What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #420 on: September 11, 2022, 12:15:09 AM »
  If it is what you want to see done, then why don't YOU do it, yourself? You aren't incapable of it, are you? If you are, WHY would you be incapable of doing it yourself? Any reason(s)?

Jupiter amateur timelapse...Weird how it doesn't jitter like Saturn. What a difference 456 million miles can make...


This is a three and half hour timelapse of Jupiter’s rotation, so just over a third of the planet’s ten hour day. Photographed on the night of September 7-8 as Jupiter nears opposition later this month. The moon orbiting from behind the planet is Io. To create the timelapse I used a technique called “lucky imaging” which helps get around the distortion caused by earth’s atmosphere. Shooting with a very high frame rate (around 60 frames per second) I captured 90 second sequences of the planet. Using a computer program called AutoStakkert, I then selected the clearest 10% of the frames from that 90 second capture. (Whittling 5,400 frames down to the 540 best). Those 10% were then combined into one final image representing that 90 second period. I did this 130 times for the entirety of the timelapse. Equipment used: 9.25” Celestron EdgeHD telescope, 2.5x powermate barlow lens, ZWO ASI296MC camera, on an EQ6R mount.

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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #421 on: September 11, 2022, 01:59:27 AM »
Show me videos, or provide links to videos, that would meet your requirements, as you must have seen them
I am yet to hear of any such videos for Saturn that show movement.

At this point, do you believe, or think that it's most likely, entirely caused by an effect, and/or blurry footage, because you believe that Saturn appears to be moving differently, in every one of the videos?
No, it isn't just that (and it isn't really that, again, Saturn doesn't appear to be moving. The air does.).
It is because I understand the limits of being able to try and resolve something through a turbulent atmosphere, and just how small the angular size of Saturn is.
It is because people have been able to use stacking to obtain quite clear images of Saturn.
It is because space probes which have actually gotten close to Saturn show similar images rather than that expected if your crazy chaotic motion was real.

But yes, the fact that the distortion varies depending on the atmospheric conditions, rather than being predictable and repeatable shows it is almost certainly an affect of the turbulent atmosphere. And it matches what happens during things like heat hazes.

When you have never once seen Saturn NOT in motion, nor has any video shown it NOT in motion
Except the videos you dismiss as fake.
(And again, it isn't if it is in motion or not, it is if it exhibits the crazy motion you want to claim it does).

knowing there is no known effect, which could permanently CAUSE anything to appear to be in constant, endless motion.
Except the effects you choose to ignore.

you simply reject all of this as evidence of Saturn BEING in motion
What evidence?
So far all you have provided is blurry footage shot through a turbulent atmosphere.
That is not evidence that Saturn is in motion any more than a video of a plane through a heat haze is evidence that the plane is actually moving like that.

Only the evidence matters. So why are you ignoring it all, dismissing it as NOT being evidence?
And now you are projecting yet again.
Yes, the evidence matters, yet you ignore all the evidence that shows you are wrong.
Instead you cling to evidence which is ambiguous at best, which cannot support your claims, all while refusing to provide evidence that would support your claims.

Do you really WANT to see two different videos of Saturn, taken at the same time, from two different points on Earth, because if you DO, why not do it yourself, with someone else?
Because I'm not paranoid, and already accept the plentiful evidence which shows Saturn is a planet which is very far away and doesn't display the crazy motion you claim it does.
And if I got the footage, it would serve no purpose, as it would show different motion, and you would just dismiss it as not taken at the same time or fake or come up with some other excuse.
If you really want to claim to have evidence that it is actually Saturn moving, rather than just a view through a turbulent atmosphere, then why don't you get the footage?

I had even provided a simple alternative to demonstrate that what you are suggesting would even be possible, film a 1 m wide sphere from a distance of 10 km showing it clearly as a sphere with no distortions. (Although I have now noticed I think I made an error with that, mixing up the radius and the diameter. It should actually be a 58 cm wide sphere, not 1 m).

Why do you ask ME to do it
Because you are the one making the claim. As such the burden is on you to prove it.

If you would like, I can even link it back to your analogy from earlier:
No, this is like you claimed to see flying pink elephants going around Saturn, and asked me to prove it's impossible for you to have seen them.
This is like you claiming to see flying pink elephants going around Saturn, and then when asked for evidence, including being provided a description of what would count as evidence, you just tell me to get it myself.

