My impossible challenge for FE'ers

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turbonium2

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #690 on: January 01, 2023, 02:05:59 AM »
Mass isn’t a force.

Density isn’t a force. 

When an object is put upward into the air, it is due to a force, that ACTS on the object, causing the motionless object to BE in motion, due to that force. The object itself, is motionless, unless a force acts on it. There is no object in air, without a force acting on it, to make it move upward into air.

As I've said many times already, that is the only force which IS causing the object into motion, which is making it move upward into the air. If you use very little force, to act on the object, it will not rise up very high into air, and it will rise much higher than that, when you use more force to act on it, which means it is the degree, or amount, of force, which causes less or more motion of the object, throughout it's motion upward in air, because it goes higher up with more force, than with less force, while both forces act on it for the same split second of time, so that means it moves more or less due to how much FORCE acts on the object, that split second of time, and caused all of it's motion upward, and when that force died off, which CAUSED the object into motion upward, the object slows down, and stops moving upward, after the force died out.

An object isn't in motion without there being a force acting on it, within a split second, but will cause it to move for a longer period of time, because it is a transfer of it's energy, in a split second, making all of it's motion, upward into air.  It cannot go up in air, and continue to go up in air, by itself.

So when you throw a brick up in air, due to your own force acting on it, the mass and density of the brick, are in motion, and it's mass and density have more force than a little pebble does, when both are in motion, right? If you throw a brick up, and it hits someone on the head above you, it might break his nose, but not when you throw up a pebble, and hit him on the head, because it has less force than the brick does.



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JackBlack

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #691 on: January 01, 2023, 02:21:00 AM »
Yes, down IS towards the surface.
If you want to play that stupid game, then so are countless other directions.
So why down?

Objects within air fall down, STRAIGHT down, to the surface, because they have more mass and density than the air they are within.
That provides no reason at all.
Why should being denser than the air make them move at all? And why should that motion be directed downards?

No, they fal directly DOWN from air to the surface, because they have more mass and density than the air they're within. That is what 'directs' them straight downward - their greater mass and density than the air they're within.
So again, what you are saying is that their origin has absolutely nothing to do with it, and you were repeatedly lying every time you indicated it did?

But again, why does being denser direct them downwards?

Come on, get serious. Objects on a cliff are already above Earth's flat surface.
No they aren't.
They are on Earth's surface.
But if you want a better example, dig a deep hole. Then push an object on Earth's surface into that hole.
The point remains, there is no need for the object to go up first.

Not unless you want to replace Earth's surface with Earth's core.

I'm referring to objects that are at sea level, or lower than sea level, which must be put UP into air FROM there.
Of course you are, because you cling to things being put up, as being put up explains why they go down.
You don't want to deal with simple cases which clearly demonstrate that that idea of yours is delusional BS.

Why does your made up magical force not 'pull down' any object from mountains, if you dangle them halfway over the mountain edge? Why would you need to put most of it off the edge, into air, before it falls down?
You are the one appealing to magic, not me.

Why doesn't your magic move it down? Because your magic is delusional BS which doesn't work at all.

Conversely, gravity is a downwards force.
This can be summed up and simplified as a downwards force acting through the centre of mass of the object.
If this centre of mass is supported, then the object wont go down.
This can be down with something directly under it (although if it is just that point it is quite unstable and the object tilting even a tiny bit will normally make it fall), or it can be from a more broader support or multiple pillars which if you were to draw a 2D convex hull of these pillars, it would include the centre of mass.
This is quite simple to understand.
You need to put that centre of mass in a position where it is not supported. For uniform, symmetric objects, that means more than half needs to be over the edge.

So no, contrary to your blatant lie, gravity, a real force, would not magically pull a supported object down.

If you dangle a steel nail over a table, while it remains there, and then put a magnet under the nail, what happens?
That will vary depending on where you put the magnet.
If you place the magnet in a location where it would be acting on the nail similar to gravity, the nail will remain where it is. If you place it closer to the unsupported section, then that will provide a greater pull on that section causing it to fall. If you place it closer to the supported section, it will hold it better and allow more of the nail to come off the table.

How can we dangle our foot into air, off a ledge, without it being pulled down towards the Earth's surface?
And more dishonest, delusional BS.
You can't. It does get pulled down. And if you do it for long enough, you certainly feel it.
It is just that the feeling is so insignificant you normally don't notice it.
If you think there is nothing pulling you down then try holding yourself up with just your pinkie and seeing if you can feel it.

When any of our ACTUAL forces act on our dangling leg
Like a person or an object dangling off your leg, which you then feel pulling down because it is significant?

