Air density thought experiment

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JJA

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2022, 10:53:29 AM »
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You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
Where in that link does it back up your claim that these discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model?

Nothing in that link shows any evidence for disputing the theory of gravity, or the shape of the earth not being round.

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2022, 10:33:27 PM »
The issue is what is the relationship between density and how quickly things accelerate.

Those claiming that things fall due to buoyancy don't typically claim the rate is proportional to the difference in density.

The more fundamental issue is why density should make things fall in the first place.


Lots of people believe in God, yet have wildly different theories/perspectives regarding the worship and rules of doing so. Belief in God is an everyday phenomena for many, yet many can't agree. Since they can't agree, does that mean God doesn't exist?
Many different people believe in a different god.
These gods are often mutually exclusive.
They can't all be correct.
So the vast majority are wrong, and the vast majority (if not all gods) don't exist.

Likewise, the vast majority of FE models are wrong, and those Flat Earths don't exist.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2022, 04:11:12 PM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall.

Your arguments are just as emotional, as this example shows.  You are simply stating that gravity is wrong without providing any sources or any math.  I've asked you for sources in many previous discussions and never got any, and have to assume you won't give any here either.

But I will ask anyway, what is your source, evidence, math or measurements that the measured gravitational pull is less than estimated? Estimated by who? Measured where?
Again, I disagree with the theory you are trying to have me defend. If you want to know about that theory, you can use the search.
You disagree with what theory?  The endlessly accelerating Earth?  Or the theory of gravity which causes the Earth to form into a sphere?  Both?
Yes, both.

Quote
You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/

Do you mean this GRACE data (from your link):


Among other sources, yes.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2022, 04:11:55 PM »
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You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
Where in that link does it back up your claim that these discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model?

Nothing in that link shows any evidence for disputing the theory of gravity, or the shape of the earth not being round.
You asked for where we got the data. I provided one of the sources. I'm confused as to why you were expecting NASA to prove the earth flat.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2022, 03:03:12 AM »
The more fundamental issue is why density should make things fall in the first place.

Both density and mass make things fall, because they weren't IN air in the first pace, they were on the surface, and THEN were put up into air, by some sort of FORCE applied to propel them upward off the ground, because they DO have mass and density, which keeps them ON the ground to begin with. Air has less mass and density than objects do, so when objects are forced up into air, their greater mass and density makes them fall down through the air, back to the ground, which has more mass and density than the objects have. That's why they stop when they hit the ground from above it, in the air.

All so very simple, and it all works beautifully. No made up forces are needed to explain all of this. Unless you believe Earth is a ball speeding through an endless space, THEN you have to make up a magical force that HOLDS everything down to Earth's surface, and make up what it can do, which is almost ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, and STILL have to invent so much more beyond that, it's endless, and it always fails to hold up, anyway.

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2022, 04:01:24 AM »
Both density and mass make things fall
Didn't you say things magically go back to their origin, if so, that means it isn't density.
Regardless, you can go back to the prior thread and answer the trivial questions which shows that line of reasoning of yours is pure garbage.

The simple fact is density alone provides no directionality.

All so very simple, and it all works beautifully.
Except it has been shown to be pure garbage which doesn't work at all.
Pretty much every part of what you have said has been shown to be wrong.

Like I said, if you want to discuss it, go back to the prior thread, and deal with water and overhanging rock.
Otherwise, there is no need to drag your nonsense into here as it wont help you.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2022, 04:24:56 AM »
Didn't you say things magically go back to their origin, if so, that means it isn't density.
Regardless, you can go back to the prior thread and answer the trivial questions which shows that line of reasoning of yours is pure garbage.

The simple fact is density alone provides no directionality.

There's no need for density to provide any directionality when in air, objects simply fall straight down through air to the ground, because it is the only direction they ever COULD go, when falling through the air. How could any OTHER direction be possible when in the air? THAT is where something ELSE would have to provide directionality to them, otherwise, they simply fall through air, which directs them down through the air, not sideways, or upwards, or at an angle, which WOULD require them to be directed within air.

Again, this is so simple.

