Some reasons I believe FET (prev. "check my FET")

Just reading complete nonsense section and saw timeisup...oh shit hes gone now too...I wanted to actually debate some of these guys.

EDiT - not sure if timeisup left


How I think it might work roughly


So I will say that I think that the earth is very possibly flat - we have been duped by some one or thing - a recurring theme in my light but particualr research of alternative science/view points and potentially a greater truth. But also possibly that the level of science is at the level that some higher supernatural/beyond mormal range of comprehension beings have arranged for us at this time. And also possibly - likely part of the eq either way - our bad decisions have dumbed us up to this point.

A sketch outline of how this could be.

 It looks flat. Even when you check for the curvature.

8 inches pe mile squared. that is 8minches the first mile. 8 times 2 squared, 8 x 4 =32 inches that the mostly imperceptible curve drops away at the second mile mark. 8 times 3 squared for the third mile - that is  72 inches = 6 ft for 3 miles and so on. 10 miles the ground should drop away 800 inches - that is around a 6 story building - if their is no altitude / distance from sea level change.

(Some video evidence aroun reply# 110 page 4, also see thread in flat earth general titled those search engines for visual evidence with a video titled "Flat Earth 31.63 Miles...Undeniable Proof")

.We can't see the curvature and even refraction is said to make the curvature go away at ground level.

  I think in some situations it might look curved from high up in the sky and i think this could be (if not undescribed refraction at high levels than) an electro magnetic phenomenon as i have heard the electric potenttial difference increases a lot every foot you go up off the ground. One for believing this is the moon terminator illusion which i think reveals some spherical property of the sky... not sure about this.

 In my outside of the box researching of the science i find interesting and dont need a particle accelerator to imagine someday trying to reproduce, i have heard time and again of all types of crazy new discoveries anomalous phenomenon and some that even state plainly this is some new type of energy they have discovered.  So i think the sky is the limit. Science has simply offered us a system which works in our day to day way of life and it is not describing all phenomenon in the world that we ourselves can witness if we want to even.

The sun rise and set - I believe "personal skies" as I heard new earth put it, is likely a workable solution. Sun moon and stars drawing different types of arcs (edit - "Hemiispherical arcs"?) above the head of each individual observer. This could be a light bending phenomenon which has no close approximation to anything we experience in our day to day lifes on the ground and may not be intuitively understandable with our reference. So i just think it is easier to imagine a flat earth where there is some hemispherical apparent path of the heavenly bodies, circling aroun the pole, centered above each observer.
 
edit oct 21 -forgot to add it is my humble opinion that quite possibly their is a disk with the celestial bodies rotating above our heads, also sun and moon would circle above, I guess somewhat independently of the celestial disc but mostly I am trying to account for missing curvature at ground level, the horzon, and the celestial sphere.

As for domes and planets and mechanisms of it all - would think this has already been adressed in the books and i'm not trying to come up with a nodel for "astronomical phenomenon" which i think could be nothing like we are told as i think i have seen the evidence nasa being deceptive (though I acknowledge this may not be the case)....I am simply trying tp determine a simple possibilty for how the earth could be flat and yet we still we see what we see.

I dont see the reason to believe numbers (constants?) couldn't or haven't just been tweaked to fit the described laws to the visuals within an acceptable limit perhaps leading to false associations on one level while missing the bigger picture. Possibility I think could be we are missing constants and relationships which would show how it actually fits together but means something toatlly different....

I plan on adding more. If anyone wants to point out where i am obviously wrong, i want to hear it.

edit (oct. 15) - the horizon may be able to be explained by a mirage at that point depending on the angle to the observer, reflecting the sky. But their are probably lots of different phenomenon that happen at the horizon. My own experience going out at sunrize on a grey gold day - I was pretty sure I could see another higher up horizon with more distant area - howevre this needs to be qualified which I will try to do - recheck the spot and see how much I see regularily.

edit (oct 21) - As for mirage at the horizon if you watch videos of the horizon at sea you can see floating wave peaks pop into view above the apparent horizon. I have never actually had a telescopic view of the horizon at sea IRL. Here is a video which shows this so called "distortion layer" where I'd guess there many atmospheric phenomenon interacting:



this video also reveals what I understand to be the untold side of the story of boats going "behind the horizon".

edit nov 10 - my last post was number 184 - i think mostly globers posting frommaround 160 to 180. i will not be posting for a bit so it will all be globers after 184 (183?) till further notice, unless some other fe person comes around. Most of this is globers posting stuff anyway - 60 - 70%

There were some other major points i wanted to bring up but can't remember right now. But the fact remains - the curvature which is theorized has been suspiciously absent confirmed by most of my observations as well as many other people on the free speech internet.

