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Why do you support Ron DeSantis?

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Crouton

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Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« on: June 26, 2022, 02:06:55 PM »
Well it looks like this is going to be a thing we need to discuss.

My opinion of the man is not good. Though I admit I spent 75% of my time in a liberal media bubble.

I am open to the possibility that my impressions are wrong though. I hope they are since there's a real possibility he'll be our next president.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2022, 03:41:49 PM »
Quote from: Crouton on June 26, 2022, 02:06:55 PM
Well it looks like this is going to be a thing we need to discuss.

My opinion of the man is not good. Though I admit I spent 75% of my time in a liberal media bubble.

I am open to the possibility that my impressions are wrong though. I hope they are since there's a real possibility he'll be our next president.

I'm sure he's human garbage but if it's only between him and Trump, there really is no contest. I'm sure he's just as scummy and coniving but there is no way on hell a man like Trump who attempted to subvert democracy with an insurrection which lead to actual people getting killed, should be rewarded with another term in office.

Cronyism is expected in politics to an extent but Trump not only took it to the next level - he was shameless in his nepotism too.

Ron, as detestable as I find him - might bring some calibre of dignity to the office (well, more than Trump would). He might even listen to intelligence briefings and not sit next to a war monger like Putin and say he believes everything he says while trashing his own government
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2022, 04:04:21 PM »
I hope he is making Trump seethe with jealousy.

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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2022, 04:19:19 PM »
He's as evil and self serving as Trump but knows how to actually get shit done, which is terrifying.

Trump tried to throw the whole country under the bus for his personal gain, DeSantis would probably be able to do it.

If DeSantis had tried to overturn the election he might have managed.
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2022, 06:10:19 PM »
Let's take a what if scenario.

A bunch of stop the steal Republicans win big in the midterms.

Then DeSantis wins the primary.

He then loses the general election by about the same margin that Trump lost in 2020.

This anti democracy group of Republicans kicks into action to steal the election for DeSantis.

What does DeSantis do here?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2022, 06:41:11 PM »
I honestly think he would concede. Everyone thinks he is just like Trump, but he's not. He graduated from Harvard, he served in the Navy, he had experience in government before being elected governor. He's a smart politician, and I think he figured out the game with Trump's fans and has been playing it. I do not think he wants to turn our system of govt into a dictatorship. When he was in the first year or so of his term we all thought (people who live here) that he seemed like he was going to be a good governor, but that was before Trump really got weird, or weirder. lol 

You should all be thankful Rick Scott isn't the chosen one. I will never understand how that criminal became governor, and then senator.


I hope that Charlie Christ beats DeSantis in the next election, though!
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Rayzor

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2022, 08:43:15 PM »
De Santis killed off thousands* with his failed response to Covid, that alone should disqualify him for all time.

Then he attacked companies like Disney with just plain nasty legislation who disagreed with his policy positions on LGBT.   "Don't say gay"

He's smart and unprincipled,  almost as narcissistic and self serving as Trump, but sneakier.   

I hope he goes head to head with Trump and Trump turns the base against him.  That would be justice.
 
* best estimate about 13,000 extra dead. 
https://mahb.stanford.edu/library-item/comparing-corona-virus-responses-in-florida-and-australia-for-the-best-results-follow-the-science/
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 09:37:56 PM by Rayzor »
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2022, 01:36:44 AM »
Quote from: Rayzor on June 26, 2022, 08:43:15 PM

* best estimate about 13,000 extra dead. 
https://mahb.stanford.edu/library-item/comparing-corona-virus-responses-in-florida-and-australia-for-the-best-results-follow-the-science/
DeSantis may have killed people in his response (or lack of it), I don't personally know.  However that article is terrible.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2022, 03:20:15 AM »
Quote from: Rayzor on June 26, 2022, 08:43:15 PM
De Santis killed off thousands* with his failed response to Covid, that alone should disqualify him for all time.

Then he attacked companies like Disney with just plain nasty legislation who disagreed with his policy positions on LGBT.   "Don't say gay"

He's smart and unprincipled,  almost as narcissistic and self serving as Trump, but sneakier.   

I hope he goes head to head with Trump and Trump turns the base against him.  That would be justice.
 