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2022, 05:36:16 AM »
There's no need for density to provide any directionality when in air
Which is simply a way of saying density is not the reason objects fall.
Which is exactly the point I made.

it is the only direction they ever COULD go, when falling through the air.
That is just saying that the only way down is down.
It provides no justification for why they go down.
The question is why they fall in the first place.
Density can't do it, and neither can your BS.

How could any OTHER direction be possible when in the air
Quite easily, as already established in the other thread you fled from after being refuted repeatedly and repeatedly failed to answer a trivial question.
Why should every other direction be impossible?

Again, this is so simple.
Yet you seem completely incapable of understanding it.

Without gravity you have no reason for things to fall.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 05:47:55 AM by JackBlack »

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2022, 06:08:25 AM »

That is just saying that the only way down is down.
It provides no justification for why they go down.
The question is why they fall in the first place.
Density can't do it, and neither can your BS.

Without gravity you have no reason for things to fall.

When you throw a ball up into air, it is only being put up into air, because your arm was used a force, acting on the ball, to cause it to move up in air, right? When in air, the ball slows down, stops, and falls down through the air, without any force acting on it, nor any force NEEDED to act on it, when in air. The ball's mass and density are greater than that of the air, right? So why would there need to be a 'force' to have it fall through air, when it's mass and density MAKE it fall through air? Do you think it would suspend itself in air, when it has MORE mass and density than the air, unless it was 'pulled down from below', by some force?  The only reason you COULD throw it up into air, is because it has more mass and density than the air, and that's why you had to apply FORCE to make it go upward. Once it IS in air, no force is needed to make it fall down through the air, it's mass and density alone do that, being greater than the mass and density of the air, the same reason you could throw it up INTO air, is the reason it falls down through it.

No force is needed to keep things on the surface, our mass and density do that for us. The air ABOVE the surface is where nothing is, unless put up there first. You don't need to make up magical forces to explain any of this, it's only mass and density that are needed, and nothing else.

Imagine you were able to create a world, and put life and objects ON that world. You create the entire environment FOR that world. And if you wish to have all things on it's surface, and breathe air above that surface, you'd need no magical 'pulling down' force to make everything STAY on the surface, would you? No, because it is a CONTAINED, CONTROLLED world you'd create, and that's about as SIMPLE a way to create it, for sure.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2022, 06:46:38 AM »
But why down.  What makes it go down.  What makes it move, aka where does that force come from and why that vector.

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JJA

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2022, 08:38:50 AM »
Quote
You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
Where in that link does it back up your claim that these discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model?

Nothing in that link shows any evidence for disputing the theory of gravity, or the shape of the earth not being round.
You asked for where we got the data. I provided one of the sources. I'm confused as to why you were expecting NASA to prove the earth flat.
Sigh.  I asked you to back up your claim that the discrepancies are "less than estimated in the round earth model" multiple times now.

Your exact quote for reference in case you forgot: "Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall."

I'm asking how you determined this. What are the discrepancies? Can you point one out?

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2022, 08:55:03 AM »

That is just saying that the only way down is down.
It provides no justification for why they go down.
The question is why they fall in the first place.
Density can't do it, and neither can your BS.

Without gravity you have no reason for things to fall.

When you throw a ball up into air, it is only being put up into air, because your arm was used a force, acting on the ball, to cause it to move up in air, right? When in air, the ball slows down, stops, and falls down through the air, without any force acting on it, nor any force NEEDED to act on it, when in air. The ball's mass and density are greater than that of the air, right? So why would there need to be a 'force' to have it fall through air, when it's mass and density MAKE it fall through air? Do you think it would suspend itself in air, when it has MORE mass and density than the air, unless it was 'pulled down from below', by some force?  The only reason you COULD throw it up into air, is because it has more mass and density than the air, and that's why you had to apply FORCE to make it go upward. Once it IS in air, no force is needed to make it fall down through the air, it's mass and density alone do that, being greater than the mass and density of the air, the same reason you could throw it up INTO air, is the reason it falls down through it.

No force is needed to keep things on the surface, our mass and density do that for us. The air ABOVE the surface is where nothing is, unless put up there first. You don't need to make up magical forces to explain any of this, it's only mass and density that are needed, and nothing else.

