War

I don't understand why people keep talking about actually taking the territory as making some kind of very significant difference. What if Putin in the end decides that he doesn't want to take Ukraine's territory, is it suddenly fine? Actually he has said he doesn't want to annex Ukraine, and he probably really doesn't want to do that, because that would be dumb and fail.

I'm not sure why you don't think he wants to annex Ukraine. Russian state media accidentally released an article I posted here just the other day prematurely claiming victory and stating Putin had reclaimed Ukraine for Russia. It's pretty weird to just assume they had that story ready to go when he doesn't intend to annex the entire country.

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 03, 2022, 08:41:57 AM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 03, 2022, 08:28:32 AM

Also if the EU plunged into a war with Russia, that would not only screw with the world economy for the average pleb all over the place but also interfere with trade

The EU is currently doing a good job screwing up its economy without entering a war. I don't think people have realized how much it depends on Russian gas.

This is just poor forward planning to not have an alternative (seems like renewables would be a good idea about now). I fail to see your point about the EU screwing up its economy

In a way, it's good to have trade with Russia. Russia can see the benefits of being a world partner and a reason to try and keep relationships cordial. And if Russia decides to go full retard, you have something you can take from them. Such as all the sanctions we have done against it.

If we had isolated Russia from the start, how could we punish them? And why would Russia care about the rest of the world? To me, it seems like the problem with Russia mainly stems from one cold hearted ex KGB stuck in the past cold war bastard, Vladimir Putin.

Germany used to be the worlds antagonist. So was Japan. But they changed course and now they are among the strongest countries in the world. Russia could be too. But you seem to argue that Russia would have to 'kowtow' or capitulate and somehow be weaker and be a victim to 'western interests' if they did so. Ever imagine that maybe if Russia did partner up or ally with 'the west' it would actually be a nicer place to live and do business with?

Ι never said Russia should have been isolated. It's not good to isolate countries. But it was very stupid to get so dependent on natural gas while also poking and often alienating Russia. Either decide you'll have good relations or decide you'll also have a backup plan which the EU doesn't have.

Again, Russia did try to partner up. The west didn't want a partner at the time because they were riding the high of winning the Cold War. The idea was to maintain complete control over Russia, and not even on comparatively good terms for them like with Japan and Germany. The important difference was that Japan and Germany were needed to counterbalance China and the USSR. But when the USSR was disbanded (and the west expected China would also capitulate soon at the time), there was no longer from their standpoint such a significant reason to need a strong Russia as a partner. Their approach was "ok now we'll have fun with your economy". And that's why Putin became so popular in the first place.

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 03, 2022, 08:47:35 AM

I don't understand why people keep talking about actually taking the territory as making some kind of very significant difference. What if Putin in the end decides that he doesn't want to take Ukraine's territory, is it suddenly fine? Actually he has said he doesn't want to annex Ukraine, and he probably really doesn't want to do that, because that would be dumb and fail.

I'm not sure why you don't think he wants to annex Ukraine. Russian state media accidentally released an article I posted here just the other day prematurely claiming victory and stating Putin had reclaimed Ukraine for Russia. It's pretty weird to just assume they had that story ready to go when he doesn't intend to annex the entire country.

Whoever writes these probably has pre-written a bunch of different stories for many different contingencies and is very unlikely to know what is actually being planned.

Quote from: Pezevenk on March 03, 2022, 08:47:35 AM

I don't understand why people keep talking about actually taking the territory as making some kind of very significant difference. What if Putin in the end decides that he doesn't want to take Ukraine's territory, is it suddenly fine? Actually he has said he doesn't want to annex Ukraine, and he probably really doesn't want to do that, because that would be dumb and fail.

You believe Putin? If all he wanted was the Donbass region, he would have just taken it like he did Crimea. Instead he is attacking from all the sides he can and is after the capital and the death or exile of its elected President

Why are you so quick to believe Putin lol

Putin probably thought Ukraine would fold like paper like Afghanistan did and as such wouldn't have the extremely heavy sanctions he has to deal with now. Like half his war chest he's saved for years now unrecoverable. At the time, he probably didn't think it would be 'dumb'. But Ukraine resisted and the world is backing their success

The fact that his soldiers are apparently starving and had no idea they would be going into such fierce resistance kind of gives away they all thought this would be a cakewalk

Crimea was already autonomous, it was much easier to take that unlike Donbass, where only about a third of its territory is currently held by separatists and none of it is recognized as autonomous by Ukraine.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-putin-wants-all-of-ukraine-and-worse-is-to-come-in-conflict-warns-macron-12556609

According to Russian state media, and according to Putin (per Macron), Putin wants to take all of Ukraine. So either Russian state media (which is controlled by Putin), Macron, and Putin himself are lying, or you are wrong.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-putin-wants-all-of-ukraine-and-worse-is-to-come-in-conflict-warns-macron-12556609

According to Russian state media, and according to Putin (per Macron), Putin wants to take all of Ukraine. So either Russian state media (which is controlled by Putin), Macron, and Putin himself are lying, or you are wrong.