You are the one making the claim, the burden is on you to justify it.
Don't expect me to do it for you.

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #422 on: September 11, 2022, 03:01:57 AM »
Because I'm not paranoid, and already accept the plentiful evidence which shows Saturn is a planet which is very far away and doesn't display the crazy motion you claim it does.
And if I got the footage, it would serve no purpose, as it would show different motion, and you would just dismiss it as not taken at the same time or fake or come up with some other excuse.
If you really want to claim to have evidence that it is actually Saturn moving, rather than just a view through a turbulent atmosphere, then why don't you get the footage?

Because it it YOU who wants to have that footage, while claiming it would serve no purpose at all?

So why are you asking me get this footage, when you've just said that it would serve no purpose?

And though you've never even SEEN such footage, you somehow 'know' it wouldn't show Saturn in the same motion?  How would you ever 'know' what it would look like, when you've never even SEEN it? You don't have a clue about it, and ask ME to do it? Are you off your rocker?

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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #423 on: September 11, 2022, 03:07:13 AM »
Because it it YOU who wants to have that footage, while claiming it would serve no purpose at all?
So why are you asking me get this footage, when you've just said that it would serve no purpose?
I'm not asking you to get the footage. I am telling you what is required for you to have evidence that it is actually Saturn moving.
I also didn't say the footage would serve no purpose. I said me getting it would serve no purpose.
There is quite a significant difference.

You have shown you will reject any evidence from others that shows you are wrong.
So if I got this evidence and it showed you were wrong, you would dismiss it.
And I already accept that it is the atmosphere moving.
So what purpose is there for me to get it?

Again, the burden is on you to back up your claim.
Don't expect me to get evidence for you to back up your claim.

And though you've never even SEEN such footage, you somehow 'know' it wouldn't show Saturn in the same motion?  How would you ever 'know' what it would look like, when you've never even SEEN it? You don't have a clue about it, and ask ME to do it? Are you off your rocker?
Because of all the other evidence showing Saturn is a planet.
The evidence you reject because it doesn't fit your world view.

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #424 on: September 11, 2022, 04:16:02 AM »
Every video shows Saturn in motion, that's the proof.

How many more videos showing it is in motion, do you need, to accept it as true?

When our instruments advance in future, as they certainly will, do you know what we will be able to see of Saturn? It is somewhat visible today, but not yet clear and defined. It is the actual features on Saturn's orb, and rings, which we'll see rotating at high speed. When we slow down the footage, frame by frame, these features will move position, while it rotates.

You'll have nothing to excuse it as an effect, or blurry footage. It doesn't mean you'll finally ACCEPT that Saturn is in motion, rotating at high speed, even after it's proven, beyond any doubt. But you'll still KNOW it is true, whether you ever admit it or not. Then you have no excuse for it, so maybe tnen, you'll choose the accept the truth, instead of living in denial of it.

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Themightykabool

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #425 on: September 11, 2022, 05:15:46 AM »
Whst kind of motion?


Spinning?
Vibrating?
Vectoring?






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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #426 on: September 11, 2022, 05:23:46 AM »
Every video shows Saturn in motion, that's the proof.
You mean every video shot through a turbulent atmosphere shows a distorted view of Saturn due to the turbulent atmosphere.

You are yet to demonstrate that the atmosphere could ever be calm enough to produce footage showing Saturn without distortion, nor that it is actually Saturn moving.

And we have images from outside the atmosphere which don't show it like that.

How many more videos showing it is in motion, do you need, to accept it as true?
I have told you what is needed, and why your nonsense doesn't work.

When our instruments advance in future, as they certainly will, do you know what we will be able to see of Saturn? It is somewhat visible today, but not yet clear and defined. It is the actual features on Saturn's orb, and rings, which we'll see rotating at high speed.
No, we will see it rotating once every 10.5 hours or so, like the advanced space probes already have.

maybe tnen, you'll choose the accept the truth, instead of living in denial of it.
I have accepted the truth. Perhaps you should try it some time instead of clinging to your delusional fantasy?

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Unconvinced

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #427 on: September 11, 2022, 06:53:45 AM »
Every video shows Saturn in motion, that's the proof.

How many more videos showing it is in motion, do you need, to accept it as true?

Funny how your videos are always taken with Nikon P900/P1000 series cameras, isn’t it?

I wouldn’t be surprised if these moving patterns are partly caused by some digital processing that people are deliberately turning on.

