What causes the rotation?

When you look through a basic telescope you can watch as a star or any other celestial object moves across the field of view. Now though it seems to vary from one model or belief system to another, the general consensus among flat Earth believers seems to be that we live on a motionless Earth (since we feel no movement) while the heavens rotate above the Earth.

That being the case then, what exactly is causing the heavens to rotate if the Earth is stationary?

When you look through a basic telescope you can watch as a star or any other celestial object moves across the field of view. Now though it seems to vary from one model or belief system to another, the general consensus among flat Earth believers seems to be that we live on a motionless Earth (since we feel no movement) while the heavens rotate above the Earth.

That being the case then, what exactly is causing the heavens to rotate if the Earth is stationary?

They rotate because they have been rotating since the dawn of the universe and nothing causes them to stop. Meanwhile, the Earth is an infinitely large plane and hence will not be affected by the gravity of the spinning heavens.

They rotate because they have been rotating since the dawn of the universe and nothing causes them to stop. Meanwhile, the Earth is an infinitely large plane and hence will not be affected by the gravity of the spinning heavens.

So do you think the heavens are a solid object with the stars permanently fixed to it?
Because otherwise, that wouldn't cause a rotation. It would cause the stars to travel in a straight line such that the stars that were originally above us would have been long gone.

gravitational lensing. not exactly like the globe people think of it but very similar. sun and stars are far away things on a infinite earth plane and over far enough distance, even light curves. so we see these far away things. but uneven gravity bends light differently across the 24 hours so it looks to rotate. like looking at yourself in uneven mirror (funhouse mirror). very short explaination but the basics

They rotate because they have been rotating since the dawn of the universe and nothing causes them to stop. Meanwhile, the Earth is an infinitely large plane and hence will not be affected by the gravity of the spinning heavens.

If the Earth is an infinitely large plane,  what happens at the intersection between the plane of the Earth and the celestial hemisphere?

They rotate because they have been rotating since the dawn of the universe and nothing causes them to stop. Meanwhile, the Earth is an infinitely large plane and hence will not be affected by the gravity of the spinning heavens.

Well thanks for that but how does this provide an answer to my question... what causes the rotation? I would say that the motion I see is caused by the rotation of the Earth and that seems to be backed up by all the evidence collected by science. But I'm guessing you would have a different explanation.

An infinitely large plane? I would say finite but unbounded. As in the surface of a sphere. Have you got any evidence that the Earth is an infinitely large plane. Other than simply what you believe?

sun and stars are far away things on a infinite earth plane

If they were very far away, they would appear at the same location for everyone.

and over far enough distance, even light curves.

Not without a reason, and that reason would provide directionality.

very short explaination but the basics

There was nothing resembling an explanation there. Just a collection of assertions, which don't even attempt to address the issue.

All though i now know that you are basically trolling me, i will pretend you are serious and answer your questions

Quote from: Hyperverse on February 07, 2022, 02:58:16 PM

sun and stars are far away things on a infinite earth plane

If they were very far away, they would appear at the same location for everyone.

not with the lensing which is the whole point. and no far away does not even normally appear the same to everyone. goggle the word parallax (not the one in the bad green lantern movie)

Quote from: Hyperverse on February 07, 2022, 02:58:16 PM

and over far enough distance, even light curves.

Not without a reason, and that reason would provide directionality.

reason is lensing and no it would not provide directionality at least not easily

Quote from: Hyperverse on February 07, 2022, 02:58:16 PM

very short explaination but the basics

There was nothing resembling an explanation there. Just a collection of assertions, which don't even attempt to address the issue.

if it explained nothing to you that is a you problem not a me problem. i presented a reason why things look the way they do. nothing more is asked of anyone.

What causes the universe to exist? The universe simply exist as it does. What causes the heaves to rotate? They simply rotated when they comes to existence and nothing causes them to stop. What causes the Earth to remain stationery? It simply has been stationary since it’s existence and nothing causes it to rotate.

What causes the universe to exist? The universe simply exist as it does. What causes the heaves to rotate? They simply rotated when they comes to existence and nothing causes them to stop. What causes the Earth to remain stationery? It simply has been stationary since it’s existence and nothing causes it to rotate.

What happens if a bunch of people start running around the edge really fast?  Will that cause the stationary Earth to start slowly rotating?