If we attach a piece of metal to our dangling leg, a magnet put near it will pull the metal, and pull our leg that's attached to the metal, and we will feel it.
Forget the magnet. Just tie a large piece of metal to your leg. Maybe a 1 tonne ball. And then just dangle that. If your delusional BS was true, you wouldn't feel it. But we know you will.

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JackBlack

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #692 on: January 01, 2023, 02:21:33 AM »
We always feel a force when it ACTS on us, in some way.
Wrong again.
You feel a force that is being transmitted through your body, and is significant enough to be felt.
If it is weak enough, you don't feel it.
That is why if something small falls in your hair you typically don't feel it, because it is insignificant.

Because a normal day, does not have any force acting on us, or not all the time, when there IS a force acting on us, we know it is NOT normal, and is felt by us at the time.
Quite the opposite. Your body is good at tuning at what is normal. So if a force normally acts on you all the time, your body learns to tune it out.

Objects are put into air, OFF the cliff, so they fall through the air, to the surface below them.
Yes, below them, not back to where they came from.
Again, this demonstrates your claim that it is going back to the origin is delusional BS.

Earth's surface is flat, and has waters, and valleys, which are LOWER than the main surface of Earth
And so according to your delusional BS, if you drop something in that valley it should up, towards your magical, non-existent flat surface?
That if you go to the Netherlands, specially an area below sea level, and drop something, it should go up?

Objects within air, fall straight down, to a surface with MORE mass and density than they have. Every one will fall to the lowest point on Earth's surface, in the ocean, on a rooftop, in a valley, or so on.
So again, it has nothing at all to do with the origin, or what direction they were moved in.
Here you are claiming that they simply go down.

So why would we ever NEED to have some sort of 'force', to 'pull all things down from air, to Earth's surface', is because they SAY so.
No, it is because all the evidence indicates that in order to accelerate an object you need a force.
No force, no acceleration.

They've made up a LIST of 'forces', and nobody can question it, or say there are many OTHER forces which exist on Earth, which they have NOT put on their 'official list of forces'!
You can, but that isn't what you are doing. Instead you are claiming there is no force that makes it fall. Instead it falls by pure magic.

When you, or your liars
The compulsive liar here is you.
You use whatever dishonest BS you can to prop yup your failed fantasy, willing to outright lie to everyone.

This is one of your MANY tricks, to deliberately make false, or misleading claims.

Anyone here knows that there are no objects which exist in the air
Except as already provided, the air itself.
But again, this is your entirely baseless claim you are yet to provide evidence for.

You claim 'when an object IS IN MOTION', without saying they are NOT in motion, unless a force ACTS on them, to PUT them in motion!
Again, another baseless claim.
Why must everything have begun motionless?
Why couldn't things have begun to exist that were already in motion?

Again, it is just the level of dishonesty you need to stoop to to pretend your delusional BS works.

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #693 on: January 01, 2023, 02:56:10 AM »

An object isn't in motion without there being a force acting on it,

Then what force causes a ball deep in a cave thrown straight up to slow down faster than what is attributed to air friction, stop for an instant, change direction.  Then accelerate towards the center of the earth into more dense air instead of accelerating up towards the surface into less dense air.

Why does a the ball in a cave decide to accelerate down towards the center of the earth instead of accelerate up? 

You posted, “An object isn't in motion without there being a force acting on it, ” why would a ball in a cave thrown up decide to stop, change direction, then accelerate down towards the earth into more dense atmosphere. 

If it takes a force to place a ball in motion.  Then what force in this example is making the ball accelerate down after loosing all upward momentum? 

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Stash

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #694 on: January 01, 2023, 03:14:17 AM »
Yeah, I'm confused too.

If, as turbo stated, "An object isn't in motion without there being a force acting on it,” then the ball thrown straight up in the air should just stop at some point and hover. The ball was forced up into the air, but there's no force pushing it back down to the ground.

If turbo is right, imagine how easy juggling would be!

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #695 on: January 01, 2023, 03:51:09 AM »


Of course it does. Because they DO originate on Earth's surface, they have to be put up into air, or already BE above sea level, before falling down through air to the surface.



So.  When I drop my mountain trout in a basement on the sea coast, why does it fall down?  And not up to the mountains?  Or drop towards my fresh water aquarium? 


Quote
Sky-High Trout


https://www.gameandfishmag.com/editorial/fishing_trout-fishing_gf_aa066503a/244712

HIGH-LAKE TROPHIES
Most high-elevation lakes in the West were fishless until pioneers, miners and loggers transported fry into them more than 100 years ago. These days scheduled stockings take place by state game departments in lakes where natural reproduction doesn't take place. The lakes vary in elevation from 2,500 feet to over 10,000 feet.
Trout species vary with those elevations. At the lowest, to mid-elevation alpine lakes, one might find eastern brook trout or a mix of brookies, rainbows and cutthroat trout. At mid- to high-elevation lakes different strains of cutts and 'bows are common. Golden trout are deposited mostly at the highest elevations.


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turbonium2

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #696 on: January 01, 2023, 04:21:02 AM »
You feel a force that is being transmitted through your body, and is significant enough to be felt.
If it is weak enough, you don't feel it.
That is why if something small falls in your hair you typically don't feel it, because it is insignificant.

Quite the opposite. Your body is good at tuning at what is normal. So if a force normally acts on you all the time, your body learns to tune it out.

Sure, anyone can claim there is a force, which we never can feel, because it is always acting on us, so it is NORMAL to feel nothing of this force which is acting on us all the time!

When you say something exists, but we cannot tell it exists, or feel it exists, or measure it in any way, or have any PROOF it exists, you're just blowing smoke. There must be evidence to support claims, but you don't have any at all.

To ever prove your phantom force, actually DOES exist, or may exist, it must act exactly the same as all of our ACTUAL forces do. Why would every one of our actual forces, act the same way, have the very same features as all other forces have, are all the same features you'd have to prove are found within YOUR magical force, that's how to prove it DOES exist as an actual force.

But the problem is, your 'force' does NOTHING like any of our actual forces do, it doesn't act at all like all actual forces do, you cannot just SAY there is such a force, that is a real, actual force, when there is nothing of it, to compare it to all our actual forces. There's nothing of an actual force, or even have a similar feature found in all actual forces.

The most obvious one, perhaps, is that all actual forces will be stronger, when nearer to their sources. And all our actual forces, when weaker or stronger, are all MEASURED as weaker or stronger. But you simply say it DOES vary in strength, but it is 'very difficult' for us to MEASURE it as weaker and stronger anywhere, except at the 'equator', it is measured as slightly weaker than elsewhere! There's no proof for that claim, of course.

We have always proven our actual forces exist, can always FEEL them, when they act on us in some way. There is NO actual force, which is always acting on us, or ever acting the SAME way, all the time on us, whenever they actually DO act on us.

All actual forces are simply a source of energy, which do not exist all the time, over the entire Earth. They are not always acting on us, or acting on something, or on everything. They are created, in areas of Earth, and die out later on, and are created again, and die out, again and again, like the force of wind. Other forces are within solid objects, like magnetic force is, and so forth.

But they are all strongest when near their sources, weaker with more distance from their sources, and it is always measurable by us, as a variance of strength, with all our actual forces.

All our forces have resistance to opposing forces, which we know and measure and feel, as resistance.

But what YOUR magical force does, is NONE of those things that actual forces do.

These are things that have PROVEN they are actual forces, they all act the same way, have all the same features, which they MUST have, to be actual forces.


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Stash

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #697 on: January 01, 2023, 04:30:51 AM »
These are things that have PROVEN they are actual forces, they all act the same way, have all the same features, which they MUST have, to be actual forces.

But wait, you said:
An object isn't in motion without there being a force acting on it

If you can't have motion without a force acting on it, a ball tossed straight up in the air would never come down. As there is no force pushing or pulling it down.

How does that work?

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DataOverFlow2022

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #698 on: January 01, 2023, 04:49:39 AM »

Sure, anyone can claim there is a force, which we never can feel,

Hold a 75 lbs dumbbell at full extended arms length parallel to the floor, and tell me you don’t feel the force of gravity.


Anyway…

Quote
The arm in the figure weighs 40.0 N. The force of gravity acting on the arm acts through point A....

https://homework.study.com/explanation/the-arm-in-the-figure-weighs-40-0-n-the-force-of-gravity-acting-on-the-arm-acts-through-point-a-determine-the-magnitude-of-the-tension-force-f-t-in-the-deltoid-muscle-and-the-force-f-s-exerted-by-the-shoulder-on-the-humerus-upper-arm-bone-to-hold-the.html



Thus, the force exerted on the shoulder is
658.78
N
.


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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #699 on: January 01, 2023, 08:57:49 AM »

Sure, anyone can claim there is a force, which we never can feel,

Hold a 75 lbs dumbbell at full extended arms length parallel to the floor, and tell me you don’t feel the force of gravity.