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When our instruments advance in future, as they certainly will, do you know what we will be able to see of Saturn? It is somewhat visible today, but not yet clear and defined. It is the actual features on Saturn's orb, and rings, which we'll see rotating at high speed. When we slow down the footage, frame by frame, these features will move position, while it rotates.

We already have instruments vastly more suitable for astronomy than domestic cameras with a big zoom lens.  Even decent quality consumer telescopes.

Why don’t the people putting these videos out ever try to capture these amazing effects in greater detail by using dedicated equipment?  Meanwhile neither  professional nor amateur astronomers who do use proper gear ever get the same results.

Probably because they are bullshitting you.

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You'll have nothing to excuse it as an effect, or blurry footage. It doesn't mean you'll finally ACCEPT that Saturn is in motion, rotating at high speed, even after it's proven, beyond any doubt. But you'll still KNOW it is true, whether you ever admit it or not. Then you have no excuse for it, so maybe tnen, you'll choose the accept the truth, instead of living in denial of it.

Why not right now?

Show us the videos using anything other than a P900 or P1000 camera.

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #428 on: September 11, 2022, 04:50:42 PM »
Every video shows Saturn in motion, that's the proof.

Not every...




This video is reduced from 60+ GB of video shot from 0540 to 0730 UT on the night of 1 April 2011, a few days before Saturn reaches opposition for 2011.  Each frame is reduced from 6000 frames shot through a 3x Barlow on a Celestron 9.25" Edge HD mounted on a CGEM.  Video was processed using Registax, GIMP and VirtualDub.




« Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 10:47:20 PM by Stash »

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #429 on: September 17, 2022, 06:31:16 AM »
He said they're FRAMES from a video of it.

Try to read before you muddle up what it ACTUALLY says, next time.

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Mikey T.

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #430 on: September 17, 2022, 08:14:27 AM »
He said they're FRAMES from a video of it.

Try to read before you muddle up what it ACTUALLY says, next time.
Do you not know what a video is made of?

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Themightykabool

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #431 on: September 17, 2022, 08:21:26 AM »
Amazing

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #432 on: September 17, 2022, 01:33:43 PM »
He said they're FRAMES from a video of it.

Try to read before you muddle up what it ACTUALLY says, next time.
Do you not know what a video is made of?

Hilarious. Apparently, he has zero knowledge of how moving pictures come to be.


 

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JJA

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #433 on: September 17, 2022, 11:46:05 PM »
He said they're FRAMES from a video of it.

Try to read before you muddle up what it ACTUALLY says, next time.
Do you not know what a video is made of?
Are we going to argue about what defines a video vs a frame now and the philosophical implications of various motion compression algorithms? I feel that's where this particular derailment is going.

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #434 on: September 18, 2022, 01:32:37 AM »
He said they're FRAMES from a video of it.

Try to read before you muddle up what it ACTUALLY says, next time.
Do you not know what a video is made of?

Yes, do you know why I said there's no VIDEO of Saturn that shows it NOT in motion?

Because videos SHOW any motion, the frames OF videos, are simply still images, and do NOT show any motion, and THIS source, only showed FRAMES of it, which do NOT, CANNOT, show any motion.

I can't believe I need to explain this, but I guess I should've expected it, by this point.

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #435 on: September 18, 2022, 01:43:37 AM »
Yep, he still has no idea how moving pictures are made. Sad.

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #436 on: September 18, 2022, 01:53:11 AM »
Yep, he still has no idea how moving pictures are made. Sad.

How old are you two? You act like a 12-13 year old, by this post. Try another forum, it'd be much better, for the both of us

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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #437 on: September 18, 2022, 02:00:38 AM »
Because videos SHOW any motion, the frames OF videos, are simply still images, and do NOT show any motion, and THIS source, only showed FRAMES of it, which do NOT, CANNOT, show any motion.
Again, pure delusional BS.

If frames (PLURAL) cannot show motion, then a sequence of frames cannot show motion which means a video cannot show motion.

Is that really what you want to claim? That a video (a sequence of frames) cannot show motion?

I can't believe I need to explain this
I can't believe you are spouting such ignorant nonsense.
This just truly shows your level of desperation.

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #438 on: September 18, 2022, 02:53:49 AM »
It all depends on how many frames are NOT used, where they removed frames, in the video, and that is what he HAS done - shown us some of the FRAMES of the video, which makes it a pack of random stills from the video.

