Jwst launches in less than 3 hours

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 01:56:21 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 12:06:32 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 29, 2022, 11:51:41 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 29, 2022, 09:54:40 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 29, 2022, 06:49:33 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 29, 2022, 06:40:17 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 29, 2022, 05:04:54 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 29, 2022, 12:20:50 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 29, 2022, 09:43:14 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 29, 2022, 08:29:09 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 28, 2022, 11:00:48 PM

Can anyone explain to me why the JWST spacecraft needs a "trim flap" to stay on course observing the beginning of the Universe, thanks.

. . . . . to stay on course

Of course - certainly - but a trim flap!?!?

All is explained and calculated in here. Time for you to do some actual learning:

[1] S. Yoon, "Orbit Determinaton for the James Webb Space Telescope," in 24th International Symposium on Space Flight Dynamics, Laurel MD, 2014.
[2] NASA, "James Webb Space Telescope," NASA, [Online]. Available: jwst.nasa.gov. [Accessed 10 Mar 2014].
[3] J. Mather, "The James Webb Space Telescope and Future IR Space Telescopes," in Space 2004 Conference and Exhibit, San Diego CA, 2004.
[4] D. Dunham and R. Farquhar, "Libration Point Missions, 1978-2002," in 7th International Conference on Libration Point Orbits and Their Applications, Parador d'Aiguablava, Girona, Spain, 2002.
[5] J. Danby, Fundamentals of Celestial Mechanics, Richmond VA: Willmann-Bell, 1998.
[6] R. Henry, W. Kinzel and M. Jordan, "JWST Scheduling with SODRM 2012, Preesnted to the JWST AWG," Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore MD, 2014.
[7] W. Kinzel, "JWST Angular Momentum Management with Pass 1 and 2 Torque Tables," Space Telescopt Science Institute, Baltimore MD, 2007.
[8] Space Telescope Science Institute, "James Webb Space Telescope Field-of-Regard and Sky Coverage," 2014. [Online]. Available: http://www.stsci.edu/jwst/overview/design/field-of-regard. [Accessed 20 March 2014].
[9] C. Roberts, "Long Term Missions at the Sun-Earth Libration Point L1: ACE, SOHO and WIND," in AAS Astrodynamics Specialist Conference, 2011.
[10] K. Howell and H. Pernicka, "Stationkeeping Method for Libration Point Trajectories," J. Guidance, Control and Dynamics, vol. 16, no. 1, pp. 151-159, 1993. 19
[11] T. Pavlak and K. Howell, "Strategy for Optimal, Long-Term Stationkeeping of Libration Point Orbits in the Earth-Moon System," in AIAA/AAS Astrodynamics Specialist Conference, Minneapolis MN, 2012.
[12] D. Folta, T. Pavlak, A. Haapala and K. Howell, "Earth-Moon Libration Point Stationkeeping: Theory, Modeling and Operations," in 1st IAA/AAS Conference on the Dynamics and Control of Space Systems, Porto, Portugal, 2012.
[13] M. Beckman and A. Delion, "James Webb Telescope Stationkeeping Analysis," in AGI User's Conference, 2003.
[14] L. Janes and M. Beckman, "Optimizing Stationkeeping Maneuvers for James Webb Space Telescope," in NASA Goddard Flight Mechanics Symposium, 2006.
[15] M. Hechler and J. Cobos, "Herschel, Planck and GAIA Orbit Design," in 7th International Conference on Libration Point Orbits and Their Applications, Parador d'Aiguablava, Girona, Spain, 2002.
[16] C. Schiff, "James Webb Space Telescope Mission Critical Design Review [Powerpoint charts]," 2006.
[17] D. Gidanian, "JWST Solar Torque Modeling," Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems, Redondo Beach CA, 2008.
[18] D. Dichmann, C. Alberding and K. Richon, "JWST Stationkeeping Analysis: Monte Carlo Simulation Results," in JWST Analysis Working Group, Apr 2013, 2013.
[19] T. Johnson and V. Coppola, "Solar Radiation Pressue Plugins," Analytical Graphics Inc., 2010.
[20] D. Folta, Interviewee, Personal communication on MAVEN mission. [Interview]. Mar 2013.
[21] C. Schiff and E. Dove, "Monte Carlo Simulatons of the Formation Flying Dynamics for the Magnetospheric Multiscale (MMS) Mission," in TBD, TBD, TBD.
[22] D. Dichmann, C. Alberding and K. Richon, "JWST Stationkeeping Analysis: Monte Carlo Simulation Results," in JWST Spacecraft Critical Design Review, 2014.
[23] K. Gordon, "James Webb Space Telescope Mission Science and Operations Center: Science Operations Design Reference Mission Revision C," Space Telescope Science Institute, 2012.
[24] M. Ziebart, "High Precision Analytical Solar Radiaton Pressure Modelling for GNSS Spacecraft," Ph.D. Dissertation, University of East London, London, 2001. 20 Appendix. Solar Pressure and Atmospheric Drag (SPAD) Modeling for JWST The SPAD tool was developed at NASA Goddard to compute SRP and