Anyway…

Quote
The arm in the figure weighs 40.0 N. The force of gravity acting on the arm acts through point A....

https://homework.study.com/explanation/the-arm-in-the-figure-weighs-40-0-n-the-force-of-gravity-acting-on-the-arm-acts-through-point-a-determine-the-magnitude-of-the-tension-force-f-t-in-the-deltoid-muscle-and-the-force-f-s-exerted-by-the-shoulder-on-the-humerus-upper-arm-bone-to-hold-the.html



Thus, the force exerted on the shoulder is
658.78
N
.


You don't even need a 75lb dumbbell.   A single sheet of paper will suffice held out straight in front of you with your arms fully extended will be enough to weigh down your arms.  It won't take long before gravity causes your muscles to tire from holding up the weight of a single sheet of paper.
If "deserving" time was a factor for responding on these forums, then no one would be here posting.

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JackBlack

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #700 on: January 01, 2023, 01:53:03 PM »
Sure, anyone can claim there is a force, which we never can feel, because it is always acting on us, so it is NORMAL to feel nothing of this force which is acting on us all the time!
Which isn't what I said at all.
Have you tried hanging by your pinky yet? Or tying the 1 tonne metal ball to your leg?
You can easily feel the force of gravity it countless situations.
But you ignore all them and appeal to an insignificant force (which really means an insignificant stress) transmitted through your body.

If you would like a simpler one, just hold your arm out straight, and leave it there for an hour, see if you feel that.
Or try standing on your hands for an hour, preferably in a plank position.

When you say something exists, but we cannot tell it exists, or feel it exists, or measure it in any way, or have any PROOF it exists, you're just blowing smoke.
Again, good thing what I am doing is absolutely nothing like that.
You can tell it exists by observing things fall.
You can feel it exists, by trying to lift or hold up heavy objects, including trying to hold up your entire body weight.
There are mountains of evidence of the existence of gravity.
But you reject it all because gravity destroys your fantasy.

To ever prove your phantom force, actually DOES exist, or may exist, it must act exactly the same as all of our ACTUAL forces do.
And it does.
It acts in a repeatable, and testable manner.
Countless people have performed experiments like Cavendish to test its existence and/or measure it.
It varies with distance.
It applies a different force to different masses, equivalent to the electromagnetic force applying a different force to different charges, and less fundamental forces like wind applying a different force to different areas.

The only thing "special" about gravity is that it is proportional to mass. That the "gravitational charge" is the inertial mass of an object, such that all objects will accelerate at the same rate in the same gravitational field.
This is equivalent to objects with the same mass to charge ratio accelerating at the same rate.
And this is what lead to Einstein describing it as curved space time.

But that does not negate the fact that it operates just like the other fundamental forces.

You are yet to provide a single example of where it doesn't.
Instead you just repeat the same pathetic lie that it is nothing like an actual force.

The most obvious one, perhaps, is that all actual forces will be stronger, when nearer to their sources. And all our actual forces, when weaker or stronger, are all MEASURED as weaker or stronger.
Just like gravity.
Where the strength will vary around Earth, due to the different distance from the centre of Earth (even after accounting for the rotation).
It isn't just weaker at the equator.
It is strongest at the poles and weakest at the equator, varying between them, with a strength that is related to latitude.

There's no proof for that claim, of course.
You mean there is plenty of evidence, but none that you are willing to accept. Instead you will just dismiss all the evidence you are provided with as lies or fake.
But your wilful rejection of reality doesn't mean there isn't proof of that claim.

We have always proven our actual forces exist, can always FEEL them
Just like you can feel gravity, in multiple ways, as provided above.
But no, you cannot ALWAYS feel them.
They need to be significant enough for you to feel them, and it needs to be a force transmitted through you, and in some way "abnormal".
Like I provided before, if something light enough falls onto you, you don't feel it, because it is not significant enough.
But another great example is air pressure (or water pressure).
We can easily see the effect of air pressure by the use of a vacuum, where we can see this air pressure crushing things.
For example here (and there are countless more examples):

Air pressure is so strong that it can crush a railroad tanker car. But you don't feel it, because you are used to existing at that pressure.

All actual forces are simply a source of energy, which do not exist all the time, over the entire Earth.
Says who?
I guess this means you reject magnetism as well, a force which exists all over the entire Earth, capable of aligning smaller magnets to Earth's magnetic field to allow us to construct compasses to use to help determine direction and location and navigate?

Actual forces can exist throughout time and over the entire Earth.
What you can't do is get unlimited energy from it.
And you can't do that with gravity either.

