War

D1 disagrees and thinks ethnic cleansing is totally awesome. (That's obviously an oversimplification)

Wait, I thought you said the Ukrainians were being taken as slaves?

Now you're saying they are being ethnically cleansed?

Can both really happen at the same time?

Quote from: Crouton on October 23, 2022, 12:26:19 PM

D1 disagrees and thinks ethnic cleansing is totally awesome. (That's obviously an oversimplification)

Wait, I thought you said the Ukrainians were being taken as slaves?

Now you're saying they are being ethnically cleansed?

Can both really happen at the same time?

Why would one preclude the other?

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Ukrainians under Russian control are being forced to put on Russian uniforms and advance into the front line to reveal Ukrainian positions.  Their children are being abducted and sent to Russian families.  In liberated cities there are mass graves and torture sites.  Russian soldiers are being supplied with Viagra to rape Ukrainian women more efficiently.  One particularly grisly picture is a box of golden fillings.

They are killing them to steal the fillings from out of their teeth.

I apologize if the terms slavery and genocide cause offense.  What terms would you use to describe this behavior?

They are killing them to steal the fillings from out of their teeth.

That sounds like war propaganda to me.

Next they will be making soap out of them.

Besides weren't you saying not to invest in gold?

Quote from: Crouton on October 23, 2022, 12:26:19 PM

D1 disagrees and thinks ethnic cleansing is totally awesome. (That's obviously an oversimplification)

Wait, I thought you said the Ukrainians were being taken as slaves?

Now you're saying they are being ethnically cleansed?

Can both really happen at the same time?

The Nazis seem to have figured it out in their concentration/extermination camps.

The soap and lampshades turned out to be atrocity propaganda. That was the point I was making. It sounds absurd because it is.

Not to take anything away from the actual atrocities during ww2.

Edit.
Sorry I thought you responded to my last post. The holocaust is accepted as a genocide, not as taking slaves.

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Hmmm ... I was told you agreed with both of those things?

The holocaust is accepted as a genocide, not as taking slaves.

Working untold thousands of forced laborers to death seems like a combination of slavery and genocide to me.

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 04:24:50 PM

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Hmmm ... I was told you agreed with both of those things?

I thought he questioned the validity of the holocaust itself. Certainly used to. D1 is trying to be on his best behaviour now. He knows certain words stringed together will get him banned lol

I can't see why the nazis couldn't work their slaves to death or kill them after they did some work. The Jews were still a resource to abuse. The Jews were captured, enslaved, tortured and killed. To die was always the end point of the nazis plan. There was no pathway to freedom

D1 still agrees with eugenics. That's why he believes interracial marriages and immigration (of any skin hue that isn't white) is wrong.

Nah just genocide. Dead slaves can't work.

Because they are dead.

To die was always the end point of the nazis plan. There was no pathway to freedom

So it was a genocide, not slavery.

I'm happy not to discuss things SCG doesn't want to be discussed here.

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 04:24:50 PM

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Hmmm ... I was told you agreed with both of those things?

We've known each other for quite some time now. I don't think I ever got a chance to say thank you for being such a good example for Christianity that I was converted. I was just thinking about you on the weekend.

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 06:01:17 PM

The holocaust is accepted as a genocide, not as taking slaves.

Working untold thousands of forced laborers to death seems like a combination of slavery and genocide to me.

I think when a lot of people think of slavery they think of American slavery which is sort of unusual in which it was somewhat stable.

Usually slavery involves just working people to death so the genocide is usually built in.

That's just bad economics. It doesn't make sense to kill your slaves.

After they are dead they can't work anymore.

So we are denying the atrocities of the holocaust then? Nazis weren't as bad as history made out? Misunderstood folk?

Dipshitone showing his true colours....

I'd say go look up history but then you'd just say it was all lies and propaganda

Quote from: Bom Tishop on October 23, 2022, 06:43:11 PM

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 04:24:50 PM

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Hmmm ... I was told you agreed with both of those things?

We've known each other for quite some time now. I don't think I ever got a chance to say thank you for being such a good example for Christianity that I was converted. I was just thinking about you on the weekend.

Although that is the biggest compliment anyone could give in my eyes, and it means more than you know. In the end, you made that decision yourself and I couldn't be happier! It makes me smile anytime I think about it, by far the best thing that has come from this place. Funny how a place that is generally negative and damaging produced something so positive.