But the trim flap doesn't solve the the momentum problem.

Start reading. You might actually learn something for a change.

OK - I started with [8] and it had been retracted. Probably usual garbage.

How do you know it was “retracted”?  It’s just not there. It’s from a course given at the institute 8 years ago.

In any case, 1 down, 23 more to go. Let us know when you’ve completed your reading.

You asked me to have a look of your evidence that a a trim/momentum flap is required to steer a space craft and there was none. Pls copy [14] L. Janes know and M. Beckman, "Optimizing Stationkeeping Maneuvers for James Webb Space Telescope," in NASA Goddard Flight Mechanics Symposium, 2006, about a trim/momentum flap a trim/momentum flap for station keeping. I know the location of the L2 point but not its speed through the Universe but I am curious to find out how a trim flap will keep me in location, when I am blown away by a solar wind of unknown force.

Keep reading.

Have you sent [14] so I can read it?

You’ve got 23 papers/articles/chapters/books to go through, so you best get busy and do some learning.

It is just a list. I tried #5 and it didn't exist. Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy. So far I am told that the Sun creates a solar wind sweeping away things in space like the JWST from the Sun and that a trim flap can stop it. What is really a trim flap?

 Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy.

It waves around and wiggles back and forth.

...Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy. So far I am told that the Sun creates a solar wind sweeping away things in space like the JWST from the Sun and that a trim flap can stop it. What is really a trim flap?

The shape of the solar shield, and position of the telescope equipment with respect to the shield are asymmetric.  This asymmetry creates a torque on the satellite as result of solar pressure.  As the satellite is pointed towards whatever the telescope is observing the torque imparted upon it changes.  The flap counters the force if solar radiation to reduce the torque, and prevent unintentional rotation of the satellite.

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:19:14 AM

...Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy. So far I am told that the Sun creates a solar wind sweeping away things in space like the JWST from the Sun and that a trim flap can stop it. What is really a trim flap?

The shape of the solar shield, and position of the telescope equipment with respect to the shield are asymmetric.  This asymmetry creates a torque on the satellite as result of solar pressure.  As the satellite is pointed towards whatever the telescope is observing the torque imparted upon it changes.  The flap counters the force if solar radiation to reduce the torque, and prevent unintentional rotation of the satellite.

And how does the trim flap do it? The solar wind applies a force/torque on the JWST so it starts to move and rotate, and the trim flap applies a counter force/torque so it remains immobile and not rotating. I don't believe it. It is much simpler to observe the Universe from my window without a trim flap. I wonder why NASA cannot provide more details of the trim flap and its manufacturer and cost. National security reasons.

Maybe because they have more important things to do than explain shit to fucking morons who wish to disbelieve anything they say anyway?

...orbit for the desired 10.5-year mission lifetime.

It's actually expected to last upwards of 20 years now, which I'm willing to bet puts it still active at a time when you won't be observing anything the universe has to show. And it's a much more reliable narrator.

Quote from: Heiwa on January 28, 2022, 10:43:53 PM

...orbit for the desired 10.5-year mission lifetime.

It's actually expected to last upwards of 20 years now, which I'm willing to bet puts it still active at a time when you won't be observing anything the universe has to show. And it's a much more reliable narrator.

I just look out of my window and am happy with it. But as a shipbuilder I am curious how this trim flap works.

Quote from: boydster on January 30, 2022, 09:04:53 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 28, 2022, 10:43:53 PM

...orbit for the desired 10.5-year mission lifetime.

