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Total Members Voted: 6

Why do you support Ron DeSantis?

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #510 on: August 10, 2023, 07:00:41 AM »
I read a shakespeare 9 10 11 12

Pfff  usa education...

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #511 on: August 10, 2023, 08:13:44 AM »
It's just cutbacks to make room for more valuable material in the classrooms.

Like Prager U.

https://time.com/6301287/florida-prageru-education-schools/
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #512 on: August 10, 2023, 08:24:38 AM »

Didn't do NSS any harm, ........................Ppffff.
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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #513 on: August 10, 2023, 01:41:27 PM »
No it isn't. NPR has been captured by partisan hacks and weirdos. The title of the article alone should give you a clue that the article is bullshit. First of all, Florida doesn't have any "Don't Say Gay" laws. The article also leaves out the part where the teachers want more time to teach what the students will need to learn so they can pass the FAST. I seriously doubt Shakespeare was ever a big part of the curriculum to begin with.

From my source (the very first sentence) -

Quote
Plans in Hillsborough County schools to reduce the works of William Shakespeare to excerpts were met with derision by state education officials on Tuesday.

Hillsborough County decided to do this on their own. Every hacky mainstream media outlet ran with "Don't Say Gay". How many of them tried to get clarification before publishing? How many of them did any actual journalism? All the news sources we should be able to trust have turned over to the outrage model. Get 'em frothy, make them click!

How much Shakespeare did you read out loud in class when you were in school? I was in advanced classes, I don't remember ever reading Shakespeare out loud in class.

"Don't say gay" is the way opponents are referring to the Parental Rights in Education bill.  Which, unless I'm mistaken, prohibits the discussion of sexual orientation or gender identity in classes of a specific age groups and context.
Clearly this school disctrict is afraid of said law so they are acting to avoid it.  Fear, it seems, is keeping them in line.
And the NPR article clearly states that its the school that made that choice so not sure why you're saying otherwise.

Quote
The changes to the Hillsborough County Public Schools' curriculum guides were made with Florida's new laws prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in mind. Other reasons included revised state standards and an effort to get students to read a wide variety of books for new state exams, the school district said in an emailed statement on Tuesday.

As for how much shakespear I read aloud:
Hamlet.  Othello.  Romeo and Juliet.  Much ado about nothing.  The taming of the shrew.  The Tempest.
And possibly others that I have forgotten.

Tho in fairness, some of those were done in a class specifically on Shakespear.  Reading and comprehension of various bits that wouldn't make sense in a modern setting.  Like biting one's thumb at someone else.  And all the sexual jokes.  Because Shakespar made plays for nobles and peasants.  He had high dialog in some parts and low crass violence and sex in others.  A feast for the eyes and ears of nobles and peasants alike.




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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #514 on: August 10, 2023, 03:23:56 PM »
"Don't Say Gay" was invented by the media, I know what law they are actually referring to. They insist on beclowning themselves by calling it "Don't Say Gay".  Which makes the retarts who get their news from them think that you can't say "gay" in Florida schools. It also makes it more difficult to be critical of the bill when the media lies about it.

Alright, so you read Shakespeare out loud in a class about Shakespeare. Did you take that class in high school?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #515 on: August 10, 2023, 09:09:08 PM »
"Don't Say Gay" was invented by the media, I know what law they are actually referring to. They insist on beclowning themselves by calling it "Don't Say Gay".  Which makes the retarts who get their news from them think that you can't say "gay" in Florida schools. It also makes it more difficult to be critical of the bill when the media lies about it.

Alright, so you read Shakespeare out loud in a class about Shakespeare. Did you take that class in high school?
Yes.
But now that I think about it, I think my first taste was 9th grade with romeo and juliet.  But if it was earlier, I can't say as that was over 20 years ago.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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wise

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #516 on: August 11, 2023, 03:47:48 AM »

Didn't do NSS any harm, ........................Ppffff.
This is unacceptable! >:(
1+2+3+...+∞= 1



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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #517 on: August 11, 2023, 06:43:43 AM »
"Don't Say Gay" was invented by the media, I know what law they are actually referring to. They insist on beclowning themselves by calling it "Don't Say Gay".  Which makes the retarts who get their news from them think that you can't say "gay" in Florida schools. It also makes it more difficult to be critical of the bill when the media lies about it.