But they are all strongest when near their sources, weaker with more distance from their sources, and it is always measurable by us, as a variance of strength, with all our actual forces.
Again, just like gravity.

All our forces have resistance to opposing forces, which we know and measure and feel, as resistance.
Just like when you try to lift a heavy object, or if you try riding a bike up a hill.
Or even when you are doing push ups, where as you get tired, you stop being able to fight that resistance and eventually you can't do more.

So again, just how does gravity vary from actual forces?
Each of your lies has failed yet again.
But perhaps more pathetic, you have basically just repeated the same claim twice, and thrown in a third claim which is just an outright lie.

We see that gravity varies in strength with distance from the source and it can be felt, including feeling resistance when you try to fight gravity.
So it certainly seems to check all the boxes for actual forces.

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Themightykabool

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #701 on: January 01, 2023, 06:22:51 PM »

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turbonium2

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #702 on: January 06, 2023, 11:22:28 PM »
Which isn't what I said at all.
Have you tried hanging by your pinky yet? Or tying the 1 tonne metal ball to your leg?
You can easily feel the force of gravity it countless situations.
But you ignore all them and appeal to an insignificant force (which really means an insignificant stress) transmitted through your body.

If you would like a simpler one, just hold your arm out straight, and leave it there for an hour, see if you feel that.
Or try standing on your hands for an hour, preferably in a plank position.

You can tell it exists by observing things fall.
You can feel it exists, by trying to lift or hold up heavy objects, including trying to hold up your entire body weight.
There are mountains of evidence of the existence of gravity.
But you reject it all because gravity destroys your fantasy.


It varies with distance.
It applies a different force to different masses, equivalent to the electromagnetic force applying a different force to different charges, and less fundamental forces like wind applying a different force to different areas.

The only thing "special" about gravity is that it is proportional to mass. That the "gravitational charge" is the inertial mass of an object, such that all objects will accelerate at the same rate in the same gravitational field.
This is equivalent to objects with the same mass to charge ratio accelerating at the same rate.
And this is what lead to Einstein describing it as curved space time.

Where the strength will vary around Earth, due to the different distance from the centre of Earth (even after accounting for the rotation).
It isn't just weaker at the equator.
It is strongest at the poles and weakest at the equator, varying between them, with a strength that is related to latitude.

Just like when you try to lift a heavy object, or if you try riding a bike up a hill.
Or even when you are doing push ups, where as you get tired, you stop being able to fight that resistance and eventually you can't do more.

When it is harder to ride a bike up a hill, we are still ON the Earth, right? Why would your made up force resist us more going up a hill, than on level ground, and offer LESS resistance when going DOWN a hill, than ON level ground, or up a hill?  Is it that your made up force is 'stronger' when we are NEARER the Earth's surface, or 'core'? If so, why do we have no problem going down a side of canyon, which is BELOW the ground? It should be harder, being CLOSER to the ball Earth 'core', and made up force within it, right? 

It's just as hard to ride up the side of a mountain 1300 feet above sea level, as it is to ride up a ridge in the Dead Sea, which is over 1300 feet BELOW sea level, which shows there is NO 'force', which would be STRONGER when CLOSER to the 'core' of your ball Earth, like YOU are claiming here!

It is EQUALLY as hard to do, at both places, because it is due to having more mass and density than the air, at both places, no matter WHERE it is on Earth, or ABOVE the Earth.

When you claim 'gravity' is stronger or weaker at areas of Earth, than elsewhere, you never show ANY evidence for it, no VALID evidence, that we can CONFIRM true or not.

Of course, it's nonsense, and we can PROVE it's nonsense, at any time, with such a test as I've mentioned above. 

On a mountain, 2000 feet above sea level, you claim it would be 2000 feet FURTHER AWAY from the strongest point of 'gravity', than at a point on level ground, AT sea level, and that's why objects on a mountain, when pushed off it, fall to the ground below, or the CLOSEST point to Earth's 'core', where 'gravity' is strongest, within the ball Earth.

So what would you say is the difference in 'altitude', or difference to the Earth's 'core', at the poles, compared to at the 'equator'?

This would be...

"If you stand at sea level on the equator, you are 6378 km from the center of the earth. In contrast, at each pole, you are only 6357 km from the center of the earth"

So let's think about that, now....

This would be a difference of about 31 km to the 'core', or 'center of Earth', from the two points, you claim have more or less 'gravity', more and less acceleration/speed of fall in air, at those two points, and not the same as ELSEWHERE on Earth, where it is much like the CONSTANT rate which is always mentioned, all the time, over and over again, like it were the ONLY rate of fall, and acceleration of objects in air or something!