Edit - Sorry folks, will have to possibly return to this a little later - I realize the above is light weight - I just thought I could outline a few things to give reason to keep looking into this because you will see their is something to it. I have had a lot of interesting and seemingly expandable ideas and maybe even inspirations come and go over the last several years.

 The believers are not here to hear the mainstream story so what are the naysayers doing? Not too mention, because of the naysayers on this site it is my impression that not many people come here and find what they are seeking enough to remain and come back and read a lot of this resulting in lack of flat earth info being posted... cant quite get this in perspective!

Edit oct 28 - sorry - forgot about the believers section which I havent spent enough time in - plenty of good info their.

Perhaps some one can demonstrate how the visual of a sun set or rise are like anyhting we normally experience on the ground.

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

i believe "personal skies" as i heard new earth put it, is likely a workable solution

Why? What in Earth are you on about?

in my light but particular research of alternative science

What's wrong with conventional science? It seems to be doing just fine to me. I like the fact that we are still searching for the answers to the big questions.  That's the attraction of science. I have never felt there is an need for any kind of 'alternative' science.

It looks flat. Even when you check for the curvature.

Of course it does at ground level.  What else would it look like? Earth is BIG remember compared to the size of a human being. It's a bit like comparing the size of a snooker ball with that of a microbe. I don't suppose a snooker ball looks curved to a bacteria.

There are those who have seen the curvature at very high altitudes but flat Earthers would prefer to think of those people as liars apparently. Why anyone would lie about something like that I have no idea.

It looks flat. Even when you check for the curvature.

You mean when you check for curvature when you wouldn't be able to see it.
If instead you check in a manner which would allow it to be seen, it can be seen.

Also i think in some situations it might look curved from high up in the sky and i think this could be (if not undescribed refraction at high levels than) an electro magnetic phenomenon as i have heard the electric potenttial difference increases a lot every foot you go up off the ground.

So instead of accepting the far more rationally explanation that Earth is round, and when very close to the surface you simply don't see enough to see a significant curve, and when up higher you can see more and the curve becomes more noticeable; you instead decide that Earth is flat, and magic makes it appear round from up high.

An electric potential doesn't' bend light.

As far as the sun rise and set - i believe "personal skies" as i heard new earth put it, is likely a workable solution.

Unless you have an explanation for why people have "personal skies" and why it works just like the RE, it isn't a workable solution.
Likewise, unless you can explain how people went to the moon and landed there, it isn't a workable solution.
It is yet another attempt to try to prop up a failed model.

Do you know what is a workable solution?
Earth being round.

i think i have seen the evidence nasa being deceptive (though i acknowledge this may not be the case)

Where?

I am simply trying tp determine a simple possibilty for how the earth could be flat and yet we still we see what we see.

And that is the issue.
Instead of looking at what we can see and trying to determine the shape of Earth from that, you instead want Earth to be flat and are looking for any excuse you can use to pretend it is.

Perhaps some one can demonstrate how the visual of a sun set or rise are like anyhting we normally experience on the ground.

Perhaps one of the simplest is watching something go over a hill. (however this is no where near a perfect replication)
Find a hill
Stand so your eye level is level with the top of the hill.
Have a friend (or enemy it doesn't really matter) hold a round ball above their head and walk over the hill towards you, and see how it appears to rise from behind the hill.
Then have them turn around and walk back down and see how it appears to set.

A better, but harder test, is to turn it on the side. Go find a nice large circular building, and have your friend hold up a light and walk around it keeping the distance to the building the same.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Explain alternative facts.

Quote from: Platonius21 on October 06, 2021, 09:24:32 AM

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Explain alternative facts.

I think it's just like "alternative science," in that it's an alternative to seeking out the truth.

Quote

i believe "personal skies" as i heard new earth put it, is likely a workable solution

Why? What in Earth are you on about?

Quote

in my light but particular research of alternative science

What's wrong with conventional science? It seems to be doing just fine to me. I like the fact that we are still searching for the answers to the big questions.  That's the attraction of science. I have never felt there is an need for any kind of 'alternative' science.

Quote

It looks flat. Even when you check for the curvature.

Of course it does at ground level.  What else would it look like? Earth is BIG remember compared to the size of a human being. It's a bit like comparing the size of a snooker ball with that of a microbe. I don't suppose a snooker ball looks curved to a bacteria.

