War

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Unconvinced

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Re: War
« Reply #3780 on: October 03, 2024, 03:11:43 AM »

It's very simple.  Just look at this chart and you'll understand.



Eh?  I can’t see what this is trying to show.

Some lines could be rivalries, some alliances, but not in any way that makes sense.  US has a red line with Russia, but so does China.  Iran has blue line with the US and no line to Israel.  Israel only has one line, a yellow one with Egypt.  WFT does it mean?

This is just nonsense, isn’t it?

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3781 on: October 03, 2024, 04:15:28 AM »
Your personal definition of terrorist  just happens to include civilians who have nothing to do with terrorist attacks.
No it doesn't.
If they are a member of a terrorist organisation, they have something to do with it.
If they don't want to have something to do with it, they shouldn't be a member of a terrorist organisation.
It is really that simple.
Especially considering their active participation in that terrorist organisation helps with recruiting new members.

And no.  I happen to agree with the Geneva conventions.
So you are morally bankrupt?
And think that combatants should be required to follow certain rules to be deemed combatants, and if they don't they stay as civilians, who should be protected?

And I support the ICJ and ICC’s jurisdiction for such things.
I would never support a court based upon victor justice.

None of the above are perfect, but they all exist to try to prevent the world descending into barbarism.
And look at how entirely useless they are.
Look at how effective they have been at stopping groups like Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Queda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Russia, and so on.
They are effectively worthless.

Their main purpose was to pretend "victor justice" was actually just.

The term “legitimate target” only makes sense with respect to a system of rules.
And those rules can be moral rules, they are not necessarily legal, nor international.

Not sure if there’s much else to discuss.  We’re just saying the same thing over and over.
And no one is forcing you to continue. If you don't want to try justifying your defence of terrorists as not legitimate targets, and a fundamentally flawed set of rules, you don't have to.

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Rayzor

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Re: War
« Reply #3782 on: October 03, 2024, 05:42:20 AM »

It's very simple.  Just look at this chart and you'll understand.



Eh?  I can’t see what this is trying to show.

I thought it was obvious.   :)
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Unconvinced

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Re: War
« Reply #3783 on: October 03, 2024, 07:12:35 AM »

And no.  I happen to agree with the Geneva conventions.
So you are morally bankrupt?
And think that combatants should be required to follow certain rules to be deemed combatants, and if they don't they stay as civilians, who should be protected?

I thought I was “morally bankrupt” for supporting rules without reason.  Now I’m “morally bankrupt”  for supporting rules because they attempt to prevent war crimes such as genocide?

And no.  I think combatants are combatants who can be legally fired upon.  If they break the rules by not clearly identifying themselves, they lose their right to be treated as POWs.


I would never support a court based upon victor justice.


Bully for you.  What does that have to do with the ICC or ICJ?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2024, 09:11:16 AM by Unconvinced »

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3784 on: October 03, 2024, 07:54:42 AM »

It's very simple.  Just look at this chart and you'll understand.



Eh?  I can’t see what this is trying to show.

I thought it was obvious.   :)


obvious is always obvious, except the to the oblivious


also
me and this connection map




https://y.yarn.co/dbd0ea48-a4f0-4eac-a10e-0890f76c38d3_screenshot.jpg

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3785 on: October 03, 2024, 03:20:59 PM »
I thought I was “morally bankrupt” for supporting rules without reason.  Now I’m “morally bankrupt”  for supporting rules because they attempt to prevent war crimes such as genocide?
No you are morally bankrupt for appealing to rules and supporting them when they are fundamentally flawed, and continuing to ignore those flaws or even attempting to defend them.
They can also be used to defend genocide and prevent the attacking of people who commit genocide.

And no.  I think combatants are combatants who can be legally fired upon.  If they break the rules by not clearly identifying themselves, they lose their right to be treated as POWs.
And lose the right to be treated as combatants and instead are to be treated as civilians according to the Geneva conventions.
So if you have a terrorist group operating out of a different country, you are only permitted to attack them when they are actually engaged in fighting. After they retreat back to safety, they are protected, and you would have to arrest them and try them in a court of law.

Bully for you.  What does that have to do with the ICC or ICJ?
The ICC is based upon the IMT, which was established to pretend the prosecutions of German's was just, rather than just proceeding to summary execution, with those living victims of the IMT pardoned.
It has no ability to enforce its verdicts, except in the case of a defeat of a party with that party then being subject to it, or a party handing over someone they control.
They do not serve to stop genocide, war crimes, etc. They just act to try punish those they can after they have done that. And typically only on the party deemed "bad" while ignoring the war crimes of the side deemed "good", or just having those governments refuse to allow their people to be prosecuted. Look at the US response to accusations of crimes against humanity in Afghanistan.