Don't earthquakes show that the Earth can move?  What if we jump up and down really hard? Can we tilt it?

The Earth is infinitely large plane and we do not know what is beyond the ice wall. Hence its mass is infinite. Earthquakes only affect a finite area. The heavens rotate around the center of mass of the celestial objects.

The Earth is infinitely large plane and we do not know what is beyond the ice wall. Hence its mass is infinite. Earthquakes only affect a finite area. The heavens rotate around the center of mass of the celestial objects.

Earthquakes only affect a finite area?  How do you know this?  Have you been to all the infinite parts of the Earth to measure?

Large enough earthquakes can affect the entire surface of the earth, we know this because we measure it. 

All though i now know that you are basically trolling me, i will pretend you are serious and answer your questions

Just what makes you think I am trolling? That I don't just accept whatever you say?
Pointing out problems isn't trolling.

no far away does not even normally appear the same to everyone. goggle the word parallax (not the one in the bad green lantern movie)

Far away does appear basically the same to everyone.
That is why everyone on Earth observing the sun, sees it basically the same.

Even the moon is far enough away such that everyone observing it sees basically the same face.
Yes there is some minor variation as the moon is only 400 000 km away, but it appears the same.

And for a more distant example, there are the stars, where everyone on Earth sees the constellations the same. Yes, Earth obstructs the view to half of the sky and so the ones you can see vary with your position on Earth, and the curvature of Earth makes the stars appear at a different position relative to the horizon, but the constellations that are visible appear the same.

Compare that to something that is close. 2 people looking at a building, where that building is close compared to the separation between the people see significantly different views, in some cases they see different sides of the building.
Draw a circle, and then move around close to it and see how it appears to distort into an ellipse.

And yes, parallax does explain this.
When something is close, the parallax is large.
For example, if you have 2 people separated by 1 unit, and the object is 1 unit away from the midpoint, then the parallax is ~53 degrees.
So these people see the object from quite a different angle.
But if the object is far away, say 1000 units away from the midpoint, then the parallax drops to 0.06 degrees. Now the 2 people are seeing the object from basically the same angle and thus will see basically the same thing.
If you increase the distance to 1 million units away, then the parallax drops to 0.00006 degrees. Absolutely tiny.

This not only determines what they see of the object, but also what direction they have to look.
For example, if the 2 people were separated by a line going due east/west, and the object was straight up above the midpoint, then in the first case, the eastern observer has to look ~26 degrees west of straight up, while the western observer has to look ~26 degrees east of straight up.
In the last case they are both basically looking straight up.

So if the stars are very far away, without invoking magic bendy light (which you need an explanation for) if a star appeared directly overhead for one person, it should appear directly overhead for everyone.

reason is lensing and no it would not provide directionality at least not easily

If it doesn't provide a directionality for it to curve, then what way is it meant to curve?

The reason MUST provide a directionality, and it also provides the magnitude.

For gravitational lensing the directionality is towards the object, just like things fall towards the object.
For refraction it will be either towards or away from normal, depending on if the light is going into a higher or lower refractive index.

if it explained nothing to you that is a you problem not a me problem. i presented a reason why things look the way they do. nothing more is asked of anyone.

No, if it explained nothing, then that is your problem.
You presented a collection of assertions.
You asserted that light curves, giving an example of gravitational lensing, but you provided no explanation of just what is providing the gravity to cause this gravitational lensing or what else causes the light to curve, you made no attempt to explain the directionality, which again would involve discussing what is causing it to curve, nor did you try to explain the extent that it curves.

But more importantly, you made no attempt at all to explain why the stars appear to circle the 2 celestial poles, or to put it as the OP did, you made no attempt to explain "what causes the heavens to rotate".

What causes the universe to exist? The universe simply exist as it does. What causes the heaves to rotate? They simply rotated when they comes to existence and nothing causes them to stop. What causes the Earth to remain stationery? It simply has been stationary since it’s existence and nothing causes it to rotate.

Then why does the length of the day change? Why do Earthquakes also cause the length of the day to change?

The Earth is infinitely large plane and we do not know what is beyond the ice wall. Hence its mass is infinite. Earthquakes only affect a finite area. The heavens rotate around the center of mass of the celestial objects.

