Poetry

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Poetry
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2007, 06:28:22 PM »
Quote from: "Jie"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "Jie"

Dude, I'm starting to feel sorry I defended you...  what kind of crap is that?


I don't need your help. You can attack me if you want.

Hara Taiki... if you're reading this, I think I owe you an apology.


I think you owe your parents an apology.
ah.

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Jie

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Poetry
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2007, 06:32:25 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

I think you owe your parents an apology.

Why are you trying to pick fights?
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow, a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it's called the present" -- Master Oogway, from Kung Fu Panda

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cmdshft

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Poetry
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2007, 06:32:48 PM »
That's what trolls do.

Poetry
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2007, 06:33:42 PM »
Quote from: "Jie"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

I think you owe your parents an apology.

Why are you trying to pick fights?


I dunno, why are you? You're the one thinking I am idiot because I am not impressed by a hacky sack skill. I am doubly unimpressed with being published. I've seen some real crap that's gotten published.

Also, what I know about English is FAR above what a person should know at my age; because my mind never lets me sleep without writing poetry, or thinking poetry, or reading poetry, or seeing poetry, or finding something new.

Also, by myself I've raised about 10,000 dollars for scholarships, FOR OTHER PEOPLE; I used to do community service all the time, like going to schools and reading to children, and stuff like that, helping out with the special Olympics, etc. I didn't feel it's necessary to base my worth on what I do, but rather what I know.
ah.

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Jie

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Poetry
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2007, 06:35:50 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "Jie"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

I think you owe your parents an apology.

Why are you trying to pick fights?


I dunno, why are you? You're the one thinking I am idiot because I am not impressed by a hacky sack skill. I am doubly unimpressed with being published. I've seen some real crap that's gotten published.

Also, what I know about English is FAR above what a person should know at my age; because my mind never lets me sleep without writing poetry, or thinking poetry, or reading poetry, or seeing poetry, or finding something new.

WTF? I think you're confusing me with someone else.  :?
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow, a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it's called the present" -- Master Oogway, from Kung Fu Panda

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cmdshft

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Poetry
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2007, 06:36:21 PM »
You act like poetry is the "be all, end all".

Get over yourself, boy. There's more to life than a stupid internet fight over poetry.

Poetry
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2007, 06:38:01 PM »
Quote from: "Hara Taiki"
You act like poetry is the "be all, end all".

Get over yourself, boy. There's more to life than a stupid internet fight over poetry.


Aren't you the one fighting with me?...You are certainly big on doing this whole hypocrisy thing. When do you plan on stopping?
ah.

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cmdshft

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Poetry
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2007, 06:41:36 PM »
I'm not fighting with anyone. Your the one who wants to make it all about you.

Learn to grow up a little bit, and maybe you wont get flamed so much, ok?

Poetry
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2007, 06:42:48 PM »
Quote from: "Hara Taiki"
I'm not fighting with anyone. Your the one who wants to make it all about you.

Learn to grow up a little bit, and maybe you wont get flamed so much, ok?


You started flaming me from the beginning. Maybe you forget what you said? "Your[sic]" ridiculous, man.

Reply and you are continuing this fight, and proving you are what you said I am. Go on, I dare you.
ah.

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cmdshft

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Poetry
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2007, 06:44:23 PM »
You took what was really a joke to be a flame, thus reinforcing the notion that you're simply trying to be the center of attention and make everything about you.

That's not my problem.

I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it.

Poetry
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2007, 06:46:01 PM »
Quote from: "Hara Taiki"
You took what was really a joke to be a flame, thus reinforcing the notion that you're simply trying to be the center of attention and make everything about you.

That's not my problem.

I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it.


You took my response as I was taking it seriously. There is no hint in there that I even got mildly upset. I didn't use an exclamation mark, a question mark, no sarcasm. Just apathetic statements. That was your own failing, and proves you're an introverted twit. Why are you projecting your own insecurities onto me? I think it's pretty childish, grow up please.

The last part of your statement pretty much proves you ran out of steam.
ah.

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cmdshft

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Poetry
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2007, 06:47:49 PM »
Right.

Again, I told you it was a joke in like, what, the third post? You're the one who continued to take it as a serious flame, and that's not my problem.

So just shut the fuck up, and deal with it already.

I'm right.

You're wrong.

Take it home.

Chew it.

Now, move on (again) with your poetry thread.

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beast

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Poetry
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2007, 06:49:32 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


About his work being too simple:

Read something like W.H. Auden's "Musee De Beaux Arts," and you can easily tell a big gap in talent.