* best estimate about 13,000 extra dead. 
https://mahb.stanford.edu/library-item/comparing-corona-virus-responses-in-florida-and-australia-for-the-best-results-follow-the-science/

DeSantis is an apathetic bastard who saw political points in minimizing the pandemic but it's not like Trump doesn't have deaths on his hands. From the beginning he too minimized it and probably had the power to make wearing a mask a patriotic duty instead of running with them being muzzles for freedom.

Repugnicans do have some decent people in their ranks but unfortunately in America, being ride, obnoxious and detestable are well endeared traits that attract votes.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2022, 06:41:11 PM
I honestly think he would concede. Everyone thinks he is just like Trump, but he's not. He graduated from Harvard, he served in the Navy, he had experience in government before being elected governor. He's a smart politician, and I think he figured out the game with Trump's fans and has been playing it. I do not think he wants to turn our system of govt into a dictatorship. When he was in the first year or so of his term we all thought (people who live here) that he seemed like he was going to be a good governor, but that was before Trump really got weird, or weirder. lol 

You should all be thankful Rick Scott isn't the chosen one. I will never understand how that criminal became governor, and then senator.


I hope that Charlie Christ beats DeSantis in the next election, though!

I think he'd concede as well. Probably through gritted teeth because I dont think the Repugnicans today are capable of graciousness. He might try every trick in the book to get over the line but if he failed, at the end of the day he's a career politician. He knows usurping the oval office will not end favorably either in history, the majority of citizens or in world relations. Realistically how long could it last? Would he really want civilians to take up arms against his government?

Trump would most certainly try because he's not a politician and does not give a damn about the constitution and has enough of a cult following base that he thinks history will remember him fondly.

Not sure how important these mid terms are but maybe to avoid civil war 2.0 make sure the Repugnicans and Trump dont get the cronies they need to even attempt to try another insurrection lol
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 03:29:22 AM »
DeSantis would concede?  That's fucking hilarious.

He is still pushing the big lie that Trump won. He's drawing his own maps, passing restrictive voting laws, taking the ability to vote away from tens of thousands of people.

He is responsible for countless COVID deaths and is still fighting against vaccinating children, still anti-mask, still pushing policies that hur people. All for his own political gain.

He's willing to let people die for his own benefit. He isn't going to concede.

Yet he would stop when his own ascendency to President was at stake?  Bullshit.  He's a selfish piece of shit slimeball.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 03:50:27 AM »
Quote from: JJA on June 27, 2022, 03:29:22 AM
DeSantis would concede?  That's fucking hilarious.

He is still pushing the big lie that Trump won. He's drawing his own maps, passing restrictive voting laws, taking the ability to vote away from tens of thousands of people.

He is responsible for countless COVID deaths and is still fighting against vaccinating children, still anti-mask, still pushing policies that hur people. All for his own political gain.

He's willing to let people die for his own benefit. He isn't going to concede.

Yet he would stop when his own ascendency to President was at stake?  Bullshit.  He's a selfish piece of shit slimeball.

Pushing the big lie works to whip up repugs in a frenzy. Fear is an excellent motivator and efficient means to harness loyalty

Agree with your sentiments on him but I think the reason that he is a career politician that doesn't have a cult status or following means he wouldn't attempt to usurp the throne when push comes to shove. No question he will try every despicable act in the book to try and win though

America doesn't share North Koreas 'Juche' (self-reliance) philosophy. Your plebs might not care or think they need anyone else but your politicians do. If Trump or DeSantis 'won' a coup, how do you think that would play out on the world stage? America would be a pariah state and your economy, reputation, leadership etc on the world stage would all be down the shitter. Does DeSantis think he could still partake in gatherings of G7, G20, UN, 5 eyes, The Quad etc when his Presidency around the world is considered illegitimate and void?

Trump wouldn't care, obviously
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2022, 04:00:01 AM »
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 03:50:27 AM
Quote from: JJA on June 27, 2022, 03:29:22 AM
DeSantis would concede?  That's fucking hilarious.

He is still pushing the big lie that Trump won. He's drawing his own maps, passing restrictive voting laws, taking the ability to vote away from tens of thousands of people.

He is responsible for countless COVID deaths and is still fighting against vaccinating children, still anti-mask, still pushing policies that hur people. All for his own political gain.

He's willing to let people die for his own benefit. He isn't going to concede.

Yet he would stop when his own ascendency to President was at stake?  Bullshit.  He's a selfish piece of shit slimeball.