I have shot you a random email from time to time during my absence here, though I didn't know if you changed it or not. I knew you have went through a lot and was a little worried about you. I was worried life might have pushed you away from your new faith as it will always try.

Nah just genocide. Dead slaves can't work.

Because they are dead.

Then it was a good thing (sorta) that there was a constant supply of fresh slaves to work to death.

So we are denying the atrocities of the holocaust then? Nazis weren't as bad as history made out? Misunderstood folk?

Dipshitone showing his true colours....

I'd say go look up history but then you'd just say it was all lies and propaganda

There is a difference between slavery and ethnic cleansing.

Quote from: Wolvaccine on October 23, 2022, 07:28:47 PM

So we are denying the atrocities of the holocaust then? Nazis weren't as bad as history made out? Misunderstood folk?

Dipshitone showing his true colours....

I'd say go look up history but then you'd just say it was all lies and propaganda

There is a difference between slavery and ethnic cleansing.

So are you saying Jews were not enslaved? They were not forced to work against their will?

I suggest you do some research before you continue this discussion

http://www.camps.bbk.ac.uk/themes/slave-labour.html

Hard labour was compulsory in SS camps like Dachau from the start, even for many sick prisoners. Forced labour brought practical benefits for the SS, as prisoners had to build and maintain their own camps. Above all, the SS saw hard labour as a way to punish prisoners. Often there was pointless labour, designed only to torment inmates.

From the late 1930s, SS economic ambitions grew. Early on, prisoners were forced into gruelling work at brickworks and quarries . Later, more and more prisoners were exploited for the war effort. The SS set up hundreds of satellite camps during the war, with the eager collaboration of German industry. SS leader Heinrich Himmler claimed that his slaves produced vital armaments. In reality, they made no major contribution to the war effort.

Countless prisoners were worked to death during the war. Work brought great pain, not freedom, as the cynical SS slogan (“Arbeit macht frei”) at the gates of Dachau, Auschwitz and other camps proclaimed. Prospects were particularly bleak for prisoners in construction. By contrast, the smaller number of prisoners in production enjoyed slightly better conditions. Overall, the main product of SS slave labour was not armaments, or bricks, or stones, but the suffering and death of prisoners.

Anyway, back to buddy Putin and his Hiterlesque ambitions for the Ukrainian people. I see why you'd get along with that cold eyed soulless bastard. After all, he's a 'Christian' too

Quote from: Bom Tishop on October 23, 2022, 06:43:11 PM

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 04:24:50 PM

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Hmmm ... I was told you agreed with both of those things?

I thought he questioned the validity of the holocaust itself. Certainly used to. D1 is trying to be on his best behaviour now. He knows certain words stringed together will get him banned lol

I can't see why the nazis couldn't work their slaves to death or kill them after they did some work. The Jews were still a resource to abuse. The Jews were captured, enslaved, tortured and killed. To die was always the end point of the nazis plan. There was no pathway to freedom

D1 still agrees with eugenics. That's why he believes interracial marriages and immigration (of any skin hue that isn't white) is wrong.

At the end of the day you kinda want your slaves to stay alive and at least somewhat healthy to continue working. If you let them keep dying, you eventually run out?

I never seen him question the validity of it, though wondering if the numbers have been inflated yes, which I think is a valid thought. It is at least a possibility with how much control certain Jewish families have on A LOT of things. Though many places it is a criminal act to even have an ounce of criticism on anything Holocaust related.

As for eugenics, I have only seen him say there is nothing wrong with a race of people wanting to keep their traits etc if they so choose. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want no matter the race in my eyes.

Be with who you want.... Even though I am Cherokee/French, I like Latinas, which is why I am married to one and have a kiddo. However, if I wanted to preserve my Cherokee or French side and choose to only be with one or the other, how is that bad? I am not saying everything else is evil, simply my own decision and what is important to me.

I would definitely say it's a problem if I say Cherokees are better than all other races, or worst other races should be destroyed.... Haven't heard anything like that from D1

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 07:04:19 PM

Quote from: Bom Tishop on October 23, 2022, 06:43:11 PM

Quote from: disputeone on October 23, 2022, 04:24:50 PM

When people take slaves they tend to keep the slaves around.
So they can work.

When people are being ethnically cleansed they aren't kept around.

Both are obviously bad.

Hmmm ... I was told you agreed with both of those things?

