Jwst launches in less than 3 hours

Quote from: Heiwa on March 07, 2022, 06:23:52 AM

I can see plenty stars from my window...

But can you study them in any meaningful way?

Just tell me the details/diameter of the L2 orbit around the Sun and at what speed it takes place. Then provide same details of the JWST orbit around L2, i.e. diameter and velocity, so I know where JWST is at any time. Then inform the solar wind/photon forces applied on the JWST and how the JWST balances them with its own rocket engines to remain in orbit around L2 ... and we can discuss. Add also details how the JWST managed to leave its original orbit around Earth and started to orbit L2 after some magic docking.
It seems the NASA/ESA experts have problems with such simple details.

Listen to some NASA clowns !
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/webb/main/index.html
https://www.nasa.gov/mediacast/gravity-assist-using-webb-to-trace-galactic-histories-with-aaron-yung
… we’re waiting for the JWST images …
…  so that's why we want to go back in time and look at these early galaxies …
…  instead of orbiting Earth like Hubble does, Webb is at an orbit 1 million miles away from us, and to keep it cool from the Sun's radiation, Webb is also equipped with a sunshield that is the size of a tennis court  …
… a lot of people know a lot about the Hubble Space Telescope. And now we have the JWST telescope almost operational …
… JWST was then successfully inserted into his target orbits the second Lagrangian point, and would go through a six month long commissioning process …
… the first gravity assist that changed my life trajectory happened in my undergrad …
… having direct access to the people that work closely with JWST, and the Roman Space Telescope is really setting me up to continue …
… we continue our journey to look under the hood at NASA and see how we do what we do …

Quote from: markjo on March 07, 2022, 02:14:51 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 07, 2022, 06:23:52 AM

I can see plenty stars from my window...

But can you study them in any meaningful way?

Just tell me the details/diameter of the L2 orbit around the Sun and at what speed it takes place. Then provide same details of the JWST orbit around L2, i.e. diameter and velocity, so I know where JWST is at any time. Then inform the solar wind/photon forces applied on the JWST and how the JWST balances them with its own rocket engines to remain in orbit around L2 ... and we can discuss. Add also details how the JWST managed to leave its original orbit around Earth and started to orbit L2 after some magic docking.
It seems the NASA/ESA experts have problems with such simple details.

You have access to the internet, right? Not hard to find (More info on the page linked):

JWST Orbit

Rationale for the orbit dimensions
JWST will be placed in an orbit about the Sun-Earth L2 Lagrange point located about 1.5 million km from Earth, which is four times the distance between the Earth and the Moon.

It is incorrect to say that JWST "will be at L2." Rather, JWST will orbit around L2.

The distance of JWST from the L2 point varies between 250,000 to 832,000 km, as shown in Figure 1. The period of the orbit is about 6 months. The maximum excursion above or below the ecliptic plane is 520,000 km. The maximum distance from the Earth is 1.8 million km, and the maximum Earth-Sun angle is <33°.

L2 is a saddle point in the gravitational potential of the Solar System. Because saddle points are not stable, JWST will need to regularly fire onboard thrusters to maintain its orbit around L2. These station-keeping maneuvers will be performed every 21 days.

To maintain solar power, the orbit is designed such that JWST is never in the shadow of the Earth or the Moon during the mission.



Here's where it is:
WHERE IS WEBB?

Here are all of the JWST solar radiation calculations and such - 130 pages worth, have fun:
SOLAR RADIATION PRESSURE EFFECTS ON THE ORBITAL MOTION AT SEL2 FOR THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:08:39 AM

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

No. The NASA experts just invent more nonsense like an RLP coordinate system. What a joke.

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 10:49:34 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:08:39 AM

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

No. The NASA experts just invent more nonsense like an RLP coordinate system. What a joke.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:18:49 PM

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 10:49:34 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:08:39 AM

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

No. The NASA experts just invent more nonsense like an RLP coordinate system. What a joke.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

They are just nonsense! An academic joke. Many students at universities present similar things as research of some kind to fool their professors.