What? Putin is definitely lying according to you when he says he doesn't want to take all of Ukraine. Russian state media are also definitely lying according to you since they say the same thing. I don't know why you think Putin just tells everything he is planning to do to Russian state media ahead of time, this would be a huge liability, intel would be leaked all the time. And what you cited doesn't even say he wants to annex Ukraine:

According to the official, Mr Macron told the Russian leader that he was making a "major mistake" in Ukraine, adding: "You are lying to yourself".
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Mr Putin told Mr Macron that the invasion will continue "until the end" unless negotiations meet his terms.

These, Mr Putin said, must centre on the "neutralisation and disarmament of Ukraine" - with the Russian president saying he would attain the goal by military means, if not by political and diplomatic means.

This clearly isn't saying he wants to annex it. What he'll actually do is a different story but he's not saying that he wants to annex Ukraine here.

Also this isn't even Macron saying these things, it's an official of Macron who apparently heard them talk, the headline is just wrong.

Vladimir Pozner talking about some of the things I brought up about the expansion of NATO and the way Putin was "created":

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-cat-ban-ukraine-war/

The International Cat Federation says it has banned Russian cats from its international competitions in the latest rebuke to Russia since it invaded Ukraine last week.

The federation, which considers itself “the United Nations of Cat Federations,” said in a statement that it was “shocked and horrified” that Russian forces had invaded Ukraine and “started a war.” Known as FIFe (for its French name, Fédération Internationale Féline), it said that the measures were decided Tuesday and that officials could not “witness these atrocities and do nothing.”

It said the rule would remain in place until the end of May and would then be reviewed.

“No cat belonging to exhibitors living in Russia may be entered at any FIFe show outside Russia, regardless of which organization these exhibitors hold their membership in,” said the organization, which spans almost 40 countries.

This is the final straw. Putin will not be able to survive this, and will order all troops home.

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on March 03, 2022, 05:28:56 AM

I want to buy a tank, can anyone lend me the money?

They're a bit pricey. But if you volunteer to go to Ukraine and join their army then I hear Russia will eventually donate a tank to you.

I'd rather someone else just gave me the money tbh

At this point I think you can probably get a tank in exchange for a sandwich from these Russians in Ukraine.  You might have to throw in a bag of chips depending on the model of tank.

For some reason you could already buy tanks on eBay before. I don't really understand how people got hold of them but apparently it is a thing that happens.

Now we know what war is good for, ebay tanks!

As the manager for the Moral Response Team for the Brotherhood of the Dome or MFTMRTFTBOTD I shall acquire a tank in order to spread the truth of the flat earth.

Quote from: boydster on March 03, 2022, 09:21:42 AM

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-putin-wants-all-of-ukraine-and-worse-is-to-come-in-conflict-warns-macron-12556609

According to Russian state media, and according to Putin (per Macron), Putin wants to take all of Ukraine. So either Russian state media (which is controlled by Putin), Macron, and Putin himself are lying, or you are wrong.

What? Putin is definitely lying according to you when he says he doesn't want to take all of Ukraine. Russian state media are also definitely lying according to you since they say the same thing. I don't know why you think Putin just tells everything he is planning to do to Russian state media ahead of time, this would be a huge liability, intel would be leaked all the time. And what you cited doesn't even say he wants to annex Ukraine:

Quote

According to the official, Mr Macron told the Russian leader that he was making a "major mistake" in Ukraine, adding: "You are lying to yourself".
Advertisement

Mr Putin told Mr Macron that the invasion will continue "until the end" unless negotiations meet his terms.

These, Mr Putin said, must centre on the "neutralisation and disarmament of Ukraine" - with the Russian president saying he would attain the goal by military means, if not by political and diplomatic means.

This clearly isn't saying he wants to annex it. What he'll actually do is a different story but he's not saying that he wants to annex Ukraine here.

Also this isn't even Macron saying these things, it's an official of Macron who apparently heard them talk, the headline is just wrong.