I'm familiar with the work, I don't understand what being more complex has to do with talent.  The aim of poetry is not to be complicated, it is to express something through words.

John Steinbeck is not only one of my favourite authors, he's one of the highest regarded novelists around.  Part of the reason his work is so powerful is because it is simple.  Simplicity has nothing to do with talent.

Edit: I'm 22, from Australia, speak English fluently.


All right, that explains why you keep putting the letter s where there should be a z, as in: "organising[sic]."

Anyways, I love John Steinbeck, and he's hardly simple. He's a simple read, but if you knew anything about his legendary novel "Grapes of Wrath," there is a ton of allusions, allegories, and symbols in it.

A person can get the jist of the injustice, but there is so much more to his writing than one, or even five readings could give.

It's like reading Shakespeare for face value, it's just NOT possible to appreciate him for face value.

I mean crap, it's like reading Hamlet without realizing he's following Sophocles's formula for the tragic hero. There is just so much to writing, the scansion, metonymy, voiced bilabial plosives, sibilance, elisions, hiatus, allusions, allegories, microcosms, enjambments, juxtaposition, consonance, assonance, metaphors, anceps, nuance, etc.

Writing is simply amazing to me, and I cannot say that this poet is really that remarkable. The "we are equal in death" poem has been done a thousand times. The angle he went was pretty hackneyed as well; war poems are almost always the same. Either it glorifies it, or it shuns it. He didn't do anything amazing to me. It's still a great poem, but it's nothing that stirred up my stomach into a fist.

When I feel hot and cold in my forehead, and my lip gets numb from anticipation of the next word, that's how I know poetry.

Or as Emily Dickinson puts it:

"If I read a book and it makes my whole body so cold no fire can ever warm me, I know that is poetry. If I feel physically as if the top of my head were taken off, I know that is poetry. These are the only ways I know it. Is there any other way?"

I feel the same way in a sense when presented with true poetry. Robert Frost's "Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening," or, "Fire and Ice," "Birches," etc.

They all make me feel ill, yet pleasantly surprised with his brilliance. This person stirs no emotions in me, and I am quite aware of his lack of structure. Free form is too simple to me.

--

Apropos, a hard read is something like: "A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess.

The tools, the allusions, the amazing way he structured it, and created his own language and used it eloquently simply blows my mind. It's still one of my favorite novellas.


That is a far better post than any of your others, because you actually gave examples of what you're talking about and had some substance to what you were saying.  It is a shame about your follow up post.

It seems we are talking about different definitions of simple.  I call Steinbeck's work simple because of the language he uses, and the way he presents it.  Yes there is a lot of depth to his work, but, as you say, he presents things simply.  On the other hand, much of the complicated, pretentious rubbish that is published these days has nothing beyond the surface.  I do not think that calling a piece of work "simple" infers that it is shallow or deep.  I think there is certainly an amount of depth to the work of Slessor, that's why he's studied in schools and published in poetry anthologies.  In fact the book that I took that Slessor poem from, also includes Birches and Stopping By Woods on A Snowy Evening in  it.  Clearly John McKenzie (the editor of the anthology, and an english professor) thinks Slessor is comparable with Frost.

?

GeoGuy

Poetry
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2007, 06:53:17 PM »
This gets my vote for most hilarious thread ever.

This quote especially made me giggle:

"I don't feel like going through my list of accomplishments, it seems stupid to glorify myself. I'll let you think I am your lesser."

Poetry
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2007, 06:54:29 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


About his work being too simple:

Read something like W.H. Auden's "Musee De Beaux Arts," and you can easily tell a big gap in talent.


I'm familiar with the work, I don't understand what being more complex has to do with talent.  The aim of poetry is not to be complicated, it is to express something through words.

John Steinbeck is not only one of my favourite authors, he's one of the highest regarded novelists around.  Part of the reason his work is so powerful is because it is simple.  Simplicity has nothing to do with talent.

Edit: I'm 22, from Australia, speak English fluently.


All right, that explains why you keep putting the letter s where there should be a z, as in: "organising[sic]."

Anyways, I love John Steinbeck, and he's hardly simple. He's a simple read, but if you knew anything about his legendary novel "Grapes of Wrath," there is a ton of allusions, allegories, and symbols in it.

A person can get the jist of the injustice, but there is so much more to his writing than one, or even five readings could give.

