Poll

Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"

Yes
14 (73.7%)
No
4 (21.1%)
Other
1 (5.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: February 01, 2007, 03:23:42 AM

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"

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beast

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« on: February 01, 2007, 03:23:42 AM »
Tough question, because I feel like they should have the right to say that, but at the same time, is obviously not true, as Jesus is dead.  I'm sure there are other opinions out there though.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/01/wosama101.xml
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midgard

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 03:33:26 AM »
I think that's it's okay for the Church to say that, I think it's good to see Christians actually teaching things that Christ taught instead of what's popular (like most churches) or what's in the church's best interest (like catholicism).

More importantly, even if you take Christ out of the picture I think they should be allowed to express their views on the matter. The fact that they do it in a controversial manner just incites debate and discussion. If you did in a way that didn't offend anybody you're not really gonna spark people's interests.
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beast

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 03:43:25 AM »
Is it very Christian to try and offend people?

I think it's good because I think people need to realise that Osama is a passionate and intelligent person - who has the faith in God that all religious people have.  There is nothing crazy or evil about hit, just a delusion of what a fictitious person thinks is right.
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midgard

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 03:51:33 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
Is it very Christian to try and offend people?


Simple answer: yes.

It is Christian to say things that can be seen as offensive - not to be an antagonist but to bring up these foul emotions such as hatred and anger and have people deal with them and get past them.

I'm sure there's Christians that would disagree (especially as I'm an aethiest) but I'm using scripture to support my argument.

Jesus said he came to bring the sword and to tear houses apart. I think this is exactly what he's talking about.

Quote from: "KJV"
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
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Ezkerraldean

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 06:09:23 AM »
he's supposed to love everyone isnt he? therefore he loves osama bin laden too. whats the big deal?
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Masterchef

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 06:52:04 AM »
Jesus loves Osama Bin Laden.........physically.
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Ubuntu

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 07:33:08 AM »
Is Osama even still alive? If not, as Masterchief suggests, their love could be less metaphorical than we think.
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skeptical scientist

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 12:24:09 PM »
Personally I don't see the big deal. If they want to use religious metaphor to spread the goal of universal love, caring, and forgiveness, that's their business. If they want to do it by expressing love for a terrorist, then that is simply being clear: love everyone means love everyone, Osama included.
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 12:32:40 PM »
Better question: Given if someone is totally ignorant and they kill in the name of God (truly believing that to be the will of God), do they go to heaven?
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Ubuntu

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 12:54:32 PM »
Quote from: "skeptical scientist"
Personally I don't see the big deal. If they want to use religious metaphor to spread the goal of universal love, caring, and forgiveness, that's their business.


What religious metaphor? They seem to mean it quite literally.
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troubadour

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 12:55:42 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Better question: Given if someone is totally ignorant and they kill in the name of God (truly believing that to be the will of God), do they go to heaven?


How are they any less ignorant then the person that goes to church every sunday and really believes that jesus is coming back within their lifetime? Keep in mind with the same ferocity that Christians believe in their crap, certain muslims believe that this is what god wants. And in their minds it's rationalized because of it.

Religious faith is evil as it makes things like crashing planes into skyscrapers and blowing down buildings ok. Why? Because faith is the most important thing apparently. By teaching this kind of crap to people from a young and impressionable age it sticks in and infects them. It makes terrible and horrible things ok or at least understandable, as long as it was in the name of faith.

I'm surprised that after seeing what faith can rationalize in people's minds after 9/11, people got MORE religious in this country, instead of turning away from it.
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 12:58:16 PM »
Quote from: "troubadour"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Better question: Given if someone is totally ignorant and they kill in the name of God (truly believing that to be the will of God), do they go to heaven?


How are they any less ignorant then the person that goes to church every sunday and really believes that jesus is coming back within their lifetime?

Religious faith is evil as it makes things like crashing planes into skyscrapers and blowing down buildings ok. Why? Because faith is the most important thing apparently. By teaching this kind of crap to people from a young and impressionable age it sticks in and infects them. It makes terrible and horrible things ok or at least understandable, as long as it was in the name of faith.