Alright, so you read Shakespeare out loud in a class about Shakespeare. Did you take that class in high school?
Yes.
But now that I think about it, I think my first taste was 9th grade with romeo and juliet.  But if it was earlier, I can't say as that was over 20 years ago.

The Hillsborough school district should have people smart enough to read the law and know that it pertains to students from kindergarten thru 8th grade. They should be smart enough to know that Shakespeare is part of Florida's curriculum. I think they know all this, and do these things to fuel the anti-DeSantis media cycle.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #518 on: August 11, 2023, 06:52:27 AM »

Do you really need to make shit up to trash that moron?
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #519 on: August 11, 2023, 09:15:37 AM »
No, they don't! But I think the Dems want to make sure Trump is the nominee. They are thinking that if he is still under the cloud of all these indictments that Biden will have the best chance of winning. We just have to hope Biden doesn't have a Mitch McConnell moment on camera. Not that the media would spill as much ink on a Biden stroke (or whatever that was) as they have on McConnell's.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #520 on: August 11, 2023, 09:50:20 AM »
Desantis turned out worst than cruz

Its amazing how all he had to do was just be a normal human.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #521 on: August 11, 2023, 11:32:03 AM »
I don't understand the prejudice against the dead in congress.  We have several members of congress that have clearly passed away.  It doesn't seem to impede their ability to govern.
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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #522 on: August 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM »
Didnt shakespears use males to dress up as ladies?

Ohnoooooo
All theatre in the Elizabethan "Golden Age" were men only troupes.  As the Church was worried what they would get up to otherwise.

Ironically when the Puritans got in they were worried that theatres were now a nest of gayness and got women actors back in again.
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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #523 on: August 11, 2023, 12:07:54 PM »
"Don't Say Gay" was invented by the media, I know what law they are actually referring to. They insist on beclowning themselves by calling it "Don't Say Gay".  Which makes the retarts who get their news from them think that you can't say "gay" in Florida schools. It also makes it more difficult to be critical of the bill when the media lies about it.

Alright, so you read Shakespeare out loud in a class about Shakespeare. Did you take that class in high school?
Yes.
But now that I think about it, I think my first taste was 9th grade with romeo and juliet.  But if it was earlier, I can't say as that was over 20 years ago.

The Hillsborough school district should have people smart enough to read the law and know that it pertains to students from kindergarten thru 8th grade. They should be smart enough to know that Shakespeare is part of Florida's curriculum. I think they know all this, and do these things to fuel the anti-DeSantis media cycle.

K-12 actually.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/florida-education-board-vote-extending-ban-gender-identity-lessons-2023-04-19/

The law was expanded.

Also, I do not believe Shakespeare is part of the curriculum.  I did a search here: https://www.cpalms.org/Public/search/Standard
And found no mention of Shakespeare, tho I could be using it incorrectly.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #524 on: August 11, 2023, 12:51:36 PM »
The regulation (not part of the Parental Rights in Education law) says they can't teach sexual orientation or gender identity "unless the instruction is required by state standards or is part of a health class that parents can opt their children out of". The law did not expand, that is not how laws work. In order to expand the existing law, they'd have to go though the vote process again. This more like an executive order.

I don't know how to search the cpalms website, either. I had a look around, but I didn't see any books listed. I did search for Shakespeare in literature and got two results, but they don't specifically name any works. I think those are guidelines, and it's up to the teachers to decide what books to use, and Shakespeare would be an option.

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #525 on: August 11, 2023, 08:44:55 PM »
Didnt shakespears use males to dress up as ladies?

Ohnoooooo
All theatre in the Elizabethan "Golden Age" were men only troupes.  As the Church was worried what they would get up to otherwise.