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 05:36:18 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:18:49 PM

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 10:49:34 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:08:39 AM

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

No. The NASA experts just invent more nonsense like an RLP coordinate system. What a joke.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

They are just nonsense! An academic joke. Many students at universities present similar things as research of some kind to fool their professors.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 06:18:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 05:36:18 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:18:49 PM

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 10:49:34 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:08:39 AM

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

No. The NASA experts just invent more nonsense like an RLP coordinate system. What a joke.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

They are just nonsense! An academic joke. Many students at universities present similar things as research of some kind to fool their professors.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

They are nonsense! Academic jokes. Many students at universities present similar things as research of some kind to fool their professors.

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 07:29:58 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 06:18:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 05:36:18 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:18:49 PM

Quote from: Stash on March 08, 2022, 10:49:34 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 08, 2022, 02:08:39 AM

So we all agree that Earth orbits the Sun (or vice versa).
But then? JWST took off from and orbited Earth, until it arrived in the vicinity of L2 that orbits the Sun. Then JWST started to orbit L2 instead.
Questions remain (1) how JWST managed to arrive in the vicinity of L2 after a trip in space and then (2) got out of orbiting Earth to start orbiting L2 instead and (3) what is a Rotating Libration Point (RLP)?
I think orbits in space are just possible around objects with a mass like the Sun and Earth, but L2 has no mass. How can JWST orbit around L2? I have never heard of RLP! I only know what an RLP coordinate system is (https://help.agi.com/stk/11.0.1/Content/gator/eq-rlp.htm), but where is the rotating libration point? Is it L2? How can a point rotate? And where is L2 relative this RLP unless it is the same?

All of your questions have been answered.

No. The NASA experts just invent more nonsense like an RLP coordinate system. What a joke.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

They are just nonsense! An academic joke. Many students at universities present similar things as research of some kind to fool their professors.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

They are nonsense! Academic jokes. Many students at universities present similar things as research of some kind to fool their professors.

What's wrong with the equations? You must know in order to claim it's a joke. Otherwise it's just your ignorance on display.

On a clear and dark night sky (no light pollution) an observer with good eyesight might see around 2000 stars. That's an entire field of view. Out of a window, you might be limited to a few dozen stars.

Telescopes in space aren't affected by daylight or weather events. They also have an entire field of view and they can see not just a few thousand stars limited to a small area around Earth, but almost every star in our galaxy and many galaxies beyond our own. And exo planets. And even the composition of other stars and planets. And nebulae and other anomalies and looking back to a time just after the birth of the universe.

Heiwa might be content with the few dozen he sees out his window and I'm sure Heiwa and his limited intelligence gets a real kick every time he sees it but it there is so much more to see and learn.

You could get the worlds brightest minds and teachers and try to explain science and the universe to a budgerigar. It still wont learn anything because its mind is too small. Heiwa is the same. No matter how much information you tell him it will never sink in. His mind is just too small

I have a 4-10 for budgerigars.

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2022, 11:22:16 PM

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

So I can see a billion light years away from my window and JWST can see further away, e.g. 14 billion light years away. According experts the Universe didn't exist then so ... what will JWST see?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2022, 11:22:16 PM

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

So we can see a billion light years away from my window, and the JWST can see further, e.g. 14 billion light years away, i.e. before the Universe started. I really wonder what JWST will see? Nothing?

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 09, 2022, 12:14:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2022, 11:22:16 PM

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

So we can see a billion light years away from my window, and the JWST can see further, e.g. 14 billion light years away, i.e. before the Universe started. I really wonder what JWST will see? Nothing?

No. You dont see a billion light years distance from your window and the JWST wont see 'before the universe started'. Everything you say is wrong.

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 03:24:44 AM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 09, 2022, 12:14:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2022, 11:22:16 PM

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

So we can see a billion light years away from my window, and the JWST can see further, e.g. 14 billion light years away, i.e. before the Universe started. I really wonder what JWST will see? Nothing?

No. You dont see a billion light years distance from your window and the JWST wont see 'before the universe started'. Everything you say is wrong.

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window. They are small and looks like stars but they are galaxies and some are 1 billion years old, I am told. When I look further, I see other galaxies that are 20 billion years old, but then some experts like you get upset, and say I cannot see them, as they didn't exist then. Well, come around and look from my window. Everything I see is right in front of me. You talk a lot of nonsense.

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 09, 2022, 03:27:55 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 03:24:44 AM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 09, 2022, 12:14:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2022, 11:22:16 PM

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

So we can see a billion light years away from my window, and the JWST can see further, e.g. 14 billion light years away, i.e. before the Universe started. I really wonder what JWST will see? Nothing?