It's like reading Shakespeare for face value, it's just NOT possible to appreciate him for face value.

I mean crap, it's like reading Hamlet without realizing he's following Sophocles's formula for the tragic hero. There is just so much to writing, the scansion, metonymy, voiced bilabial plosives, sibilance, elisions, hiatus, allusions, allegories, microcosms, enjambments, juxtaposition, consonance, assonance, metaphors, anceps, nuance, etc.

Writing is simply amazing to me, and I cannot say that this poet is really that remarkable. The "we are equal in death" poem has been done a thousand times. The angle he went was pretty hackneyed as well; war poems are almost always the same. Either it glorifies it, or it shuns it. He didn't do anything amazing to me. It's still a great poem, but it's nothing that stirred up my stomach into a fist.

When I feel hot and cold in my forehead, and my lip gets numb from anticipation of the next word, that's how I know poetry.

Or as Emily Dickinson puts it:

"If I read a book and it makes my whole body so cold no fire can ever warm me, I know that is poetry. If I feel physically as if the top of my head were taken off, I know that is poetry. These are the only ways I know it. Is there any other way?"

I feel the same way in a sense when presented with true poetry. Robert Frost's "Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening," or, "Fire and Ice," "Birches," etc.

They all make me feel ill, yet pleasantly surprised with his brilliance. This person stirs no emotions in me, and I am quite aware of his lack of structure. Free form is too simple to me.

--

Apropos, a hard read is something like: "A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess.

The tools, the allusions, the amazing way he structured it, and created his own language and used it eloquently simply blows my mind. It's still one of my favorite novellas.


That is a far better post than any of your others, because you actually gave examples of what you're talking about and had some substance to what you were saying.  It is a shame about your follow up post.

It seems we are talking about different definitions of simple.  I call Steinbeck's work simple because of the language he uses, and the way he presents it.  Yes there is a lot of depth to his work, but, as you say, he presents things simply.  On the other hand, much of the complicated, pretentious rubbish that is published these days has nothing beyond the surface.  I do not think that calling a piece of work "simple" infers that it is shallow or deep.  I think there is certainly an amount of depth to the work of Slessor, that's why he's studied in schools and published in poetry anthologies.  In fact the book that I took that Slessor poem from, also includes Birches and Stopping By Woods on A Snowy Evening in  it.  Clearly John McKenzie (the editor of the anthology, and an English professor) thinks Slessor is comparable with Frost.


I am not sure if a poem is in the same book with another truly makes them comparable in terms of skill. "Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening" is arguably one of the best poems in the English language.

The poem that you had shown me was good in terms of imagery. The message has been done before, and his attack angle had been done before as well.

How many people have used iambic tetrameter quatrains, with sibilance weaving in and out, using metonymy, complex metaphors, personification, all the while making it seem like something as simple as a person stopping to enjoy the weather on the Winter Solstice.

Even though the true message is a person contemplating suicide, and chaos, whether which is better, using his horse as an allegory for his superego to usher him on to move, the road being his life, and the way to go before his death.

More of course is said, but I summed it up, and I probably left out a few meaty details.

Such as Birches, it's beautiful, it alludes to one of the most important things you can find in art: axis mundi.

The Birch is rooted to the earth, he wishes to climb to the heavens, the tree is the pathway to the divine. While it's rooted to the earth, it aims to the heavens. It's so eloquent it could make me cry. It's a beautiful piece, I can almost hear his pen scratching away at the paper as these beautiful thoughts dripped from his abstract head.
ah.

Poetry
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2007, 06:58:19 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
This gets my vote for most hilarious thread ever.

This quote especially made me giggle:

"I don't feel like going through my list of accomplishments, it seems stupid to glorify myself. I'll let you think I am your lesser."


Seems kinda dumb to sit around babbling about a big fish tale, doesn't it?
ah.

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beast

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Poetry
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2007, 07:00:33 PM »
Yeah I think I commented that this is my new favourite topic when I first posted in it, 2 pages ago :P

I just wanted to add that I didn't find Clockwork Orange a hard read at all, although I'm going to read it again sometime soon.  I find Ulysses a hard read, not that I've read it yet, it's too intimidating.  Part of that is perhaps it's reputation, and a friend of mine, doing his ph.d on English lit at the moment, did his honours thesis on it, and constantly talks it up far too much.  The God Of Small Things was a very hard read as well, and other people told me the same thing too, although I never understood why, as it seems to be written so well.