There are those who have seen the curvature at very high altitudes but flat Earthers would prefer to think of those people as liars apparently. Why anyone would lie about something like that I have no idea.

Your first sentence doesnt really sound like you want to here waht i have to say....

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 05:12:07 PM

Quote from: Platonius21 on October 06, 2021, 09:24:32 AM

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Explain alternative facts.

I think it's just like "alternative science," in that it's an alternative to seeking out the truth.

I'm just looking at the negative and trying to remember what i was expecting...

Quote

i believe "personal skies" as i heard new earth put it, is likely a workable solution

Why? What in Earth are you on about?

Quote

in my light but particular research of alternative science

What's wrong with conventional science? It seems to be doing just fine to me. I like the fact that we are still searching for the answers to the big questions.  That's the attraction of science. I have never felt there is an need for any kind of 'alternative' science.

Quote

It looks flat. Even when you check for the curvature.

Of course it does at ground level.  What else would it look like? Earth is BIG remember compared to the size of a human being. It's a bit like comparing the size of a snooker ball with that of a microbe. I don't suppose a snooker ball looks curved to a bacteria.

There are those who have seen the curvature at very high altitudes but flat Earthers would prefer to think of those people as liars apparently. Why anyone would lie about something like that I have no idea.

What wrong with conventinal science is that their are a lot of people reporting things that science says can't be true, but if true could be very beneficial and freeing. The earth being flat could be difficult to hide and possible to see the truth of and then one could have an idea of a truth to compare things against.

You make a lot of vague comments about "things" that "might be" a "certain way" or "maybe not" and it's really hard to have a real conversation in that manner.

How many people are reporting one particular thing of interest to you that conventional science doesn't address, and what specifically is that thing? If you want to have a discussion, let's get specific so we can actually have that discussion.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Alternative science is a word used in the desrciption of different forum categories.

Sorry back in a bit.

Quote from: Platonius21 on October 06, 2021, 09:24:32 AM

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Explain alternative facts.

"Alternative facts" are not facts at all -- they are just something being presented by someone as facts, even thought they aren't.

Quote from: Platonius21 on October 06, 2021, 09:24:32 AM

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Alternative science is a word used in the desrciption of different forum categories.

Hmmm, sure sounds similar to "alternative facts" (non-facts). "Alternative Science" being non-science.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

It looks flat. Even when you check for the curvature.

You mean when you check for curvature when you wouldn't be able to see it.
If instead you check in a manner which would allow it to be seen, it can be seen.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

Also i think in some situations it might look curved from high up in the sky and i think this could be (if not undescribed refraction at high levels than) an electro magnetic phenomenon as i have heard the electric potenttial difference increases a lot every foot you go up off the ground.

So instead of accepting the far more rationally explanation that Earth is round, and when very close to the surface you simply don't see enough to see a significant curve, and when up higher you can see more and the curve becomes more noticeable; you instead decide that Earth is flat, and magic makes it appear round from up high.

An electric potential doesn't' bend light.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

As far as the sun rise and set - i believe "personal skies" as i heard new earth put it, is likely a workable solution.

Unless you have an explanation for why people have "personal skies" and why it works just like the RE, it isn't a workable solution.
Likewise, unless you can explain how people went to the moon and landed there, it isn't a workable solution.
It is yet another attempt to try to prop up a failed model.

Do you know what is a workable solution?
Earth being round.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

i think i have seen the evidence nasa being deceptive (though i acknowledge this may not be the case)

Where?

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

I am simply trying tp determine a simple possibilty for how the earth could be flat and yet we still we see what we see.

And that is the issue.
Instead of looking at what we can see and trying to determine the shape of Earth from that, you instead want Earth to be flat and are looking for any excuse you can use to pretend it is.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 07:00:11 AM

Perhaps some one can demonstrate how the visual of a sun set or rise are like anyhting we normally experience on the ground.

Perhaps one of the simplest is watching something go over a hill. (however this is no where near a perfect replication)
Find a hill
Stand so your eye level is level with the top of the hill.
Have a friend (or enemy it doesn't really matter) hold a round ball above their head and walk over the hill towards you, and see how it appears to rise from behind the hill.
Then have them turn around and walk back down and see how it appears to set.

A better, but harder test, is to turn it on the side. Go find a nice large circular building, and have your friend hold up a light and walk around it keeping the distance to the building the same.

First thing  - can i ever see earths curvature from the ground and how.