But you claim it is NOT the only rate of 'gravity', it differs at the 'poles', and at the 'equator'!

That is about a 31 km difference, you claim shows a DIFFERENT rate than measured all the time, everywhere on Earth.

When a 2000 km difference doesn't change the rate, we know this is just another one of your BS stories, and that's ALL it is!

You seriously believe that a various rate of 'gravity', would exist on Earth, over two points with a 31 km variance of distance, to the core?!?  Good one!


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JackBlack

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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #703 on: January 07, 2023, 03:31:41 AM »
When it is harder to ride a bike up a hill, we are still ON the Earth, right? Why would your made up force resist us more going up a hill, than on level ground, and offer LESS resistance when going DOWN a hill, than ON level ground, or up a hill?
Not a made up force, a very real force, doing the exact thing you claim real forces should do, resist things going against them.

Again, gravity is not some magic glue that holds you to the surface. That is your delusional BS, not gravity.

Gravity is about mass.
And that means for Earth that is the entire mass of Earth, not just the tiny bit you are standing on.
So that means if you are going up, you are going away from the vast majority of the mass of Earth, that means you are opposing the force of gravity, and thus it will resist. It will more than if you were to remain level, and if you go with it, such as by going down, then it is very easy to do as you are no longer directly opposing the force.

Why do you continue with this dishonest BS?
Objecting to gravity being, with the blatant lie that it doesn't offer resistance, only to pull this dishonest BS when you are given a clear case of resistance; where now you switch tunes and claim it shouldn't.

Incredibly dishonest of you.

Is it that your made up force is 'stronger' when we are NEARER the Earth's surface, or 'core'?
Not the surface, not the core, the entirety of the mass of Earth. This can be approximated as a point with all the mass at the centre.
But the change in force is negligible, as already explained repeatedly.
What matters is if you are going with it or against it.

If so, why do we have no problem going down a side of canyon, which is BELOW the ground? It should be harder, being CLOSER to the ball Earth 'core', and made up force within it, right?
Why should it be harder going down?
Yet again you spout pure garbage with no logical sense at all.

If you are going down, so you are going with the force, then it should be easier not harder.

It is EQUALLY as hard to do, at both places, because it is due to having more mass and density than the air, at both places, no matter WHERE it is on Earth, or ABOVE the Earth.
And more delusional BS.
It is not EQUAL. It is approximate.
Have you ever bothered doing the math?
Of course not, because that would so easily demonstrate your dishonest BS is just that.
Treating Earth as a perfect sphere, that difference you appeal to, a mere 0.8 km represents 0.01% of the radius of Earth.
I.e. if we take the lower part to be at the radius of Earth, then the upper part is at a distance of 100.01% of the radius of Earth.
As gravity, following an inverse square law, means the change in force should be proportional to the inverse of the square of that ratio.
That means you would expect the force at the higher point to be roughly 99.97% of the strength, or 0.03% weaker.
You are not going to notice that unless you use very precise equipment.
You aren't going to be able to tell by riding a bike.

Additionally, it isn't simply a matter of distance. Inside a valley you have the mass of Earth above you as well.
For example, if Earth was a perfectly uniform, stationary sphere, then the strength of gravity, for a certain distance from the centre, assuming you are on the surface or below the surface, would actually be F=G*rho*(4/3)*pi*r*m, where rho is the density, so when you go down a hole, the strength decreases.

But to really nail down your delusional BS, you are again appealing to density, as if the density of air should matter. But guess what? The density of air varies with altitude, just like its pressure (assuming a constant temperature, the density is proportional to pressure.
The air pressure at sea level is ~101.3 kPa. At 1200 ft it drops to 87.5 kPa.
That is a change to 86%.
So if air density was going to make things fall you should expect a significant difference.
The difference should be far more significant than a change due to gravity.

When you claim 'gravity' is stronger or weaker at areas of Earth, than elsewhere, you never show ANY evidence for it, no VALID evidence, that we can CONFIRM true or not.
You have made it clear that you are unwilling to accept any evidence that demonstrates you are wrong, so there is absolutely no point in me providing you with any evidence.

Regardless, the burden is not on me to provide it. YOU are the one claiming gravity is exactly the same everywhere. So the burden is on YOU to prove that it is the same, rather than just continually asserting the same delusional BS.

Of course, it's nonsense, and we can PROVE it's nonsense, at any time, with such a test as I've mentioned above.
Except you can't. You come up with an entirely useless test and don't even bother checking if it would have enough precision to be able to tell.
Conversely, plenty of people have accurately measured variations in gravity and found it does vary.