Pushing the big lie works to whip up repugs in a frenzy. Fear is an excellent motivator and efficient means to harness loyalty

Agree with your sentiments on him but I think the reason that he is a career politician that doesn't have a cult status or following means he wouldn't attempt to usurp the throne when push comes to shove. No question he will try every despicable act in the book to try and win though

America doesn't share North Koreas 'Juche' (self-reliance) philosophy. Your plebs might not care or think they need anyone else but your politicians do. If Trump or DeSantis 'won' a coup, how do you think that would play out on the world stage? America would be a pariah state and your economy, reputation, leadership etc on the world stage would all be down the shitter. Does DeSantis think he could still partake in gatherings of G7, G20, UN, 5 eyes, The Quad etc when his Presidency around the world is considered illegitimate and void?

Trump wouldn't care, obviously
And DeSantis would?  Just because he doesn't yet have a cult following?

He's willing to kill people to get popular.  He's been eagerly and actively pushing laws based on the big lie to restrict voting and further his own ambitions. Yet he wouldn't stop just short of the goal line?  Bullshit.

This asshole wants to set up "Election Police" that will go around intimidating people into not voting and have the ability to challenge perfectly legal votes.  But sure, he wouldn't go over the line?  He's already gone over the line.

Making Trumps Big Lie as the centerpiece to his entire election strategy is already over the line.

Show me ONE THING DeSantis has done that shows he has any restraint when it comes to his ambitions.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2022, 04:08:37 AM »
Quote from: JJA on June 27, 2022, 04:00:01 AM
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 03:50:27 AM
Quote from: JJA on June 27, 2022, 03:29:22 AM
DeSantis would concede?  That's fucking hilarious.

He is still pushing the big lie that Trump won. He's drawing his own maps, passing restrictive voting laws, taking the ability to vote away from tens of thousands of people.

He is responsible for countless COVID deaths and is still fighting against vaccinating children, still anti-mask, still pushing policies that hur people. All for his own political gain.

He's willing to let people die for his own benefit. He isn't going to concede.

Yet he would stop when his own ascendency to President was at stake?  Bullshit.  He's a selfish piece of shit slimeball.

Pushing the big lie works to whip up repugs in a frenzy. Fear is an excellent motivator and efficient means to harness loyalty

Agree with your sentiments on him but I think the reason that he is a career politician that doesn't have a cult status or following means he wouldn't attempt to usurp the throne when push comes to shove. No question he will try every despicable act in the book to try and win though

America doesn't share North Koreas 'Juche' (self-reliance) philosophy. Your plebs might not care or think they need anyone else but your politicians do. If Trump or DeSantis 'won' a coup, how do you think that would play out on the world stage? America would be a pariah state and your economy, reputation, leadership etc on the world stage would all be down the shitter. Does DeSantis think he could still partake in gatherings of G7, G20, UN, 5 eyes, The Quad etc when his Presidency around the world is considered illegitimate and void?

Trump wouldn't care, obviously
And DeSantis would?  Just because he doesn't yet have a cult following?

He's willing to kill people to get popular.  He's been eagerly and actively pushing laws based on the big lie to restrict voting and further his own ambitions. Yet he wouldn't stop just short of the goal line?  Bullshit.

This asshole wants to set up "Election Police" that will go around intimidating people into not voting and have the ability to challenge perfectly legal votes.  But sure, he wouldn't go over the line?  He's already gone over the line.

Making Trumps Big Lie as the centerpiece to his entire election strategy is already over the line.

Show me ONE THING DeSantis has done that shows he has any restraint when it comes to his ambitions.

If the difference was as tight as your 2004 election then I'd agree with you. But Trump got absolutely smashed, not just in the popular vote but in the electoral college. If the difference was that large, I just dont see how any career politician would be willing to go full dictator and to hell with the constitution. If it was like 2004 and he lost, he might be able to spin enough bullshit to still get backing from the wider world. But a walloping like Trump got? No chance the world, the democrats and the public will play ball. It would not only be civilians taking up arms against his government (and pretty sure him being a fan of the 2nd Amendment would be well aware of this), but the world would treat him and America as a pariah

Is Ted Cruz going to make another run or is he too chummy with Trump to attempt to run against him. He looks like someone that would try to steal an election result, no matter how large while crying 'stop the steal!' lol

Also, as a challenger, how much power and influence does DeSantis have right now? He might be able to fuck with the laws and processes of voting in his own state, but he doesn't have the power that Trump had as President
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 04:10:47 AM by Masalang the Torpedo »
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2022, 04:17:47 AM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2022, 06:41:11 PM
Everyone thinks he is just like Trump, but he's not. He graduated from Harvard, he served in the Navy,