Imagine you were able to create a world, and put life and objects ON that world. You create the entire environment FOR that world. And if you wish to have all things on it's surface, and breathe air above that surface, you'd need no magical 'pulling down' force to make everything STAY on the surface, would you? No, because it is a CONTAINED, CONTROLLED world you'd create, and that's about as SIMPLE a way to create it, for sure.

Turbonium you're so close to understanding it. You're just describing gravity but have a fear of saying the G word.

You're correct that throwing a ball in the air requires force, it's then common sense that a second force is needed to bring it back down again.

How do flat earthers explain weighing scales? Imagine you've got a set of glass kitchen scales like this

https://azcd.harveynorman.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/21/image/992x558/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/k/s/ks34-beurer-ks34-glass-digital-kitchen-scale.jpg

Then you put an apple on top of it, it'll show you the weight of the apple.

The apple is at rest, according to your logic there is no force acting on it because you've said there is no downwards force. The density of an apple is less than glass, so the arrangement of the relative densities is correct, the lower density object is already above the higher density one.

So we can rule out density as the cause, as the two objects are already in the correct arrangement as per their densities. We're just left with mass, but according to you there is no downwards force, so there should be nothing pushing or pulling the apple downwards to make it trigger the scales and show the apple's weight. So by your logic, the scales should read 0.

Obviously when anyone does this basic test the scales do not read 0. The scientific explanation is that gravity acts on the mass of the apple and therefore displays the apple's weight on the scale.

With density ruled out as the cause, and no downwards force, how do flat earthers explain this turbonium?

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2022, 01:58:57 PM »
When you throw a ball up into air, it is only being put up into air
You have tried and failed with this BS in the other thread.
This thread is not about it.
This thread is about the idea that density is what causes things to fall. Not some BS idea of where the object originated.

If you want to keep pedaling that failed BS of yours, go back to the prior thread and address the simple question you fled from because it destroyed your claim.

Here is a link to the post you refused to respond to:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=90083.msg2361527#msg2361527

So go back there and respond.
Your nonsense has no place here.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2022, 12:21:47 AM »
We are partially buoyant whilst walking the ground which is why we can actually walk, run and jump.
We are held down by a stacked atmosphere like I said many times before.

Our bodies have a lot of gases within, in various configurations. It allows us minor buoyancy but not enough to allow our dense mass to overcome the mass of the atmosphere above and around us unless we use our own force to move it out of the way which will allow us to gain a height based on the applied energy for as long as that energy can be maintained.

If we jump into a deep pool or sea we can become much more buoyant if we hold the air inside of us. If we push that air out into the atmosphere that very same air we push out will also act back onto us, meaning we get crushed down into the water a little bit more, and the more gases we let out the more crushed we become, and the less buoyant we become.


If we could survive like a seabed creature we could do exactly the same as we do on land, which would be to walk and jump but be crushed back, yet resist the crush with enough dense mass to allow movement, even when crushed back down after an energising push-up.


If we were likened to a minimally inflated balloon on the land as we see ourselves, we can see how hard it would be to jump up to any reasonable height to overcome atmospheric pressure upon us, yet if we were to be inflated and live we could be pushed up and overcome atmospheric pressure but then see how the atmospheric pressure below us actually resists out descent much more due to the actual area of the dense mass being much greater.


To sit and think about it it all comes down to dense mass versus gas configuration both inside the mass and outside of it.

Denpressure.

Shock horror.



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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2022, 01:07:46 AM »
atmospheric pressure
Which, as has been repeatedly established, pushes us up, not down.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2022, 01:16:30 AM »
atmospheric pressure
Which, as has been repeatedly established, pushes us up, not down.
It actually does both.

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Stash

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2022, 01:21:17 AM »
If we jump into a deep pool or sea we can become much more buoyant if we hold the air inside of us. If we push that air out into the atmosphere that very same air we push out will also act back onto us, meaning we get crushed down into the water a little bit more, and the more gases we let out the more crushed we become, and the less buoyant we become.