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 05:12:07 PM

Quote from: Platonius21 on October 06, 2021, 09:24:32 AM

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

in my light but particular research of alternative science

Your research of "alternative science" -- I've never heard of such a thing. Is it like "alternative facts"?

Explain alternative facts.

"Alternative facts" are not facts at all -- they are just something being presented by someone as facts, even thought they aren't.

When I saw the term I thought about data that doesn't fit the given model, some of which i think comes with very interesting story involving other things that have also been dismissed for unclear reasons.

You make a lot of vague comments about "things" that "might be" a "certain way" or "maybe not" and it's really hard to have a real conversation in that manner.

How many people are reporting one particular thing of interest to you that conventional science doesn't address, and what specifically is that thing? If you want to have a discussion, let's get specific so we can actually have that discussion.

I'll think about what you are saying and see what i can come up with. For me there is just so much anomalous...info? a lot of which i think fits into alternative theories that have been developed into working ... principles by people.

Mostly at this point i am putting forward that i think it is possible that the curvature phenomenon all happens above our heads. I am curious what are the obvious csientific reasons this can not be (considerring some of what i said).

First thing  - can i ever see earths curvature from the ground and how.

Yes, you can. You can go to the Bedford Canal and watch someone in a kayak paddle away over the horizon. If you cannot make it personally, then you could watch the video of such an event made by the UK Flat Earth Group.

Or, you could watch any boat travel over the horizon on any large body of water that may be convenient to you.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=89043.0



The people who made that video drew a conclusion (flat earth) that was exactly opposite to what their own video showed (earth curvature). It is easy to get around their flawed commentary, though, by using your own brain to analyze what they present.

Quote from: boydster on October 06, 2021, 05:48:23 PM

You make a lot of vague comments about "things" that "might be" a "certain way" or "maybe not" and it's really hard to have a real conversation in that manner.

How many people are reporting one particular thing of interest to you that conventional science doesn't address, and what specifically is that thing? If you want to have a discussion, let's get specific so we can actually have that discussion.

I'll think about what you are saying and see what i can come up with. For me there is just so much anomalous...info? a lot of which i think fits into alternative theories that have been developed into working ... principles by people.

Mostly at this point i am putting forward that i think it is possible that the curvature phenomenon all happens above our heads. I am curious what are the obvious csientific reasons this can not be (considerring some of what i said).

This is super vague. You say "so much anomalous...info" but don't say what exactly the information is that you find to be anomalous. "A lot" of it fits into "alternative theories" you say, but how much and which alternative theories? What "working ... principles" are you talking about, by which "people"?

Your closing, to me, sounds like "I'm curious why the world might give us every clue and indication that it is round, even though it isn't." It's possible I'm misreading it, or misinterpreting. But it would sure be helpful if you would say specifically what is on your mind, instead of making really vague allusions to...things?

Quote from: boydster on October 06, 2021, 05:48:23 PM

You make a lot of vague comments about "things" that "might be" a "certain way" or "maybe not" and it's really hard to have a real conversation in that manner.

How many people are reporting one particular thing of interest to you that conventional science doesn't address, and what specifically is that thing? If you want to have a discussion, let's get specific so we can actually have that discussion.

I'll think about what you are saying and see what i can come up with. For me there is just so much anomalous...info? a lot of which i think fits into alternative theories that have been developed into working ... principles by people.

Mostly at this point i am putting forward that i think it is possible that the curvature phenomenon all happens above our heads. I am curious what are the obvious csientific reasons this can not be (considerring some of what i said).

The point is you’re way too vague and obtuse for anyone to really engage because there’s nothing to engage with. I mean what is anyone supposed to do with, “ i think it is possible that the curvature phenomenon all happens above our heads”? What does that mean? What does above our head mean? You have to be specific. Concisely pick an issue, describe it and put a little effort in. We’ve talked about this before. Be specific and back it up!

Quote from: faded mike on October 06, 2021, 06:10:36 AM

i think i have seen the evidence nasa being deceptive (though i acknowledge this may not be the case)

Where?

These videos ask good questions about what NASA presents as fact. There are many, many things that just do not add up about the feasibility of the Apollo missions and about the photographic record of those missions.





Just because they lied about the Apollo missions (as shown in this documentary), it would be foolhardy to believe that they lie about everything. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwaater. "Round Earth" still needs to be considered on its own merits, and the photographic evidence for that seems sound.

Faded, I can't help but think this is a massive effort on your part to try and find a problem which simply doesn't exist.  You can see the curvature of the Earth at ground level in one particular situation and one situation only.  During a lunar eclipse.  That's it.