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Jie

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Poetry
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2007, 07:02:39 PM »
My fingers are numb from hitting the refresh button! :D
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow, a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it's called the present" -- Master Oogway, from Kung Fu Panda

Poetry
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2007, 07:03:06 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Yeah I think I commented that this is my new favourite topic when I first posted in it, 2 pages ago :P

I just wanted to add that I didn't find Clockwork Orange a hard read at all, although I'm going to read it again sometime soon.  I find Ulysses a hard read, not that I've read it yet, it's too intimidating.  Part of that is perhaps it's reputation, and a friend of mine, doing his ph.d on English lit at the moment, did his honours thesis on it, and constantly talks it up far too much.  The God Of Small Things was a very hard read as well, and other people told me the same thing too, although I never understood why, as it seems to be written so well.


A Clockwork Orange isn't a hard read in terms of reading it, I meant grasping it. You familiar with the seven principles of man?

I think the hardest thing I read is a book I am reading right now, it's only because it's almost exclusively sonnet jargon. I haven't really read anything in my life that really challenged me. I love Shakespeare but I can rush through his plays and grasp them fairly well, if I take closer reads I pick up on the tidbits.
ah.

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beast

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Poetry
« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2007, 07:03:49 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's a beautiful piece, I can almost hear his pen scratching away at the paper as these beautiful thoughts dripped from his abstract head.


Dude that's the most pretentious thing that has ever been written on this forum, and there have been some pretty pretentious comments in the past.

Poetry
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2007, 07:05:41 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's a beautiful piece, I can almost hear his pen scratching away at the paper as these beautiful thoughts dripped from his abstract head.


Dude that's the most pretentious thing that has ever been written on this forum, and there have been some pretty pretentious comments in the past.


It's pretentious to feel exhilaration when reading it and picturing the poet in some way? Thanks for letting me know!
ah.

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beast

  • 2997
Poetry
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2007, 07:06:22 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


A Clockwork Orange isn't a hard read in terms of reading it, I meant grasping it.


Why don't you say what you mean?  Isn't that what writing is all about - expressing yourself?

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beast

  • 2997
Poetry
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2007, 07:07:02 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

It's pretentious to feel exhilaration when reading it and picturing the poet in some way? Thanks for letting me know!


I'm not talking about how you felt, I'm talking about what you wrote.

Poetry
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2007, 07:07:28 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


A Clockwork Orange isn't a hard read in terms of reading it, I meant grasping it.


Why don't you say what you mean?  Isn't that what writing is all about - expressing yourself?


Yes, one thing though. Why are you using an en dash?

That was my fault, I'll try to be more precise now.
ah.

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beast

  • 2997
Poetry
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2007, 07:09:09 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


Yes, one thing though. Why are you using an en dash?



You really are a wanker.  I bet you were bullied at school.

Poetry
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2007, 07:10:33 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

It's pretentious to feel exhilaration when reading it and picturing the poet in some way? Thanks for letting me know!


I'm not talking about how you felt, I'm talking about what you wrote.


:\ What, does my fustian diction vis--vis prosody imbrangle you, troglodyte?
ah.

Poetry
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2007, 07:11:25 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


Yes, one thing though. Why are you using an en dash?



You really are a wanker.  I bet you were bullied at school.


No actually, I was bigger than the other kids. I'm a pacifist though. I just like to nit-pick you for fun. Of course I am probably making some mistakes, but no glaring ones, yet.
ah.

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beast

  • 2997
Poetry
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2007, 07:15:37 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

It's pretentious to feel exhilaration when reading it and picturing the poet in some way? Thanks for letting me know!


I'm not talking about how you felt, I'm talking about what you wrote.


:\ What, does my fustian diction vis--vis prosody imbrangle you, troglodyte?


Perhaps "ostentatious" would have been a more refined word than "pretentious".

Poetry
« Reply #88 on: February 01, 2007, 07:17:23 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"

It's pretentious to feel exhilaration when reading it and picturing the poet in some way? Thanks for letting me know!


I'm not talking about how you felt, I'm talking about what you wrote.


:\ What, does my fustian diction vis--vis prosody imbrangle you, troglodyte?


Perhaps "ostentatious" would have been a more refined word than "pretentious".


Don't mean to burst your bubble, but how I usually speak is very close to that. I have a very large vocabulary. It's not too difficult to addle someone; albeit, I invariably do it inadvertently, it seems.
ah.

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GeoGuy

Poetry
« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2007, 07:21:05 PM »
:D


 This thread keeps getting better and better.