How does the very same air I push out then push down on just me? If there are five people closely circling me in the water as we float, are you saying that my exhale of air then pushes down all 6 of us?

Or are you saying that somehow, the exhaled air 'knows' to only push down on me, leaving the other 5 un-pushed? If so, how does the exhaled air 'know' to only push on me and npot the other 5 people a foot away?

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2022, 03:15:05 AM »
atmospheric pressure
Which, as has been repeatedly established, pushes us up, not down.
It actually does both.
With the net effect being pushing objects upwards.
This is because the pressure is greater below the object.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2022, 03:27:56 AM »
If we jump into a deep pool or sea we can become much more buoyant if we hold the air inside of us. If we push that air out into the atmosphere that very same air we push out will also act back onto us, meaning we get crushed down into the water a little bit more, and the more gases we let out the more crushed we become, and the less buoyant we become.

How does the very same air I push out then push down on just me? If there are five people closely circling me in the water as we float, are you saying that my exhale of air then pushes down all 6 of us?

Or are you saying that somehow, the exhaled air 'knows' to only push down on me, leaving the other 5 un-pushed? If so, how does the exhaled air 'know' to only push on me and not the other 5 people a foot away?
It becomes part of the atmosphere and will have minimal effect on anything other than you.
Why?
Because you created that by allowing the water and air to crush back onto you by releasing what was inside you.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2022, 03:31:56 AM »
atmospheric pressure
Which, as has been repeatedly established, pushes us up, not down.
It actually does both.
With the net effect being pushing objects upwards.
This is because the pressure is greater below the object.
The pressure is greater below until you (dense mass) are in that equation, then the push from above alters that by your displacement of it.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2022, 03:48:30 AM »
atmospheric pressure
Which, as has been repeatedly established, pushes us up, not down.
It actually does both.
With the net effect being pushing objects upwards.
This is because the pressure is greater below the object.
The pressure is greater below until you (dense mass) are in that equation, then the push from above alters that by your displacement of it.

1. An object moving without a force to cause the movement is not possible
2. Density and mass are just properties of matter, they cannot cause things to move on their own as they are not forces

Flat earthers continue to refuse to understand these two basic things and therefore invent pseudoscience to try to explain gravity without saying "gravity"

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2022, 04:17:06 AM »
The pressure is greater below until you (dense mass) are in that equation
Nope, even with the dense mass in the equation, the pressure is still greater below you, with the air pushing you up and reducing your weight.

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Stash

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2022, 11:12:35 AM »
If we jump into a deep pool or sea we can become much more buoyant if we hold the air inside of us. If we push that air out into the atmosphere that very same air we push out will also act back onto us, meaning we get crushed down into the water a little bit more, and the more gases we let out the more crushed we become, and the less buoyant we become.

How does the very same air I push out then push down on just me? If there are five people closely circling me in the water as we float, are you saying that my exhale of air then pushes down all 6 of us?

Or are you saying that somehow, the exhaled air 'knows' to only push down on me, leaving the other 5 un-pushed? If so, how does the exhaled air 'know' to only push on me and not the other 5 people a foot away?
It becomes part of the atmosphere and will have minimal effect on anything other than you.
Why?
Because you created that by allowing the water and air to crush back onto you by releasing what was inside you.

The the air and water 'know' to only crush back on me because it came from me? Interesting. I wasn't aware that air & water were sentient.

And what about the people around me a foot away? What if I blow my air in the face of the person next to me, will that person then be targeted by the air and water and rise up instead of me?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2022, 09:15:46 PM »
atmospheric pressure
Which, as has been repeatedly established, pushes us up, not down.
It actually does both.
With the net effect being pushing objects upwards.
This is because the pressure is greater below the object.
The pressure is greater below until you (dense mass) are in that equation, then the push from above alters that by your displacement of it.

1. An object moving without a force to cause the movement is not possible
2. Density and mass are just properties of matter, they cannot cause things to move on their own as they are not forces

Flat earthers continue to refuse to understand these two basic things and therefore invent pseudoscience to try to explain gravity without saying "gravity"
Nothing moves without applied energy/force.