I'm surprised that after seeing what faith can rationalize in people's minds after 9/11, people got MORE religious in this country, instead of turning away from it.


Faith isn't the most important thing. You should know what the most important thing really is.

If you haven't guessed it yet, here it is: immortality.
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Beeper

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 01:02:53 PM »
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

therefore, from a christian point of view, people who sacrifice themselves because of ignorence are going to hell
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2007, 01:04:06 PM »
Quote from: "Beeper"
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

therefore, from a christian point of view, people who sacrifice themselves because of ignorence are going to hell


Doesn't that really mean if they sacrifice themselves to anyone but the one true God are going to hell? :|

And that's Exodus. That's OT shit.
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Beeper

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2007, 01:07:58 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "Beeper"
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

therefore, from a christian point of view, people who sacrifice themselves because of ignorence are going to hell


Doesn't that really mean if they sacrifice themselves to anyone but the one true God are going to hell? :|

And that's Exodus. That's OT shit.

well yes it is shit, and your right. trouble is, anything in the bible can be perceived so many ways, its not really very relevent to today. which is also very debateable, but is one of the reasons i am not christian.
that, and the fact i dont believe in god
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2007, 01:12:36 PM »
Quote from: "Beeper"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "Beeper"
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

therefore, from a christian point of view, people who sacrifice themselves because of ignorence are going to hell


Doesn't that really mean if they sacrifice themselves to anyone but the one true God are going to hell? :|

And that's Exodus. That's OT shit.

well yes it is shit, and your right. trouble is, anything in the bible can be perceived so many ways, its not really very relevent to today. which is also very debateable, but is one of the reasons i am not christian.
that, and the fact i dont believe in god


It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.
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Knight

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2007, 02:13:03 PM »
Quote from: "The 'omniscient' author of Proverbs 6:16-19"
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes
a lying tongue
hands that shed innocent blood
a heart that devises wicked schemes
feet that are quick to rush into evil
a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.


Seems to me that Osama is stirring up dissension among brothers and, in the eyes of Christians, bearing false witness about the One True God.  What do you think?
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ooyakasha!
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Ubuntu

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2007, 02:30:31 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.


Read: http://richarddawkins.net/godDelusion
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Masterchef

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2007, 02:48:19 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.

I am 100% sure that the Christian God does not exist.

I know for fact that the Universe was created by an omnipotent bowl of Chocolate Pudding.
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2007, 02:50:35 PM »
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.


Read: http://richarddawkins.net/godDelusion


Richard Dawkins can suck on my taint. There is no way to conclusively prove anything of the divine, even something as absurd as the FSM and Russel's Teapot.
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Masterchef

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2007, 02:56:46 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Richard Dawkins can suck on my taint. There is no way to conclusively prove anything of the divine, even something as absurd as the FSM and Russel's Teapot.

There is a way to determine which is more likely.
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skeptical scientist

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2007, 02:59:35 PM »
Quote from: "Masterchief2219"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Richard Dawkins can suck on my taint. There is no way to conclusively prove anything of the divine, even something as absurd as the FSM and Russel's Teapot.

There is a way to determine which is more likely.

Ok Masterchief, which is more likely - the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russel's Teapot?
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-David
E pur si muove!
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beast

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2007, 03:00:13 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.


Read: http://richarddawkins.net/godDelusion


Richard Dawkins can suck on my taint. There is no way to conclusively prove anything of the divine, even something as absurd as the FSM and Russel's Teapot.


Rubbish.  Why do you need conclusive proof to make a decision?  Do you believe there is an invisible elephant standing behind you?  How sure are you that there is not?  How can you be unsure if "God" exists, when there is no evidence to support such existence, and countless contradicting claims as to the powers and name of God?
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Knight

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2007, 03:01:46 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.


This statement actually seems contradictory, in a way.  When you say that it's hard "to not believe in God," you're essentially saying that it's easier to believe in God than to not have a belief about God's existence.  However, it's clearly easiest to be agnostic towards the existence of God (which is not believing in God and not believing that God does not exist).

Anyway, I'm too lazy to formally point out your error in meaning, but I think your statement, if properly worded, should've said something like this:

"It's kind of hard to believe that God does not exist.  It's easier to be unsure."

However, that's a matter of debate in itself that I'll let you guys have.  I have other fish to fry.
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Masterchef

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2007, 03:06:47 PM »
Quote from: "skeptical scientist"
Ok Masterchief, which is more likely - the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russel's Teapot?

Neither. The Pudding God is the only true God.
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2007, 03:10:47 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Quote from: "Ubuntu"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
It's kind of hard to not believe in God. It's easier to be unsure.


Read: http://richarddawkins.net/godDelusion


Richard Dawkins can suck on my taint. There is no way to conclusively prove anything of the divine, even something as absurd as the FSM and Russel's Teapot.


Rubbish.  Why do you need conclusive proof to make a decision?  Do you believe there is an invisible elephant standing behind you?  How sure are you that there is not?  How can you be unsure if "God" exists, when there is no evidence to support such existence, and countless contradicting claims as to the powers and name of God?


This is an impossible argument to win. I know it seems really easy to believe "THERE IS NO GOD!"

I say, "I can't know."

Why? Because reality is subjective. I cannot tell you what God is, if he's beyond my conception I wouldn't be able to describe him. There is evidence for his existence, there is evidence for his lack of existence if you look at it from different angles.

It's a stupid argument. I'm agnostic for this reason. I'd rather not take a side, it doesn't really matter. I know the problems with religion, but a divine being is another thing.
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2007, 03:11:49 PM »
Quote from: "Masterchief2219"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
Richard Dawkins can suck on my taint. There is no way to conclusively prove anything of the divine, even something as absurd as the FSM and Russel's Teapot.

There is a way to determine which is more likely.


How? Tell me how you can prove either, or disprove either.
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Masterchef

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2007, 03:19:28 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
How? Tell me how you can prove either, or disprove either.

I didn't say prove or disprove, I said it is possible to determine which is more likely.

Like for example, if Christianity were correct, and the bible really is the will of god, why does it contradict itself so much? If God loves everyone equally, why does the Bible promote the oppression of women? Why did the Old Testament promote the rape and murder of Non-Christian children?

If the Universe was created by a god, it is likely that it wasn't the Christian god.
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SPrinkZ

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2007, 03:44:45 PM »
Quote from: "Masterchief2219"
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"
How? Tell me how you can prove either, or disprove either.

I didn't say prove or disprove, I said it is possible to determine which is more likely.

Like for example, if Christianity were correct, and the bible really is the will of god, why does it contradict itself so much? If God loves everyone equally, why does the Bible promote the oppression of women? Why did the Old Testament promote the rape and murder of Non-Christian children?

If the Universe was created by a god, it is likely that it wasn't the Christian god.


The bible does and DOESN'T contradict itself.

It depends on the reader. It depends on the translation, the interpretation, etc.

There is a website dedicated to proving that there are NO contradictions in the bible. It deals with at least 200 so-called contradictions.
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beast

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Is it ok for churches to say "Jesus Loves Osama"
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2007, 03:54:25 PM »
Quote from: "SPrinkZ"


This is an impossible argument to win. I know it seems really easy to believe "THERE IS NO GOD!"

I say, "I can't know."

Why? Because reality is subjective. I cannot tell you what God is, if he's beyond my conception I wouldn't be able to describe him. There is evidence for his existence, there is evidence for his lack of existence if you look at it from different angles.

It's a stupid argument. I'm agnostic for this reason. I'd rather not take a side, it doesn't really matter. I know the problems with religion, but a divine being is another thing.


Why would you consider the possibility of something when there is no evidence to support that event being true?
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