On a mountain, 2000 feet above sea level, you claim it would be 2000 feet FURTHER AWAY from the strongest point of 'gravity', than at a point on level ground, AT sea level, and that's why objects on a mountain, when pushed off it, fall to the ground below, or the CLOSEST point to Earth's 'core', where 'gravity' is strongest, within the ball Earth.
No. Once more, that is your delusional BS, not mine.

It doesn't really matter where it is strongest.
You could have a much more complicated type of gravity where it is stronger higher up.
What matters is the directionality.
Gravity is an attractive force, so it is attracted towards Earth.
Even on a hypothetical infinite plane, where the strength of gravity would not vary with altitude at all, things would still fall down as it is an attractive force.

So what would you say is the difference in 'altitude', or difference to the Earth's 'core', at the poles, compared to at the 'equator'?
This would be...
Why bother asking a question if you are just going to provide the answer?
And in doing so utterly fail at basic math.
6378-6356 = 21, not 31.

This would be a difference of about 31 km to the 'core', or 'center of Earth', from the two points, you claim have more or less 'gravity', more and less acceleration/speed of fall in air, at those two points, and not the same as ELSEWHERE on Earth, where it is much like the CONSTANT rate which is always mentioned, all the time, over and over again, like it were the ONLY rate of fall, and acceleration of objects in air or something!
Again, it isn't just a magical special location.
The acceleration due to gravity varies across Earth.
It is not constant.
Repeating the same blatant lie, especially with no evidence at all, does not help you.

When a 2000 km difference doesn't change the rate, we know this is just another one of your BS stories, and that's ALL it is!
What 2000 km difference?
You were appealing to a change in height of less than 1 km.
Do you know just how 2000 km compares to 21 km and how each of those compare to 2600 ft (your 2 lots of 1300 feet)?

When you are just making up numbers like this, numbers you have had no way of measuring, and the only way you ever could is by accepting space is real and that we have objects in space to perform such a measurement, it shows you are spouting dishonest BS you can to try and prop up your failed fantasy.

Edit: fixed a typo (26000 ft vs 2600 ft)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2023, 02:22:01 PM by JackBlack »

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JackBlack

  • 26157
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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #704 on: January 07, 2023, 03:33:13 AM »
You seriously believe that a various rate of 'gravity', would exist on Earth, over two points with a 31 km variance of distance, to the core?!?  Good one!
And again you show just how dishonest you are, by directly contradicting yourself.

You suggest a less than 1 km difference (2600 ft, from 1300 ft above and below) should show a dramatic change such that you can feel it when you ride a bike up a hill; but then reject the idea of a 21 km difference, something ~26 times as large, magically shouldn't?
Just how stupid do you think everyone is?
Are you hoping they wont notice you switching units?
Are you hoping they will foolishly think 2600 ft is 2000 km, or think that 21 km is 21 ft?

21 km is  ~0.33% of the radius of Earth.
But instead of using that, why not just use the numbers directly.
The equatorial radius is 100.35% of the polar radius.
That gives a ratio of the acceleration as 99.3% or a difference of 0.7%. That is over an order of magnitude larger than the difference expected for your prior example.

But it isn't that simple as Earth isn't a perfect sphere.

But that is not the only cause. Remember, Earth spins, and that also has an affect, reaching a peak of roughly 0.34% of g at the equator.

But even with that difference, you still aren't going to simply feel it. Instead you need to use tools to measure it. But for this, a simple set of accurate scales, with a known mass which wont vary with things like humidity can easily be used.

All this is demonstrating is just how dishonest you are, how you are happy to blatantly lie and directly contradict yourself all to pretend that your fantasy is true and the RE model is wrong.

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turbonium2

  • 3753
  • +36/-30
Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #705 on: January 07, 2023, 06:18:44 AM »
Not the surface, not the core, the entirety of the mass of Earth. This can be approximated as a point with all the mass at the centre.
But the change in force is negligible, as already explained repeatedly.
What matters is if you are going with it or against it.

It doesn't really matter where it is strongest.
You could have a much more complicated type of gravity where it is stronger higher up.
What matters is the directionality.
Gravity is an attractive force, so it is attracted towards Earth.
Even on a hypothetical infinite plane, where the strength of gravity would not vary with altitude at all, things would still fall down as it is an attractive force.

The acceleration due to gravity varies across Earth.
It is not constant.
Repeating the same blatant lie, especially with no evidence at all, does not help you.