Ironically when the Puritans got in they were worried that theatres were now a nest of gayness and got women actors back in again.

I was wondering if Lady MacBeth was secretly trans.   You know that bit where she exclaims "unsex me here"

I bet there are English Lit majors who have written papers on that very subject...  LOL
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #526 on: August 11, 2023, 11:15:44 PM »
The regulation (not part of the Parental Rights in Education law) says they can't teach sexual orientation or gender identity "unless the instruction is required by state standards or is part of a health class that parents can opt their children out of". The law did not expand, that is not how laws work. In order to expand the existing law, they'd have to go though the vote process again. This more like an executive order.

I don't know how to search the cpalms website, either. I had a look around, but I didn't see any books listed. I did search for Shakespeare in literature and got two results, but they don't specifically name any works. I think those are guidelines, and it's up to the teachers to decide what books to use, and Shakespeare would be an option.

Then what did the executive order do?  Because it reads like they took the guidelines from k-8 and applied it to 9-12 as well.  But I'd have to see what the state standards are in regards to those subjects. 
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #527 on: August 12, 2023, 07:21:45 AM »
I copy/pasted this from a pdf (I HATES PDFS). Anyway, reading laws makes me tired, but from what I can gather the Parental Rights in Education statute was expanded to 12th grade by the Florida dept of Education.  So they didn't change the law itself, but made it apply to all grades.

6A-10.081 Principles of Professional Conduct for the
Education Profession in Florida.
(1) No change.
(2) Florida educators shall comply with the following
disciplinary principles. Violation of any of these principles shall
subject the individual to revocation or suspension of the
individual educator’s certificate, or the other penalties as
provided by law.
(a) Obligation to the student requires that the individual:
1. through 5. No change.
6. Shall not intentionally provide classroom instruction to
students in prekindergarten through grade 3 on sexual
orientation or gender identity.
7. Shall not intentionally provide classroom instruction to
students in grades 4 through 12 on sexual orientation or gender
identity unless such instruction is either expressly required by
state academic standards as adopted in Rule 6A-1.09401,
F.A.C., or is part of a reproductive health course or health
lesson for which a student’s parent has the option to have his or
her student not attend.
8. 7. Shall not intentionally violate or deny a student’s legal
rights.
9. 8. Shall not discourage or prohibit parental notification
of and involvement in critical decisions affecting a student’s
mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being unless the
individual reasonably believes that disclosure would result in
abuse, abandonment, or neglect as defined in Section 39.01,
F.S.
10. 9. Shall not harass or discriminate against any student
on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, national or ethnic
origin, political beliefs, marital status, handicapping condition,
sexual orientation, or social and family background and shall
make reasonable effort to assure that each student is protected
from harassment or discrimination. Discrimination on the basis
of race, color, national origin, or sex includes subjecting any
student to training or instruction that espouses, promotes,
advances, inculcates, or compels such student to believe any of
the concepts listed in s. Section 1000.05(4)(a), F.S.
11. 10. Shall not exploit a relationship with a student for
personal gain or advantage.
12. 11. Shall keep in confidence personally identifiable
information obtained in the course of professional service,
unless disclosure serves professional purposes or is required by
law.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #528 on: August 12, 2023, 11:40:44 AM »
The regulation (not part of the Parental Rights in Education law) says they can't teach sexual orientation or gender identity "unless the instruction is required by state standards or is part of a health class that parents can opt their children out of". The law did not expand, that is not how laws work. In order to expand the existing law, they'd have to go though the vote process again. This more like an executive order.

I don't know how to search the cpalms website, either. I had a look around, but I didn't see any books listed. I did search for Shakespeare in literature and got two results, but they don't specifically name any works. I think those are guidelines, and it's up to the teachers to decide what books to use, and Shakespeare would be an option.

Then what did the executive order do?  Because it reads like they took the guidelines from k-8 and applied it to 9-12 as well.  But I'd have to see what the state standards are in regards to those subjects.

The text of the bill was obnoxiously vague.  It implied k-8 but a literal interpretation would be any grade they felt like.