They have even indicted Vladimir Putin, and look at what that is doing to the war between Ukraine and Russia - Absolutely nothing.

In effect, it only works for victor justice.

The ICJ is is even less useful, just offering adjudication which only works if the parties agree.


For everyone:

The colours allegedly represent shared interests, specifically in relation to the Islamic State.
e.g. the red between US, China and Russia represent a shared interest in "they are threatened in similar fashion by the expansionist Islamic extremism of Islamic State."
More here:
https://graphics.wsj.com/isis-strange-bedfellows/

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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3786 on: October 17, 2024, 12:13:28 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.
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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3787 on: October 17, 2024, 12:26:57 PM »
netanyahu says with his own face to jordanpeterson that the jews are taking back their homeland.
and is in line iwth their "settlements", prison style occupation and the current indescriminant bombing.

it has nothing to do with hamas except using hte name as an excuse.

it will continue.
palestinians are being kicked out [of living].

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3788 on: October 17, 2024, 02:36:54 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.
Until the hostages are released, this will continue.
Once the hostages are released, if Hamas doesn't surrender or get wiped out, this will likely continue.

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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3789 on: October 17, 2024, 04:39:33 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.
Until the hostages are released, this will continue.
Once the hostages are released, if Hamas doesn't surrender or get wiped out, this will likely continue.

So a forever war basically.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3790 on: October 17, 2024, 09:24:02 PM »
unless you're a US evangelical hoping for armagedon

then it's the final war

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Rayzor

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Re: War
« Reply #3791 on: October 18, 2024, 01:56:17 AM »
unless you're a US evangelical hoping for armagedon

then it's the final war

This is the bit where I get confused, is it Armageddon ( aka final war) or is the Rapture that the Evangelical nutters are hoping for?

I'm inclined to say let them go, either way.



Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Lorddave

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Re: War
« Reply #3792 on: October 18, 2024, 02:35:30 AM »
unless you're a US evangelical hoping for armagedon

then it's the final war

This is the bit where I get confused, is it Armageddon ( aka final war) or is the Rapture that the Evangelical nutters are hoping for?

I'm inclined to say let them go, either way.
It's both.
The rapture is just God's 'evacuate my civillians' pre-war action.  Then he sends down Angels to wage war on Hell, which has taken over earth.
Gone.

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3793 on: October 18, 2024, 03:01:55 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.
Until the hostages are released, this will continue.
Once the hostages are released, if Hamas doesn't surrender or get wiped out, this will likely continue.

So a forever war basically.
Probably. But in a way, it has been like that for quite some time.
Has there truly been peace since WWII?

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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3794 on: October 18, 2024, 08:46:48 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.
Until the hostages are released, this will continue.
Once the hostages are released, if Hamas doesn't surrender or get wiped out, this will likely continue.

So a forever war basically.
Probably. But in a way, it has been like that for quite some time.
Has there truly been peace since WWII?

If you're counting only the large scale conflicts that destroy nations, yeah, we had a good run there.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Peace#See_also
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Unconvinced

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Re: War
« Reply #3795 on: October 18, 2024, 09:13:43 AM »
Jack, I never said thanks for explaining that bonkers diagram.

Never occurred to me it would a decade old and specifically about ISIS.

Anyway, this should be the moment to get serious about ending the war and working towards a settlement.  It won’t be, unfortunately.


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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3796 on: October 18, 2024, 11:57:55 AM »
I do not thank Jack.  I curse him.  I googled "most confusing map of the middle east" for that.  Some mysteries aren't meant to be solved.
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Unconvinced

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Re: War
« Reply #3797 on: October 18, 2024, 12:04:45 PM »
Why you…

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3798 on: October 18, 2024, 12:21:10 PM »
jack does a very important job

tahnk you for your service





https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png





edit (because i can't figure out how to get the image to mage):  i hate this place



edit edit:  SUCCESS!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2024, 02:05:14 PM by Themightykabool »

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JackBlack

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Re: War
« Reply #3799 on: October 18, 2024, 01:41:01 PM »
If you're counting only the large scale conflicts that destroy nations, yeah, we had a good run there.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Peace#See_also
The long peace is only really focusing on the "superpowers". That also means unless you count Ukraine vs Russia, it would still be deemed to be "Peace", even with Israel destroying Gaza.