And gravity is the pseudo-science.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2022, 09:18:09 PM »
The pressure is greater below until you (dense mass) are in that equation
Nope, even with the dense mass in the equation, the pressure is still greater below you, with the air pushing you up and reducing your weight.
I agree the pressure of the matter is greater below because everything is stacked above.
But to see it from both points you have to see it as pressure from all angles when a dense mass is placed within it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2022, 09:33:35 PM »
The the air and water 'know' to only crush back on me because it came from me? Interesting. I wasn't aware that air & water were sentient.

When you displace something it's going to crush back onto you by the same amount of pressure as you displaced.
Quote from: Stash
And what about the people around me a foot away? What if I blow my air in the face of the person next to me, will that person then be targeted by the air and water and rise up instead of me?
Have a think about it.

Let's make this simpler for you.

Imagine you are in a small pool alone and the water is one inch from the brim. The water you are in is also under pressure from above by air that takes up that inch from the brim and all of above into the sky.

You are already displacing the water to get to one inch from the brim but before you got in it was 2 inches from the brim.
Your inch of water has been pushed into the air by the very same amount as you took up before you entered the pool.

If I step into the pool I then displace another inch of water (assuming the same dense mass) and the air my dense mass has displaced outside by my body shape alone is now dispersed by the pool itself. The entirety of my body displacing its own dense mass of the water it is in.

As much as you think none of that affects you you can now understand that it does but it's negligent to you because your own dense mass is doing the same as mine so we naturally don't think anything affects us in those scenarios but minimally they actually do.

Basically, you were in water one inch from the brim. You're now in water to the brim because of me, so obviously it affects you minimally.

Nothing to do with arguing sentient stuff.

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Stash

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2022, 11:19:32 PM »
The the air and water 'know' to only crush back on me because it came from me? Interesting. I wasn't aware that air & water were sentient.

When you displace something it's going to crush back onto you by the same amount of pressure as you displaced.
Quote from: Stash
And what about the people around me a foot away? What if I blow my air in the face of the person next to me, will that person then be targeted by the air and water and rise up instead of me?
Have a think about it.

Let's make this simpler for you.

Imagine you are in a small pool alone and the water is one inch from the brim. The water you are in is also under pressure from above by air that takes up that inch from the brim and all of above into the sky.

You are already displacing the water to get to one inch from the brim but before you got in it was 2 inches from the brim.
Your inch of water has been pushed into the air by the very same amount as you took up before you entered the pool.

If I step into the pool I then displace another inch of water (assuming the same dense mass) and the air my dense mass has displaced outside by my body shape alone is now dispersed by the pool itself. The entirety of my body displacing its own dense mass of the water it is in.

As much as you think none of that affects you you can now understand that it does but it's negligent to you because your own dense mass is doing the same as mine so we naturally don't think anything affects us in those scenarios but minimally they actually do.

Basically, you were in water one inch from the brim. You're now in water to the brim because of me, so obviously it affects you minimally.

Nothing to do with arguing sentient stuff.

I and the others around me are not in a kiddie pool. We're in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. How does my displacement work there?

I thought we weren't talking about displacement, but how me exhaling only impacts me and not the other people very near to me when my exhale has somehow caused a pressure push across the entire earth.  How does the air know to only impact me out in the middle of the ocean circled by my 5 very close friends?

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JackBlack

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2022, 01:00:57 AM »
Nothing moves without applied energy/force.
And we know the air applies a net force upwards, and thus isn't causing the force/isn't the force.
We also know that something has to be pushing the air down to keep it pressurised.

And gravity is the pseudo-science.
Are you sure about that?
If it is the pseudo-science, why is it capable of producing a coherent model to explain observations, and why is backed up by mountains of evidence?

I agree the pressure of the matter is greater below because everything is stacked above.
But to see it from both points you have to see it as pressure from all angles when a dense mass is placed within it.
I understand that it is pressure from all angles.
And I understand the effect of that pressure.
But the pressure is not equal from all angles.
The pressure is greater the lower down it is.
It can also be made greater by air currents, especially those that are blocked, such as wind which blows objects.

The simple fact the pressure from calm air is greatest below an object which results in a net upwards force.
The air cannot push things down, as it is trying to push it up.

We see this with objects weighing less when they have the air inside evacuated, and them weighing less when submerged (even partly) into a fluid more dense than air.

When you displace something it's going to crush back onto you by the same amount of pressure as you displaced.
Why?
Why does it only crash back on you? Why doesn't it crash back on everything?
Why you push air into a balloon, why does it push on the balloon and cause the balloon to be pushed out?
Why doesn't it only push back on my mouth or me?

As much as you think none of that affects you you can now understand that it does
You were the one claiming it only affects the person breathing out.
But now you contradict yourself and claim it should affect everyone?

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Username

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2022, 01:18:25 PM »
Quote
You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
Where in that link does it back up your claim that these discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model?

Nothing in that link shows any evidence for disputing the theory of gravity, or the shape of the earth not being round.
You asked for where we got the data. I provided one of the sources. I'm confused as to why you were expecting NASA to prove the earth flat.
Sigh.  I asked you to back up your claim that the discrepancies are "less than estimated in the round earth model" multiple times now.
And I've told you again and again that I'm not going to spend my time defending a model I don't hold is true.

Quote
Your exact quote for reference in case you forgot: "Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall."
Yes, in reference to the model being discussed. Which I don't hold is true. I can't count the number of times I've said this and I'm just going to stop responding now.

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I'm asking how you determined this. What are the discrepancies? Can you point one out?
The discrepancies are the ones you yourself pointed out that had to do with why it isn't a constant 9.8m/s/s everywhere. We determined this by cross referencing GRACe and other data with local geography.

As I said earlier, I'm sure you can find information about this within these forums.

AGAIN: I find both the air density theories and the accelerating earth to be ridiculous. The only benefit to the accelerating earth is that it has an answer to this question where as density theories do not. No, I don't care to defend this statement - I am simply relating one of the theories to you. They are indeed both ridiculous.

Jesus fucking christ man. Read the thread.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 01:20:01 PM by Username »

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JJA

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2022, 02:07:54 PM »
Quote
You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
Where in that link does it back up your claim that these discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model?

Nothing in that link shows any evidence for disputing the theory of gravity, or the shape of the earth not being round.
You asked for where we got the data. I provided one of the sources. I'm confused as to why you were expecting NASA to prove the earth flat.
Sigh.  I asked you to back up your claim that the discrepancies are "less than estimated in the round earth model" multiple times now.
And I've told you again and again that I'm not going to spend my time defending a model I don't hold is true.

If you make a claim, you can't get upset when people ask you to back it up or clarify it.

Quote
Your exact quote for reference in case you forgot: "Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall."
Yes, in reference to the model being discussed. Which I don't hold is true. I can't count the number of times I've said this and I'm just going to stop responding now.

If you make a claim, you can't get upset when people ask you to back it up or clarify it.

Quote
I'm asking how you determined this. What are the discrepancies? Can you point one out?
The discrepancies are the ones you yourself pointed out that had to do with why it isn't a constant 9.8m/s/s everywhere. We determined this by cross referencing GRACe and other data with local geography.

Yes, the Earth's gravity varies based on the density of the underlying material. This is entirely expected and normal. You were saying these variations are less than expected... and I keep asking less than expected by who? Flat earthers? Scientists? Jesus Christ? Gandhi?

If you make vague statements you are going to get asked questions about them.  This isn't even a debate, I'm simply asking just what the heck you are talking about.

I swear 99% of flat earth posts on this site is giving people the runaround when being asked for details.  Normally people just explain what they were saying.  Not spend days deflecting.

As I said earlier, I'm sure you can find information about this within these forums.

AGAIN: I find both the air density theories and the accelerating earth to be ridiculous. The only benefit to the accelerating earth is that it has an answer to this question where as density theories do not. No, I don't care to defend this statement - I am simply relating one of the theories to you. They are indeed both ridiculous.

Jesus fucking christ man. Read the thread.

I am reading the thread, and you mentioned "the round earth model" having "less than expected" discrepancies.  YOu have yet to show any or even slightly clarify what you are trying to say there.

It's such a simple question.  I don't understand all the angst.