Under the text of the bill applying the standards to grade school is completely valid.  Then on a whim deciding it applied to all grades is also completely valid.
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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #529 on: August 12, 2023, 12:49:19 PM »
I copy/pasted this from a pdf (I HATES PDFS). Anyway, reading laws makes me tired, but from what I can gather the Parental Rights in Education statute was expanded to 12th grade by the Florida dept of Education.  So they didn't change the law itself, but made it apply to all grades.

6A-10.081 Principles of Professional Conduct for the
Education Profession in Florida.
(1) No change.
(2) Florida educators shall comply with the following
disciplinary principles. Violation of any of these principles shall
subject the individual to revocation or suspension of the
individual educator’s certificate, or the other penalties as
provided by law.
(a) Obligation to the student requires that the individual:
1. through 5. No change.
6. Shall not intentionally provide classroom instruction to
students in prekindergarten through grade 3 on sexual
orientation or gender identity.
7. Shall not intentionally provide classroom instruction to
students in grades 4 through 12 on sexual orientation or gender
identity unless such instruction is either expressly required by
state academic standards as adopted in Rule 6A-1.09401,
F.A.C., or is part of a reproductive health course or health
lesson for which a student’s parent has the option to have his or
her student not attend.
8. 7. Shall not intentionally violate or deny a student’s legal
rights.
9. 8. Shall not discourage or prohibit parental notification
of and involvement in critical decisions affecting a student’s
mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being unless the
individual reasonably believes that disclosure would result in
abuse, abandonment, or neglect as defined in Section 39.01,
F.S.
10. 9. Shall not harass or discriminate against any student
on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, national or ethnic
origin, political beliefs, marital status, handicapping condition,
sexual orientation, or social and family background and shall
make reasonable effort to assure that each student is protected
from harassment or discrimination. Discrimination on the basis
of race, color, national origin, or sex includes subjecting any
student to training or instruction that espouses, promotes,
advances, inculcates, or compels such student to believe any of
the concepts listed in s. Section 1000.05(4)(a), F.S.
11. 10. Shall not exploit a relationship with a student for
personal gain or advantage.
12. 11. Shall keep in confidence personally identifiable
information obtained in the course of professional service,
unless disclosure serves professional purposes or is required by
law.

I can see why any school would be afraid.

It says you can't intentionally instruct prek-3 rd graders about gender identity but fails to explain what that means.  If I were to say "My Husband works at a bank.  And I work here.  Where does your parents work?" It could be viewed as intentional instruction on sexual orientation.  Or maybe not.  The law doesn't specify.

Also the law is the same for all grades with the exception that the educational board can approve things for 4-12.  So if I were to be teaching 12th grade english and go off topic about how Shakespear may have been bisexual based on the sonnets he wrote, i could violate the law.  Or maybe not.  Its impossible to know based on what you copied.

I can also see how this could be abused.  Teaching 1st graders about mommies and daddies could be illegal as thats teaching sexual orientation of heterosexuality.


Also:

Quote
8. 7. Shall not intentionally violate or deny a student’s legal
rights.
.....
10. 9. Shall not harass or discriminate against any student
on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, national or ethnic
origin, political beliefs, marital status, handicapping condition,
sexual orientation, or social and family background and shall
make reasonable effort to assure that each student is protected
from harassment or discrimination. Discrimination on the basis
of race, color, national origin, or sex includes subjecting any
student to training or instruction that espouses, promotes,
advances, inculcates, or compels such student to believe any of
the concepts listed in s. Section 1000.05(4)(a), F.S.
11. 10. Shall not exploit a relationship with a student for
personal gain or advantage.
12. 11. Shall keep in confidence personally identifiable
information obtained in the course of professional service,
unless disclosure serves professional purposes or is required by
law.

How were those not illegal before?!  Or at least against policy?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 12:53:45 PM by Lorddave »
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #530 on: August 12, 2023, 03:39:07 PM »
I really can't see why a teacher would be talking to a little kid about gender identity or sexual orientation at all. K-3rd grade is about learning to read, write, and do basic math. There's not even health class at that age. 1st grade teachers aren't teaching about "mommies and daddies".