Don't you know what THIS does, how any ACTUAL motion, is not represented by picking out some random FRAMES? A CHILD knows this much, it's that simple to understand. So why don't YOU get this simple point?

We are discussing any MOTION of Saturn, remember that?

To actually SHOW if Saturn is in motion, or not, requires video of it, film footage of it, there is NO OTHER WAY TO SHOW MOTION, the ACTUAL, ENTIRE motion, of Saturn. 

You realize that, don't you? A batch of stills from a video, put together in a sequence, CAN show motion, but it is not the ACTUAL, REAL TIME, motion. It is snippets of it, squished together from all over the video. 

Show only videos, or don't show anything at all. Frames picked out at random? Are you serious?

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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #439 on: September 18, 2022, 03:02:57 AM »
It all depends on how many frames are NOT used, where they removed frames, in the video, and that is what he HAS done - shown us some of the FRAMES of the video, which makes it a pack of random stills from the video.
So what you are saying is that contrary to your prior delusional outburst, you accept that frames CAN show motion.

Now if Saturn was moving as randomly as you claim, how could anyone ever get such clear images?
Why isn't it vastly different each time?

Or are you trying to suggest it is just like the RE, HC model says it is, except that it spins much faster so these selected frames are after some integer number of rotations?

To actually SHOW if Saturn is in motion, or not, requires video of it
At what framerate?

And are you going to try to get evidence of your claims of Saturn's motion?

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #440 on: September 18, 2022, 03:05:45 AM »
Show only videos, or don't show anything at all.


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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #441 on: September 18, 2022, 03:43:14 AM »
So what you are saying is that contrary to your prior delusional outburst, you accept that frames CAN show motion.

Now if Saturn was moving as randomly as you claim, how could anyone ever get such clear images?
Why isn't it vastly different each time?


No, frames do NOT show motion, frames put together in sequence, shown in sequence, can show motion. Not just frames, from a video, show motion, as they are all single images at that point. Same as any image cannot show motion.

They are edited, touched up and colored, what do you expect to see them look like at that point? They are NOT what you THINK they are, obviously. Worthless paint jobs, that's about all they end up as.

Have you ever seen 'stacked images' of Saturn, they say were taken out as frames, of a video of Saturn? Have you seen their videos of Saturn? Look at some frames of it, and see where they get their IMAGES from, and 'stack' the 'best frames' together, and using a magical process, create these clear, sharp, colorful 'IMAGES' of Saturn.

And you now know, how they get their clear 'images', by editing the CRAP out of them, to the point it's all faked, simulated, tweaked, polished up, smoothed out. They are anything BUT actual images!

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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #442 on: September 18, 2022, 03:49:38 AM »
No, frames do NOT show motion, frames ... can show motion.
Which is it?
Can frames show motion, or can't they?
Also note, it wasn't just frames before, it was frames from a video, in sequence.

Have you ever seen 'stacked images' of Saturn, they say were taken out as frames, of a video of Saturn? Have you seen their videos of Saturn? Look at some frames of it, and see where they get their IMAGES from, and 'stack' the 'best frames' together, and using a magical process, create these clear, sharp, colorful 'IMAGES' of Saturn.
Yes, I understand how it works.
Do you?

Even better, can you provide evidence for your magical moving Saturn?

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Themightykabool

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #443 on: September 18, 2022, 06:14:26 AM »
Yep, he still has no idea how moving pictures are made. Sad.

How old are you two? You act like a 12-13 year old, by this post. Try another forum, it'd be much better, for the both of us


Now calli g out peokple for acting childish?


Oookk

Hey care to answer the original question - angle between segments of a 300,000sided polygon?

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #444 on: September 18, 2022, 09:33:05 AM »
So what you are saying is that contrary to your prior delusional outburst, you accept that frames CAN show motion.

Now if Saturn was moving as randomly as you claim, how could anyone ever get such clear images?
Why isn't it vastly different each time?


No, frames do NOT show motion, frames put together in sequence, shown in sequence, can show motion. Not just frames, from a video, show motion, as they are all single images at that point. Same as any image cannot show motion.

They are edited, touched up and colored, what do you expect to see them look like at that point? They are NOT what you THINK they are, obviously. Worthless paint jobs, that's about all they end up as.

Have you ever seen 'stacked images' of Saturn, they say were taken out as frames, of a video of Saturn? Have you seen their videos of Saturn? Look at some frames of it, and see where they get their IMAGES from, and 'stack' the 'best frames' together, and using a magical process, create these clear, sharp, colorful 'IMAGES' of Saturn.