This level of naivety is worrying.
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2022, 04:53:02 AM »
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 04:08:37 AM
If the difference was as tight as your 2004 election then I'd agree with you. But Trump got absolutely smashed, not just in the popular vote but in the electoral college. If the difference was that large, I just dont see how any career politician would be willing to go full dictator and to hell with the constitution. If it was like 2004 and he lost, he might be able to spin enough bullshit to still get backing from the wider world. But a walloping like Trump got? No chance the world, the democrats and the public will play ball. It would not only be civilians taking up arms against his government (and pretty sure him being a fan of the 2nd Amendment would be well aware of this), but the world would treat him and America as a pariah
Biden would have lost if Trump could have flipped 1 or 2 states that only required a few tens of thousands of votes.

His victor was razor slim, and DeSantis surely would have tried. He might have even managed it, being a hell of a lot smarter than Trump.

Next time Republicans might have enough control of electors and state boards that they will just decide to pick the Republican, regardless of the actual vote count. They almost did it last time, and with 4 years to set things up they might pull it off next time.

This is real and scary threat, and it's terrifying people support this guy just because he hates the gays too.  Right wing propaganda is really good at stirring up hate and intolerance, and fear.

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 04:08:37 AM
Also, as a challenger, how much power and influence does DeSantis have right now? He might be able to fuck with the laws and processes of voting in his own state, but he doesn't have the power that Trump had as President
Which is why keeping him from that power is so important.  The guy is Trump 2.0 and a serious threat to democracy.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2022, 05:25:32 AM »
Quote from: JJA on June 27, 2022, 04:53:02 AM
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 04:08:37 AM
If the difference was as tight as your 2004 election then I'd agree with you. But Trump got absolutely smashed, not just in the popular vote but in the electoral college. If the difference was that large, I just dont see how any career politician would be willing to go full dictator and to hell with the constitution. If it was like 2004 and he lost, he might be able to spin enough bullshit to still get backing from the wider world. But a walloping like Trump got? No chance the world, the democrats and the public will play ball. It would not only be civilians taking up arms against his government (and pretty sure him being a fan of the 2nd Amendment would be well aware of this), but the world would treat him and America as a pariah
Biden would have lost if Trump could have flipped 1 or 2 states that only required a few tens of thousands of votes.

His victor was razor slim, and DeSantis surely would have tried. He might have even managed it, being a hell of a lot smarter than Trump.

Next time Republicans might have enough control of electors and state boards that they will just decide to pick the Republican, regardless of the actual vote count. They almost did it last time, and with 4 years to set things up they might pull it off next time.

This is real and scary threat, and it's terrifying people support this guy just because he hates the gays too.  Right wing propaganda is really good at stirring up hate and intolerance, and fear.

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 04:08:37 AM
Also, as a challenger, how much power and influence does DeSantis have right now? He might be able to fuck with the laws and processes of voting in his own state, but he doesn't have the power that Trump had as President
Which is why keeping him from that power is so important.  The guy is Trump 2.0 and a serious threat to democracy.

I agree he is bad news and a bad guy. Hideous even. I'm flabbergasted people who would call themselves patriots would reward the repugs with a vote. The repugs need a complete overhaul and only by people turning away from them in droves is that going to happen. If they hate the dems they should protest vote for an independent or just not vote at all if they cant bring themselves to vote democrat or an independent

Almost every repugnican is a threat to democracy. It is a repugs worst nightmare to have free and fair elections and whether its screwing with the postal service or requiring pointless voter ID laws, gerrymandering or dumbing down education to brainwash people and prevent them from developing critical thinking skills - they'll find a way to screw democracy. Dont think because in a battle between Trump and DeSantis that I'd rather see Trump lose that I like DeSantis. It's like being asked which limb I'd prefer being chopped off. No outcome is liked. Unfortunately unless another repugnican challenger comes along that can best both Trump and DeSantis and is actually got a good head on his/her shoulders, it seems this is where we are at

Biden vs Trump or Biden vs DeSantis. We know Trump has authoritarian/dictator dreams and we know he will put his family back in plum roles that may end up vying for a 2028 election ticket. Do you want Ivanka or Don Jr as a serious contender? A lot of repugs that would otherwise put their hand up to have a go at the top job might concede for fear of reprisal from the cult of Trump and being called a RINO. Ted Cruz for example seems like he will only run, if Trump doesn't. Well all the better because that guy is human garbage too

If Trump wins 2024, 2028 is probably assured to the repugs again thanks to the cult status and nepotism and maybe even a complete screw job on the constitution by Trump and his cronies making him not much different in the way power is handed over to that of North Korea. To the family

DeSantis wins 2024 and all bets are off in 2028 or at the least, we wouldn't have a North Korea style system of government to contend with. I just cant see him getting that much pull.