What 2000 km difference?
You were appealing to a change in height of less than 1 km.
Do you know just how 2000 km compares to 21 km and how each of those compare to 26000 ft (your 2 lots of 1300 feet)?

You can't make up an excuse for it, but thanks for trying to weasel out of it, though!

YOU said it was NOT a constant, and claimed it differed at the poles and equator, not mentioning it would be a fraction of the distance, compared to a mountain and areas lower than sea level, as I said.

The Dead Sea is below sea level, and there is NO ground above it, like with a canyon, so there goes that excuse now.  Only air is above the Dead Sea, so what's your next BS excuse for that, I'm sure you'll spew something out, I can't wait to hear it! 

You're sort of a instant excuse machine, spewing out anything you can think of, it's quite interesting to watch it all unfold in real time.

Are you a NASA toady? You should be, if not!

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Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • +2/-2
  • I am car!
Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #706 on: January 07, 2023, 06:36:52 AM »
Not the surface, not the core, the entirety of the mass of Earth. This can be approximated as a point with all the mass at the centre.
But the change in force is negligible, as already explained repeatedly.
What matters is if you are going with it or against it.

It doesn't really matter where it is strongest.
You could have a much more complicated type of gravity where it is stronger higher up.
What matters is the directionality.
Gravity is an attractive force, so it is attracted towards Earth.
Even on a hypothetical infinite plane, where the strength of gravity would not vary with altitude at all, things would still fall down as it is an attractive force.

The acceleration due to gravity varies across Earth.
It is not constant.
Repeating the same blatant lie, especially with no evidence at all, does not help you.

What 2000 km difference?
You were appealing to a change in height of less than 1 km.
Do you know just how 2000 km compares to 21 km and how each of those compare to 26000 ft (your 2 lots of 1300 feet)?

You can't make up an excuse for it, but thanks for trying to weasel out of it, though!

YOU said it was NOT a constant, and claimed it differed at the poles and equator, not mentioning it would be a fraction of the distance, compared to a mountain and areas lower than sea level, as I said.

The Dead Sea is below sea level, and there is NO ground above it, like with a canyon, so there goes that excuse now.  Only air is above the Dead Sea, so what's your next BS excuse for that, I'm sure you'll spew something out, I can't wait to hear it! 

You're sort of a instant excuse machine, spewing out anything you can think of, it's quite interesting to watch it all unfold in real time.

Are you a NASA toady? You should be, if not!

What exactly is your dead sea/canyon thing? Can you explain it in maybe a sentence or two without all the hyperbole?

And no, Jack isn't a NASA toady he's an international, global space toady like me...




I guess pretty much everyone is a space toady, not just NASA.

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JackBlack

  • 26157
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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #707 on: January 07, 2023, 02:21:16 PM »
You can't make up an excuse for it, but thanks for trying to weasel out of it, though!
I'm not making up an excuse. I am explaining why you are wrong.
I am explaining why you are contradicting yourself.
And all you seem to be able to do is repeat the same lies.

YOU said it was NOT a constant, and claimed it differed at the poles and equator, not mentioning it would be a fraction of the distance, compared to a mountain and areas lower than sea level, as I said.
So you are really sticking to this blatant lie?

A difference of 2000 ft, less than 1 km, is a fraction of the 21 km change in distance between the poles and the equator.

Are you truly so dishonest or stupid that you will continue to pretend that 21 km is a fraction of 2000 ft (i.e. 0.6096 km)?
Do you really expect anyone to buy that dishonest BS of yours?

Just ignoring that, and repeating the same dishonest BS just shows you low you are willing to stoop to pretend there is a problem with the RE.

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Themightykabool

  • 13097
  • +58/-79
Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #708 on: January 08, 2023, 06:37:51 AM »
Thsi fr9m the same guy who says his homedepot level stays level across miles and miles.

Whats the change of angle fo each lengrh of sgement?

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ecco

  • 188
  • +0/-0
Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #709 on: January 08, 2023, 09:44:31 AM »
I applied for a job at NASA.  They put me into a room with several interrogators.  They kept asking why I believed the earth was flat?  When I told them I was a globeist, they asked why I spent time on a FE forum.  Be careful.  BB is watching.

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Themightykabool

  • 13097
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Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #710 on: January 08, 2023, 10:32:25 AM »
They wer able to track your internet but not read and contextualize your actual posts?

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ecco

  • 188
  • +0/-0
Re: My impossible challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #711 on: January 08, 2023, 06:45:40 PM »

Well, it is those gullible fools at NASA.  No one ever said they were bright.  Or, maybe they were just too busy making the next great CGI epic about women on Mars.

 ;)