And you now know, how they get their clear 'images', by editing the CRAP out of them, to the point it's all faked, simulated, tweaked, polished up, smoothed out. They are anything BUT actual images!

This was a LIVE VIEW, not stacked, smoothed, colorized, etc. A LIVE VIEW VIDEO of Saturn. How can you not wrap your head around that?


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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #445 on: September 22, 2022, 09:23:53 PM »

Show us the videos using anything other than a P900 or P1000 camera.

Watch at around 1:43 into the clip..



Here's an hour and 45 minutes for you...



Another clip...



They show Saturn in constant, endless motion just like all the REST do!

But search for yourself, if you don't believe it.....

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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #446 on: September 22, 2022, 09:42:38 PM »
Which is it?
Can frames show motion, or can't they?

If you mean ACTUAL motion, yes, but only when ALL the frames are seen in actual, real-time sequence. That's not what your source shows us here. If you pick out frames from a video, it's not actually what happens, what is seen, that's the problem.

A stick man drawn in different positions on paper, flipped through quickly, shows apparent 'motion', even though it is just several different drawings on each paper. There's no ACTUAL motion, it is an illusion of motion.

Unlike Saturn, which constantly, endlessly is in motion.

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Stash

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #447 on: September 22, 2022, 10:25:01 PM »

Show us the videos using anything other than a P900 or P1000 camera.

Watch at around 1:43 into the clip..



Here's an hour and 45 minutes for you...



Another clip...



They show Saturn in constant, endless motion just like all the REST do!

But search for yourself, if you don't believe it.....

Aside from Saturn panning across the field of view, expected given the rotation of the Earth, I'm not seeing any constant motion.


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turbonium2

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #448 on: September 23, 2022, 12:45:11 AM »
The rings angle up and down again, around the orb, which bobbles up and down slightly, too.

This motion cannot be due to our instruments, it occurs with ALL instruments, cameras and telescopes, since they all show it. Every time, all the time.

Instruments cannot change the angles of it's rings, nor can the atmosphere, nor anything else, it is completely impossible. It is Saturn itself moving, simple as that.

We've never seen Saturn NOT in motion, so claiming it is NOT actually in motion, denies all of the evidence, and ignores all of our observations.   

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JackBlack

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Re: What experiments can I do to prove that the Earth is flat?
« Reply #449 on: September 23, 2022, 01:42:39 AM »
Watch at around 1:43 into the clip..
To see what?
It certainly doesn't look like Saturn is rapidly rotating.
Instead, it looks fairly still and a bit blurry.

They show Saturn in constant, endless motion just like all the REST do!
No, they don't.

If you mean ACTUAL motion, yes, but only when ALL the frames are seen in actual, real-time sequence.
Again, what framerate is needed?

Are you suggesting these videos are incapable of showing motion as they don't show real time footage?


Are you suggesting that if we took 60 fps video, and discarded half the frames it would magically no longer be able to show motion?

A stick man drawn in different positions on paper, flipped through quickly, shows apparent 'motion', even though it is just several different drawings on each paper. There's no ACTUAL motion, it is an illusion of motion.
The same can be said for any video.

Unlike Saturn, which constantly, endlessly is in motion.
Stop just spouting the same baseless BS.

Again, if you want to show it is actually Saturn in motion, then either get a video from outside the atmosphere, or get a video from 2 locations at the same time showing the same alleged motion.

The rings angle up and down again, around the orb, which bobbles up and down slightly, too.
What makes you say the rings angle up and down again?
I don't see that in the video.

Instead all I see is some minor distortion due to the atmosphere, which is expected.

We've never seen Saturn NOT in motion, so claiming it is NOT actually in motion, denies all of the evidence, and ignores all of our observations.
Again, pure BS.
We haven't seen Saturn ever displaying the motion you have described, as you have never been able to show it is actually Saturn moving rather than the atmosphere.

You haven't even been able to show you would be able to produce footage of an object with the angular size of Saturn through a long stretch of atmosphere without the atmosphere distorting it.

And we have photos and videos of Saturn from space, which don't show any crazy chaotic motion that would be expected.
You are choosing to dismiss that evidence. So claiming it is in motion is what is ignoring the evidence and observations.

I'm not denying any evidence or observations. I'm denying your lies about the evidence and observations.