One other thing to consider. Trump hired whack jobs to pretty important positions of power. Like that Steve Bannon guy that was in charge of Beightbart news. Would DeSantis look so left field to fill roles in the White House or would he install people who have dedicated their careers to politics for example Mitch McConell or Mike Pence. When push came to shove, they respected the constitution. DeSantis will probably be surrounded by people of that caliber on his team rather than the cronies Trump would have and ensure they do whatever he says even if it breaks the law and constitution)

It's not just the figurehead to look at but the kinds of people that will fill their team. I think Americans should be more frightened of the people Trump would pick then DeSantis.

Again, I think DeSantis is toxic and despicable. And forgetting all his policies around repug values, his stance on climate change really shits me. That is a real existential threat to humanity and he doesn't give a shit - indeed, he will happily expedite the crisis to new heights. Fuck that guy

« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 05:27:07 AM by Masalang the Torpedo »
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JJA

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2022, 06:17:06 AM »
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 05:25:32 AM
One other thing to consider. Trump hired whack jobs to pretty important positions of power. Like that Steve Bannon guy that was in charge of Beightbart news. Would DeSantis look so left field to fill roles in the White House or would he install people who have dedicated their careers to politics for example Mitch McConell or Mike Pence. When push came to shove, they respected the constitution. DeSantis will probably be surrounded by people of that caliber on his team rather than the cronies Trump would have and ensure they do whatever he says even if it breaks the law and constitution)

DeSantis picked a batshit insane QAnon supporter who believes in their conspiracies to be Head of State and in charge of the elections.

So, yeah. No silver lining with him.

Trump or DeSantis would be an absolute disaster for the country. Either is terrible.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2022, 07:45:08 AM »
Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on June 27, 2022, 04:17:47 AM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2022, 06:41:11 PM
Everyone thinks he is just like Trump, but he's not. He graduated from Harvard, he served in the Navy,



This level of naivety is worrying.

How is that naive? Trump is a populous clown, his fans think his Apprentice character is real. DeSantis is smart, whether you like him or not. He willingly served this country. He is introverted, Trump is a showboat. I think it sucks that he has decided to court Trump's fans, but if you look at the Republican party over the past 10yrs, they really have to. The loons are the only ones who show up for the primaries. If DeSantis was eyeing a presidential run for very long, he would have seen the writing on the wall.

There is no cult of DeSantis, not even in Florida. When he speaks it's not the same as when Trump does. There's no wildness to any of it. It's just not the same. He's not insulting people, or starting "lock her up" chants, and all the other crazy shit Trump did (and still does).

My hope is that the Dems put someone serious and sane up in the primaries. They have to be smart. They have to figure out how to play the new game. They need to take Hillary Clinton's advice and back away from the extremely unpopular shit.

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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2022, 07:58:32 AM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 27, 2022, 07:45:08 AM
They need to take Hillary Clinton's advice and back away from the extremely unpopular shit.
And she should know about extremely unpopular shit.  :P

Seriously though, Biden looks about 156, they need to start getting their act together.
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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2022, 08:21:08 AM »
Mmmm. Everything you said here is wrong. Well, not everything, Trump is a clown.

You say, “I think it sucks that he has decided to court Trump's fans, but if you look at the Republican party over the past 10yrs, they really have to.”
No, no they don’t, they choose to, because getting power is more important than truth.

“There's no wildness to any of it. It's just not the same. He's not insulting people, or starting "lock her up" chants, and all the other crazy shit Trump did (and still does).”

Because he has learnt that Trumps backers shy from this, but the same playbook, mask mandates, the “don’t say gay” bill, an office for election crime, from a man who supported the Stealers agenda and railing against the woke, looking to pick up the baton when Trump finally burst a blood vessel in his head.

“How is that naive?” Because someone went to an Ivy League (or equivalent) and fought for their country, do you know how many despots that applies to?