We've known each other for quite some time now. I don't think I ever got a chance to say thank you for being such a good example for Christianity that I was converted. I was just thinking about you on the weekend.

Although that is the biggest compliment anyone could give in my eyes, and it means more than you know. In the end, you made that decision yourself and I couldn't be happier! It makes me smile anytime I think about it, by far the best thing that has come from this place. Funny how a place that is generally negative and damaging produced something so positive.

I have shot you a random email from time to time during my absence here, though I didn't know if you changed it or not. I knew you have went through a lot and was a little worried about you. I was worried life might have pushed you away from your new faith as it will always try.

I appreciate it and you deserve the compliments.

Life does try to push us away from him. My cross is heavy but not nearly as heavy as his.

Only God can take something negative and turn it into a positive. It's a miracle in real time.

At the end of the day you kinda want your slaves to stay alive and at least somewhat healthy to continue working. If you let them keep dying, you eventually run out?

It's not that complex, Shifter.

Wolvaccine To your last post yes they were forced to work against their will. Only started mass killing when they ran out of money/resources (read a lot of the court transcripts with officers after the war), not that many people knew of the mass killing even in the higher up ranks. They tried to keep it pretty buried for multiple reasons

Yeah so it's fair to say that it started out as slavery. That's more than reasonable.

I just think you can't genocide slaves and have them work at the same time. That was my original point.

It's been blown out of proportion now.

When will you all realize that the USA and Russia are actually managed by the same hand? After someone enslaves us, it doesn't make much difference whether it's Germans, Russians or Americans.

Europeans need to wake up. Otherwise, the situation is not going to good at all.

Doing what the Americans, Russians or Germans say will not gain these people anything. As Turks, we don't trust anyone and try to stay neutral on the safest side, but the pressure is too much. Those who do everything they are told increase the pressure we experience.

When will you all realize that the USA and Russia are actually managed by the same hand? After someone enslaves us, it doesn't make much difference whether it's Germans, Russians or Americans.

Have you read animal farm? It's interesting.
"I will work harder."
The movies don't do the book justice. Especially in terms of Boxer the horse.

The final passage makes this point. That greed is greed, no matter who is in charge whether it's pigs or men.



Orwell was good on diagnosing problems but not as good at offering solutions. On my first reading of 1984 I didn't fully appreciate the necessity of the war between the three superstates for the totalitarian model.

Europeans need to wake up. Otherwise, the situation is not going to good at all.

I agree with this in the strongest possible terms.

Edit.
Image.

I mean I know some of you just like to be contrary for the sake of it, but to argue that you can’t have a slave and work them to death, or that it isn’t a thing, is retarded beyond belief.

I knew a guy (dead now) who had worked on the Burma railroad, and he would have issue with this as he watched and endured as at least a third of his mates were starved and beaten to death, or just plain executed for being too ill to work, the Thais and Burmese civilians were probably treated even worse, 100,000 died in its construction.

Slavery is very rarely about getting the very best out of your workforce, it brings the worst out of us humans to be in complete control of the lives of others and there isn’t a conquering race that hasn’t been guilty. 

Slavery is an evil thing.

I wasn't making a moral argument, just an economic argument. It would be like buying a tractor and never changing the oil, just using it until it seizes and then buying a new one.

Sure you can do it. It's just not practical.

Maybe I shouldn't have made the point but I just thought it was silly to say that a people are being ethnically cleansed and being taken as slaves simultaneously.

I don't think the Ukrainians are being taken as slaves or being ethnically cleansed when you turn down the hysteria slightly.

The war is awful and it's awful when people die unnecessarily but being hyperbolic about it doesn't help. Especially with what is on the line.

Yeah, but if you could get a tractor for next to nothing, hated tractors with a vengeance, were a vicious small minded little bastard who resented spending money on oil and could get another probably cheaper than the oil needed to keep it going and actively enjoyed its discomfort because you suspected you wife was fiddling with its carburettor when you were away, then who knows.

Check out working conditions at Mitsubishi’s huge factory complex at Mukden, Manchuria, WW2

I have no doubt slaves have been worked to death. Or worked until they refused to work and were shot, slavery is an evil thing.

Do you think the Russians are taking Ukrainians as slaves?

I haven't seen anything that makes me believe so, no.

There again there is always exploitation. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/19/ukrainian-workers-flee-modern-slavery-conditions-on-uk-farms