It's actually expected to last upwards of 20 years now, which I'm willing to bet puts it still active at a time when you won't be observing anything the universe has to show. And it's a much more reliable narrator.

I just look out of my window and am happy with it. But as a shipbuilder I am curious how this trim flap works.

But not curious enough to do real research involving a library and scholarly articles right? Just enough to claim you sent emails and occasionally click a link provided to you.

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 09:13:47 AM

Quote from: boydster on January 30, 2022, 09:04:53 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 28, 2022, 10:43:53 PM

...orbit for the desired 10.5-year mission lifetime.

It's actually expected to last upwards of 20 years now, which I'm willing to bet puts it still active at a time when you won't be observing anything the universe has to show. And it's a much more reliable narrator.

I just look out of my window and am happy with it. But as a shipbuilder I am curious how this trim flap works.

But not curious enough to do real research involving a library and scholarly articles right? Just enough to claim you sent emails and occasionally click a link provided to you.

Pls, I do real research since 1968. I think it is fun. There are plenty people producing fake science, etc. I like telling other people about them. It is fun.

Quote from: frenat on January 30, 2022, 09:15:38 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 09:13:47 AM

Quote from: boydster on January 30, 2022, 09:04:53 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 28, 2022, 10:43:53 PM

...orbit for the desired 10.5-year mission lifetime.

It's actually expected to last upwards of 20 years now, which I'm willing to bet puts it still active at a time when you won't be observing anything the universe has to show. And it's a much more reliable narrator.

I just look out of my window and am happy with it. But as a shipbuilder I am curious how this trim flap works.

But not curious enough to do real research involving a library and scholarly articles right? Just enough to claim you sent emails and occasionally click a link provided to you.

Pls, I do real research since 1968. I think it is fun. There are plenty people producing fake science, etc. I like telling other people about them. It is fun.

Sure you do. /s yet you've shown multiple times that you can't even be bothered to read links that you get provided here. If you did actual research then you wouldn't be here. Just more LIES from Heiwa.

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 02:24:34 AM

You’ve got 23 papers/articles/chapters/books to go through, so you best get busy and do some learning.

It is just a list. I tried #5 and it didn't exist. Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy. So far I am told that the Sun creates a solar wind sweeping away things in space like the JWST from the Sun and that a trim flap can stop it. What is really a trim flap?

It more than certainly exists. You're terrible at research. Number #5 exists and it's on its 2nd addition:

Fundamentals of Celestial Mechanics, 2nd Revised & Enlarged Edition


It took me all of .03 seconds to find the source. How is it that you couldn't find it? Could you be more lazy? Now get to reading and learning.

Quote from: Calen on January 30, 2022, 04:56:57 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:19:14 AM

...Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy. So far I am told that the Sun creates a solar wind sweeping away things in space like the JWST from the Sun and that a trim flap can stop it. What is really a trim flap?

The shape of the solar shield, and position of the telescope equipment with respect to the shield are asymmetric.  This asymmetry creates a torque on the satellite as result of solar pressure.  As the satellite is pointed towards whatever the telescope is observing the torque imparted upon it changes.  The flap counters the force if solar radiation to reduce the torque, and prevent unintentional rotation of the satellite.

And how does the trim flap do it?

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 05:57:58 AM

Quote from: Calen on January 30, 2022, 04:56:57 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:19:14 AM

...Just explain how a trim flap works on the JWST spacecraft and I will be happy. So far I am told that the Sun creates a solar wind sweeping away things in space like the JWST from the Sun and that a trim flap can stop it. What is really a trim flap?

The shape of the solar shield, and position of the telescope equipment with respect to the shield are asymmetric.  This asymmetry creates a torque on the satellite as result of solar pressure.  As the satellite is pointed towards whatever the telescope is observing the torque imparted upon it changes.  The flap counters the force if solar radiation to reduce the torque, and prevent unintentional rotation of the satellite.

And how does the trim flap do it?

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Hm. But there is no air in space. Only vacuum. I have a feeling someone added the trim flap as a joke. The JWST is a joke!

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 04:20:02 PM

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Hm. But there is no air in space. Only vacuum.

And pressure from the sun's photons.  Or do you believe that solar sails are only fiction too?