What causes them to rotate about this centre of mass, with the vast majority of objects having the same period, while the sun and moon and other planets have different period and more chaotic paths?

Are they attached via some rod, with that frame spinning?

Just what makes you think I am trolling? That I don't just accept whatever you say?
Pointing out problems isn't trolling.

you keep demanding i defend something that i am asking questions about. if i want to learn about how rabbits mate i dont need to prove anything about rabbits. i am looking for information, that doesnt mean i need to have all the answers you demand.

Far away does appear basically the same to everyone.
That is why everyone on Earth observing the sun, sees it basically the same.

if two people at dusk and dawn look at the stars as they come or go the stars will be slightly different to them. not much but if pictures are overlayed the stars are slightly different and astronomers use that to guess how far away stars are, at least according to there mathematical rules. but maybe this is what you mean with "basically". yes they look the same, but there are small differences that can be important to some. not so much with moon and sun but with some things

If it doesn't provide a directionality for it to curve, then what way is it meant to curve?

I think we use the word directionality different. what does it mean to you?
The reason MUST provide a directionality, and it also provides the magnitude.

Quote from: Hyperverse on February 08, 2022, 02:35:10 AM

if it explained nothing to you that is a you problem not a me problem. i presented a reason why things look the way they do. nothing more is asked of anyone.

No, if it explained nothing, then that is your problem.

No bc you are demanding something from me and i demand nothing from you. if you are not satisfied with what i gave you and just keep demanding more and more, im not going to keep giving you

You presented a collection of assertions.
You asserted that light curves, giving an example of gravitational lensing, but you provided no explanation of just what is providing the gravity to cause this gravitational lensing or what else causes the light to curve

Gravity. it is all around you

Quote from: JackBlack on February 08, 2022, 12:51:08 PM

Just what makes you think I am trolling? That I don't just accept whatever you say?
Pointing out problems isn't trolling.

you keep demanding i defend something that i am asking questions about. if i want to learn about how rabbits mate i dont need to prove anything about rabbits. i am looking for information, that doesnt mean i need to have all the answers you demand.

It looks like you've got all the information out of this place you're gonna get regarding whatever it is you're looking for.

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 08, 2022, 05:17:18 AM

What causes the universe to exist? The universe simply exist as it does. What causes the heaves to rotate? They simply rotated when they comes to existence and nothing causes them to stop. What causes the Earth to remain stationery? It simply has been stationary since it’s existence and nothing causes it to rotate.

Then why does the length of the day change? Why do Earthquakes also cause the length of the day to change?

Quote from: Flatearthreign on February 08, 2022, 10:06:59 AM

The Earth is infinitely large plane and we do not know what is beyond the ice wall. Hence its mass is infinite. Earthquakes only affect a finite area. The heavens rotate around the center of mass of the celestial objects.

What causes them to rotate about this centre of mass, with the vast majority of objects having the same period, while the sun and moon and other planets have different period and more chaotic paths?

Are they attached via some rod, with that frame spinning?

Why does the galaxy rotates about its center of mass with the same period, while other objects rotate around each other with different periods? It is just the same.
As for earthquakes, the change is extremely small, and imperceptible. You are just relying on the information by the government to claim the the length of a day changes, but in reality, you never measured it yourself.

you keep demanding i defend something that i am asking questions about.

Does this look like a question to you:

gravitational lensing. not exactly like the globe people think of it but very similar. sun and stars are far away things on a infinite earth plane and over far enough distance, even light curves. so we see these far away things. but uneven gravity bends light differently across the 24 hours so it looks to rotate. like looking at yourself in uneven mirror (funhouse mirror). very short explaination but the basics

It certainly doesn't look like one to me.
You even claimed it was a very short explanation.
So it certainly looks more like you trying to defend a FE.

You even doubled down by saying:

i presented a reason why things look the way they do. nothing more is asked of anyone.

So don't try to say you are just asking questions.

if two people at dusk and dawn look at the stars as they come or go the stars will be slightly different to them.

Because they are on a round Earth, in different locations on that round Earth, looking in different directions.

not much but if pictures are overlayed the stars are slightly different and astronomers use that to guess how far away stars are, at least according to there mathematical rules.