Just because they lied about the Apollo missions (as shown in this documentary), it would be foolhardy to believe that they lie about everything.

You might want to think about that a bit more. The space program is a very significant part of the RE proof. If it is admitted that NASA is faking things it's a very significant blow.

Lets assume for a moment you are the size of a microbe living on the surface of a marble. What would your FOV look like in all directions?

Explain alternative facts.

"alternative facts" are fictions used to replace facts because you don't like what the facts are and would prefer it to be those fictions, either because you directly prefer those fictions, or you can use those fictions to try to get something else that you want.

"alternative science" can follow the same kind of emotional response, where you discard real science and replace it with something else. On the minor end this would be simply starting with a conclusion you want to be true and trying to find excuses for why it could be true; and on the more extreme end, just blatantly lying about what the results of certain experiments are.

What wrong with conventinal science is that their are a lot of people reporting things that science says can't be true, but if true could be very beneficial and freeing.

See, this is an example.
People don't like reality, so they try providing a fiction which they prefer.

It would be great if we could have a machine magically produce energy from nothing such that everyone could have unlimited free power, but it simply can't happen.

Likewise, it would be great if diseases didn't exist, but they clearly do and are clearly quite damaging (at least some are).

If instead of trying to claim diseases aren't real, or claiming magic cures; people accepted that they were real and attempted to find real cures the world would be better off. Even if those people just didn't try to falsely claim the disease isn't real or try to sell their snake oil, the world would be better off as people would be more inclined to either seek treatment or protect others.

Likewise, it would be great if Earth was flat, such that there was only a single time zone. Gone would be the issues of trying to have a chat or meeting with someone in a different timezone, or even further having to change your sleep schedule to try to match a different timezone. It would also make it much easy to travel without issues caused by timezones.
But something being good doesn't mean it is true. The facts simply do not support it.

Something being beneficial and freeing if true doesn't make it true.
Science doesn't care if something discovered is good or bad, it cares if it is true.

First thing  - can i ever see earths curvature from the ground and how.

There are several options. Here are some examples.
1 - Watch the sun set, being obscured by Earth - Technically this could work for a FE, if the sun set for everyone, rather than always being above some point on Earth.
2 - Watch a large object set over the horizon.
3 - Go and find a tall mountain and measure the angle of dip to the horizon from various altitudes up the mountain.
4 - Find a series of objects in a straight line at the same elevation and observe how they appear to curve downwards.
5 - Requires travel and is less direct, observe the position of celestial objects and how they vary over time and location.

You might want to think about that a bit more. The space program is a very significant part of the RE proof. If it is admitted that NASA is faking things it's a very significant blow.

No, it isn't. Earth was known to be round, long before NASA.
And there are plenty of other organisations/countries/companies going to space.

These videos ask good questions about what NASA presents as fact. There are many, many things that just do not add up about the feasibility of the Apollo missions and about the photographic record of those missions.

Care to provide more effort than just linking 2, long conspiracy videos?
Such as providing an actual argument yourself, preferably backed up by evidence from NASA rather than from a conspiracy video?

One of the most damning things about these conspiracies is that it would have been easier to go to the moon than to fake it.
It also relies upon a massive contradiction of NASA so technologically advanced with loads of technology not accessible to the public, and so smart, yet allegedly massively screwing up quite simple things.

As JB says, probably the two most obvious clues to the Earths shape are watching the sun set over the sea and the night sky from different latitudes.

The setting sun has no reasonable explanation in FET.

If you live in the states you can travel north south quite easily, the pole star is easily spotted by using the plough (big dipper), take a look at its position in the north and again near the Mexican border, RET easily explains the difference, FETs explanation is a dogs dinner.

If it is admitted that NASA is faking things it's a very significant blow.

This is the typical sort of thing we get from conspiracy theorists who are only interested in trying promote their own minority views and distrust of anyone and everyone who is actually trying to further human knowledge. 

I know several people linked to NASA and they are just perfectly ordinary people who have an interest in science and technology.  They have no interest or need to hide anything or faking anything. Why would they?

I agree with what JB is saying.  Flat Earth believers, like all conspiracy thinkers seem to share that same need in life of being able to declare 'there you go.. I told you it was all true and we are all being fed lies and more lies...'. These people develop an obsession for distrust in their minds and that anyone in 'authority' is lying and deceiving.  The actual truth is we probably will never find out the real truth about whether there really are aliens in Area 51 or whatever.

But we do know what the true shape of the Earth is.  About that I have no doubt in my mind.  How about you JB?