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 04:20:02 PM

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Hm. But there is no air in space. Only vacuum.

And pressure from the sun's photons.  Or do you believe that solar sails are only fiction too?

Photons have no mass and move around at the speed of light and do not apply pressure on anything. When a photon arrives in my eye it simply disappears after I have seen it. Same when it hits my skin. I feel it and after that it is no more there. No trim flap can stop it.

Quote from: Stash on January 27, 2022, 12:53:19 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 27, 2022, 09:48:47 AM

According to https://webb.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html?units=metric it is freezing cold at the L2 point, except when you are exposed to the Sun far away, which you are not at the L2 point, which is in the shade of the Earth. So why do you need to cool down anything. Maybe ESA/NASA means heating up?  The Universe is a pretty cold place.

How many times are you going to get this wrong?

It seems the Moon orbits the Earth and the Earth orbits the Sun and the JWST flies around in space in an impossible trajectory orbiting nothing.
It seems we agree that the Moon doesn't orbit the Sun (but the Earth). I can see that from my window.

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Heiwa is a simpleton. And yet that explanation would still go right over his head

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 05:32:23 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 04:20:02 PM

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Hm. But there is no air in space. Only vacuum.

And pressure from the sun's photons.  Or do you believe that solar sails are only fiction too?

Photons have no mass and move around at the speed of light and do not apply pressure on anything. When a photon arrives in my eye it simply disappears after I have seen it. Same when it hits my skin. I feel it and after that it is no more there. No trim flap can stop it.

Wow, you know next to nothing.

Radiation pressure

Radiation pressure is the mechanical pressure exerted upon any surface due to the exchange of momentum between the object and the electromagnetic field. This includes the momentum of light or electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength that is absorbed, reflected, or otherwise emitted (e.g. black-body radiation) by matter on any scale (from macroscopic objects to dust particles to gas molecules).[1][2][3] The associated force is called the radiation pressure force, or sometimes just the force of light.



The forces generated by radiation pressure are generally too small to be noticed under everyday circumstances; however, they are important in some physical processes and technologies. This particularly includes objects in outer space, where it is usually the main force acting on objects besides gravity, and where the net effect of a tiny force may have a large cumulative effect over long periods of time. For example, had the effects of the Sun's radiation pressure on the spacecraft of the Viking program been ignored, the spacecraft would have missed Mars' orbit by about 15,000 km (9,300 mi).[4]

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 09:45:54 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 05:32:23 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 04:20:02 PM

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Hm. But there is no air in space. Only vacuum.

And pressure from the sun's photons.  Or do you believe that solar sails are only fiction too?

Photons have no mass and move around at the speed of light and do not apply pressure on anything. When a photon arrives in my eye it simply disappears after I have seen it. Same when it hits my skin. I feel it and after that it is no more there. No trim flap can stop it.

Wow, you know next to nothing.

Radiation pressure

Radiation pressure is the mechanical pressure exerted upon any surface due to the exchange of momentum between the object and the electromagnetic field. This includes the momentum of light or electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength that is absorbed, reflected, or otherwise emitted (e.g. black-body radiation) by matter on any scale (from macroscopic objects to dust particles to gas molecules).[1][2][3] The associated force is called the radiation pressure force, or sometimes just the force of light.



The forces generated by radiation pressure are generally too small to be noticed under everyday circumstances; however, they are important in some physical processes and technologies. This particularly includes objects in outer space, where it is usually the main force acting on objects besides gravity, and where the net effect of a tiny force may have a large cumulative effect over long periods of time. For example, had the effects of the Sun's radiation pressure on the spacecraft of the Viking program been ignored, the spacecraft would have missed Mars' orbit by about 15,000 km (9,300 mi).[4]

I tested your ideas about light moving things. I switched on the light in front of a mirror and ... the mirror didn't move. Same thing when the Sun rises outside my window every morning. Plenty light arrives at the speed of light but nothing moves.

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:19:54 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 09:45:54 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 05:32:23 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: markjo on January 30, 2022, 04:20:02 PM

Pretty much the same way that a trim flap works on a sail boat or a trim tab on an airplane,

Hm. But there is no air in space. Only vacuum.

