Are there images available a the ice-wall?

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2006, 10:03:05 AM »
Quote from: "Hardhead"
Just for the record, I don't believe in the ice wall.  It may exist, but it may not.


This brings us back to the question: howcome the water doesn't fall off the face of the earth?

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2006, 03:00:59 PM »
Quote from: "pablo"
This brings us back to the question: howcome the water doesn't fall off the face of the earth?


Even when the earth is flat, it is not totally flat. There are buildings, there are trees, there are mountains, and there are seas; and the seas imply that there are a space to a lower level (to hold the water).

In short: the ice wall is over the level of the sea.

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2006, 03:49:08 PM »
Okay, I realize that this is slightly off-topic, but while we're talking about ice walls, why does it go around the southern "edge" instead of the northern "edge"?
I'm sure flat-earthers will make up some nonsense about how everybody knows that the north pole is in the center and claim that round-earthers know this without realizing it because we say the north pole is at the top or something.
This is not true.
Neither pole is at the "top" because gravity pulls toward the center, not toward a particular pole.  I live in New England.  My sister went to Australia and New Zealand a couple of years ago, and she can attest to the facts that the Earth looks curved from an airplane and you aren't upside-down in the southern hemisphere.  In New Zealand, all the maps are "upside-down" by typical European standards, but this does not mean they are inaccurate.  An extraterrestrial approaching earth in a spacecraft could bring an "upside-down" map back to his planet and everyone would believe that it makes perfect sense.  What these extraterrestrials would not believe made sense would be a picture of a flat disk sitting around in space in a universe populated by spherical bodies.  If you deny the possibility of life on other planets, you're being an idiot.
quot;In the beginning the Universe was created.  This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2006, 09:43:03 PM »
The sun have an effect on the light path, it pulls the light up, so the light rays get curved. That's why your sister saw the earth as it was curved.


Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2006, 11:07:07 PM »
Yes, absolutely right. The sun bends light due to it's gravitational pull (which Flat-Earthers claim doesn't exist). But here's the thing, light travels faster than most objects in the universe (Those that aren't slower, are the same speed - gravitons for instance). The faster you are moving, the harder it is to turn (that's why we slow down at corners when driving) At the speed of light, bending of the path is very minimal, and from our position on earth, the effect is only visible when staring straight at the edge of the Sun (through a polarised telescope, since you can't see much when staring at the Sun).

The picture, thankfully, cleared up absolutely nothing. It doesn't make any sense. The only thing that would cause curvature of light as you have described around earth, is Earth's gravitational pull (which doesn't exist) and even then, the pull has to rival the Sun's to make any noticable effect. Which would also affect us, by crushing us under the brute force of air.

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2006, 02:45:34 PM »
Or maybe the earth appeared curved because it is?

While it is possible to bend light rays, it would be incredibly difficult to create enough gravity to make the earth appear curved if it wasn't.  Since flat-earthers believe that gravity is caused by some source other than the mass of the earth (or any similarly large object), you have no way of justifying your claim that gravity bends the light enough to make the earth look curved.
quot;In the beginning the Universe was created.  This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

--Douglas Adams

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2006, 03:13:36 PM »
I didn't say that the earth has gravity, I didn't say that the force that bends the light to the sun is gravity either (but may be).

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2006, 03:19:57 PM »
Perhaps I'm just ignorant, but I don't know of any other force that could bend light.  What do you suggest this force is?
quot;In the beginning the Universe was created.  This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

--Douglas Adams

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2006, 03:26:48 PM »
Quote from: "Maureen"
Perhaps I'm just ignorant, but I don't know of any other force that could bend light.  What do you suggest this force is?


Excellent point, considering that photons have almost zero physical mass and ONLY TRAVEL IN STRAIGHT LINES.

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2006, 03:30:34 PM »
Well, they don't necessarily only travel in straight lines, since black holes have a gravitational pull that is even strong enough to capture light, but I can't fathom any other force capable of bending them to create this illusion.
quot;In the beginning the Universe was created.  This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

--Douglas Adams

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2006, 03:52:14 PM »
I'm still not sure what sort of force it is, may be gravity (of the sun).

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2006, 04:21:01 PM »
It is incredibly hard to bend light (black holes being one of the only objects in the universe that can easily do it). Whilst stars can bend light as well, if humans were anywhere near such a source of gravity they would be dead, squashed, smooshed, crushed no questions asked.

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Cinlef

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2006, 08:29:09 PM »
Quote from: "Javier_Vierja"
I'm still not sure what sort of force it is, may be gravity (of the sun).

Lets use your logic
I say there is an invisible undetectable force lets call it force X I have no idea how it works or what scauses it. However I know it is proof that everything I believ in is right. Ergo the the earth is round due to force X.
Debate closed
Wait what I NEED TO HAVE A BASIS FOR MY STAMENTS. I CANT JUST WITHOUT ANY PROOF OR BASIS SAY THAT THERE IS A FORCE THAT DISCREDITS EYE-WITNESS EVIDENCE THAT DISPROVES MY ASSUMPTIONS? OH MY GOD BUT THEN THAT WOULD MEAN THAT WHAT JAVIER_VIERJA SAY IS TOTAL BULLSHIT AS ITS WITHOUT BASIS EITHER FACTUAL OR LOGICAL HELL ITS NOT EVEN A CLEVER LIE!! WAIT YOU MEAN THATS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS? THAT THIS ARGUMENT CANT FUNCTION IF WE DONT ABIDE BY SIMPLE LOGIC BUT INSTEAD RESORT TO MORONIC IT MUST BE A LIE CAUSE IT CONTRADICTS MY STUPID BELIEFS? OH I SEE
An enraged
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2006, 10:36:03 PM »
You have disproved nothing, you only have offended.

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Erasmus

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2006, 11:30:33 PM »
Quote from: "Maureen"
Well, they don't necessarily only travel in straight lines, since black holes have a gravitational pull that is even strong enough to capture light, but I can't fathom any other force capable of bending them to create this illusion.


Actually, Maureen, the very theory that predicts that light follows a curved path around a black hole also claims that light always travels in a straight line (in a vacuum with no electromagnetic fields).

It just so happens that straight lines are bent by proximity to massive objects (or so goes the theory); why exactly this is, I believe, is a question on which there is much speculation but little robust theory.

And just because I hope this will really piss certain people off, it *also* states with conviction that all objects (yes!  not just gravitons and photons but also bicycles and ice cream and comets and Bill Gates) travel at the same speed as light!  And... you guess it... in straight lines!  Whee!

-Erasmus
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2006, 01:11:19 AM »
It's possible to bend light without gravity... See light follows the fastest route possible. In nearly all cases, that is a straight line. But it's faster to go closer to a large gravitational mass, so they follow the curve. And it's faster to glide through hot air than cool air, so on hot days when the tarmac is REALLY hot, light from the sky travels near the road and then up to our eyes. That is what causes the reflecton on the road.

I mean, that still doesn't help the case of Flat-Earthers since there isn't any real way to simulate the same Round-Earth from a Flat-Earth for every person facing different directions all from different positions. The illusions would cross somewhere (much like two people facing the same road from different directions wouldn't see the same mirage) and there'd be someone out there see a pretty funny shaped world. And I'm fairly certain that the only (insert shape here)-Earth Society is this one.

Besides, this technology isn't even available yet. A proper theory of light is only just coming into being with advancements in quantum mechanics. If we could create cool illusions like that, we'd have holographs by now. Damn, I can't wait till that happens.

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Cinlef

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2006, 08:29:10 AM »
Quote from: "Javier_Vierja"
You have disproved nothing, you only have offended.

No you have proved nothing which I pointed out (granted in an angry way) you accuse us of being brainwashed and then someone points out a problem with your theory you invoke a force  which is unamed unexplained and whose only noticeble effect is that it invalidates a claim that shows a flaw in your theory? You can't do that ? You could have attempted to  invalidate her statment if you had proof that a force bends light making flat things appear curved or perhaps cited demonstratable examples fo this occruing you did neither you just resorted to idiotic circular reasoning. Rather than proper logic stament A is true thus Stament B is true thus Stament C is true. Your saying Stament C must be true thus stament B is true because it confirms stament C which is circular and faulty logic.
Abiding by that logic I could say Stament C=The earth is round thus there must exists stament B a force (force X) that makes the earth be round. End disscussion.  I have not done this (except caustically) because I abide by logic
Ask yourself who is the brainwashed one? Or elaborate on your explanation for light bending. However the stament as you made it is invalid and utterly worthless.
An enraged
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2006, 06:38:06 PM »
Quote from: "Cinlef"
Ask yourself who is the brainwashed one?

OK.... thinking... reasonng "logically", elaborating an answer.... more reasoning... AND THE ANSWER IS...
¿Cinlef?

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Cinlef

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Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2006, 08:11:08 PM »
The brainwashed one is the one who will not except a logical chian of reasoning that proves something but instead holds to there beliefs dogmatically. In this case your inablity to counter an observation which would seem to invalidate your point led you to create an pseudo explanation rather than either pointing out a logical flaw in her stament proving it to be false or reconsidering your assumptions this would tend to indicate our brainwashed or not very bright or that you were stal;ling to think up a real point that invalidates her observation. If it was the last one then now would be a good time to bring it up
An enraged
Cinlef
Truth is great and will prevail-Thomas Jefferson

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cinlef is the bestest!

Melior est sapientia quam vires-Wisdom

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2006, 09:31:17 PM »
Cinlef, aren't you taking it too seriously?

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pspunit

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« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2006, 09:57:58 AM »
He's enraged, you can tell because that's his sign-off. Enraged people are serious. Also kudos to Cinlef for a good point.
Three people of different nationalities walk into the bar. Two of them say something smart, and the third one makes a mockery of his fellow countrymen by acting dumb."

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2006, 03:06:48 PM »
I think that in posting those ice shelf pictures all these people did was prove that they in fact do not believe the theory they support, in attempting to carry their ideas with data they know is fake.

Are there images available a the ice-wall?
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2006, 12:31:47 AM »
This topic has already been covered and was a win scored by team flat. I suggest you go here and get ready to have all you believe  turned on its head.   http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=564&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Where to from here....go, tell your neighbour "Don't be a round earth 'tard."