This is stellar parallax, which takes place over the course of half a year (another thing FE can't explain).
This is tiny.
The closest star, proxima centuri, has a parallax of less than 1 arc second, and again, that is over the course of half a year, with a distance of ~ 300 000 000 km.

Compare this to what is observed for the apparent position of stars on Earth, where a star can be directly overhead for 1 person, due east on the horizon for another, due west on the horizon for another and not visible at all for another.

This tiny parallax will not save your flat Earth.

I think we use the word directionality different. what does it mean to you?

In this case, it is a direction for the light to curve.
In general, it is something giving rise to anisotropy, that is something making directions different.

What does it mean to you?

No bc you are demanding something from me and i demand nothing from you.

I'm not the one coming here claiming to explain how the stars work on a FE, that would be you.

If you didn't state that it was an explanation, then you would have some ground stand on.

Gravity. it is all around you

From what? Earth? If so, that would bend light downwards by a negligible amount. And it is in the wrong direction for what you need.

Why does the galaxy rotates about its center of mass with the same period, while other objects rotate around each other with different periods? It is just the same.

No, it isn't the same, and you didn't even get it correct.

In the RE model, they are literally orbiting different things. For example, the Earth moon system rotates about the sun with 1 period. This is because they are physically orbiting the sun. The Moon orbits with a different period, as it is orbiting Earth, an object with a mass that is different to the sun, with a distance between them different to the Earth-Sun distance.

And in the galaxy, not everything orbits the galactic centre with the same period.

Converesly, you have the vast majority of objects circle around a point in the sky, with the majority all having the same period regardless of distance, and then a few bonus objects following different paths.
It is nothing like the galaxy.

As for earthquakes, the change is extremely small, and imperceptible.

But measurable by sensitive equipment.

If your nonsense was correct, there is no reason at all for it to change at all.

Stop just rejecting evidence that shows you are wrong.

You are just relying on the information by the government to claim the the length of a day changes, but in reality, you never measured it yourself.

You mean to tell me the garden sundial I have in the backyard is actually getting info from the government?

Can your garden sundial measure changes to microseconds?

Because they are on a round Earth, in different locations on that round Earth, looking in different directions.

Ooooh, youre a globey, that explains everything. i dont know how to explain in globist terms sorry

Can your garden sundial measure changes to microseconds?

So you're claiming the government is lying about the Suns position but by such a small amount you can't measure it.

Uh, okay.

I think those government run radio stations that broadcast the time are lying too. They deliberately are off by 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds which is totally true and you can't prove otherwise because your watch isn't accurate enough.

So many conspiracies everywhere!  They are also lying about how long an inch is by half a plank length! 

You claim that earthquakes cause the length of a day to change. But the change may not exist as you can’t measure it and it is only claimed by the authorities.

You claim that earthquakes cause the length of a day to change. But the change may not exist as you can’t measure it and it is only claimed by the authorities.

So according to you, anyone capable of measuring time to the precision required is an 'authority' and part of the conspiracy and lying?

How convenient. 

Why don't you simplify all your responses to "It's a conspiracy!"  It would save everyone time.

The ability to measure changes that small is reserved to only the government and people who has high technology. These people account for very small proportion of the mankind. Hence if this small proportion of people intends to deceive us, it would be easy.

The ability to measure changes that small is reserved to only the government and people who has high technology. These people account for very small proportion of the mankind. Hence if this small proportion of people intends to deceive us, it would be easy.

You actually think the only atomic clocks in existence are owned by a small number of government agencies? 

My advice is you need to actually do a little research before you reply, as just making stuff up in your head doesn't work very well.  You need to check with reality before stating things with such conviction or you will continue to look very foolish. We have had this conversation before, haven't we? 

You can easily find an atomic clock accurate enough to measure the Earths rotation changes caused be large earthquakes.  Atomic rubidium reference clocks are common and sold  by many companies.  You can buy one yourself.

Here, read about some normal people who use atomic clocks as a hobby. Unless of course, they are also part of the conspiracy.  Insidious.

https://hackaday.com/2015/05/27/measuring-accuracy-of-rubidium-standard/

You can even rent a rubidium standard for £60 a month.

Where do I get one?

Where do I get one?

Google is your friend?  I found half a dozen companies selling them when I replied to you earlier.  Ask an adult for help?