And pressure from the sun's photons.  Or do you believe that solar sails are only fiction too?

Photons have no mass and move around at the speed of light and do not apply pressure on anything. When a photon arrives in my eye it simply disappears after I have seen it. Same when it hits my skin. I feel it and after that it is no more there. No trim flap can stop it.

Wow, you know next to nothing.

Radiation pressure

Radiation pressure is the mechanical pressure exerted upon any surface due to the exchange of momentum between the object and the electromagnetic field. This includes the momentum of light or electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength that is absorbed, reflected, or otherwise emitted (e.g. black-body radiation) by matter on any scale (from macroscopic objects to dust particles to gas molecules).[1][2][3] The associated force is called the radiation pressure force, or sometimes just the force of light.



The forces generated by radiation pressure are generally too small to be noticed under everyday circumstances; however, they are important in some physical processes and technologies. This particularly includes objects in outer space, where it is usually the main force acting on objects besides gravity, and where the net effect of a tiny force may have a large cumulative effect over long periods of time. For example, had the effects of the Sun's radiation pressure on the spacecraft of the Viking program been ignored, the spacecraft would have missed Mars' orbit by about 15,000 km (9,300 mi).[4]

I tested your ideas about light moving things. I switched on the light in front of a mirror and ... the mirror didn't move. Same thing when the Sun rises outside my window every morning. Plenty light arrives at the speed of light but nothing moves.

Ain’t my ideas, it’s called physics.

And yes, your reasoning above is exactly the depth of knowledge, research, and testing we all expect from you. Probably the same effort and depth you put into your failed “engineering” back in the day.

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

We knew you’d get nothing out of science.

In the meantime, back up your claim. Show us why you have such an opinion. Just saying so isnt enough and is summarily dismissed.

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 11:09:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Show us why you have such an opinion.

Easy!
Planet Earth is moving in one direction at a certain spreed in 3D space and the Lagrange point L2 is also moving in same direction at another speed in 3D space. Both orbit the Sun at different distances. The distance between Earth and L2  is therefore fixed all the time.
It seems you just have to fly straight away from Planet Earth with the Sun behind you to reach L2, but then you are slowed down all the time due to Sun and Earth gravity forces, while always orbiting Earth.

Speed relative the Sun must be zero at arrival L2 in your orbit around Earth, but then you drop back to Earth again due to gravity. You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 11:16:43 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 11:09:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Show us why you have such an opinion.

Easy!
Planet Earth is moving in one direction at a certain spreed in 3D space and the Lagrange point L2 is also moving in same direction at another speed in 3D space. Both orbit the Sun at different distances. The distance between Earth and L2  is therefore fixed all the time.
It seems you just have to fly straight away from Planet Earth with the Sun behind you to reach L2, but then you are slowed down all the time due to Sun and Earth gravity forces, while always orbiting Earth.

Speed relative the Sun must be zero at arrival L2 in your orbit around Earth, but then you drop back to Earth again due to gravity. You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

“It can’t be done because I say so.”

Yawn.

You’re not very good at this.

You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

I'd love to see the math you used to come to this conclusion.

I'm sure you wouldn't call the millions of people who understand orbital mechanics an idiot without some serious work. 

You certainly wouldn't just spout nonsense with no actual understanding.

Oh wait. Neverminded. 

Quote from: Heiwa on January 31, 2022, 02:29:39 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 11:16:43 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 11:09:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Show us why you have such an opinion.

Easy!
Planet Earth is moving in one direction at a certain spreed in 3D space and the Lagrange point L2 is also moving in same direction at another speed in 3D space. Both orbit the Sun at different distances. The distance between Earth and L2  is therefore fixed all the time.
It seems you just have to fly straight away from Planet Earth with the Sun behind you to reach L2, but then you are slowed down all the time due to Sun and Earth gravity forces, while always orbiting Earth.

Speed relative the Sun must be zero at arrival L2 in your orbit around Earth, but then you drop back to Earth again due to gravity. You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

“It can’t be done because I say so.”

Yawn.

You’re not very good at this.

More precisely, it can't be done because he doesn't understand it and refuses to learn.

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2022, 11:29:32 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 31, 2022, 02:29:39 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 11:16:43 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 11:09:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Show us why you have such an opinion.