During that time there was still plenty of conflict, such as the Korean war, the Vietnam war, the Afghanistan war, the many conflicts in Israel/Palestine, and so on.


Jack, I never said thanks for explaining that bonkers diagram.

Never occurred to me it would a decade old and specifically about ISIS.

Anyway, this should be the moment to get serious about ending the war and working towards a settlement.  It won’t be, unfortunately.
You're welcome.
Google image search is your friend.


edit (because i can't figure out how to get the image to mage):  i hate this place
You need to enclose the image url with bbcode image tags, i.e.
Code: [Select]
[img]https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png[/img]

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Pezevenk

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Re: War
« Reply #3800 on: October 22, 2024, 01:26:45 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.

Who, the guy that took charge after they got the other guy and nothing changed? Nah, won't end anything.
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Pezevenk

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Re: War
« Reply #3801 on: October 22, 2024, 01:45:16 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/17/israel-iran-lebanon-war-news-gaza-hamas/

They got him! Well a guy anyways. I don't know if it changes anything. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to end this Massacre.
Until the hostages are released, this will continue.
Once the hostages are released, if Hamas doesn't surrender or get wiped out, this will likely continue.

Doesn't matter what Hamas do. How would they even be wiped out? Even if they were, as long as there's still Palestinians in Gaza, the children whose families were killed would grow up to make Hamas 2.0.

There are three ways that this war may end that are probably the most likely. What Netanyahu wishes is for a final solution: occupation of all of Gaza, cleansed of Palestinians, who will either flee to other places or be killed. They want that regardless of whether or not Hamas surrender. What might happen instead is that eventually, everyone else gets sick of this and heavily boycotts and isolates Israel, to the point where the war starts becoming very costly for Israel, and they are forced to bargain, although in very favorable terms. Or, Israel somehow manages to piss off Iran enough that they go into all out war, in which case who knows what happens.

Here's a "conspiracy theory": Israel has said that they've basically fully infiltrated Hezbollah's communications for years now. They haven't said much about Hamas communications of course, but there is that fact. There is also the fact that Egyptian intelligence allegedly knew about October 7 (or rather, figured out something was probably about to happen) and warned Israel: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/

That's even though I would certainly not expect Egyptian intelligence to be anywhere near as sophisticated in monitoring Hamas as the Mossad. It's becoming hard to believe the Mossad did not have any idea about the attack. So I don't believe Netanyahu cares at all about what happens to hostages. More likely he just wanted an excuse. They've been freaking out about high Palestinian birth rates and population for some years now.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 01:48:40 AM by Pezevenk »
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3802 on: October 23, 2024, 03:36:36 PM »
3,000 is a good size.
proxy wars allow DPRK to do some active skirmishing.
test their mettle.

but what's really there?


tinfoil hat time

allows China to suit up and send aid through proxy DPRK?



WWIII
who's got guns and a cabin in the hills?

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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3803 on: October 23, 2024, 03:49:34 PM »
It's easy to tell North Koreans apart from the Chinese.  Just look for the ones that are shorter than 5 feet.

Actual combat experience is definitely a good thing for any military.  But the problem is exposing their soldiers to the outside world.  We're talking about a population who will defect over junk food.  https://abcnews.go.com/International/freedom-wounded-korean-soldier-defected-means-100-boxes/story?id=51861040

This doesn't even look that good.  We have way better junk food in the US.

Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Themightykabool

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Re: War
« Reply #3804 on: October 23, 2024, 04:24:33 PM »
hhaha

koreans tend to have bigger heads

but at 200-500yards?
maybe for snipers.

grainy drone video?
hard to tell a china man from a korea man

but where will they desert to?
ukraine?
russia?
russia also doesn't like deserters




big heads
there's a family guy or simpsons or something somewhere there...



haha






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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3805 on: November 03, 2024, 09:09:45 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/03/israel-gaza-human-shields-palestinians-idf/

More inspiring tales of heroism from the most moral army in the world.
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The truth behind NASA's budget

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Pezevenk

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Re: War
« Reply #3806 on: November 06, 2024, 12:19:28 AM »
It's almost like they were projecting the whole time.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3807 on: November 21, 2024, 08:32:30 AM »
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

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Pezevenk

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Re: War
« Reply #3808 on: November 21, 2024, 08:39:13 AM »
Of course it won't do shit but at least they did it.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

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Crouton

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Re: War
« Reply #3809 on: November 21, 2024, 08:40:06 AM »
It'll limit where they can vacation.  That's something. 
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget