What do you think about gun control laws?

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FlatAssembler

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What do you think about gun control laws?
« on: February 09, 2022, 01:40:29 AM »
An issue I have been thinking a lot about lately is gun control. Should Croatia, the country where I live, pass stricter gun control laws? I was wondering what you guys here think about it. While I am quite sure prisons are not a sensible policy, I am not so sure about gun control. I can think of some rather compelling arguments both for and against gun control, from the purely consequentialist perspective (so, not appealing to rights and similar concepts).

AGAINST:
1) How could it work given what gun control laws actually say? Gun control laws in most countries make automatic and semi-automatic weapons illegal, while leaving non-automatic weapons legal. But automatic and semi-automatic weapons are precisely those weapons that can come useful in self-defence, when every second counts. Criminals generally do not use automatic or semi-automatic weapons. Why would they? An attacker has all the time in the world to set up his or her weapon for the attack. It is the defender that needs to respond immediately, for whom automatic weapons may come useful. How could such gun control laws be anything but counter-productive?
CONTRA: This is argument from incredulity.

2) Self-defense use of guns seems to greatly outnumber the number of deaths caused by guns. It is hard to tell how often self-defense using guns happens, but it can be anywhere between 100'000 times per year to more than a million times per year. For comparisons, guns only cause around 50'000 deaths per year.
CONTRA: Many of those self-defense uses of guns would not be necessary if there were no guns to begin with.

FOR:
1) There appears to be a really strong consensus among social scientists that gun control helps.
CONTRA: That consensus may be based on political bias, since social scientists tend to be very left-wing.

2) There seems to be a strong correlation between gun ownership and violent crime within the US.
CONTRA: There does not seem to be such a strong correlation elsewhere, such as in Europe. The UK has among the lowest gun ownership rates in Europe, yet it is the highest in violent crime. Croatia and Serbia have the highest gun ownership rate in Europe, yet they are very low in violent crime.

Like I have said, I was wondering what you think.
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Masalang the Torpedo

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2022, 01:53:47 AM »
Someone once said that guns dont exist. SO not sure why you need a control on a non existent gun

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2022, 02:40:08 AM »

If you look at overall murder rates per million the UK is not too bad, number 157 on the list at around 12/M, Croatia is 152 @14 with the poster boy/girl for owning death machines the US 99th with 42/m.

The gun lobby plays on a fear that in civilised countries is extremely rare, that is someone breaking into your house who will kill you, if they break in at all they usually do so to steal and will usually flee if disturbed.
There are quite a few studies that show that an armed person is more liable to get killed than an unarmed one, partly due to people feeling overconfident going places they would stay out of if they were unarmed or confronting bad guys waving a gun that they hardly know how to use, also accidents (people are stupid) go up, suicides are easier, and spur of the moment red mist events are so much more deadly.

Bottom line, do you want a killing machine in your house so you can periodically pose in the mirror and shoot the odd can on the absolute outside chance a bad man comes all at the expense of ending up like the US?
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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2022, 11:08:31 AM »
So, what do you guys here think, is it reasonable to believe that guns exist? I am not sure. People around me are telling me guns exist, but that I cannot get one myself to check that because the police in Croatia, where I live, somehow prevents the civilians from owning guns, for some reason that escapes me. So, there is either a conspiracy of American movie-makers making people thing guns exist, or there is a conspiracy of the police somehow preventing people from getting guns to see for themselves that they exist. What do you think is more likely?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2022, 11:34:35 AM »
Control your guns!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JJA

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2022, 11:45:55 AM »
No shirt sleeves are capable of keeping these guns under control.

Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2022, 11:47:38 AM »
Use a holster?
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JJA

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2022, 11:48:55 AM »
Can't holster these.
💪

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Flatearthreign

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2022, 12:43:38 PM »
If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.
Earth is flat. Everyone should know that Earth is flat. If you do not know Earth is flat, you should learn about the Earth.

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Masalang the Torpedo

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2022, 01:04:58 PM »
If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.

This tired old chestnut again ::) sure mate, go nuts then

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2022, 01:12:26 PM »
If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.

Pistol? What about an AR-15 with a 60-Round magazine?
"Corn grows without tossing a girl down the well?"
"Oh, that makes sense." . . . . .
. . . . . "Turns out, it's the god of rain that's in charge."

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2022, 01:18:56 PM »
I will let you borrow mine.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Masalang the Torpedo

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2022, 02:05:16 PM »
Gun control

Lets make 'smart guns' - where the gun can recognise whether it's being aimed at a person or car or anything else we don't want guns to hit and prevent it from firing in such situations.

The dickhead who shot up a bunch of kindergarteners would have been unable to shoot at them. But if he was using his guns to hunt feral pigs and rabbits, no problem.

Of course, law enforcement may need to use it against people from time to time. So they can have those features turned off.

Pretty sure such a thing won't go down well with the 2nd amendment crowd 8)

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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markjo

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2022, 05:16:32 PM »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Rayzor

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2022, 05:47:56 PM »
It's worth re-watching "Bowling for Columbine" to recognise that the US has a violent gun sub-culture that has complex origins and runs very deep.

Not something that you'd ever change overnight.   Not saying there aren't common sense things that could be done to try and get guns out of the hands of the nutters.



Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Flatearthreign

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2022, 12:03:10 AM »
If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.

Pistol? What about an AR-15 with a 60-Round magazine?
In which country is that allowed?
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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2022, 12:56:06 AM »
If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.

Pistol? What about an AR-15 with a 60-Round magazine?
In which country is that allowed?

The United State of 'Merica.  With the exception of 9 States and DC:

Magazine Capacity Laws by State 2022


The federal ban on large-capacity magazines has ended (Expired 2004). However, nine states and the District of Columbia have enacted laws banning large-capacity magazines.

These states are:

California
Colorado
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Hawaii
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New York
Vermont


For all the other States, load as many as you got. In other words, it's perfectly legal for SCG to brandish her AR-15 with a 60-Round mag.
"Corn grows without tossing a girl down the well?"
"Oh, that makes sense." . . . . .
. . . . . "Turns out, it's the god of rain that's in charge."

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Flatearthreign

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2022, 05:13:39 AM »
Then it should be banned. There is no reason for anyone to use a automatic gun other than in military. Automatic guns are only for mass murder. It has no more use than pistols in terms of self defence.
Earth is flat. Everyone should know that Earth is flat. If you do not know Earth is flat, you should learn about the Earth.

Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2022, 08:41:11 AM »
"automatic"

careful
ted cruz and NRA nuts will mansplain you.

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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2022, 09:19:55 AM »
Then it should be banned. There is no reason for anyone to use a automatic gun other than in military. Automatic guns are only for mass murder. It has no more use than pistols in terms of self defence.

Do you mean automatic or semi-automatic?
"Corn grows without tossing a girl down the well?"
"Oh, that makes sense." . . . . .
. . . . . "Turns out, it's the god of rain that's in charge."

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2022, 09:35:16 AM »
Don't worry, my AR is too heavy for me to hold it long enough to mow down more than 5 or 6 people.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2022, 09:44:46 AM »
We need lightweight AR-15s with unicorns stenciled on the side!

It's time to close the gender mass murder gap!

#ladyguns
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Crouton

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2022, 09:54:01 AM »
To the original question.  I don't know a lot about Croatia.  About all I can tell you is some of the mistakes America made when it comes to guns so hopefully you can avoid them.

Our biggest problem is the second amendment which has been contorted from its original intent.

The way it's interpreted now makes gun ownership a right as opposed to a privilege. 

If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.

This person is probably trolling but it illustrates my point.  A motor vehicle is a very dangerous piece of equipment.  We're explicitly told that operating one is a privilege and not a right.  If the state determined that you can't or won't operate a vehicle safely then you'll be denied this privilege.  If you drive drunk or have some serious vision problem or have serious mental illness problems they'll take your license away and throw you in jail if they catch you driving.

Guns on the other hand, we can't even take away guns from known terrorists in this country.
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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2022, 10:10:35 AM »
"Corn grows without tossing a girl down the well?"
"Oh, that makes sense." . . . . .
. . . . . "Turns out, it's the god of rain that's in charge."

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2022, 10:16:08 AM »
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2022, 10:35:52 AM »
Ask and you shall receive...

"Corn grows without tossing a girl down the well?"
"Oh, that makes sense." . . . . .
. . . . . "Turns out, it's the god of rain that's in charge."

Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2022, 11:05:39 AM »
To the original question.  I don't know a lot about Croatia.  About all I can tell you is some of the mistakes America made when it comes to guns so hopefully you can avoid them.

Our biggest problem is the second amendment which has been contorted from its original intent.

The way it's interpreted now makes gun ownership a right as opposed to a privilege. 

If I decide to kill someone I could use a knife. I could use a vehicle. If I decide to do stupid things I could run a truck into a crowd, which kills more than using a pistol.

This person is probably trolling but it illustrates my point.  A motor vehicle is a very dangerous piece of equipment.  We're explicitly told that operating one is a privilege and not a right.  If the state determined that you can't or won't operate a vehicle safely then you'll be denied this privilege.  If you drive drunk or have some serious vision problem or have serious mental illness problems they'll take your license away and throw you in jail if they catch you driving.

Guns on the other hand, we can't even take away guns from known terrorists in this country.

in most cases there are curbs, barriers, and other vehicles.
the ability mow down people are far a few.

christmas santaclaus parade in wisconsin.
toronto incel POS.
that truck thing in france.
and the weapon is not the most maunuverable if the victim is paying a attention.

knifing relies on the reach of the person's arm.
japan's killer took out a bunch of kids so not a real good example.
the guy in britain didn't get too far before some mma guys took him - i'm possibly mixing up my stories by now


vs large mag weapons on a super stable shooting platform makes it easy to spraying a concert, packed school, packed festival, drive bys, etc, etc, etc

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2022, 01:35:05 PM »
Ask and you shall receive...



They should hire you to design all the lady guns.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Stash

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2022, 02:36:38 PM »
The bleeding hearts are stickers. You put one on every time you've successfully defended your lime trees from marauders.
"Corn grows without tossing a girl down the well?"
"Oh, that makes sense." . . . . .
. . . . . "Turns out, it's the god of rain that's in charge."

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Calen

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Re: What do you think about gun control laws?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2022, 02:56:14 PM »
What if the marauders come bearing coconuts to enjoy with the limes?
Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë!