have no idea how the universe works so maybe we're all living in different realities

So please, point me to one of the hundreds of posts on this forum that has explained this flaw that I've pointed out

This is how far flat earthers go when you ask them to explain days and seasons and you don't immediately accept their nonsensical explanation.

You're showing a perfect example of the intellectual dishonesty I was talking about when I made this post

"My belief doesn't fit reality, so reality must be wrong"

To be honest, I just assumed it and left it up to you to check. I cbf doing your work for you

Quote from: JackBlack on August 23, 2022, 04:15:54 PM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 12:42:15 PM

Objective experience is different for everybody

If you truly think that then you entirely fail to understand what objective means.

Your subjective experience is your own, and each person can have a different subjective experience. For example, a colour blind person cannot distinguish between some colours, while other people can. That is their subjective experience.
However, the objective experience is the particular wavelengths of light which are being reflected, emitted and absorbed.
Although I think using the word experience is a bit of a stretch.

I get subjectivity. But I also don't live in another person's head. If I'm going to be objective about others I can't insist what they experience doesn't work for them. They could be trolling or they could be telling their God honest truth at least what they believe.

So if someone truly believes that vaccines caused their kid to be autistic or that Trump really won the election or that the earth is flat - who am I to say that isn't true. I only see the world through the lens of my experience.

Humans still don't truly understand the nature of the universe or why it even exists. Or how. For all I know, the universe is only me and you are all figments I created. Or maybe it's only you and I'm the figment. Or a Boltzmann brain. Or a simulation run on a black holes edge in a cold and dead universe

I don't have the answer. Do you?

The issue is not if you have the answer, it is objectivity.

If all you have is your own subjective opinion, then that is fine, just don't pretend it is objective, and don't try to get others to accept it.

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 09:50:18 PM

Quote from: JackBlack on August 23, 2022, 04:15:54 PM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on August 23, 2022, 12:42:15 PM

Objective experience is different for everybody

If you truly think that then you entirely fail to understand what objective means.

Your subjective experience is your own, and each person can have a different subjective experience. For example, a colour blind person cannot distinguish between some colours, while other people can. That is their subjective experience.
However, the objective experience is the particular wavelengths of light which are being reflected, emitted and absorbed.
Although I think using the word experience is a bit of a stretch.

I get subjectivity. But I also don't live in another person's head. If I'm going to be objective about others I can't insist what they experience doesn't work for them. They could be trolling or they could be telling their God honest truth at least what they believe.

So if someone truly believes that vaccines caused their kid to be autistic or that Trump really won the election or that the earth is flat - who am I to say that isn't true. I only see the world through the lens of my experience.

Humans still don't truly understand the nature of the universe or why it even exists. Or how. For all I know, the universe is only me and you are all figments I created. Or maybe it's only you and I'm the figment. Or a Boltzmann brain. Or a simulation run on a black holes edge in a cold and dead universe

I don't have the answer. Do you?

The issue is not if you have the answer, it is objectivity.

If all you have is your own subjective opinion, then that is fine, just don't pretend it is objective, and don't try to get others to accept it.

I'm not insisting you go along with anyone's delusions. Maybe it really is as simple as that. Just that we don't have all the answers ourselves no matter who we are. So what if the answer is everyone has their own reality and it's real as far as they are concerned?

And can you prove to me you are real just like me? How can I be sure of your individuality - I can only be somewhat sure of my existence. For all I know, you, my wife, kids, etc - are just figments.

We always figured they were.

So what if the answer is everyone has their own reality and it's real as far as they are concerned?

Then it is subjective. Pretty simple to understand.