Whatever you say. There's really no reason state media should have a story prewritten saying Ukraine had been made a part of Russia if Putin didn't ask to have that story ready to go. I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to make a counterpoint that you totally don't think he really wants to do that.

Putin lying to the west about his intentions in order to try and save face to look less like he's acting like a warmongering dictator is just a normal day for him.

What? Putin is definitely lying according to you when he says he doesn't want to take all of Ukraine. Russian state media are also definitely lying according to you since they say the same thing. I don't know why you think Putin just tells everything he is planning to do to Russian state media ahead of time, this would be a huge liability, intel would be leaked all the time. And what you cited doesn't even say he wants to annex Ukraine:

Putin doesn't need to leak it someone inside the FSB is feeding intel to the US.  And yes Putin would like to annex all of Ukraine, and re-install Yanakovich (sp?).

Whatever it is that he really wants is becoming increasing irrelevant, he has so far united the EU,  isolated Russia from world trade, pissed off his Oligarch friends,  exposed the Russian military machine as a poorly maintained, poorly led disaster,  managed to isolate the extremist wing of the evangelicals and right wing in the US.  Lost the propaganda war that everyone was expecting him to win.  ( Zelensky is working the media and inspiring resistance brilliantly ). 

Nice work for one week.

What could possibly go wrong?

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499531172493373445

Russians shelling a nuclear reactor was not on my bingo card.   I wonder who thought this was a good idea?

Edit: All under control, nothing to see here...  Evidently the reactor is still operating and all the safety systems are intact. 

It's okay. The UN has called an emergency meeting about it. In a week's time we should have a firm condemnation on attacking nuclear power plants.

It's okay. The UN has called an emergency meeting about it. In a week's time we should have a firm condemnation on attacking nuclear power plants.

Which will be vetoed by Russia.

In other news, since it looks like Roscosmos is going all in supporting the invasion, I wonder what's happening on the ISS?

Rogozin has already made some bizarre threats about de-orbiting the ISS?   

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1499713427761246211

I would agree that America has violated international law and human rights on many different occasions.  It's when people use this as a whataboutism to justify Russia that I think they're a Putin apologist.

On this conflict the West absolutely does have the moral high round.

What a sad joke you are.

You support the NEO-NAZI state in Ukraine, because you are a NAZI.

Wow, Pez thinks this action by Russia against a neighbour was caused by the west being "arrogant".. 

Do you have evidence he is wrong? Because he has evidence he is right.

Yes but after another few weeks they'll have a special session that Russia can't block. And a week following that, a statement of strong condemnation!

As for deorbitting the iss as a weapon, the UN will definitely have words about that. Russia is on its way to earning a demerit that will show up on its permanent record.

Putin probably thought Ukraine would fold like paper like Afghanistan did

Imagine, some m---------hairbrained fool believing Afghanistan "folded like paper," at some point in their history and imagine the same hairbrained fool thinks there could possibly be other people that would believe the assessment.

Your opinion is trash.

STFU and go to hell, you penguin.

I'm not sure why you don't think he wants to annex Ukraine. Russian state media accidentally released an article I posted here just the other day prematurely claiming victory and stating Putin had reclaimed Ukraine for Russia. It's pretty weird to just assume they had that story ready to go when he doesn't intend to annex the entire country.

You are a liar.

Russian state media released no such article.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-putin-wants-all-of-ukraine-and-worse-is-to-come-in-conflict-warns-macron-12556609

According to Russian state media, and according to Putin (per Macron), Putin wants to take all of Ukraine. So either Russian state media (which is controlled by Putin), Macron, and Putin himself are lying, or you are wrong.

news sky is a fucking lying piece of goddamn crap.

Okokok  wild idea

Trump boasted he "talked" down kim jun.
Remeber that movie the interview with former friends seth and franco.
They should deputize trump to go in talk to putin.
Be hillarious.
Could even have him eat a bugged bigmac.

The thought crossed my mind. I'd say they should load him up with misinformation before hand but I'm sure he'd create his own misinformation.

WISHTOLAUGH sounds broken.

You OK bro?

WISHTOLAUGH has taken a few days off to appreciate the many wonderful words in our language beyond the four letter variety.

The thought crossed my mind. I'd say they should load him up with misinformation before hand but I'm sure he'd create his own misinformation.

Bonus - he defects to hide from his manymany local crimes

https://twitter.com/PattyArquette/status/1499859884371689474?s=20&t=unsaRcX6jgE0ZApjH-HHDw

Kick Russia out of NATO

Great idea, Patricia!