And then to take Hillary’s advice! Good god no. you need more Bernie, lots and lots of Bernie if you are to have any hope of surviving as a country, you need to drop tokenism, sure, but Biden and Hillary are the dead middle-ground where tokenism breeds amongst the lack of imagination and conviction, the constant turning in the wind to whoever shouts loudest like a corpse on a gibbet.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 08:33:17 AM by Jura-Glenlivet II »
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2022, 08:58:39 AM »
Bernie Sanders is 80.
 
I know Sanders has this sort of cult following, which is helped by not having actually been president and therefore not had to make the many compromises that go with the role. But no, they don't need more octogenarians running for the highest office.     He's just become some sort of comfort blanket for the left and they need to move on.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2022, 09:26:15 AM »
That he graduated from Harvard and fought for this country are just two of the ways he is different from Trump. If you reread my post you will see that just prior to mentioning Harvard and military service I posted "Everyone thinks he is just like Trump, but he's not."   Still not showing me how those two things are "naive", but I am no longer surprised when you don't respond to what I actually post.

I would like to know on what fucking planet Trump's backers shy away from his insane rally cries.

Okay, they should ignore Hillary's advice and continue promoting insanity. That's working out so well. I imagine even Bernie wishes the left would pull back from some of it.

P.S. There is no such thing as the "don't say gay" bill. The bill makes it illegal to teach kindergartners (5 yr olds) to 3rd graders (8yr olds) about sex and gender identity. It also requires schools to inform parents about issues regarding their kids' mental health and well being. I don't think the bill is perfect, but some of the reaction to it is stupid.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2022, 09:43:36 AM »
I'm a bit confused about why everyone is so angry about DeSantis's policy on child vaccination, as it seems in line with what most of the West is doing.  Here in the UK we don't offer vaccines to under 5s and it really isn't controversial.   This is UK policy:

Quote
Children can get a 1st dose of the vaccine from the day they turn 5.

Most children can get a 2nd dose from 12 weeks after they had their 1st dose.

If your child has a condition that means they're at high risk from COVID-19 or they live with someone who has a weakened immune system, they can get a 2nd dose from 8 weeks after they had their 1st dose.

If your child is aged 12 to 15 and at high risk from COVID-19, they can also get a booster dose of the COVID-19 vaccine if they had a 2nd dose at least 3 months ago.

If your child is aged 5 or over and had a severely weakened immune system when they had their first 2 doses, they can get an additional primary dose (3rd dose) of the COVID-19 vaccine.


Is this much different to Florida?
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Crouton

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2022, 09:46:21 AM »
Up until recently we didn't have a covid vaccine approved for those under 5.  When it was approved every state preordered a bunch just to have them available.  Every state except Florida.  Apparently Ron DeSantis opposed it but then relented because of a bunch of angry parents.

That's what I gather from the headlines anyways.  There could be more nuance to it.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2022, 09:57:30 AM »
Quote from: Crouton on June 27, 2022, 09:46:21 AM
Up until recently we didn't have a covid vaccine approved for those under 5.  When it was approved every state preordered a bunch just to have them available.  Every state except Florida.  Apparently Ron DeSantis opposed it but then relented because of a bunch of angry parents.
Not sure why you are giving the vaccine to under 5s.  It doesn't look like he's banned them for under 5s anyway.

Quote
That's what I gather from the headlines anyways.  There could be more nuance to it.
It seems hard to find any objective information on this.  One site called him a "fascist" over it, which is laughable, considering most places outside the US of A haven't approved the vaccines for under 5s either.    It seems it's actually possible to give your 1 year old the covid vaccine in Florida, unlike the UK, for example.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2022, 10:06:05 AM »
Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on June 27, 2022, 09:57:30 AM
Quote from: Crouton on June 27, 2022, 09:46:21 AM
Up until recently we didn't have a covid vaccine approved for those under 5.  When it was approved every state preordered a bunch just to have them available.  Every state except Florida.  Apparently Ron DeSantis opposed it but then relented because of a bunch of angry parents.
Not sure why you are giving the vaccine to under 5s.  It doesn't look like he's banned them for under 5s anyway.

Quote
That's what I gather from the headlines anyways.  There could be more nuance to it.
It seems hard to find any objective information on this.  One site called him a "fascist" over it, which is laughable, considering most places outside the US of A haven't approved the vaccines for under 5s either.    It seems it's actually possible to give your 1 year old the covid vaccine in Florida, unlike the UK, for example.