No. You dont see a billion light years distance from your window and the JWST wont see 'before the universe started'. Everything you say is wrong.

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window. They are small and looks like stars but they are galaxies and some are 1 billion years old, I am told. When I look further, I see other galaxies that are 20 billion years old, but then some experts like you get upset, and say I cannot see them, as they didn't exist then. Well, come around and look from my window. Everything I see is right in front of me. You talk a lot of nonsense.

You're trolling would be next level if it wasn't so obvious and you weren't so stupid....

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window. They are small and looks like stars but they are galaxies and some are 1 billion years old, I am told.

But, do you believe it?

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 04:57:25 AM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 09, 2022, 03:27:55 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 03:24:44 AM

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on March 09, 2022, 12:14:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2022, 11:22:16 PM

A telescope simply magnifies. It does not see farther into the distance, it just magnifies what is in that distance. It certainly does not see into the past.

Your basic home telescope magnifies. The ones in space are a little more advanced with sensors that see much more of the EM spectrum

Don't forget increased resolution that our eyes are pretty shit with.

No one claims time travel. But the speed of light in a vacuum is known. When we see a galaxy a billion light years away, we see it as it was a billion years ago. It is looking in the past. Hell, even looking at your feet is looking in the past, albiet not very long in the past 

So we can see a billion light years away from my window, and the JWST can see further, e.g. 14 billion light years away, i.e. before the Universe started. I really wonder what JWST will see? Nothing?

No. You dont see a billion light years distance from your window and the JWST wont see 'before the universe started'. Everything you say is wrong.

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window. They are small and looks like stars but they are galaxies and some are 1 billion years old, I am told. When I look further, I see other galaxies that are 20 billion years old, but then some experts like you get upset, and say I cannot see them, as they didn't exist then. Well, come around and look from my window. Everything I see is right in front of me. You talk a lot of nonsense.

You're trolling would be next level if it wasn't so obvious and you weren't so stupid....

Why would I troll about the NASA JWST nonsense? I describe it at my website http://heiwaco.com since >20 years. And people suggest that I am stupid.

 And people suggest that I am stupid.

Ummm, suggest?

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 06:46:27 AM

 And people suggest that I am stupid.

Ummm, suggest?

All ample anonymous antagonists, amen

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 09, 2022, 06:58:45 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 06:46:27 AM

 And people suggest that I am stupid.

Ummm, suggest?

All ample anonymous antagonists, amen

I think you're awesome.

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 07:17:30 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 09, 2022, 06:58:45 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 06:46:27 AM

 And people suggest that I am stupid.

Ummm, suggest?

All ample anonymous antagonists, amen

I think you're awesome.

Thanks, I know I am.

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window.

Name 5 galaxies that you can see from your window.

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 04:57:25 AM

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window.

Name 5 galaxies that you can see from your window.

Thanks for asking. I can see the Andromeda galaxy, the Whirlpool galaxy, the Triangulum galaxy, the Sombrero galaxy and the M104 galaxy.

Quote from: markjo on March 09, 2022, 05:37:03 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 04:57:25 AM

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window.

Name 5 galaxies that you can see from your window.

Thanks for asking. I can see the Andromeda galaxy, the Whirlpool galaxy, the Triangulum galaxy, the Sombrero galaxy and the M104 galaxy.

How big is your telescope?

Heiwa couldn't point out the Milky Way.

Quote from: markjo on March 09, 2022, 05:37:03 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on March 09, 2022, 04:57:25 AM

Hm, I see plenty galaxies from my window.

Name 5 galaxies that you can see from your window.

Thanks for asking. I can see the Andromeda galaxy, the Whirlpool galaxy, the Triangulum galaxy, the Sombrero galaxy and the M104 galaxy.

The Triangulum galaxy, also known as Messier 33, is sometimes said to be the farthest object visible with the unaided eye. But you'll need perfect dark sky conditions – and good eyesight – to see it. Even with binoculars and a telescope, this pinwheel-shaped spiral galaxy is not easy to spot...It’s about 2.7 million light-years away.

As well, the Whirpool Galaxy is 31 million light-years away from Earth.

How can you see the Sombrero galaxy from your window when it's 31.1 million light-years? And btw, M104 is the Sombrero galaxy.

Do you have a pictures of these galaxies?