If you were teaching Shakespeare and started wondering about his sex life out loud to the class, I would think you were a creep.

There are lots of things written into new laws that are already in old laws. I don't know, maybe this law supersedes an older law.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #531 on: August 13, 2023, 03:08:51 AM »

If you were teaching Shakespeare and started wondering about his sex life out loud to the class, I would think you were a creep.

If you were reading Shakespearian sonnets to 6 year olds, I suspect they'd be soundly asleep before you can get to what his admiration for a well turned male calf might mean.

Instead, of course, you should be teaching them Richard III and the intricacies of the internecine conflict now referred to as the War of the Roses.  Kids love that.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #532 on: August 13, 2023, 06:24:19 AM »
A tempest in a teacup is really about Shakespeare stirring his tea with his dong.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #533 on: August 13, 2023, 11:03:02 AM »
I really can't see why a teacher would be talking to a little kid about gender identity or sexual orientation at all. K-3rd grade is about learning to read, write, and do basic math. There's not even health class at that age. 1st grade teachers aren't teaching about "mommies and daddies".
???
Soo... The teacher will never be like "Ok class, today we're going to talk about families.  Mother, father, sister, brother, cousin, aunt, uncle, etc..."? Because I did that.  Hell, my son did that.  The family unit is part of education at those grade levels.
"The mother of my mother is my...?"


 
But the law is vague in what constitutes instruction.  Like I said before, just mentioning my spouse could be considered instruction.
[/Quote]

Quote
If you were teaching Shakespeare and started wondering about his sex life out loud to the class, I would think you were a creep.
That is literally what is sonnets are about tho.
His sonnets appear to be broken into three main groups:
One to a white lady who wasn't his wife.
One to an ebony (princess?) Who also wasn't his wife.
One to a man.

So... Yeah, his sexual preferences come up alot in that context.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #534 on: August 13, 2023, 11:39:46 AM »
Isn't it like one sonnet out of 150?

Anyway, are you seriously teaching Shakespeare's sonnets to young kids (or anyone) in American schools?  It's hard to imagine - what do they make of it?

If you really want to put them off, do the Two Gentlemen of Verona - that's a real stinker.  You can try to explain why the attempted rape at the end is passed off as a bit of a slight misunderstanding.   :P
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #535 on: August 13, 2023, 12:10:40 PM »
No, Shakespeare hasn't been a big part of any curriculum in the US before university. There are so many other authors to choose from. I think if a teacher is a fan of Shakespeare, then that class might have more Shakespeare. If the teacher is a fan of someone else, then that person would have more focus. They're not teaching specific authors, they're teaching comprehension, composition, analysis, etc.

lorddave, you just repeat the scenarios the weirdo journalists come up with, but no one is getting in trouble for mentioning their spouse.

Also, if there's a lesson on the family unit they're not going to get in trouble for saying "mommies and daddies" or aunts, uncles, cousins, grandmas, etc. It's not teaching about sexual orientation or gender identity.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #536 on: August 17, 2023, 08:47:54 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/us/politics/desantis-debate-strategy.html

A leaked memo of the team of high IQ individuals advising the DeSantis campaign. The strategy they are recommending is attack the other candidates and defend Trump at all costs.

Seems like a great strategy if they want to waste their time and money and guarantee that Donald Trump wins the primary.
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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #537 on: August 17, 2023, 09:28:56 AM »
Trump is going to win the primary, IMO. DeSantis has probably decided to cut his losses and wait.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #538 on: August 17, 2023, 09:48:32 AM »
Actually its brilliant.

Help Trump.  Praise him.  Then push to be his VP pick.
Even if Trump goes to jail, he'll still be on the ballot as well as the VP.
If he wins the general election but is in Jail, 25th amendment will apply and Trump will be removed and his VP becomes president.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #539 on: August 17, 2023, 02:12:50 PM »
trump'll never give him VP.