That would be due to your medical regulators not having approved it yet - nothing to do with the politicians at this stage. For example, it's not available for 6 months to under 5's in Australia yet either but the TGA is currently doing its own evaluating of it

How ridiculous would it be if a politician decided he knew better decided after all approvals were granted 'Nope! Not supporting or helping to facilitate this because there is no risk of covid to people in that age group in my opinion'

A 3 year old child recently died from covid here so DeSantis is wrong asserting covid is harmless to young children. Also using death as the only metric to gauge if covid is harmful is stupid.




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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2022, 11:25:32 AM »
Right now DeSantis is refusing to authorize state programs to administer vaccines to those under 5yrs old. There are plenty of vaccines in the state, but the demand is low. Also Publix (a grocery store) are not offering vaccines for those younger than 5. As far as I know Publix hasn't said why. They do offer other childhood vaccines. I'm pretty sure you can take your toddler to Walgreens, Walmart, CVS, etc for a vaccine. You can definitely get them vaccinated at their pediatrician office.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2022, 11:43:40 AM »
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 10:06:05 AM
That would be due to your medical regulators not having approved it yet
You say "yet", though there is no indication they will approve it for under 5s. The same in Australia, where it also isn't available for these young children.

Quote
How ridiculous would it be if a politician decided he knew better decided after all approvals were granted
Knows better than the CDC regulators, or the ones most of the rest of the world who are not approving it?  Personally I don't have much faith in the CDC, certainly a lot less than our own equivalent.

He's not banned it, just not ordered any from the federal authorities.  If you are in Florida and really want to give your toddler or baby the jab for some reason, you can.  Unlike Australia or the UK....

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2022, 11:57:24 AM »
Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on June 27, 2022, 11:43:40 AM
Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on June 27, 2022, 10:06:05 AM
That would be due to your medical regulators not having approved it yet
You say "yet", though there is no indication they will approve it for under 5s. The same in Australia, where it also isn't available for these young children.

Quote
How ridiculous would it be if a politician decided he knew better decided after all approvals were granted
Knows better than the CDC regulators, or the ones most of the rest of the world who are not approving it?  Personally I don't have much faith in the CDC, certainly a lot less than our own equivalent.

He's not banned it, just not ordered any from the federal authorities.  If you are in Florida and really want to give your toddler or baby the jab for some reason, you can.  Unlike Australia or the UK....

Well again, every country has their own regulatory bodies and evaluation procedures and also batch testing to do. The point is that medical regulators in America have green lighted the covid vaccination for under 5's and some politician who is not a medical expert or a scientist and whose only credentials on covid vaccines may as well be doom scrolling memes on Facebook has decided in his opinion the vaccine is not needed and thus didn't pre order any to help facilitate the access to those who wanted the choice. The only state in America to do so. So yeah, he's the odd one out there because he decided he knew better because in his opinion, covid is harmless to that age group

Vaccine discussions for children should be between a parent and their GP. DeSantis should not get in the way

 
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Lorddave

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Re: Why do you support Ron DeSantis?
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2022, 12:05:31 PM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 27, 2022, 07:45:08 AM
I think it sucks that he has decided to court Trump's fans, but if you look at the Republican party over the past 10yrs, they really have to. The loons are the only ones who show up for the primaries. If DeSantis was eyeing a presidential run for very long, he would have seen the writing on the wall.
You're not wrong.
Look at what happened to the Tea Party.  The literal right wing extremists.

Republican leadership had two choices: Move policies more center, towards the Democrats, to capture the centralist and moderate voters and let the Tea Party have the crazies or try to absorb the Tea Party by giving in to some of their demands and pushing the moderate Republicans into a "If you don't vote with us and the crazies, you'll have to vote for democrats and then we'll all die.".  Fear mongering, in essence, to keep them voting the party.

They chose option 2.
Had they chosen option 1, they'd have lost most elections.

See, having a two party system means any 3rd party will syphon off votes from whichever party they're closest too.  A split of 5% Tea Party, 46% Republican with 49% democrat means Democrats win, pure and simple.  In the house, its not a huge deal.  In the senate, it is.  We saw what Tea Party people do: they will gridlock republicans for not going too far.  Essentially making them a forever minority.  Democrats would win more and more elections.  The presidency would go to Democrats moreoften than not.

So that's why they had to court the crazies: Because two party systems are shit.
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