Easy!
Planet Earth is moving in one direction at a certain spreed in 3D space and the Lagrange point L2 is also moving in same direction at another speed in 3D space. Both orbit the Sun at different distances. The distance between Earth and L2  is therefore fixed all the time.
It seems you just have to fly straight away from Planet Earth with the Sun behind you to reach L2, but then you are slowed down all the time due to Sun and Earth gravity forces, while always orbiting Earth.

Speed relative the Sun must be zero at arrival L2 in your orbit around Earth, but then you drop back to Earth again due to gravity. You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

“It can’t be done because I say so.”

Yawn.

You’re not very good at this.

More precisely, it can't be done because he doesn't understand it and refuses to learn.

Plenty people say they can fly to the Moon that we see in the sky moving about at high speed. The Moon orbits Earth that orbits the Sun. It takes only five days one way, but nobody can say how it is done. Same with the invisible L2 point in space. Plenty people have sent spacecrafts to L2 but cannot really explain how it is done.

Quote from: frenat on January 31, 2022, 01:37:40 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2022, 11:29:32 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 31, 2022, 02:29:39 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 11:16:43 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 11:09:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Show us why you have such an opinion.

Easy!
Planet Earth is moving in one direction at a certain spreed in 3D space and the Lagrange point L2 is also moving in same direction at another speed in 3D space. Both orbit the Sun at different distances. The distance between Earth and L2  is therefore fixed all the time.
It seems you just have to fly straight away from Planet Earth with the Sun behind you to reach L2, but then you are slowed down all the time due to Sun and Earth gravity forces, while always orbiting Earth.

Speed relative the Sun must be zero at arrival L2 in your orbit around Earth, but then you drop back to Earth again due to gravity. You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

“It can’t be done because I say so.”

Yawn.

You’re not very good at this.

More precisely, it can't be done because he doesn't understand it and refuses to learn.

Plenty people say they can fly to the Moon that we see in the sky moving about at high speed. The Moon orbits Earth that orbits the Sun. It takes only five days one way, but nobody can say how it is done. Same with the invisible L2 point in space. Plenty people have sent spacecrafts to L2 but cannot really explain how it is done.

Plenty people understand it. YOU are not one of those. Plenty people have tried to explain it to you but YOU refuse to try to understand. Plenty people laugh at you because all you have is argument from incredulity. Plus, I wasn't talking to you.

Quote from: frenat on January 31, 2022, 01:37:40 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 31, 2022, 11:29:32 AM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 31, 2022, 02:29:39 AM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 11:16:43 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on January 30, 2022, 11:09:50 PM

Quote from: Stash on January 30, 2022, 10:30:49 PM

Quote from: Curiouser and Curiouser on January 30, 2022, 09:56:16 PM

A simple explanation with some force diagrams.

Awesome video! What a great explainer of some mind-blowing, super complex engineering.

Complete rubbish. The L2 point is moving all the time at high speed and can never be reached however you try to aim for it.

Show us why you have such an opinion.

Easy!
Planet Earth is moving in one direction at a certain spreed in 3D space and the Lagrange point L2 is also moving in same direction at another speed in 3D space. Both orbit the Sun at different distances. The distance between Earth and L2  is therefore fixed all the time.
It seems you just have to fly straight away from Planet Earth with the Sun behind you to reach L2, but then you are slowed down all the time due to Sun and Earth gravity forces, while always orbiting Earth.

Speed relative the Sun must be zero at arrival L2 in your orbit around Earth, but then you drop back to Earth again due to gravity. You cannot stop and orbit around L2. Only complete idiots believe so.

“It can’t be done because I say so.”

Yawn.

You’re not very good at this.

More precisely, it can't be done because he doesn't understand it and refuses to learn.

Plenty people say they can fly to the Moon that we see in the sky moving about at high speed. The Moon orbits Earth that orbits the Sun. It takes only five days one way, but nobody can say how it is done. Same with the invisible L2 point in space. Plenty people have sent spacecrafts to L2 but cannot really explain how it is done.

Oh? So you agree now that plenty people HAVE sent spacecrafts to L2. Glad to see you’ve conceded that point. Since you still claim that nobody knows how this works, you’ll have to present evidence of how many people you’ve interviewed. Are you close to the requisite 7.9 billion?